Conference vicki::boats

re .0:

>>>	- any general comments on inflatable boats? I've never been
>>>	  in one with a motor

Trying to row one is an exercise in futility. They power well but are 
wet.

>>>	- I'm concerned about fishing hooks & dog claws puncturing air chambers;
>>>	  just how tough are these things?

Tough enough to withstand dog claws and rocky beaches. Fishhooks will 
puncture them.

>>>	- are there other marinas or brands that may have a similar inflatable
>>>	  boat for under $1000?

You get what you pay for. Avons are very expensive, but are generally 
considered to be the best and longest lasting inflatables. Other brands 
(eg, Zodiac, Achilles) are cheaper and lower quality. You can get a hard 
transom 10' Zodiac for about $750 (bottom of the line), a 10' Achilles
for $1000, and a 10' Avon Rover for $1250. 

RE: 67.0  

>>  - must be stable with 3 people (wife & 1 year old son) and maybe
>>    2 dogs (I may be dreaming here; dogs may be a real pain in boat)
>>  - must be car toppable in/on Ford Taurus wagon; means 10' LOA max?
>>    (I'm trying to avoid trailer for now since I plan to buy a 4wd 
>>    utility vehicle in 3 years - I'll be putting a hitch on that for next
>>    larger boat)
>>  - no need for real speed; happy with max 15-20 mph cruising
	
Dave,
Unfortunately you're asking WAY too much of a 10 foot boat with your intended 
use. If you put 3 people and 2 dogs in a 10' boat you would literally be on top
of each other. I have serious doubts about whether a 1 year old should even be
in a boat, but definitely not in a boat that small at 15-20 mph. And 15-20 mph
in a 10' boat IS real speed. The first wave would send you all flying in diffe-
rent directions.

Also, an inflatable or car topper may sound ok now, but after a day on the water
the last thing you want to do is unload everything from the boat and heave it
on the roof or deflate and repack it. A brand new trailer for a boat less than
14' can be had for under $400.

Another suggestion would be to look around for a used boat in the 14-16 foot
range with a 40 to 70 hp motor. It would be much more capable of carrying your
family safely, and if you buy right and maintain it well you should be able to
get your money back when you trade up.

Good luck,
Rick Wilson

    I have a 10' Livingston that I use as my cartop.  It will, and has,
    carried 4 adults with fishing tackle in a lot of lakes and the bays
    out here.(Pacific)  It is powered by my "kicker" motor from my big
    boat - a 10 hp Honda.  It can be loaded and unloaded by one man,
    even with a sore back.  I don't recommend the speed you are talking
    about, but I have cruised with it wide open though only with two
    people in it.  Another advantage to it's design (twin hull) is that
    an adult can stand on the gunwale and not tip it.  I paid $675 for
    it used.  

    Boat/US, located out in Waltham, MA (and various other sites in
    the US) lists their 10'7 4/5 person "SEAWORHTY" inflatable w/a
    Nissan 8 h.p. @$1649.00.  The boat has a capacity of 1,080 lbs,
    five year warranty on fabric and seams, one year on the rest.  I
    believe the Nissan has a 2 year warranty.  Alone the Nissan 8 through
    them sells for $1035.00. The boat alone is $735.00.
    Boat/US requires you be a member before you can buy anything from
    them, but the $17.00 yearly membership pays for itself many times
    over in a multitude of benefits.
    Friends who use inflatables for diving swear by them, but I'd be
    cautious if fishing is the primary motivation.
    

    re: speed of 15-20 mph
    
    Scratch that - I have a real poor sense of distance & speed; I was
    just thinking 15-20 in a car seems pretty slow; I would agree
    that 15-20 mph in a 10' boat would be hairy. Let's just say I would
    like to move a little faster than paddling speed at times.
    
    re: fishing
    
    The more folks I talk to the more wary I am of hooking an inflatable.
    Perhaps something fiberglass would be more appropriate - I'm open
    to suggestions on particular makes.
    
    re: dogs & kids
    
    I think the smart thing to do on my part would be to either bring
    the kid or the dogs but not both at the same time. Actually it remains
    to be seen how a 1 year old will be in a boat - may not be content
    with sitting too long. 
    
    re: larger boat w/trailer
    
    Hopefully 3 years from now when I buy a better tow vehicle. I'm just 
    looking for something inexpensive and easy to haul in the interim.

    thanks for advice so far
    - Dave

    I have an Achilles, about 10 feet, which I mostly use as a tender
    for my cruiser, but have also used independently. It has some major
    advantages. It can be easily carried and launched in spots where
    no formal launching facilities exist; some of the most beautiful
    boat rides I have ever taken were the result. It can also hold much
    more weight than a similar size hard boat, which is important to
    someone like me who is hefty to start with and now has kids who
    are even heftier. 
    
