Conference 7.286::dcu

    You might want to check the CONSUMER notes, note 1263
    
    	(KP7 or SELECT etc...)

    I have tried accessing ALIEN::CONSUMER, BEING::CONSUMER, AND
    DELNI::CONSUMER, to no avail.  One file is not found. The other
    two are remote node unknown.  What am I doing wrong?  I sure would
    like to get into the Consumer conference.
     
    Thank you.
    

    The ALIEN/BEING folks would rather you used ALIEN to get to CONSUMER,
    not BEING.  Also, DELNI is not part of the ALIEN/BEING cluster (ALIEN and
    BEING are at Spit Brook, DELNI is in Littleton). 

							-- Nina

    
    	Back to the subject at hand, a checking account user is under
    	no obligation to purchase checks from the institution at which
    	he has the account.  We get out checks through Current Card
    	company in Colorado Springs.  As an introductory offer you will
    	get 200 checks for $2.95 (!), and subsequent reorders are $6.95
    	per 200, and I believe you get quantity discounts.  You get
    	a host of different designs, including some that have repeating
    	series of designs within one book.  Very attractive.  I'm sure
    	that other printing companies have good prices on their own
    	checks as well.  There is no magic to printing up checks, and
    	your bank will accept and process them without a problem.  DCU
    	(and all other banks that scalp the prices of checks) are merely
    	revenue-enhancing at the customer's expense and ignorance.
    	
	Joe Oppelt

    
    Please note that the $2.95 checks are *not* duplicate types, which most
    credit union customers want/need.  Current does have NCR duplicate checks
    now; I think the intro offer is $3.95 for the first 150.
    
    Beverly
    
            <<< BEING::BLKHOL$DUA6:[NOTES$LIBRARY]CONSUMER.NOTE;1 >>>
              -< Consumer info exchange -- for Digital employees >-
================================================================================
Note 1263.5              New checks NOT from your bank?                  5 of 23
ATSE::KASPER "Let's organize an anarchy"             18 lines  14-SEP-1988 15:16
                  -< The first order is $2.95 for 200 checks >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I've been using checks printed by Current, Inc, in Colorado Springs,
    for about a year.  I've got them for accounts at 2 different banks, and
    have had no problems at all.  They are very high quality, and follow
    the same standard format as American and Deluxe (the two bank-direct
    biggies).  We've occasionally had a teller claim that the deposit slip
    couldn't be from their bank, but they seemed to cope alright once we
    gave them a little reassurance.

    The number for Current is 800-525-7170 (not to be confused with the
    CSC, which is 800-525-7100!), or you can write to them at:

		Current, Inc
		Colorado Springs, Colorado  80941

    Just tell them that you want the check printing flyer.

    Beverly

    
     I just got an add for personalized checks in my local sunday paper's
     coupon section.  It is by a company called "Checks in the Mail"
    
     They had 12 different check designs to choose from with a free
     vinyl cover with purchase ( Such a deal !! ). They also offered
     duplicate checks .... prices are :
    
     Single order wallet style, 200 checks    $ 4.95
     Double order wallet style, 400 checks    $ 9.90
     Single order duplicate (2 copy) style    $ 5.95
     Double order duplicate (2 copy) style    $11.90
    
     They have an 800# (1-800-422-2439) if you want more info.  I don't
     know what I paid for my last bunch of checks from DCU, will have
     to dig out my old register so can anyone help as to whether this
     is a good deal or not ??
    
     I think I'll try them for my next order if they're competitive
     prices.  Will let you know how they come out.
    
     Sharon

    I have a checking account at a local bank as well as at the DCU
    and their check charges are even worse.  I can't remember the exact
    amount, but it was in excess of $10.00 for 200 simple-minded, blue
    duplicates the last time I ordered.
    
    Although expensive, I do consider duplicates a life-saver and probably
    would never be able to function without them any longer.  I think
    the extra cost is much better spent on duplicates than on monograms
    or other gaudy personalizations!
    
