Conference vicki::boats

    
    Hi,
         Try Note # 72 it talks about buying.....don't have any specifics
         on those models.  Good Luck and welcome.
    
    Steve G. of the Venture To
    
    
    

      Re .0
    
    If you can hold off till after Labor day, I think you'd strike a better
    buy. Also if you plan on doing water skiing, go for some more horsies
    if you can afford to, you won't regret it, you'll regret not getting
    the more horse power after a few times out skiing with a few people
    in the boat, trust me!!?
    
                                           Jeff

    I am also looking at new boats and based on the information I gathered
    and out of the 2 makes that you named I would buy a Stingway. However,
    if you plan to water SKI I would suggest you consider thinking about
    more horsepower, like something in the area of a 165 hp or better. 
    Along with this, for Milage I would suggest getting an I/O. If you are 
    not in a hurry Like I am, wait until the up and coming boat shows that 
    occur every year, they have great deals. Thats what I am waiting for.
                                                               
    Regards.
    

    
       You want advice?  DON'T BUY A BOAT!
    
       You seem like an intelligent person. Why would you want to do
    such a foolish thing? They bring nothing but headaches, aggravation,
    and an unending stream of bills.
    
       Oh sure, you'll have some fun with the boat, maybe do some water
    skiing, a little fishing, go swimming in some out-of-the-way places,
    and just plain cruising around. And maybe you'll take the boat to
    some new places and discover some great restaurants (more bills) or
    meet some really nice people.
    
       But don't forget the bills, or waiting on line at the launching
    ramp, and cursing at the a****les who don't know what they're doing
    on the water. And then you'll start cursing at yourself for buying
    the stupid thing and you'll think about selling it or trading up
    to a larger one (both those thoughts seem to happen at the same
    time, I don't know why). Especially when you don't get a chance
    to use the boat in .. oh... say three weeks and find all sort of
    problems have occurred and have to spend more money to correct things.
    
       When that happens you'll probably think about the good times
    you had with it. You know, like the time you anchored in the harbor
    on the Fourth of July and watched the fireworks from the water,
    and the time you rafted up with friends "just for lunch" and end
    up spending the whole evening on the boat.
    
       Trust me, you don't want to buy a boat. Too many conflicting
    feelings are bad for your mental stability.
    
    
    Frank
    :-)
    
    
       P.S. - I have a Larson with the Delta-Conic hull and a 200 hp I/O.
    Other than some minor cosmetic failures, I haven't had any reason
    to complain about the boat itself (well, it is underpowered but
    that's was my mistake when I bought it). The hull is incredibly
    dry and the design makes it very stable as well. Highly recommended
    if you really decide to buy a boat.
   

    
    Re: .4
    
    	Great reply Frank... Owning a boat does tend to be a love-hate
    relationship... But fortunately we love 'em more than we hate 'em!
    
    	On a more serious note.... I highly recommend a late model,
    if not NEW boat when buying. Older boats can be very troublesome.
    
    Rick

    re: .5
    
    make that very, very trouble-some if you don't check it out well
    before you buy. However, if you a first time boater it might be
    a better learning experience. Who wants to ram their brand-new
    boat into the docks the first time out. Better stick with a late
    model boat.

    I agree with the philosophy of buying either a new boat or something
    less than a couple of years old.  This past summer I became a new
    boater and when I was shopping for a boat I looked at a lot of older
    used boats.  I am sure that there are some very good deals to be
    found in older used boats but based on the junk that I looked at
    they must be very very uncommon.
    
    I don't necessarily agree with the thoughts about avoiding a new
    boat if this will be your first because you may damage it.  My
    experience and the experiences of those that we boat with is that
    by using a little common sense, one should be able to avoid significant
    self inflicted damage.  My biggest fear when on the lake is not
    so much my personally doing something to damage my boat but rather
    the possibility of someone else in a moment of carelessness doing
    minor or major damage to the boat.  
    
    Regards

    RE: .4
    
    Gee Frank, you :-) could've :-) included :-) a :-) few :-) more :-)
    smiley :-) faces :-) in :-) your :-) note!  I was getting worried
    for a few minutes there!  Glad to see that ":-)" at the end...
    
    What's that old definition?  "BOAT:  A hole in the water into which
    you pour money, time, ..."  But 'tis true, we love 'em more than
    we hate 'em!
    
    					...Roger...

