Conference vicki::boats

    Is a 21 footer with 2 50hp under powered?? Seems like it might be
    but maybe whaler hulls don't need that much hp to get you there
    and back.
    
    Bruce

    I've got a 16-foot Whaler with 70HP, and that's the legal limit.

    My guess is that the 21 footer will take more than 100HP. If you
    are taking it on some large water, the redundancy is nice, and
    maybe two of anything larger won't fit.

    
    I've got a Whaler (13.5ft,1986 Super Sport/35 Merc), $9,000 sounds about
    right for a 21'.  I paid $6,500 for mine brand new, a dealer in
    Medford, MA wanted $7,000 for the exact same boat.  These boats
    are expensive, but well made/designed and hold their value.
                             
    Plus you can't sink them.  Good luck and enjoy!
    

    Sounds to me like you could use some more horse power. Most of the
    guys around here(Long Island) run a minimum of v-4s some like to
    move up to 150 hp v-6s for the extra tork. In rough water a pair
    of 50s sounds a little small.
    
    
      Bill
    

    The price sound great! ALthough it's four years old, most smaller
    BWs hold their value very well. If I sold my Montauk (17') today
    I'd expect more than the $9K. At that price, is it a bare boat or
    are there some extras?
    
    Jerry
     

	I have the opportunity to puchase a 21' Boston Whaler

    According to my BW pricelist, there isn't a 21' model. (And I
    don't remember one, other than the Revenge, and it was only
    made until '81 or '82.) The possibilities are 17' Montauk, or
    19' or 22' Outrage. I would think that 100 total HP on either
    Outrage would be way too small.  BW lists minimum power
    required to plane.  I'll look up the information at home
    tonight.

	- Lee

    From the latest and greatest BW wish book. . .
    
    20' Outrage & Revenge Min HP recomended - 90, Max 200
    22'    "         "    & Temptation Min recomended HP - 90, Max 240
    
    (min hp to plane satisfactorily with light load)
    
    Later,
    Brian  (the new proud owner of a BW 15' Sport CC)
    

    The Coast Guard here in Rochester has a 22 BW with twin 70s. Station
    Niagara has the same rig with twin 90s. Both these boats have
    SIGNIFICANTLY heavy gear on board and still move really well. I
    don't think you will have a problem with twin 50s. Even so, at that
    price (GREAT) you could trade the 50s in later on 90s if you really
    wanted all that go. Also what BW considers a "satisfactory plane"
    is akin to a rabbit comming out of a hole with his tail on fire!!
    If you don't want it, let me know!!!
    
    Don

	Thanks, for all the comments and suggestions .

David

    OK, I have another Boston Whaler question....
    I now own a 15' S/S with a 60hp evinrude.  I bought the boat 15
    months ago and use it at Cape Cod and local lakes.  The boat shuttles 
    the kids to the beach, but I use it mostly for fishing.  I *love* the
    boat but am considering trading up to a 17' S/S.
    
    I've noticed that when things get lumpy there isnt much between
    me and the water.  The 17' looks to have more freeboard and I'm
    hopefull the additional length will lessen the times when water
    comes over the bow.  (reading this it looks like I spend most of
    my time fighting 'nor easters.  In fact, the opposite is true...I
    like a big margin of saftey)
    
    Questions
    
    	Is this fuzzy thinking ?  Am I going to get any measurable
        advantage from the bigger boat ?   The 17' is 16" longer and
    	6" wider, and the extra space would help ease the beach trips
    	but will the bigger boat handle differently ?
    
    	Power...  I now have a 60hp motor, the 15' is rated for 70 but
    	I dont see where I ever would want more power.  The dealer is
    	reccommending a 90 for the 17'.  Any opinions on using a 80?
    
    	Cost...  I just brought the boat to be winterized and the dealer
    	said he'd work up the figures when I came back.   Any idea what
    	this will run - anyone done the same/similar trade ?
    

    I am not an expert on Boston Whaler...but I am not sure the trade
    up 2' will gain you that much, you might want to move up to about 19'
    and then you will definitly realize a gain. Buy the most boat you
    can afford, you will not out grow it as fast. A few extra bucks
    a month is worth the peace of mind of safty (granted Boston Whaler
    is a very safe hull anyway). In a 19' versus 17' you will now have
    a boat that can run offshore (on nice days) to fish where now I
    hope you do not venture more than a couple of miles from shore.
    
