Conference 7.286::space

    I'd be interested, but at this point I'm not sure we are _ever_
    going to launch another shuttle.  If it was for sure and we could
    get closer to the launch site than somewhere in Georgia I'd find
    a way though!
    
    Willie

    I just called the news center at KSC (407-867-2468 - the area code
    changed over the weekend from 305), and they said that no date had been
    set, but late August was the current thinking.  They'll probably
    announce in mid-July.
    
    If you want to get onto the list for passes to the launch, write to
    
    NASA Visitors Services Branch
    PA-VIC
    Kennedy Space Center, Florida, 32899
    
    I have not verified the address by writing to it.
    
John

    For those of you who want to go to the launch the best way to see
    it is to write to:
    
                   Mrs. Dotty Davis
                   Mail code LPE
                   NASA Headquarters
                   Washington D.C.  , 20546
    
    Tell her that you want a car pass for the NASA Causeway for the
    next lauch which is STS26.this will allow you and a select number
    of other cars to watch the lauch from the NASA Causeway which runs
    between KSC and Cape Canaveral.You are right accross the water from
    the lauch pad at a distant of aboyt 8 miles.I've been to two launches
    before and the view is great.I've just sent for mine.Looking forward
    to seeing some of you DEC space buffs down there too !!!!!

    What are the passes that the visitor's center hands out?
    
John

    
    
    	If you can go...go.  I lived in North Florida 'til about
    	six months ago.  I got to see about 3 launches from the Cape.
    
    	Don't miss it.  8 miles is close !  You can watch the
    	sound waves come across the water toward you.  There's
    	a continuous roar, but also a staccato BOOM-BOOM-BOOM
    	sound, which I understand to be shock waves from the
    	supersonic exhaust of the main engines.   The TV mikes
    	are overdriven by this overpressure, and it sounds like
    	pop-pop-pop when you watch a launch on the tube.
    
    	You can see the thing way down range, if the weather's
    	good.
    
    	Take the bus tours of the cape after the launch, too.
    	They'll drive you within spittin' distance of the pad.  You'll
    	get to see techs unloading the myriad cameras they position
    	around the area.
    
    	Steve H
    	(There for Sally Ride's first...watching from 150 miles north when the
    	Challenger blew)

    CNN had a short report on the Discovery this afternoon.  They said that
    the current launch date was around the first week in September, if
    absolutely everything goes perfect.  It doesn't sound like it will fly
    in August.  Pity.

    Discovery was wheeled out of the hanger yesterday and moved into
    the VAB for mating to the stack.  For a flying brickyard, it sure
    looked beautiful...
    
    						Mike

    Heard on the news tonight that the launch date is now Sept. 4...
    
    -Glenn-

    Before the Challenger explosion, some of the "space groups" like
    Nat'l Space Society were offering package deals on trips to view
    the shuttle launches.  The best part of the deal was a pass for
    the VIP viewing stands, which at that time were about 3.5 miles
    from the launch pad.  I haven't heard if these trips will be
    offered once launches resume.  Since the date for the next launch
    is so vague, I'd suspect if the trips resume, they'll do so after
    the next launch.
    
    Oh, another thing; there was some controversy about the location
    of the VIP stands.  Seems the Air Force who is responsible for
    range safety said 3.5 miles was too close in the event of an
    explosion on or near the launch pad.  I never heard a resolution
    to this issue.
    
    One thing's for certain, though; when (if?) the tours resume
    I'm gonna sign up!
    

    RE: Car passes for STS 26
    
    OK, I sent my letter in about a week ago.  What happens next?  Do I get
    billed?  Do I get a letter back?  Do I get a pass in the mail?
    
John

    Passes are free.  IF the supply of passes has not been exhausted,
    you will receive the pass in the mail prior to launch, otherwise
    you will be put on a list for the next launch (and told you were).
    The pass is (was?) an approx 5" x 8" sign you display in the window
    of your vehicle when you go to see the launch.
    
    I forget the exact timing of when you receive the pass in the mail.
    After all, it HAS been 3 years since I received my last one.  OH,
    you get to keep the pass afterward.  Makes a nice souveneir!
    
