Conference 7.286::dcu

    Convenience -- a DCU branch is just down the hall.
    
    Contrariness -- I'm annoyed by the new fee structure and want to stay
    so I can see it changed. 'Course if it doesn't, and I can get a better
    deal elsewhere -- or even one just as good -- I'm outtahere.
    
    I don't do business with folks who don't treat me as I wish to be
    treated.  DCU isn't treating me right just now, but since I'm not
    just a customer, I hope to influence DCU's behavoir by voting rather
    than just by walking.  First I'll vote -- if that doesn't work, I'll
    take my money and leave.
    
    

    Number one reason is convenience. It's on my way in and out of the
    building. This means a lot to me. I have more then enough errands
    that I have to make a serious interruption to my day for. Plus
    the easy touch system for balances and transfers. I love it.

    A feeling of ownership. An intangible to be sure. And not worth much
    to many but it is worth something to me. 

    Local branch service. Deal with a bank with poor service, as I have
    with several, and you'll really appreciate the people the DCU seems
    to hire to work the windows.

    That's for starters. I'm getting what I need and service and
    convenience that I really want.

    			Alfred

    I already said in the other note: I'm too lazy to move! Not that I
    disagree with everything about the DEFCU, but I really can live with a
    forced-savings Christmas Club account. Although if this fees stuff
    don't change after the next election it might just be the impetous I
    need.
    
    (BTW, years ago I stopped trying to get any sort of loan from the DEFCU
    - they always refused me. Although I have perfect credit and have
    always received the credit I have asked for from other creditors. That
    almost made me leave, but, like I said above...)
    
    -Glenn-

I'm keeping $5 (actually, I think, closer to $15 -- I'm a relationship
member, after all) in the dCU so I can vote.

I feel that I've invested a lot of emotional energy twice to get the CU to
do business with me the way I want to be served.  I'm not going to quit
completely because I don't want to give up.

The convenience of the ATM in the lobby made me bring a lot of my business
back last spring when I moved into CXO3.  The others I deal with are on my
drive home and offer drive-through services.  Convenience isn't a major
factor, in other words.

The joint Garrod/Gransewicz/Fillmore-Gillette position is what I want to
see in a Credit Union and I'll work toward that.  If they fail, I'm gone.

BobW

PS, I'm an RM because of my VISA balance, rather than because of my grand
8-) savings.

    Convenience mainly ...
    
    Were it not for the possibility of cleaning the act up, I'd be   gone
    now ...
    
    Stuart

    Because I'm an owner, not just a customer (regardless of what DCU may
    think).  If it hadn't been for this, I would never have bothered to
    join DCU when I started working at Digital.
    
    Bob

    I'm a member because it **USED** to be convenient and I'm too lazy to
    move.  But year after year a little bit of my business seems to find
    its way elsewhere.  My checking account (and the bulk of my direct
    deposit) has gone to WCIS (no fees, more convenient for my wife, and
    they return our checks...)  Credit card went away when they wouldn't
    waive the fee.  I have enough other free cards that it was no big deal.
    My wife's savings account got closed (low balance, little activity) at
    DCU's suggestion during the "big cleanup".  Since then, she's started a
    small business.  DCU wasn't even considered.  I'm down to 1 savings
    account and a car loan (neither of which is adequate to make me a
    relationship member).  The loan will be payed off within the next year,
    and given the current climate at DEC, I'm still rather debt sensitive. 
    I plan to put another 3 or 4 years on each of my cars (approx 90k
    miles, each) before replacing one.  Fortunately, they're both in good
    shape.
    
    I'll keep the savings account (and the meagre amount that goes into
    each week) up until such time as they decide to charge me a fee for
    that too.  And then, I'm outta here.  In the mean-time, I'll continue
    to vote for those who I think will work to turn this mess around, and
    hopefully, in a couple of years, DCU will give me a REASON to do my
    business with them...
    
    Rich (Member since '84 or so...)

Convenience is a big reason for me as well.

No fees for normal services used to be a reason.  I've left at least banks
in the past when fees were imposed.  I'm a "relationship member" now, but I
don't even wish to have to worry about fees.

