Conference vicki::boats

    Johnson lover
    I would recommend the Johnson. My dad used them in the 50's and 60's.
    I've used them in the 70's and went astray for a while to Mercury and
    sold the boat and motor for a bigger boat with a Johnson. In 87 I
    repowered with a new Johnson. Johnsons start all the time. I fish
    offshore and when I turn the key I want that sucker to start. The
    Mercury was a dog. A guy at the marina where I keep my boat just
    repowered his boat. He took of 2-225hp Yamaha and replaced them with
    2-225 Johnsons. The Yamaha were just a few years old but he had very
    poor reliability. A friend of mind has an 88 Johnson 8 hp on his Al
    boat on a lake, he loves it. It starts with 1 or 2 pulls. He also has a
    20hp Mercury on his other Al boat. He agrees with my assesment of
    Mercurys. But the Johnon. The price is also good.
    Jim

    I sold my old boat with a 35 HP Merc on it.  I had lots of problems
    with the Merc... hard starting, etc. it never ran well during the
    10 years I owned it... I had had it tuned up endlessly. Also the
    starter seemed too weak to really crank the engine... it just
    slogged over until it sometimes started.  Last summer I bought a 10
    year old rebuilt Johnson 25. What a sweet running engine. Did not have
    a single problem with it last summer.. always started easily and does
    that starter CRANK it fast.   

    
    I agree with the last two.  My first boat, a 1986 Boston
    Whaler SS., came equipped with a 35 HP Mercury and
    endless problems!  It never idled correctly, was hard
    to start, and hard to troubleshoot.  I had the boat in
    the repair shop 4X's before anyone could figure out what
    the problem was.
    
    My second boat is a Baja with 115 Johnson.  The engine
    is five years old and performs like new.  It's an ugly
    looking  thing, compared to the sleek black/gold styling
    of the Mercury's, but good looks means nothing when it
    comes to engines!  :>)  Another Johnson fan!
    
             o            o             o
    -----------------------------------------------
                    o           o               o             Jeanne
    
    

It is my understanding that Johnson's = Evinrudes.

Is this true?  Both are OMC.

Reason for asking is that I found a place that will sell me an 8 horse 
Evinrude '89 for $790 + shipping w/no sales tax out of New York.

Seems like the thing to do assuming equivilency to the glowing remarks 
about Johnson's..

Carl

    Someone always has to disagree.
    
    In this hp range "buy american" is out the window. 
    
    They are not made here. I can't emphasize this enough.
    
    BUY THE YAMAHA, THE OTHERS ARN'T EVEN CLOSE.
    
    One other thing, if someone (anyone) says oh yeh, Yamaha
    makes them for us.   _____BUY THE YAMAHA.........
    
    Its worth the extra $100......
    
    
    Pay me now, or pay me later.......
    
    JIm.

    I bought a Suzuki from a Suzuki/Johnson dealer. He sold them and said
    tha Suzuki was more dependable, less money, lighter, and it had a THREE
    Year Warranty compared to a One Year on the Johnson.
    
    I have had it a year now and not one problem. Starts first pull even
    when cold.

    Yes Johnson=Evinrude for the most part. I'm not sure if there is an
    subtle differences other than the color and the name. Yes they are both
    built by OMC. 
    
    As to other brands I only know what I've experienced and what others
    have at the marina have told me. Look at the tenders on any of the
    larger boats, they're Boston Whalers powered by Johnsons. That should
    speak for itself.
    Jim

    	Wow, I'm amazed at all the Merc haters out there. I've owned several
    and never had problems. Of course that's neither here nor there in this
    discussion because Merc wasn't mentioned in the base note. 
        If it were my choice I'd go for the 90 Johnson (assuming its a
    leftover with full warranty etc.). The price differential was
    significant and I've always preferred Johnson/Evenrude for the smaller
    motors. (I still prefer Mercs for the big ones though.)
    	BTW - I also owned a Yamaha 8hp. It was easy starting and smooth
    running...just like every other outboard I owned... ;^).  
    Regards,
    Paul

re      <<< Note 798.3 by DONVAN::DECAROLIS "hit the ball-AS LOUD AS U CAN" >>>
>                            -< Make mine a Johnson >-
    

>             o            o             o
>    -----------------------------------------------
>                    o           o               o             Jeanne

	.....damned course looks like that to me too
    
		when I'm down-side-up  (-:

	Reg

    

    
    And did you notice the absense of entry gates, Reg?!
    
    I haven't mastered graphics on a VT320 yet!  Let me try
    again...           (or the course)
    
                           O  scramble  O           O
              o                                             o
    --------------------------------------------------------------- 
              o                                  CRASH!     o
                    O            O            O
                    1            3            5
    
                           
    
               How's that!  Jeanne     
    
    :>)
    
    

    You guys discuss small vs. big engines. What is the point (HP) at which
    you consider your dealing with a large HP engine?  Is 25 HP considered
    large or small in this context?
    
    

    CAT 3208  450 hp.
    
    JIm

Re. .6, sounds like this Suzuki/Johnson dealer wants to be a Suzuki dealer. I 
haven't paid a lot of attention to outboards, but Suzuki outboards seem like 
they are still new here, aren't they? If so how does he know it will be more
reliable than the Johnson? And, one more thing, the fact that you haven't had
a problem with Suzuki doesn't mean that you would have had one with a Johnson.

However the difference in warranties is a valid reason for choosing one vs the
other, I'll agree.

John - Suzuki motorcycle owener

    RE. -1  A slight nit..There are the 3208, 3208T, 3208TA, the TA is/was
     425 H.P. (the 91 version may indeed be tweeked to 450 as they continue 
    to try and squeeze power).

    Re .11>
    	This is all just my opinion but I always like the Evinrude/Johnson
    up to about 10 - 12hp. Another way of saying this is I don't like the
    Mercs below that size. My latent predjudice has to do with weight,
    simplicity etc.. A friend of mine has a Merc 12 hp and it weighs as
    much as my 25 hp (also Merc). 
    	When I was shopping for my 25 hp I went with the Merc because,
    among other things, it was lighter than the others and it had loop 
    charging which Johnson didn't in that size, so I guess I'd call 25 hp
    the cross over for me. Merc also has some relics still in production that
    bring back fond memories. I had an old 50 or 55 hp Merc with in line
    cylinders (I don't remember how many); it was the smoothest quietest
    OB I have ever run into and its still in production.
    	My brand loyalty is pretty thin overall though. I examine the specs of
    each engine and go by that. The only major brand I absolutely avoid is 
    Force. That may change too because now both Force and Merc are owned by
    Brunswick and they're designing more Merc parts into the Force engine.
    I'm afraid however that they still have a long ways to go to catch up 
    to the others.
    	As far as quality goes, you learn to hate the brand you have
    problems with. A friend has a fairly new Evinrude (70 hp) which he has
    had a lot of trouble with. You'll never convince him to buy another.
    I've owned Merc/Mariners, Evinrude, Chrysler and a Yamaha. My **OPINION** 
    based on my experience is Merc/Mariner is a good quality product,
    followed by Evinrude/Johnson, followed by Yamaha and last but definitely 
    least Chrysler/Force.
    	
