Conference vicki::boats

    
    John,
    Sorry to hear about your boat.
    
    Has it been decided yet whether the boat is a total loss
    or will be fixed?  If it's going to be repaired, there's
    an ad in the NYNEX Boater's Directory for a place right
    in No. Chatham that does fiber glass work.  It's called
    Richardson's Marine, and the ad says "Major collision and
    structural fiberglass repairs".  The ph. no. is 945-4205. 
                                    
    FWIW, the hull section you couldn't remember the name of
    is the "chine".
    
    Let us know how you make out.
    
    Rick W.
    

    The boat is at Nauset Marine in Orleans for no other reason than it
    was the only place that I knew of off the top of my head that was close
    by and could repair both the hull and the Mercruiser stern drive. I
    didn't have a lot of time to make a lot of inquiries. I know that they
    do serious hull fabrication there, if not build entire boats, so they
    seemed as qualified as anyone. Funny thing was that I was thinking cost
    when I was thinking of a place even though the insurance should cover
    all but $500.
    
    My problem is that I have no knowledge of hull construction and assume
    the chine (which got ground away) must be an area that requires
    strength and I wonder if just filling in new fiberglass to reapair the
    hulls shape there also restores the original strength. I don't know how
    how they make repairs like this. Not having any knowledge I fear the worse. 
    
    The adjuster was supposed to look at it today to appraise the damage.
    Let you know when I hear.
     
    john

    	I wish you the best of luck John, in a tough situation. Let us know
    how you make out.
    
    							-mike-

    I'm in the same boat. (Sorry!).
    
    I was diving with a friend a few weeks ago, and my Bayliner dragged
    its anchor while we were under (yes, we did check the anchor before
    we swam off), and ended up on the rocks off Lands End, Newport.
    Not a nice sight to see when you surface after a great dive.
    
    I had very similar damage, but in light winds and seas, and my stern
    drive was destroyed beyond hope. What is worse is that the coastguard
    refused to help and called a contractor, who charged me about $900
    to tow the boat back to Warren. Now I have a lawsuit on my hands,
    because they are also claiming $2100 in "risk fee" which the rescue
    tug captain never told me about. He's claiming the risk fee because
    he made a mistake - after I already had a hold on his line, he decided
    to come in again  and attach it to my bow and clunked his propellor
    against a rock.
    
    Anyway, at least my hull was not holed. The Bayliner is a 23', 1978,
    which is when they made the smaller boats with VERY strong hulls.
    I was told that a modern small Bayliner might have gone down.
    
    Fun and games,
    
    Ray
    
    Who will never dive again without setting TWO anchors.

    Wow! Ray.
    
    You must have gotten the Jinx of the dragging anchor when we last dove
    together. My boat dragged hers last year while Tom & I were diving in a
    nice sheltered cove ?? Luckly my wife who was on the beach jumpped in
    the rubber dingy and blasted out to catch it. The boat would not have
    gone far as the anchor snagged on a mooring chain, but it made for a
    bad experiance.
    
    This summer We were diving off of Misery ( The other side) and the
    anchor dragged again. I came up just in time to see the boat about 10
    meters from the rocks. Too close for my comfort! 
    
    Since then we ALLWAYS scope out the main danforth and then run and aux
    anchor at about 30 deg off the bow. Better safe than sorry.
    
    Of course I allway desend the main rode to check the anchor before
    diving. (As allways).
    
    Walt: Whos looking forward to some KEY'S Diving!!
    
    

re .0:

You have my sympathy. You are nonetheless, very lucky to still have a boat. 
Using a hook to connect the mooring pennant to the boat is a very poor idea. 
Use a heavy pennant, lots of chafe protection, and a strong cleat.

re anchor dragging:

Anchors drag for a number of reasons: wrong anchor being used for the bottom, 
anchor too small (often), too little anchor rode being used (often), anchor 
improperly set, and so on. My insensitive and biased view is that there is no
excuse for an anchor dragging in anything less than a full gale and seas of
several feet. See Notes 69, 146, 343, 373, 532, and 607 in SAILING for much
good information on anchoring. See Note 1045 for much discussion of moorings
and mooring pennants. 

    I agree with you on the Alan, there is no good excuse.
    But things happen.
    
    I'd recommend a Bruce anchor to those who anchor, I have one,
    they do work, and seem to in all bottom conditions. As for leaving
    the boat unattended................well, i guess i don't have to
    beat it up..
    
    jim.
    
    

Re. Using a hook to connect the mooring pennant to the boat is a very poor idea.