    Larry
    

    The check charge is $8.29 per 200.
    

            <<< ALIEN::BLKHOL$DUA6:[NOTES$LIBRARY]CONSUMER.NOTE;1 >>>
              -< Consumer info exchange -- for Digital employees >-
================================================================================
Note 1263.27             New checks NOT from your bank?                 27 of 27
MAKITA::MCCABE                                        4 lines  18-JAN-1989 17:41
                       -< A new number for Current Inc. >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Ref .5
    	I just called Current Inc and they have a new customer service
    number for checks. (800) 426-0822.
    								Chris
    
    [And in the "Small World" dept, I got a service rep who used to live in
     Manchester when I called just now!  I wondered how she knew the zip...
    			-- Bev ]
    

    I found two posting errors on each of my last two DCU sharedraft
    statements.  Each time I wrote to DCU to get the statements corrected
    they checked, and the errors were real.  Usually they were an 
    incorrect sharedraft number.
    
    The reason?  "Current" checks!  According to Mary Madden (of DCU),
    these checks are printed with ink that is too light to meet the
    industry standards.  Because of this, their processing machines were
    rejecting all my drafts, and they had to be processed manually. 
    Needless to say, since human beings had their fingers in the works
    accuracy really suffered. . .
    
    Worse, the processing machines at the Federal Reserve also rejected my
    checks; and the Fed assesses DCU a fee every time for special handling. 
    At this time DCU is nice enough not to pass this on to their members.
    
    I was also warned that had my check numbers gone over 8999 DCU would
    automatically processed my checks as loan drafts, since DCU reserves
    the 9000 series for these.  In my case the checks would have been
    rejected, since I don't have an open line of credit.  If I had, they
    would have cleared through the wrong account.
    
    DCU also has some heartburn because the checks have no DCU logo, and
    are harder for them to identify.
    
    I asked about other companies (i.e. Checks in the Mail), and was told
    that they cause similar problems.
    
    All in all, I found that other checks were no bargain (especially after
    the initial special price).  The cost both me and the DCU a lot of
    wasted time (which we all know equals money).
    
    Finally, to bring me "back into the fold," DCU is providing me with 150 
    free Harland duplicate checks.  Now that's a ~real~ bargain price!

    	re .14

    	I've been using checks printed from the CURRENT Co for years now,
    	and I have yet to encounter this problem.  I have used then for
    	two out of three of my DCU checking (share draft) accounts, and I 
    	have also used them for checking account from two other banks as
    	well.

    	Just watch.  Now that I have entered this reply, my checking
    	accounts will all go haywire...
    
    	Joe Oppelt

re .14:

I just took a look at my two checkbooks.  One contains Current checks for my
DCU account and the other contains Harland checks provided by another
financial institution.  Guess which one had darker ink.

    	re .16
    
    	The CURRENT checks?
    
    	Just a guess...

Give the man a cigar.

    Quite by accident, I found hidden (small brochure) in the information
    stand outside the ZKO DCU. a flier from Harland Checks for a variety of
    checks. So? Can we now get something other than the drab picture of a
    PC that we don't make anymore, or was this an accident. And what will
    the cost.
    
    q
    

    The DCU has always had a variety of checks available, with a catalogue
    from which to choose.  Ask to see the catalogue.  There are dozens of
    choices in it, perhaps a hundred.
    
    The catalogue even has one check design with an airplane medallion, but
    I want mine to have a picture of my sailplane and I haven't figured out
    how to do that yet.

Interesting thing about the Harland Checks (that I ordered)
beside their high cost, was the "free" gift checks in the box.

Each box comes with a pad (25 I think) of NON DUPLICATE 
"gift" checks (design is ribbons and boxes) which are in
the proper check numbering sequence.  I was some annoyed
as this makes a hols in my records, that I have to remember
AND the checks are useless, since DCU doesn't return checks
and there  are no duplicates in these sets.

