Conference 7.286::dcu

re: .0
I sympathize with the inconvenience you are experiencing as a result of this
change in policy on DCU's part, but I feel that DCU is fully justified in it's
decision to halt this parctice, for whatever reasons it may have seen fit.

Petty cash here at ZK used to sell stamps (before DCU did) but cut it out
for some reason. If it wasn't important enough to DEC to continue to
provide the service, I see no reason why DCU should be expected to do so.

ZK now has a vending machine in the Cafeteria to sell postage stamps. Did
you check with your facilities people to see if such a thing could be
arranged at your site?

I don't expect the USPS to cash checks for me, so I can't expect the DCU
to sell me stamps. :^) Sorry I couldn't be more supportive of your concerns.

-Jack

    Re: .1
    
    It seems to be the policy of the USPS to encourage non Post Office
    outlets for their stamps. If Donelan's (a very local supermarket - 4
    stores altogether) can see fit to do it, why can't DCU?
    
    And my main concern is not convenience or lack thereof - if that were
    the only issue then I wouldn't bother posting this note - it's the time
    lost to Digital employees (whose normal working hours usually are
    greater then the Post Office's open hours and who therefore have to
    make the purchasing of postage stamps a lunchtime errand). Time lost to
    Digital employees usually trnslates to time lost to Digital.
    
    Dick

> Time lost to
>    Digital employees usually trnslates to time lost to Digital

I agree. Since it is Digital's problem than Digital should solve it. It's
not the DCU's problem. Sure it was a nice service (though I never used it)
but there are other things I'd like to see the tellers doing.

		Alfred

our Mailroom people sell stamps.  Maybe yours could, also.

    
    Hmmm...  I never even knew they sold stamps.
    
    While this issue is a bit trivial compared to others facing the credit
    union, it does say something about the credit union.  I would need to
    hear from DCU why they felt they had to discontinue this service before
    fully commenting but I would like to look at this from a different
    perspective, that of customer courtesy.
    
    All businesses do not make money on everything they sell.  They carry 
    some items which provide little or nothing to the bottom line.  While
    this appears to be a bad business decision if you look at it from 
    the bottom line viewpoint, it is a good business decision for other
    reasons, mainly the goodwill it generates.  The fact that you do provide
    a small item (or service) to a customer, when you really don't have to,
    says something about the way you do business and view your customers.
    
    As an example of this, I will use newspapers.  Businesses make little
    or nothing on newspapers.  They take up space and involve handling yet
    provide peanuts to the bottom line.  But businesses carry them for the
    reason above, customer courtesy & convenience and the off chance that
    the person will buy something else while they are there.
    
    As someone who has been in direct contact with customers, I can
    honestly say that many times it's the small things that customers
    appreciate and that keeps them coming back.  It's a personal touch
    which serves to differentiate your business from all the other
    competitors.  I would hate to see DCU become so bottom line oriented
    that they have to eliminate this type of personal approach.  
    
    Something to think about anyways...

    
    	Re: .0
    
    	If your time is that constrained, have you considered using the
    order form that the Post Office will gladly fill for you by mail?  I
    think there might be a surcharge, though, which would make DCU (hmmm,
    dare I say it? ;-) less costly than one competitor...
    
    	Look around for other alternatives, too.  The gas station that I
    frequent sells books of stamps at no markup.  So does the grocery store
    we use most of the time.
    
    							-craig
                                           

  You would LOVE some of the grocery stores here!  Some of them actually
sell the stamps at a DISCOUNT!  They package the stamps with advertising
and the US Post Office has approved this practice.

    
    RE: .8
    
    I see this fitting in well with the "back to basics" approach.  I
    believe one of the "basics" of good business is customer satisfaction
    and service.  I have a hard time believing that this little
    customer courtesy (that was not very widely publicized) was costing
    DCU little if actual money, yet would generate much good will on the
    part of the membership.
    
    I would define "Back to basics" as straightening out their priorities
    when it came to real programs, that had very real costs.  Establish the
    top three (or whatever number) priorities and achieve them.  Then pursue 
    other programs that do not detract from those priorities and still fit
    in with the credit union.
    
    Not everything needs to have $$ payback to be "profitable" to a
    business.  Intangibles can be very important too and should not be
    ignored.
    
    Again, just a different approach to ponder.  Your mileage may vary.

    "Stamps by Mail" from the post office does not cost anything extra. 
    Just pick up the forms at your local branch.  When you need stamps,
    fill in the blanks, enclose your check, and put it in your mailbox.
    It generally takes 2 - 5 days.
    
