Conference 7.286::dcu

re: .0

>current members who aren't near DEC sites or DCU branches.  The monthly 
>statements are the best way to reach all the members.

And for those of us who don't get monthly statements....?

Bob

Excuse me.  I forgot some people don't get monthly statements!

What do you think, then?

Network is quarterly.  I presume that means everyone gets a quarterly statement.

I wish we had a DCU Home page on the Web.  But if I suggested it, I'd have to
find someone to maintain it, probably as a volunteer, since DCU isn't exactly
on the Web.  I think we should put as much info in as many places as possible.

Elaine

Does that internet newsgroup which was started during the last election
after the 3G's were fired still exist? That would at least be a place to
post the info for interested parties. (Maybe stuff from here still
magically gets there?)

Jack, the internet newsgroup appears to still exist.

Bob

re: .4
>Jack, the internet newsgroup appears to still exist.

I haven't seen any activity in it though (in the last coupla months).

- paul

RE: Note 915.5 by ARCANA::CONNELLY

>I haven't seen any activity in it though (in the last coupla months).

Stuff has been actively posted in it...  It only stays around for
about 1 week...  All minutes and news releases are posted in there.

	- mark

Though on some news servers the articles stay around longer...

(90 days on nntpd.lkg.dec.com)

I just noticed over the last couple weekends that DCU savings rates 
(CD's, money market, checking etc) are now listed in the business section 
of the Worcester Telegram on Sundays.

The rates from many of the other Central Mass. banks are posted in the 
same place, so this makes it easy to compare DCU with the local competition. 

- Ganesh.

RE: Note 915.8 by SUBSYS::SUNDARESAN

>I just noticed over the last couple weekends that DCU savings rates 
>(CD's, money market, checking etc) are now listed in the business section 
>of the Worcester Telegram on Sundays.

and how do they stack up against the competition?

	- mark

Except for a couple of money market accounts (Merrill Lynch, Salisbury Investments) DCU beats all
listed in all categories.  There are 16 instituions listed, mostly banks, one other credit union 
(Leominster).


Rich

            <<< Note 915.10 by STARCH::brevet.shr.dec.com::WHALEN >>>

Except for a couple of money market accounts (Merrill Lynch, Salisbury 
Investments) DCU beats all listed in all categories.  There are 16 
instituions listed, mostly banks, one other credit union (Leominster).


Rich

What is the difference between "Primary Savings" and "Money Market" account
(except for the $1000 min. balance needed for Money Market)? 

Since the interest on Money Market account is more than Savings, whay shoul not
I convert my Savings account to Money Market?

Thanks.
Avinash

There's a limit of three withdrawals per month in money-market and a higher
opening minimum.  Otherwise, if you have lots of money sitting in a "Share 1"
account, by all means move it to a Money Market account - I did.

				Steve

>There's a limit of three withdrawals per month in money-market and a higher
>opening minimum.  Otherwise, if you have lots of money sitting in a "Share 1"
>account, by all means move it to a Money Market account - I did.

    "Lots of money" has to be at least $1000 or else I believe the
    difference in rates in essentially zero.
    
    To help make the decisions:
    
    The current yield on a Share-1 is 3.56%
    
    The current yields on Money market accounts are:
    
    		4.32% on balances of $1000-$9999
    		5.06% on balances of $10,000-$24,999
    		5.80% on balances of $25,00 and up
    
    Note that even if you have $9999, the yearly difference between
    having it in your share-1 and a money market works out to be only 
    around $75 per year.  For $1000 it's only about $7 difference.
    
    	db

.13>There's a limit of three withdrawals per month in money-market and a higher

    By sheer coincidence I just got off the phone with the DEFCU asking
    about their money market account to move some money from a savings
    share to a money market share to take advantange of the higher rates.
    The lady on the phone told me that two withdrawels per month are
    allowed, not three. FYI.
    
.14>    The current yields on Money market accounts are:
.14>    
.14>    		4.32% on balances of $1000-$9999
.14>    		5.06% on balances of $10,000-$24,999
.14>    		5.80% on balances of $25,00 and up
    
    The lady on the phone also told me the rates are 4.25% for $1K and
    4.94% for $10K - I didn't ask about $25K or higher rates.
    
    I suspect that the rates vary frequently.
    
    -glenn-
    
    
    -glenn-

re: .15

The rates are the same! (Huh?)  The person on the phone quoted you the Dividend
rate.  Reply .14 is using the APY (Annual Percentage Yield), which is the number
usually used to compare rates.

