Conference vicki::boats

    re: < Note 398.0 by CGVAX2::CLARK_J >

    1. It's suprising how fast the grease in the trailer bearings
    	becomes useless. I try to do mine twice a year, it's really
    	a very simple procedure. 
    
    		1) Remove rubber plug
    		2) Attach grease gun and continue to fill
    			until all old grease is purged and
    			new grease begins to appear.
    
    	It's only a ten minute job and saves the chance of hearing a
    	tire scratching along the highway.
    
    2. With that size load the tongue weight is probably 300 lbs, in
    	which case 220 is fine. I understand that some trailers do
    	have an adjustment for tongue weight, but if it's
    	supposed to be up to 300 lbs then any adjustment will just
    	cause the trailer to handle poorly.
    
    Rick

    The wieght should be over 60 lbs but not more than you can lift, I
    would say that 100 to 120 would be optimum for your rig. Every trailer
    made can be adjusted to balance the wieght. Simply move the front bow
    support till you have the stern no closer than 2" to your rollers or
    even to the bunks. Not much further back than 6" or you will loose your
    support. If you are still out of balance, jack up the trailer by the
    frame, loosen all suppension parts and move the axels.
    
                                      Walt
    

RE: Note 398.2  

>>  The wieght should be over 60 lbs but not more than you can lift, I
                                      ^   ^   ^     ^   ^   ^    ^
>>  would say that 100 to 120 would be optimum for your rig. 


Walt,
This goes against every bit of advice I have ever heard or read.  The rule
of thumb is tongue weight should be 10% of total weight, but I have never
heard of the "but not more than you can lift" advice.  For example, a 5000
pound trailer should have 500 pounds of tongue weight, and would probably
be all over the road if tongue weight were adjusted to be "not more than
you can lift".  I thought this is why they sell weight distributing hitches
and 750 pound tongue jacks.  Did I misunderstand you Walt, or are we getting
our info from different sources?

The rig in question here weighs approximately 2600 pounds, so tongue weight
should be 260.  Considering that the tow vehicle is only a 4 cylinder,
the 220 pounds of tongue weight the trailer has now is probably ideal.

BTW: What kind of 4 cylinder vehicle are using to tow a 2600 pound boat?

Rick

    Hi Rick.
    I figured that with the 4 cyl tow vec. that the wieght load on the
    hitch would be low to begin with, ie: Class 3 (I believe, if I didn't
    mix up?) is only around 150 lbs? Yes?
    
    If you overload the hitch wieght you will have steering problems
    due to the car being off balance, also braking problems. Better
    to have less wieght. I agree that with too little tounge wieght
    that you can have fishtailing. That's even worse.
    
    A boat of that size should most certainly be able to be moved about
    by hand.
    
                                     Walt
    
    P.S. Grease the bearinbg buddys after each submersion, that will
    force out any water that might have migrated into the bearing before
    it can cause damage.
    
    

    re .3, 86 volvo.
    
    220,may be ok as a tongue weight but the 2600 lbs seems a lot to
    pull with a 4 cyl.i use 2nd gear on any inclines.
    
    bought a little grease gun at lunch,all set to blast away tonite,kids
    dog wife  house and maybe even the trailer.
    
    thanks ,
    
    Q

    Be sure to use wheel bearing grease.  Regular lubrication grease
    will not work on wheel bearings.  It cannot take the heat and will
    melt and cause your bearings to burn.  Wheel bearing grease can
    handle the temperature and I believe it does a better job if water
    gets into wheel bearings.

    As stated previously in here: Lubrimatic makes small cartridges of
    trailer wheel bearing grease for those one-hand mini-grease guns.
    I bought a rack-pack of 4 cartridges of this stuff at Bliss Marine
    in Woburn. Cost about $5. I liked them so much I bought a grease
    gun just for these cartridges, so I didn't have to purge my gun
    every time I had to do the trailer (and the stern-drive gimbal bearing
    ass'y., and universal joints. ;^) 
    Now I'm all set to do the job right. I believe that
    this type of grease is also recommended for applications such as
    driving through mud-bogs, as stated on the cartridge body itself.
    
