Conference 7.286::dcu

    I DEFINITELY agree with John!  As it is now, I believe that DCU is not
    always convenient to people who work 7am - 4pm. And now they will be
    closed for LUNCH?!  In regard to DCU's recent "closure for LUNCH"
    announcement, the following is an excerpt: 
 
	Closing for only one hour at lunch time will allow us to have a
	full teller staff during Digital's peak lunch hours without
	incurring the expense of additional personnel.  Space limits
	the number of windows of operation but we feel the adjusted
	hours will allow us to keep all windows open during peak periods.

    In response to the above statement describing DCU's intent with their
    new policey, I feel that John Sander's commentary exactly expresses my
    sentiments on this issue as follows:
     
        I have never [EVER] been to the DCU when all 4 windows have been open 
	with the current staff they have because someone is always updating
	the ATM.  And as far as them accommodating Digital at our peak lunch 
        hour, just who's lunch hour is she talking about ?????

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    ADDITIONALLY, I think that this might be a good time to re-open the
    "clearing checks" issue that Jeff Robbins brought up several weeks ago
    (re: the unnecessary holding of checks for "clearing").  I feel that if
    you look at both of these issues together, you begin to get the sense
    of an unfortunate trend whereby DCU may be inexorably going from being
    a credit union serving DEC employee needs to becoming a purely
    self-serving, money-making institution (read this as "bank")! 
    
    Is this the original intent of why DCU was founded???

    ====================================================================
    Below is a copy of Jeff Robbins' original MAIL message re: the
    unnecessary holding of checks for "clearing":
    
From:	CSC32::MOLSON::CSC32::ROBBINS "An optimist is someone who tells you to cheer up when things are going his way  17-Oct-1988 1038" 17-OCT-1988 11:46
To:	@SOCIAL
Subj:	Information about DCU's holding of checks

I've discovered some information that I thought I would pass along.
 
When I went to deposit a check at DCU they told me they wouldn't
cash or deposit it without holding it for 3 days. I've deposited many
checks before and they never held them if they were under $500.
When a check is held, no money may be withdrawn against it, and no checks
will be cleared against it. When I asked what was going on they told me that
new federal regulations REQUIRED them to do this.  I got a bit irrate and
talked with supervisors and was again told that the new check clearing
regulations REQUIRED them to hold all checks over $100 for a minumum of 3
days, regardless of the balance in your account.
 
Well... to make a long story shorter... I called DCU's main office
and got the same story, so I called the Federal Reserve Board and got a
copy of the regulation. It DOES NOT REQUIRE any minimum holding period.  It
specifies a maximum holding period but leaves to each financial
institution's discretion whether checks will be held or not.  After calling
DCU President's Office and talking with the person who wrote the DCU
policy, she finally admitted to me that it was a POLICY of DCU and not a
regulation. She said that they decided to implement this new policy and
in-effect blame it on new federal regulations.  This policy protects DCU
at the expense of their customer's and was in no way required by the
governement.
 
Just thought I'd pass this along so that if they give you the same
"line" you'll know that they're full-of-it and if enough folks
make noise or choose to bank elsewhere, perhaps DCU will get the
message that unwarrented holding of local checks is not acceptable.
 
- Jeff

    
    Even thought it might be difficult, can you please stick to the
    topic at hand. I know we haven't consistently done that , but there
    is already another topic regarding the federal regulations and check
    hold policy.
    
    Regards,
    
    Your moderator.
    

    I half-expected the letter to blame Regulation CC for the new lunch
    hour policy.....

    Given the hours that they have picked to close I believe that it
    will help speed up service at lunch time. From 11:00 to 12:30 seem 
    to be the peak hours, if they can have a full staff of tellers (I'll
    even settle for three tellers) during this time I think it has to help. 

    Currently we are lucky to have two windows staffed during this time.
    For once they seem to have a GOOD idea.
    