Also, I'm pretty sure she was wrong in saying two withdrawals are permitted per
month from money market.  You can now get checks to write directly off the money
market account, and the limit on those is three per month.

Another difference between having your money in savings vs.having it in money
market.  You can overdraft from your checking to your savings 1 (up to three
items a month).  There is currently no provision to overdraft into the money
market accounts.

Elaine

I've had a "suffix 10" account since shortly after
they were introduced.  It was initially called an
"RSVP" account; required $1000 minimum and was limited
to 3 free withdrawals per month with some nominal charge
for each withdrawal over 3.  After some time passed,
(several years, I believe), the name changed to "Money
Market".  Also somewhere along the line, there were no
more fees on moving money out of that account.  (Or
so a DCU teller informed me.)

Are we now back to having fees for more than x withdrawals
or was I mistaken, or are we talking about other-than-suffix-10
accounts?

I know, I know -- call my friendly DCU....  which I will
at some point.  But I appreciate any responses in here.

- Deb B. 

It's not a fee - you aren't allowed to make more than three withdrawals per
month (or at least that's how I understand it.)

			Steve

    I just called the DCU infocenter and they told me that you can write up
    to three checks **plus** three transfer (to other DCU accounts) per
    month.
    
    Jon

DCU has dropped its savings rates quite a bit recently (I don't know
just when this happened.)  The Primary savings rate now has an APY of 3.05%,
and checking is down to a miserly 2.02%.  The Money Market rates are still
good.  My wife was all set to switch her checking to DCU, but decided not to
when she saw that the interest rate was barely better than she is getting
from her commercial bank (which offers her unlimited free network ATM
withdrawals.)

				Steve

Re .20

Well, short rates have dropped significantly in the last 12 months,
and DCU's rates have dropped with them (as have all the other 
banks' rates).

I notice a tradeoff here - checking accounts that pay the best rates
have some limitation e.g. a minimum balance to avoid a monthly fee,
limited number of free transactions etc. For example with Baybank,
they have the best ATM network in the state, and you get unlimited
ATM access - but they pay no interest, or peanuts, on checking/savings.
One way or the other, you end up paying for flexibility and convenience.

In contrast, DCU has become reasonably generous with networked ATM 
transactions (8 free per month with direct deposit, plus those free checks), 
and still maintains better rates than the other banks. Given that we
have to pay the other banks for using their ATM networks, I think this 
is a nice compromise.

- Ganesh.
  

    re: .20
    
    What bank is offering unlimited network ATM's transactions and is there
    a minimum balance required? Also - what's the current interest rate at
    that bank?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Gim
    
    

Bank of New Hampshire.  Minimum balance is $750 or something like that.
Interest rate is 1.50%. 

I agree that overall DCU is a better deal, but not enough so to encourage
my wife to make the transition.  She keeps most of her money in DCU anyway.

				Steve

I found it most unfortunate that the flyer included with the statement I
received yesterday printed the rates as of February 12, which, at least for
the checking account, was much higher than the actual rate as of the beginning
of March.  The flyer's rate was 2.5%, vs. the 2.02% now paid.  Have short
term rates really dropped that much in the past three weeks?

				Steve

The checking account rate was dropped again to a piddling 1.50% - this is
about the same as most commercial banks nowadays.  Are we "paying" for the
"free" services with lower interest rates? 

				Steve

    one 'little' thing that I read on the internet page that I don't
    remember reading any where else, the other savings accounts don't draw
    interest if less than $100.  When did this get put in place?
    

Re: .26

The $100 minimum for interest on "other" savings accounts has been
around for a long time.  I'd forgotten about it.

Elaine

re: .25

Interest rates have dropped everywhere.  You may find if you call around
that other financial institutions are not paying more than this, even if
they used to.

The rate is not directly tied to the new free services.  It's part of the
whole mix of interest rates and services that DCU provides.  The goal is
to find the right balance of rates and services that gives the most to 
the members, but still lets us meet our expenses, etc.

In short, you can't judge DCU by just one interest rate.

I welcome your comments on this

Elaine

It used to be that DCU paid significantly better rates than commercial banks.
Now the difference is in many cases marginal, though the savings rates are
not too bad.  Local (southern NH) banks are paying 1.45% or so, but offer
services DCU doesn't such as returned checks, unlimited ATM transactions,
lower required balance for interest and monthly crediting of interest.  Where
is the DCU advantage?  .05% isn't it.  My wife, who does maintain a "money
market" account with DCU, refuses to switch her checking there because of
the above issues.

