Conference vicki::boats

    Mask
    If it's the Hinkly you have in mind? Forget it. It's mine. I saw
    it first!
    Just kidding, I do know a fellow who was on it as crew however.
    
    We tried to get out of the river yesterday with no luck, How about
    you?
    
    Salvage Law- If it's abandoned ( No time limit) and you recover
    it, Its yours. Simple.
    
    It dosn't matter weather it's documented or not. If the owner trys
    to claim it back after you salvage it, Thay have a right to recover
    the vessel only after paying you for the salvage/recovery service
    that you performed. What you have is a "Mechanics" lien on the
    property.
    Let's see- At $500. per hour and it take you 10 hours ? Not bad
    eh?
    
    What do you have in mind?
    
    Do you need a diver?
    
                                Walt
    

Walt, No its not the Hinkly but it might as well be. I didn't make a dive
this weekend either. Contracted some bug..(not a lobster). Would like to
get out with you sometime before the whether prohibits...maybe you could
use some help raising those moorings. I'm still in the market for a mushroom.
Sundays are better than Saturdays.

How do you know if the vessel is abandon?  I know of a couple of guys around
town (possibly pirates) that make it a point to scope the shore(s) just after
a storm..looking for what ever happened to wash up. Word has it that they 
found an alum. skif with small outboard attached. Now you & I know that this
boat w/ #'s belongs to some poor soul who either hasn't noticed it's missing
or hasn't gone down to his/her mooring to check out the situation.
If the boat is not on its mooring...and has been blown way up into the 
marsh...can you really consider it to be abandon...OR is this when your
conscience takes over...???
  
How 'bout the sunken boat near the Salem bridge I saw the weekend before last.
I suppose if she's sunk but still attached to the mooring..its still the 
owners. But what if it broke loose of the mooring and is sunk? Can you dive
on her to salvage whats left...Or does everyone in the harbor know that the
boat belongs to old man Todd, and ya best not mess with it?

/MArk

re .0:

My understanding is that the vessel's owner retains ownership until he 
explicitly relinquishes it -- no time limit. If you take anything from 
the vessel or attempt to salvage it without the owner's permission, you 
are committing theft and can be prosecuted for it. I believe that this 
is true under well-established international law.

If you salavge a vessel, you do not thereby gain ownership. Rather, you 
have a legal claim on the vessel for your efforts. If you and the owner 
cannot agree on compensation for your efforts, an Admiralty court will 
decide. Compensation depends on difficulty of the salvage, the skill 
required, and equipment used (among other things). If you unnecesarily 
damage the vessel, your award may be reduced (I think). Awards may be as 
high as 50% of the value of the vessel and cargo (if any). If you 
attempt to salvage a boat and fail, the owner normally owes you nothing. 

By the way, if you are disabled and a passing boat offers you a tow 
using their tow rope and you accept, you have now 'salvaged' and 
the towing boat now has a legal claim on your boat for salvage. 
Fortunately the legal hassle (financial ans otherwise) involved in 
pressing a salvage claim in this circumstance is usually greater than 
the salvage award.

    Well I think if we were to swim under and drill a few holes in the
    bottom of the hull and then coat the mooring line with bacon fat
    so the water rats chewed thru it we could say, " Hey it broke loose
    and it's ours cause we found it" right?
    
    A little courtesy goes a long way, If you ( I Mean the pirates)
    return the skiff I'm sure the owner will be gratefull, and hey he
    may even do you a favor some day? Ya never know?
    
    Many times I've left my canoe pulled up in the salt marsh, And gone
    off duck hunting. Dammed will be the yahoo that tries to steal it!
    
    Re: Sunken Boat in Salem, Call the habormaster and find out who
    the owner is, Call him and see if he wants it salvaged. Its much
    easier to collect for a job that was asked for than to try and
    collect for one that wasn't.
    
    P.S. Do you have a metal locater? I think I know of a sunken Galleon
    down your way.
    
                                            Walt
    

A few years ago the owner (an insurance company) offered a large racing
sailboat (around 40') for sale 'as is, where is'. 'Where is' happened to
be 300' down off the southern New England coast. 

    You try to pirate (salvage) a boat blown from its mooring in these
    parts and you get what you deserve. That includes buckshot, baseball
    bats, the need for a new car and possibly a cancelation of your health
    and accident insurance. And the best part is nobody notices!!

    Easy fellas......
    
      I'm a law abiding upstanding citizen ...and soon to be the owner
    of a brand new Grady White in which I plan to moor in my town.
    I'm the guy with the buck-shot, the baseball bat, and whatever else
    it takes to protect my new toy.
    
    If ya paid attention to .0 base note...I said out of the people
    I've spoke to I got conflicting information. Don'cha ya think my
    ears get wide when I hear of some people looking to capitalize on
    some poor souls misfortune...especially when it deals with the area
    in which I plan to float my new pride and joy.
    
    The intent of my note was to get to the bottom (fine print) of the
    laws regarding salvage rights. Not swing baseball bats!
    