    

    re: .11
    I don't think you can put a handle on what's large or small,
    it all depends on your point of view.  My 17' Sunbird cuddy
    is BIG when I'm in the Concord River, it's small when I'm
    in the ocean or Lake Winnie.
    
    If you insist, one way to differentiate between large and small
    outboards is physical size.  To me, anything I can carry easily
    and hang on a boat by myself is a small motor, anything heavier 
    is a big motor.  Depending on the brand and model, the cutoff is 
    usually somewhere between 25 and 40 hp.
    
    Rick

    I agree with the comment that you grow to hate what you have
    problems with.  And you especially remember the problems as you
    experience them when you want to be having fun.

    My own choice had more to do with who I could get service and parts
    from on my lake.  When my boat left the mooring during an early May
    snow storm, the dealer who sold me the boat felt motivated to put
    a boat in the water and retrieve it for me.  I strongly believe in
    buying from the dealer you might need support from.

    RE Merc hating, after I corrected a few adjustment problems on my 90, 
    it has run reliably ever since.  The population of Mercs and Johnsons
    on the lake are roughly equal and there seems to be no opinion about one or
    the other being bad.



     

Re: .8

>        Wow, I'm amazed at all the Merc haters out there. I've owned several
>    and never had problems. Of course that's neither here nor there in this
>    discussion because Merc wasn't mentioned in the base note. 

Actually because of all the negativism about Mercs I didn't even venture 
into any of the booths that had Mercs, didn't want to bother.  May be wrong 
but the emotions (negative one's) about Mercs roughly equal the positive 
one's about some of the others.

I am getting tempted to go for the Johnson.  I did learn that Yamaha 
exhausts through the prop, thereby providing a very quiet ride.  

That maybe a determining factor.  Is it really as quiet as they say?  Do 
any other brands offer this feature?

Carl

    Carl,
    	I believe they all exhaust through the prop so that's no advantage
    for the Yamaha.
    
    Paul

re     <<< Note 798.10 by DONVAN::DECAROLIS "hit the ball-AS LOUD AS U CAN" >>>

    
>    And did you notice the absense of entry gates, Reg?!

	....gates be damned, I just wanna stay up long enough to get 
around #1 and at least halfway toward #2 (-:, (-:

	Yeah, I know - this is the wrong note; BUT !


>                           O  scramble  O           O
>              o                                             o
>    --------------------------------------------------------------- 
>              o                                  CRASH!     o
>                    O            O            O
>                    1            3            5
    
                           
    
>               How's that!  Jeanne     
    
>    :>)



	In management'ese    

	"That looks like my goal statement for the next quarter"    
    

	R

    My buddy has a 6 hp Johnson and his doesn't ehaust through prop but it
    does exhaust below the water line. It's very quite. Most of the lager
    engines (>20hp) exhaust through the prop. In general I think you loose
    a little power exhausting through the prop or below the water line but
    I don't think it's noticable. Go for the Johnson. A time proven brand,
    the seahorse of outboards.
    Jim

    I'm not going to endorse anything since I've no experience with motors
    of this size.  But for what it's worth, a dealer told me a few years
    ago that TOHATSU makes all Mercs below about 15hp.  The only difference
    between a Merc and a TOHATSU in that size is the exterior.  Therefore
    you may assume that the experience of larger Merc owners, whether it be
    good or bad, does not necessarily apply to an 8hp.  Now, the next
    question is: What about TOHATSU?  Don't know except to say that the
    dealer thought highly of them (he sold both TOHATSU and Merc).  But
    then again, he was trying to sell me something...
    
    Good luck.
    
    Chris

    I bought a 1990 Suzuki 8hp for $825 discounted.  With the three
    year warranty, it makes a pretty good deal.  I have had ZERO problems
    with the Suzuki.

    I have a 3 year old 8hp Merc., I believe its made by Yamaha. Its
    the best running small motor I've ever owned. BTW, this motor is
    used on a small skiff, tied to a pier in salt water 8 months a year.
    The lower unit does look pretty bad from electrolysis, I'm too lazy
    to change a zinc.

                                                               
    Steve

	I have a 68 4hp Merc, it has had the water pump impeller replaced at 8 
years and at 19 years I replaced the whole water pump. it starts on 3 pulls 
every year and gets used many haours a year  ( I live on a lake ).

	My only complaint is that it idles rough for trolling cause it is only
1 cylinder. I would prefer a 2 cylinder. The motor is only pushing a small 12'
aluminum row boat.

	Jim

I have noticed in the  past five years YAMAHA has been the predominant choice
of ski show clubs.  I footed (deep water start) behind a 200hp YAMAHA with 
six people in the boat and was impressed with the power compared to my 260 merc
I/O (I know apples to oranges).  The YAMAHA was also very quiet.  

I went to the NE boat show last weekend.  Yamaha seemed to be the most visible
O/B there.  1 of the 5 (or so) Grady's had Johnson (twin 150s on the
Gulfstream 23), the rest had Yamaha's.  Not having owned a boat, I don't have
much personal experience.  BUT, being a future prospective boat owner, I ask
a lot of questions.  Yamaha definitely seems to be catching on.  I've even
seen some Ranger's with the 150 Yamaha on fishing shows.  For a while, it 
seemed like they were popular with the saltwater set.  My current opinion is
that if I get a bass boat (not a Ranger), it will probably have a 25 horse
Johnson on back.  Someday when I win Mass Millions, I'll buy that Gulfstream
which will probably have twin 150 Yamaha's on it.

I really like this discussion, because I'm doing a lot of comparison.  It's
difficult because as mentioned earlier, a bad experience makes you an enemy.

Hey Paul, what's on your Grady?  Why are you down on Yamaha?

