Conference vicki::boats

    Just happened to get the Sept issue of BOATING yesterday and they
    have some "Tips on financing, trading up, and buying. Some info
    may seem obvious, but still not a bad set of articles.
    
    Ernie

    I'm in thge process of trading up at this time. Please give me a
    call at 276-9247 and I would be happy to talk to you about my
    experiences in doing this. I'm choosing not to write it here only
    because of the amount of info and I'm not the worlds fastest typist.
    
    Fred Smith
    

    what size boat are you thinking to move up ?
    I moved up from 25' Bayliner to 27' Sea Ray last year.
    If you need more detail info, give me a call 297-5829.
    

    My personal situation is that I am considering upgrading from a
    17' Sea Ray to something in the 21-24' range.  The timetable that
    I am working under is not urgent, the most likely time for me to
    do this will be sometime next spring.
    
    For those of you who have left phone numbers to call, I thank you
    and will attempt to call when I get back into the office.  
    
    Regards,
    
    Dennis

    
       For those of you who have moved up to larger boats, or are
    considering doing so, how much of an increase in size do you consider
    to be worth the effort involved?
    
       Let me see if I can clear that up (even I'm confused by it). The
    author of a prior note indicated that he moved from a 25' to a 27'
    boat. Is there really a significant difference in accomodations
    that the extra 2 feet has bought you? Wouldn't a jump from 25' to
    30' (or more) have provided a better cost/added-features ratio?
    
       I raise the question because I've thought about making the jump
    to a larger boat as well, and typically haven't really been impressed
    by boats only a few feet larger than my current 25'er. On the
    other hand, I may just sell the damn thing and move to a land-locked
    state (that would be the sane thing to do, financially speaking).
    
    
    Frank
    

    My $.02 worth...I am activly looking to move up and currently have
    a 21 ft/230 HP boat that new would run in the low 20's. I am looking
    at boats in the 24-25 foot range that cost up around 35-40k. Sure
    I would like to get in a 28-29ft boat but those (we are talking
    sport fishing boats ie. big $$$) and these run $60-$90k. Besides
    purchase cost there is the cost to run these boats, in the 24 foot
    range you can still power with single 200-300HP class engines,
    get much bigger and you need twin engines of the same class to do
    the job. This gets in to some serious $$ at the gas pump every
    trip out not mention the added maintenance cost of twins ect.
    
    What gain will I realize going from 21 to 24 feet? Well, I will get
    offshore on some days that I would have to stay inside on now. Also
    I will get more storage space for the ridiculous amounts of gear
    one needs to fish offshore effectively. The boats I am considering
    will allow me to overnight on the boat where the one I have now
    has a cabin but is only suitable to munchkins. Lastly there are
    many things in the current boat that I would change if I had the
    chance (now is that chance), but I might add, NO boat I have seen
    is perfect, I often wonder what the engineers were doing when they
    designed so of these things.
    
    Hope this helps...
    
    Bruce

    I should give you little more detail info on my move from 25 to
    27.   My 25' bayline had 8' beam width a single engine and could
    sleep 3 adults. The 27' has 10'beam, aft-cabin and "twin engines"
    Now 5 adults can sleep.  So my move gave me 2 feet on both directions.
    Moving up does cost a lot:
    
    1. slip cost
    2. winter storage
    3. insurance
    4. gas
    5. maintemance
    
    So you have weight all factors and check you wallet then jump.
    But I do enjoy very much with my new boat inspite of additional
    $$$$.

    I guess you could say that I moved up a scoch this year. The whole
    thing started with a friend( as they often do) Last year my buddie
    had a very nice Bertram 25 that he spent the weekends on, My wife
    thought that would be just the thing. A few coctails and lobsters
    at the dock saw to that.
    She said we should get rid of the 16 ft and get a 25 to leave at
    the dock- No trailer- No hassle!
    
    But before we did. My friend bought a 30 ft Villa Vee. This made
    the lowly bertram look very sparten, Alas, No longer suitable for
    weekends... So we looked for a 27 fter.. nice but look at that 30!
    WOW! Now thats a boat.
    
    I'll grant that the 30 is much nicer than the 25, But also three
    times the cost. 
    
    Things to ensure before you buy.  DOCK SPACE- It gets limited when
    you hit the 30 ft range. at anywhere from $45 to 100 a ft . You
    have to know where you will keep it.
    