    The noter a few notes back who touched on Admirality Laws seemed
    to be right on. Further discussions over lunch include the following:
                                                                         
    If you find say a vessel abandon, you can claim salvage rights to
    items you recover. This individual stated that 'salvage rights'
    doesn't mean 'it's yours' ...it means you have a 'claim' to recover
    a fee or perhaps a portion of whats salvaged for your time/work.
    I believe Walt called this a 'Mechanics Lien'. This is the sticky
    part. When the time it takes (how much is your time worth) to recover
    the salvage approches the worth of the item it would seem that the
    item is ecentially yours...after of course discussing this with
    the owner. Any more 'useful data' to add to this note!
    
    /MArk 
    

    Mark.
    If you want to join me this Sat. I'll be recovering my lobster pots
    out on the Mud flats. It is a real wierd place to dive, Looks like
    a LUNAR landscape down there.
    
    As far as recovering/Salvage Big ticket items ie: Boats, Helocopters,
    Cars, Railroad trains ect. I would contact the owner from any marking
    on the item, ie: If I found a 58 T bird in the water, I would call
    henry ford to ask if I can have it. Know what I mean?
    
    Small stuff: I have reecovered rods and real and tackle boxes, Anchors,
    swim ladders, ect,ect. Without anyone eever saying "Hey thats mine"
    I even came up on the surface with what I thought was leaves on
    my head one time, Grabbed it to throw it off an dammed if it wasn't
    a $20 bill ?
    
    So remember if you ever find money, jewels, gold . I am making my
    claim now " Hey thats mine"
    
    I did call regarding lobster pots down at marine fisheries and they
    said tha if it's cut off and not bouy'd , It belongs to whoever
    raises it. I know of a couple hundred pots that I'm going to recover.
    
    Best yet? I salvged a cut crystal china set from the oqunquit river
    two days after blizzard of 78, A couple of houses fell into the
    river, I also got a chippindale table but it had been damaged.
    
                                 
    P'S' I'm serious about that galleon, I will be searching actively
    next spring. There is a stash on the sand also that nobody has yet
    to find. One old fellow had picked up a few K in dubloons in the
    fiftys and died with the secret of the general loc. They washed
    up on the sand after a storm.
    
                                         Walt
    

    
    
     I'm sseeing a lot of rationalization and wishful thinking in some
    of the responses on the "salvage" issue. Having had two experiences
    with "abandoned " boats- I think I can clarify the issue - The folks
    who tried to "salvage" my "abandoned" dighy on two ocassions got
    startightened out by the local Police and the USCG.
     
    First:
    
     Abandonement does not mean broken loose in a storm, morring line
    cut by vandals , or some turkey diving over your morring line.It
    means intentionally abandoning the vessel or item and giving up
    all rights
    
    Second- International laws on salvage DO NOT APPLY in rivers, harbours
    lakes or coastal waters. State and federal laws apply. Thus a boat
    breaking loose or sinking is no different than if you find a nice
    brand- new Porsche sitting in front of your house , unlocked, with
    no owner in sight. If you take the electronics from a boat you find
    washed up on a beach after a storm,and you are caught- you can be
    charged with either petty larceny or grand larceny, depending on
    the value of the item.
    
    
     I've had two incidents where my digy broke loose from it's mooring(
    once because the pea brains at the marina used it and didn't tie
    it properly, and once because som s--- for brains ran over the painter(
    I was on shore and watched this jerk do it)
    
     Now comes the interestin part- the marina saw the dingy float away
    and drift up on shore aloside the road- a woman stopped her station
    wagon and began to load it in. The yard supervisor saw what happened
    and tried to stop her- she claimed "salvage" rights on an "abandoned
    " bot. the yard called the local police who called me. I was aked
    if I wanted to press charges for grand larceny as it was a brand
    new Foibreglass dinghy- They did this beacause the woman wnet bonkers
    about the issue of salvage rights on an abandodned vessel and felt
    that she owned it. I told the police that If she refused to acknowledge
    the law- go for it. If she did back off and admit she had no right-
    tell her that if  my dinghy  should "disappear" again- I had 7 years
    to press charges. I also asked dthe police to file a report in case
    I had  to get tough. The police said this happens all the time and
    they constantly get arguments from the "salvors"- the police wer
    putting in a "get tough policy"- if it aint really abandonded-
    you're going to see a judge and et some lousy food for a while.
    
    
     In the second incident, after turkey one drines o=ver the painter
    and cuts it, before I can borrow another rowboat and while the damned
    thing is in full view of about a dozen people on shore, Turkey #2
    comes by, picks up the painter(Rope to you landlubbers), ties it
    onto one of his cleats. Of course., I'm BS and so are my neughbors
    ( this happened in the mooring area where I have a summer cottage-
    about 100' from shore)- the claims he's salvaging an abandonded
    vessel and it is now his, and away he goes.
    