    Plan on arriving LONG before the scheduled launch time; even though
    access to the Causeway is limited (by the passes), you'll want to
    find a good spot on the Causeway from which to view the launch.
    
    Anyone remember if they had porta-johns there?
    

I've driven down 3 times now to see the liftoff - straight thru takes about
24-26 hours (from Boston) depending on how often the kids demand to stop
at McDonalds 8-).

The flights I saw were around 10am. We drove I-95 all the way, leaving about
6-7pm (36 hrs early), hit New York around midnight so there wouldn't
be much traffic, and hit DC at the am rushour, not too bad since we swung
around the beltway, then smooth sailing the rest of the way. We'd arrive
just after dusk, and wait at the gate. There'd already be quite a line of cars
waiting for the gate to open at 3am. At 3am (or whatever the time was) we'd
get let in to the area on the Banana River. We were parked completely solid
car to car so there's no way to get out until it's over or scrubbed. Lots of
people have telescopes there so you can have a peek. You're about 7 miles away
(35 sec from sight to sound or so). The whole thing is quite the experience,
I highly recommend it. Reminds me of the "Woodstock of the 80's".

Bring lots of bug spray and alligator repellant.
Sleep is not possible since they have these speakers that make announcements
all the time all night long. They have plenty of Johnny-on-the-spots there.
I doubt they allow cooking fires. They made constant announcements about not
swimming there because of the alligators (I saw some!).

Also, the pass is per-car, not per-person, so if you have a van, you can
pack a lot of people in there.

BTW, I wrote for a pass and didn't use it so I wrote for the next liftoff
too, and they wouldn't send me one because they had a record of having already
sent me one previously. If you want to go to 2 in a row, you might have
somebody else write for the second pass.

    If you want to attend two launches in a row, have your Senator
    or Congressman (U.S., not state!) request a pass for you.  The
    name of the constituent apparently never gets included in these
    requests so you won't get nailed on the "two in a row" clause.
    

    Thanks for the extra information.  It's always nice to know what to
    expect.
    
John

    Just read in Space World the National Space Society is resuming
    its tours to view shuttle launches.  For $495 double occupance,
    $595 single, you get airfare, transportation to hotel, launch,
    spend a day at KSC, then back to hotel, then back to airport
    (you're there 2 days before launch and 2 days after).  Included
    is a VIP pass which gets you about 3.5 miles from the launch site
    (versus the approx. 7 miles with a causeway pass).  This is tour
    "A".  There MAY be a "B" tour, which would be less expensive,
    and not as close to the launch site.
    
    If I was a little more certain about the date of the launch of
    Discovery I'd jump at this one.  With all the probably delays,
    etc., I think I'll wait for the next launch.  NSS does, however,
    attempt to be flexible in their scheduling, so even if the date
    changes somewhat the tour should still be viable.
    

    (Forgot 'phone number in 432.15)
    
    The tour hotline is (202) 543-1900.
    

Yow!  I didn't know that passes were required for the causeway...

I've conveniently scheduled my Disneyland trip during the week of 12-Oct, so
I might get a chance to see the Galileo launch.

With less than a month to go, what would people recommend?

Where did you get your passes?  The KSC Visitors Services or via Dotty at
NASA HQ (I'd like to be sure *she's* still there!).

Assuming I can't get a causeway pass - what are my fallback options?

Any help appreciated...

Many thanks,

- dave

>Where did you get your passes?  The KSC Visitors Services or via Dotty at
>NASA HQ (I'd like to be sure *she's* still there!).
    
    I got mine through Dotty.  Somebody else responded, but it worked.
    
>Assuming I can't get a causeway pass - what are my fallback options?
    
    Get there *early* and get to the bridge that crosses the Banana River
    south of the military base (there's another one on the base - the
    causeway).  It has a clear over-water view of the launch, but it's
    about 12 or so miles away.  Does RT16 ring any bells for anyone?  There
    are lots of people who view from south of the base.  I'm not familiar
    with westerly or northerly views.  They may be better, but I doubt it.
    
    If you don't have an over-water view of the launch, you probably won't
    see the actual launch from any distance.  Of course, once it's up it's
    visible for many miles.
    