    Just my opinion,
    
    Jim

	New hours of operation will be:

				Open	7:30AM
				Close	12:45PM

				Reopen	1:45PM
				Close	3:30PM

    
    
    	Once again my curiosity is aroused.  What time do the MAJORITY
of people in CX0 go to lunch????????????

	Around here lunch time is between 11:30 and 12:30.  Is CX0 so big
that if you leave your area at 12:30 you can't make the Credit Union?

	I'm not a backer of DCU(in fact will probably have to get out because
of the check holding policy) but this note is really a waste of time.  If
the hours that they have set up are inconvenient for the MAJORITY of CX0 then
this should be addressed to the CX0 Credit Union manager.  From the way I
read the memo, they are trying to cut down on long lines during lunch, by
having all of there employees working when the MAJORITY of the people go
to lunch.

	If these hours are only inconvenient to you, then you have just used
this mediam as a crying towel.  If it is inconvenient to the MAJORITY then
lets have at them.


Leo

P.S.  I would be more upset with the fact that they are closing at 3:30 everyday
      since I have to travel to get to the nearest DCU.

    I just spoke with Ken Masson, Cust. Sat. person at DCU Hq.  He
    indicated that he was unaware of the aforementioned memo.  
    
    He would like any and all members who have concerns regarding this
    matter to contact him and discuss, in an objective manner, their
    feelings about the change in hours (as well as any other concerns
    you might have).  He did, at least on the phone, seem receptive
    to my concerns about this change.
    
    He can be reached at DTN 223-6735 or via mail at PKO5 (DCU address).
    Again, be objective in your comments and maybe we will get some
    positive response.
    
    

    I don't know if this is coincidental or if it represents a shift
    in DCU's thinking, but the DCU office in the Burlington plant will
    also be closed for lunch beginning next week.
    
    Larry

	Yes, the official memo said that it was going to be standard
	at all DCU branches.

Chuck

    Sorry, we shut down our business at lunch hour. What nonsense! What
    bank would ever try to get away with that? And the DCU is supposed
    to be *our* credit union?
    
    Oh well. What can you do?
    
    -Glenn-

        >   Sorry, we shut down our business at lunch hour. <
    
    THAT IS NOT WHAT THE MEMO SAID.
    	
    	It said they would be closing for a one hour lunch in order to
    be fully staffed during DIGITAL'S lunch hour.  I haven't seen anybody
    put in their lunch times in here yet.  Could it be that if they
    did they wouldn't be able to b***h.
    
    	  It's no wonder DCU doesn't pay attention to the important
    stuff(check holding) when this kind of petty stuff keeps comming
    up, and no one proves that they are closing during assigned DIGITAL
    lunch hours.
    
    	If DCU wants to have more employees working during my lunch
    hour, so I can get in and out faster, then let them close and eat
    a late lunch.  They are people.

    Re: .10
    
.0> Closing for only one hour at lunch time will allow ...
    
.0> All new brnaches of the credit union are establishing hours
.0> that allow them to close for one hour at lunch time
    
    Their words, not mine. If a business can't keep the needed amount
    of people to get their job done, then they shouldn't be in business.
    
    I repeat. This is nonsense.
    
    -Glenn-

    
    re: .11
    
    Reading the words says that they are closing at lunch time, however
    how many of you take your lunch during the time that they have posted
    as THIER lunch time 12:45 to 1:45??
    
    						JV

    Lunch hours run 'till 1pm at all sites in the 3M area that I have
    been to (often-times, even later). The people I work with don't
    punch clocks and tend to have lunch at different times each day.
    I would be hard pressed to define "lunch hour" for the typical DEC
    WC4 employee; the closest would be sometime between 10:30am and
    2:30 pm.
    
    I really don't care what lunch hour they are talking about. I maintain
    that it is rediculous for a business like the DCU to close up the
    windows for an hour in the middle of the day!
    
    -Glenn-

re: .14 

>>    been to (often-times, even later). The people I work with don't
>>    punch clocks and tend to have lunch at different times each day.

What about the people you don't work with, who have a more rigid lunch time?