    BTW-- If you didn't read the other note about this type of grease:
    This grease is specifically formulated for extreme pressure, and
    very good resistance to water of all types (except low-level nuclear
    waste!). It's also got good high-temperature performance, which
    makes it great forjust about anything that can be greased that goes
    on water/land/or both. 
                                 
    Mike

    too late,after shoting everything in site with my greaser i finally
    shot the bearings.it pushed the front seal back out thus tightening
    the spring,however it oozed out the front,OVERFILL? WILL IT HURT
    ANYTHING?
    i used that little lubrimatic gun but did not notice the grease,it
    just came in a single cylinder as part of the package for about
    $10.don't know if it is bearing grease,axle grease,hair
    grease,fingernail grease or what.just stucc in the cartridge on
    did a clint eastwood on old buddy bearing himself.
    have i screwn up?
    thanks 
    Q

    
   RE: < Note 398.8 by CGVAX2::CLARK_J >
      
    	Probably a good idea to check the grease and make sure
    it's recommended for wheel bearings and water applications.
    
    	The grease is supposed to ooze out the front, that is where
    the old grease exits the bearing. Did you keep applying grease
    until *new grease* started oozing out?
    
    Rick

    no,i applied it until that seal moved out,and i could press on the
    piston and feel some tension,then i stopped.i went back later and
    found a small amount had ooozed out the front.i thought it pushed
    the old or ovrefill out the back(or is there a back to come out
    of).
             Q

    
    > is there a back to come out?
    
      Not that I know of, all the bearings I've done release the old
    grease from the front and sort-of wrap it around the grease gun
    nozzle.
    
    Rick	

    The grease that oozes out is coming from the slider part. They sell
    a plastic cap called a "bearing bra" to keep this grease from
    splattering all over the rim and tire.
    
    BTW- how does the grease fitting:
    	a) get the old grease past the new grease
    	b) know which is new and which is old 
    
    Larry  ;^)
    

     I've thought about installing bearing buddys a few times, but have stayed
     with the clean, inspect and repack method 'cause I guess I like the
     peace of mind I get from seeing & 'feeling' the bearings my investment
     is riding on.  When you read the box and talk to people that have them
     installed I get the impression that the attitude is that you never have
     to bother with bearings again as long as you keep the buddys pressurized
     with grease.  

        Do those of you that use them periodically disassemble and inspect 
     your wheel bearings?  How often?

     From what I can surmise from examining the product, it seems that they
     work on a positive pressure principal.  You pump grease thru them untill
     the entire hub assembly is full.  The little spring loaded piston then
     keeps a constant (3 psi, I think) pressure on this hub full of gook
     which serves to keep water out.  It would seem that this scheme depends
     completely on the integrity of the rear bearing seal.  Anything less
     than a great seal will allow the grease and pressure to ooze out and
     allow water in.  Over time, even with a great seal enough grease will
     be lost so a refill is required to restore pressure.  

     When you install them for the first time, do you prepack the bearings
     and pre-fill the hubs.  It would seem that getting grease by (thru)
     the outside bearing into the hub and past the rear bearing to completely
     fill all space whould take considerable pumping, and the pressure
     developed pumping against the outside bearing might create enough
     backpressure to give a 'fake' full indication resulting in no grease
     going to the rear bearings.  I mean, how do you know you have fully
     lubed the hub, and not just filled the space between the cap and bearing?

     As I said earlier, I 'feel better' seeing and feeling, and I just get the
     impression that bearing buddys maight promote a false sense of well
     being which will result in ignoring a critical maintainence item.

     BUT, not exactly loving diving into a pot of grease a couple of times
     a year, talk to me....so many people swear by them there must be answers
     to my doubts.


                                   Not from Missouri, just sounds like it

                                                    Tom

    I've used bearing buddys for three years and about 6500 miles of
    trailering. They do the job.
    
