Conference vicki::boats

    I got my insurance through BOAT U.S.  I did a lot of shopping and they
    came in at the best price. I also got quotes from STATE FARM and MET
    PAY here at DEC. The number I have for BOAT U.S is 1-800-2883, when you
    call  be prepared with all the boat information (Model, Size, Horse
    power  serial numbers etc..) You ae actually filling out an application
    and then they will get back to you within 24 hours with a quote.
    
    Hope this helps
    
    Paul

    I forgot to give you the full number it is 1-800-283-2883

    
    DIR/KEYWORD=INSURANCE says you should look at notes 39, 133, 347
    
    Rick

re                      <<< Note 515.0 by FLOWER::PIERCE >>>

	Unlike car insurance (in most states of the US), nobody HAS TO 
sell you boat insurance.  I bought mine through MetPay, I don't recall 
them asking about my car driving record, but they probably had that 
info on file anyway.  I was considering dropping it this year, not 
having had a claim in 3 years - but I had a close call last sunday 
that WAS my fault and could potentially have cost me all I own (& 
MORE).  I s'pose a finance company COULD seize your boat, though I'd
guess they'd be more likely to try and stop you from using it UNTIL it
IS insured.  I'd worry FAR more about my liability than having the
boat grabbed.

	R


	

    
    RE .04
    
    Yes Met-pay is unwilling to!  All the insurance co..will give me
    insurance until they find out my husband had a speeding ticket
    over 3yrs ago..then they cancle it on me.. I've had 5 companys
    in 3 months and I've called EVERYONE...I was told in plain eglish
    that there is NO way for me to have insurance...so I was just not
    going toget insurance..but then I thought that the bank would take
    my boat...
    
    I have a perfect record..but I'd have to have my husbands name totaly
    off the papers..and I cant..we need both of us on the paper to afford
    the boat...
    
    I dont know what to do
    
    Louisa

    
    re .01
    
    Hi Paul
    
    I just called Boat U.S and they are not sure they can help me,
    but they will try, she told me on the phone, that they to might
    pull my insurance..I guess I'll wait and see..the good thing is
    that they cant pull driving records..but she knows it will come
    up sooner or later..
    
    Does anyone eles have 1 speeding ticket over 3yrs ago,,and you still
    have boat insurance..???  what is your secret??
    
    Louisa

    
    Yes I had a few traffic tickets and yes my boat is insured and a
    few years ago my snowmobile was also insured.
    
    
    The secret....My wife is my agent. :-)
    
    
    Frenchy

re                       <<< Note 515.5 by FLOWER::PIERCE >>>
>                              -< yes metpya too >-

>    I have a perfect record..but I'd have to have my husbands name totaly
>    off the papers..and I cant..we need both of us on the paper to afford
>    the boat...
    
>    I dont know what to do
    
>    Louisa


	OK, 

i)	Put both of your names on the papers for the loan.

ii)	Put only YOUR name on the papers for the insurance.

iii)	Just don't let him drive/operate/sail the thing (-:

		...or make sure that you are at the helm if/when it is
involved in an incident that leads to a claim. 

	R

    
    I HAVE MY INSURANCE THROUGH PRUDENTIAL IN NASHUA, N.H. WHEN I TOOK IT
    OUT TWO YEARS AGO I HAD A TICKET WITHIN THE PREVIOUS 6 MONTHS. THEY
    INSURED THE BOAT WITH A LITTLE ADDED COST DUE TO THE TICKET. NOW THAT
    THE TICKET IS OFF MY CAR INSURANCE I GOT A SAFE DRIVER DISCOUNT ON THE
    BOAT AND CAR. BY THE WAY THE BOAT WAS THE ONLY INSURANCE I HAD WITH
    PRUDENTIAL AT THE TIME.
    
    I DONT KNOW WHICH STATE YOUR IN BUT YOU CAN TRY ANY OFFICE I SUPPOSE.
    
    GOOD LUCK
    
    BILL
    

	You havn't yet said which state you live in, or where the boat 
will be kept or where it will be used - it could make some differences.