    There are check producing companies that will design checks however you
    want them.  As long as they conform to the minimum standard (i.e.
    the items in the right place, and the bank/account numbers on the
    bottom), you can design your own checks.  They are usually fairly
    expensive of course, but I have seen some with some pretty interesting
    designs on them.
    
    	- Peter

        Years ago, several banks back, I had checks with a sailplane
        design on them I think they were from Deluxe, but I'm not
        positive. You might check with the AMA (model airplanes) or EAA
        (homebuilts) and see if they offer such checks to members.

    About the free checks without duplicates.  If they were at the end of
    the sequence you can just specify your next order of checks to start up
    where the gift checks started.  That way you don't have the hole.
    
    Chad
    

Re: .24

Except that an order is two boxes, and the "free" pad is in EACH
box.  So I still end up with a hole (25) in the middle.

I wouldn't have minded, the change in design, if they had been
duplicate checks.  What frosts me is that the free checks were
incompatible with the rest of my order (no Duplicates) and,
as I pointed out, in the middle and at the end of my sequence.

    So just what is the problem with a hole in the middle of the
    check-numbering sequence?  I really don't understand the problem. Is
    some form of perfectionist esthetics involved?

    Now, if you were worried about duplicate numbering, I could understand
    there is a real issue.  I carefully avoid that when I change checks,
    and I avoid it be creating a hole sufficiently large that I am
    guaranteed no duplicates.

    But a hole?

        If you aren't satisfied with what you got, send them back and tell
        them to redo the order, without holes or "free" checks, as you
        ordered them.

    I wanted to order checks from an outside company to keep my cost down
    but...the small print in some DCU information says I am to use their
    checks.
    
    Now I could be understanding that wrong but I wondered what they would
    do if I did use another kind of check.
    
    I hate to open a whole can of worms here but why can't DCU make some
    money on the checks they offer?  Isn't that just practical in any
    business?
    
    I realize the rules are a little different because of who/what DCU is
    and maybe I am reading their rules and regulations differently than
    others but I just wonder.
    
    I am not trying to start a war or a 25 note reply on this.  Just my
    thoughts.
    

    
    RE: .28
    
    You can order checks from any source you wish.  You don't have to use
    DCU's vendor.
    
    I don't know for certain if DCU does make money on checks ordered
    through their vendor but it wouldn't surprise me if they did.  

>    I hate to open a whole can of worms here but why can't DCU make some
>    money on the checks they offer?  Isn't that just practical in any
>    business?

I think the reason why I find it distasteful for them to make money off
of checks, is that they are a CREDIT UNION, which serves my interest.
They should be cheaper than a bank.

We own DCU.  We do not own a bank in most cases.

	- mark

Re: .30
Yes, but DCU has overhead. It can't break even and stay in business. DCU
must make money someplace. If you don't make money on checks, then DCU must
charge more for loans and pay less on interest. Or close branches.
I'm not saying whether DCU should or should not make money on any
particular service or product.
My point is that DCU *must* make money someplace. The question is where it
should make money.

       I've been using computer printable checks from NEBS for 4 years now.
    No problems with DCU.
                                     Denny

    At least DCU's Check vendor now offers something other than the drab
    pictures of PC100's on the checks now. Maybe, we can get DEc to follow
    suit, and repaint their tractor trailers, soon. Whoops, rathole....
    
    q
    

    Re: .-1
    
    Take it to humane::digital.		:-)

>    At least DCU's Check vendor now offers something other than the drab
>    pictures of PC100's on the checks now. 

	Do you mean that the only check style was the one with the PC100,
	to that the PC100 was the only "decoration" available? I've
	gotten plain checks through DEFCU's printer for years...

						Tom_K

    There are a hundred or so check options available.  See the
    catalog in any DCU office.

I joined DCU in 1983.  I have always had checks that had pastoral scenes on
them.  While I find the recent batch a bit more objectionable than I'd like,
I've never had any issues here.  Not once was there the suggestion that I should
have VT-200 checks.