    However, I don't recommend Achilles. It is the only Japanese product
    I ever bought with a serious manufacturing defect- an obviously
    screwed up seam that turned into a serious leak. 
                                             TOM

    Dave,
    If trailering is an issue, an aluminum boat may be a good choice
    to consider.  It also takes less hp to push an aluminum vs a fiberglass
    of the same length and load capacity.  Aluminum is more noisey,
    and it may be colder to the touch when in the water.  It may be
    difficult though to find a 17 -18 ft used aluminum.  They seem to
    get grabbed by fisherman who realize the above two facts mentioned.
    Carlo

    Dave,
    I agree with the Aluminum suggestion! I would NOT take the chance
    of putting my wife and a 1 year old in an inflatable!! It might
    be worth the wait to get a 14' or 16' aluminum 3 years from now
    than suffer the grief of an accident!!!!
    Please don't subject yourself and  your family to that risk!!
    
    Don

    Re: .9
    
    When you go white water rafting they use inflatables not aluminun !
    
    Inflatables generally are as safe a hard dinghy since they have
    either 3 or 4 air chambers. The probability is that you won't rip
    out more than one chamber at any time despite what you may hit,
    so you always have enough floatation.
    
    The main drawbacks of inflatables is (as has been said before);
    
      a) They are so low to the water (i.e. 14'') and with rounded sides
         that they are very wet. The smallest wave always seems to be
         able to ship some water over the top of the tubes. Dodgers
         help (and I would suggest getting one) but can't protect you
         from a wake hitting you abeam.
    
      b) They don't row worth @#$%. Basically you can get one of two
         styles. The tender which looks like a raft and has a flat bottom
         and no directionl stability; or the sport boat which has an
         inflatable keel. The sport boats have better directional stability
         but are so low in mass that they don't have much momentum to
         carry you during feathering.
    
      c) Even if you get the floor boards the bottom is still fairly
         flexible.
    
    But on the positive side
    
      a) The deflate into a suitcase sized package which means that
         you can stow them pretty easily.
    
      b) They are pretty light if you have to man handle it into the
         water.
    
    /jim

    i've read up to and including reply no. 6, and i'm convinced that
    up to this point no-one has one or has really used one. last year
    i bought an achilles 11 ft. put an 8 hp yamaha on it. i've had
    many dinghies in the past, and i will never have another glass
    one. they are unstable and clumsy.
    
    with the inflatable i have the ultimate in stablilty, it goes like
    hell, gets right up on top of 1-2 ft. swells, and is the safest
    of all tenders around.
    
    if you need to take 2 adults and your 1 year old, they will be 
    more comfortable in the inflatable.  ask someone who owns a 
    glass dinghy, when was the last time they boarded it by standing
    on one of the sides, or rode in it by sitting on the edge.
    
    as for fishing, i use my inflatable every weekend, the fish hook
    story is b.s. when i bought it they had a demo piece on a bench.
    
    the demo consists of trying to put a marlin spike thru the inflated
    sample. can't be done. i've beached it, gone up on the rocks,
    dragged it, i slide it over the transom of the larger boat to 
    launch it, what else do you want.
    
    i'd get a achilles or avon, the rest havn't caught up yet.
    
    jim.

re .11:

>>>    i've read up to and including reply no. 6, and i'm convinced that
>>>    up to this point no-one has one or has really used one. 

Wrong. I own an 8' Avon Redcrest (reply .1). 

>>>    i've had many dinghies in the past, and i will never have 
>>>    another glass one. they are unstable and clumsy.
    
Some rigid dinghies are unstable and clumsy, some are not. While an 
inflatable dingly powers well, it is virtually impossible to row in a 
flat calm and cannot be rowed in a chop. Without power, they drift in 
the wind and current with considerable speed. 

>>>    with the inflatable i have the ultimate in stablilty, it goes like
>>>    hell, gets right up on top of 1-2 ft. swells, and is the safest
>>>    of all tenders around.

