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Conference vicki::boats

Title:Powerboats
Notice:Introductions 2 /Classifieds 3 / '97 Ski Season 1267
Moderator:KWLITY::SUTER
Created:Thu May 12 1988
Last Modified:Wed Jun 04 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1275
Total number of notes:18109

668.0. "Magnetic propulsion?" by LEDS::HORSEY () Fri May 11 1990 18:49

    Boston Herald had a picture Apr 19th 1990 of a slick speedboat, and the
    accompanying caption described it as "an artist's concept of the
    world's first ship powered by superconducting magnets instead of
    propellers. The YAMATO I, which will cost $31 million, is expected to
    be completed at a southern Japanese shipyard next year. It will have a
    98-foot hull."   
    
    Does anyone know anything about this boat, particularly how the
    propulsion by "superconducting magnets" works?      -Roy
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668.1Very interesting stuffDNEAST::OKERHOLM_PAUMon May 14 1990 16:0117
	I remember reading about magnetic propulsion for submarines in
Popular Science...or Mechanics decades ago. The concept always intrigued 
me. Its very applicable to military subs because it is totally noisless.
Perhaps advances in superconductivity are now making this concept more 
practical. 
	I can't shed any light on how they intend to do it (as I said
I read the article decades ago). I guess the hull is magnetized somehow
and because of the properties of seawater (polar ionic solution which
is somewhat conductive and has considerable mass) the magnetic field 
creates an unbalanced force on the vessel which move it through the water.	
I don't understand how an electrically neutral solution can be attracted 
to one pole versus the other but I guess it is. 
	It all sound like science fiction but I guess its real. We probably
have some subs in operation now that are under wraps for obvious security 
reasons.

Paul
668.2"Red October"GRANMA::WFIGANIAKYEAH..GET THE RED ONETue May 15 1990 14:324
    This sounds like the system they proposed in the movie Hunt for Red
    October. The Russian sub had some sort of magentic,super silent drive.
    It looked like it was real similar to the pump/jet drive of a water
    bike.
668.3BTOVT::JPETERSJohn Peters, DTN 266-4391Wed May 16 1990 16:411
    add key magnetohydrodynamics
668.4yamato ITALLIS::KUBOTAMon Jun 04 1990 14:236
    I saw a news script on this ship in Japanese news show, Today's Japan,
    on Channel 2 month ago. It was saying that super conductive material
    was  used to create a propulsion force. Left hand rule which current,
    magnetic field and force ,is the fundamental of the ship engine concept. It
    was also saying that keeping the supercoductive parts together is the
    key issue to the success of this experiements. 
668.5SDEVAX::THACKERAYMon Jun 04 1990 14:4528
    I presume that this system uses the water as the electric motor, all
    that is provided is a magnetic field probably oscillating at
    appropriate rates to suit the water density, salinity, etc. to produce
    direct thrust. To make this work, it would need maximum efficiency in
    the magnets (ie. NO resistance, hence superconductors). And probably a
    simple computer and sensors that understand the rules. The rules of
    thrust would require big company investment, probably. Pure research.
    
    A nice thing is that the drive would look like a simple tunnel through
    which the water flows, so therefore incredible drive efficiency. That
    would also assume that there are low heat losses in the drive water
    itself, probably a good assumption.
    
    The thought is really attractive. No moving parts. No propellers or
    impellors to get bent or worn. No prop. losses. Easy to clean. Inherent
    reliability of electrical systems.
    
    It's really obvious that reliability of the superconducting system is the 
    key and it has to endure all sorts of mechanical stresses, etc. If
    superconductor research finally produces reliable parts, I think we're
    going to see a revolution in boat drive systems.
    
    Does anyone have any information on the basic physics and trade-offs of
    such a system?
    
    Ray
    
    
668.6Further info...LEDS::HORSEYMon Jul 09 1990 17:1948
Recently recieved:
  From:	LEDS::COHEN        "Servo Wrong or Servo Write, It's all very Zen,
                            if you ask me"  7-JUL-1990 12:43:01.71
To:	HORSEY
Subj:	Magneto-Hydro-Dynamics

    Roy,

    I just saw (on CNN's Science & Technology Week program) a spot about
    something called MagnetoHydroDynamics (or MHD).  Apparently, it's a
    system that will incorporate Superconducting Magnets as the key
    component in a waterborne propulsion system.  DARPA is funding the
    research as part of a study in developing near-silent Submarine
    propulsion systems.  The Japanese are ahead of us in this study, and are
    expected to field a prototype within a year (our effort is scheduled as
    a 5 year program.  They did show a US prototype "engine" on the show,
    which is awaiting the completion of a large water tank so that it might
    be tested).

    The idea of this propulsion system is what was used as the premise for
    the book/movie The Hunt for Red October.  The Russian Sub was supposed
    to have just such a nearly indetectable system.  The Russians are
    rumored to actually be working along similar lines to DARPA.

    Anyway, the prototype Magnet pictured was cylindrical in shape, about 18
    feet in diameter, 30 feet long, weighing something like 97 tons, with a
    2 foot diameter bore, cut axially, down the center of the cylinder. 
    They showed an  animated graphic to explain the way the system worked. 
    Basically, the whole thing is submerged, so that water fills the center
    bore.  the magnet produces a field, like any toroidal magnet would.  An
    electrical current is passed through the water in the bore, at right
    angles to the magnetic field, and the resultant force generated by the
    interaction of the Superconducting magnets' field, and that of the
    flowing electrical current in the water, propels the water through the
    tube.

    They said the field generated by the Superconducting Magnet was 30000
    times that of the Earths Magnetic Field, and that the "production" model
    is expected to be substantially larger, though not as heavy.  They
    called the principle of operation the "Lawrence Effect", or "Lorentz" or
    something like that. They also used the term "Catapillar Propulsion".

    So, I had to send you this now, before I forgot the salient details.

    See ya.

    Randy
  
668.7SDEVAX::THACKERAYMon Jul 16 1990 15:524
    There's an article about this in this month's Popular Mechanics
    magazine.
    
    Ray
668.8Any info on this?LEDS::HORSEYThu May 23 1991 19:582
    So, it's been a year now - anybody know if the YAMATO II is in the
    water yet, and whether the propulsion system really works?