    ...it's service that counts.  Over the years I've had occasion to
    submit many check orders to DCU's vendor; I estimate about 75% of the
    orders had problems of some sort:
    
    o misspelled street address
    o lost in the mail
    o mis-numbered checks
    o order 300 -- get 150
    o missing check number sequences
    
    just to cite a few.
    
    I now get better service (and price) from "Checks in the Mail".
    
    /Ed

    
    Seems several of these check printing companies have started over the
    last few years.  Maybe it's time DCU re-evaluated it's vendor and
    shopped around to see what the others are offering.  Maybe we could get
    a better deal if we play vendor A against vendor B?  The wonders of
    competition...
    
    Good thought provoking discussion.  I'll inquire about this.  Every few
    bucks saved helps these days.
    

	I've never had any troubles with my checks. I like the computer ones
	as well.

				Alfred

    
    	Could somebody who knows some of these check printing companys
    list them and their prices here?
    
    Thanks Joe

    A 75% problem rate seems a bit excessive - I guess you're just lucky!
    
    I've never had problems with DCU's check vendor.
    
    Dick.

    Well, I've been a member since DCU was founded. I only had to return 1
    set of checks and that was due to the fact that the receipt back was
    illegible. I have used over 3500 checks from DCU's check vendor. 
    
    Before we abandon the vendor, a survey might be in order. However,
    doesn't DCU keep a record of check orders and how many are returned for
    correction? Nothing speaks like the facts.

    IMHO:
    
    Clearly some people who have had a problem with getting checks printed,
    or feel the price is too high, would like to get a more reliable or
    cheaper source. 
    
    The previous notes suggestion to quantify the problem is a good one.
    But DCU hasn't got the data and an accurate survey is hard or
    impossible let's just let the members decide. People don't have to get
    their checks from the DCU's source. If enough members choose
    alternative sources then the DCU will be encouraged (by the loss of
    business) to change. If as I suspect most will continue to use the
    DCU's source people that want alternatives will find them and everybody
    wins in the end. 
    
    
    Perhaps people who chose alternatives could enter information about the
    service, quality, price, etc. of alternative sources they find in this
    thread. BOD members watch this notesfile and if they see a trend or a 
    good deal for the membership they can act on our behalf to take advantage 
    of it.
    
    /doug

    
    My comment about 'shopping around' for another vendor was more from the
    side of *possibly* reducing the cost of checks to the membership.  It
    seems more of these vendors exist today than 12 years ago.  DCU may be
    able to play them off each other and end up with a lower cost.  You
    never know until you try.
    
    And as others have said, people can always use whatever vendor they
    want.  I have used Current and Checks-in-the-Mail (if I remember
    correctly) and had no problem with them.  Printing checks isn't rocket
    science.  And I have never had my name mis-spelled!
    

RE: Note 128.46 by GUFFAW::GRANSEWICZ
    
>    My comment about 'shopping around' for another vendor was more from the
>    side of *possibly* reducing the cost of checks to the membership.  It
>    seems more of these vendors exist today than 12 years ago.  DCU may be
>    able to play them off each other and end up with a lower cost.  You
>    never know until you try.

A breath of fresh air...

The previous board and management at DCU following close behind would
have said if you can get a better deal elsewhere then do it.

I heard a BOD member say, lets look into getting a better deal for our
members!!!  Just willingness to look into it is by far better than, go
to another bank attitude.
    
>    And as others have said, people can always use whatever vendor they
>    want.  I have used Current and Checks-in-the-Mail (if I remember
>    correctly) and had no problem with them.  Printing checks isn't rocket
>    science.  And I have never had my name mis-spelled!

Ok, 3/4 breath of fresh air! :-)  You did say what I said the other BOD
would not have said, but at least it was as a side note...

	- mark

    Please remember if shopping for a new vendor to make sure all check
    types are available. I use 3-on-a-page and the last time I checked
    (1988) none of the alternate check vendors made 3-on-page with receipt
    checks.