	Some of the members of this conference live in Mass., but 
register, keep and use their boats in N.H., Maine or Vermont.  It just 
might be possible to register it out of state (as a non resident) if 
you can convince them and yourself that it will be kept/used there for 
the majority of the season.   (....well, whatever the terms and 
conditions are...)  You might want to consider this as an alternative 
if it is the ONLY way to get coverage - might find better boating too 
:-)

	R

    
    Sorry, I should of told you where I live/boat..I live and boat
    in Mass...or better know to you NHits as Taxachusetts!  Thanks
    for the infor you all gave me so far,,but none if it will work
    I've tried it all..so I guess i sit and wait for the bank to
    come for my boat..if they come
    
    I have 2 friends that have a boat and a Jet-ski both brandy new
    and neiter of them have the crafts insured..and they have'nt been
    repoed yet, and its been allmost a year for both of them...I just
    wish I know what was comming up in the future..
    
    Thanks alot
    
    Louisa 
    

    
    What kind of boat do you have???  (length and Horse power)
    this usually has a lot to do with whether or not you can get
    insurance.
    
    As far as the bank goes,  When I switched insurance companies
    I forgot to tell the bank about the new company,  and they told
    me that if I did not get insurance in 30 days they would get it
    for me, (but not a a great price).  SO,  maybe if they find out
    it is un-insured they MAY help to get it insured.
    
    Mike
    

As I understand it, you already own the boat, and are afraid the 
bank is going to take it away because you have no insurance?  Did
you have insurance at the time you bought the boat, and did they
tell you they'd repo the boat if you dropped the insurance?  How
will they know, do they actually ask you for proof of insurance 
every year?  As far as I know, they generally only ask for proof 
of insurance at the time of the loan closing.

I know that in Mass, where auto insurance is required by law, the
insurance company will notify the registry if you cancel your insurance
without turning in the plate or switching to another company.  The
registry will then pull your registration.  But boats are different,
insurance is not required, and I never heard of an insurance company
notifying a bank of canceled insurance so that they could repo your 
boat.  And if you're up to date on the payments I kind of doubt the 
bank is too anxious to repo the boat.

As another possibility for re-instating your insurance, have you looked
into taking a Coast Guard Aux. or Power Squadron safety course?  I
had one speeding ticket on my record, but had no problem getting 
insurance on my new boat from Metpay earlier this year.  In fact they
beat the price quoted by our homeowner's company by over a hundred bucks,
and I have no other insurance with them.  I don't know how much taking
the CG Aux safety course a few years ago helped, but it certainly didn't
hurt.

Good Luck!
Rick

    Here's my story. I have a 1986 Searay Sundancer 268. I orginally
    had insurance with Nationwide at 512. per. I heard about Boat US
    and joined just to get the towing insurance. Last year i accrued
    two speeding tickets,both for 30 in a 25. No matter 2 tickets. When
    it came time to renew my insurance I called Boat US,they took all
    the info plus ask about tickets and the like. The bottom line is
    I got insurance with them for 290 a year and that included a break
    for no claims in the last three years.
    I never heard of any repos for not having insurance but my marina
    requires it and it just makes good sense.
    BTW: I do 90% of my boating on the Chesapeake.
    Good luck.

    I believe the requirement for insurance from a bank is to cover
    their exposure in case of a total loss. I have had the bank send
    me notice that they haven't received a copy of my new policy. I
    usually photocopy my documents and send it to them. One year the
    bank didn't get the information I had sent. I received a second
    notice. It said that if they didn't get a copy of the policy by
    a certain date, they would get insurance. Their insurance was going
    to be around $1,200 a year and they would just add it to my loan.
     I was paying $312. It turns out there
    is a company in Ohio ?? that just matches policies to loans for
    the banks, and sends out a notice if there is no match. 
        I had a problem getting insurance on my 1987 Four Winns Liberator.
    It is 21' long, with a 335 OMC King Cobra. No insurance company
    in New England would touch it alone. I ended up going with National
    Marine Underwriters in Maryland. I am paying $585. Their # is
    1-800-262-8467. They have set up some deals with the boat manufacturers
    to help avoid situations such as this. 

    I tried boat U.S. this year to see if I could find a better price
    and they wouldn't do the boat either. They referred me to 
    another company who quoted $1,200. 
    
    RE .0
    Did you just get the boat? If so, ask the dealer (if you bought
    from a dealer) if he can help. One speeding ticket shouldn't cause
    this many problems.
    