Safest? Depends on your definition of safety. If the engine on your 
inflatable fails some distance from shore and there is any breeze or 
chop, you are in serious trouble with an offshore wind. A well-designed 
hard dinghy can be rowed to shore in similar conditions without much 
trouble. 

>>>    ask someone who owns a glass dinghy, when was the last time 
>>>    they boarded it by standing on one of the sides, or rode in 
>>>    it by sitting on the edge.
    
I wouldn't consider riding on the side of any dinghy safe. 
    
>>>    the demo consists of trying to put a marlin spike thru the inflated
>>>    sample. can't be done. 

The marlin spikes I'm familiar with are rather blunt pointed tools for 
undoing knots, etc. A fish hook is much, much sharper. I'm not about to 
try puncturing my Avon with fish hook, but I'm sure I could do it.    

    Inflatables are the type of boat that you really love and hate.
    You'll love it because their fast when matched to the right motor,
    give you a real low profile to the water and draw next to nothing.
    I agree on the trailering note, its a real pain at the end of the
    day to break it down and it may be suitcase size but unless you
    have two people setting up and taking down you'll get real tired
    of it. I had a Campways Argonaut with 20 hp Merc. that I used for
    diving and fooling around. It was about 14ft and had an inflatable
    keel, wooden transom and floor boards, and 3 chambers (not including
    the keel). I wouldn't put dogs in it nor would I fish from it. Things
    that you want to look for are good sewn and welded seams, brass
    screw down air fittings with covers to keep the sand and dirt out,
    rub rail on the outside, 2 one way drain valves in the transom (it
    is a wet ride in rough water), good marine plywood floorboards with
    plywood stiffeners, the floorboards interlocks should be done with
    aluminum and a bow dodger to keep stuff dry. From a safety perspective
    its only as safe as you are. There great in rough water if you don't
    mind spray and with a minimum of 3 air chambers your not going to
    sink if you get a hole in it. Good luck.
    Ray

    in reply to .12
    
    the blunt object your referring to: i believe is a fid. it is used
    when backweaving line. a marlin spike has a very sharp point,
    very similar to a sewing needle. i also doubt that thru normal use
    you would be able to put a fish hook thru a high quality inflatable.
    you would have to hold the hook in your hand and intentinally
    force it thru. on the stablility issue, i have had 3 hard dinghies,
    1 wood and 2 glass. there is no doubt that the inflatable is 
    far advanced in stablility. as for ease of rowing, i find the
    inflatalbe much easier to row. the other is the safety factor,
    a glass dinghy has no self draining, limited horsepower ability,
    and will swamp, even though it has flotation.
    
    looking around, seems the glass dinghies are disappearing,
    
    "ancient technology"
    
    go inflatable...................
    
    jim.
    

    re .14	Jim,	the marlinspikes I used to splice big cables
                        for towing barges had a slightly flattened tip
    about 1/4" x 1/16" across, with a rounded, not sharp, edge.  this
    tapered over perhaps 14" to about a 1" to 1-1/2" base...
    
    It'd be hard to poke a hole in an inflatable with it.
    
    maybe the spikes you're referring to art the ones used to splice
    small stuff such as is used on recreational sailboats?

    J

    there are fids and marlinspikes.  again i believe your referring
     to a fid not a marlinspike.  a marlinspike is usually found on
    one end of a riggers knife. it has an extremely sharp point
    one the business end. most of the good marine catalogs still 
    advertise them as well as fids. 
    
    the demo i mentioned in my first reply, was with the use of a 
    marlin spike.
    
    are we clear on the differences ?
    
    jim.

    Now I've got one what do I do with it?? 
    
    I just bought a 12 ft Norlantic Inflatable and a 15 hp Eska outboard.
    The challange isthis. How do I tote the thing around on "Rainbow
    Chaser" ? She only has a 10 ft front deck and the dinghy is too
    heavy to trow up there anyway. I have a dive platform on the stern
    and her beam is 10 ft 3 inch.
    