    Bruce

I owned a 17' Boston Whaler Montauk with a 100 Evinrude. Sold it to my
best friend, now I still get to use it. 

There is no difference in outside (wetted) hull design between the 13,
15, and 17 foot Whalers. Just progressively longer, wider, deeper. There
is a BIG difference between the 17 and the 18. For one thing, the 17, as
Captain Codfish mentioned (I think), is really 16' some inches; the 18 is
over 18, so there's almost a two foot gain between the 17 and 18. 

Next, the 18 actually has the deepest vee bottom of all the Whalers (of
any size, including the 31).  Much better ride in a chop, but softer at
rest or trolling. What that means is it's not as pleasant a ride when
trolling or stopped to work a fish; it rolls MUCH more than the 17. 

The 18 is the first Whaler on the ladder with a built-in under-deck fuel
tank.

With your SuperSport you ride sitting down 98% of the time, right? With a
Montauk you'd ride standing 98% of the time. Enter some psychology, on
which Whaler has capitalized for 20+ years: the boat *FEELS MUCH BIGGER*
when you're standing up holding on to the wheel, looking over the
console. The high bow rail on the Montauk adds to the illusion of size.
Illusion of size translates to sense of stability which results in
extraordinary feelings of confidence. 

An additional factor is that while you're standing, you learn to unlock
your knees. You flex your legs as the boat hits chop, so the rough water
does not get translated to shock movement of your head. The boat's
banging away, but you sense a smooth ride. Ever ride a trail bike? As an
example, a couple of weeks ago I was on the Merrimack with my friend in
his Montauk. We were zipping along at about 45 (indicated), the boat was
moving up and down beneath us, but our heads were remaining at a fairly
level height above the water; our legs were working like crazy under us.
Picture it.

As you well know, there are a lot of factors to consider when you're
buying a boat. If you want a boat small enough to trail easily, small
enough to beach (and get off without a crane), small enough to be able to
shove away from a dock with one foot, small enough that your teenagers
can responsibly run on the river and maybe out the mouth, I think 17' is
the upper limit. And, if you want that boat big enough to carry the
family and ski behind, big enough to go a few miles offshore, big enough
to give you a sense of stability and confidence, with a hull design that
will let three adults lean over the starboard rail while you are boating
a fish, I think the 17' Montauk is not only the lower limit, it's my
FIRST choice. 

Definitely get the 90 horse, not an 88. The power T&T alone is worth it
in the short term, the increased resale value is worth it in the long
term.

I went over the horizon many times with my Montauk. Noman's Land and
Block Island were normal runs out of Westport MA. I upgraded to my
present 24' HydraSports to gain a cuddy cabin and more storage space. I
didn't really extend my range much.

Lots of opinion here, but it's built on three years on a Montauk. I miss
it.

Art

    A couple of years ago I talked with the Dick Fisher the founder of the
    company, and the designer of the 13 and the 17.
    
    I told him I was thinking about a 17.  His opinion was that the
    15 was a better boat, a drier boat, a better riding boat.  Having
    used 13, 15, and 17,  I agree with one qualification - the 17 is
    a better ski boat with a 90 hp.
    
    If you don't care about the extra pull for skiing, I don't think
    trading to a 17 will get you anything you don't already have.
    
    Don
    
     

	Re .10>

		I seriously considered a Whaler when I bought my boat
	2 years ago. I felt that the difference between the 17' and
	18' was significant. As previously mentioned, the 18 is the
	start of the deep V, built-in fuel tank, 8' beam etc. Although
	the Montauk is *GREAT* its still a 6' beam boat without many
	of the features considered necessities by many a salt water 
	fisher/boater types. It may be all the boat you'll ever want,
	but I doubt it. 
		I heard of one person who actually fished for 
	Tuna out of a Montauk at ranges of 15 - 20 miles offshore. 
	I also heard of a serious accident where a Whaler corkscrewed
	in a breaking sea and threw the crew out. The boat kept going
	in a circle and ran over the the owner, severing both his legs. 
	The only reason I am bringing this up is that even though the 
	hull will not sink and probably will not break up, a small boat 
	in the ocean can still capsize easily.
		Another point which may or may not have any bearing,
	depending on how long you keep the boat, is the size of your
	family (both in terms of numbers and physical size). You 
	mentioned kids (plural) so you must have more than one. I 
	would think that the 17' would get mighty small as the kids
	get bigger.
		All these good things which come with size however
	have a price and they may not be necessary for you. I am 
	offering my opinion based on my experiences and the type
	of fishing/boating that I do. I went from a 14' deep gunneled
	open boat to my current boat because I didn't dare venture
	out to where the fishing was really good. I bought a 22' 
	Aquasport and now the spots that looked so good from in shore 
	aren't far enough either, so I am venturing further and wishing 
	my boat was 25' or 30' or ..... 