I used to not mind the relative lack of services from DCU because the interest
rate difference was worth it to me.  I have to wonder now.

I applaud the recent changes in DCU - things have gotten much better in some
ways.  But I am annoyed by what I see as a shift from straightforward better
dividend rates to a random assortment of gimmick offerings, few of which are
of any particular use to me.

Have the gimmicks gotten so expensive as to require a 36% drop in the dividend
rate (2.33 to 1.50) over the past four weeks?  Or is it that the board sees
that other banks are dropping rates, so they decide they should too?

					Steve

> Where is the DCU advantage?

Over the past five years I've come to believe that the DCU advantage is
in that you have something to say about it. Where the DEFCU is today
relative to then is testament to the impact the membership can have.
Try getting your commercial bank to pay any attantion at all to your
wishes, in any area.

If the geegaws that DCU offers aren't to your liking, then make sure
that Carlo and Co. are aware of that fact. If sufficient members share
your view, I have every confidence that it will change.

Re: .30

That's important, to be sure.  It's why DCU is my primary financial
institution.  But I do see some alarming trends.

I've tried sending mail to the DCU e-mail address, but never get a response.
I suppose I should try by telephone.

				Steve

However, when I called the info center back & the person was on another line I
left a msg. asking for a return call, and no such call came. So at least I'm
doing better that Steve ;-)

						Trace

    re .32 and no call backs, its a MAYOR problem I've talked about in
    another note.  At least I'm not taking it personal if its happening to
    others.  I *think* they need a lesson in telephone practices.  and its
    not just one person.
    ed
    

> its a MAYOR problem

    Ed, 

    Who is the MAYOR and what does he or she have to do with the DCU?

Re: Interest rates

If anything, the S&L and Banking debacles of the 80s taught me that
shopping for the highest interest rates is the same thing as shopping for
the bank that's most likely to be in bad financial shape a few years down
the road.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but DCU was paying some of its highest rates
(relative to the field) at about the same time that Mangone was doing his
thing.  I don't want a repeat of this.

As long as DCU is competitive, and as long as they're not nickel and diming
me for everything else, I'm happy.  I live about an hour's drive from the
nearest DCU branch or ATM, so free ATM and POS transactions are a big plus
for me.

Re .35

== If anything, the S&L and Banking debacles of the 80s taught me that
== shopping for the highest interest rates is the same thing as shopping for
== the bank that's most likely to be in bad financial shape a few years down
== the road.

Perversely enough, that experience taught me the opposite. FDIC, NCUA
and other Federal insurance motivates me to shop for the highest rates,
without regard to the risk of bank failure. It seems to be a game 
of heads you win a lot, tails you lose very little. I feel this is
a serious drawback of the deposit insurance system. 

== Correct me if I'm wrong, but DCU was paying some of its highest rates
== (relative to the field) at about the same time that Mangone was doing his
== thing.  I don't want a repeat of this.

I don't know about the savings rates, but in the late 80's the DCU 
car loans were certainly not attractive. I remember being asked 
for 20% down on a new car, and any car dealer could beat their 
interest rate. From my perspective, things have improved.

== As long as DCU is competitive, and as long as they're not nickel and diming
== me for everything else, I'm happy.  

I agree. I also have a "religious" issue with the for-profit banks
and their blatant greed of late, but that's another note..

- Ganesh.

    i think that some of you are overlooking the profit that is returned to
    the stockholder in the case of banks and S&L institution.
    With the other costs being relatively the same those profits should be
    returned to the "stockholders" or shareholders in the case of the
    Credit union.  This  should translate to better savings or loan rates
    or services.  
    
    I have recently heard that the DCU provides full benefits for employees
    working as little as 20 hr per week and that they provide a "bonus" of
    $1,000.00 for a 15 year service award.  
    
    How can we obtain the starting salary and max salary for tellers for
    example and how many hours does one have to work to be covered by
    benefits.  This should be compared to "our competition" i.e. the
    commercial banks.  I doubt that thye are nearly as generous
    

re .38:  Personally, I'd just as soon give up a bit of interest (especially the
trivial amount that one gets on bank savings and checking accounts) to do my
banking at an institution that treats its employees decently.