Tim

                         
Re .27>
    Tim,
	I'm not really down on Yamaha. I'm just not down on any of the American
manufacturers either (except the F word). I guess my replies have appeared 
that way because I was defending Merc, which I have had excellent experiences 
with.
	My previously stated opinions were influenced by my experience plus 
reports from others. In my relatively small circle of boating friends I know
people who have recently had major, recurring problems with both Yamaha and 
Evinrude (aka Johnson) engines. The Yamaha (150 hp?) had/has an intermittent 
problem during which the motor would only hit a fraction of its normal RPM. 
The Evinrude (70hp) would also dog down to trolling speed on occasion. The 
owners of these motors are not happy. It took several trips back to the 
dealer to get them resolved. It turned out the Evinrude problem was a design 
screw up and eventually a redesigned part (whatever it was) was made available
while it was still under warranty. I'm not sure the Yamaha problem has been 
resolved yet. My experience with the 8 hp Yamaha was good but it did show 
more signs of corrosion than my other motors.
	I'm not saying Merc/Mariner is immune to defects either. Jeanne has 
obviously had problems with hers. I guess what I am saying is the brand 
loyalty issue is very subjective and based on very little statistical data; 
after all, how many boats/motors do we own in a lifetime? I don't see enough 
evidence to discount any of the major brands under discussion, or to pay a 
significant premium for one over the other.
	BTW - I currently am running a 200hp Mariner (Merc) on my 22' 
Aquasport. I don't want to say anything to jinx myself so I'll just say 
I'm happy with it. <  :^)  > To be honest if the dealer had offered the 
package in Johnson/Evinrude or Yamaha I would have still gone for it. As
I said in an earlier reply, my brand loyalty is fairly thin.

Paul

    I guess I started something when I took a shot at Merc's. Merc's do
    have their place in life. If I was on a lake and skied, I'd use Merc's.
    They get up and run with the best. They have a good hp to weight ratio
    and they're relatively dependable. My boat is in the ocean all season
    and I fish off shore. When I turn the key I want that sucker to start.
    Johnsons have done that for my dad for 40 years. Mercs are a highly
    tuned running machine, I want a hog that if need I can limp home with.
    If you get a good deal on a boat and motor and it's a Merc, buy it.
    Just keep the P. M. up and it'll treat you fine. 
    Jim
    

    	Reading this note has brought me a good laugh.  It's almost as if 
    I was back in high school listening to the Ford vs. Chevy wars.  Where 
    are the facts?  As a reliability engineer I know not to trust anyones
    horror stories.  There are and always will be "The Good, The Bad and
    The Ugly" and the results will fall neatly onto a bell curve.  Since
    C.U. does not gather data from thousands of owners about their boats
    and motors like they do for cars and since I do not know of any other
    organization that does(If you do, please post the statistics here for
    all to see), then I will put down what I know about outboard motors
    although I do not now nor have I ever owned one.  But first, I'd like
    to relate a little story about my brothers first boat.  Back in the 
    sixties, my brother bought a hydroplane.  Nothing fancy, 8' long and
    lots of fun.  He got a good deal on a 20HP Evinrude and we hung it
    on the back of the hydro.  There were no stainless props available
    back then at least not in the pitch we wanted, so we found a bronze
    racing prop and tuned up for racing.  My interest in this was to 
    make my brother successfull.  I was a mechanic involved with building
    racing bikes and cars for various daredevils.  In fact I learned all
    of my early lessons about reliability through racing.  It's always
    been the case that unreliable engines do not garner a reputation as
    racing machines.  The problem we had with the Evinrude was not one
    of unreliability however, it was just plain slow.  Oh it could
    scream its heart out at an amazing rpm with a leaned out mixture,
    but it just could not win any races.  We noticed that the winners
    ALL were using Mercs.  My brother bit the bullet and bought a brand
    new Merc 20 and because the props were incompatable and he was broke,
    we went out the first time with the factory propeller and were totaly
    amazed at the results.  The Merc didn't need any more than the factory
    prop to win races!  That's when I learned about how some manufacturers
    overrate their engines and how some underrate their engines.  It all
    has to do with marketing and how you need something to fill a market
    segment.  And if you can sell an 18 hp engine as a 20 cheaper than
    the competition...  Well, the bottom line is $$$.  Merc seems to have
    taken a different approach.  Forgetting about the market and going
    after the Gold means you sell a 22 hp engine as a 20 and so what if
    you lose sales because it costs more, you win races and that is exactly
    what Merc has done to this day.  After reading this note, my curiosity
    got the better of me and after coming up empty handed while looking
    for good reliability data(not what someone has to say about his dads
    motor).  I went looking for racing results because racing is the true
    test of both performance and reliability.  Racing engines are tuned
    to the max and stressed to the limits.  If anything is going to break,
    it will break under those conditions.  What I found was truly amazing.
    If any of you follow outboard racing, then this will be no surprize to
    you, but it certainly was to me.  
    
    	In both National(IOGP) and World Champion Formula One 2.0 litre
    powerboat racing, Mercury outboards are the engine of choice by 100%
    of the field, although both of these classes are open to all
    manufacturers.
    
    	Last year, in Offshore Pro Stock and Stock racing classes, Mercury
    outboards comprised 169 of 170 engines entered.  Naturally, Merc power
    took both national and world titles.
    
    	In U.S. Formula One racing, Mercury outboards were the engines of
    choice by two to one over all competitive brands.  The tour championship
    went to Buck Thornton, who drove his Merc V6 to victory over larger, V8
    competitors.
    
    	The word that comes to mind is Dominance.  Mercury outboards not
    only "get up and run with the best" as mentioned in the last reply,
    they are by the results, the standard to be judged by.  "Relatively
    dependable" did you say?  I'd say you could depend on a winner, yes.
    
    	So, the bottom line seems to be If you "want a hog to limp home
    with", there are many choices.  There seems to be however, only one
    true thoroughbred.  It's been over 25 years since I first witnessed
    Mercury outboards dominating racing.  It seems that in all of that
    time, they have managed to increase their chokehold on the field.
    Now surely they deserve better than they got from this note.  Any
    command performance would.  Long live the KING!
    
    							Don
    

    RE .30
    
    Something doesn't add up here.
    
    3 yrs ago, i went shopping for an inflatable and an outboard.
    I bought the dinghy on the North Shore. The dealer, carried
    Achilles inflatables, Mercury and Suzuki outboards.
    While they were getting the dinghy out of stock i wandered
    into the shop. Thousands of parts for Merc's, you name it,
    but no sign of any Suzuki outboards nor many spare parts.
    The service mgr. said "you need these spares for the merc's"
    don't need them for the Suzuki's.
    