    
    
    wouldn't it be cool to get checks iwth the ALPHA logo on!
    
    I should set up a business doing checks for Digits, wonder whether ity
    would be a conflict of interest?
    
    but seriously, who at DCU would I speak to about getting the
    "alpha-ready" logo printed on checks?
    
    Simon

Well, I just received two shirts and a hat with the Alpha logo embroidered on
them from an outside company. My understanding is that our legal eagles are
telling us NOT to use the Alpha logo for official Digital marketing purposes
since they can't trademark or copyright it. The company that did the Alpha
logo on the clothing is called Recognition and they are in Connnecticut
somewhere. 

regards,

Jim

    
    I called and got some literature awhile back from Checks-in-the-Mail
    and their prices were about 50% of the DCU prices.  I'd say with at
    least that comparison that the DCU is doing better than "making some
    money".  It borders on gouging IMO.
    
    Steve
    

	But it might be the check printer, rather than DEFCU, that is
	doing the gouging.

					Tom_K

    
    Re: .53
    
    The charge is levied by the DCU.  I don't pay the printer
    directly, and if the DCU is being gouged then why aren't
    they looking for another vendor since it's OUR money they
    are using to pay the bill?
    
    Steve
    

The Boston Glob printed a story this week about two Credit Union officials of 
the Mass. Federal Credit Union.  I think one was a Director and don't remember 
what the other one did.   They were indicted for taking bribes from their 
printers.   Didn't say if this was checks, statements or advertising or all 
their printing.

   RE: Checks In The Mail
   
   I don't know what DCU charges for checks since I don't have a DCU
   checking account.  But...
   
   I was unhappy with the rate my bank was charging.  So (from
   suggestions in this string), I checked out Checks In The Mail.  What
   did I find.  The first order was like 50% the cost of what my bank
   wanted.  HOWEVER, re-orders were about 70 cents less than my bank.
   
   Since we were planning on moving soon we placed an order for 200
   checks from Checks In The Mail.  200 would tide us over until we
   needed checks with the new address.  Well, we aren't moving.  But we
   aer going to investigate local printers and the Office Depot for
   check costs now.

One of my problems with DCU's check printing fee is that there's just no way
to predict what it'll be.

This time, it was $14.47 for a box of 150.  Last time, I think it was $14.12.
The charge always seems to get posted a day after the monthly statement gets
closed, so I can spend a month with an unbalanced checkbook.

Given the oddness of the number, I certainly hope they're just passing the
exact cost on to me.

To me, the checkbook isn't unbalanced - you just don't know *exactly*
how much you have in there at any time. As long as you know within a
dollar or so, you can keep from bouncing checks (or you can have
overdraft protection), why not just wait until the next statement when
you will know how much the checks cost to enter them in your account record?
If you do keep your balance near 0, enter $16 for the check charge, then
fix it when you get the next statement and you know exactly how much they
were?

Well, of course that's pretty much what I do.  Or, ask the DCU teller what
the going rate for checks is.  It's just anal behavior on my part.  ;-)

    re .57
    
    Well, I just ran into the same situation.  My checkbook hasn't balanced
    since I got checks a couple of weeks ago.  I asked the local branch
    what the check charge was, and they gave it to me.  Still can't balance
    my account out.
    
    I guess I could follow .58's advice, but I'm too much of a
    perfectionist when it comes to numbers!  8-)
    
    Don

   RE: Note 128.58 by PLOUGH::KINZELMAN "Paul Kinzelman" 
   
   While this is a solution, I think it misses the point.  Why should
   the costs be variable?  It's not just a matter of zero-balancing,
   but an annoyance factor that (it appears) could be easily eliminated.
   
   
   							Terza
   

There are at least three check printers that advertise in the Sunday inserts
in the newspaper -- Checks in the Mail, Current, and one other.  All have
good introductory prices, and not so good non-introductory prices.  I haven't
run out of introductory deals yet, but I don't write a lot of checks.