Burns

    Check out brokerage accounts... my Boston-based StockCross account
    pays very good interest (currently 4.7% for >$3k, compared to 1.5%
    for the DCU), and is considerd a Massachusetts bank come tax time.
    Caveat: you can't legally park money there with the goal of just
    earning interest; you have to make a trade every once in a while
    (but the government doesn't really define "active").  It's also
    protected by the SPIC for $500k; more than the DCU.  I park most of
    my money there and just have the minimum required balance to avoid
    fees in a checking account.
    .02 Kratz

    
    
    re .-1
    
    I got stockcross also, and if you leave I believe $5000.00 in account
    they will give you even higher interest rate, I think its currently
    6%, the catch is that you must use interest to offset commission costs 
    only.
    
    Its called a ACD account.  
    This is what I do.  I like it since you have to pay commisions thus
    might as well earn the higher interest.
    

I've been using DCU money-market account to park cash because the
money-market rates were just about as high as anywhere in the US. Now I see
that the rates are no longer as good, and have gone down about 15 basis points
in the last few months. I'm going to consider moving my cash out of DCU.

Posted today at http://www.dcu.com/onlineserv/rates.html

DCU Money Market Account and Money Market IRA
                       Rate     % APR
 $ 1,000 - $ 9,999     4.16%     4.25
 $10,000 - $24,999     4.88%     5.00
 $25,000 - $49,999     5.02%     5.15
 $50,000 and over      5.12%     5.25

Compare to what's posted on the Bank Rate Monitor: 

BEST DEALS ON MONEY MARKET ACCOUNT

Bank                    phone                 % APR

Advanta Natl Bank USA   800-441-7306 04/16/97  5.65
TeleBank                800-638-2265 04/16/97  5.60
Bluebonnet Svgs         800-343-5874 04/16/97  5.59
First Dep Natl Bank     800-821-9049 04/16/97  5.51
First Market Bank       800-404-7428 04/16/97  5.50
...

So for $1000 to $10,000 minimum, these banks beat our $50,000 min. What gives?
Who to discuss with? 

Also, because the DCU has stated that the annual bonus dividend is not policy,
that can't be considered.

    Re: .44
    
    And what do those banks charge their borrowers?
    
    What do they charge their account holders in fees?
    
     

>    And what do those banks charge their borrowers?
>    
>    What do they charge their account holders in fees?
 
I don't know about money market accounts, but I keep a 6-month CD at a NH bank
and I bear no associated costs. They pay postage both ways (as does DCU) for
all transactions and there are no charges. I suspect the same may be true
for most money market accounts with sufficient balances, say $10K+.

Since DCU is faced each year with an embarassment of profits, I would suppose
they could afford to pay the highest rates. I'm not talking about unjustifiable
come-on rates, and I think a boost of just 25 to 75 basis points would put DCU
at a true leadership level.

-- Steve

    But don't we get thes "disgusting" profits in January?   Is that
    taken into account when you figure the rate.

    I didn't mean that YOU had to pay for services moving your
    money market funds around (Probably a wise move, but time consuming)
    everytime someone has a better rate.  What I did mean wsa that everyone
    else is paying those fees so the bank(s) can offer higher rages to
    get people to move to them.   In 6 months, who knows.

    Actually, in your case, you might actually look into a money market
    fund with check cashing privs (use checks to transfer when you need to
    draw).   Over time, since their rates change daily (in come cases) you
    might pull even more interest.

    This would probably be less hassel then moving money as bank rates
    change.
    
    Bill

    Re .44
    
    I agree, the money market rate that DCU offers is 
    quite uncompetitive, especially for balances under
    10K. I also don't understand why the DCU money rate
    for balances > 10K dropped recently, in an environment
    where prevailing rates are rising, not dropping.
    
    One point to note is that for savers in MA, the deck
    is stacked in favor of the local banks and credit unions
    by the state income tax law. You pay only the 5.95% tax rate
    on local bank interest; but you pay 12% on any dividends
    from money market mutual funds or out-of-state banks.
    
    Here's an example of how this works against DCU's
    competition. For balances under 10K, the DCU rate is
    4.25%. To match the after-tax return, I figure the
    out-of-state or fund competitor has to offer about
    4.75% (assuming a Federal 28% tax bracket).
    
    But there's lots of funds, banks out there offering
    well over 4.75% for balances under 10K. I myself use 
    GE Interest Plus, which is like AAA-rated commercial
    paper, and gives me over 5.1% for any balance under 15K
    (they usually match or beat the Vanguard Prime money-market
    interest rate). I don't have to deal with hassles like 
    a 3-check limit per month, either. Moving money between 
    DCU and this account is done with a phone call, and takes 
    all of two days. I'm pretty sure the other competitors 
    are as convenient (Vanguard Prime is probably the most 
    consistently good benchmark out there for market rates 
    on short-term money).
    
