Conference 7.286::dcu

    The algorithm they use is baffling.  It would seem that using the
    "next banking day" would always be appropriate, wouldn't it?  Who
    benefits from this algorithm?  (I assume DCU ;-))
    
    On the second point:  I for one, have few tears to shed for check
    kiters that can't kite anymore.
    
    M

	Re .0 and

>On top of that, the new system will clear checks throughout the day, rather than
>a batch run in the evenings after the bank is closed.  This means that if you
>people are writing DCU checks(either checking or CRT or whatever), and somebody
>deposits you check within DEC, that check will be INSTANTLY cleared!  In
>general, as the checks arrive into the bank, they are being cleared immediately.

        My wife, who has worked at the DCU for over two years,
        says that this has happened for as long as she's been there.
        It's not new.
        
Jim Stratton
        

There may be a semantic point here: 

As long as I have known, when I walked into DCU with a check drawn on
another DCU account to deposit, a hold is placed against the
check-writer's account immediately. 

posting checks throughout the day as they come in from the
clearinghouses is a bit new to me though.  For purposes of determining
if an account is overdrawn, and the daily balance for crediting
interest (or charging interest), I though the only balance that
mattered was the one at the end of the day. 

If at 10AM, a check overdraws my account (or taps my CRT if I have 
one), and I make a covering deposit at 3pm, are you saying I'm charged 
5 hourrs of interest????

I read my statements line-by-line.  This is the first month I have ever noticed
it.  I've been with DCU for 3 years.

The point is not about check kiting.  That is not smart practice.  What DCU is
doing, if my information is accurate, is WRONG.  If I have automatic deposits
to cover automatic check withdrawls, and they post the automatic withdrawls
prior to the deposit, I could easily bounce.  That's wrong on their part, not
mine.  They are surely not going to post automatic deposits on the nearest
banking day.

If they plan on doing this, then they should :

	a) State in big, bold, letters to every member, in absolute baby
	   language what they are doing, and
	b) Provide all members with a default coverage mechanism in case
	   of over withdrawl due to their questionable banking procedure.

rep

    I misread the last paragraph in the base note and thought it was
    about a different topic - "can't kite anymore" - sorry.
    
    M

re:.3
        
>If at 10AM, a check overdraws my account (or taps my CRT if I have 
>one), and I make a covering deposit at 3pm, are you saying I'm charged 
>5 hourrs of interest????

    
    I found this the hard way. I received a notice from DCU that one
    of my checks was returned due to insufficient funds. The date of
    the returned checks was the 13th of August, which was the same day
    I made a deposit to my account for a lot more than what is needed
    to cover the check. 
    
    I called DCU this morning, and I was told that my deposit came just
    after the check came to the bank, and that they do clear checks
    that comes in immediately. He said that they used to clear all at
    the end of the working day, but they don't any longer. Of course
    if there was a DCU facility in Tewksbury, then I would have been
    there at 8:00 AM rather than 12:00 and beat the check to the door...
    But since we don't have a DCU facility I had to travel somewhere
    else to deposit it. 
    
    Of course they don't understand that, and they suggest that I make
    my paycheck go automatically to DCU. I do have my automatic deposit
    go to a different bank, now it looks like I will do most of my banking
    somewhere else.
    
    Now I am paying penalty for not have a credit union in my facility
    and my car doesn't go any faster to get to a branch of the credit
    union (of course unless I want to take few hours off work to do
    my banking)...and of course for writing a check the night before
    when the Credit union is closed to make deposits...
    
    In short I am upset....
    
    
    

    RE: .6
    
    Two suggestions to your problem (Note: I work in Westford [WJO]
    and we don't have a DCU branch either):
    
    1.  Deposit your check via an ATM that is part of the DCU network.
    
    2.  Have some cash in a savings account with the DCU, then do a
        transfer transaction via the telephone (I think it is called
        EasyTouch).
    
    The point is that you are not the only one that works in a DEC facility
    which is not serviced by a DCU, so don't blame the DCU for YOUR
    failure to cover your check that bounced!
    
    Don M.
    

Obviously, direct deposit doesn't help cover a situation where you are 
covering a draft with a check you've received in the mail, or a 
transfer from another account.

It should not be difficult for DCU to change their software so that 
bounced check fees, CRT interest, and the like is assessed only on 
overdrafts that exist at 4pm, regardless of when deposits and 
withdrawals occured that day.  I believe this is what all other banks 
and Credit Unions do.  If so, could someone explain how DCU is serving
any of its members interests by doing it differently? 

I'd believe that the DCU could be so unfriendly as to bounce checks
when deposits are made that same day, or to make withdrawals before
deposits.  The problem with this is that it may be a violation of banking
laws/rules, particularly those covering account reconciliation.  To those
people who've been stung, I'd suggest contacting your state banking
commisions.  Some helpful soul will be more than happy to answer your
questions.

And, in some states (Illinois comes to mind), if you choose to make
a complaint, that could be grounds for immediate shutdown of the bank
until the issue is resolved.  For that matter, if the transaction happened
across state lines, you may want to ask the office of the US Comptroller
of the Currency.
                   
Ah, now we come to the issue of customer friendlyness.  Some time ago,
a withdrawal and a deposit crossed in the system.  The deposit had a
hold and so the check I'd written was flagged as `uncollected funds'.
How did I find out about this?  I got a notice in the mail that I had
a check processed with uncollected funds...the `penalty' box listed
a charge of $0 and the check was not returned.  What happened?  The
bank saw I had funds on hold and a check that would have bounced had
it not been for the held check and the bank covered my check, letting
me know that they did it.  Now that's customer service!

BobW

    RE: -1  The DCU or more precisely the Digital Employees FEDERAL
    Credit Union is under federal not state banking jusidiction.  The
    Credit union folks in Washington DC were most help in resolving
    a "problem" with DCU several months ago.
    
    -Wayne

    Back in Michigan we had a bank that always posted withdrawls before
    deposits and they were all procesed at the end of the day no matter
    when they came it.  The way we found out about it was to make a deposit
    in the morning and write a check in the afternoon and watch it bounce
    (checks clear fast in a small town).   
    
    -Jer
    

    This is an official response by John Tilley of the DCU. The portion of
    that response, dated 5-OCT-1987, that applies to this note topic is
    included below. See note 2.22 for more information. 
    
    Whether you agree or disagree with the response from the DCU,
    
            *PLEASE* DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER (me)
    
    (my flame retardent terminal is out being cleaned)! 
    
    Carl Leeber
******************************************************************************

IN-HOUSE CHECK PROCESSING:  Both deposits and withdrawals are processed as 
they are received throughout the business day. There is very little "float" 
left in an automated check clearing system. Current account balances are 
available on the Easy Touch audio response system by calling 1/800/322-1232 
from a touch-tone phone.

******************************************************************************

    Re:  [All]

    Are all these 'charges' (ATM fees, clearing policies, no coin wrappers,
    no bank-by-mail envelopes, etc., etc.) worth the 'free' checking and
    with all these fees, is it 'really' FREE checking?  I, like many others,
    do my banking with a 'full-service' bank.  It may cost me to leave $500
    in my checking account all the time, but then I don't pay all those
    'other' fees and my bank always bends over backwards to help me -- their
    CUSTOMER.  After reading many of the replies in here, I often wonder if
    the DCU works for you or you work for the DCU.

    -- Rob