    I'm designing all kinds of wierd hinges, davits, ect. Even thought
    of a marlin tower with a rack compartment to side the inflateable
    in, But again it is 130 lbs with out engine and all the extra junk
    that makes it work(Fuel, anchor,line,vests,ect) 
    
    Any Ideas?? I would like quick access to the dinghy as I do a lot
    of Diving.
                                     Walt
    

    I've seen a boat off of Harwich all summer with an inflatable attached
    to it.  It is flat up against the transom, with the interior of the
    inflatable forward and the bottom aft.  One side seemes to be resting
    on the swim platform, the other in the air, actually higher than the
    transom.  Probably uses the same kind of rigging you are think of.
    
    john 

    re .18
    
    	Yes, I've seen ads in Boating magazines for devices which secure
    inflatables to the transom. I don't know the cost, but you should
    be able to find such a device through a dealer or reading magazines..
    
    	Hope you'all out there are having a fun/safe summer...
    
    								-mike-

    re .16:	No, we don't seem to be clear at all.  You are referring
                to a tiny marlinspike that's part of a pocket knife.
     I am referring to a large marlinspike that's used in the merchant
    marine and military.
    				J

	As I recall (how can I forget) my Navy boot camp 'marlinspike
seamanship' classes, I must agree the large tool used for separating strands of
large line (hawser) is called a 'FID' and the smaller, more common, implement
used for the same purpose on smaller line is called a 'MARLINSPIKE'.  A FID has
a relatively blunt end, however a marlinspike is fairly sharp.... 

	I don't doubt that 'marlinspike' may be a more widely known term and
therefore incorrectly (I believe) used when referring to the larger tool more
specifically known as a 'fid'.  A recent Coast Guard Axilliary coarse I took
made no mention of the fid, but few of us in recreational boating use line
heavy enough to require a fid. 

	But what do I know, I only spent 9 years in the US Navy...


						Al

    Marlinspike- a tool (as of wood or iron) that tapers to a point
    and is used to separate strands of rope or wire (as in splicing)
    
    Fid- a pin usually of hard wood that tapers to a point and is used
    in opening the strands of a rope
    
    Not that I trust Webster's NCD too much for marine specifics, but
    it sounds as though we may be unscrewing the inscrutable.  

    I guess I have seen sharp fids and dull marlinspikes, and as long
    as I remember how to use it, I don't guess I'll spend too much more
    time or energy on the name...

    
    One more on marlinspikes and fids....
    
    I don't have my copy of Chapman or a similar reference to
    refer to page and paragraph, but... the references I
    remember agree on a difference between a marlinspike and
    a fid.  
    
    A FID - of whatever size - is made of wood, and tapers
    fairly sharply from the point to a rounded end.  FIDs
    are used to separate strands of rope.  (They are not usually
    seen in small size, as hand strength is enough to twist
    the rope open...)
    
    A MARLINSPIKE is made of metal, and tapers very gradually
    from the point to back end.  MARLINSPIKES are used to 
    separate strands of wire rope (also called cable).  (You
    wouldn't use a wooden FID on wire rope fro two reasons - 
    the wood would get torn up quickly, and the taper is too steep
    toopen strands properly.)
    
    Yes, you do sometimes see people using metal marlinspikes
    (I have one of those folding knives with a marlinspike
    on it...) to open strands of rope.  This does NOT make the
    tool a FID, any more than using a wrench to drive a nail 
    makes it a hammer..... 
    
    The above definitions also agree with what I was taught
    in theCoast Guard (boot camp in 1970) "marlinspike
    seamanship" classes.  That was also where I learned that
    seamen never "got the shaft", they "got the fid" instead.
    
    Have we beaten this to death yet??
    
                                   - Ed Bourgault -

    RE: .-1
    
    >> ................................................ FIDs
    >> are used to separate strands of rope.  (They are not usually
    >> seen in small size, as hand strength is enough to twist
    >> the rope open...)

    Ed, is a 1/4" (I.D.) fid considered small?  I have a couple of them
    that are made out of plastic that I use to splice ski rope and they
    work wonderfully.  They're invaluable for splicing ski rope because
    those strands are impossible to handle without a fid.  Just curious.
    
    					...Roger...

    
    Re: .24 on small plastic fids used on ski rope...
    
    My apologies.  In all my comments I was assuming we were 
    discussing the three-strand type rope, where the strands
    are unwound to produce separate strands, that are then
    woven into the main part of the rope....  
    
    It is true that the braided (plastic... polypropylene or
    polyethylene or nylon "heart and heart") stuff is also
    "stranded" rope, and the "needle" looking things used
    to stuff one piece inside another are ALSO fids.  I
    just missed that we were / could be also discussing 
    this type of rope.  Mea culpa.....
    