Good Luck in whatever you choose.
Paul

    It was a cold October evening in 1978 when a 521-foot freighter and the
U.S. Coast Guard cutter "Cuyahoga" collided in Chesapeake Bay.  A 13-foot
boat was strapped to the cutter's deck.  The "Cuyahoga" sank immediately,
and 11 men died.  But the boat, whose foam-core construction gave it
tremendous buoyancy, snapped the line holding in down, and shot out of
the water like a frightened porpoise.  15 men clung to the side of the
boat for 15-minutes before they were rescued.  The boat was a Boston Whaler.

    30 years ago the first 13' Boston Whaler went into the water.
Some people said it wouldn't sell because it didn't have what was all
the rage in boat design that year...tail fins.  Others said it looked like
a bathtub, and wanted to know where the soap dish was. 

	The man who started it all was Richard T. Fisher.  In 1954, somebody
showed him a reference to a new product called foaming-in-place plastic-
polyurethane foam.  His first foam-filled boat was a sailing dinghy.
Next, C. Raymond Hunt came onto the scene, he designed a small outboard
boat for Fisher, a dead crib known as a Hickman Sea Sled.  The Sea Sled
was blunt-bowed and was actually two hulls with a tunnel running down the
middle.  These designs eventually resulted in the hull shape Boston Whaler
uses today to build their small boats.

	There were other qualities that in 1956 were considered revolutionary.
Chief among them was its foam-core construction - a system whereby the
boat is made of two fiberglass skins between which liquid foam is pumped.
When the foam expands and hardens it forms a single sandwich-like hull
that is not only extremely buoyant but also provides the boat with great
strength and rigidity.  In theory, this method of construction is simple.
But Boston Whaler is the only boat company that has ever figured out how
to do it successfully.

	To celebrate its 30th year, Boston Whaler has introduced a new boat -
a 15'3-foot Whaler call the "Mischief".  The boat has a closed-bow for
storage, comes with a ski-pylon assembly, bucket seats, and a boarding/
ski ladder.  Maximum horsepower 70/persons capacity 5, boat weight 630 lbs.
They've advertised this boat with a woman driving it (hey, thats me!) :>)
Colors available are fire-engine red, or tan.

jd/

    re: the trade up from 15' s/s to a Montauk  - the best deal I was
         quoted was my boat plus $8,600.  They were willing to talk some
         more, but at these prices I dont think I'm interested.
    
    	I think I'll wait

    Reviving an old note with a simple question:
    
    Why is the Boston Whaler such a popular boat?
    
    I was first attracted to it by its simple design. It looks simple,
    sturdy, and light, qualities that appeal to me in cameras, computers,
    bicycles, cars, and airplanes.
    
    Now that I've ridden in one, however, I'm shocked they're so popular.
    The waves were only about 18 inches high, wind- and wake-induced, but
    it was the most spine-jarring ride I have ever experienced.
    
    Are all BWs like that? (I noted the comments in an earlier note that
    the standup console teaches the pilot to absorb the shocks in the knees
    and thighs, all of which reinforced my curiosity.)
    
    It looked like the perfect boat for my purposes (hauling up to four
    divers around lakes and coastal areas), but now I wonder whether
    anybody would feel healthy enough to do anything after a trip in
    anything but mirror-smooth water.
    
    Is there something about the boat that I'm missing?
    
    John H-C
    
    Or is it the buoyancy? I suppose padded seats could reduce much of the
    stress of constant impact.....
    

RE: .17,

>>>    I was first attracted to it by its simple design. It looks simple,
>>>    sturdy, and light, qualities that appeal to me in cameras, computers,
>>>    bicycles, cars, and airplanes.

The moldings are actually rather complex, which is one key reason for the 
high cost; it's a highly tooled molding.  There's also a good deal of
glass, so I don't think they're particluarly light for their size, either.
Any reputation for lightness probably comes from the early 60's when it 
was the wooden Thompsons and Larsens used for comparison.