    If it's a morning launch, don't worry too much about ground fog and
    the like.  It burns off pretty quickly.
    
John

My pass arrived yesterday.   Nice packet: pass, map, STS-34 flight summary,
traveler's notes, etc.


Like a kid in a candy store,


- dave

    Just a few notes on watching a lift-off (from someone who got
    burned a bit) - this applies mainly if you are combining a vacation
    and a launch viewing (as I tried to do):
    
    1. The "Bee-Line" (Rt. 482?) from Orlando to KSC is a toll road.  This
       isn't all too bad on the way in - but on the way back it can take
       hours (>4) to get back to Orlando.  I know this first hand.
    
    2. When they scrub a launch, the crowds the next day may fall away -
       hence the traffic situation can flux greatly (like a normal ride on
       the Bee-line).
    
    3. We weren't sure what to expect when we got to the KSC.  The causeway
       had speakers on the utility poles chatting out the "voice of NASA".
       You can also get a slightly nicer version over the radio.  A local
       station broadcasts NASA Select audio on both AM and FM.  (I hope
       they will continue this practice).  Also on the causeway are the
       banks of porta-potties (as previously reported), plus a food stand
       selling soda and sandwiches, NASA trinkets, etc.
    
       There is NO SHADE (other than your car) - sunscreen and/or beach
       umbrellas are manditory.
    
    It was quite an experience (even though it just sat their).  I hope
    someday to make it down and actually watch it take-off - which I hear
    is much nicer than watching it sit there.
    
    
    - dave
    
    p.s. Thanks to the wonderful folks at the Christic Institute & Co. our
    tour of Complex 39 did not have a photo stop in the pad area (only at
    the VAB).   ^%$#&^%%$&#*#

    Oh yes, one more thing.  Ignore any weather reports you hear - they
    are useless.
    
    - dave

re .20

no photo stop in the "pad area"?  do you mean at the old tracking stand near
the ocean?  that was the closest they ever stopped when i was there.  it was
quite a ways from the pas but i suppose someone crazy enough to chance the
gators could lose themselves in the brush until the bus moved on.

mike

Well, since it didn't happen I'm forced to infer a few things.

During the tour we actually went out to Pad 39-A (STS-34 launched from
39-B).  There is a "marshalling area" just outside the pad perimeter where
the bus stopped for about 60 seconds.  I was under the impression from both
the tour guide (and my father, who visited KSC during the previous launch)
that the pad area was a photo stop and we would disembark.

The marshalling area is about 100-200 yards from 39-A (although outside a
rather nasty looking fence).  We travelled there on an access road parallel
to the path taken by the mobile launch platform tractors take.

Now I didn't really expect to get close to 39-B, but 200 yds from a
non-operational pad seemed like a safe enough thing to do.  We were probably
about a 1/2 mile from Pad B (well, it seemed that way) - the Rotational
Service Structure was covering it, so it wasn't a terribly good picture
through the acrylic bus windows.


- dave   

I'm planning to visit my parents for Xmas and have heard the there will/should 
be a flight while we're there (over Xmas). It's been real enlightening to hear
an unsuccessful trip report to set expectation levels. Should we start mission 
topics for this and the prior DOD mission?

I'm interested in mission features, dates, rollout... for the December mission

8 weeks 'til Xmas. Better call for those passes soon...

    Re: KSC Bus Tour
    	I've taken the KSC bus tour three times in the past eight years. The
    first time I took the tour in 1981, we were allowed to get off the bus
    near pad 39A (about 1,000 yards) and take some pictures (which of course 
    I did). In 1984 and 1987 we were not allowed to get off the bus as we
    passed the launch pad (during my visit in March, 1984 there was even
    a shuttle on the pad which would have made a REAL nice picture). We
    were however allowed off the bus to look at the decommissioned Saturn V
    near the VAB (which was really sad; it looked like a beached whale).
    	Based on my experience (and that of a previous noter) I do not
    think that the tour buses stop at the pads and allow people to get off
    any more (at least since 1984-ish). I have no idea why. 
    