    Assuming we are discussing 3-strand rope (of hemp, 
    sisal, nylon, or whatever...), I stand by my statement
    that you don't usually see fids used, as they are not
    needed to separate the strands for splicing.  
    
                             - Ed -

    You ever spliced a 6" laid line?  Try it without a fid...
    
    J

    
    
    
    LETS HAVE AN ARGUMENT.........................
    
    
    JIM.

    OK, Jim, how many angels fit on the point of a fid?  I'll start
    off by claiming that it's pi to the 375th power.
    							8-}

    pi ** 375 = 2.698996367 * 10 ** 186
    
    I hope they are all friendly, including the fractional one.

    WE HAVE A 33' POWER BOAT, BUT I WOULD NOT GO ANYWHERE WITHOUT MY
    ACHILLES, YES DOGS DO LIKE THIESE BOATS, WE HAVE A 9HP MOTOR ON
    IT AND WITH MY HUSBAND AND I IT TRAVELS FAST ENOUGH FOR ME, WHEN
    MY TEEN AGE SON IS IN IT HE OPENS IT WIDE AND ALMOST FLYES.  HE
    HAS BEEN STOPPED SEVERAL TIMES BY THE COST GUARD,  I LOVE IT YOU
    CAN GO ANYWHERE WITH IT, THEY CAN NOT, DO NOT AND WILL NOT TIP.
    YOU CAN NOT SAY THAT ABOUT A HARD SHELL BOAT, I AM A LARGE LADY
    ANDDO NOT LIKE THINGS TO MOVE WHEN I DO,  WE PAID OVER $3K FOR THE
    COMPLETE SET UP SO BE PREPARED TO PAY THAT-BY THE WAY IT IS FOR
    SALE, BUT THIS IS NOT AN AD...BOAT SHOWS ARE A GOOD PLACE TO GET
    ONE FOR A GOOD PRICE BUT DO YOUR SHOPPING FIRST SO YOU KNOW A GOOD
    DEAL WHEN YOU HERE IT....ANY QUESTIONS JUST CALL JOANIE..261-3157.

    
    	I'm looking for an inflatable for use a dinghy. The 'name' brands
    have been discussed but what of some the 'off' (?) brands. I would
    like to get an Avon, Achilles, or Zodiac but finances are too tight
    to swing one right now. Then there's the price of a motor .. :-(
    What about the quality (and price) of brands like Norlantic, Sea
    Rogue and others. Any experiences good or bad?
    	While I'm at it, any feedback on SeaRanger Loran would be
    appreciated. The prices from E&B on these is pretty attractive but
    I'm a skeptic from way back.
    
    Thanks for any opinions.
    
    	Don

    
    RE: .31
    
    Have you considered a "used" model of one of the more popular
    brands?  It would probably cost you about the same as a brand
    new one of lesser quality.
    
    The reason I ask is that on my trip to work I pass one that is
    for sale in someone's yard.  It is a Boston Whaler inflatable,
    which I never even knew were made.  I have no idea of the price,
    but could probably find out if you're interested.
                                           
    Rick W.

    
    	Would I consider a "used" model? Sure would. I like to have
    the boat inflated, not the price.  :-)  Seriously, I've been checking
    the local adds and there is not much available. I live near Concord
    N. H. and it seems that in this area no one sells 'em once they get
    'em. I'm looking for something in the 8' - 10' range with a solid
    transom. 
    	I didn't know Boston Whaler made one. If it's in good shape
    and the price is right, I'ld be interested.
    
    Thanks,
    
    	Don 

    A Vote in Favor of Inflatables ......
    
    I've owned a Zodiac Mark III for almost 3 years.  Its a 15.5 footer
    with a 40HP Johnson.  I trailer it ( Inflateing/Deflateing is a
    good bit of work for a boat this size ).  It is a surprisingly dry
    boat in most circumstances.  I really enjoy  the versatility and
    speed that it delivers.  I use it primarily for diving and beach-
    bumin'.   Its fast enough to pull a skier with ease.  
    