    I ran to the house, called the C.G on the vhf radio, grabbed a
    nighbor who had a boat( my BIg boat was at the marina) and started
    a chase. we caught up with turkey 2 about the same time as the C.G-
    pretty much the same issue as with the woman- except the C.G REALLY
    scared this guy- he was violating both federal and state laws and
    the CG was not at all pleasant to this guy.
    
     After th CG left- I told this jerk he was very lucky- next time
    I don't call the CG- we hve had a lot of this problem at the mooring
    area, since my cottage is on a small island, acessable only by boat
    and no public roads. 
    
     Just one more case to prove the point- this little island has only
    two ferries a day, and there are no services,stores- just about
    75 homes. Some of the local wharf rats cam over on the ferry one
    fine morning , drank themselves silly , and missed the ferry back.
    To solve there problem, They stole a boat from my neighbor- he had
    just arrived, pulled his nice brand new skiff up on the beach and
    carried his provisions up to the house. When he walked down to the
    beach, he saw these caharcters speedig away in his brand new boat.
    
     we saw what direction they went- called the CG and Police
    
    Two weeks later, the police found the boat. Some guy had it in his
    yard, was painting the hull a different color, and was claiming
    "salvage" rights on an "abandonded" vessel. We found out that this
    wasn't the first time this cvharacter had found a boat and decided
    since nobody was around, that he owned it.
    
    My neighbor ain't the sympathetic kind when it comes to his posessions-
    that character was convicted of grand larceny.He did find the boat
    on the beach- the kids that stole it left it there.- It still was
    not abandionded by the owner.
    
    Enough for my rambling- just for some of you wishful thikers out
    there- If you find something like a boat, a car,a dinghy on the
    bottom or on the beach- somebody probably owns it - 
    If it's mine and you decide you have "salvage rights- I'll be happy
    to haul you into court for larceny- that's if I'm in a good mood
    If I'm in a bad mood- w'll maybe sometime I'll tell you the story
    uf what we islanders did when we got our boats stripped three weekend
    in a row and couldn't get a polioce patrol. But tha's another story-
    all I can tell you is- NOBODY who didn't live on that island would
    go near that mooring area after dark.
    
    
     The bottom line- IT AIN"T YOURS
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

    Last fall, I was going north on Lake Champlain and spotted a paddleboat
    floating unattended.  I took it in tow, stopped at Basin Harbor,
    called the USCG, and gave them the hull numbers.  I asked them whether
    I should do anything else, report it to the police or whatever,
    and they said no.  I have now been in posession of this boat for
    more than a year, have maintained and repaired it.
    
    What's my status?  
    
    Were the owner to show up, would I have a legitimate right to
    compensation for expenses incurred in recovery, storage, and
    maintenance?
    			John

    I'm in complete agreement with the auther( Unsigned) of note nunber
    9. If anybody missconstrued my saterical humor ?
    
    I have an interesting one to tell, A few years back I was out paddleing
    my canoe in the brook off my back yard, I decided to pull it ashore
    in my yard and tie it off- I usually brought it up to my shed. In
    the time it took to go down to the local Ice cream stand and back.
    Poof the canoe dissapeared?
    
    A kid from a few blocks away thought it would be great to take it
    for a ride, Not like he planned to steal it? He must have just happened
    to have his own paddle with him??? Well a couple of local kids saw
    him and jumpped him as he went under the bridge. They brought my
    canoe back and hinted that it would be a great reward if they could
    use it for fishing. Well I guess so. Wonder if they planned it that
    way?
    
    Anyway someone stole it for real a couple of weeks later, I had
    to rule out those kids due to the fact that they could use it whenever
    they wanted, So why steal it? It showeed up on the roof of a guys
    car two years later when he brought it to my boat shop to "Trade
    It IN" Yea,Right.
    
    Another good one was when some kid tried to steal a old guys skiff
    across the brook, He was paddleing downstream with the old guy yelling
    at him. A nieghbor helped by using the opportunity for some target
    practice ,A couple of rounds off the bow scared the kid silly.
    
    I bet he wont do that again.
    
                                          Walt
    

RE: Note 180.11 


 >> It showeed up on the roof of a guys car two years later when he
 >> brought it to my boat shop to "Trade It IN" Yea,Right.



Just curious Walt, what was the final outcome of that one?  Did you
manage to get the canoe back?  That guy must have $h!t a brick when
he found out it was your boat!

Rick W.

    The guy that had my canoe on his roof was only guilty of buying
    it hot from some guy at the Laconia bar in lowell, For those of
    you who have never had the pleasue of going there it's the type
    of place where you walk over bodys on the floor. Fat chance of finding
    the thief.
    Ya he shit a brick, He told me he didn't know what kind of canoe
    it was, So in one quick move I pulled my lockblade and told him
    it was white/green/gray and stolen as I cut off the layer of fresh
    white paint on the outside. 
    
    The canoe was in such bad shape and it was only a Indian Brand to
    begin with I just told him to hit the road and take the canoe with
    him, Never did see him again.
    
    Somthings are more trouble than there worth, My insurance co. had
    allready paid off. And it would have been a real hassle for me to
    tell them I had found the canoe.
    
                                     Walt