    - Ganesh.

>    But don't we get thes "disgusting" profits in January?   Is that
>    taken into account when you figure the rate.

Being a shareholder owner of DCU, I find nothing disgusting about the profits
distribution. I referred to it as an embarrassment of riches because of the DCU
policy, or lack thereof, toward this kind of a payout.

But how is it possible to take the bonus distribution into account? We did not
know in advance that there would be one for last year, less how much it would
be.

That was 1996. In 1997, we have been told it is NOT DCU policy to distribute a
bonus, but rather they would prefer to increase the value of services to the
shareholders. One must suppose that would include paying higher interest rates
and charging lower loan rates. So how can I take it into account when I don't
know what or even if it will happen again? And if that is the policy, why have
the interest rates paid dropped in the current, increasing interest-rate
environment? My bond fund is heading south as interest rates rise and DCU
lowers the rate it's paying me. (Granted the bonds are longer-term rates.)

If I knew DCU would pay another $1M bonus for 1997, indeed I'd have to think
twice about the lower rate I'm now getting before jumping ship.

I'd like to know who sets the DCU rates, and on what basis. If there is going
to be a bonus, I'd like to know how the DCU is doing on a regular basis so that
I can judge what the value of the bonus might be. I'd like to know how to
estimate my share of the bonus. If there's not going to be a bonus because of
policy, I'd like to know now, not next January.

>    I didn't mean that YOU had to pay for services moving your
>    money market funds around (Probably a wise move, but time consuming)
>    everytime someone has a better rate.  What I did mean wsa that everyone
>    else is paying those fees so the bank(s) can offer higher rages to
>    get people to move to them.   In 6 months, who knows.

I would expect that the interest rate paid by a "bank" is based on what
interest rate the "bank" is charging on its loans, or on what rate is paid by
the investments it is making with money on deposit. Since rates are climbing, I
would expect the rate paid me to climb too. Perhaps DCU has decided to favor
those who borrow money instead of those who save; how else can we explain why
they are lowering what they pay on deposits? Perhaps they are also lowering the
interest rates they are charging. If not, their margin is increasing, no?

I would like an explanation from them. What I get from them now are glossy
brochures printed on unrecycled paper touting their many fine services, all of
which I can see with Netscape at my convenience. 

>    Actually, in your case, you might actually look into a money market
>    fund with check cashing privs (use checks to transfer when you need to
>    draw).   Over time, since their rates change daily (in come cases) you
>    might pull even more interest.
>
>    This would probably be less hassel then moving money as bank rates
>    change.
    
Until now I haven't had the problem since DCU rates paid on deposits were very
good. They are still better than most money market funds at least if you have a
big balance, and they are insured. I'd like to be able to stay with DCU.

    Re: .49
    
    "diusgusting" - in quotes. sarcasm.
    
    I don't expect yearly dividends either.  But, DCU does provide many
    services as part of doing business with them that I use, which most
    other financial institutions nickel and dime you to death for.
    
    Free checks is a service I cherish..  I'd accept lower  interest to
        have this for anyone who wants it.
    
    On line banking, shakey but extreamly useful for me.
    
    Feeless (for my intents and purposes) foreign ATM access
    
    All of these, and other services cost money, but we as owners (at least
    this owner) support this way of doing business.
    
    I haven't shopped rates lately, but their auto loan rate for 36 months
    looks real good to me (6.75%).
    
    I don't see too many BMW's in the DCU lot, so I son't believe they
    overpay themselves (besides our board watches that for us).   Besides,
    these folks deserve to be paid well, they are doing a good job of
    running ours business and providing service to us as customers.
    
    Yes, by dealing with several institutions, you can maximize profit and
    minimize cost, most of which is paid or provided by others who also do
    business with that particular institution.
    
    I believe much of the rate setting, and philosophical direction, for
    the DCU is revieled in the various board meeting minutes and associated
    data.
    
    I prefer to do my day to day financial business with a single
    institution.   I prefer this business to be as effortless on my part as
    possible.   I, personally, don't consider a savings account, or even a CD, and
    "investment".  So I don't expect DCU to necessarilly provide the
    maximum interest (while charging someone else the max to give it to
    me).   I would also prefer DCU stay away from fees, the MAJOR source of
    income for most banking institutions today.  (Many studies recently
    point out that Bank income is primarily from fees now, not interest
    received - which it used to be).
    