    Well anyway i wanted a Yamaha 8 hp outboard, so i went 
    down to Billerica Ma. this dealership was also a Merc
    dealer, but he wasn't carrying the line anymore, although
    he still had a huge sign out front. "they're too much trouble,
    and Merc puts up a stiff fight when it comes to honoring the
    warranty, even though its very clear the part failed"
    
    I'm no authority, but these facts do imply some things.
    And more and more i see less and less of the Merc's
    and Johnson/Evinrude on the water.
    
    You can decide for yourself what this means, i've already \
    formed my opinion...
    
    I just don't need the hastle of my outboard in the shop
    during the season.
    
    Jim.

    re: .30
    
    Your note is just as emotionally charged as those you accuse.  Racing
    performance is irrelevant when it comes to what gets bought by J Q
    Public.   You really believe those Fountain ads? "We race on Sunday so
    you win on Monday".  Japanese-built engines are rarely used in racing
    situations (auto or boat) yet statistics continue to bear out their
    reliability in plain old consumer applications.  You are right that any
    marine engine discussion is loaded with 99% statistically insignificant
    facts (Everyone I know with an x has problem y where "everyone" is 3
    people).  But I fail to see how throwing modified racing engines into
    the equation helps out at all...
    

    re .30  Your points about personal opinion vs. hard data is well taken.
    Most of us don't have the luxury of having run hundreds of given brand
    engines under controlled conditions complete with statistical analysis
    of those tests.  We have to go by personal experience with one engine.
    THAT is what you have related in this notesfile.  Your arguments about
    Mercs being the engine of choice because of the rigors of racing are
    well taken, however, my personal experience with 1 Merc engine was that
    it was an unreliable dog.  And, that was with professional maintenance
    performed yearly on it.  I agree one dog of an engine does not represent
    all engines of that brand... but its all I had to go on.

    One more thing.  I have noticed that my Johnson 25 has far fewer parts
    than the 35 Merc I sold (thank God).  Usually with mechanical things
    more parts = more trouble everything else being equal. 

    Just learned another topic to avoid at social occasions - Mercs vs OMC.

    I guess I can add that to Politics, Religion, and PC vs MACs.
    

    
    RE: -1
    
    Don, Is that you!?
    
    Rick

    Yes
    

    Buy the one with the color that best matches the boat...
    
    
    There was one ocean racer who had four o/b's on the back, 1 merc, 1
    evinrude, 1 johnson, 1 something else.  If he won, he could collect
    contingency money from all four manufacturers!?!
    
    Carl
    

    Had a 7.5HP Merc on the back of my 3500 lb sailboat for eight years. 
    Never a problem, ALWAYS started on one or two pulls.
    
    In 8 yrs put less than 200 hrs on it - some weekends it would only run
    15min while we were anchoring, other times we would motor home 6-7 hrs
    at wide open throttle.  Don't know if this sporatic usage is harder on
    an engine than a lot of hours put on at a constant rate, or not.
    
    I'd hesitate to call it a "great" engine, because it did what I
    expected: started every time, always ran smooth, never required
    repairs.

    	Now that we have all had our shots at various brands and I'm sure
    no one has changed their opinions...;^)...I'd like to discuss another
    twist on the base note, basically Suzuki 8 hp vs Honda 8 hp.
    	Now I bet you all thought I'd never consider these but as I said
    before, my brand loyalty is pretty thin.
	I had an 8 hp auxilliary stolen and replaced it with a 25 hp I had
    on another boat. Even though I bought the strongest bracket I could
    find that 112 lb motor just doesn't look right on the tilt up bracket.
    I'd like to get a lighter one.
    	The reasons I am considering the two mentioned is that the Suzuki
    has oil injection and the Honda is a four stroke. Both will allow me to
    run off the main fuel tank. I also looked at the Yamaha but its only
    available in 9.9 hp which weighs 95 lb. If my memory is correct, the 
    Honda weighs about 77 lb and the Suzucki weighs 72 which is a few lb
    heavier than other two strokes (probably because of the oil injection).
    I can also get a 9.9 hp Suzuki at the same weight or at 77 lb with
    electric start.
    	I haven't considered price yet and I probably won't. I am mainly
    interested in the 2 vs 4 stroke issue. I know the 4 stroke will be
    quieter, more efficient and won't smell as bad. My main concerns are
    regarding the unknown. Does a 4 stroke start as easily as a 2 stroke?
    (The 8 hp Honda doesn't have electric start.) In their zeal to reduce
    weight have the engineers reduced reliability as well? Stuff like that.
    	Any experiences or opinions out there?
        
    Paul

    I have been considering getting a small kicker engine for my 22' boat
    somewhere in the 9.8 hp range.  I have read articles in the NE
    Fisherman about the Honda 4 stroke.  They were impressed (no suprise)
    with it.  They basically said it had more power than a same hp 2 stroke
    and better fuel economy.  Also, can use the main fuel with no mixing
    oil.
    
    Does anyone know if a 9.9 hp or simular hp engine will push my boat.  I
    will use it for bluefish/striper trolling and as a backup engine.  I
    figure with the fuel I same trolling that I will "justify" the cost of
    the engine in one or two years.
    
    Gordon
    

    Gordon,
    	I can definitely help you with the size question. My boat is also a
    22' and the 8 hp kicker was fine. If the 4 stroke does give you more
    push per hp an 8 hp will be more than enough. Thats why I'm not willing 
    to go the extra weight to get the 9.9 hp. If you don't have to use a
    tilt up bracket the weight issue may not be important but for me it is.
    
    Paul

      We used a 7.5hp to troll for many years behind my father's 20' boat.
    It would push the boat quite well and with the motor locked straight
    forward, you had slower, but still good steering which was excellent
    for trolling. Now they have a special bracket which connects the
    'trolling' motor to the main one. When the main engine turns, it also
    turns the trolling motor. The bracket is left on at all times and it
    does not effect the tilting of either engine. The 7.5 used about 1/4 
    the fuel that the main engine would use and even pushed the boat
    in from 6 miles out a couple of times - no problem, just a little over
    trolling speed.
    
    				Kenny

    I use a 10 hp Honda on a 22' Dory with no problems.  I troll out in the
    ocean with it all day and find no concerns with maneuverability, gas
    consumption, or reliability.  It's 7 yrs old, but I do get it tuned up
    before the start of salmon season every year.
    