I don't have a car loan with DCU because both times I bought since I joined
DCU, I got manufacturers incentive (2.61%/24 months and most recently 0%/48
months) programs that far outweighed anything DCU (or any other bank or CU)
could come up with.  When I bought my house, DCU was higher than many other
rates I found.

I don't have a credit card with DCU because I have two no-fee cards now.  I
don't carry balances, so interest rates don't concern me.  I run $6-8K a
year through the two cards.

I am temporarily based in France, and I have the need to pay bills in 
the U.S. dollars.  In particular, I have a joint account with my son, 
who pays his college bills with money I put into that account, often via
Easy-Touch transfers.

The fee structure is an abomination, and I will do what I can to have it 
removed.  When my circumstances no longer require the convenience of the 
DCU accounts, and if the fees remain, I will leave the DCU.

- Scott

    
    All the same reasons others have given, but mostly because I will
    *NOT* be patronized with arrogance.  As far as I am concerned the
    fees crowd is going to be sorry for having underestimated the 
    membership.
    
    Steve
    

    Convenience -- having a branch within short walking distance is tough
    to beat in that regard.
    
    I financed my home with DCU 3 or so years ago.  Best rate around and
    the people processing my loan jumped through a few hoops to meet my
    closing date despite roadblocks set up by the seller.
    
    The branch staff, local ATMs, and the EasyTouch system make the DCU
    very easy to do business with.
    
    Everytime I've looked to get a second institution (when I relocated to
    Texas, when my wife had her own job, etc), I could not find anyone who
    wouldn't charge fees in some manner, or who offered anything
    substantially better than DCU that would make me want to change to
    their institution for my primary banking.

    
    I've left banks that imposed new fees. I couldn't do anything to
    voice my displeasure *except* leave. if DCU was just another bank I
    would have left last month.
    
    But DCU is different. I guess I'm still here partly for the convenience
    (although an institution that provided free ATM access would easily
    counter that aspect). But mostly I'm still here because I'm an OWNER,
    and now I'm really P-O'd, and I'm going to *DO* something about it
    besides walking away.
    
    My first objective is to establish a BoD that is interested in running
    a true credit *UNION*, and not a country club that pits Valued Members
    against pond scum. I believe that this objective will be met by electing
    Dave Garrod and Chris Fillmore-Gillett, and reelecting Phil Gransewicz,
    who together with Paul Kinzelman will provide a simple majority that
    espouses a true credit *UNION* philosophy along with good business
    sense.
    

in order of priority:

1) convenience

2) ability to create lots of "escrow" accounts and telephone transfer
   the funds from "escrow" into checking as needed -- great budgeting tool!

3) sentimentalality:  I'm partial to credit unions.  My dad started and
   managed Montgomery County Employees' Federal Credit Union in Maryland.
   This is an admittedly silly reason, but it plays a role.

I am leery of the new fee structure.  I left Baybanks because I felt that
they changed the rules so often that I couldn't keep track of what minimum
balance I needed where.  Although I'm a relationship member, I still resent
a couple of the fees which I'm not exempt from:  fees to close my old
Christmas Club; fees to receive a copy of the cancelled share draft.  I
remember the "good old days" when DCU didn't charge you if you needed a copy
as proof of payment.  I also remember when DCU used to publish how their 
interest rates compared to *other credit unions*.

I'm bemused that DCU appears to be interested in driving a segment of their
customer base away at a time when their customer population growth rate
is slowing.

Why I stay with DCU....

1.  It's like hitting yourself in the head with a hammer...it 
    feels so good when you stop.

:-)  :-)

Just kidding...


1.  Like most, it's a matter of convenience...ATM machine here
    at ZK, one at HLO which is nearby.

2.  It was a "no-brainer" to join DCU when I came to Digital.
    Didn't have to sneak out of my new job to spend an hour
    getting lost in New England looking for a bank :-).  So, I just
    signed up at the HLO branch.

3.  I have automatic withdrawal from multiple sources.  Unwinding
    those ACH withdrawals will be a big pain.

4.  It's basically a good place, with some silly ideas and policies
    that need to be corrected.  So I stick with it.  Hopefully,
    persistence and patience will give the members a REAL credit
    union.