    When I was looking originallyin 1987, the underwriters were looking
    unfavorably on
    		   1:  boats that go over 40-45 MPH
    		   2:  boats that are over 10 HP per foot
    		   3:  boaters with recent DWI convictions
    		   4:  boaters with previous claims
    		 
    Other things that insurance companies and agents like is to get
    all  your insurance. If you offer an agent your Apt insurance, boat
    insurance, insurance on 2 cars, life insurance, maybe your IRA,
    and throw in a $1,000,000 umbrella liability policy, maybe someone
    will change their tune. If an agent is making enough money on you,
    he may go to bat for you with the company. I could have had Nationwide
    if I were willing to give them all my insurance business. I have
    AMICA for my apt and car. I told the agent I wasn't willing to give
    them up, and he said he didn't blame me.	

    Good luck, I've been there
    
    Scott
    

    
    re .15
    
    Thanks for the phone number, I'll try them also.  I did just get
    the boat this year..and I did have Met-Pay insure it..they have my
    2 cars, appartment insurance plus an umbrella..and they cancled me
    I offered all the other insurance co. all my business and they 
    turned me down..I bought my boat at Gauch Bros.,.marina and they
    said "no problem we will help you" and 2 months later, we were
    cancled..my boat in a 19' cubby cabin w/a Johnson 110 it olny does
    40mph and we only had the 1 tickect..I just cant belive all the
    trouble..I am taking more corses this year and my husband will be
    taking them too, maybe more corses will help?  Boat U.S will be
    calling me today to tell me if they will insure me or not..
    
    I will keep you posted..thanks for all the ideas
    
    Louisa

    After talking to Met-Pay the following facts have come out:
    
    o Met-Pay and many other insurance companies have now, as of this year,
      increased the years which they examine the driving and overall claim
      record of the person seeking insurance to 5 years not 3 years as in
      the past. This is being done for sure in Mass maybe/maybe not in NH
      and other states.
    
    o If they find that you have 2-3 tickets (auto) within the 5 year
      window - they WILL drop you. 
    
    o If you are dropped by Met-Pay - that data is accessable by other
      insurance companies - hence the second company dropping you.
    
    After hearing this, it seems that looking for insurance out of this
    area (ie. Mass and maybe New England) might be your best bet.
    
    You might HAVE to find some possible way to write the loan in your name
    only - I know this won't be easy. This MIGHT be the only way..
    
    You are in a tough position Louisa..I wish you the best of luck.
    
    							      -mike-
    							Co-Moderator Boats

    
    	If you have a home, maybe a home equity note to pay the boat
    off and then you can register the boat in your name and cut down
    on the games with the insurance companies.
    
    	just my .02 worth
    
    	Good Luck,
    
    	Mike

    I'd never do somthing like this myself.... but: Go reregister the boat
    in "Your Name ONLY!" for next year.
    
    The owner does not have to be the same person that registers the boat.
    
    The driver (s) do not have to be the owners.
    
    Simple? isn't it?
    
                   

    
    RE .19
    
    I wish it was that simple..if I re-register the boat in my name..I
    will have to pay sale tax on it, even if the registertratin is just
    transfered I still have to pay tax on it.. You used to be able to
    sell a vechical to an relitave for 1.00...not no more..it would be
    600.00 dollars to do the transfer..Oh well..
    
    US boat just called me, I was upfrount w/ them and told them of
    the ticket in 86' (I should'nt of) they do not check driving recors
    but since I told them it will go on my records and they do check
    back 5 years also..so it looks like they are out too..
    
    I guess I'll do the only thing I can..be very carful on the lake
    and pay the bank there outragist price for insurance...1,500.00 for
    the year vs 170.00 for the year..
    
    Thanks again for all of your help :-)
    louisa

    re. the re-registration and selling to a relative for $1.00
    
    my understanding of this was that if you transfer ownership to a
    relative, and the sale price is $1.00 then you pays sales tax on
    the book value of the boat,car,whatever, and then you can file for
    a rebate. Somehow they like to involve a notary public as well.
    The state wants the money up front, then you can get it back after
    you file for a rebate.
    
    It may be worth checking out with your town hall.
    