    Winter Storage- Is now longer " Park it in the backyard"
    
    Fuel- As Bruce said More expencive.  Hey Abdul Fill her up!
    
    You will now need to buy a dingy, So you can get to shore .
    
    You have to buy Bigger and Better fishing tackle, Because the fish
    are bigger offshore! 
    
    You need more gear to meet the needs of the boat.
    
    All in All would I do it again?               SURE! WHY NOT!
    
    
    Oh. Almost forgot. You can use it as a Tax Deduction!!   YEA!!!!
    

>>>    Oh. Almost forgot. You can use it as a Tax Deduction!!   YEA!!!!
    
Really? How?

    
       Back in the old BOATS conference I had asked for information
    regarding the deductibility (?) of interest which you pay on your
    boat loan. Along with the replies I received, and some research
    of my own, I discovered that YES, you can deduct this interest,
    and so, I did!
    
       Quoting from IRS Publication 17 (Rev. Nov 1987):
    
    	"To be fully deductible as home mortgage interest, the interest
       must be on a debt that is secured by property that is your qualified
       home (main home or second home).
    
    	"Qualified Home.  A qualified home includes your main home and
       a second home. A second home may be one that you do not occupy,
       a home that you occupy part of the year, or a home that you rent
       out...
    
    	"You must own the home in order for it to qualify. A home can
       include a house, cooperative apartment, condominium, house trailer,
       or boat, provided it includes basic living accomodations, including
       sleeping space, toilet and cooking facilities."
    
    
       So, as long as the boat meets those requirements (bed of some
    sort, head, and galley) you can deduct ALL of the interest. Since
    I'm not an accountant, I suggest you talk to yours and get his/her
    blessing before you take the deduction.
    
    
    Frank
    

    Yea. Tax Deduction ! Thats the ticket ! 
    
    Pretty much as Frank said. But let me add a bit.
    
    The boat must have "PERMENANT" Beerthing, galley and head facilitys.
    
    That does not mean an air mattress on deck, a sterno stove and a
    five gal bucket.
    
    Let's deduct the WHOLE THING. Sure your interest is deductable,
    but lets use our imagination shall we? 
    
    Let's see. HUMMMM- How about -?_ Lets get a commereicial fishing
    lic. and document the vessel and get our 6 pack cap't lic.
    
    Now the entire cost of the boat, Dock fee's, fuel, Insurance,
    maintaince,fishing tackle, bait, and all ( Even the beer) can be
    written off as a Business operating expence.
    
    Hey! Any body got a job open in the entepernur dept?
    
                That's how you do it. I should write a boat book ? Eh?
    
                                               Walt
    

    Don't you have to prove you earn your living from the boat?
    
    Course then again, if Trump can do it.....
    
    George (who went to the Boston In Water Boat Show and wants a boat...
           ...a BIG boat)

    Re: .11
    
    Walt, How does one get the commercial fishing license and where
    is the best place to take a course for the six-pack license. What
    do these things cost also?
    
    Thanks.
    
    Fred Smith
    

    You can get a commercial license from the department of marine
    fisheries in boston. Cost is $100 for a boat license and $50 for
    a personel license. Courses for the 6 pack license are offered by
    various companies and run around $600 (guaranteed, attend till
    you pass the test). A chapmans book would probably have 90% of the
    info you need, I would say for any competent boater the test is
    the easy part and getting the 360 days is the tough part. Here in
    New England getting to use your boat 30 times in a season is putting
    it to good use, thats alot of seasons to get that 6 pack. The way
    to beat it is if you were in the navy and served on a ship for while
    you may already have your seatime and yet not really know much
    about boating (not to offend anyone here what I mean is if you
    were a computer tech. on an aircraft carrier you may not know anything
    about navigation, rules of the road etc.)
    
    Bruce

    Forgive what maybe a stupid question for this file but what does
    a 6 pack license allow yu to do?
    
    George

    
    RE: .15
    >>    a personel license. Courses for the 6 pack license are offered by
    >>  various companies and run around $600 (guaranteed, attend till
    >>  you pass the test).


Geez, and I thought I had a "6 pack" license that came with my first boat.

                            ;^)


Rick W.