    This is the first time I've heard this, of course. When I bought the
    boat I needed a mooring and the dealer's supply store sold me one. They
    told me how they were going to rig it, and I trusted them to do it
    right. Before I put the mooring in the Harbormaster inspected it to
    make sure it was proper and adequate for my boat. Many others were
    hooked to their moorings in the same fashion.
    
    The hook seemed adequate, and the spring loaded clip/catch/whatever-it-is
    seemed adequate for the job. How was I, a novice, to know different.
    It held during similiar winds, albeit from a different direction
    I think, from Hurricane Hugo with no prolems.
    
    john
    

re .7:

According to some tests (see SAILING Note 373), there are anchors that have 
greater holding power per pound of anchor weight than the Bruce. There have 
also been reports that Bruce anchors won't reset until any muck has been 
cleaned off the flukes. Not a nice feature if you're shifting your anchorage 
in the dark or a sudden squall. 

re .8:

Be skeptical at all times. Murphy was right -- if something can go wrong, it 
will. View everything with a series of questions: What can fail? Is the
failure likely to occur? What are the consequences of failure? What can be
done to prevent the failure? Talk to others, look at how others do things. Ask 
why they do what they do, what problems they've had, and how they've solved 
them. Don't assume that something is right simply because many people do it 
that way. 

    Re. .9, Interesting, how do you reconcile:
    
    Don't assume that something is right simply because many people do it
    that way. 
    
    with:
    
    Talk to others, look at how others do things
    
      
    It would seem that if knew one the right answer that you could select
    the right people (or right answers) to talk to and therefore could
    avoid what everyone else does because it is wrong. But then you don't
    need to ask. Within the limits of my capabilities, experience, and
    knowledge I feel I that did the right things (please note there was a
    back-up safety line because I could envision the hook failing) and
    followed your advice but still had a problem because I wasn't able
    to detect I hadn't yet talked to the right person. I guess this
    is what is called life and the school of hard knocks.
    
    john

re .10:

Sifting the tidbits of good knowledge from the mountains of uninformed opinion 
and lazy expediency isn't easy. In fact, it is downright hard. I've been
sailing on the ocean (including a round trip to Bermuda on my boat) for some
thirteen years. I am still learning much every year. 

An example: Vinyl tubing is very widely used to protect mooring pennants from 
chafe. Such tubing is perfectly adequate almost all the time. However, in 
extreme conditions (eg, a prolonged autumn northeaster in New England) leather
chafe protection is about all that works. Leather is expensive, hard to find,
and time consuming to install. Maybe one owner in a hundred uses it. One of 
these years I'll be one of them. 

Another example: The mooring/dockline chocks on most boats are too small and 
too sharp edged. A 1/2 inch nylon line under load can be chafed through in 
minutes under the wrong conditions. 

And yes, as you fear, much is simply learned by sometimes unpleasant 
experience. Just nuture a skeptical, inquiring outlook.

    Along time ago, I use to spend my spare time climbing rocks, and as a
    result I ended up learning something about ropes and methods used to
    secure them.  Climbers use something called a carabiner to serve
    the function of the snap hook you used on your mooring.  
    In climbing a fair amount of concern is spent trying to ensure that a 
    load is never placed on the 'gate' of the carabiner.   As in your 
    unfortunate instance shows, the gates can break, open or deform at fairly 
    low loads. 
    
    A basic rule in climbing, and I think it would apply
    here, is to use a knot to secure items which should remain stationary
    or which require a large margin of saftey.  i.e. the belayer or in this 
    case the moored boat.  You sacrifice some convience in having to tie and 
    untie the rope(s) but you dont have to depend on an additional device.  
    The simpler the better.
    
    Of course this does mean that you rely upon your skill to tie a
    secure knot.  But bowlines are pretty simple to learn, and knowing 
    you rely on the knot and the rope has a wonderful effect in making
    you a quick study.                                          

    Well Nauset Marine has finally been able to complete an estimate. An
    earlier estimate had to be revised once they got into it and found
    significantly more damage to the drivetrain than they thought there
    would be. The estimate is $8000. I paid $6200 for the boat and that is
    the amount Metropolitan allowed me to insure based on the bill of sale
    from the dealer. I haven't heard from Metropolitan yet, but I expect
    them to offer me $6200 for the boat and an invitation not to do
    business with them again. 
    
    The hull will cost "only" $1800 to repair. The other $6200 represents
    repairs to the outdrive and transom plate. Nauset Marine tells me that
    the transom plate isn't just a hunk of metal, but includes a gazillion
    parts, and the problem is that it isn't available as a unit anymore,
    but only seperate parts that have to pieced together. Individual parts
    cost more than units and labor to assemble costs more.
    