Chris

Why I am a credit union member:

    1.	It's convenient.  Even when I was in California (for 7 years,
	and with no local branch), I could have accounts for my taxes, 
	house/car insurance, save for a new car, etc. and have it 
	painlessly deposited every week for me.  And I could use
	Easytouch to transfer the money to my checking when I needed it.

    2. 	I like the idea of a credit union - people helping people.

    3.	I didn't even shop around for my mortgage, just used the credit
	union, cause of #2 above.  I expect DCU to have competitive rates.
	I don't expect to have to check up on them (although I probably
	will next time).

    4. 	I'm really irritated about the $5 Christmas Club fee.  OK, I
	don't read the fine print on all the mailings, and it caught
	me by surprise.  I have over $800 they are holding hostage in
	my "holiday club", and I refuse to pay the $5.  I have stopped 
	deposits to this account for now and will use the amnesty if 
	they offer it.

I am by nature a saver.  I am easily a "relationship member", and under
today's rules will probably never have to pay a fee.  I am not interested
in figuring out monthly what the new rules are so that I can make sure
I don't pay fees.  They caught me on the Christmas Club this time, 
what will they catch me on next time?

Look, I have enough to do without worrying about this.  Stop changing
the rules.  I am sticking around to vote for the three no fees candidates.
If things don't change I will begrudgingly spend the time to investigate
other credit unions and banks, and most likely after going to all that
trouble take my "relationship" elsewhere.

Janice

Convenience.

There was a time when my credit card, mortgage and auto loan
were all through DCU.  They lost my credit card business,
I've refinanced twice through other companies and when this
auto loan is paid, it's likely my next auto loan will be
through someone else (cheaper).

If I ever have to pay fees on my checking account, I'll
pull that to.

I expect that I'll always keep a minimum deposit so that I
can do things like vote and draw out a few dollars when I
need it.

Collis

At one time, my car loan and certificate of deposits were the DCU.
In fact, with my car loan, the DCU even included a life
insurance policy at no charge. And the interest rates on 
time deposit were the best around.

Now, I use the DCU for convenience and also for saving money
for property tax, etc.

I use the following banks for the my other needs:

1. Citibank Ford Visa - give a 5% rebate and also "pay" me
   $25 a year to use the card.  (They actually charge me $25 but
   credit my account for a $50 rebate.)

2. BayBank - checking and ATM. They return checks and have thousands
   of tellers.

Gim

Why I'm still with DCU:

Convenience - I'm fortunate to work at a site with a branch and an ATM.  I'm
unfortunate to live in a town with very few alternatives - at last count,
we were down to just 3 S&L offices, no commercial bank offices, and the
one credit union office closed.

No fees for the services I use - checking, RSVP (or whatever it's called now),
VISA, DCU ATM.  As long as these all stay free, I'll stay - the cost of
switching is too great.

/bruce

    re: .17 As far as bothering anyone behind the counter when you 'abuse'
    the DCU to cash your check once a week - it apparently bothers the
    manager of the HLO branch who made a point of describing 'those people'
    as abusers which is "why we need to get rid of them with fees". I don't
    know if she was just spouting management's party line or if she really
    believed it, but she sure sounded like she believed it!

Fees don't stop someone from using DCU as a place to cash
checks (which I would certainly still do even if I closed out
my other activities with DCU); they just irritate and
annoy (to varying degrees) people who really use the credit
union.

    
    RE: .21
    
>Fees don't stop someone from using DCU as a place to cash
>checks (which I would certainly still do even if I closed out
>my other activities with DCU); they just irritate and
>annoy (to varying degrees) people who really use the credit
>union.
    
    You mean the CURRENT FEES don't stop someone from using DCU as a
    place to cash checks, don't you?
    

    >You mean the CURRENT FEES don't stop someone from using DCU as a
    >place to cash checks, don't you?
 
Yes, that's what I mean.  I suppose if they force enough people
into being true Credit Union abusers (if there is such a thing,
certainly people who only use the services qualify), then they'll
make a fee for that, too.

Collis

    
    Yup, just NOT worth pissing customers off...  sigh.
    

    
    I stay due to the convenience.
    