    
    	RE.4
    
    	Frank, you had me worried there for a minute.  I plan looking
    around for a new boat this winter and at the same time try to get
    a good deal! :-)  Does anyone know if the MERCRUISER I/O is a good
    engine? Also does anyone know how fast a 165 hp can go on a 17ft
    boat with a load (3 people)???? I'm trying to determine how many
    horsies I will need.
    
    
    		Thanks to all for all your advise you have given me.

    re .9
    
    	The speed of a 17 ft boat with a 165 HP I/O depends on a few
    things - ie. hull design, weight, prop pitch/type, load in boat,
    etc... But as a general rule look for a top speed from between 45
    and 55 MPH. Now that just covers top speed, for skiing you will
    require a certain torque/out of the hole acceleration - and with
    the correct (correct, what a funny word - Rick :-) ) prop pitch
    you should have no problem. Look for a prop with a pitch 21 and
    below... You will get an aluminium prop standard from the factory
    that will let you do most of what you want...
    
    	If after some time you decide you would like a little more top
    speed or "out of the hole performance" then it will be time to start
    looking at those SS props - but be warned, these don't come cheap
    (ie. $250-300 and up..)
    
    	I was looking at a Larson the other day that had a 165 HP I/O
    on it, in the 17 ft range... To give you an idea on what type of
    performance you might get in that length boat and I/O. I have a
    17 ft Baja Sunsport running a 205 HP Mercruiser, and it runs 60+MPH
    with a 23 pitch Turbo II wheel... As Rick will tell you, this is
    not the way to go if your going to do a lot of skiing...but for
    top speed - she does fly...
    
    Good Luck
    						Co-Moderator
    						  -mike-
    
    Ps. Now that things are slowing down a bit around 
        here maybe I'll have a little more time to 
        write notes as well as read them... 

    Out of the two boats your looking at, go Stingray. I also am looking
    for a new boat and Stingray was one, but decided to go for the
    Celebrity. The power of the Stingray at 130 HP (I have a friend
    who has a 17FT with a 140HP(130HP used the new rating) and he has
    problems pulling one skier with people in the boat. Go with more
    power, I am (I'm after a 175HP). I'm sure gas consumption is going
    to be greater, but if you want the power you have to pay..
    
    Good Luck

    In reply to .9
    
    I have a 17' 4WINN bow rider with a 170 Merc.
    I have done 45 with two-four people on board.  The factors 
    are the time with a full throttle and the smoothness of the 
    water, and the tilt of the engine.
    
    I boat around Falmouth and it is very rare that I can open up fully,
    except in the ponds, because of the waves.

    I'm going to use this existing note to look for advice on a boat.
    
    I'm looking for some advice on the type, brand, cost,
    advantages/disadvantages of a boat that would be used for the
    following:
    
    The boat must be seaworthy.  It will be moored in North Falmouth
    (Buzzards Bay) and will be used for day trips around the Buzzards
    Bay area and probably down to the Vineyard.  The boat does not need
    to have sleeping or living accomadations.  It will probably hold
    up to 7-8 people max.  The boat will see some fishing action, probably
    some waterskiing, but mostly just "day boating".  A cuddy cabin
    or bowrider is likely.  The boat will be moored in a semiprotected
    area (anybody familiar with Nyes Neck in N. Falmouth).  A launch
    is available and I'd like to be able to pull the boat with my '72
    Caprice (400 cid V8).
    
    Questions:
    
    	What types of boats should I be looking at to accomplish the
    	things I've stated above? (design, length, etc.)
    
    	What am I looking at for price ranges?
    
    	Is it reasonable to keep a boat moored all summer in a
    	semiprotected area?
    
    	Is the car I have suitable for towing?  What needs to be done
    	to it?
    
    	Thanks in advance for any advice given.
    
    	Tim
    	

    Tim, I am still new to boating.  I don't have one yet - thank you
    very much $92/share DECstock.  In any case, I asked pretty much
    the same question that you did because I want a boat for Nantucket
    Sound and trips to Nantucket and the Vineyard myself.
    
    I got some good advice and I've spent a lot of time looking.  These
    are the conclusions I've come too:
    
    1. It isn't a pond.  The water can get rough unexpectedly.  An
    inexpensive 17' - 18' boat available as attractive priced package
    deals don't cut it in the big water.  Very uncomfortable, not a
    lot of margin for safety.  Speaking purely in terms of size of boat
    VS size of water here, not quality of the manufacturer.  Stick with
    a larger size, at least 20', better 22' to 24'.  This increases
    the price a lot, but used boats are an option allowing you to get
    more for your money. 
    