    There is another service that lets you order by phone and charge it to
    your credit card.  This service does have a fee and a minimum purchase.
    
    One problem that the Post Office has to deal with is auditing.  Without
    it, postage stamps can be stolen by employees.  I wonder if the credit
    union had to deal with similar procedures when it sold stamps?

    re: .10
    
    Regarding auditing and selling stamps: Anytime something like stamps or
    tickets are sold, a separate fund must be maintained, reconciled, and
    replenished. It's almost as much work to sell stamps as it is to sell
    traveler's checks, and stamps generate no revenue to offset the cost of
    handling.
    
    Petty Cash used to sell stamps here in MKO. Upper management determined 
    that that was not a service that Petty Cash should provide. The DCU 
    started selling stamps just as a large stamp vending machine was
    installed in the MKO1 lobby across from the security desk. The machine 
    solved everyone's problems, and DCU could discontinue the service with 
    no pain to the customers. 

    I never knew DCU sold stamps either.  Employee Services here in HLO
    used to, but recently discontinued the process and refers employees to
    the customer service desk at Shaw's down the road.
    
    In departments I've worked in both at DEC and elsewhere, time "lost to
    the employee" was time made up to the employer.

>    In departments I've worked in both at DEC and elsewhere, time "lost to
>    the employee" was time made up to the employer.

	My my my, what an interesting idea! Use personal time to run personal
	errands. :-)

			Alfred

    
    The stamps themselves are a red herring.  The issue is that
    it was discontinued because it was "too expensive".  Again,
    evidence that they really don't understand.  As Phil pointed
    out what seem like small things buy big gains in goodwill.
    I'm not arguing for the stamps.  I'm arguing for customer 
    satisfaction as DCU's first priority.  It seems clear that
    it has been and remains making money.
    
    Steve
    

	Ok, so if customer satisfaction is _the_ criteria for DCU regardless
of whether what they are offering, or are being asked to offer, has anything
to do with banking, which DCU employee do I give my grocery shopping list to?
:-)

								-craig

	This is really one of those judgment calls that DCU has
	to make knowing they won't satisfy everyone. A good argument
	can be made for both sides on this one. I hope folks realize
	that and don't crucify the DCU if they decide on the "wrong"
	side.

					Tom_K

	This discussion is all very well and interesting, but doesn't anyone
  notice that noone seemed to know that they were selling stamps?  A curtesy
  service should be advertised so that people did know.  The idea is to bring
  people in so they will buy other things from them.  No service is any good
  if noone knows about it so that noone uses it.  My guess is that it was
  discontinued because noone was using it and as someone else pointed out you
  need to keep separate track of sales and money coming in.


		Danny

    
    Re: .15
    
    >Ok, so if customer satisfaction is _the_ criteria for DCU regardless
    >of whether what they are offering, or are being asked to offer, has
    >anything to do with banking, which DCU employee do I give my grocery
    >shopping list to?
    
    The stamp story is only important as evidence of their attitude i.e.
    DCU decides what is important and who they are and not us.
    
    Whether we are talking about stamps or car loans, their business should
    focus on satisfying our needs, not making money from us because they
    ARE us.
    
    This story is just evidence that they still haven't gotten it.
    
    Steve
    
    

    
    	Re: .18
    
    	Ok, so it is reasonable for me to give someone at DCU my grocery
    shopping list since it would make me a very happy customer?  No, that's
    not reasonable.  DCU should, of course, do whatever it takes to have
    satisfied customers, but I think it is fully proper for them to stick to
    the areas encompassed by their business.  They shouldn't be doing my
    grocery shopping nor should they be playing post office when they have
    a hard enough time getting _banking_ done right.  (But I won't object
    if they decide to wash my car when I stop at a facility to visit the
    DCU branch.  Nah, scratch that, for a truly satisfied customer they
    should wash my car whether or not I'm going to visit the branch... :-)
    
    							-craig
                                                                          

    
    Re: .18
    
    Craig, I think I haven't made my point clear.  The attitude they
    used in handling the stamps issue is likely the SAME one they use
    in handling things which we all would agree fall within the realm
    of things appropriate for a credit union to do.  The stamps story
    is simply an example of this.  We should work hard to stamp out that
    attitude, because unless we do they won't get the banking stuff right
    either.
    
    Steve
    

    As the writer of .0, I've seen a few replies saying how easy it was to
    order stamps by mail, it's just a short run down the street by the
    deli, etc. 
    
    Maybe I misworded the title of the note, but my point is that it costs
    Digital money, not me personal inconvenience, not to have the stamps
    just down the hall. 
    
    Please keep that in mind.
    