    				Drew
    

    On my first, last, and only visit to KSC (on 4 Oct. 1987, yet), we
    stopped at the camera site near 39A, about 1000 yds. from the pad, with
    the beach to our backs.  We had about 10 minutes to scramble around and
    do our best to boost Kodak's 3rd quarter :-)  Perhaps, due to the
    standdown in flight operations during that period, we were allowed more
    leeway that a current visitor would have.

    I saw the Atlantis launch in December (2nd, 1988) and toured the
    KSC the next day (Saturday). The bus tour stopped for ~15 minutes
    again at the old camera tracking site, 1,000 yds fom 39-A.
    Obviously, the pad was empty but there was what looked like a Delta
    standingon one of the Air Force launch pads further down the coast
    (2 miles off?). I was using a 50mm telephoto lens on a 110 Pentax and
    got some pretty good shots.
    BTW, A vist down to Port Canaveral after a launch was pretty
    interesting. I watched the Coast Guard bringing in one of the SRB's
    from Atlantis as well as a Nuclear submarine loading Polaris (?) missiles.
    (Might have been a Trident, I can't tell them apart, except for
    comparitive size. Could have been a training dummy for all I know).
    All in all, one of the best weekends I ever spent anywhere.
                   Mike.

    I am planning on being in Orlando in May.  If the schedule for STS-35
    is pushed back a few days, I will be able to see it off.  I just found
    this conference and didn't know about passes - does Dotty have a phone
    number where she can be reached?  I am going to send a letter off
    tomorrow to her!!
    
    I have been to Patrick AFB & Kennedy Space Center a few years ago.  Can
    you see the lift-off from Patrick??
    
    Also, when I was at the Space Center I didn't know you had to wait
    hours for a tour so I wasn't able to go on one.  I do remember that you
    had a choice between two tours.  Which one is better??
    
    If any of these questions are answered somewhere else - please let me
    know, I have been reading what I think is pertinent but I may have
    missed something.
    
    Thanks, 
    Karen
    

re Note 432.28 by 33972::KWOODS:

>     Also, when I was at the Space Center I didn't know you had to wait
>     hours for a tour so I wasn't able to go on one.  I do remember that you
>     had a choice between two tours.  Which one is better??
  
        On April 12, I took the bus tour from the Spaceport USA
        center at Kennedy Space Center.  At that time they were only
        running one tour, the "red" one, which goes by the STS
        facilities as well as the Apollo memorabilia.

        For a $4.00 ticket (children are less), this two-hour tour
        has got to be one of the outstanding tourist values in
        Florida.  (There is no admission charged for the Spaceport
        USA exhibits themselves.)

        As far as delay goes, we were there during a spring vacation
        week, arrived at the ticket lines at 11:30, bought a ticket
        after a 10-minute wait, and were on the bus at 1:10.

        My only complaint was the lack of Space Shuttle hardware in
        the exhibits.  After 35 flights, there must be some discarded
        or test article equipment they could display, such as an
        engine or SRB case.

        Bob

  I also took the Spaceport tour of the Cape area.  You get up close to the
VAB, drive across the crawlerway, then along it to a point right next to the
beach.  This point is about midway between the 39A and B pads.  Since I went
down to see the Hubble mission launch and the APU went bonkers I also got to
see the shuttle from a distance of about a mile.  Unfortunately, the rotating
service arm was covering the shuttle itself so that the space telescope could
be serviced in-bay.

  While we were next to the VAB, our tourguide pointed out that in the two
shuttle processing buildings right next to the VAB there were each of the
two other shuttles.  I highly recommend the tour, as you get to see the guts
of the space facility.  It's a piece of history which all too many people will
miss seeing.  I look forward to having grandchildren so that I can tell them
of the days when reusable spacecraft were first being used and hypergolics
were the best we had.

John

    re: 432.28
    
    	Well folks, I just got my Causeway Pass for STS-35!!!! 
    
    I'm going to be hoping for a late launch. I'm flying into Clearwater on
    the 23rd of May.
    
    	In case you are wondering, the Dottie Davis address is still valid!
    I sent in my request on April 27th, and got the pass yesterday. I
    figured that it was too late to get one... but not so!
    
    Ben