    2. Taking water over the bow when the seas build up unexpectedly
    means that a bow rider could take on a lot of water.  Stick with
    a traditional bow, which on a larger boat has a cuddy cabin.
    
    3. For a lot of people and day trips you want to maximize deck space.
    Stick with big "run abouts", regular boats.  Stay away from "cabin
    cruisers" or "offshore racing" style boats.  These regular boats
    also cost less than the fancier counterparts while, within a makers
    line, often offering the same hull.
    
    4. Big water wants big power.  Can't make a blanket recommendation
    for engine size, because so the are so many variables, but in a
    boat this size I'd stick with V8 power in an I/O arrangement.
    
    One way to keep the price down is to look for good, simple boats rather
    than fancy top-of-the-line models.  Not everyone *needs* a Formula,
    Wellcraft, or Bertram.  Three examples of the type and style of boat I
    am talking about are: 1., the biggest Stingray cuddy cabin (sorry
    forgot the model number) which is between 20' and 21'. I remember a
    boatshow price around $16K with options; 2., the Imperial VC230 between
    $17 and $20K, and the Carrera line of Thompsons that include 20', 22',
    and 24' models.  The Imperial and 22' and 24' Thompsons have a good
    amount of deck space to accomdate a lot of people.  All these boats
    could be classified as family models, with nice appearance and good
    seating capacity rather than sport or fishing models which have other
    priorities.  They also have good free board, height of gunwale above
    the water, to help  keep any kiddies on board.
    
    Your car could be a very good one to two with. It's big, has a real
    frame to attach a hitch to, and good size motor.  But it may have
    to be modified to increase the cooling capacity of the engine and
    transmission if it wasn't originally equiped with a trailer towing
    package.  Age is it's biggest enemy. Towing puts a lot of stress
    on a car, and 17 year old parts that stay together now, may break
    under the new strain.  If the radiator is old it may have many clogged
    passages that restrict it's cooling capacity, even if it was enough
    when new.  You may have to spend a lot of money to make the car
    serviceable - based on it's age - but after that it could be better
    than almost any new car for towing.
    
    my thoughts
    
    john

    
    I went through the Singray/Larson comparison an ended up with a
    Stingray SVB-170 (17'3") bow rider.  We (family of 4) love it.
    I really can't compare it to a Larson.  Hull construction on these
    boats seemed to be equal quality (quality=average, but perfectly
    capable of taking a reasonable pounding).  
    
    At the time I chose the Stingray for the following reasons (which
    were valid back in 1884):
    
    a. I thought the Stingray was more spacious in the bow and had a
       lot more storage than the Larson.
    b. The Stingray hull that year was much deeper than the Larson.
       This gives you more freeboard (sides are higher above the
       water line).  This can make a big difference if your in the 
       ocean and it gets rough.  I've been through some rough water
       but i've never felt unsafe.
    c. The quality of the uppostery (sp?) in the Stingray was far superior
       at the time to that of the Larson.  I assumend that meant better
       quality in other areas also but couldn't say one way or the other.
    d. The worst thing I could say about the Larson was that it was
       at Doug Russells (I hate them there)!
    
    I also wrestled with the outboard vs I/O decision.  There's plenty
    of info around on the pros/cons of that choice.  I ended up with
    a 90HP Merc Outboard (if I we're doing it over again I honestly
    don't know if I'd go Outboard or I/O, there are advantages to both).
    I will tell you I'll never, ever, ever, ever buy another Merc outboard
    but that's another story.
    
    With my 90HP outboard on the Stingray I can top out at 38-42mph
    with 4 people, a dog, and 18 gals of gas.  I'm plenty happy with
    that.  We Ski, and tow all kinds of junk with no problem.  I/O's
    perform differently and I think you'll have to have more than 120HP
    in an I/O to out perform a 90HP outboard configuration (my opinion).
    I think a 140 in a 17' Stingray is a very good setup and probably
    less of a gas guzzler than mine.
    
    I've met a lot of Stingray owners on the water and they all seem
    happy with their boats.  Don't know where your located but if you
    decide on a Stingray, give a call to South Attleboro Marine and
    check out his prices.  The owner is Al, who's a real turkey but he
    cuts some great deals.  When I bought mine he was about $2500 less
    than Gauch and prowd of it!
    
    Good luck.
    
    Frank