Conference 7.286::dcu

	RE .0

	I believe the DCU was updating some software on their systems on
Saturday July 23, but don't know why the VISA database was down on Sunday, July
24. It did come back up. My wife and I went back to the store later in the
afternoon, they held our stuff aside for us, and the transaction processed
correctly at 4:00pm.

	\Bob

	

Aw, geez.  So many people have reported problems like this with DCU Visa.  I have
had them as well.  I have *never* had these kinds of problems with any other
credit card from any other bank [sic].  Why bother?  I cut up my DCU Visa last
Fall, and from the looks of things, will never renew it.  My 2 cents.

	Steve

    I had a problem with credit being refused on a non-DCU card, 
    even though I was not over limit.  DCU isn't the only place
    that has this problem.  Of course, I cut up THAT card...
    
    	Larry

I drove a car from Atlanta to Iselin, NJ this weekend and used my DCU Visa 
to:

Buy gas in Lexington, SC Saturday afternoon
Get a motel room in Fayetteville, NG Saturday evening
Buy dinner Saturday evening in Fayetteville
Buy gas Sunday morning in Fayetteville
Buy gas Sunday afternoon in Port Royal, MD 
Buy a plane ticket in Newark on Sunday evening.

NO Problems.

I didn't even consider using my Fleet Visa card.  It's always being 
questioned and I have a credit availability in the $9,000 range on that 
card.  My Shawmut Mastercharge card hasn't been used since I got refused 
three straight times in a row at Christmas time with a ZERO balance owed.

The ONLY card I've never had a single problem with has been my DCU Visa.

    
    
    and I have never had a problem with any card including dcu.
    

I fail to see the logic of using the DCU credit card.

There are cards that 
	- give 2% cash back at the end of the year (GE rewards)
	- give 5% rebate on GM car purchase,
	- give 5% rebate on Ford car purchase,
	- frequent flyer miles (AA, United, etc.)
	- have lower interest rates.

All of the above cards are essentially free.  The FORD card is free
the first year. In the second year, they charge $25 dollars but
add $50 to your rebate credit.  You can get the $50 fee for the frequent
flyer card waived.

Gim

<<< Note 854.6 by SLOAN::HOM >>>
-< why DCU Credit Card? >-

Because I can save 29 cents by making my payments by phone out of my direct 
deposit checking account?

FWIW, my wife just cut up her GM credit card.   ....and she just got it a 
while back.  She also trashed her Citibank card.

We also cut up our Discover cards.

Why?  CONSTANT Billing errors, late billing, failure to post payments even 
though we had the canceled checks, failure to credit us with the 
erroneously applied interest (bills were pair inside of 30 days so as to 
avoid interest, yet they whacked us anyways)

We've never had those problems w/ DCU.

re: .6

>  You can get the $50 fee for the frequent flyer card waived.

How?  And whose card?

United called us the other day wondering why we weren't accepting their offer.
We told 'em we didn't like the $60 annual fee.  They did not offer to waive
it.

What are "frequent flyer" cards? (I assume they are of use only to people
who get on a commercial airline more than once every 15 years or so.)

-Jack

Re: .8, You do have to play hardball with the bank:
    
            Cardholder:  "Hello, I'd like to get my credit card fee
                          waived"
            Operator 1: "I'm sorry, but we don't waive fees. It's policy."
            Cardholder:  "May I please speak to a supervisor."
            Supervisor: "Hello may I help you?"
            Cardholder:  "Yes, I'd like to get my fee waived."
            Supervisor:  (Checking my account to see if I'm a good customer): 
                            "Just a moment."
            Supervisor: "I'm sorry but we don't waive the fee and have
			 never waived fees in the past."
            Cardholder: "In that case, I'd like to cancel the card.
                         I can get a card with FF Miles without yearly 
                         fee from your competitors."
            Supervisor: "Well, would you keep your account with us if 
                         if we give you a gift certificate for $50?"
                        (strangely, this is the same as the annual fee.)
            Cardholder:  "Well, yeah, I suppose so."
            Supervisor: "Good. I'll send  you gift certificate out."
    
    And then you call again the following year. Of course, they don't
    need to the play this time.