    A six pack allows you to take up to 6 passengers for hire on your
    boat. I am not sure if there is any vessal size restrictions and
    I know you are only licensed for certain waters but am not sure
    about the restrictions. Until I get close to the number of sea
    days these questions are somewhat mute. Basically you need the
    license to have people pay you for time spent on your boat. You
    do not need this type of license to be a commercial fisherman or
    to pay crew members.
    
    To be a captain on a party boat there are 'bigger' licenses for
    vessals of a certain tonage and distances at sea (inshore and
    offshore).
    
    Bruce

    	I just read this morning about two new Maine built boats being
    introduced. Bass Harbor Marine (BHM) and Frye are both introducing
    35' - 36' Downeast style commercial/pleasure boat hulls. They may
    interest someone looking in that range. 

    As Capt Cod said you don't need the 6 pack lic. to be a commerical.
    Just pay the Lic. fee and your in. As in any business you must prove
    intent to profit to the revenuer's. and you must make profit in
    two out of five years. This is simple. Just catch and sell some
    fish.
    If you have a six pack lic. you may charter you boat out to fishermen,
    divers, or whale watchers, or anyone who will pay.
    
    You can "Bareboat" Charter even if you don't have a lic. but I'm
    not enthused about stangers taking my boat out without me.
    
    More about 6 pack- You also need a valid C.P.R. and first Aid
    certificate before you can take the test. Thats all I'm needing.
    
    re: Schools- Buy a Chapmans and study,study,study. Its also a good
    Idea to get ahold of a "Bluejackets" Manual for more info.
    
    Sea time- I just checked my NAVPERS DD214 and I've more than double
    the time needed- Bruce - Are you shure? I can't find that tidbit
    of info in the C.G. reg's??   
    
    BTW Time spent crewing on anothers boat is counted.
    

    	My reply .19 has a few errors. The boat builders are Young Bros
    and Frye Point Marine (or something like that). Frye Point builds
    the BHM. If anyone really cares I will get more info.
    Paul 

    
                   ***  MAINE COASTAL BOATS FOR CRUISING  ***
    Paul,
    
    I am very interested in moving up from a 26' 8' beam with single
    230 Hp I/O.  I attended the Boston in the Water Boat Show and 
    basically saw (2) choices.  The Bertram, Carver, Egg Harbor all
    starting at 28' and up to 32' seemed to interest me.  But, as 
    stated earlier the additional room of a 10' beam and twin blocks
    seems to be going to add a lot of gas $$$.
    
    The Grady Whites, Rabolo, Baha, etc I like for seaworthyness but
    they don't offer the cruiser comforts and ammenities and are still
    expensive for what you get.
                                         
    I heave seen articles on Maine Coastal Boats in the 27' to 30' range
    and they also mention Diesel vs. Mogas.  They seem more seaworthy
    but I still want a 10' beam and all the ammenities shower, head,
    galley, sleeping for (4) adults and a single engine with power and
    a reasonable gas bill.  They seem to fit this categrory in engine
    and hull design.  What about the goodies and cruising speed???
      
    Most suppliers wanted only to take custom orders and build 15 to 20 a
    year.  Do you have a boat of this type or experience with them???
    
    How do they compare to the 28' in the $40k range, the sport fishing
    jobs at $60 to $90k are out of the question for me!!!
                                                                      
    Looking for the Next One that will take me to Maine no matter what
    the Wave Size!!!!
    
    Steve

Re .22>

Steve,
	I currently run offshore in my 22' Aquasport, the Joanie - B. This
is my second season with her. I considered a Maine Coastal/Downeast style 
boat when I was shopping early last year. One boat in particular caught my 
eye. It was a 25 footer with a 10 foot beam. It is built by General Marine 
somewhere in southern Maine. The boat was offered with a gas inboard, galley, 
head etc for $31k. I saw one rigged for tuna with a tower, pulpit and fighting
chair for $50K. However, as you stated, they are custom built and I would have 
had to loose the whole season while waiting for one to be built for me.
 	Since then my interest in downeasters has increased with the 
realization that the limiting factors to cruising speed are sea conditions 
and $$; not the boats top speed. Although my boat is a deep V and can hit 
over 40 mph, there are few times that I can maintain anything above 25 knots 
without either going broke at the gas pump or jarring everything including 
my teeth loose. The downeasters offer good tracking and fuel economy at a
somewhat reduced speed compared to the sportier boats. They are custom built, 
so you can get all the amentities that you are willing to pay for. I don't 
believe that they are any less expensive than the production boats however. 
	I would give serious consideration to a downeaster if I were to move up 
but right  now I am putting so much $$ into the Joanie - B that I think it will 
be a long time before I part with her...unless Charley Tuna cooperates... :^)
	If you want more information about downeasters, I can get the address/
phone numbers of a number of Maine boat builders as well as boat fitters
that will finish off a bare hull to your specifications.

