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RE: . 0
What needs to happen is a bit of revolution at NCUA also. Maybe it has
been influenced by the presence of bankers and has lost its direction
also?
And then there is the Washington merry-go-round that appears to
have happened to some degree. Credit union people go to work for the
NCUA, NCUA people go to work for credit unions and pretty soon what
used to be an arms length business relationship becomes a romantic
stroll down the street, hand in hand. Something is bound to be lost
when this occurs. Unfortunately, I think its mostly OUR loss. A few
letters to Senators and congress(wo)men will be in order after this
'experience' is over. Just so they won't be totally surprised when
credit unions start crashing down like the S&Ls.
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| Re: .0 & .2
Excuse me, but what exactly do you think the NCUA is?
I always thought it was a guarantee organization with Federal
sponsorship. Those credit unions wishing to be Federal credit
unions, and insure their member's deposits, must follow the
guidelines set by the NCUA for fiscal responsibility and
become members of the association.
If I understand their role correctly, the NCUA most certainly
is NOT concerned with the day-to-day operation of credit
unions (as long as the credit union meets the NCUA's financial
requirements). The NCUA is NOT concerned with disputes between
members or between members and management of the credit union.
The way it's SUPPOSED to work, a credit union should be a place
where members can go to get outstanding interest on savings,
the lowest charges on loans, good service, and minimal fees. It
should be the first place you think of for a loan or a credit
card.
However, there is nobody out there who is charged with making sure
that all those good things happen. The only way for members to
do that is to choose the best possible people to run the credit
union.
- - Steve
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>Excuse me, but what exactly do you think the NCUA is?
Very hard to tell at this point in time. Looks like all they care
about is whether a CU is or is about to be insolvent. Maybe that's all
they have the manpower for.
>I always thought it was a guarantee organization with Federal
>sponsorship. Those credit unions wishing to be Federal credit
>unions, and insure their member's deposits, must follow the
>guidelines set by the NCUA for fiscal responsibility and
>become members of the association.
Sounds reasonable. If by 'Federal sponsorship' you mean they are
funded by the federal government, that is incorrect. They are funded
by the credit unions they oversee. Ahhh, there's that word guidelines
again. Nobody MUST follow 'guidelines'.
>If I understand their role correctly, the NCUA most certainly
>is NOT concerned with the day-to-day operation of credit
>unions (as long as the credit union meets the NCUA's financial
>requirements). The NCUA is NOT concerned with disputes between
>members or between members and management of the credit union.
Nobody wants them to be involved in day to day operations, unless they
pose a danger to the solvency of the credit union. My main problem with
them stems from their complete lack of concern for credit union bylaws.
They just don't care if they are being violated. They just can't be
bothered. IMO, bylaw violations are a strong indicator of adherance to
other more important rules & regs.
They now also appear to have some 'standard bylaws' which severely impact
membership rights in a credit union. The impact of some of these
'standard bylaws' is that credit unions are one notch below banks. What
good is membership participation on the credit committee if the NCUA
allows it to be eliminated without membership approval or notification?
What good is the right to call a special meeting if the requirements are
such that it would take a massive organization and big $$$ to call it?
What good is the right to run by petition if the requirements make it
almost impossible to achieve? Are these 'rights' or 'pseudo-rights'?
>The way it's SUPPOSED to work, a credit union should be a place
>where members can go to get outstanding interest on savings,
>the lowest charges on loans, good service, and minimal fees. It
>should be the first place you think of for a loan or a credit
>card.
Well then obviously DCU is *not* a credit union by this definition.
However, they claim to follow all NCUA rules & regs. How does a credit
union evolve to a near bank state of operation? The answer: NCUA
allows it to happen.
>However, there is nobody out there who is charged with making sure
>that all those good things happen. The only way for members to
>do that is to choose the best possible people to run the credit
>union.
True, but as we are seeing, that is much easier said than done.