    Educated speculation - the issuance of the gift certicate may be
    technicality to go around some legal issues.

    I have posted on my bulletin board my annual gift certificate.

    Gim

So, can you cancel your account without penalty the day after 
you spend the $50 gift certificate?   :-)

I had the unfortunate experience of having my Visa card declined this past
weekend.  It wasn't that I was over my limit - the explanation I got from
DCU was that Equifax, noticing that I had made several large charges
recently (which I had), decided to put a hold on my account until the
charges were posted.  (There's a two-step process - the authorization
"reserves" an amount, then the actual charge is submitted and posted a day
or two later.  The reserve expires after four days.)   I was not notified of
this or given an opportunity to inquire of Equifax about it.

I complained to the DCU infodesk that this was an all-too-common symptom of
their Visa processing, to which the rep agreed and said that DCU had been
considerings switching from Equifax because of similar problems.  It is
because of troubles like this that I obtained a second card from a different
bank, because I can't afford to have my good credit declined arbitrarily.
Those who want to carry only one card might want to consider switching from
DCU
to another card vendor, after checking to see who does their processing.

				Steve

FWIW, I have a Citibank Master Card.  Most every Christmas or October (when my
wife goes on a shopping trip with her sister) I get a call from them saying that
my card has an "unusual access pattern" and would I please confirm that it is
ok.  I tell them I won't talk to someone who calls me, but I'll call them back.
When I do so, it is almost invariable that they give me several purchases that
my wife or I made, I confirm them, and everything is cool.  I don't believe they
ever put a hold on the card.

Burns

    > Most every Christmas or October (when my wife goes on a shopping trip
    > with her sister) I get a call from them saying that my card has an
    > "unusual access pattern" and would I please confirm that it is ok.  I
    > tell them I won't talk to someone who calls me, but I'll call them
    > back. When I do so, it is almost invariable that they give me several
    > purchases that my wife or I made, 
    
    Shame on you Burns!!!!!
    
    Can't you wait until Christmas to find out what your wife got you????
    
    ;-)
    
	db

Believe me, the kind of places she goes with her sister, she does not get
anything for me :-)

Burns

Tom Ryan of DCU called me yesterday with a full explanation of what happened.
The story will be of interest to all DCU Visa card holders (and probably
relevant somewhat to holders of other credit cards.)

As I mentioned earlier, charging something is typically a two-step process,
with the authorization and the actual charge submittal as separate actions.  A 
week ago I had repairs done on my car to the tune of almost $900 (ouch!) and 
put it on my DCU Visa.  I was about $1000 away from my limit after this charge.
Now here's what happened next.  A day or so later Equifax received the actual
charge submittal for my car work.   The "authorization hold" for the charge
doesn't get cancelled until the charge is actually "posted" to my account
by DCU, which can take up to 48 hours (especially over a holiday weekend,
which this was.)  During this time, I had "double holds" against my account,
leaving my available credit at something like $29.  Then the $80 charge (which
had not had an authorization hold since the merchant didn't do a "swipe") hit
and was declined.  A day later, the processing caught up and the hold was
released, but it was too late - a valid charge had been declined.  (When I
reached the merchant the next day, he told me he had resubmitted the charge
and he had "forced it through" (not sure what that means.)

Tom said that he is going to work with Equifax to see if problems like this
can be avoided or minimized in the future.  You're more likely to see it if
you make large charges and are creeping up on your credit limit.  I think
that Equifax is too quick to decline charges, especially small ones like
the one I had declined.

Curiously, as of this morning, none of the charges from a week ago had shown
up on PC Branch's history, but that's another story...

					Steve

I think at least two cards from different institutions is a really good idea,
especially for those of us who pay their accounts in full each month.

I have a VISA card and a MasterCard with statement dates exactly 15 days
apart.  I use each card during the first two weeks of its billing cycle,
thereby maximizing the float.

This would also provide a backup for situations where something's wrong
with the card processing.

/john

The saga continues - this time it was my wife's card which got declined.
There was absolutely no reason why this should have happened - she had not used
her card for several days, had used less than 10% of her limit, and the charge
was for a whopping $83.