    Advise for someone who's shoppin' for one ....
    There are four major variables with an inflatable: (1) The valves
    (2) the fabric (3) the floorboards (4) the operator .  Look for
    metal valves.  Some boats come with plastic valves .... I dont trust
    em' because I've been in other guys boats that had plastic and they
    caused some problems.  Fabric .... all the inflatable manufacturers
    claim that they use the latest, greatest, toughest fabric around.
    Dont worry about all the claims ..,.. just use the reasonable caution
    that any inflatable will require.  I have had my boat loaded with
    people, diving equipment, fishin' equipment and fat people.  The
    fabric has never been punctured despite what seemed like almost
    deliberate attempt.  ( Dont mis-understand me .... if you took a
    nail or knife and plunged it into the boat, you would certainly
    puncture it. ).
    Floorboards........ I like aluminum because they wont buckele,bend
    or delaminate as will plywood.  But, I do know a guy who's been
    very happy with wooden floorboards.
    The operator ... the person who's operating the boat is the key
    to safety in an inflatable or any boat. I wouldnt hesitate to bring
    kids, wives, dogs etc for ride in my Zodiac..... I've done so several
    times in places like Gloucester Harbor, Connecticut river, Lake
    Bunggee.
    
    Any questions ?
    
    -Malcolm Reid
    

    I have recently purchased a 10 year old Avon sportboat (inflatable
    keel,wood floors and transom) with a 35 Evincrude and am very happy
    with the overall performance of it. It was obviously well taken
    care of but it still is like a new boat. I use it as a tender for
    my home-boat,a ski and kneeboard boat and a dive and fish boat.
    It's a weird feeling at first (flexing) but I feel very safe in
    it.  I'd highly recommend a tube boat..Don't worry..be happy.. 

    re: -1   What did the 10 YEAR OLD Avon cost?
             I'm interested in how these top-of-the-line inflatables
             retain their value.
    /MArk     

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              <<< VICKI::SIE$DATA1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]BOATS.NOTE;1 >>>
                                -< Powerboats >-
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Note 1056.0                    Avon Inflatables???                    No replies
34309::SMAWYER "Stan Mawyer @ MEL"                   12 lines  11-MAY-1993 14:51
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Are there any readers who have experience with the new AVON 2.85
        inflatable with the roll-up floor?  I need the roll up convenience
    and
        storage compactness, but am reluctant to spend so much money until
    I
        can talk with a real owner or user.
    
        Also, how much HP is enough for this 9'2" inflatable?
    
    
        Suggestions will be appreciated.
    

    If you go to the marina next to Marine Speculators in Beverly, MA (just
    off Rte. 1A and a few doors down from the McDonalds), you'll just such
    an inflatable in the water tied to the pier before the first berth on
    the right. The owner is not talkative, but he does give straight
    answers, as nearly as I can tell from having asked him a few questions.
    
    FWIW
    
    John H-C

    John--
    
    Thanks, but I'll need a pointer in the Chesapeake Bay region if a
    marina visit is recommended, since I live in Maryland.
    
    All the Best,
    
    SRM

    
    My humble experience is that the soft floors are not good
    
    when boarding or exiting. Several friends have had these and
    
    sold them. I can't give you details because i don't have them
    
    JIM

    I thought the rollup floors became rigid when unfolded. Otherwise why
    would they have them if they are no better than a rubber raft?  (And
    these boats aren't cheap).
    
    I have a 8'6" Achilles with a rigid wood floor.  Weighs about 95lbs
    without motor.   Mine is rated for 15HP, although it will plane and go
    plenty fast with 8.  I don't know about you but inflatables handle like
    bathtubs and I'm not comfortable going fast (maybe having 10" freeboard
    above freezing salt water has something to do with that :-).   My use
    of the boat is as a tender and in reality I use a 2HP motor which will
    get it to go anywhere I want (at displacement speeds).  I also use the
    oars a lot.

    My inflatable (11.5 feet) has a three-piece rigid plastic floor. It
    makes the boat heavy enough to require two people to move when it's all
    set up. 
    
    I've sometimes wished I'd spent the extra money on another brand with
    a rollup floor. They do indeed become rigid (assuming you put it in
    place right and it's made properly). Because they're wood, however,
    they require some extra maintenance that plastic floors don't.
    
    FWIW
    
    John H-C

    Mine is about 12' and 3 peice wooden floor. I have used a rollup
    several times and it seems okay. Not quite as rigid as mine.
    
    The 12' take up to 15hp easy. I use 8hp normally. It just won't make
    the plane with 3 adults but is fine with 2. I intend to go to 15hp this
    year. The fuel use on the 8hp flat out is quite high and I really don't
    like pushing the thing flat stick all day. It would be nice to make the
    plane with all the family (4).
    
