Conference vicki::boats

    Ed,
    
    I don't have first hand experience with Stingray yet, but I pick
    up my new 17' bowrider May 1.
    
    Stingray is about 10 years old from down south (Tenn/SC. area).
    So far they have resisted in being bought out by the big guys.
    There product lineis small with perhaps 6 or 7 different hulls
    and then some variations on most of the larger size hulls, bowriders,
    cuddys and sport boats.
    
    When i started looking for a new boat last fall (see note 94) I
    asked and received a lot of useful advice in these notes files.
    Sometimes it takes a while, but hang in there.
    
    Trailer boat magazine did a limited article on the 17' Stingray
    last year and basically they were very high on Stingray.
    
    I talked to a lot of people, did a lot of reading and went to most
    of the boat shows. In my mind there are three levels of boats in
    this size, based on quality, workmanship and reputation (whether
    deserved or not). I put Bayliner and Maxim in the bottom category
    (remember this is my personal opinion, don't yell at me), Stingray,
    Larson and some others in the middle and Searay in the top.
    
    The difference in $ between the top and bottom could be dramatic,
    but between the middle and top was only a few hundred $.
    
    Basically, I think they are a good boat, better than some, but
    certainly not THe best.
    
    The key is of course buying used. I don't have to tell you to be
    careful and even a brand with a good reputation can become a piece
    of s#&* in the wrong hands.
    
    Happy hunting
    
    Jim

    Hi Ed, 
    
    I don't have a Stingray myself, but my neighbor does. It's a 17'
    bowrider with a 130/140 H.P. I/O. From what we have discussed the
    only big problem he has is the "lack of power". The boats looks
    and rides real nice.

    Hi Ed,
    
    We have had our Stingray now for a year, it is a 1988, 19.3 ft Cuddy
    Cabin with 165 HP I/O.  We have used the boat in different conditions
    and locations, Buzzards Bay, Narragansetts Bay and Sebago lake.  It
    handels very well and we haven't had any problems.  We had a great
    time last year and we are looking forward to an enjoyable and safe
    boating summer, we just put the boat in the water Sunday.

    We have a 1985 19 ft stingray cuddy with a 140hp Mercruser. Wehave
    had it for 3 years and primarily use it in Winnipausaukie(don't
    trust) my spelling) its been a great pleasure boat and just the
    right size and power for skiing. It's small enough to tow behind
    most full size cars and I would recommend it.If you want more info
    please call me Dtn 223-7018.
    
    John
    

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Note 729.0                 Talk To ME Stingray Owners                  4 replies
FSHQA2::HWYDOM                                       17 lines  31-JUL-1990 16:21
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    Have what is probably a super opportunity to get a great deal on a 1987
    Stingray 21 ft Cuddy, 260 HP I/O, loaded with accessories, galvanized
    trailor, etc., ie; the whole package.  The boat has been used a total
    of 20+ hours, and hasn't seen the water since 1987.  Owner even willing
    to discuss taking my 19 ft Slick Craft +$$.
    
    Obviously I'm interested. and will be exploring details in the near
    future.  However, I'd really like some opinions on Stingrays, ie;
    quality, comfort, overall satisfaction, etc.  Also would be interested
    in how they hold their value.
    
    Any Stingray owners out there willing to share their experience? 
    Haven't gone through all the notes, and didn't see any obvious
    keywords.  Is this info already available somewhere in this file?
    
    Thanks
    Herb 

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Note 729.2                 Talk To ME Stingray Owners                     2 of 4
WILLEE::DALTON                                       17 lines   1-AUG-1990 10:43
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    Herb,
    
    You will see a note in 343 from me.
    
    I have an 89 17' Stingray and am on my second summer. I am very
    happy with the boat, both performance (165hp) and quality. As I
    stated in 343, I consider Stingray to be in the middle of the 
    pact in the quality area. I have had no problems in two summers
    and have been looking (dreaming) of going bigger. Stingray is the
    first brand I have looked at.
    
    Not sure how they hold their value as yet, but try the WANT AD for
    prices on second hand Stingrays. There is probably a few. I think
    the model you are looking at is still produced. Price a new one
    and compare to the one you are looking at.
    
    Jim

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Note 729.3                 Talk To ME Stingray Owners                     3 of 4
AIMHI::SJOHNSON                                      15 lines   1-AUG-1990 16:53
                             -< Our experience... >-
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    My Parents just bought a new 17' Stingray - bowrider.  It is a very
    nice boat however...  The bow has a real hard time staying down upon
    take off - we are considering getting a doel-fin to stabilize this
    situation.  Also, the speedometer & tachometer are reversed on the
    dash.  Other than those 2 things being weird - they seem to be ok.
    My father is also having other problems w/ the boat but we believe
    those are related to him hitting a rock resently.  An oil leak is
    questionable.
    
    Friends of ours have a 21 or 21' Stingray that they sware by - they
    want to trade-up to a larger one.  So it's all a matter of preference.
    
    My advise is to make sure you test drive it first.
    