She called DCU when she got home, and got disconnected  When she was next able
to get through, she got a runaround - was told that "someone at the Visa
processing center would call her".

My wife is absolutely livid about this - she has never had a charge card
declined in 20 years, and she was lucky that the merchant would accept a
personal check for her purchase.  She now tells me she is going to investigate
switching to another institution's Visa card (perhaps after first making sure
they don't use Equifax for their processing.)

In my view, it's long past time that DCU dropped Equifax and looked for
a reliable Visa vendor that doesn't routinely cause embarassment for DCU's
customers.

					Steve

    I had the same problem. However, I had the store enter the card number
    manually and it worked. It appeared that the problem was with my card's
    magnetic strip.
    
    Ken

The problem my wife had was not with the card not being read - it was that
the processing center declined the charge.

				Steve

    I don't know if this is related, but the SHR-1 ATM wouldn't let me
    in after hours last week (door wouldn't open when I fed in my
    DCU card). Then I got a new card in the mail a couple of days back, 
    so I wonder if that old card was disabled before I got the new one..
    
    - Ganesh. 

re: .21

I thought that practically any such card would let you in the door.  
Getting money could be a different matter.

- S.

Right - the door systems don't care what you feed them, as long as it has
some sort of magstripe that is readable.

My wife has still not been contacted with an explanation of the problem.

				Steve

Here's the latest from my wife (she gave her permission for me to post this):

I got sick of waiting for the "promised" call-back and called DCU again just
now.  At least this time I was told the reason my card was "declined" - it has
been deactivated!  A new card has been ordered for me and they will
send it FedEx, but until it arrives I am cardless.  Livid barely begins to
describe my feelings at the moment.  I have had _no_ communication from
Equifax since the original erroneous letter in May regarding
my "card renewal and deactivation of the old card".  And apparently, DCU has 
felt no obligation to straighten things out, other than to reassure anyone who 
called in about it that "the letter is an error; don't worry about a thing."

If this is what DCU calls service, I can certainly do better elsewhere.  I was
unaware that DEC's downsizing was having so much of an effect on DCU!!!

    Sorry about the off-topic posting..
    
    re .22
    
    You're right, it was probably a flaky card reader. I just remembered,
    I tried another Mastercard in there that day and that wouldn't work 
    either.
    
    - Ganesh. 

    re: .24
    don't hold your breath waiting for the Fedex...  
    
    My 'old' card has an expiration date of 8/96.
    
    I used it for dinner on Saturday, July 6.
    When I tried to use it in a store on Monday, Jul 8, it was declined.
    Both with the swiping and manual entry.  But the clerk said 'we've
    been having problems like this ever since they restarted the computer
    yesterday' so I paid cash and we assumed it was the store's problem.
    This was the first day of my vacation....
    
    On Wed, Jul 10, I again tried to use it, a bigger ticket purchase,
    and it was again declined.  I called DCU and said I wanted to know
    why it had been declined.  Seems that my 'new' card (to replace the
    one that would expire in August) had been sent on July 3rd.  And then
    they deactivate the old card.  But it usually takes 7-10 days for the
    new cards to arrive, and with the July 4 holiday it would take longer.
    
    When I asked as to why then would they deactivate an old card, which
    isn't to expire until next month, before they even expect me to receive
    the new card, she says, well, believe it or not, its not even DCU, its
    Equifax.
    
    I really don't care who it is!  My card is through DCU, and I expect
    them to be responsible for managing it correctly.  I have had a perfect
    credit history with them, hold most of my household finances with them,
    and will not tolerate having my credit yanked with no notice.
    Aside from the embarassment, I was on vacation that week and tend
    to spend/charge more during a vacation.  
    
    So I said, reactivate it.  We can't.  I said, ok, Fedex me a new one.
    She said ok, it will take two days.  I should receive it on Friday.
    
    So end of the afternoon on FRiday, I call again. It hasn't shown up.
    This person checked and said that the fedex had been processed, but
    the earliest that I should receive the card is Saturday, probably
    Monday. (I thought Fedex was *overnight*.  Huh?)\
    
    The Fedex showed up Monday.  The label on it says it was sent on 
    FRiday.  
    