    Dick

>    Maybe I misworded the title of the note, but my point is that it costs
>    Digital money, not me personal inconvenience, not to have the stamps
>    just down the hall. 
 
	Why does it cost Digital money? Are you using the companies time
	to get stamps for personal use?

				Alfred 

       The Post Office is open Sat. morning.
       Many POs have stamp machines in their lobby. The lobbies open at 6:30
    AM and close at 5:30 PM.
       Many retail stores (2 drug stores in my town, maybe more) sell
    stamps as well as other postal services.
       I didn't even know the DCU sold stamps yet I NEVER had to take time
    off from work to buy any.
                                              Denny
       

    re .24
    The DCU selling stamps was supposed to be a convenience provided to its
    members.  The fact that you never utilized this convenience does not
    preclude the fact that those of us who are miles from *anything* *are*
    inconvenienced by this unilateral decision.
    
    I, for one, am inconvenienced.  And, IMHO, this is just another example
    of the DCU cutting off its nose to spite its face.
    

    
    RE: .25
    
    >I, for one, am inconvenienced.  And, IMHO, this is just another example
    >of the DCU cutting off its nose to spite its face.
    
    Exactly my impression.  It seems like a very petty issue.  It strikes
    me as the type of thing that people sometimes do when they are arguing
    simply to hurt the other person.  And then regret it.
    
    But then again it does fit in with their petty $.25 charge for us to 
    receive a copy of a one page report indicating the financial condition 
    of OUR credit union.  Such shabby treatment from an institution which
    we own should not be tolerated.  If this attitude appears in these
    small issues, you cab be sure it appears elsewhere in the credit union
    operation.  I hope it all changes very shortly after the current election.  
    I fear for DCU's future if it does not.
    

    There was a hue and cry to can "toaster insurance"
    
    There was much questioning over services like PayMate and car finding
    services.
    
    I can't believe something like stamps is causing this much of an uproar
    especially given that it is not as inconvenient as some people might
    think to get stamps.

    Re: .-1

    I don't understand it either.  The only thing I can think of is that it
    is an issue that everybody can understand.  Or perhaps it is like
    discussions of budget items: the amount of time spent discussing a
    budget item is inversely proportional to the cost of the item.

    
    RE: .27
    
    Those programs cost real money.  I can't see carrying stamps would be a
    huge expense especially since the branches would have to keep some on
    hand for their own use.
    
    Yes, I would agree this a very small issue in the grand scheme of
    things.  But then again, it was only a couple dollar checking fee that
    motivated many to leave DCU.  It's usually the small things that are
    the proverbial last straw.

    re .27, .28
    
    The hue and cry wasn't over the discontinuation of the stamp service. 
    My particular minor conflaguration was over your attitude.  You seem to
    feel that since it is easy for you to go get stamps, it shouldn't
    inconvenience anyone.
    
    Some of us don't work in PKO or other locals near a post office.  It
    *is* inconvenient and time consuming to have to go out for stamps
    during lunch.
    
    'nuff said.

    
    Re: .27
    
    For, I am hopeful, the last time: THE STAMPS ARE NOT THE POINT!
    
    As was written in .26:
    
    	... Such shabby treatment from an institution which we own
        should not be tolerated.  If this attitude appears in these
        small issues, you can be sure it appears elsewhere in the
        credit union operation.  
    
    It is the REASON they discontinued selling the stamps, that they
    just stopped and told no one, and what that means as evidence that
    the DCU is contemptuous of its members that is important about it.
    
    DO YOU SEE WHAT THE HUE AND CRY IS ABOUT NOW?
    
    Steve
    
    

  >DO YOU SEE WHAT THE HUE AND CRY IS ABOUT NOW?

I don't know if he does, but I do.

Some people are very upset because a little known and little
used service was quietly discontinued that benefited very
few and cost little to maintain.  This supposedly indicates
that DCU is somehow not responsive to our needs in other
areas.

I happen to agree with you that DCU has sometimes not been
responsive in other areas.  I totally disagree with the
furor that you and others would like to make out of this 
non-issue.

Collis Jackson

    
    Re: .32
    
    >I happen to agree with you that DCU has sometimes not been
    >responsive in other areas.  I totally disagree with the
    >furor that you and others would like to make out of this 
    >non-issue.
    
    Telling someone that the discontinuing of the stamps is a "non-issue"
    because it isn't a service that YOU think is important is precisely
    the kind of behavior that will benefit the BoD and not us.  You can
    always choose not to comment and leave it at that.
    
