Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

 I sought permission to hunt the land I've been traipsing about for the last
3 weeks (unsuccessfully, I might add).

 The first thing I did was ask if he knew who owned the property I was 
interested in hunting. (It was his.) I then asked if he minded if we hunted on
his land. He said no and spelled out conditions (don't open the gates, don't 
drive on the land, stay away from the house, don't shoot the cows. :-) I gave
him my assurances and thanked him profusely. I asked him if he had any tips.
It was a relatively cordial conversation (for New England). :-)

 I return every year to renew my permission before the season (so I can scout).
It's always a short conversation.

 You can't be afraid to ask (even though I sometimes am- I force myself to
be bold.) Sometimes you deal with crotchety old people. The worst they can
do is run you off the land. So what. They don't know where you live. :-)

 The Doctah

     At most DOW offices in CO, they have a Colorado Courtesy Card(s)
    for you to take. In it they have lines to fill in name, address,
    phone, drivers license no, and a pledge you sign. I think in many
    cases, handing them this has made the difference in getting a yes
    and making them feel comfortable. Stopping by after to tell them 
    thanks and maybe a CLEANED bird helps in future hunts. I've even
    had them offer to put me up for the night instead of driving back
    home through a snowstorm. Always be courteous whether its yes or
    no. Heck, uou might get to talkin' and the answer will change from
    no to yes.
    
    chuck

    
    Both Rick and I have had 2 opportunities to hunt land that would
    normally not be available to hunting. In both cases we went down and
    met the owner had a good conversation with them. Set up rules that
    "WE" agreed upon. When the season was over, our hunting party got
    together and had a big Holiday Basket (Friut,Wine,etc.) ordered and
    delivered it personally. You can not believe the reaction from the
    owners in receiving this really uncostly (donation from each member)
    gift. Another thing is your appearance and mannerism when approaching 
    or talking to the owner. You may also want to inquire if anyone else
    has permission and possibily help him/her police the trespassers on
    the property.
    
    
                                                        Guy
    
    
    

    Down here in Georgia this year, I had the opportunity to exercise that
    issue, in hunting new land.
    The guy that owns the land works at DEC.  I came up to him, asked if he
    or anyone else hunts his land.  I asked if it would be possible for me
    to hunt the land going by his rules.  I got the do's and don'ts.  I
    told him I would give him my NAHC card for reference while I hunt. I
    even told him that I would be more than happy to share my venison with
    him.  I even told him where I would hunt.
    
    He said, "Idon't care what you do, just don't shoot the house or the
    wife, well, just the house."  Also he wanted me to "Take" anything
    i wanted to while hunting, squirrel, raccoon, etc.  I said deer is all
    I am looking for.  
    
    I have been hunting a separate piece of property lately, and haven't
    been on his property for awhile.  He is actually asking me if I am
    pissed at him or something, because I haven't hunted his property in
    awhile.  All is well.  Except for the fact I still have an empty
    freezer. 
    
    In summary, I think you should play by their rules, share your game,
    and have solid communication about when and where you plan to hunt, and
    most important, show respect.
    
    bob
    

    
    Add to re.3
    
    We did also ask if he liked deer meat. When he said yes we told him
    "IF" we got one we would bring some for him. Also letting a land owner
    know what organizations (NRA,NAHC,GONH,GOAL,etc.) you belong to and or
    references from other landowners may help also. I'm getting a little
    tied of being put into the "Class" of going to "Deer Camp" where we
    all get drunk every night and go hunting the next day. Neither myself
    or anyone who hunts with us is like this.
    
                                                        Guy
    

     Boy does Guy's response hit home.  I hate it when people assume
    that the only reason I go deer hunting is to get drunk and play cards.
    The last two weeks hunting in NY I had exactly two beers and was in the
    rack by 9:00 every night.  Then the other questions you here are
    something along the line of "How many signs did you shoot?"
     Ignorent people
    
    Jeff

    When I was a single man last season, deer camp was a place to get that
    male bonding, and enjoy the hunt, and talk around the fire after a
    excellent meal cooked by Earl, and a FEW beers before turning in around
    10 pm.  I was always first one up to get coffee going before hunting.
    