    I have to replenish them (pump them up) every third trip (250 miles).
    When I stripped and cleaned them last fall, the internals were in
    perfect shape.
    
    One reason they seem to work is that a small amount of grease is
    passing by the rear seal each time the hubs get warmed up on the
    road. The excess gets thrown onto the inside of the wheel rim and
    needs to be cleaned now and then, but seldom gets on the boat.
    
    Given that nearly all of my launchs and haulouts are in salt water,
    I'd say they helped greatly, But if the grease is not gradually be
    changed (by oozing) and kept under constant pressure pressure by
    bearing buddy's spring, then perhaps your experience would be 
    different.
    
    Jerry
     

    so there is no possibility of overfilling as the exceess will alwys
    seek its own way out?
    correct?
    
    after i wrote the above paraq i checked my book.it says in 3 places
    "dont overfill" overfilling can damage the seals.
    
    maybe i need to drain some out,or am i making a bfd on=ver zippo
    
                  Q

    re: .15
    
    The excess will find its way out, and will be all over your rim
    and tire as another noted. For about 5 bucks you can get a pair
    of "Bearing Buddy Bras" which fit snugly over the Bearing Buddy
    and prevent the excess grease from flying all over the place - well
    worth the investment!!
    
    Jon

The 'bras' dont solve the real problem- that is the grease coming out of the 
inside seal. You can also eaisly blow the inner seal completely out with a simple
hand grease gun. I use them on my trailer, and agree they are good devices,
but like most things, they dont solve all the problems.

Moved by moderator

              <<< VICKI::SIE$DATA0:[NOTES$LIBRARY]BOATS.NOTE;1 >>>
                            -<     PowerBoats     >-
================================================================================
Note 667.0                  Trailer Wheel Hub Grease                  No replies
WJOUSM::MILLS "Intriguing"                           15 lines   3-MAY-1990 16:13
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last fall I followed the instructions in this notes file to winterize 
my boat, motor, and trailer.  All is well so far!  The question I have is, 
I disassembled the hubs as directed and cleaned everything up.  Nice and 
clean!  This spring I reassembled the hubs with new inner seals after 
repacking the inner bearings.  After proper adjustment of the bearing 
tension nut, I replaced the bearing buddy and started pumping in the 
grease.  I noticed real quick that I couldn't pump enought grease into the 
bearing buddy to fill the hub cavity.  Since the bearing buddy is designed 
with an overfill hole to release excess grease, it leaked before enough 
pressure was created to pass the outer bearings.

How do you people fill the hub cavity?

Thanks again,
Rich

    I did mine last weekend.
    
    As I am reassembling the wheel (with new grease seals every year, since
    I
    can't seem to get them out without damaging them) I add grease wherever
    I can - I try to fill the hub as best I can before the outer bearing
    goes in. In any case there will be trapped air. Just keep the grease
    gun handy. As you drive, the grease that is behind the piston will
    displace air. If you wait 1/2 hour (we sailors take that long to
    get the mast up and the boat rigged) and fill the bearing buddies
    just before you launch, I have never worried about the air - as long
    as the piston isn't against the inner stop.
    
    Keep a spare cartridge of grease handy. If you hit an air pocket, it
    may take a lot of grease.
    
    After a few trips, all of the aid should be out.
    

    re: .18
    
    There is a remote possibility that the boat trailer has sealed bearings 
    in the wheels.  You couldnt push grease past them.  The fix is to go to 
    a bearing store and get the bearings in the unsealed version.
    
                                                        Tom

    
    Sealed bearings on a trailer's axle? Wheel bearings are tapered
    roller bearings - there is no way to seal the bearings - and no need
    to, since by design, they're made to sit in an enclosed hub with
    some grease.
    
    
      Just add a little grease at a time (as much as the bearing-buddy
    will let you) and you'll never have to worry. Even if there IS some
    air in the hub, the positive pressure exerted by the BB will not
    allow anything to enter from the outside.
    