Having spent a year and a half running an old 19' Whaler Outrage (more or
less a rounded cathedral hull) followed by another year and a half in a
new 21' V-bottom Outrage in chop up to 4' for up to 90 miles at a pop 
(Key West to Flamingo, via Hawk Channel thru Bahia Honda Bridge and across
Florida Bay), there was a *huge* difference in rough water performance 
(though not in flat-water top speed.)  Trip times in similar conditions
were up to 50% less in the later boat.  Though not recommended, the
V-bottom version could be driven completely off a wave and landed without
losing back teeth; the flatter earlier model was dangerous, and eventually
even the console shook loose. 

But in a small boat in rough conditions, you and your passengers will
pretty much have to stand anyway and use legs to absorb shock, unless you
slow it way down. 

IMHO, Whaler's deserved reputation is for their ruggedness.  I watched a 
21' Mako sink when a stringer separated, causing a a 6' longitudinal 
crack, and sinking the boat (which was underway) in less than a minute. 
Never did any Whaler suffer even a hint of structural damage.  Note: All
these boats served in Outward Bound for logistics and rescue work, hardly
recreational service, so you may assume your own boat would never see
something this quite close to destruction testing.  ;-) 

J.

    Whalers have their own fanatical following.  They have to be fanatical
    to accept what is clearly the least boat for the money in the industry.

    >> Whalers have their own fanatical following. They have to be
    >> fanatical to accept what is clearly the least boat for the 
    >> money in the industry.
    
    Gee, is there a note for votes on "the most boat for the money"
    anywhere in here?
    
    Thanks for the responses to the BW question.
    
    John H-C

    	Before too many people go off the deep end either for or against
    Whalers we should ask John what size it was that he had a ride in.
    I used to fish with a friend who had a little Sport 13.  All it took
    was a little chop to really shake you up at high speed.  I currently
    own a 15 GLS.  It is a totally different hull shape.  On the 13 the
    sponsons ride on the water at speed while the 15 is MUCH more of a
    sharp entry V hull and gives a much better ride.
    	The Whaler in the small sizes is a very light boat.  The basic
    13' weighs 360 lbs. but has a max weight capacity of 1200 lbs.!!
    My 15' weighs 580 and with the 70 Johnson I've seen 50 mph on my
    speedo (Eagle Magna Plus) and the boat feels great at that speed.
    	I also feel that I got the MOST boat for my money.  I shopped
    for good basic quality instead of quantity of doo-dads and metalflake.
    
    	Oh, the Navy and the Coast Guard kinda like em too!!
    
    			My 2 cents
    					B.C.
    

    Judging from how much longer it was than my inflatable (11.5 feet) when
    the guy pulled up next to me in the middle of the lake, I'd say it was
    a 15 footer. It had a 50hp Evinrude on the back.

    
    I used to own a 13.5 SS Boston Whaler, 1985.  I paid $5600
    for it (new) and sold it five years later for $4200.  I
    probably could have gotten more, but I was eager to sell.
    
    Personally, I think they are overpriced, but....
    you get what you pay for.  These boats can take it, 
    (for years and years and years and years and years)!
    and for the person who was asking about cutting one
    in half, I have a picture here in my office of
    a Boston Whaler thats been sawed in half.  The
    fellow in one half of the boat is motoring away,
    while the person in the front has his oars out!
    This advertisement appeared in Life Magazine in
    1958.
    
    Jeanne                                                   
    
    
    
    
    

I owned a 14' McKee Craft for a few years, before I moved up to a 17'
Boston Whaler Montauk. The McKee was somewhat famous as having been a
Whaler rip-off; the hull mold was "pulled off" a Whaler. Anyway, the
McKee name is still around, altough it's not as prevalent around NE as it
is from South Jersey southward. McKee is in North Carolina. They have
retained the cathedral hulls that BW built their "stability" rep on years
ago. (_That_ stability is no longer there, in the vee-ed out new models
that have been produced since BW was sold and moved to Florida.)

There were a number of BW wannabees like McKee (here goes a religious
furor). Wahoo comes to mind. There was one built in Maine that was so
close to the Montauk that BW sued and won, and the boat was pulled off
the market. I forgot their name, but their hull liner was light tan. The
boat dealer almost across from Seabrook Station sold them for a while.

The Whaler hull was an extremely stable platform, executed in over-strong
sandwich construction, with weather-resistant hardware and fittings. No
nonsense. Everybody bitched because the battery and gas tank was out in
the open; but it was easy to swing the tank up to the pier, and easy to
work on the battery. I think about this now, when I'm laying on the deck
of my boat with both arms buried in the battery compartment that was an
improvement over the out-in-the-open BW design. (?)