    
    Ken

    Thanks for the info, up until now I have heard (from salesman)
    everything from a 8hp will do the job to you really should have a 25hp.
    I think the response depends on what they have in stock.
    
    Now I know, from those who know, that a 8hp will do the job.
    
    Now to convince the wife.
    
    Thanks
    Gordon
     

    	I'm still struggling with the 2 vs 4 stroke issue. The data seems
    to be leading me to the 8 hp Honda 4 stroke but I still have one nagging
    question...how well will it start?
    	I don't have the specs in front of me but 4 strokes are typically 
    higher compression than 2 strokes. Also you will get half the power 
    cycles per pull on the starter rope with the 4 stroke. These factors 
    are enough to question the ease of starting a 4 stroke vs a 2 stroke. 
    I know my lawn mower is more difficult to start than most small outboards.
    	Maybe I'm just nervous about going away from the old tried and true
    design. Anyone out there have any first hand experience with this? I 
    suppose the right thing to do is go to the dealer and try it, but that
    would be to simple.    ;^)
    
    Paul                                                         
    

Paul,
Ease of starting (IMO) has nothing to do with whether the motor is a
2 or 4 stroke.  The reason you've observed that most small outboards
start easier than lawn mowers (which is also debatable) is because
of the *quality* of the design.  Your average lawn mower is built to 
run for an hour or two a week for half the year, then be thrown away 
after 5 or 6 years.  To be price competitive, mowers have to be made
cheaply.  The design of the carburetor, ignition system, power head,
etc. is *PRIMITIVE*.  Hell, most lawn mowers are still flatheads, which 
haven't been used in cars in almost 40 years.  One noteable exception 
in mowers is from Honda, the same company which makes the outboard 
you're looking at, and advertises their's as "precision" mowers.  But
you also pay the price, these mowers ain't cheap.

Outboard motors are built for a different environment than your average
department store lawn mower.  They are built to run for longer periods
of time, at higher rpm, under greater stress, and with better efficiency.

Don't let the fact that your 4 cycle mower may be hard to start steer
you away from a 4 cycle outboard.  They're two different animals.

Rick

    Evidently you never owned a Honda product before. I would
    be more apt to say it will be one of the easiest machines
    you will ever start. They make a fantastic product. 

    Moved by moderator.  For more info, type DIR/TITLE=OUTBOARD. In
    particular, also check out note 568.  
    
================================================================================
Note 952.0  Used small outboard, which brand to consider & to stay a  No replies
MQOSWS::M_CHEVRIER "Michel A. Chevrier 632-3707 Mon" 27 lines  26-FEB-1992 11:22
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am planning to buy a used small outbuard motor in the 
range of 8 hp to 15 hp.  I know nothing about outboard 
motors, it will be my first one.  I believe that in that 
range of power the Mercury, Evinrude, Honda... of this world
are all created egual (see, I told you I knew nothing).

Maybe it is too much asking to get info on all of that
but if someone could either

	1) tell me the brands I should stay away from
	2) where I can access more info, special 
	   publications, consumer report...
	3) if the year of the model has an influence
	   on it reliability except for the normal wear.
	   Like some cars of some years are lemons

That motor would be used on a 14' or 16' alu row boat.

Thanks for any pointer.

Cross posted in Fishing-V2.

Michel.

DTN 632-3707
Mail : Michel Chevrier @MQO
VAXMAIL: MQOU06::M_CHEVRIER

Michel,
How old and used are you planning to go?  In other words, how much do 
you wanna spend?  And how much routine maintenance are you willing and
able to do yourself?

If you plan to keep it a long time, and do no maintenance yourself,
buy the best possible motor you can initially afford.  Avoid saltwater
motors like the plague, especially if you plan to go in fresh water
only.  Of the major brands, (Johnson, Evinrude, Merc, Yamaha, Nissan,
Honda, etc.) there are no "bad" motors.  I wouldn't waste my time with 
Consumer Reports, finding a motor that's in good condition and for which 
there's a reputable parts and service center nearby is more important 
than what CR says (if they cover used outboards at all).  About the only 
recently made motors you'll want to stay away from are Chrysler, mostly 
due to a lack of service centers, and Sears, because those are generally 
a little behind the others in quality.

If you're a tinkerer like me, you can save a lot of money by buying a
motor that needs a few repairs.  But again, avoid salt water motors.
I collect, repair, and restore old outboards as a hobby, and have about
15 motors, some as old as 1947 that run like new.  (I've got a few pre-war 
motors too, but they don't run so good...).  Older motors can be bought 
dirt cheap, and be made to run great.

Rick

I am planning to go as high as $850 US for a used motor.
Having said that I know at what price the noters
will offer me their motor :-) .

It can be 8hp, 9.9hp or 15hp.  I have to say that
I am looking favourably towards the 4 strokes
motors but most likely will not find one on the
used market.

It will be used only in fresh water.  Thanks for the 
hint about salt water motors.

From my reading last night of all the 798 and 568
notes I gattered that indeed Chrysler (Force) was not
a reliable buy.

Too bad for me but I do not have your talent for
motor work, I'll have to rely on service shops
to maintain the one I will buy.

Thanks for the info.

Michel.

PS: I really enjoyed the Merc VS OMC match that is 
going on, at least in the two topics I read.

    
    for a 14-16' alu row boat, a 9.9 hp motor would be fine.
    a 15 would really move it along.
    But the choice of hp is yours to make.
    
    A motor that has been in the salt is not always a bad choice.
    The catch here, is the previous owner. Its all in how they
    treated it. But for you, your best bet, unless your mechanically
    knowledable is to avoid them.
    
    My recommendations would be to purchase one that is no more than
    5 yrs. old, simply for the fact that many of the newer features
    will have been incorporated in it.
    
    Revaealing you upper $ limits makes no difference, remember your the
    buyer.
    
    JIm.

Someone in a previous note made reference to the
weight of the motor as a criteria if you have to
carry it every day.  In the last Trailer Boat 
Magazine they compare outboard specs from of 
10 manufacturers.  By looking at it, it became 
obvious that generally speaking the weight
of the Japanese models were higher.  Here is an
extract of the data in pounds:

			9.9hp		15hp

Evinrude		72		72
Johnson	(as expected)	72		72
Force			62		64
Mariner			69		71
Merc			69		71

Honda (4 strokes)	93		93
Nissan			84		84
Suziki			74		89
Tohatsu			82		82
Yamaha			83 2 strokes	83
			90 4 str
			97 4 str high thrust

Is quality mesured by the pound (eg: Force)?
Interestingly enough very often the 9.9's weight
is the same as the 15hp.