    ~jeff

    
    
    I think it's a moot point whether the state will charge sales
    tax if you sell the boat to your husband, because the bank
    probably will not let you sell the boat to *ANYONE* while they
    have a lien on it.  Both names are on the loan, right?
    
    I can't believe that Metpay considers one ticket to be such a 
    big issue.  Besides starting our own marina, anyone know what 
    it takes to form your own insurance company?!    8^)
                
    Rick W.
    

	I can see why banks want both names on the loan, it was 
explained to me when I applied for a mortgage.  If there is a 
separation the bank doesn't want to chase after whichever party gets 
to keep the house/boat/car/other_toy.

	I had an arguement with Met pay when they started asking for 
my wife's licence number for the boat policy.  My position was 
basically,  "Why are you assessing her as a risk when I havn't told 
you (and you havn't yet asked) that she will be operating it ?"  I got 
a ration of rubbish about  "all household members"  and  "new company 
policy to request this information",  but I didn't give it to them.  I 
havn't had any notice to say she isn't covered, and they had better 
not have got the info from the registry.

	I still don't see what the problem is with owning and 
registering it in two names but insuring it under one.  If you declare 
that your husband will never operate it and they specifically name him 
as being excluded from operating it you should get coverage.  OK, if 
he DOES operate it they won't cover any claim resulting from his 
driving, but at least you would get all the other coverage, like fire, 
theft, vandalism, running aground (if you're at the helm), etc.

	R

    I have my boat insured with State Farm. I`ve had them for three
    years. When i took out the policy, the only question was if i had
    ever had a boater safety course, and if i was a first time owner.
    As far as i know they didn`t check driving records (I`ve had tickets).
    
    I do live in Michigan, but the insurance laws are similar. by that
    i mean we too must have autos insured, but it is an option to 
    insure a boat. Also, I have never heard of a bank reposesing (sp)
    a boat for not having insurance, but they will probably insure it
    for you for a SMALL fee 8^). 
    
    I do think you should get insured even if you don`t have too. it`s
    worth it!! I`ve not had a claim in three years, but last week turned
    in a claim for $900, I`ll have the check tommorrow and be very happy
    I don`t have to pay that bill. My premiums are about $150 a year
    so i think it`s worth it to keep my sanity and be insured. Besides,
    as has already been stated damage to my boat is the least of my
    worries, one really needs to be worried about liability in todays
    world. Maybe state farm can help you its worth a try. 
    
    
    				regards, 
    
    
    				jeff b. 
    
    
    			
  
    
    

    RE: Louisa
    
    Given the numbers you stated in your reply (.20), simple math shows
    that going the re-registration route will save you lots of money in the
    end.  For example: you said $1,500 (I assume you mean that's what you'd
    pay if things remain as they are now) vs. $170 (if you didn't have this
    speeding ticket thing hanging over your head) for insurance, that's a
    difference of $1,330.  But if you re-register the boat for, as you
    said, $600, you'd still be ahead by $1,330 - $600 = $730.  Granted the
    all-at-once $600 payment to the registry is a bummer, but then at $170
    per year for insurance you'd make out even after the first 6 months.
    It's like this: the first year you'd pay $770 ($600 for re-registration
    plus $170 for insurance) and then $170 for insurance for each
    subsequent year.  Sounds equitable to me.  Did I miss something or do
    the numbers work out that easy?
    
    As far as Boat U.S. giving you lip service about the ticket (since you
    told them), doesn't that suck?!?!  You start to wonder if honesty is
    *really* the best policy!  Sometimes it's more like "what they don't
    know won't hurt me" or "heck, let them find out for themselves...that's
    what they get paid for!"  Of course, when they do find out, it's *you*
    that gets the short end of the stick.
    
    RE: Rick W. / Insurance Co.
    
    My guess is that to start our own insurance co. we need *big* bucks and
    people with b@!!s the size of the moon (sorry ladies)!  :-)  Risk is
    their business...not for me, thank you.  Good idea, though.
    
    ...Roger...

    WHAT IF ???????
    What if we Decies formed a National Boat club ? Could we some kind
    of discount insurance plan like group medical ? Any of you legal
    types care to comment ? Who knows maybe someone like Boat US or
    any Marine underwriter would like to insure hundreds of boaters
    at one shot.