Hope this helped,
Paul

    Paul,
    
      25ft, 10ft beam, head and galley for 31K? Tell me more!!
    
    Bruce

    Re .24>
    
    Bruce,
    	I'll get the particulars and post them tomorrow. 
    Paul

    General Marine - 24'9", 9'6" beam.
    
    Airport Industrial Park
    Biddeford, Maine 04043
    
    207-284-7517
    
    
    Steve

      
    
    The two happiest days in a boat owners life:
    
                                           The day he bought it.
                                           and the day he sold it.
                                      
                                              

    The September issue of "Boating" magazine has some good articles
    on trading up. They cover things like financing, insurance,
    trade-ins etc.
    
    Rick W.

    
    	Trade in value, as listed in boat dealers' blue books, as well
    as average retail (as listed in their blue books) is disappointingly
    low;  but just TRY finding a boat like yours for the price they
    claim is average retail, even for a beat up one.  My conclusion
    is that private sale is the only way (for me) to go and that private
    purchase may be how I move up to my next boat.  Alternatively I'll
    be keeping THIS boat for quite a while, i.e. until MY perception
    of its depreciation is a lot closer to dealers' perceptions of
    devaluation;  but then again I believe in the  "Time value of Toys"
    concept.

    	Reg
    

Bruce,
	General Marine is located at the Airport Industrial Park in Biddeford
Maine 04005. Their phone number is 207-284-7517. Actual dimensions of the 
boat are:

	Length 	24'- 9"
	Beam	9'- 6"
	Draft 	2'- 6"
	
	I saw the boat at the Portland Boat Show in February(?) of 1987. The 
price varies quite a bit because the boat is custom made, but the price I 
remember was about $31k outfitted as I described in my earlier reply. It may 
have gone up some since then but I doubt if it would have changed all that 
much. The current advertisements are quoting $18K for a complete hull, less 
engine and shafting. I think that version was about $16K two years ago. 
	Its a soft chined, semi planing hull with a full keel. I remember
talking about speed but you should get this kind of info directly from GM 
because its so subject to misinterpretation. 
	If you're interested in this type of boat it certainly would be worth 
a call and/or a trip to Biddeford.
Paul

    Hard Chine, soft chine what does this mean??
    
    Bruce

    Bruce.
    Teh "Chine" is the point where the sides meet the bottom. The Hard
    chine ,soft chine refers to the angle of the junction. ie: Hard
    is a sharp angle whereas soft is more curved .
    A novi syle hull like mine is concidered to be soft. You cris hull
    is hard. There are many variations in between. Think of a alum jon
    boat as being very hard and a 55 gal barrel as being very soft.
    
                              Know what I mean?
    
    P.S. Bruce you might like the Hinter Holler . I get you the spec's.
    Maybe we could eeven sell a few. Want a special deal??
    
                                          Walt
    

    
    .32>  Soft chine = soft ride
    
       ???
    
       I don't see how a soft chine will give you a softer ride than
    a hard chine boat. The soft chine boat will tend to roll more than
    a boat with a hard chine (since there's less "flatness" at the edge
    of the hull).
    
       In fact, from my handy-dandy copy of "Chapman's Piloting", they
    give the following definitions (pgs 18-19):
    
    	"The lower outer part of the hull where the sides meet the bottom
       is called the TURN OF THE BILGE. If the boat is flat or vee-bottomed,
       the bottom and the topsides meet at a well-defined angle rather
       than a gradual curve -- this is the CHINE of the boat. The more
       abrupt the angle of intersection of these planes, the HARDER the
       chine. SOFT CHINE craft have a lesser angle; this term is sometimes
       applied to round-bottom boats, but this is not correct. Some modern
       boats are designed with MULTIPLE CHINES (longitudinal steps) for
       a softer ride at high speeds in rough water; this is often referred
       to as DEEP-VEE desgn."
    
    
    
    Frank

    P.S. - Nobody should be without a copy of Chapman's. It's generally
    available at any marine supply store and it only costs $25.
    