What is now happening with 11 petition candidates on the ballot could
only happen at DEC (or some other networked company). And we are
witnessing the warm reception from DEC to all these petition
candidates. The system doesn't work because it's been changed into a
set of rules & regs which serve the status quo and serve it well. All
the time, the members of DCU actually thought they belonged to a credit
union, they actually belonged to a bank. The credit union passed away
years ago. There was just no announcement of the passing. We are just
now mourning its loss and trying to re-create it.
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| Hmm . . . let me see if we can do a point-by-point analysis of your
point-by-point analysis of my points. (Am I nested to the right
level yet?? :-)
> >Excuse me, but what exactly do you think the NCUA is?
>
> Very hard to tell at this point in time. Looks like all they care
> about is whether a CU is or is about to be insolvent. Maybe that's all
> they have the manpower for.
The issue is more than just "manpower". Is the NCUA chartered to do
anything more than try to ensure that the credit union remains solvent,
and protect the depositors if it can't? I thought that was all they
were SUPPOSED to care about!
> If by 'Federal sponsorship' you mean they are
> funded by the federal government, that is incorrect. They are funded
> by the credit unions they oversee.
Hmm . . . I thought the NCUA insurance was backed with Federal guarantees,
just like the FDIC. Is that not correct?
> Ahhh, there's that word guidelines
> again. Nobody MUST follow 'guidelines'.
Perhaps I used the wrong word - I believe the ones the credit unions
MUST follow are considered "regulations".
> My main problem with
> them stems from their complete lack of concern for credit union bylaws.
> They just don't care if they are being violated. They just can't be
> bothered. IMO, bylaw violations are a strong indicator of adherance to
> other more important rules & regs.
I think this may be the key point in your whole posting. If I understand
their role correctly, the NCUA isn't SUPPOSED to care about a silly,
trivial little thing like a few bylaws being ignored. That's not their
job. If you can walk into their office and show them that the DEFCU is
violating their financial or reserve regulations, they'll act. Anything
else would probably be described, from their perspective, as "a member
dispute". They won't listen to you. They won't care. To some extent,
they're not supposed to!
I also agree with your last sentence - adherance to the bylaws, and
preventing event the faintest hint of impropriety, are excellent
indications that someone is following ALL the rules (they still may
not be fun to do business with, but they'd probably at least function!).
Now, your comments about the bylaws themselves. I'm trying to get a
copy of their "model bylaws" directly from the NCUA. I got curious
about exactly what the NCUA DOES insist on. That would be lots of
fun to take to the Annual Meeting, wouldn't it?
I agree with you that the way the bylaws are currently worded (as best
we can figure out!), the only people with any power and any say in the
overall operation of the DEFCU are the elected memebers of the Board
of Directors. I just don't agree that it's the fault of the NCUA!
(And have you checked to make SURE that the by-laws were really changed?
I'm sure the Board of Directors THINKS they're changed, but was each
step of the process outlined in Article XXI of the bylaws followed
properly?)
> >The way it's SUPPOSED to work, a credit union should be a place
> >where members can go to get outstanding interest on savings,
> >the lowest charges on loans, good service, and minimal fees. It
> >should be the first place you think of for a loan or a credit
> >card.
>
> Well then obviously DCU is *not* a credit union by this definition.
Aha! You got my point! :-)
> However, they claim to follow all NCUA rules & regs. How does a credit
> union evolve to a near bank state of operation? The answer: NCUA
> allows it to happen.
Once again - I don't think the NCUA has the responsibility, or any
real concern, over how the DEFCU relates to its members. My basic
point is that the NCUA is NO answer of ANY sort to the problems
with the DEFCU.
Perhaps I'm over-reacting to the frequent appearance of this subject
in this notes file, but the many notes having a tone like "Oh, why,
oh, why doesn't the NCUA come and make everything better?" finally
got to me. I'm afraid these outbursts of mine do happen on
occasion!
- - Steve
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