    

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Note 729.4                 Talk To ME Stingray Owners                     4 of 4
CSMET2::CHACE "it IS warmer!"                        23 lines   2-AUG-1990 08:50
                               -< rocks - ugh! >-
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      HUH?
    
    	Bow goes high during takeoff? How high is high? Has there been
    a few people sitting in the rear each time? Has the trim been adjusted
    so that it's all the way down?
      In smaller boats, where people sit has a much greater affect.
    The trim position of the motor will also have a great affect. A
    Doel-Fin will keep the bow lower during takeoff, and it will usually
    help the boat to plane at a lower speed (hey, maybe *that's* what
    I need, Rick!)
    
       Speedo and Tach reversed?????   I didn't know there was a standard
    as to the positioning of these?! :^)  The both use the same size
    hole, if you don't like where they are now - move them! It should
    only take about 15 min.
    
       Every boat acts a little different. To say a boat is bad because
    the bow goes higher than you think it should, and cause the speedo
    and tach aren't arranged the way you'd like, is hardly a reason
    to fault a boat. Many times, it is the new OWNER that must determine
    how to handle the new boat!
    
    					Kenny

    As for the bow not coming down.  The trim is all the way down w/ one
    adult in the passager seat.  It goes up so high - that I myself being
    5'3" can not see standing up.  A hazardous high!  If it's windy -
    forget it!!!  We now put 1-2 people in the bow.
    
    You're right that the gages could be swapped and they will be.  I'm
    just voicing the concerns that "we" have not everyone.  With the
    exception of these 2 things - really only 1 - the boat is fine.  I get
    frustrated w/ the gauges as we have our own boat that I also constantly
    drive for skiing purposes and it's very frustrating to try to remember
    which gauge to look at.
    
    Again, these are our experiences w/ this boat.  I would want people to
    be upfront w/ me if I were buying also.
    
    

    
    	To help correct the high bow problem, sounds like you have a to
    steep of a pitch prop on. It takes to long to plane off, a prop
    that that has a less of a pitch will plane out faster. 
    
    example: I have a 205 4WINNS cuddy, the correct match for me is a
    15 x 16" pitch prop, I can get to a plane fairly fast with 2-3 person.
    A 18-20 pitch prop will give me a faster top speed, but getting out
    of the hole will be slower.
    A 15 x 15 is ok but my RPM's is 4900 and should be 4600, so you need
    to be sure not to over rev the engine.
    
    	my .02
    
    		Mike

    My first year with my 17 foot Stingray I was not real happy with
    how much the bow came out of the water. It was not real bad, but
    it was more than I wanted.
    
    This summer I put a Stingray (get it!!) on the outdrive (similar
    to doel-fin) and the situation is completely gone.
    
    Cheap money ($50+ -) to solve something I was not happy with.
    Worst case is to take it off and sell it in the notes file.

    We have a 1990 Stingray 536ZP 17.5' Bowrider with a MerCruiser 175 HP
    I/O. We really like the boat - handles great, good out of the hole
    performance (I'm 6'1' 205lbs and get up no problem), does about 53 MPH,
    and overall feels solid in the water no matter what the conditions. We
    use the boat exclusively on Thompson Lake in Otisfield ME, so I
    couldn't say if Id feel that way with 6' swells in Casco Bay :^)
    
    We have had a *lot* of problems with the boat, some my fault (hit a
    submerged rock and lost the outdrive), and some not - starter won't
    work, tilt and trim control freezes in one position and won't move, 
    gauges not working, radio half-working, bow rail coming off (twice),
    and a variety of blown fuses. 
     
    I've been half kidding that our mechanic has custody of the boat and we 
    get occasional visitation rights but it really has been a real hassle
    even though most everything's under warranty and the dealer's been
    pretty good about getting it back in time for the weekend. BTW: now I've
    been told that the engine's been recalled due to a problem in the oil
    pan which can result in oil leakage - great.
    
    I don't want to discourage you from buying a Stingray though, it really
    is a great boat (when it works) and I believe that most of the problems
    are more with our particular engine (and sometimes driver) and I don't 
    hold the boat manfacturer responsible for that. It's an all around great 
    boat for cruising, skiing, fishing, whatever, and its well appointed and 
    laid out on interior design.
    
    My only complaint, performance wise, is shared by many Stingray owners
    that responded - the bow really does come up more than your average
    boat on acceleration (although it was more of a problem when the tilt
    and trim wasn't getting the engine down all the way!). I asked the
    dealer about a doel fin but he just shook his head and claimed I
    shouldn't need it. I think though, I'm going to go for it next year. Even if
    I lose a few MPH off the top end, 50 MPH is more than I need for
    skiing, and I would like to sit down once and a while when I start up!
    
    Bill

    Any other new opinions on stingray boats?

    I am considering buying a new Stingray 658zp (21.5').  I have owned 3
    boats before so I have a good idea what I want and need (need!!??). 
    The one I am looking at has a "350 mag" Mercruser, 270 HP @ the crank. 
    I am planning on doing some skiing and cruising.

    I am aware that Stingray is not top quality, but the Formula and Donzi
    is not in my price range.  The previous note voiced some valid
    concerns, but some of the problems sounded like Mercruser problems, not
    stingray problems.  