    I asked about other methods, which might seem to give me morth than I
    deserved - but would save the insurance company money. I asked about
    replacing the old, not available anymore transom plate with a new one
    and new/rebuilt outdrive. Good idea, except as far as they can tell my
    old Ford block won't match up to any of the new units. To go that route
    would mean changing the powerplant too.
    
    Looking at the boat, the hull doesn't seem to warrant totalling the
    boat, it seems such a waste. I suppose an industrious person will buy
    it for scrap value and re-power it with a drivetrain from another
    source. I don't have the experience to do that myself.
    
    I really don't want to find another "perfect" boat. We liked the one we
    had. I know there are lots of Sea Rays out there, but I wonder how many
    SRV220s are for sale at the price I paid for mine (with salary freeze
    and other bills going up this is not an opportunity to move up, we will
    lose money - deductible, equipment, fees that were paid and will have
    to be paid again - on this even if we were to find another boat just
    like it for the same price). It looks like I'll have a chance to find out. 
    
    john                                                                 

    
    don't get to concerned here, take the money and buy it from the
    ins. co. after they total it.  COOL IT.
    
    JIM.

    The insurance company disallowed $1000, of the $8000 original estimate,
    as items that were my experience outside of the loss. Of the $7000
    remaining, $3000 was for parts, which Metropolitan depreciated 50% and
    gave me $1500 for. So they sent a check for $5000 ($7000 - $1500
    depreciation - $500 deductable) to fix the boat. This meant that if I
    wanted the boat fixed according to the estimate I would have to come up
    with $1500 for parts (in addition to the deductible), which I did't
    have. This represented a major problem. Everyone I talked to said that
    I wasn't likely to find used parts (which is what they gave me money
    for) for this old outdrive in good condition. This was also the fist
    time I heard of "replacement coverage" for a boat. When I called the
    METPAY office the selling agent was very honest in admitting that there
    was a mistake in not telling me about this coverage, and if I had it,
    the parts would be covered in full, and that she would try to get that
    coverage for me after-the-fact. 
    
    Metropolitan was willing to do that, 1 point against all the gripes
    about METPAY, but it meant totalling the boat. I have not had the boat
    long enough to fall in love with it, but I was uncomfortable with that
    option - the risk that I might not be able to find another boat like it
    for the money I would have was the biggest fear. Somewhat substantiated
    after looking through several dealers and want ads.
    
    Since I could see that it might take some time to work this out I
    wanted to haul the boat the away from the boatyard to avoid storage
    charges. I would then see if I could get it repaired elsewhere for
    less, or accept a total loss. When we arrived at the boat yard we found
    that they had a couple of used Mercruiser 888 engine/outdrives that
    they were going to sell the next day. The manager claimed that he
    didn't realize that they had them, but I could buy one for $1000. I
    could see that if I did, that I could get my boat fixed without worrying
    about that $1500, as the total bill would be somewhere around the $5000
    I had from the insurance settlement. 
    
    So, I decided to leave the boat there and have them put the used
    outdrive on from Mercruiser 888 and repair the hull. The engine half of
    the 888 will come with me as a spare. I am accepting used parts, but I
    am also getting a spare engine out of it (since they wouldn't split up
    a drive unit into engine and outdrive) that is supposed to run well
    and the outdrive is supposed to be rebuilt.
    
    john                                                                

re                  <<< Note 546.15 by SMVDV1::JGUNNERSON "JLG" >>>
>                            -< Middle of the story >-

>    time I heard of "replacement coverage" for a boat. When I called the
>    METPAY office the selling agent was very honest in admitting that there
>    was a mistake in not telling me about this coverage, and if I had it,
>    the parts would be covered in full, and that she would try to get that
>    coverage for me after-the-fact. 
    
>    Metropolitan was willing to do that, 1 point against all the gripes
>    about METPAY, but it meant totalling the boat. I have not had the boat

	I think they are covered for this under a policy that they 
carry on themselves  -  usually mention of their  "errors and omissions"  
coverage will get their attention.  Basically it comes down to 
(paraphrased)  If they led you to believe that you were covered, or if 
what they said could reasonably be interpreted as meaning that you 
were covered, or if they failed to tell you what else you needed to 
get the coverage you might have thought you had,,, and on and on, then
they are obligated to cover you.  They cover themselves against this
with the errors and omissions thing - I suspect that it is a policy
that is covered by another underwriter, dunno. 

	R