Michel.

RE: Note 798.53
>>Interestingly enough very often the 9.9's weight is the same as the 15hp.

This has been discussed somewhere else in the conference.  The reason is that
all OB manufacturers use the same motor to get 2 or 3 different hp ratings.
In the smaller hp ranges you pay several hundred dollars more for what usually
amounts to a bigger carb or reed plate, or maybe a little more compression. My
Johnson 88hp is the same as a Johnson 115, but the price difference is probably 
close to $1K (don't have exact figures).  A $400 price difference between a 9.9
and a 15 amounts to about $395 in extra profit for the dealer and mfg'er.  I 
guess when you think about it, it's the only way they can do it.  If they only
charged $5 more for a 15 than a 9.9, nobody would buy the 9.9 and they might as
well only have 3 or 4 hp ratings in their entire model line.

Rick

    
      You really are right, Rick. Typically, there are at least two
    different horsepowers of motors in each engine size for the brands with
    a large lineup. In the case of the Johnson 9.9-15 the difference is the
    head, cylinder porting and carb size. Yes, this probably costs the
    manufacturer like $10 extra dollars to actually produce. I would think
    that a large protion of the difference is profit combined with
    marketing (Who would buy the 9.9 unless required for restricted HP
    areas, when the 15 was only slightly more), but I would imagine that
    there would be a few more warranty repairs for the motor that was being
    'pushed' more, so prehaps some of that extra is a pad for the expected
    extra warranty work.
    
      In the larger motors, there really are some larger 'thing'. Like
    between my 100 and the 115, the exhaust housings are MUCH larger, so I
    would imagine that there is a fair differential in cost there, as well
    as the beefier pistons, larger reeds, larger carbs, and of course,
    greater chance or warranty repairs. 
    
    All in all, it is better to buy the lesser rated HP for engine size if 
    you do not care so much for weight and are more interested in longevity.
    
    				Kenny

Has anyone ever ordered their outboards from one of the discount leftover 
ads?  Places I am talking about are listed in the back of a number of 
fishing/outdoor mags.

For example in "the Fisherman" each and ever week their are ads from 
Electra-Marine (516-599-3003) as well as a few others.

All quote very low prices delivered.

Any experiences?

carl

    
      I bought a 3hp Evinrude from Eletra. They didn't want MC/Visa (I
    forget if they would not take it or if they just wanted an extra %3?) I
    sent them a check and they UPSed (it was light enought) the motor to me
    still in the factory crate/box. I am completely happy with the way
    everything turned out and I got the motor for at least $100 less than
    anybody else would sell it to me for. The motor also came with all the
    factor warranty papers. 
    
      I would definitely do it again, the savings on the larger motors are
    really large. One thing you do have to remember is that set up on a
    larger motor is a moderate amount of work, but if you have the
    inclination and can do the work, it sure is a good way to save big
    bucks getting a brand new (1 or 2 year old), fully warranted motor.
    
    					Kenny

	Moved by moderator
    	------------------
    
    
              <<< VICKI::SIE$DATA1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]BOATS.NOTE;1 >>>
                                -< Powerboats >-
================================================================================
Note 1037.0                Opinions on Honda Outboards                No replies
NWD002::OBRIENKE                                      9 lines  19-JAN-1993 19:13
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I'm looking for a small outboard as auxiliary power for our 19'
    Bayliner Cuddy Cabin.  Right now I'm leaning toward the 9.9HP Honda.
    The two main features that appeal to me are 1) it's a 4 stroke and I
    could tap in to my main fuel supply. 2) It puts out 12 volts so you
    could conceivably use it to recharge a dead battery (or at least get
    the main engine going again). 
    
    We plan to take our boat into some remote lakes and would like some
    backup power.  Any opinions on Honda vs. Suzuki, Yamaha etc.

Re -1>
	Last season I bought an auxilliary motor for the same reasons you 
mentioned. I went with the Suzuki 9.9 primarily because it could be serviced
locally. Honda doesn't seem to have the coverage in that area, at least here 
in Maine.
	The Suzuki has oil injection so it can run off the main tank. It is 
designed as an auxilliary motor so it has some nice features and it runs good.
	A few surprises I encountered after I bought it though kind of soured 
me on the unit. Although the motor has an alternator as standard equipment, in 
order to function as a battery charger requires an optional rectifier etc. 
which was extra, I found this out after I got the motor home. Flushing the 
motor is a nightmare and requires an optional hose adaptor which I also didn't 
find out about till I got it home. The design is so bad I use a barrel of 
water to flush it and that's no simple feat when its attached to a 22 footer 
on a trailer.
	The dealer tried to make it good; he got the optional stuff and didn't 
charge me for it but by the time it was functioning I was so bummed I just 
didn't like the motor anymore. 
	I ordered the motor at a boat show and they didn't have it right 
there to inspect. I saw the specs and they looked good. I never suspected 
that they would have such a lousy flushing system. Well you live and learn 
I suppose.
Regards,
Paul

    re. -1
    
    I have a 10 hp Honda and that flushing system is no treat.  Also the
    charging gizmo you talk about is extra.  But, I've used it
    for years as a kicker in the salt and it has never burped one time.  I
    get a tune up on the off season, though.
    
    Ken

    	The ads for the new Johnson/Evinrude 9.9 and 15 mention their new
    flushing system with a garden hose fitting...  Can't get much easier.
    
    					B.C.

    This is a bit off the subject, and some will disagree, but IMHO, 
    there is no reason to buy a Japanese outboard.  They may have a
    few features or motors which are superior, as any competitor would.
    But with the possible exception of the smaller 4 strokes for trolling,
    the Japanese do not have a lock on quality, price, design features,
    service centers, or serviceability when it comes to outboards. With
    some products such as TV's or VCR's, you have no other option. But
    there's no real reason to send your money overseas, when in most
    instances the American stuff is clearly competitive or superior. New 
    products like the OMC "Ocean Pro" or EFI Merc's are prime examples.
    
    Rick

    Re: .-1 
    
    Yes and no.    It is certainly the case that the market is more
    competitive compared to some other things, like VCRs.  But my take is
    that the American outboard manufacturers (not to mention inboards) have
    been very slow to innovate.  The large Yamaha outboards use hi-tech
    instrumentation and micro-processor controls in parts of the engine,
    they have a more advanced oiling system (I am told).  The Japanese
    engines have also led in 4-stroke and EFI designs. And the last time I
    looked, the prices on big Yamahas were even slightly below OMC/Merc
    (hard to compare though since bigger discounts are usually available on
    the domestic brands).   Whether there is enough difference to warrant
    sending your money overseas is certainly debatable, but saying there
    is "no reason to buy a Japanese outboard" seems like an overstatement.
    
