Conference unifix::sailing

I have a DN and am a member of the U.S. and New England associations. I'll
bring in a list of suppliers tomorrow, which it seems is what you're looking
for. Feel free to give me a call. 

You don't have much time. The Eastern Region First Freeze regatta is scheduled
for next weekend and last year some of the best iceboating was the week 
between the Christmas and New Year holidays. 

If anyone else is interested in owning a DN, send mail. I've seen several 
interesting ads for used DNs this year.

- Bob
  DN 4284
  DTN 381-2819

    BOB,
    Thanks for your reply. We hope to get this onto the ice this year.We
    have a sail, mast, and boom from a SANDPIPER to rig temp. What we
    need is, runners, mast, boom, rigging and ice. We have the rest
    in a1 shape.
    
    I would be interested in knowing what the market value of a complete
    DN is. We paid 250 for the boat without the mast, boom, and runners.
    
    In the summer we sail a matched pair of JAVELINS.
    
    JOHN.

I've seen older (and heavier) DNs advertised for $800. Used Gougeon DNs run 
from $1500 to $2000 depending on number and condition of sails, runner sets, 
boat bag, spring board, etc. 

For all hardware, except spars, you probably want to contact: 

	William B. Sarns Co. 
	38101 Huron Point Drive 
	Mount Clemens Michigan 48045
	(313)463-4269 or 468-3531

Bill Sarns has two equipment lists - one for standard DNs and a second for 
Gougeon DNs.

For spars, there are several sources but the closest is Kenyon in Guilford, 
Connecticut. I have a standard Kenyon mast and an Alumitron boom; but, if 
you're buying new, you probably want to go for a wing mast.

There is also a Maine DN builder that may be able to help: Johanson 
Boat Works, Camden.

Don't be surprised if you find these people busy or short of stock. The World 
Championships are scheduled for January in Burlington, Vermont.

- Bob

    RE: .1  With the temperatures in the 60's this past weekend in MA,
            where do you plan to find ice this early in the season?
    
    	    Just a thought.
    
    	    Charlie

    Another spar and rigging supplier closer than Kenyon used to be
    Zephyr Products, Narrows Rd. Wareham, Mass.  Believe they still
    do DN work, and if I remember correctly, have a spar section (aluminum)
    that was originally specified for DN's.  This was some years ago,
    so may have changed.  Person to call at Zephyr would be Gordon Goodwin.
    
    Good luck.

    
             What is the exact date for the Burlington VT. race? Is
    there a news letter or magazine which carries stories, want ads
    and race schedules? I bought the plans for a Gougen DN last year.
    These plans are not easy! I would definately like some more info
    on the "Fixed Wing" sail.
    
                                  Randy

re .6

Details should be in my next IDNYRA Newsletter and when received I'll post the 
information here. My current understanding is that races begin on Jan 22.

Last year's worlds were held in Leningrad an approximately 150 DNs competed. 
There are more DNs in Europe than the U.S. and Canada, so I'll guess there 
won't be as many at Burlington; but it should still be very interesting. Of 
course, whether the races are held in Burlington or hundreds of miles away 
depends on ice conditions. Burlington is only the primary site. 

Please note that I said "wing mast" not "fixed wing sail." However, now that
you mention it, I have seen pictures of high-tech iceboats that just might
have had fixed wing sails. 

- Bob

    GOOD DAY,
    We havn't had any luck finding the parts we need yet. A couple of
    questions though. Two typs of DNs mentioned, what are the differences?
    What is a wing mast?? airfoil design?? I wonder what type we bought.
    It is made of plywood, wodden spring board, and appears to be in
    very good condition. Also didn't mention, has a new sail.
    
    Does it matter what type of mast we use?? aluminum,wood etc. We
    could make up the mast and boom from regular sail boat stock but
    we don't want to devalue the boat.
    
    Still needed
    
    runners                              JOHN TAYLOR
    mast                                 ASO M/S I.I.
    boom                                 DTN 271-6745
    
    thanks for your info.                AUGUSTA, MAINE
    JOHN.

I've only owned a DN for one year so I'm not an authority, but the major
difference between Gougeon and standard DNs is weight. My DN is minimum weight
but this is not necessarily an advantage for cruising because it is also
relatively fragile. Some more visible differences between standard and Gougeon
DNS are that Gougeon DNs use a bob stay post and standard DNs use a bob stay
strut. Gougeon DNs also use single arm steering. 