    
    					Kenny

Hello All,

I've read thru all the notes I could find regarding bearings and bearing 
buddies and I'm still trying to decide if I need them.

My trailer (Venture, tandem axle) is equipped with grease fittings on the 
end of the spindle.  The exit hole from the spindle seems to be just at the 
inside bearings and grease (after some pumping) does make it's way out of 
the outside bearings (and all over the wheel if I don't use caps).  Anyway, 
my question is, do I need bearing buddies if I regularly pump in some 
grease until it squeezes out the outside ?  Or should I install 
bearing buddies (and forever give up access to the built in fittings) 
and trust that the grease will migrate to the inside and fill the cavity ?

Thanks for any help,

Peter.

PETER, the grease system you have on your trailer is the best system that I know
of for properly greasing wheel bearings without dissasembly of the hub.

If grease is comming out of the back of the hubs then, 1. you hvae to much
grease or 2. the seals are bad.

If you feel that the grease is not going thru the spindle properly then hub
removal should be done and flush out the grease passage ways.
How long has it been since this was done?----grease does tend to get a little 
hard over time kinda like clogging of the arteries!!!

Bearing buddies generaly are for spindles that are not equipped with your system.


						Jack  (ex boat mechanic)

    fwiw: My trailer has a similar (sounding) system - and the greasing
    instructions clearly show an outlet port for old grease to be pushed out
    of the inner race when new grease is applied to the nipple at the
    outside/center of the spindle...

re .23 and .24

I can see grease being pushed out from the outer bearings and I know (cause 
I saw it) the exit hole from the spindle is around the inner race.  It all 
seems to be working fine.  But that wasn't my question.

I was asking if this system, assuming relatively regular greasing, is 
enough to keep water out of the bearings and everything in good shape.

Or, should I install bearing buddies (and covering up the grease fitting on 
the spindle) and trust that:
	1) they will do a better job of keeping water out
	2) the grease will eventually migrate thru, and fill, the hub
	   and adequately grease the inner bearings

Over the weekend I had a bearing fail and there wasn't much left inside.  
So, this weekend I'm going to pull, and replace if necessary, the remaining 
wheels and bearings.  And I'm just trying to decide whether to spend the 
extra $40 for two pair of bearing buddies...

Thanks for the help so far,

Peter.

    
    
    	I dont know if any of you have heard of a system called sea bears
    
    	it basically seals the hubs and runs auto trans inside.
    
    	coming out of the back of the hub is a clear looped hose used for 
    
    	inspecting the level and colour of the fluid. 
    
    	if it turns white water has entered, if it gets low some has seeped
   	
    	out.
    
    	apparently running auto trans is better for the bearings??
    
    	i fitted them approx 6 months ago and not had a problem yet.
    
    	however i didnt like the hose joiner in the kit so used a brass one
    
    	instead of plastic .
    
    	to inspect i simply look at the hose.
    
    	no more greasing and pulling apart for inspection.
    
    
    	if interested i could find the contact here (the next olympic city)
    
    tks the other reg
    
    

	re -25	Peter,

 With the system you have, you don't need the bearing buddies (actually your
 system is better)..... The buddies need to force the grease through the outer
 bearing first to get to the inner, where yours feeds the bearings from the
 middle.....

	The way the buddies (well both system) keep the water out, is from the
 pressure that the grease generates wanting to get out..... What I have been
 doing for years, is to pump new grease into the buddies everytime I use the
 trailer...... This way, they're always full, and the grease is always trying
 to get out, keeping the H2O out ;-)......

	Norm

    I also have made it a religious practice to gun the hubs every time the
    trailer is moved - to the point that I'll give them a couple of squirt
    when I arrive at the ramp and hit them again when I get home...
    

re: .27 and .28

Just what I wanted to hear !  (Didn't really want to spend the extra $40). 

So, I'll pull everything, check out the condition, and keep a loaded grease gun handy.  
Hopefully I won't get stuck at 6:00am on my way to somewhere important (and fun) again.

Thanks for the info !

Peter.