    Jim
    

    
      Hmm, I do like the Yamaha integrated instruments. I think it's a good
    idea. I'm not impressed with the other engine-control electronics they
    use. Certainly OMC and Merc have electronice engine management controls
    on all of their bigger engines which gets the job done very nicely
    thank you, with little extra frills which IMHO are unnecessary things
    that just add to what can break. (I know, I know, where do you draw the
    line at what is and is not necessray?) FI is fine, but Merc and OMC
    have it too and it helps, but not *that* much. Better oiling systems on
    Yamaha? Show me an oiling related failure that is a design flaw of the
    others. The only things I've heard of related to oil are ring sticking
    and from what I hear, ALL the large engines from ALL manufacturers  are
    prone to it.
      Ok ok, so there's *little* reason to send money overseas.
    
    				Kenny

re: Note 798.63
>> saying there is "no reason to buy a Japanese outboard" seems like 
>> an overstatement.
    
Well, I did say that some people may disagree.   8^)

I also said that there are some instances where the Japanese motors are
superior.  Particularly in 4 cycle technology.  I suspect that will
change shortly, because with marine emissions standards just around the 
corner, American mfg'ers are working feverishly on 4 cycles and low 
emissions closed crankcase 2 cycles with fuel injection.

>> The large Yamaha outboards use hi-tech instrumentation and micro-
>> processor controls in parts of the engine, they have a more advanced
>> oiling system (I am told).

It sounds as if you're basing some of your opinions on hearsay by mentioning
"(I am told").  Believe me, American outboards are right up there on high tech
electronics, instrumentation, fuel and oil injection, etc.  Sure, as I said, 
there are *particular models* of Japanese motors that are superior, any 
competitor had better have at least one or two motors that are "best in class"
(or "lowest price in class" as in the case of Force).  If one of those motors 
are the best for your application, by all means go for it.

I guess what I meant to say, is that outboard motors are one of the few
areas where we are still VERY competitive and in many cases superior. In
talking to people and to some extent in this note, I notice a hint of "if
it's Japanese it must be superior".  Not necessarily true, as attested to 
by some of the last few notes.  In fact the big Yamahas are presently having 
problems with stuck rings and meltdowns.  Much more so than the other mfg'ers.
I just hate to see people think that Japanese outboards are automatically 
superior, cause it ain't true.

When I'm buying something, I try to buy the best product that I can afford.
If it happens to be Japanese, so be it.  If an American product is comparable
or superior, that's the one I go with (my Nissan pickup was assembled in 
Tennessee, FWIW).  This isn't "Japan Bashing" at all, I think they make
some great stuff, some of their outboards included.  But give the American
mfg'ers a break and take a look at their outboards before assuming the 
foreign stuff is better - I think you'll be pleasantly surprised, and our
own economy will certainly be better for it.

Rick

P.S.  Whaddya think, should I use this speech at the boat show I'll be
      working for a local dealer in a few weeks?   8^)

    re: Oil
    
    "I am told" means I'm not an expert in this area but have heard it
    said that the Yamaha oiling system delivers the oil behind the
    carbs just ahead of the reed valves.  Keeping oil out of the carb
    seems like a good idea, but as I said, I could be wrong.
    
    re: Japan
    
    Actually Rick, I agree with you 100%.  As a matter of fact I tend
    to give the American product the benefit of the doubt.  If I ever
    had an outboard engine choice (let's see a 250hp outboard will set
    you back a mere $15K), I'd stick with OMC.
    
    And I drive a Ford Explorer, which for all I know in today's auto
    industry, was probably assembled in Japan :-)
    

    FWIW
    
    I have two freinds that each own inflatables that serve as tenders to
    their sailboats.  1 is an AVON with a Merc 9.9, the other is a Zodiac
    with a Honda of equivalent hp.  The inflatables are the same length,
    within inches.
    
    In my opinion (and just about everyone esles at the club where these
    boats are kept) the Merc is a much better choice giving much smoother
    handling.  The Honda has VERY touchy throtle controls, and has little
    or NO "tension/resistance" on the control.  This is also true of the
    engine "swing/steering".  These two things combined tend to make the boat 
    more difficult to handle, regardless of wind/water conditions.
    
    While I'm sure these things could be fixed/altered by changing springs, 
    etc...I don't think I would be willing to do that an a brand new
    engine.   The Merc is also much easier to start, not that the Honda is
    a big deal to pull, but the general consensus is that the Merc is a
    better deal for this particular application.
    
    My .02 worth...
    
    re: Ford Explorer
    
    	Made in part by Mazda...so you're close...
    
    jim

    I have a small Merc (5hp, 1990 vintage) which powers my 19' sailboat
    when necessary.
    
    It has seen some significant duty, including 65 miles up the coast of
    Maine and back in windless weather. It has friction controls for both
    the throttle and the steering, swivels 360 degrees (as well as F-N-R
    shift) , has both an
    external fuel tank and an internal 0.6 gal, which makes a great
    reserve and lets me completely empty my external tank. It also has a
    charger - rectifier, 1.5 amp output which is enough to support my
    electronics and occasional light use.
    
    I have had a couple of things break - the fuel connector and the
    neutral starting switch linkage. I am quite happy with it; have found
    it to be relaible and easy starting, and my local dealer (Green's 
    Marine, in Hooksett N.H.) has taken good care of me.
    
    Bill
    

    I forgot to add - I paid about $1000 for my 5hp Merc, including add-on
    charger - rectifier.

    	I have touted the American quality issue many times in this file.
    My main motor is a 200 hp Mariner and my canoe motor is an Evenrude and
    My fresh water boat motor is a Merc. In the application that started this 
    conversation however there are no American equivalents that I know of.
    	As an auxilliary motor, one that runs off the main fuel tank is a
    big advantage. That's why I only looked at 4 stokes and oil injected 2
    stokes. Suzuki is the only one offering oil injection in the smaller
    models and Honda or Yamaha are the only ones offering four strokes in
    this size range. There are (at least as of last year) no American 
    manufacturers in the running.