And if you tend to take lunch at different times each day, let me ask you this
"In the past year, how many times have you gone to a TELLER at DCU between
12:45 and 1:45?" And if you knew that the DCU office was going to be closed
for an hour, couldn't you plan for it?

It seems that you're only interested in what's best for one person, YOU.
If a closing-for-lunch makes it faster for the majority of the DCU members
to do their banking, then DCU should do it. I'm not overjoyed over the closing,
but if this means standing in line for 5 minutes instead of 15, I can accept
the trade-off.  If the closing-for-lunch doesn't do what it's designed to,
then start b*tching. Don't say 'I don't like it, it won't work' before
giving it a chance.

 - John

.15> It seems that you're only interested in what's best for one person, YOU.
     
    I never expressed anything of the sort.
    
    If the DCU doesn't have enough people to handle the business, they
    should hire more tellers. And get more space if they need it.
    
    As a matter of fact, I personnally don't care about the DCU's hours
    because I work off-site and only use a teller once ever couple of
    months. The DCU should be open normal business hours. Period. They are
    not being professional, in my opinion, if they close their doors for an
    hour in the middle of the day. You should try and think of the people
    who *do* punch clocks and aren't DEC employees (like my sister) that
    usually can only get to a teller during lunch hour. If the DCU keeps
    up with this policy, they will alienate a lot of non-DEC members.
    
    -Glenn-

re .16     (and .14, .11, .9)
    
>				   You should try and think of the people
>    who *do* punch clocks and aren't DEC employees (like my sister) that
>    usually can only get to a teller during lunch hour.

 That's what I said (or at least meant to say).  I don't think that 
 the majority of people who have to punch time clocks take their entire
 lunch hour between quarter of one and quarter of two, which is when the 
 DCU office is closed. It also opens at 7:30. Would it be possible for your
 sister to get to a DCU office when before she starts work?

>    If the DCU doesn't have enough people to handle the business, they
>    should hire more tellers. And get more space if they need it.

  And if, for whatever reason, they can't get more resources, what
  should they do?  Close up shop? Or start imposing more fees to get
  the money needed to get more tellers/space? Would this make them more
  professional?? 
 
>    As a matter of fact, I personnally don't care about the DCU's hours

  If you don't care about the DCU's hours of operation, why are you 
  chastising DCU? 

Let me get your position straight. From what's in .9, .11, .14, and .16,
and correct me if I'm wrong, you're stating
"If DCU can't be open during normal business hours, it should be abolished."
(Exactly what are normal business hours?)
There are Post Offices which close for an hour during the middle of the 
day. Newton Upper Falls, MA is one example. Does this mean that, for this
reason alone, the U.S. Postal Service is amature and shouldn't be in 
business?

One possible outcome:  Would anyone be surprised if DCU was both 
closed during that hour AND crowded during the previous hour?  I'd be 
curious to see how 'fully' staffed the branch is between 11:45 and 
12:45.

.17> -< what's your problem? >-
    
    This new DCU policy.
    
    This medium isn't always the best when things get to this point
    but I'll try one last time.
    
.17> And if, for whatever reason, they can't get more resources, what
.17> should they do?  Close up shop? Or start imposing more fees to get
.17> the money needed to get more tellers/space? Would this make them more
.17> professional?? 
     
    Yes, spending more money to service the people they are explicitly in
    business for would make them more professional, in my opinion
    (especially since they are a non-profit organization). And I don't
    think you can argue that the DCU can't afford to hire more tellers
    and/or obtain more space. 
    
.17> If you don't care about the DCU's hours of operation, why are you 
.17> chastising DCU? 
    
    Because I don't use a particular service doesn't mean I can't have an
    opinion about it or express how I feel it might affect other people. 
    
.17>Let me get your position straight. From what's in .9, .11, .14, and .16,
.17>and correct me if I'm wrong, you're stating
.17>"If DCU can't be open during normal business hours, it should be abolished."
    
    That quote isn't from me and that's not what I said or implied. My
    comment (that I've said a few times now, but I'll try it yet another
    way) is that it is crazy for an instituion like a credit union to close
    up their doors during a random hour of the day.