I asked DCU about check costs and stuff.

DCU passes the cost of the check printing thru to the member with only a
small nominal charge for postage. The cost went up (as noted in .-?) an
odd amount because the vendor price increased. If you wish to balance your
checkbook and know how much the checks will cost, just ask when you order
the checks. They can tell you exactly.

I also asked about the cheaper vendors. It seems that the less expensive
vendors often do a poor quality job of printing the magnetic ink on the
checks. It's been happening enough that it's been causing the feds a lot
of grief and they are considering some regulations concerning these check
vendors. One was so bad the feds actually did force them to improve their
quality.

If there are problems, please call the DCU information center. DCU keeps
track of complaints about their vendors. They have had relatively few
complaints about Harland.

The cost to the member for checks at DCU is cheaper than what other banks
charge their members (I haven't personally researched this however).

.63
>                                               If you wish to balance your
>checkbook and know how much the checks will cost, just ask when you order
>the checks. They can tell you exactly.

    Here's where I'll disagree with you.  I did ask the local branch what
    the check charge would be right after I ordered the checks.  They told
    me $11.65.
    
    Days later I asked again, cause my checkbook would not balance.  Yup,
    it's $11.65.  Yesterday I went back to the branch and asked, what was
    charged to my account?  $12.20 as of July 2, 1992.  They were surprised
    too!
    
    Sure enough, with $12.20 my checkbook now balances out and I know for
    sure which checks are still outstanding.
    
    So, what I learned from this was to ask the teller what showed up in
    the account as a charge.
    
    Don

    	re 3rd party printers
    
    	I always get the introductory price by swapping from one
    	printer to the next to continually get the introductory 
    	prices.  Cheap and simple.

    RE:.64  So ask them to credit you with the difference.  It was a
    commitment by them after all.
    
    		Danny

    re .66
    
    Since I look at the branch as the "messenger", I wouldn't consider
    asking them to credit me with the difference.
    
    Now, if they were the ones that directly sold me the checks and gave
    me a price, then up'd that price after selling to me...
    
    Don

>    Now, if they were the ones that directly sold me the checks and gave
>    me a price, then up'd that price after selling to me...

	They DID sell you the checks.  Al you did was order the checks from
  DCU.  You don't know or care how it's done, just that you get them delivered
  to you to use.  Note that they also bill you.

		Danny

I've been making the rounds of the mail-order check printers taking advantage
of their introductory offers.

My last order was from a check printer in the South.  Like every other check
order, this one warned that you should verify the information printed on the
checks.  Unfortunately, I didn't do this until I'd run out of my old checks. 
Sure enough there was an error -- the routing code at the bottom was incorrect
(strangely, the one in the upper right corner was correct).  I called the 800
number to report the error, and was told that the corrected checks would be
sent via priority mail.

When I hadn't received the checks 5 days later, I called back.  I was told
that the order hadn't been processed yet -- they had been closed for several
days due to a snowstorm, and were backlogged.

This snowstorm had occurred *before* I made the initial report.  I should have
been told that there would be a long delay. Instead I was misled into believing
that my checks would arrive soon.

The moral of the story is that you should verify the imprinted information
immediately, rather than waiting until you need the checks.

At one time, there was an advantage to
ordering checks from third parties. At current DCU prices,
there is little advantage:

DCU					Cost/100 checks
---------------------------		---------------
Box of 200 duplicate checks  $13.13	$6.565

Checks in the mail
---------------------------
First time customer, 
150 duplicate checks	     $ 6.95	$4.633

Repeat order
150 duplicate checks	     $ 9.95	$6.6333


I knowing of 3 check printing companies - so you can take advantage
of the first time customer price three times.

Gim

You can save a lot more if you don't insist on duplicate checks.  The
Checks In the Mail prices for 200 duplicates are $4.95/$6.95.

				Steve