    This morning I was at the DCU when someone came in and asked to see the
    blue book for current car values.  He wanted to sit at the table right
    outside the credit union to look at it.  They would not let him unless
    he left his badge with them.   I couldn't believe they did that.

    Our town library has had problems with popular items such as
    Consumer Reports, Morningstar, etc. The solution, unfortunately, was to
    keep them behind the desk and have each user sign for it.
    
    The blue book is a similar item. The DCU can either have the borrower
    sign for it or have him leave the badge. We all pay  for the dishonest
    few.
    
    Gim
    
    

    
    
    I stay mostly for convenience... It's easier to deposit and withdraw..
    plus the ease to get a car loan and have it taken out weekly... I 
    realize a "bank" or another credit union can do it, but I'm here
    so I bank here... I also like the easy touch system... being able to
    check my checks and transfer money around as needed, pay the Visa bill...
    So far free checking... since I have the car loan it doesn't cost
    me yet... although once that goes below the magic $3500, then I can
    only hope the rules would have been changed...
    
    ANother reason... I just bought 600 checks and don't want to waste
    them...;-)
    
    John                            

Originally - I joined because DEC (not Digital) was family - and the family was
starting a credit union, which felt like a nice family thing to do; the values
espoused were right. I work at a remote sales office - nothing down the hall
from me - there's barely a hall.

Later - I used DCU for accumulating vacation funds, ran my IRA out of it, did a
few CDs, and a home equity line of credit.

Lately - I refinanced our home mortgage last summer; good experience from a
banking point of view.

Throughout - I have been increasingly aware that the promise of being an
owner/customer with a return of extra services and/or profit to the owners has
not been realized. Then massive malfeasance took place, the board woke up and
circled its wagons against the owners. We voted in a lesser set of rascals who
kept decisions secret for months (relationship banking - did they think to
emulate Chase Manhattan?) and the rest is history ...

... right down to the $5 which I will use to vote in (or back) people who see
the UNION in DCU.

Norm

    
    This had nothing to do with pleasing everybody.  It had everything to
    do with good customer relations.
    

    
    Re: .33
    
    > Just saying that you can't please everyone.
    
    Do you have any data to back up this assertion?  The successful
    companies of this decade and as far into the future as we can
    currently see will all have total customer satisfaction as their
    goal.  Perhaps you ought to tell them they're chasing a ghost.
    
    
    Steve
    

    I don't think so, Steve.  The successful companies concentrate on doing
    some things well and get out of the things that they can't do well (or
    don't bother getting into them to begin with).

    Re: .36
    
    > I don't think so, Steve.  The successful companies concentrate on doing
    > some things well and get out of the things that they can't do well (or
    > don't bother getting into them to begin with).
    
    What *IS* your point?  Any successful company that concentrates on
    doing some things well, but doesn't have the goal of total customer
    satisfaction is not going to succeed at doing those things *well
    enough* to stay in business.  "Well" is and always has been defined by
    customers voting with their dollars, not by companies.  The ONLY way
    you can do ANY things well is to get committed to the customers in 
    markets where you want to be successful and then do whatever it takes
    to satisfy them.  Any other course of action is just playing around.
    Your insistence that you can't please all of the people is just a lot
    of baloney.  Many companies are getting wise to the fact that if you
    DON'T set out to achieve total customer satisfaction that you're going
    to be rolled over fast.  THE only commonly recognized business strategy
    for success in the current global economy is to be customer driven.
    The stakes are so high because of the intense competition that if you
    don't commit all to achieving total satisfaction, you simply will not
    stay in business.  NO ONE in the business of advising companies on 
    business strategy disagrees with that.  The only areas of disagreement
    are on what strategies are best for achieving that total satisfaction.
    If you don't see that you are simply not up on what is going on in the
    global business environment.  
    
    Steve
    

    	Convenience.  Period.

    I joined because my previous experience with a credit union (TELCO)
    had been a pleasant one and I wanted to join my fellow employees
    in their credit union.
    
    It's semi-convenient for me, however since ALF never got an ATM
    and I have a restrictive phone/work schedule, that little bank in
    Buford, Ga. with Saturday banking and it's free ATM is starting to
    look better all the time.
    