    
    Has anyone ever heard of Palomar Insurance?  Also known as
    Ski Protection?  They quoted me $266.00 to insure a 1992
    MasterCraft ProStar 190.  This company is based out of Alabama,
    the dealer I bought my ProStar from highly recommended them.
    
    MetPay quoted me $375.00.  I'll be getting one more quote
    from BOAT/US but I doubt they'll beat Palomar's price.
    
    The number for Palomar is 205-270-0161.
    
    Jeanne
    
    

    My marine polices are amended to my home owners policy.
    
    I have 2 boats, a 1965 and a 1978.  The cost of the insurance
    is based on the value of the boats.  Although I do not remember
    the numbers the cost is low since it is an add on to my homeowners.
    
    I'll call my agent today and see if I can get the breakdown.
    
    I did not have many options since most marine insurance will not
    cover older boats.  
    
    Mark

    Mark, you don't have Metpay for homeowners, correct?  They wouldn't
    cover my 1965 boat.  I went to Hagerty Marine Insurance.  It costs
    $235 on a declared value of $8000 (although it's probably only worth
    $4000).  I would like to do some comparison shopping because I don't
    use the boat that much and only when the lake is quiet.  I think $235
    is too much to pay.  What company did you find that would cover your
    1965 boat?

Wayne, i would lower the declared value of your boat to 4K, if your paying

on 8K, and its only worth 4K they'll only give your 4K regardless

of what you pay.

JIm  (who already got suprised)

    Most of the premium goes towards the part of the insurance that covers
    injuries to the occupants or others (comprehensive?).  I feel like I'm
    paying alot for this coverage ($100,000?) for a boat that only get's 
    used by myself on a lake usually only during the week when I am the
    only boat out so I would be hard pressed to injure myself or somebody
    else.  Rolling the declared value back to $4000 was only going to save
    me about $20.  Maybe $235 isn't a bad price to pay.  I don't know.
    What are other's paying?  Maybe I'm to cheap at heart to be a boater.
    I pay $75 per month to keep it at a guy's dock that he doesn't use
    otherwise.  That seems outrageous to me but a wooden boat should not
    be trailered so I'm stuck there.
    Wayne

    I've got mine on my homeowners also. All I got was liability - no
    damages. The cost is something under $100 - not sure of exact. I insure
    with Liberty Mutual - METpay was way over them when I add the boat
    coverage.

    Jeanne,
    
    I get my insurance thru AWSA.  I believe it is called SKI SAFE
    or something like that.  You must be an AWSA member($40) but it 
    was the best buy out there for me when I was insuring my FLIGHTCRAFT.
    Most "regular" insurance companies would charge an arm and a leg 
    for a 19' boat with 200 HP O/B.   I can not remember what I am
    paying but I think it is in the range of $300.  And I generally 
    over insure my toys.
    
    You could try calling the insurance company that covers the AWSA,
    they are called Sullivan and Strauss Agency  (800) 225-6560  or
    try calling AWSA  (800) 533-AWSA.
    
    Probably worth a phone call.
    Mike
    

    Well, my homeowners is $791.  $397 for the home and $394 for
    both the 1965 and 1978 boats.
    
    I think the '65 was running me about $140, so the '78 is around
    $260 with a declared value of about $4000.
    
    They are mailing me the policy so I will know more of the details
    next week.  I'll post the specifics then.
                                                 
    Mark

    Since I have my policies in hand:
    
    I have METPAY boat insurance as follows:
    
    	1988 26.5 Bayliner Ciera	$242 without my safety course
    					discount which I am turning in
    					today.
    
    
    	This policy includes $15k Repair Damage	       $211
    			     $100k/300k Liability	 20
    			     $50k property damage	  4
    			     $5k medical		  7
    			     $100. emerg service
    		
    	My 1984 19 ft Bayliner is $176 per year same coverages except
    	repair cost coverage is $8k.
    
    	Both are Massachusetts policies w/ $250 deductible.
    
    
    	Steve

    Folks,
    
     My State Farm policy is similar to .-1 for my '88 Malibu Sunsetter
    with a 454 in it. I pay around $250 a year. At the advice of my agent
    ( I  have homeowners, 3 cars including a Plan B Digiwreck, and the
    boat) I lowered the liability on all policies and got a $1M umbrella
    policy. This policy steps in after the liability coverages on the
    individual policies runs out. It costs about $100/year and is less than
    keeping the coverages on the other policies up higher.
    