    Does the Avon have an inflatable keel ? Mine does and I would recommend
    it strongly. It takes all of the sloopy handling out and makes the ride
    much softer.

	
	I have a Metzler 13'6" (juca) with an inflatable floor and a 15hp short 
shaft motor. I've had it for a bit over 11 years.

	A couple of points that may effect you are;

	1) Cavitation has been a problem since day one. Depending on the 
load distribution the floor tends to lift up a foot or so in front of the 
transom.

	2) With no extra weight (ie another person) in the boat I think it would
be possible to flip it over. It would take the combination of a bit of swell and
full power into the wind.  

	I don't find either of the above to be great problems just a matter of 
being aware and taking a little care in what you do.

	Don.

	

    
    I have an Achilles 11' with an 8 h.p. Yamaha. It'll do 27 mph
    
    when i'm alone. When alone i sit more toward the middle, shifting
    
    my weight, and it takes off nicely.  I have a wooden floor,
    
    it does require a little maintenance, but not much, if you don't 
    
    abuse it.  With 2 in the boat its not quite as fast, but good
    
    enough.  One word of caution, especially if your alone, if your
    
    heading into a strong head wind beware............... You have to 
    
    slow down.
    
    JIm

    Re:-.43
    
    Yes the avon does have an inflatable keel, in fact the keelson is used
    to cause the tambor like floor to remain rigid when the boat is inflated
    
    Eight HP is the max allowed on the AVON model 2.85, but I really don't
    want to buy any more engine than needed to get two people on plane.  I
    am hoping that 5HP will work, but of course, no one will let you "test
    ride" one with this or any other combination of boat and motor.
    
    

    Years ago I had a 3.5 HP on my Achilles which would plane the boat
    *only* if two people were in it (one person makes the boat too
    stern-heavy to plane).  Clearly this was a very marginal horsepower
    situation, but it goes to show that the minimum HP is a lot lower than
    the max (not nearly so much the case with rigid boats).
    

I have an Avon 3.10 RIB that I bought after many years with an 8' 
fiberglass dinghy. My wife and I wanted something stable after 
too many close situations with the old dinghy. We are pleased with 
the Avon, it has met all of our expectations. It is a solid, 
stable boat. There are several other hard bottom inflatables but 
I prefer the Avon. For example, the Avon has a "bilge" so if the 
boat takes on a small amount of water, your feet have a better 
chance to stay dry. I am sure that others who own hard bottom 
boats other than Avon have their own likes and dislikes but I am 
pleased with the Avon.

I have taken the boat from Hadley's Harbor through Wood's Hole to 
Great Harbor (alone). I wound up with about 6" of water in the 
boat after going through the chop but had no other troubles. 
I imagine most good quality inflatables would have performed as 
well although this is not a recommended trip. 

We power it with an 8 HP Yamaha and according to the boat's 
documentation, a 10 HP engine is maximum. I find that the 8 HP is 
enough for 2 people but when I have 3 or more in the boat, it 
doesn't have enough power to plane. But because of additional 
weight associated with a 10 HP engine along with added cost, I 
will stay with the 8 HP engine.

The boat does have a couple of draw backs. First, it is heavy. It 
weighs in at 112# without the engine. Putting it on the deck of 
my Hunter 30 is an effort and if I didn't have a halyard to winch 
it up, I would have to drag it. The other draw back is that you 
can't fold it up for storage. All in all, I prefer the hard 
bottom because of the stability it provides. 

Joe

    I'm looking for the telephone number or address of a company by
    the name of "California Inflatables, Co. Inc.".
    
    I have an inflatable that was formerly used by the U.S. military. The
    only information I have as to the manufacturer is "California
    Inflatables".
    
    If anyone has any information please pass it on.
    
    Thank you.
    
    Dennis--

        Dennis,
    
        This comes from the Web Yellow pages
    
        California Inflatables Co Inc.
        2608 Temple Heights Dr,
        Oceanside, CA 92056-3512
        (619) 724-8300
    
        Mike

    
    Check the back of a PLAYBOY or PENTHOUSE, they always have lots of ads
    for inflatables.
    
    
    OH WAIT!!
    
    THOSE AREN'T BOATS!
    
    :)