    If we want the DCU to become more responsive then we have to be
    willing to insist that all points of view are taken seriously and
    not just our own.  Otherwise, we can each, by ourselves, contend
    individually with the DCU to get our grievances addressed.
    
    Steve
    
    

Re:  470.33

  >Telling someone that the discontinuing of the stamps is a "non-issue"
  >because it isn't a service that YOU think is important is precisely
  >the kind of behavior that will benefit the BoD and not us.  

Perhaps I'm not into the we vs. them mindset.  Perhaps I think
each issue should be considered individually.  Perhaps (just perhaps)
it isn't a service that is important for DCU to be providing.

  >Otherwise, we can each, by ourselves, contend individually with 
  >the DCU to get our grievances addressed.

Perhaps we should only be contending with the DCU on issues that have 
broad support and where many of us can clearly see where DCU has gone
astray.
    
Collis



















P.S.  But then again, perhaps not.  :-)

    
    Re: .34
    
    I guess, PERHAPS, that my point is that if you don't agree with
    someone, then simply don't support that point of view, but don't
    go out of your way to say that their concerns are unimportant or
    worse make a joke of it.  Don't you have anything better to do?
    
    Steve
    

    
    OK, I think it best we agree to disagree on this one guys.  Looks like
    neither is going to be convinced otherwise.
    

Steve,

On a serious note, I disagree with you about the purpose of discussing
an issue such as this in notes.  Yes, I disagree with you about
the importance of postage stamps and DCU.  But, in my mind, that does
not mean that I should not say anything.  My view is exactly that
this issue *is* unimportant.  That is the area of disagreement -
you think it is important and I think it is unimportant.  I don't
with to be insensitive to you or others that believe as you do;
however I also want to be able to express what I believe.

Collis 

.11>> Regarding auditing and selling stamps: Anytime something like stamps or
.11>> tickets are sold, a separate fund must be maintained, reconciled, and
.11>> replenished. It's almost as much work to sell stamps as it is to sell
.11>> traveler's checks, and stamps generate no revenue to offset the cost of
.11>> handling.

For those who want DCU to sell stamps, how would you feel about their charging
a fee to cover their legitimate costs?

P.S. I have noticed that a few have assumed that the cost to DCU was minimal.
They may be right or wrong - someone needs to obtain from DCU how much it DID
cost them.  I don't believe anyone should complain about the lack of this ser-
vice due to the minimal cost until they KNOW that it WAS a minimal cost.

    
    Great baked ham in TTB today.  Carol (real name withheld to prevent chef
    recruiting) does it again...
    
    
    RE: .38
    
    I agree.  If DCU's cost of providing this service is substantial or it
    is interfering with a teller's ability to service members transactions
    then it should dropped.  If on the other hand, the DCU branches must
    keep a supply of stamps for their own use and must be accounted for
    anyways, it would seem to be overhead that is already in place and
    would remain in place whether or not DCU sold stamps to members.  Did
    DCU ever tell any of the people who used this little known service why
    they were stopping it?
    
    I would like to offer up a solution.  If there is not stamp machine on
    the site, then DCU could contact the U.S. Post Office to see if they
    could have one installed in the branch.  This would seem to address
    everybodys concern.  Now where is that DCU suggestion box???

    .all
    
    I think the issue here is getting a bit clouded.  While I find the fact
    that DCU is no longer selling stamps somewhat inconvenient, it is not
    that big a problem.  
    
    activate asbestos:
    
    What I do take issue with is the attitude of "Well, it isn't a problem
    for me, therefore, it isn't a problem for anyone thereby making this a
    non-issue."
    
    engage halon:

    
    Re: .40
    
    Thank you.  That has been my point from the beginning.
    
    Steve
    

  I think most of us agree that, with enough advance planning, anyone who needs
a supply of stamps at work can have one. The problem, as I see it, is what if
you need a stamp right away and you didn't have the foresight to get some in
advance, OR if you forgot to buy new stamps when postage rates went up, OR
you can't find the stamps you have in your desk.
  Every Digital plant should have some way for employees to buy stamps. On-site
employee disbursement (aka petty cash) offices will soon be history, so the
issue of whether one can get stamps from Petty Cash will be moot. Some plants
have stamp machines and some don't. Are there any plants that have DCU offices
but don't have any other means of dispensing stamps? Probably not, but I agree
with Phil G. that there is a courtesy issue here.

    re -.1
    
    US Customer Support Center/Southern Area Headquarters, Atlanta.

    RE: .42
    
    DCO (Landover MD) has a DCU office, but if there is a way of buying
    stamps on-site, I don't know about it (and, yes, I have asked).
    
    -- Russ