    P.P.S - From the "Useless Information" department: On the inside
    cover of Chapman's 57th Edition is a portion of a chart showing
    Eaton's Neck. This is on the north shore of Long Island, and it
    just happens to be where I live! Look, right there on the east side
    of Price Bend, about 3/4 of an inch NW of Winkle Point. (I live
    on Old Winkle Point Road!) Well, I feel better now.
    

    Yep. I agree with Mr. Chapman. : But a soft chine boat with a rounded
    bottom will defintly give a softer ride.
    
    Let me explain- If a wave were to hit a Hard chine boat and a soft
    chine boat broadside. What happens? 
    
    One the hard chine the wave lifts the hull parralell to the curve
    of the wave. causing the hull to slam down when its point of leverage
    is past.
    
    On the Soft chine boat it does indeed roll. allowing the hull to
    conform to the curve in the wave, giving a much stabler smoother
    ride.
    
    Hence the reason that all "Seaworthy" Vessels have soft chines.
     
    Look at whale Dorys and sailboats made to handle waves that would
    capsize any V hull or Mod V or Step V hull. Check out the hull shape
    of Lobster boats. These are made to handle rough weather in New
    England winter waters.
    
                                              Walt
    

	Well I guess I unknowingly started an interesting topic with my 
soft chine remark. That's good because it gives me an opportunity to bring
up a question that has been bugging me about the downeasters. How do they 
act while not under power? 
	Its well known that a deep V rocks from side to side a lot more 
than a modified V or a relatively flat bottom boat but what about these 
keeled, soft chined boats? The soft chine will allow the boat to roll 
fairly freely but I assumed that the keel may provide enough resistance 
to offset this. I don't think the keels are exceptionally heavy so that 
shouldn't apply like it does for a sailboat for example. I've watched 
the lobster boats at work and they seem to roll around quite a bit.
    On the other hand I've seen a lot of downeasters with tall tuna
    towers so they must be fairly stable.

	Does any one have any first hand info? 

	Walt does your boat have a keel?

Paul                                                           

    Paul.
    And interested others.
    
    A downeast style / Novi style boat tends to roll a bit more freely
    than a modified V will at rest, But won't slap you around like a
    deep V will. If you want predictability (sp) in a boat then go for
    a soft chine hull.
    Yes my boat has a keel but only a 3/4 skeg ,Not a full deadwood.
    
    I think it handles verywell in rough water and the aft is flat bottom
    enough not to roll excessivly. When other boats are rock and rolling
    at the dock I have very little motion. and under power I have better
    headway running at hull speed in "Snotty" weather than any pure
    planing hull has. I don't have the top speed, But if I had more
    horse power I'm sure I could match some cayon runners. I only
    have a chevy 350. Now a Cat 1200 would be just the ticket! 
    
    Paul - If your in the area give me a ring and you can try "Rainbow
    Chaser" first hand. It will give you a good idea of the hull style.
    
                                            Walt
    

    Walt,
    	Thanks for the offer. I'd like to crew with you on one of your
    trips and of course you are welcome up here as well. The best way to 
    get the feel for different hull styles is on the water. I'll contact 
    you either by phone or e-mail.
    Paul

    Ok. If you want to drool over a bigger boat, I saw the one for me.
    I went to the Boston Sportfishing show yesterday and there she was.
    35 ft of the prettiest boat you ever seen, Robin egg blue hull with
    kelly green bottom paint topsides entirely of teak and holly except
    of course for the inlaid marque work of a sailfish in the deck.
    
    This boat could be boarded by invitation only so I didn't have to
    fight a crowd for a look, It's the Custom made Bimmini of course.
    
    Now lets see ? If I sold rainbow chaser and put 20% down thats 56
    Thousand and I financed the rest at 10% annual, Payments would only
    be 2,400 per month plus insurance and dock fees of course.
    
    They eeven have there own fishing tourny . It's tag and release
    with a 5 K prize and 300 to enter. It's on the honer system as far
    as who wins; Natch!
    