.17>(Exactly what are normal business hours?)
    
    Normal business hours are those hours that businesses are normally
    open! Seriously, if I had to pin it down, I'd say "9 to 5". "Normal
    business hours" is just a common expression. And I would say that
    anybody using that expression would certainly assume that the hours
    around the hour of noon are business hours. 
    
.17>There are Post Offices which close for an hour during the middle of the 
.17>day. Newton Upper Falls, MA is one example. Does this mean that, for this
.17>reason alone, the U.S. Postal Service is amature and shouldn't be in 
.17>business?
    
    I was wondering when someone would make an analogy like that. You
    are right, some places close at odd hours. Our local town hall is
    like this too. But I don't agree that odd hours like this belong
    in a credit union or other type of financial institution. I feel
    people should always have access to their money and other financial
    services during normal business hours during all business days.
    
    And I'm not quite sure why you think that because I criticized the new
    DCU hours that I therefore feel that the DCU should be "abolished" or
    "shouldn't be in business". I never made nor intended such a
    generalization. 
    
    Well, that was fun. I'll shut up now!
    
    -Glenn-

> There are Post Offices which close for an hour during the middle of the 
> day. Newton Upper Falls, MA is one example. Does this mean that, for this
> reason alone, the U.S. Postal Service is amature and shouldn't be in 
> business?

    Exactly.  I've gone to a post office in the middle of the day and
    found it closed - boy was I p*ssed!  Couldn't believe they could
    close one of these in the middle of the day... 
    
    
    - Chris
    
    
    

>    the trade-off.  If the closing-for-lunch doesn't do what it's designed to,
>then start b*tching. Don't say 'I don't like it, it won't work' before
>giving it a chance.
 
    Should I crash my car into a wall to find out if I will not like
    it?  Some things a person can look at and realize that it will affect
    them.
    
    The real question is how many people eat lunch while in line at
    DCU?  Maybe if they have lunch trays with seats!
    
    	- mark

I don't think that DCU's closing for an hour will really affect me that
much, although a few days ago I needed to go there and realized they were
closed, so I rearranged my schedule to go later.  But, that's not the point.

As I see it, DCU is again being unresponsive to their customers and acting
in what I feel is an unprofessional manner.  Who would want to use a local
bank that closed for an hour during the day, closed for 2 weeks at
Christmas (DCU did that a year or so ago), has unreasonable check hold
policies, lies to it's customers, closes it's ATM for balancing during the
"peak" lunch-time, has "computer" problems often enough that I've been in a
situation where I couldn't get my money out when I needed it, and whose
tellers have a generally rotten attitude about customer service?  It's a
matter of being competitive or not. I guess DCU figures they've got a
captive audience and don't need to worry about things like this. 

It also seems to me that if DCU is having trouble handling the crowds
during "peak" times, they should look into different scheduling of their
tellers, hiring new ones, temporaries, etc.  The same stuff a "regular"
bank would have to do.  I don't think local banks consider closing in mid-day
an option.  In addition, I've never been to the credit union and actually
seen all the teller windows open.  There's usually a line of customers
and one or more tellers "closed" while they stand there and do other
things (adding up checks, balancing, etc.)  Perhaps this work could be
scheduled outside these times?

- Jeff

re Note 140.22 by YUCATN::ROBBINS:

> The same stuff a "regular"
> bank would have to do.  I don't think local banks consider closing in mid-day
> an option.  

Even the regular banks around here (Mass.) are shortening their hours.  BayBank
just greatly restricted their hours on some days (closing at noon on one or two
days).  Of course, BayBank has scads of automated teller machines so the
problem isn't severe for regular transactions.


> In addition, I've never been to the credit union and actually
> seen all the teller windows open.  

I was not amused when, about five years ago, the Marlboro (MR1) branch closed
for a day or two in order to add a third teller window.  Yet after that I never
saw all three windows open at once (up until I left MR about four years ago).