    Chuck

    OK here is my insurance stats.  I'm not pleased...
    
    I have 2 boats as riders on my homeowners...
    
    Cost is $394 for the boats.
    
    $286 for liability ($500,000 per occurance, personal and property
    damage).
    
    $108 for both boats, covering motor, boat, and trailer with $250
    deductible.
    
    The 1965 Starcraft is covered at $1400 value, trailer $300.
    The 1978 Glastron is covered at  $2250 value, trailer $750.
    
    Liability will be reduced by about $70 when I sell the smaller
    boat, and probably about $30 on the boat itself.
    
    So for the 1978 alone I am looking at about $300/year.
    
    Anyone know if the MET insurance would cover the 1978 boat?  OR is
    it too old.
    
    Thanks, Mark
               

    re- 1
    
    	MetPay should cover the 78 Glastron. Well they cover my 79 Steury
    16.5' as a rider on my homeowners for liability and damage (they bought
    me a new windshield ~$500.00 worth no deductable).
    
    	I'm not sure of the cost but I think that it's less than $150.00.
    It covers the boat for the original purchase price ($2500.00 bought it
    from my uncle 7yrs ago) and the trailer $750.00 (4yrs old).
    
    	I believe MetPay is very compeditive as far as the type of
    coverages that I have been needing.
    
    	Norm
    

    Norm.
    
    Do you know the breakdown of that $150?  How much is for liability and
    what is your liability limit?  Mine is $500,000.
    
    Also what size engine do you have.  My agent was telling me that was a
    factor also.  Mine is 175hp.
    
    Thanks, Mark

    Jeanne,
    
    I use METPAY for my '90 Flightcraft, and from what I recall it's around
    $160 a year. Can't believe the book value of a '92 MC is double that of
    mine. My Baja, an '86 had a book value half of the Flighty, and it was
    about $135 a year.
    
    Summin' don't sound right.
    
    ~jeff

re- <<< VICKI::SIE$DATA1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]BOATS.NOTE;1 >>>
                                -< Powerboats >-
>>    Norm.
    
>>    Do you know the breakdown of that $150?  How much is for liability and
>>    what is your liability limit?  Mine is $500,000.
    
>>    Also what size engine do you have.  My agent was telling me that was a
>>    factor also.  Mine is 175hp.
    
>>    Thanks, Mark

	Mark,

 No I don't have a break down with me at work but will have to look for it at 
 home. My Liability coverage is $300,000.00 minimum and I also have the
 $1mil umbrella to cover the house/cars/boat.

	As far as the engine size, I only have a 55hp sniff,sniff ;-(. Been
 working on getting a 90hp for a few years, but every time I think that I'm
 about to get it (tax returns etc.) something happens (house/car/etc repairs).
 Maybe this year though, if I'm impulsive enough, I'll have the 90hp before
 I notice that there is better places to spend the money :-)......

	Norm

	I was reading an article about what to do in the
event of an accident on the water. Read pretty much like, what to
do if you have a car accident.....
	
	But when they got to the "exchange insurance" part, I 
though... Gee, insurance isn't required, will I be covered for
damage from uninsured boats/operators?

anyone know?

RIck

    re:42
    
    	That would be dependant on whether you had insurance that covered
    you for that. In the event of an accident that wasn't your fault, you
    always have legal recourse against the owner and/or operator of the
    boat that hit you whether they have insurance or not. All it would take
    is a call to one of the many James Sockalov (sp ? pronounced
    Suck-em-dry ;-) types. 
    
    	If you need a number, just watch the commercials during just about 
    any daytime talk show or soap. Gee, wonder why they picked that as
    their target audience ? ;-)
    
    	Ray

    
    Actually, Ray, that's kind of what I was getting at....
    
    For instance, on a auto policy in Mass there is a seperate item
    for "Uninsured Motorist" which means that the Insurance carrier
    will cover any damage caused by such a uninsured person, then the
    INSURANCE Co, (read: NOT Me) would chase after the other person.
    
    I just talked to Met and apparently this is the case with boats. Met
    will pay up and then go chase the other guy's insurance co or the
    other guy whichever is appropriate.
    
    Rick