                                         Walt
    

    After a lot of looking and talking I finally put my money where
    my mouth is and bought something. I was going to put this
    note in the "when is it a good deal" note as it also apply's
    there. I was looking for a 24-26' fishing boat that you could
    overnight in. After looking at numerious sport fishing boat makers and 
    models including Robalo, Rampage, Wellcraft, Sea Ox, Chris Craft, Hydra
    Sports, Proline, North Coast, Black Watch, Grady White and others
    I can't even remember. I finally chose Grady White. Once I knew
    I wanted a grady I had to come to fiscal reality. I could afford
    either a new Gulfstream 23 rigged with anything I wanted or a used
    Sailfish 25 with the right set of options that would bring it down
    to my price range.  Buying new is always nice plus you get just
    what you want but Joe A. convinced me that I would grow out of the
    23 to quick and it did not have the real overnight capablities of
    the 25. So now that I new I wanted a 25 I had to start looking for
    the right deal on used 25. I decided to stay with single i/o
    power as opposed to twin outboards because the price would be lower
    and the fuel consuption would be less. There were many '85's advertised
    in my price range but in '86 Grady changed the deck layout and I
    wanted the newer layout. So this meant finding an '86 that I could
    afford and maybe dreaming about an '87 (also in '87 grady started
    putting the 330 HP OMC in the 25's where before it was only 260's).
    So my dream boat was an '87 with a 330 i/o, but I saw several of
    these advertised in the mid to high forties, a good 7-10K more
    than I could afford. Then one day Steve J, sends me some mail
    about an '87 w/ a 330 i/o in it for 42K. Turns out the same boat
    had been listed at 49k in the globe for most of the summer (i had
    actually called about it and written it off as having to many
    options and too high a price). So I gave the dealer another
    call and he tells me about the boat and it is loaded with every
    option I want and even some that I didn't. I tell him that it
    sounds like a nice boat I can't afford it, so he says 'I WANT TO
    SELL IT, come a take a look and we will see what we can do'.
    Turns out the boat has been sitting for a year in his yard (he was
    a little high at 49k, 45K would have been right) and he sells
    big yachts (silverton, maineship, jersy yacht, pearson) and he really
    does not deal in fishing boats. So the wife, my 1.5 year old son and
    I take a look at the boat, I fall in heavy lust with and it decide I
    must have it. After telling him again that it is a great boat but
    I can't afford it he asks me what I can afford. So I tell him, he
    comes back and we are 3k a part, I tell him if he can come down
    another 2k I will put a deposit down otherwise I can't afford it.
    After a few minutes  he say's 'I made a big mistake with this boat
    and you are bennifiting from that mistake, give me a depost of $500'.
    I should mention that he gave me 2k over wholesale blue book on
    my chris sight unseen (pictures only!). Bottom line was I paid
    38K for the grady (original list at 49) and got almost retail
    on my trade. Is this a good deal?
    
    The boat in brief is an '87 (with only 1 year in water), 330 OMC
    i/o with about 50hrs on it, dual batteries, shore power, hot water
    heater, full head w/ shower, 2 burner stove, outriggers, downriggers,
    Loran, VHF, lowrance X5 ff, full teak swim platform, teak bow pulpit,
    trim tabs,  full canvas, live well etc...
    
    I closed yesterday. Winter storage and bottom paint and spring
    commisioning included. Can't wait till April.
    
    Bruce
                                                                

    Excellent story. You brought us from the 'urge' to satisfaction
    with the added extra bonus: A DATA POINT ($). Thanks for sharing the
    experience. Bruce, do you happen to have a feel for  what your boat 
    would have sold for (negotiated price) 'brand new'? 
    
    Another 'data point' :
    
    A relative purchased the 1987 23' Gulfstream (in Nov. '86) w/ gil
    bracket and twin 150 hp Yamahas (counter rotation), custom canvas, 
    X-4 lorrance, Raynav 570, Horizon II VHF, coast guard pkg. w/ anchor, 
    dual batteries etc. Also he had the pulpit addition to the bow. >> $47K.
    
    /MArk

    The boat new in '87 cost 45K without the electronics, outriggers,
    downriggers.
    
    Shaffer outriggers:		$800
    PENN 620 down riggers:      $400
    Apleco 6100 Loran:          $700
    Polaris Regency VHF:	$250
    Lowrance X5 fishfinder:	$500
    				====
    			       $2650
    
    To help put things in perspective the delta between the new price
    of my '86 chris and the trade allowance he gave me was only 3K.
    The grady is a far superior boat to the chris and the delta between
    the its new price and what I paid is about 9.5k. Also the grady
    has only seen 1 season in the water, my chris saw 3. 
    
    Bruce