    I'm a relationship member because of direct deposit (although the
    DCU doesn't get to hold on to my money for too long most months). 
    My savings and credit cards are elsewhere because I got a better
    deal.
    
    EasyTouch is a nice touch!
    
    I thought about closing my account and moving everything to that
    little bank in Buford (LOTS of freebies for flat $9.50/mo); I've
    stayed because Phil Gransewicz took the time to encourage me to
    stay when I posted my intention to leave awhile back.
    
    However, if some of the DCU board members and DCU management don't
    lose that arrogant attitude (and soon); then I'll have my money
    deposited directly into a bank that is *totally* convenient for
    me.
    

>>    I'm a relationship member because of direct deposit (although the
>>    DCU doesn't get to hold on to my money for too long most months).
Ummm, I dont think so. I wasnt a relationship member so I switched to direct
dep. to get around having to pay fines (called fees by DCU) on my checking acct.
However just because I switched to direct dep. still didnt make me a
relationship member. (Atleast thats my understanding of it...Im SURE Ill be
corrected if Im wrong though. :^)) I guess Im kind of 'above' an abuser but not
quite a relationship member.
				JimG  

    
    Re .40: you are correct.
    

re: .40

>> I guess Im kind of 'above' an abuser but not quite a relationship member.

This is an interesting category.  There are actually three classes of members.
DCU probably considers you a semi-abuser.  :-)

    
    Re: .40
    
    If you have direct deposit to checking of $500 or more per month
    then you have no fees on CHECKING.  Being a "relationship member"
    means you will have no fees at all.
    
    Steve
    

    I stand corrected.
    
    The point I was trying to make is that I do not have to pay checking
    fees now so any decision I make to stay/leave the DCU will not be
    biased because I've been hit with the fee.
    
    

Karen,
I wasnt trying to correct but rather inform you that
youre not a relationship member on the basis of direct
deposit. It seemed from your reply that you thought direct
dep made you a relationship member. We're in the same no
mans land somewhere between abuser and relationship member.
I suspect though, in DCUs view, we're alot closer to abuser than
relationship member. Like you, if things dont change significantly
after the election Im going to bail out. 

BTW I use DCU exclusively for my 'banking' but really dont understand
why direct dep. should cause checking fines to be waived. Ive had a
long history of depositing my  paper check every week (which I prefer).
So how does direct dep. (the Digital way) show anymore intent to use DCU
as ones primary (or only) financial institution? I guess I dont understand the
logic by which this decision was arrived at. The only thing I see that I'm
'guilty' of is not keeping enough money in my accts.

				JimG

Re .46
Yep, thats kinda what I figured. However, whats to stop you from withdrawing
what was direct deposited (same effort as depositing a paper check) and going
down the street? It still doesnt make sense....to me anyway. :^)

					JimG

    I thought it might be interesting to pull up info on what being a
    relationship member gets you.  I've posted it after a few comments of
    my own.
    
    Based on this (and I admit I might be missing something as I don't have
    a copy of the original mailing on hand) it looks like the benefits that
    a relationship member has over a non-relationship member is free
    checking, free club accounts, and a no fee Visa card.  If you have
    direct deposit of more than $500/month or maintain a minimum balance of
    $500, you get free checking (but you don't get a free Visa card).  If
    you club accounts have minimum balances of $100 each, there is no fee.
    
    I've asked a few times what the Phil, Chris and Dave consider to be
    basic services but have yet to receive an answer (maybe I missed it,
    anyone have a pointer?).
    
    If basic services = free checking, one doesn't have to have a
    relationship to get that -- one only has to have direct deposit or a
    minimum balance.  I think there are some legitimate arguments over the
    appropriateness of the amounts currently accepted by DCU to waive these
    fees.
    
    If basic services = free checking and a free Visa card, I do question
    the definition of "basic" since I don't see too many other institutions
    offering a free Visa (LACU might have been one that does) to every
    member.
    
    While trying to find the following posting I found it interesting that
    in the early days of the relationship banking discussion that some of
    today's vocal opponents actually found some merit to the idea of
    relationship banking.
    