Bob

    What percentage of the DCU members are within a day's ride of their
    nearest branch office? 
            
    Are there any branches outside New England and Colorado Springs? 
    
    Are there DCU ATMs in any facilities outside New England and Colorado
    Springs? 
    
    If they are closed from 12:45 to 13:45, then I shouldn't start out
    between 07:45 and 08:45 or I'll have to waste some time waiting for
    them to open.
    
    					Bob Cleary 

    Just thought that I would drop an after implementation note, went
    down at lunchtime for the first time on the 4th. All teller positions
    were staffed, the usual stackup of 12-15 people waiting was gone,
    total time in and out...about five minutes.
    
    Looks like this one at least was a good idea.
    
    Jim

I haven't been there at lunch, but in the afternoon (which I would consider
also a peak time), there is almost always a line and rarely ever are all
the teller windows open.  There's usually at least one teller talking on
the phone or doing other things while a line of people stretches out to
or past the door.  I would agree it was working if when DCU was open it
was entirely open, but I've yet to see any change other than they now
close for an hour.

- Jeff

    They are entitled to a lunch too you know...

>    They are entitled to a lunch too you know...

I agree.  I'm not trying to take their lunch away, I'm just trying to
point out that by closing (they got lunch before without closing), the
service has not improved (my opinion).  So why do it?  It appears to me
that I get the same service I got before, but now I've got less hours.

BTW - My local bank doesn't close for lunch.....Neither do any other
      businesses I deal with.

-jeff

    Sorry about that I misunderstood your comment.  I didn't know that
    they actually closed their doors for lunch...
    
    

    DCu here  in NIO (Salem NH) has just posted a notice that they too will
    be closing for lunch from 12:45 to 1:45.
    
    Claude
    

    Same thing here at APO. I made the comment to one of the tellers
    that having them closed for an hour in the middle of the day is
    not giving me better service as was stated in the memo. She said
    that they need lunch, too. I told her I didn't have a problem with
    them having lunch, and I really don't have a major problem with
    them closing for an hour, but don't tell me that it's providing
    me with better service! That's an insult.
    

    This also has happened at ZKO (Nashua, NH).  I talked to Mary Madden
    about it and she says she has gotten favorable response from people!
    I doubt they have gotten favorable response.  She reminded me of a good
    PR person.  Call and cry on my shoulder, but don't make me change any
    thing.
    
    I mentioned to hear that lines are now LONGER than ever.  Also other
    people I have talked to think the lines are longer.
    
    She gave the excuse that DCU cannot keep just one person working while
    the others are gone.  I wondered how they did it before.
    
    I also mentioned various other complaints.  In the end she said she
    WANTS to hear from all of us who have problems.  Give her a call.  Let
    her know how you feel good or bad about DCU.  The more she hears, the
    better chance for change.
    
    	Mary Madden
    	DTN 223-6735
    
    
    	- mark

re.32
>    I talked to Mary Madden about it and she says she has gotten favorable
>    response from people!

    I'm sure she has, she's probably received a lot of favorable calls from
    the tellers.  8-)

    Don

    
    
    	FYI - Stow DCU has a sign posted stating they will
              be closed 12:45-1:45 starting May 15.
    
    
    

    
    So it appears DCU is pulling another one of their "Do it, then notify
    the members." stunts.  Why do they bother sending out surveys asking
    how their services are when they can't even provide them for an
    entire business day?  The day this comes to MR is the day I'll open
    an account elsewhere and use DCU for small cash withdrawals.  Another
    institution more in tune with it's customers will get the benefit
    of my other moneys.  If this kind of BS continues, I may not wait.
    

The DCU here in Northboro started closing from 12:45 to 1:45 
sometime in February.   They did some advertising (signs in the 
branch office and a notice on LIVEWIRE).  However, the lead time 
for the notice seemed incredibly short.  So far I haven't seen 
more tellers than there used to be on duty at other times.  I 
also haven't noticed long lines either, but that may be because 
I try to time my visits during non-peak hours.  This definitely 
looks like a trend.