    All I received was the card, no letter, no apology, no acknowledgement
    of the inconvenience...
    
    I asked to whom I should be addressing a letter of complaint, and
    was told Ernie Chevrette, Manager of the VISA Dept.
    
    I still have not received the original card mailed out on July 3 -
    its been two weeks now.  Or a letter telling me I should have received
    it.
    
    Livid does not begin to describe my reaction last week.  What gets me
    is that this is not an industry where I need to stay with this vendor -
    I receive 3-5 charge card solicitations per week in the mail.  I will
    be looking at these closely and choosing a new vendor.  Or two.
    
    - Marie
    

Re: .26

Forward your note to Carlo Cestra if you like. If the
DCU indeed promised you a card on Friday and you didn't get
it by Friday, let Carlo know about it.

His email cestra@dcu.com

Gim

    re: .26
    
    > I receive 3-5 charge card solicitations per week in the mail.  I will
    > be looking at these closely and choosing a new vendor.  Or two.
    
    Having two or three cards is definitely a good idea.  I've had this
    kind of thing happen more than once, and with different cards.  It's
    always nice to have a backup.  Of course, when it happened with DCU
    Visa, the reason and the response I got was so bogus that I dropped the
    card immediately.  A big bank like Chase seems to be far better able to
    deal with problems like this than DCU, and, you can get a cash-back
    card!
    
    	Steve

My wife was promised a call from Ernie Chevrette two days ago - she has heard
nothing from DCU and still has no card.  She said that when she called on
Monday, the DCU rep asked "do you want to leave a message on his voicemail?"
This is NOT taking responsibility for solving customer problems!

					Steve

    
    This past weekend my wife and I were staying at an inn in New
    Hampshire.  I attempted to use my DCU Visa to charge our evening
    meal in the inn's dining room.  A few minutes later our waitress
    returned and said my card had been declined.  I am nowhere near
    my limit and pay my bill in full each month.  My wife has a card
    with the same account number on it.  The waitress tried her card
    and had no problem.  The next day I used my card to pay our bill
    at checkout time...no problem.  The clerk simply swiped my card
    through a reader.  I assume this is what was done the evening
    before when it was declined.  I am led to believe that there
    is nothing wrong with my card, but rather with the system.  There
    have been instances when my DCU Checkcard has been rejected at an
    ATM (financial institution does not respond, or something like that)
    only to be accepted moments later at the same or another ATM.
    Nonetheless, having my card declined for no valid reason was very 
    embarrassing, and I would hope that if there is a way to correct
    this obvious flaw in the system, that it would be done as soon as
    possible.
    
    Lou
    

Call the DCU information desk and complain.  Writing here won't accomplish
much.

				Steve

Calling DCU may not accomplish much either.  From experience, DCU cannot always
tell why VISA may have declined a card; what they can do is look at your account
and see if there might have been a reason (up against credit limit or whathave
you).

I was on a trip and had my gold card declined (apparently overlimit) - however,
DCU confirmed that the gold card should have been fine.  All that could be
figured was that for some reason the database feed hadn't been working for my
card (and as far as they know, only my card), and hence VISA was working with
stale data (many days old stale data in fact).  Luckily (and helpfully I might
add, since this was at 8PM), the info desk paged the appropriate person who very
kindly forced an update to VISA.

ymmv,
--Scott

  Off-hand I can think of two reasons why a "good" credit card might get
rejected:

1. The confirmation process is very complex. It requires electronic communi-
cation to one or more places. If the data link to one of these places is down,
it might show up as a "bad card" even though the problem is not with the card.
(I am speculating here, but I know that error messages on every kind of system
imaginable often don't state the actual problem.) And due to traffic loads 
changing rapidly, a card may fail once and then pass a few minutes later.
  The "stale data" problem is a variant of this, that is, the station used
stale data because it couldn't access the fresh data.

2. I read in Bottom Line a while ago that if you put a hotel reservation on
your credit card, the upcoming charge goes against your credit limit even
though the amount has not yet been debited. This can cause you to get a
rejection for "credit limit exceeded" on your next purchase, even though you
think you are way below the limit.