                <<< SMAUG::USER$944:[NOTES$LIBRARY]DCU.NOTE;5 >>>
                                    -< DCU >-
================================================================================
Note 694.61                I'm a Relationship Member!                  61 of 242
WLDBIL::KILGORE "Dysfunctional DCU relationship"     59 lines  16-SEP-1993 21:33
                               -< New DCU fees >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[NOTE: Below is a partial listing of the "Schedule of Fees and
 Service Charges. Most of the fees listed below are marked with the
 footnote, "Service Fees effective January 1, 1994", with the
 exception of the VISA CREDIT CARD fees, which existed before but
 are now marked "(Waived for relationship member.*)"]

[1]Current Vacation and U-Name-It accounts become Member Described accounts.

[2]Current Christmas Club accounts become Holiday Club accounts.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

GENERAL
------------------------------------------------------------
Stop Payment (ACH)                                  $ 1.00
Duplicate/Copy 
    (Deposited check)                               $ 1.00
    (Withdrawal slip)                               $ 1.00
Individual Retirement ACcount
    (One-time administration fee)                   $15.00
Levy/Trustee Summons                                $20.00

MEMBER_DESCRIBED SAVINGS [1]
------------------------------------------------------------
Monthly fee                                         $ 2.00
 (Waived for relationship member*
  or daily balance over $100.)

CHECKING ACCOUNT
------------------------------------------------------------
Monthly Fee                                         $ 4.00
  (Waived for relationship member*; or daily
   checking account balance of $500 or more; or
   Direct Deposit of $500 or more monthly; or age
   18 or younger, age 62 or loder.)
Automatic Transfer from Primary Savings             $ 3.00
  (Limit three per month / Fee
   waived for relationship member.*)
Temporary Checks (for 10 checks)                    $10.00

VISA CREDIT CARD
------------------------------------------------------------
VISA Classic Card Annual Fee  $15.00
  (Waived for relationship member.*)
VISA Gold Card Annual Fee                           $15.00
  (Waived for relationship member.*)

EARLY CLOSING PENALTIES
------------------------------------------------------------
Holiday Club Account [2]                            $ 5.00



*A relationship member has $3,500 in combined
 household deposit account balances or $3,500 in
 combined outstanding loans or a sold DCU
 mortgage.

    
    

    
    	This is good discussion because it does clearly point out the
    different membership classes:
    
    			1. Relationship Member
    			   Doesn't pay checking fees, or some other fees
    
    			2. Non-Relationship
    			   (doesn't pay checking fees, but pays some other fees)
    
    			3. Non-Relationship
    			   (pays checking fees, as well as other fees)
    
    	But of course people will float between the layers, based upon their
    financial position on a particular day or a major financial event.  A
    service you don't pay for today, you could pay for tomorrow and visa versa.
    
    I don't know about anybody else but I have a better things to worry
    about than what class of member I am on a particular day.  Or better
    put, what class of OWNER I am.  Will DCU even be able to accurately and
    quickly be able to maintain this membership class structure?  Are we
    now going to have to explain why we should be classified a "valued
    customer" instead of one of the "others".
    

I consider a no-fee credit card a basic service wherever I go and avoid fees
unless there is some other dramatic advantage.  Let me summarize:

Cards I have owned over the years
AT&T Universal		no fee
Bank of New York	no fee
Chemical Bank	3 cards	   fee waived because I asked
Citicorp		   fee waived because I asked
Colo Nat Bank		   fee waived because I asked
SSFCU		2 cards no fee
Wachovia		$18/yr -- prime rate interest rate
DCU			"Relationship" required

I am also considering the CompuServe affinity card wich has no fee and a ~12%
rate.

BobW

Yes, that sounds difficult to me; a hassle I don't need. Much better if they
just get rid of the fees.

-Glenn-

I join every credit union I can, and keep the minimum balance in it.  For my
"real" financial dealings I shop both credit unions and banks for the best deal.

DCU has never yet had the best deal on anything I wanted, but they may someday.

Currently I am a member of 3 credit unions.  My checking account is in another
(non-DCU) credit union and my mortgage is from a bank.

John

    
    .51
    
    Yes, it's a pain. I had to close accounts to avoid charges.
    Accounts are just bytes in a computer... I can't understand why
    if I have one account or 100 it should make a difference. The total
    sum is my investment in the dcu. Not the sum of each part.