Maryellen

    Westminster DCU also will also be closing for lunch, soon..
    
    -Jake-

    FWIW, Landover MD (DCO) has been closed for lunch (1:00 - 2:00 PM)
    for some time.
    
    I've yet to hear any hardcore complaints about this policy from
    the folks around here.  Maybe it's just a question of setting
    expectations, but most people seem to be able to schedule banking
    time with little problem (so far as I can tell).  I can't recall
    anyone here becoming irate with the schedule (although I remember
    someone being somewhat surprised by it).
    
    -- Russ

    RE .38
    
>	Maybe it's just a question of setting expectations, ...
    
    And nobody has ever accused DCU of setting our expectations too
    high!  Maybe they'll start closing for an afternoon siesta too?
    Why not??

    TAY2 Littleton branch opened today; it is closed for lunch 12:45
    to 1:45.

    
      LKG (Littleton) also closes for lunch between 12:45 and 1:45.
    Twice I have showed up at 12:40 and the doors were locked. Even
    their clock on the wall showed the time as 12:40. When I knocked
    on the door they completly ignored me.
    
       What gives???
                                      Bill

Well, although nobody has replied in the last year, the policy is
still annoying. Personally, I rather not see them close and have
staggerred lunch hours. But, barring that, I'd prefer a 1pm-2pm
lunch-break vs. 12:45-1:45.  I eat lunch from about 11:45 to about
12:30; so, I might *just* make it over to NRO before they close.

There are three convenient times to visit a bank/credit-union:

a)	before work (7:30 or 8am is pretty good starting time; but,
	I never seem to visit then)
b)	during a lunch hour (but *after* eating lunch) - thus,
	closing for an hour right after I finish lunch is most
	inconvenient
c)	after work (3:30 or 4pm makes this not an option)

Since the branch locations and hours aren't very convenient and there
are few if any free DCU ATMs nearby, I plan to open a BayBank account
(but I'm not sure I'll close my DCU account; so, they may never get
the message).

Chuck

p.s.	thanks for listening to *my* opinions/complaints;
	I just got locked out of the DCU branch in NRO at 3:55
	when they are supposed to wait until 4pm to close up.

    Re .42:
    
>   Well, although nobody has replied in the last year, the policy is still
>   annoying.
    
    I've heard a fair amount of (unsolicited) grumbling among my co-workers
    about this over the past year.  Obviously, the DCU notes file just
    represents the tip of the iceberg.
    
>   Personally, I rather not see them close and have staggerred lunch
>   hours. But, barring that, I'd prefer a 1pm-2pm lunch-break vs.
>   12:45-1:45.
    
    I agree entirely.

    I seem to remeber a newer note, but can't find it, so I'll post this
    here.
    
    I thought that the DCU policy of branch closings for lunch was being
    revised.  If that is true, I would like to know why the AKO1 (Acton
    Nagog) branch is still closed from 12:30-1:45 daily for lunch?  Is it
    possible to stagger lunches of the staff to provide coverage?
    
    Dick.

I'd have to look back in the minutes (it's probably in the posted copy) but
I think the result was that all branches with 4 or more employees would
stay open over lunch. I asked in that same meeting that DCU also look
at having the smaller branches stay open over lunch too. I'll ask Chuck
about it again.

    
    Thanks, Paul... Still waiting for TAY2 to adopt reasonable business
    hours (ie, stay open through lunch).
    

    Paul,
    
    The AKO1 (Nagog) branch has two tellers, sometimes a third person in
    the office.  Maybe that makes it too risky to operate over lunch (one
    teller would possibly be in the branch alone)?
    
    Dick.

Yes, that's the problem with opening the smaller branches. I'll ask
Chuck to continue looking at seeing what can be done.

    I'm sorry, but I still really don't see an issue where branches are
    closed for a brief time after most DEC employees have already taken
    their lunch.

    
    Re: .49
    
    You may not see an issue, but you aren't the only customer.  Others
    obviously see it differently.
    
    Steve