A wing mast is exactly as you describe: an improved airfoil design that
probably pivots better than mine. Aluminum and wood masts are both common but
the best masts are neither aluminum or wood. The best masts are a composite of
wood and carbon fiber. Unless you have a very up-to-date racing DN hull, I
believe spars made from standard dinghy aluminum spar stock would be very
adequate; but I might note that I have never seen a DN with a tapered mast so
I would stay with a constant cross-section spar. 

I'm mailing you a price list for William Sarns Co. He is the major source for
plate runners in North America. Last year a set of runners listed for $190.
Sarns also carries the mast and boom hardware you will need if you make up
your own spars. 

- Bob

    THANKS FOT THE INFO.
    
    Next question is, what is a bob stay? post?
    
           Ours has 2 tie-rods with aircraft ends.
                                              
    What is the prefered runner type??  We have plans for 3 types, one
    of which is plate steel 1/4" thick with a max wt. of 17 lbs.
       
    john.

Your description of your steering appears to match the standard DN plans in
the class yearbook so I would say that you have standard steering. 

The bob stay is the wire that runs from bow to stern underneath the fuselage.
Some DNs have s short bob stay in which case it terminates just forward of the
runner plank. My understanding is that Gougeon DNs are too fragile to have a
short bob stay. An advantage of a short bob stay is that it is easer to 
mount the runner plank.

The bob stay is held off the bottom of the hull by a strut (V-shaped fitting)
or post. It is very much like the jumper stays found on some sailboats and I
assume its function is to add rigidity and counterbalance mast compression
forces. 

As far as runners go, plate runners are the most common style and are used on
hard ice and anything over a light wind. Other runner types are angle iron
(slush) runners for sailing on softened snow ice on warm spring days and
T-iron runners (iron insert into a wood runner). 

T-iron runners have the advantage of being lighter and some people use
them as their standard runners. Besides weight, I'm not sure what their
advantages and disadvantages are; but I'm suspicious they are sensitive to the
quality of ice and generally will require higher quality ice than plate
runners because of the shorter entry curve at the front of the runners. The
only runners I have are plate runners, but I mean to make or buy a set of
slush runners this year. One set of plate runners and one set of slush runners 
is a common inventory.

All of these are great questions and I just wish I knew more about the sport
to help you more. Ice boaters are a very helpful group and I'm saving your
questions for one of those days when we have to wait for the wind. 

- Bob

    BOB,
    YOU HAVE GIVEN ME A WELTH OF INFORMATION!
    
    The stay doesn't interfere with mounting the spring board.
    We should have at least two sets of runners, interesting. I am able
    to make each design witout to much difficulty, just time is hard
    to find.
    
    THANKS, JOHN

    Can someone reply with the schedule of races for New England? I've
    always wanted to watch an IceBoat race.
    
    By the way, I noticed a book on Iceboat racing at the Acton Public
    Library yesterday. In fact they had two shelves of sailing books.
    
    
      Thanks
    
       john
    
    (who hasn't broken down the cat yet, but is running out of lakes
    to go sailing on!!!)
    

    There is an interesting cover article on iceboating on Lake
    Winnipesaukee in this weeks "Granite State Vacationer" - which is
    one of those freebies that are given away wherevere tourists
    congregate.
    
    Most of the article is about Leigh Turner, a long time iceboat "pilot"
    from Wolfeboro, whose pride and joy is a Class A Skeeter, that may
    be the "fastest boat in New England".
    
    Of particular interest is the cover photo - it is a silhouette of
    a DN with sail number 4196; none other than Bob Blaisdell of ZKO
    and a frequent contributor to this file.
    
    Bill
    

    Also from this weeks "Granite State Vacationer":
    
    "Those who would like to watch iceboats in action can do so, weather
    permitting, the second weekend in March, when the annual Winnipesaukee
    Spring Frolic is held on the big lake. Between 30 and 60 iceboaters
    from as far away as New Jersey are expected to turn out for the
    event. Iceboats can also be seen at other times on Lake Winnipesaukee
    and on other lakes in New Hampshire. For more information on the
    Spring Frolic or iceboating in general, call the Wolfeboro Inn at
    (603) 569-3016"
    
    (end of article)
    
    It is my understanding that this will not be (just?) a course race,
    but will be a touring event around that part of the lake. The sponsors
    are attempting to attract some of the large "ice yachts" as well
    as the traditional racing classes.
    