    SO, yes, if you major thrust is to invest a fairly large sum of money
    in fixed income, institution based, (bank, S&L, CU) paper and accounts,
    you need to look around, continuously.   If you want to MAXIMIZE your
    income, you'll need to more activly participate in the management of
    your invested assets also.
    
    As an aside, I wold not personally INVEST my major assets (Retirement
    funds, long term savings) in CD's anyhow.   I tend to buy stock in
    large corporations.
    
    	     -	You can find dividends that provide 2-4% (or better) direct
    		income.
    
    	     -  Most of these companies are still growing, and will be for
    		while (Johnson and Johnson, Kellog, Texaco, Exxon, etc)
    
    	     -  You pay a maximum of 26% federal tax on capital gains AFTER
    		you sel lthe stock.
    
    	     -	There is no limitation, or fine, when you sell the stock
    		(akin to the limitations on CD's for instance).
    
    	     -  I keep a portion of my money aside in Money market or
    		Savings so that I for qucik access so I cancontrol when I
    		sell.
    
    Bill
    
    

The nice folks at DCU have told me that some upward adjustment is going to be
made in interest rates paid, effective Monday. I'm not sure how many account
categories will change. I guess it'll show up at
http://www.dcu.com/onlineserv/rates.html next week. This is impressively
responsive of them in my opinion. Yea, DCU!

Re: .50
    
>    Yes, by dealing with several institutions, you can maximize profit and
>    minimize cost, most of which is paid or provided by others who also do
>    business with that particular institution.

So, I ask, is this exploitation of the hapless debt-burdened underclasses, or
just a sensible way for me to lower my own expenses and earn more money? I
mean, it's not like going into a full service store to get a demo of a product
and then buying it on the cheap by mail order, is it? I think that has some
moral taint to it. I do use DCU for my checking, I use a DCU ATM card, and I
have a mortgage with them. If I had a car loan, it'd probably be with them too.

I guess some of these banks ARE getting rich by charging usurious rates on
credit cards, but is then buying their high-paying CDs like investing in
Phillip Morris?
    
>    As an aside, I wold not personally INVEST my major assets (Retirement
>    funds, long term savings) in CD's anyhow.   I tend to buy stock in
>    large corporations.

This may be perfectly appropriate for you. However, keeping some portion of
one's investment portfolio in cash or cash equivalents is certainly a
recognized and valid asset allocation. 

In any investment portfolio, there is potential for return, and there is risk.
Allocating a component of assets to cash is a way of lowering the overall risk
of a portfolio. Consider the recommended asset allocations for people at
different stages in life or in the prepackaged portfolios available in our
401(K) plan.

>    	     -  You pay a maximum of 26% federal tax on capital gains AFTER
>    		you sel lthe stock.

I thought it was 28%, but you're certainly right that holding individual stocks
is a good way to control when you realize capital gains or losses. 

According to what my tax prep guy told me last week, I'm in the 28% fed-tax
bracket, so I conclude that I must pay the same marginal tax rate for realized
capital gains as for other income. (By selling shares of DEC, I avoid the
annoyance of capital gains and taxes thereon.)   %^(

    > I guess some of these banks ARE getting rich by charging usurious rates
    > on credit cards, but is then buying their high-paying CDs like investing
    > in Phillip Morris?
         
    Not at all.  Like the previous respondent, I like to keep my financial
    life as simple as possible, so that I can pay more attention to other
    things.  Accordingly, I love the DCU since it now does just about
    everything that I want a financial institution to do, and mostly it
    offers me the best deals that I could get.  Personally, I don't want 
    to have to keep shopping around for the best deals.  There's nothing 
    wrong with shifting money around to follow the best rate, if that's 
    what you like to spend your time doing.  I'd lose at that game -- I'd 
    most likely end up with some nice "teaser" rate that gets altered out 
    from under me when I'm not looking.  The DCU doesn't work that way,
    because the people who OWN it are the same as the people who USE it,
    and the DCU acts accordingly.
    
    	Enjoy,
    	Larry Seiler

    I now have everything at DCU, although I have thought about using
    another bank for checking (sorry, I think PC Branch is just this side
    of "unsuitable" and fairly "unreliable").
    
    But I've often wondered if having loans and deposits at the same
    institution made it easier for them to collect on any kind of disputed
    or non-payment by transferring the disputed amount out of your checking
    without permission.
    
    I ended up deciding it wasn't a big deal (I don't intend to default on
    any loans) but I find the question interesting at least from an
    academic point of view.
    
    	db