Conference unifix::sailing

    Look at Cetol Marine. Practical Sailor rated it as head and shoulders
    above varnish and other teak treatments for waterproof and longevity
    qualities. We've tried it too and it works well, every year scuff with
    scotch pad and slap on another coat...Akzo handles the stuff.

Could you reference the article in PS.  I have most of the last couple of years.
I am interested in what they considered desirable properties and how they
measured them.

    Practical Sailor also rated Deks Olje as the poorest of
    those varnishes tested.
    
    Joe

	I have used Cetol for one season.

	It does not have the amazing shine of varnish, being more like
	a stain. It does go on easily and looks natural in that the pigment
	is not too obvious.

	I doubt that it is durable enough for decks. In places where
	wood got trodden on, had dock lines over it etc then scuffs developed.
	However, it is extremely easy to "touch up" from time to time.  

	Mike


	p.s. I found teak oil to be totally useless.

	p.p.s I found lemon oil inside sometimes developed a
	mold on the surface which looked like a whitish dust.
	This year I'm trying Cetol on some of the teak interior.

    Three of the sailboats around me have used CETOL since it was
    announced. One got it straight from the factory before it hit the
    market. Needless to say, all three swear by the stuff. It does look
    nice and from watching, is easy to put on. They put on 3 coats when
    first switching to the product and then one coat a year afterwards.
    None of them use it below deck. Don't know why. 
    
    I use Carnuba and bee's wax on my boat. I buy it from a company in
    Tampa Florida called Restoration Technology (1-800-752-3511).
    I do the deck with it as well. It does make for a skating rink with
    leather shoes, but I have yet to find a bare foot or synthetic shoe
    bottom that does nothing but grip it like a suction cup when wet or
    dry. I've now used it on all my topside teak (there is a BUNCH of it)
    for the last year and am VERY pleased with the results. We plan on
    doing it again in two weeks. Cleanup is a breeze - just wipe off any
    wax you don't want. Cetol requires Acetone to remove from Gelcoat.
    
    Based on the items I've played with, this notes file and outside info,
    if I decide to go to a varnish type look on any future wood, I'll use
    Cetol. It does seem to be about the best thus far that I've found.
    
    Hope this help!
    Robert

I have tried teak oil, and found it useless, varnishes need attention

yearly, but will do well for one season.



Then i tried perma teak, and in my oponion it actually works.

I have a power boat with a large swim platform, its always walked

on, and most of the time its always wet. It still looks great, even

after 3 seasons.  

also comes in a variety of shades, and is a no brainer to apply.

JIm

 As soom of you know, I bought Holiday II from Dick Ashenden.  The actual result
is more the form of a partnership.  

Anyway, this weekend we were working on the boat, and I asked him why he used
the various varnishes etc.  Without getting religious, here is what he said.

He leaves the teak deck alone.  Varnish is an obvious bad thing for traction.
Teak has natural oils through out the wood.  Besides, Dick is the type of guy 
who likes the weathered well used and well maintained look.  No shiney brass
here.

Woodlife each year on the cockpit grating.  Helps to protect the grating a
little from the water and physical abuse it will receive.  A light sanding and
two coats of woodlife does it for the year.  This is an excellent winter time
boating fix.

Spars are done in Zpars Captains Choice.  Good looking stuff.  Dick used to use
a differnt varnish but had trouble with checking due to the sun as it built up.
Captains Choice has UV absorbers in it an looks beautiful.  The spars are out 
of the spray so maintenance is OK.  A light sanding and one coat of varnish does
it for normal maintanence.

Deks Olje is used for the cockpit coamings, cabin sides and hatches.  If needed,
the #1 helps preserve the wood.  If done properly, #2 is all that is required
each year.  A light sanding/good washing, and then a coat of #2.  It is easy to
apply.  More important, it is easy to remove if necessary.  I have done alot of
this in the past couple of days.

Dick likes Stypeze (sic).  This varnish remover is neat stuff.  It is
essentially acetone, naptha, and toluene.  You can take a trip and never leave
the farm, ie nasty on the lungs, skine etc.  It has a consistancy similar to
pertroleum jelly.  This is nice because it sticks to verticle surfaces instead
of dripping.  Cuts through old Deks Olje like a champ.

Will I change?  Of course, but this has worked for decades, so there is no hurry
to change now.  Much higher on the list is deck work and of course sailing. 
Hopefully Holiday II will get wet in a couple of weeks.  Just thought I would
share what I found out this weekend.

Doug Claflin
dtn 244-7042

As someone who has used Captains Spar varnish in the past, I learned about
about what I believe to be a relatively new product this past weekend - 
Sikkens.  At least ten boats on my dock, both sail and power, have used it
and claim wonderful results.  I must say that the results are visually
striking, if not a little yellow.

Has anyone else heard of this stuff?  Comes in a blue can ... about $28.00
a quart.

I intend to try it on my topsides teak in the next week or so, and will 
provide an update.

Regards,
Keith

    reply: I believe this is exactly the same stuff as the Cetol Marine in
    previous replies.  The entire name is Sikkens Cetol Marine.
    
    Regards,
    

I just met with my first failure on farnishing my booms.

They currently have varnish on them and all I am doing is adding a fresh coat 
for the year.