I bought my Montauk in 1980, sold it in 1984 FOR WHAT I PAID. That is a
powerful, powerful benefit of owning a Whaler, and none of the detractors
can dispute it. Look at the used boat listings, and you'll see many
Montauks for sale for 11,500 or thereabouts. They'll get the price, and
it's about what they paid. Other labels depreciate like used cars.

Stable? I remember having three adult males on the same side of the
Montauk, all working bluefish (and boating them) at the same time. My
Whaler was rough-riding and wet, but I absolutely, totally believe it
would have take me home in ANY weather/sea state. And it was free.

Art

RE: 27.26 
>> There was one built in Maine that was so close to the Montauk that 
>> BW sued and won, and the boat was pulled off the market. I forgot 
>> their name, but their hull liner was light tan. 

Probably "Maine Mariner".  I know a guy who has one and it's a 
Whaler clone.

Rick

re: -.1 Maine Mariner - that's the one. The dealer was Driscoll's.

I realized that I didn't explain why I mentioned the McKee; it was, at
14', perhaps a bit MORE stable than my 17' Montauk. Read that, at rest or
trolling speed it stayed flat regardless of what we did in the boat. That
hull consisted of three nearly equal hull sections (viewed from the bow).
The Montauk had a much deeper center section (viewed from the bow) than
the outer {what are they called - sponsons?} sections.

I always thought that the McKee might make a good dive boat, if I was a
diver. Why? Because someone could go over the side or climb aboard over
the side without the boat listing dramatically. But then, the larger (in
my case) Montauk would be fine, also, because of the extra beam and
length.

RE: .26,

>>>  (_That_ stability is no longer there, in the vee-ed out new models
>>>  that have been produced since BW was sold and moved to Florida.)

I wasn't aware they'd been sold, but that's certainly possible.  They are, 
however, still making them at the original factory site in Rockland, MA --
you can call MA information & get the number, and speak to the head of
production.  He's not in Florida unless he's on vacation! 

;-),  J.

    I believe they are in both locations. The newer facility was built
    recently (past few years) in Florida. Most of the new models are built
    there. 

    This month's Trailer Boats said that Reebok International owns Boston
    Whaler.  Is that true?
    Wayne

    As the proud owner of a '64 13-foot Whaler I'm curious to find out a
    little about it.   There's no information plate in the boat so I don't 
    even really know what hp the boat is rated for.
    
    The seats, side panels, and console are mahogany.  There is also a
    front storage compartment with a mahogany lid.  At the bottom of that
    compartment is the only number we could find on the boat, and I would
    assume that that's the serial number.
    
    The steering is cable and pulleys and still works quite well.  The
    boat is that same that the boys on "Flipper" ride around in, except
    that it has a console and a steering wheel, instead of steering from
    the stern.
    
    I'll probably call Whaler to try and hunt down some parts I need, but I
    was just curious if someone knew offhand which model it was?
    
    -Stevie D

    	What you have is a standard 13ft. Sport Model.  I can give you some 
    specs on todays version, which may not be exact for one that old
    because of changes in the hull around the transom and the bow.  This
    could mean a little less floatation, etc.  This is from the 91 catalog:
    
    	L.O.A. - 13'4"
    	Beam -   5'5"
    	Draft -  6"
    	Weight - 360 lbs.
    	Max wt. Cap. - 1200 lbs.
    	Swamped Cap. - 1600 lbs. (What it will float when full of water)
    	Persons Cap. - 6
    	Max HP - 40
    	Min HP - 9 (Min to plane with a light load)
    	Shaft Length - 20" (Careful! I think older ones were 15")
    
    I'd still call Whaler for exact specs however.  You should be able to
    get at least an owners manual and a print showing where all plywood
    inserts are in the hull.  617-871-1400.  Hope this helps you out.
    
    					B.C.
                                             

    Thanks for the quick reply.  I'm glad the rated hp is 40, as I want to
    use the boat on Quabbin where you can only have half the rated hp, or a
    max of 20hp, whichever is the lowest.  I have a 20hp Merc so I'm ok.
    
    I called customer service at Whaler but they're all in Florida till
    next week.  If I could get an owner's manual that would be great!
    
    Thanks again,
    
    -Stevie D