    I have no experience with having to have an auxilliary motor since I
    keep my boat on a small lake but I would think that being able to run
    off of the main tank would not be a good idea if your problem in the
    first place was water in the gas, which seems to be a common problem.
    Do you also keep a small portable tank just in case?  How do you "tap"
    into the main gas line?
    Wayne

re: .71
Good question! Two of the main causes of strandings (and the need for
a backup outboard) are fuel contamination and just plain running out 
of fuel. 

If you rely on the main tank to fuel your backup motor, you're just as
screwed in either situation as if you had no spare motor.  For offshore
use, it's always a good idea to run your kicker motor off a separate
fuel supply.  In the current issue of Trailer Boats, there's an article
in which the editors took a 24' Bayliner 1200 miles along the Pacific
coast.  Their backup outboard (which they never needed) was fueled by
a separate 12 gallon Tempo tank.

Rick

    
      OMC has a nifty device that solves the problem of oil injection for a
    kicker motor or ANY size that doesn't already have oli injection.
    
      You can now buy OMC tanks with a seperate oil resivoir inside that
    automatically mixes the oil and gas. Great. But did you know that you
    can buy a oil tank/mixing thingy that is MADE to fit IN-LINE in a fuel
    line? It mixes the oil at a constant ratio of 50:1. That means you can
    run ANY outboard (not just OMCs) off of a non-mixed fuel supply as long
    as they normally use a 50:1 ratio by adding this into the fuel supply line.
    
    					Kenny				

>>>But did you know that you can buy a oil tank/mixing thingy that is 
>>>MADE to fit IN-LINE in a fuel line? 
    
Kenny,

This sounds great... where can they be bought from? Something
tells me they won't be cheap.

	Steve

    	I have one of those oil intermix units and I have had poor results
    from it. 
    	
    Regarding a single tank.> 
    	To each his own. I understand the risks of using one tank vs two
    and I consider them acceptable. I always leave with a full tank (85
    gal). I also try to keep the fuel clean with a water separator/filter.
    Finally I usually gas up at stations that I have dealt with before and I
    burn the best grade gas. I realize there is still a chance of a tank
    failure or bad gas but I think its a low enough probability that I can
    rest easy. Keep in mind the vast majority of folks are out there with 
    only one motor. 
    	In my case the auxilliary isn't only used for safety, it is primarily 
    used for trolling. In that case, not having one or more gas tanks in the 
    way is a dramatic improvement. 
    
    Regarding switching between tanks.>
    	I have a valve that selects which motor the gas will be fed into.
    
    Regards,
    Paul                            

    re.74
    
      Steve - It is a normal OMC accessory and can be found in the OMC
    'Parts and Accessories' catalog.  It is a small device with most of its
    size being taken up by the oil tank itself.
    
    
    re.75
    
      Paul - What do you mean you have one and have bad results? Did it not
    work? Was it inconvenient? This is the same system that OMC uses in
    their 'automixing' tanks. They've had the tanks and this add-on unit 
    for several years now and I would be extremely surprised if they 
    didn't work properly. Given the nature of what they have to do, I'm 
    sure they have been carefully evaluated and conservatively designed.
    
    				Kenny

    	The oil intermix system I had was a Mariner system. I ran it with 
    an 8 hp Mariner auxilliary and later with a 25 hp Merc. The problems I
    had were the motors couldn't maintain suction and would die. I had 
    limited success with the Mariner and practically none with the Merc.
    	I tried messing with the connections (assuming air leaks), reducing 
    excess hose length etc but ultimately I gave up. 
    	To be honest it may have been my application which was severe. The 
    fuel traveled about 20 ft or more in large diameter hose through several 
    connections including a valve used to select between the two motors. The 
    system was down in the bilge and had to be sucked uphill as well. When 
    the valve was turned establishing and maintaining suction was difficult...
    just think of all the air that had to be sucked out of the section of hose 
    that was empty.
    	Anyway, I still have the unit. If someone wants to try it let me
    know. It may work for you. It can be had for a good price.
    
    Paul
        

    I feel better

    Anyone have an opion on Suzuki versus Yamaha? Specifically, 
    Yamaha Pro 50 versus Suzuki 55 w/TT?
    
    Thanks, Peter 

    I am serioulsy considering the purchase of either a Honda 35 or 45.  A
    friend of mine has used a 45 to fish commercialy for about  1 1/2 years 
    with no complaints.  As a matter of fact, he said that he would
    recommend them to anyone.
    
    Does anyone else have any comments on the 35 or 45 from Honda?  Any 
    information, good or bad would be appreciated...
    
    Best Regards,
    Duncan
    

    
       I recently bought a new boat, and during my reaearch I saw that
    every manufacturer makes a 9.9 hp motor. Why this oddball size?
    Do small boats that use this size outboard have some sort of weird
    restriction that they have to be under like, 10 hp?
    
        I was just curious about this, as I did not buy one of those small
    boats. I got a Glastron ski boat. I just think that 9.9 number is
    strange.....
    
    -john

    In some states, you only have to register a boat if it has a 10hp or
    greater motor. Thus the 9.9 to get under the limit.
    
    Chris

    
    I asked a similar question a couple of years ago and recall a 
    slightly different answer(s).
    
    I think there have been improvements in technology during the recent
    past and existing designs now produce more power.   
    
    There may have been some tinkering with the horsepower calculations as well.
                                                      
    
    

    
    The Federal Government does not require the registratio of a boat
    powered by less than 10 hp, however most states require registration
    of power propulsion of any size
    
    regards Pat...

    In Europe, some countries require that a driving license be held by
    owners of boats powered by 10HP and above motors.  

    >In Europe, some countries require that a driving license be held by
    >    owners of boats powered by 10HP and above motors.
       
    Ken,
    
    Is that like an auto drivers license (so that they can couple DWI/BWI
    and other offenses), or a boat driving license?
    
    Regards,
    
    Bill
    

      
    
       No such thing as a boat license in N.H. If you get BUI you lose your
    
    rights to drive a car. Same thing only different...
    
    Although, you must be 16 to operate a boat with more than 25 ponies.

    If you have a Yacht Policy, which is required on all I/O's and
    inboards, your policy will cover a tender, which must be 12' or less,
    and under 10 HP.
    
    My 12 ' fishing boat with a 9.9 evenrude, is insured for no cost.

    I believe some lakes have restrictions of less than 10 hp.  The
    9.9 is certainly an artifact of some type of regulation.  The 9.9
    outboards are identical to the 15 hp, except for the carb.
    
    Mark,
    

    re: .-few
    
    License required as in taking a marine exam before you are let lose
    behind a wheel or in front of a tiller :-)   -Ken