I am doing this work in my basement, so wind borne stuff is not a problem, dust
in general may be, humidity may be.  My basement does NOT suffer from standing
water though.  But, bear in mind the overall humidity is high areound here with
the rain going on.

I lightly sanded both booms.  I then tried to remove any dust with a damp cloth.
I used turpentine to dampen the cloth.

My brush is kept in turpentine.

I brushed Captain's varnish on in what I thought was a thin coat.

Results:

	The mizzen boom came out nice and shiney.  However, it has a case of the
	measels.  I can not tell if this is sanding which were missed, or little
	bubbles caused by poor brushing.  None of the measels were visible when
	I put the varnish on.

	The main boom never dried shiney and clear.  It is somewhat cloudy.

Currently I plan on once more lightly sanding the two booms.  I am going to
clean the brush in varnish thinner and let it dry before varnishing.

I am going to clean down the sanded booms with a cloth which has been dampened
with varnish thinner.

Try putting on another coat of varnish and see what happens.

Any additional advice is welcome.  I have greater hope for the mizzen than the
main.  For this year the main concern is protection.  Good looks can wait until
winter, ie. I am not wooding anything which I don't have too.  Gets in the way
of sailing.

Doug

    Doug,
        I don't know if you thinnned the varnish about 10-15% but I would
    try thinning after sanding with 1000 grit wet & Dry. Also let the booms
    dry completely after wiping down with a rag moistened with Turps.
    
    probably teaching grannie to suck egs but...
    
    good luck 
    
    cheers..........Pete

    Re: .10
    
    Moisture will cause varnish to have a cloud like finish. Excessive
    heat (sun) will cause the varnish to crinkle. You may want to
    add a drying to the varnish. Note that a little drier goes
    a long way, it doesn't require much. I have used a so
    called Japan drier in the past with good results.
    
    Joe

    Try a "TACK" cloth as your final wipe down. These are available in most
    hardware stores and paint supply houses. Their purpose is to get the
    last bits of dust, as the name implies, they are very sticky. This way
    you do not have to wipe the wood with turpentine, thiner etc.

This looks like the closest existing topic, so let's revive the 
thread of discussion.

I have bitten the bullet and am currently stipping my main boom. The
spruce has discolored in a couple of places (presumably the start of
rot or fungus, or just plain staining).  Anyway, a light sanding
will remove the last of the discoloration.

How should I refinish the boom?

Step 1. Strip forever.  almost done.

Step 2	Sand
	Get close with 80 grit?
	Do a finish sand around 240?
	Is finer sand paper a joke on wood, ie. 400 or 600 grit.

Step 3	Clean the wood.
	Turpentine and a cloth?
	Many swips with tack cloth.

Step 4	Prep wood.
	This is where the rubber hits the road.  Should I treat the 
	boom with linseed oil, woodlife, git rot or what.  It has 
	been 30 years since the boom was wooded.  Plan on another 30
	years before I do it again.  It makes sense to add some 
	sort of oil back into the spruce.  Even coated with varnish
	it must have driec out.

Step 5 varnish
	I plan on using Captains Varnish.  Seems to work well.  	
	Since the wood has not been varnished before, I figure 5-8
	coats are likely before the finish is smooth.  1 or 2 more
	coats for the yearly wear and tear.

Any comments or advice.  Phil Hill if you are still out there
sing out. 

Doug 
dtn 381-6355

You might surf the web for varnish manufacturer's sites.
I did an altavista search for interlux pettit epifanes zspar and got
among others:

http://www.maine.com/dutchmarine/epifanes/technical_FAQ.html

a site describing surface prep in great detail.

--RS

Gee 
I wish I had been tht smart.

Thanks for the idea, I shall.

	Doug,

	My first boat has lots of teak (by modern standards) and I spent
	a lot of time keeping it looking good.  My current boat has less
	teak, but after buying it 2 years ago, I decided to strip all
	teak back to bare wood and apply Sikkens Cetol Marine.

	It was the smartest thing I've done in ages.  That first 
	application has now survived one spring, two summers, two falls, 
	and two winters without the benefit of cover or touch up.  Altho
	I had intended to do a light sanding and apply a new thin coat
	before commissioning this spring the weather has been so crappy
	that I have yet to get to it.  The teak still looks great!

	Now, the question is ... does Sikkens work as well on Spruce.  I
	would guess yes, but others may have some intelligence on that.
	All I know is that you can't beat it for teak.

	Regards,
	Keith

    Where does one get Sikkens these days???   
    
    PS and everyone raves about it. I have seen it on some killer
    boats. But nobody seems to sell it.
    
    Any clues for here in New England??
    
    thanks

try their north american headquarters:

Akzo Nobel Coatings Inc
Administration Office North America: P.0 Box 37230
Louisville, KY 40233
Phone: (502) 367 6111
Fax: (502)375 5475

Re:                    <<< Note 2126.18 by 26178::KALINOWSKI >>>
                           -< Where to get Sikkens >-

    Here in the Maryland/Virginia area, I see quarts of Sikkens for $27 or
so in most of the discount marine stores ... Boaters World, BOATUS, etc.
If you can't get it "up north", give me a holla and I'll track some down
for you.

Regards,
Keith 301-261-0320 (H.O.M.E.)