    Now that I am married, deer camp is CHERISHED alot more.  It's nice to
    have a few beers with no one bitching at you for drinking.  You have
    freedom, and you got that male bonding which is more important to me
    now, since wifey poo is hanging lacey pastel drapes in the house, and
    the place smells like potpourri instead of black lab.  Poor dog, moved
    to the basement.
    
    But getting back to deer camp, there is nothing wrong with catchin a
    good buzz by the fire, AS LONG AS YOU DON'T PICK UP A RIFLE AND GO
    HUNTING AFTERWARDS!!!  Deer camp is a vacation, and I don't care what
    any anti thinks of it.
    
    bob
    

    re: last couple...  more ditto's... people have very little
    understanding of what true hunters actually do "at camp".  
    
    although I know a few camps and this must be where people get their 
    impressions from...  a shame for the rest of us.
    
    Fra

Re: Deer Camp,

 Don't know about the rest of you, but,,,,,

 Between the girls from the college across the river, the strippers from 
downtown, the constant traffic of the beer trucks always bringing in a fresh 
nightly supply and the loud music and card playing going 24 hours a day, I did 
manage to get *some* hunting in.  In between shooting up road signs and 
wasting anything around the camp that 4 legs and moved that is.....

 The worst part was we kept running out of asprins and condoms.. :-)



 Now for the real story..... Had a real quiet, nice and relaxing time with 
lots of friendly banter and kidding, lots of interesting hunting tales, GI 
"war" stories of days gone by and not a single hangover. Hell, you don't have 
time to get all screwed up what with how early you have to get up. :-) Good 
friends, good conversation, good food, just plain *good* everything. What a 
life!

 I get a charge out of these types like Howie Carr that think it's all just 
one big drunken bawdy house type week long party.

 I'd love to get that clown up in the woods of maine for a week!!  He ain't 
got no idea what the good life is like.

    
    re.7 And anyone else who might have taken offense. Jeff,Paul(Fra), or
    myself were not knocking having a beer or two, wine with your meal or
    afterwards. The issue is what people who are unknowageable have of us.
    Getting a good "Buzz" on may last right into the morning depending on
    what YOUR version is of that term. It also bothers me to see in this
    case Miller Brewing giving out target to zero your firearm with their
    logo across the top. So, does that type of scenerio help the people who
    ride the fence on this subect and vote on the banning of shooting and
    hunting rights.
    
                                                     Guy
    

    
    	I've asked permission to hunt and haven't been turned down.  Even
    have permission to park at the end of someone's driveway and walk 
    across their property to get to the mountain I bowhunt...  Like 
    someone else said, be courteous, but don't be afraid to ask..  They
    might want to know a little about you so don't be afraid to open up.
    From talking around at BTO though, I guess some people just plain
    don't want you hunting period.  Not much you can do there.
    
    	As for deer camp.... The way I figure it, I got 50 other weeks
    of the year to party hardy if I want, why ruin a potentially good
    hunt by getting all sloshed up.  Now when someone gets a deer, then
    that's cause for a small celebration.  But I gotta tell ya, even when
    I did get one at deer camp I wasn't all pumped for a good bender,
    just a mild relaxer.  To each his own, just don't let me catch you
    stumbling around the woods after you've been drinking or 'name your
    favorite other high', because you'll wish you were back at camp.
    That's a promise.
    
    - Rob

    
    re.11  Excellent addage !!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    
    

    As far as asking permission;  I get out way before the seasons start,
    and do alot of driving, asking and giving out courtesy cards.  I ask
    the owner for all of HIS rules.  I also give game to the owner, if 
    he/she likes that particular meat.
    
    One thing that I have found out, is that sending a thank you card, a
    Chirstmas card or something to let them know that you appreciate
    the opertunity to hunt their ground.
    
    I talked (in length) with one of the land owners where I hunt pheasant;
    And he explained to me what "they" as farmers and ranchers go through
    with "some" hunters.  The shot signs, cut fences, the TRASH" etc.
    The way he explained it was, "How would you feel if I pulled my camper
    into your yard, shot the hell out of everything, broke windows and
    left my trash?"  Essentially, what I'm saying is I respect his property
    as if it were mine.  I take care of it, watch for "strange" happenings
    when I'm there, let them know that I'm willing to help them out (work
    wise) time permitting.  I cherish my hunting privilage, and "good"
    places to hunt;  And I wouldn't want to loose it.
    