    Bill
    

re .15 Thanks for the PR.

As of last night the New England Ice Yacht Association was reporting that 
"The Great Winnipesaukee Spring Frolic and Long Distance Ice Races" are on for 
this weekend. The particulars follow:

	Dates:		March 11 & 12
	Location:	Wolfeboro, New Hampshire
	Launching:	Brewster Beach, Wolfeboro Bay
	Times:		 9:00 AM Registration
			 9:30 AM Skippers Meeting
			10:00 AM First Flag

- Bob

    
    The "Great Winnipesaukee Spring Frolic" (for IceBoats)
    suffered from lack of wind on Friday, Saturday and most
    of Sunday. Sunday the wind increased, but 2" of new snowfall
    didn't help the surface conditions much.
    
    I would estimate about 20 DN boats, 10 additional
    modified (non class-legal) DN boats, 3 "scooters"
    (capable of operating on ice and water, but not on fire),
    about 10 "Skeeters" (larger, more luxurious than DNs),
    and 5 "Hudson River Ice Boats".
    
    The Hudson River boats were 3 of about 25' length, 1 of 36'
    and 1 of 50' length. The 50' Jack Frost is said to be the largest
    ice boat in North America. All 5 Hudson River types were
    *original* (circa 1890-1900), gaff-rigged, wood sloops with
    stern steering. They had mostly original hardware, with cast or
    'smithed parts (no electric welds anywhere.) and cotton cloth sails.
    
    Sunday nite around sunset the two best (by far) iceboaters
    were seen zipping around the lake, into the darkness, with 
    icicles on thier faces.
    
    Some iceboaters carry wooden dowells taped to their steering wheels.
    The dowells can be ripped of, pulled apart into halves, revealing
    strong concealed steel filepoints. According to an anonymous
    source, these quick release twin-knives are handy for "getting
    oneself out holes". I.e. "the water". Sort of like a mountain
    climber's ice axe, except meant for iceboaters tired of swimming.
                                   

re .17

>    Some iceboaters carry wooden dowells taped to their steering wheels.
>    The dowells can be ripped of, pulled apart into halves, revealing
>    strong concealed steel filepoints. According to an anonymous
>    source, these quick release twin-knives are handy for "getting
>    oneself out holes". I.e. "the water". Sort of like a mountain
>    climber's ice axe, except meant for iceboaters tired of swimming.

I hope not. The ice picks should be on a lanyard attached to the iceboaters
clothing - at least that's where mine are. If you get ejected from an iceboat,
having them attached to the the steering wheel or tiller will do you no good.
I hope I never have to use my ice picks; but, if I ever go through the ice, I
want mine on me and not with the boat. 

Yes the weather and sailing conditions were disappointing, but getting 
together with the large number iceboaters sailing so many different types of 
boats made it worthwhile for me. 

- Bob 

    The IceBoat Frolic follow-up-weekend had plenty of
    wind on Sunday. It gradually increased to about 20 knots
    from North by mid-afternoon. There were about 12 DN's
    etc out on the ice.
    
    Warm temps and increased sun exposure had enlarged
    most of the melt-holes on the ice, and there
    was airspace below much of the ice surface crust, but
    only enough to cause 2 or 3 problem episodes.
    
    By afternoon at least 6 iceboats had ventured out
    over/past 2 or 3 pressure ridges and into the broad
    part of Lake Winnepissaukee. Some wished they had brought
    smaller sails. The 50' Jack Frost was loaded onto trailer
    on Saturday, but the 36' Cold Wave was sailing fast
    on Sunday and a beautiful sight.

    Well here we are again, ice with snow on it before we could get out.
    
    This year we have two DNs and no ice. Does anyone know where, in the 
    New England area, there is suitable ice?? I am from Augusta Maine and
    hope to sail this winter. The ice here has up to 10 inches of snow.
    
    JOHN

    I was out in Colorado last week. Got a day of skiing in. On the way
    back to denver there is a small lake just west of Esinhower (sp) tunnel
    on RT 70. On the lake were 3 Dodges from some performance driving
    school. They were crawling around the ice. Sharing the ice was a DN
    moving about 10 times faster. 
    
    My mind started thinking of what the adjusters would say if there was
    an accident, ie "I was leeway of this dodge omni when he turned to port. I 
    yelled Starboard! 3 times but it was to no avail" ;>) ;>)
    
       john