Conference unifix::sailing

Well, sort of. Last Sunday was my first time iceboating, in a homemade rig
that my uncle build 3 years ago, which uses the mast and sail of my
Sunfish. My 11-year old son and I had a great time at Lake Massabesic
near Manchester N.H. At one point, I counted 18 iceboats, probably 12
of which were the classic "DN"

When you say adapt a snark to an iceboat, what do you really mean. Using
the sail and mast is of value, but maybe not the hull. My hull is a pair
of 15' 2x4s on edge about 20" apart. The rear half has a plywood
floor, and the front ends are bent together at the bow to support a 
steerable front runner. The plank, which supports the rear runners,
bolts on to the hull. The runners are 1/4 inch steel sandwiched within
1/2 inch plywood stiffeners. This is a crude iceboat. I will be making several
improvements to it at minimal cost. Already it sails at about 1/2 the speed
of a DN. I estimate it was doing 20 m.p.h. when the DN's were doing 40
in 5-15 mph (at most ) winds.

The total parts cost, including some custom welding, was around $150,
given that I already had the mast and sail.

If you are around central N.H. you can probably catch me at Massabesic
one of these weekends if the ice stays good and the wind blows. Bring a
camera and you can take lots of pictures of it. If you are not in the area,
I could shoot a roll of film - which is something that is probably worth
doing anyway.

    If you see a green and white sail with a Sunfish logo on it that
    will be me.
    
My basic thought for you is, why worry about using the Snark's hull - 
that is the easy part to replicate in wood. It's all the other
stuff that you have to hang off it, like runners and a steering mechanism
that take the time and energy.

Bill

               

    HI,
    I AGREE WITH .1. BUILD THE HULL AND USE A SAIL AND RIGGING FROM
    A SUMMER UNIT. I BOUGHT A DN WITHOUT SPARS AND RUNNERS. WE USED
    A SAIL SETUP FROM A SANDPIPER. (not shouting, scuse me) I fabricated
    runners from the orriginal plans, (.25 plate steel, aluminum
    stiffeners. It was quite a job to build the runners (20 hrs.)
    
    the boat goes real well. its snowing right now so we may not get
    any more icing.  I believe length, width, and mast hight should
    be calculated in scale.
    
    John
    

    Has any one ever converted a Hobie for hard-water sailing? I would
    love to convert mine. I would think this might be too much sail
    area though, is it?
    
    Mr. Natural...
    

    Does anyone have the plans to convert a sailboard rig to
    the ice?  It comes to mind there might be 2 kinds...the kind
    you fall off of standing up, and a genuine iceboat using
    the rigging from the board into an iceboat hull.
    
       
    Beau
    

The windsurfing shop in Wolfeboro sells what I believe is accepted as one of
the better designs for windsurfing on ice and snow covered ice. The system
uses three skis with the outer two skis slightly canted to allow the edges to
catch the ice. The center ski is parallal to the surface and held somewhat
higher than the the outside skis. On ice only the outer two skis are in
surface contact. On snow, the center ski supplies additional support. Because
my DN is useless in the snow (like today) I could get interested in
windsurfing on snow covered ice. 

If you were to study one one these rigs it occurs to me that you could build 
one relatively cheaply using old skis. Perhaps the frame is available 
separately from the skis.

- Bob

    I have in my garage a mast, boom, sail, and a few other misc.
    parts from a Sunfish-like boat.  The rig is Marconi style though
    so it may be more suitable for an iceboat than the Sunfish rig.  
    The mast looks to be about 18'.  I figured to build a new hull 
    one day, but I doubt that will happen.
    
    If anyone is interested in them for an iceboat, or whatever, send
    me mail at CECV03::WARDROP and we'll work something out.
    
    Rick,

Time to update this note with with some experience gained from the school of
hard knocks, regarding homemade iceboats. I have been out 4 times on Lake
Massabesic (Manchester / Auburn N.H.) in the last 6 weeks.

After the first outing, I realized the need for several improvments,
like making sure the runners aren't hooked and are parallel. That really
got the boat moving to where I could discover another level of problems.

Weekend before last was quite windy. With the lateen rigged sail from
my sunfish, there was sufficient wind force to bend the upper spar about
20 degrees downward, just aft of where the halyard tied on. I was able to
straighten it by just supporting the ends and leaning on the bend with 
body weight. I spoke with other iceboaters who had sailed lateen rigs.
Their recommendation was to slip a "close fit" piece of electrical condiut
inside the spar. Also a 1.25 dia closet rod (do they come in that size)
should work. This will add a lot of weight, so it would be need to be
removable for Sunfishing in the summer.

Sunday, my son and I went out again, with the straightened spar (but no
reinforcment), planning to take it easy on the sheet loading. That worked
ok, but after only a few minutes of sailing a new failure mode developed.
The lake was about 15% covered by small patches of snow - just enough
to be difficult to find a straight path between them. The left runner
hit a snow patch about 1.5 inches deep while we were doing about 25
m.p.h. The pine 2x6 plank snapped even with the hull, where the mounting
clamp bolt went through. We instantly were on our left side, sail and mast
against the ice, and somewhow still sitting in the hull. no other damage to the
boat or either of us  (well - a couple of minor bruises, but nothing worthy
of mention). Moral: pine 2"x6"x8.5' lumber is not adequate for a runner
plank. My current thinking is to laminate a pair of spruce 1"x8", introducing
the upward pre-bend as I glue it up.  Any one know of a local (So. N.H.)
    source for spruce?

It has been a very good season for iceboating, with almost clear ice
for the last 8-10 weekends.

Our experiences with this boat (only a $250 investment so far) have been a real
education, and reminds me of an expression a former manager used to enjoy
repeating: "You can tell the pioneers; they are the ones with the arrows
sticking in their (backside)"

    Bill
    

RE: .7,

Would a stay running from the bow aft to the end of the runner plank 
perhaps also offer more "tear resistance" without adding much cost?

J.

    Yes, I considered that. A stay from bow to runner would both offer
    more "tear resistance" and be of minimal cost, but I don't think
    I want a wire in that position. As best it would be one more thing
    to get in the way to trip over, given that we walk up to iceboats
    and push them to get started. And it seems like a bit of a hazard
    to me. I'd rather be hit in the legs by a 1.5" plank than a 1/8
    or 3/16 wire if any speed were involved. I think my solution will
    be to build a runner plank that can take the stress.

>>Any one know of a local (So. N.H.) source for spruce?

You might try "The Pine Center".  I believe it's in Londonderry.  From the
Massabesic traffic circle, take the road that goes past the western end of the
lake, past the yacht club.  It's about 5 miles down that road on your right.
I get pine there, but they advertise hardwood and fir as well.