    
    Deer/Elk Camp...from what I read;  You guys know how I feel.  There is
    no other place to be,  now if I could only find where the animals
    are.
    
    
    Jeff..  

    I second the idea of starting early. Nothing make a rancher/farmer
    more cranky than having to answer the door at 5:00am opening season
    day. Get there before the season starts. Get permission and you'll be 
    able to scott. Also you'll give off some exposure. First impressions mean
    alot! DOW courtesy cards say alot. 
    
    I try to say hello and keep my converstations short unless the owner
    wants to strike one up. 
    
    Thinks that have worked for me in the past include:
    
    1) Sending a christmas card. You be surprised on this one. They'll
    remember you.
    
    2) Stop by in the spring/summer.  Let them know that come branding or
    harvest time You're willing to help out. Not only will you be able to
    hunt but you'll get alot of tips. ect.
    
    3) If you strike up a converstation, offer to take him out for coffee
    before or after hunting. This is great idea to get to know the locals.
    Find the local morning hang-out, buy a coffee and you'll be meeting
    the farmer/ranchers. 
    
    4) Share what you've shot. Clean it first.
    
    5) Last day of the season. Leave a note saying thanks!
    
    Peter Hiross

    The town that we hunt in Mass. this year adopted a written landowner
    permission law.  We talked to the person who owned the land and he
    expressed his concern that his neigbors have been pressuring him to
    post his land (since most of the surrounding towns are heavily posted).
    
    We went out and bought a turkey and then delivered it to him, we also
    offered to spend a weekend working on his farm to return the favor.  I
    think the bottom line is that you need to convince the landowners that
    not all hunters should not be stereotyped.
    
    Ray
    

    My husband and I live next door to someone who's father owns a huge
    farm in the area.  She found out that we hunted and said that she was
    sure that her father wouldn't mind if we hunted there.  Sure enough, he
    gave us permission to hunt.  We offer in exchange.... helping to
    harvest or plant crops, pick the orchards, tend the vegi stand and
    anything else he might possibly need (he's getting on in age and isn't
    in the best of health).  We play by his rules (which aren't many), we
    bring some of the butchered meat to his house for his family to enjoy. 
    The only thing he asks of us is that if we see anyone else on the
    property, to notify him immediately because no one else has permission
    to hunt there.  We assume the common curtousy of not driving in planted
    areas, parking off of the dirt road, not tearing the place up etc....
    
    He is a former Maryland State Police Officer and a former DNR agent. He
    gets tired of the deer eating all his crops and stuff, so he's happy
    that we're there, not only to trim the deer population, but to also
    keep an eye out for anyone that should not be there.
    
    Christine

   When we teach Hunter's Ed. here Dayton we give the following tips on
   asking permission from farmers.
   
   1) Do not wait for the season to start in the fall before asking
   permission.  What we city slickers fail to realize is that this is
   harvest.  Farmers are very busy at this time.
   
   2) Same goes for early spring.  A lot of farmers are prepping,
   planting, spraying, etc.
   
   3) Late spring/early summer is a good time to ask.
   
   4) Offer to do chores, help out, etc.
   
   5) Share your kill with the landowner.
   
   6) If the farmer has bean fields, don't ask him about hunting.  Go up
   and ask if it would be ok if you shoot the groundhogs (woodchucks)
   around his fields.  After ridding his fields of the vermin (a grown
   groundhog will eat approximately 10 bushels of beans per growning
   season) strike up a conversation with the farmer and bring up
   hunting this coming fall.
   
   [An aside.  One of our wildlife officers tried this technique last
   year.  When he asked the farmer, he started hemming and hawing, and
   the wildlife officer starting thinking that this was yet another
   farmer that was going to close his land regardless.  After a bit the
   farmer asked, "How much per groundhog are you going to charge me?"]
   
   7) Call 3-5 days before hunting to let the landowner know when you
   will be on his property.

    re: .18   Excellent
    
    Having been raised on a farm in Pennsylvania, I know for a fact that
    this type of conduct is practiced by a very few hunters.  If even half
    of our fellow hunters attempted to practice even half of these
    suggestions, there would be a lot more land open to hunting.
    
    My Dad will give to anyone who asks in a respectful way, permission to
    hunt on our land, but kicks all others off.  Hunting on non-public
    lands is not a "right", it is a "privilege".
    
    Roy...