    This 'bow rise' question concerns me though.  Is this more prominent in
    the 17' Stingrays, or perhaps any of the smaller boats with I/Os?  If I
    decide to go with the Stingray, should I order it with trim tabs?  The
    dealer said tabs shouldn't be necessary.

    Another question I have is concerning the "Z Plane" hull design.  The
    dealer says that it "feels like the boat is on rails".  What he means
    is that it handles well in the curves with less side slide.  I wonder
    how this hull design handles in rough water (2'-3' chop).  The hull is
    of a step design, so as to permit a Larger X dimension and yield more
    speed.  Could this effect this "bow rise".   I wonder if this boat
    would tend toward wobble of chine walk problems?

    If anyone has any firsthand experience with any of these items, I would
    appreciate hearing from them.
    
    Thanks,
    Matt

    Matt, a guy who used to work here bought a 21+ foot Stingray with the
    260 horse I/O a couple of years ago.  I don't remember the model name
    but I believe it was a cuddy cabin.  He keeps it on Lake Winni where it
    get's pretty rough.  He really likes it. His father has a house on Winni
    so they have plenty of prior boating experience to base their opinions
    on.  If I was laying out that kind of cash, I would insist on a test
    drive.  Maybe even come back a week later and ask for a second one
    because you weren't sure.
    
    Wish I had your problem
    Wayne

RE: .13 
>> I am aware that Stingray is not top quality, but the Formula and Donzi
>> is not in my price range.

There's certainly no shame in buying a Stingray!  They may not rank up
there with Formula, Checkmate, Cobalt or some of the other premier lines,
but they're not exactly entry level low priced boats either.

By the way, in my opinion the Donzi also is not up there with Formula,
Checkmate, or Cobalt.  A lot of their reputation is based on ancient
history.  Last year I had the chance to compare a 22' Checkmate and a
23' Donzi in the showroom at Siver Sands Marina.  There was no comparison,
the quality of the Checkmate was the hands down winner in places like
engine compartment installation, gelcoat (molded in graphics too), 
upholstery, gelcoated underside of the engine hatch compared to rough
fiberglass mat on the Donzi, etc.  Everywhere we looked the Checkmate 
looked better.

So much for reputations...

Rick

    This might not belong here but anyway..I have some friends who are
    heavy into boating going ons in the high performance area...I am told
    Donzi is closing two of their 3 plants and integrating with Chris-
    Craft (both now have the same  owners)..They will be seperate marks
    but will share engineering and some assembly..

    
    As for handling, I think the boat performs exceptionally well,
    including rough water handling. There's virtually no slide-slip
    and the boat has a true and solid feel to it. The "bow rise problem"
    was solved nicely by the introduction of a doel fin. Dealer swore
    up and down I didn't need it but the boat comes up on plane almost
    instantly now and I don't get a look at the cloud cover in the process.
    
    The engine however, is another story entirely. They took it out of
    storage and found the carbeurator (sp) needed replacement (luckily
    it was still under the 1 year warranty) and there were a few
    (relatively) minor other problems involving the starter (again).
    
     As I said before, the boat itself is a real joy to be in - I just
    seem to be having more than my share of problems with the engine.
    
    Bill
    

    RE .17
    
    What did the Doel Fin do to your top end?
    
    Thanks,
    Matt

re                      <<< Note 343.17 by DELNI::B_DONOVAN >>>
>                  -< I'd buy it again - but bring some oars! >-
    
>    The engine however, is another story entirely. They took it out of
>    storage and found the carbeurator (sp) needed replacement (luckily
>    it was still under the 1 year warranty) and there were a few

	This sounds fishy to me.  I don't understand how a carb can
"go bad"  in storage to the point that it needs to be replaced - 
unless it was filled with water and it froze and split.  Maybe a bit 
gummy, but that can be cleaned out......

	R

    I'm not sure about the top-end yet as I haven't had a chance to open
    it up and trim it out. It was pretty choppy the only day I took it out 
    and I just wanted to ski in the limited amount of time I had to use it.
    I may have another chance this weekend, and I'll let you know how it
    goes.
    
    As for the carb, he told me he discovered it was flooding the engine
    as he was checking it out after storage. Said he tried to fix it but
    wasn't having much success and since it was under warranty, he decided he 
    might as well replace it. Fine by me - just that it took them almost 2 
    weeks to find a replacement and get it in the water. 
     
    Bill

    We put a doel-fin on a 17' Stingray.  The top-end speed didn't change.
    I like Stingray's too.

    The doel fin or the stingray are intended to help you get out of the
    hole faster by creating greater lift and thus faster plaining it also
    saves on some fuel for the same reason.

Just an update...

I sold my Wellcraft and bought new the 21.5' Stingray I described in .13.  Have
logged lots of hours since taking delivery last fall.  

It's a great multi purpose boat that is good for recrational skiing, knee 
boarding (moderate sized wake = catch max air), and has a top end of close to
65MPH.

Quality wise, I am, for the most part, very satisfied, and feel that Stingray 
is a good value. 

Matt