Conference unifix::sailing

    Sell your boat.

    The compulsion to sail is genetically induced.  Those not born with
    the aberration will never acquire it.  The effort expended trying
    to disprove this unalterable law of the universe will be put to
    better use in scaling down one's own sailing ambitions or seeking
    other conjenial sailing companions.  Sad but true.
    
    - gene (one who's been there)

    While searching for my present boat, I made a point of asking the
    owners why they were selling their boats.
    
    I was amazed to find that 99% of the men responded with "With wife
    wants it to go" or "My wife hates sailing".
    
    From this I coined a phrase that I use to tease my wife:
    
                "Women are the enemy of sailing" 
    
    Be careful about using this line; if you're standing at
    the edge of the dock, you may wind up in the drink.
    
    -Paul
    

    Come on, guys!  There have to be some success stories for "helping"
    spouses to appreciate sailing.  Right now when I go sailing, wife can
    pull long face, but I am still going to go. I try to give her notice of
    my sailing days well in advance, then if schedule conflicts I arrange
    for an alternate day.  Compromise and not overdoing it seem to be
    working.  I have another complication; wife is afraid of water.  Loves
    being around it, but not in or or it.  Your thoughts are appreciated.
    
    One other way I am handling it is that she is not my mother from whom I
    have to get permission to do it.  Rather, I am trying to be sensitive
    to her desires and wishes, especially around schedules and around the
    house chores she expects me to do.
    
    
    Paul
    
    PS  I have "rediscovered" the joys of sailing after about a 15 year
    hiatus.
    

Changing venue can help. I moved my boat from Lake Massabesic to Lake
Winnipesaukee, specifically Wolfeboro, and my wife's interest in sailing
returned. There is no chance that I could interest her in serious racing,
overnight cruises or Hobie Cats; but, fortunately for me, I'm happy 
daysailing.

Moving to Wolfeboro and Lake Winnipesaukee did more than improve the sailing. 
It also added swimming, better scenery, shopping (something to do while I 
worked on the the boat), and many good restaurants (well earned after a full 
sailing day).

You can also take the two (or more) boat approach. I have a Sunfish (actually
my wife's Sunfish) for the days that are too windy for sailing the Catalina 22
and I added an ice boat a couple years ago. The DN satisfies my need for
racing and speed sailing. 

- Bob

    Check out note 134 and replies this was discussed in great detail.
    
    
    Forrest
    Ps.  I only took a few minutes with a DIR/TITLE to find it

You might try finding out exactly what aspects of sailing your beloved dislikes.
Once I learned that perfect sail trim is not very important, and comfort is, 
I had an enthusiastic convert. He is willing to tack every ten minutes in a 
narrow passage, but not willing to trim the sails (or watch someone else trim 
the sails) "for no good reason".  The potential for speeding up a smidge bit is not
a good reason in his book.  Needless to say I haven't bothered to try and talk 
him into racing.

Margaret.

My definition of a narrow passage is one where you tack every 40 seconds...

Ross Faneuf

    Some have a different view of cruising that manifiests itself in
    statements like:
    
    1.  Can you change course, the sail is blocking my sun.
    2.  My drink is empty.
    3.  Remember, five degress is max heel.
    4.  Can you turn up the air conditioning?
    
    These requirements are easily met by Norweigian Lines.
    
    So alas, the alternative mentioned in earlier notes is in process.
    The trick is, keeping boat while loosing wife.  

	My wife told me if I went sailing one more time she'd leave
	me...

		...I miss her!

    RE .9
    
    Hank, I have the solution to your particular dilemma.  Take your spouse
    unit racing, preferably in conditions like this past week-end.  During 
    the course of the race, you should:
    
    1.  Come dangerously close to impaling at another boat at the starting 
        line (preferably not the committee boat)
    
    2.  Broach at least once 
    
    3.  Contest one or more boats for inside rights at a mark rounding
    
    4.  Call for four or more headsail changes on the first upwind leg
    
    5.  Generally act like a racing skipper
    
    After this experience, your spouse unit will either consider cruising
    the ultimate delight in relaxation or she'll leave you.  Either way
    your problem is solved.
    
    :^)
    
    ... Bob
    

  Let me tell you a salutary tale that has left me a poor but happy 
  man........

  I started sailing in dinghy's when trees were trees and not plastic, as I 
  grew up I started occasionally crewing on boats you could sleep on made of 
  plastic and wondered one day if I would ever own such an expensive piece 
  of leisure paraphernalia. 

  I gave up sailing for 8 years due to  pressures of career and simply 
  having no money other than that to feed and cloth myself. During that time 
  I met the effervescent Jacqui who on holidays in the Med would come and 
  sit on dinghy whilst I made it go hither and thither. But alas...she did 
  not enjoy it inspite of the warm seas and the balmy airs. 

  Now  the effervescent Jacqui comes from North Yorkshire where sailors are 
  rare due to the bellicose nature of weather and coastline  and men use 
  phrases like ee ba gum and speak a language that is rumoured to be 
  English.

  Now with age creeping on and two incomes to play with and sundry years of 
  marriage behind us I felt the urge to go sailing again but the 
  effervescent Jacqui felt we needed new  carpets new ...... but we were 
  under mortgaged at the time.... I decided to leave her and go and do a 
  Yachting course for my Coastal skipper certificate. As it was July in her 
  normal blunt style she informed me that I was not leaving her for a week 
  and she was coming as well. Thus we found ourselves out in the Solent for 
  7 days when it was never less than a 6 and normally a 7/8. At the end of 
  the week she seemed to have enjoyed herself but....... I asked her if she 
  would like a house extension or a boat , I had already made my mind up 
  that she would answer house extension and   replied to her in that case 
  would she mind if I bought myself a 16 foot dinghy to potter about in but 
  she replied to me that she had a 26 footer in mind....One year later we 
  took delivery of a 28 footer which we have had many season of happy 
  cruising in the Solent and coasts of France. 

  When asked why she has taken to sailing so actively she replies thus . . .

  Sailing was obviously important to Pete and thus I had to experience a 
  concentrated dose of sailing. By going out in a 33 ft yacht with a an 
  experienced instructor and working with Pete I got hooked. 

  She has since gone back to the same yachting school to expand her 
  knowledge.

  Today it is she who is urging us to go further into debt and think about a 
  longer yacht to enable us to expand our cruising area.

Pete
    

    Last season I got my first sailboat and had a woman friend at the
    time. Though she liked sailing we only went once. Well as time went
    on I met another woman who really liked sailing. So to make a long
    story short woman friend number 1 is history and the present one I'm
    going to marry on May 12, 1990. I think we are going sailing on
    our honeymoon; her choice! 

    As a veteran of two marriages totalling 22 years, plus around
    35 years of sailing I think a comment is in order. My current 
    wife uses some excuse for not lovig sailing that has to do with
    her being almost drowned at an early age, etc, etc. The plain
    fact is that she doesn't like being cramped up in either my boat
    (25 foot) or anything smaller than the Queen Mary, because 
    a) she doesn't understand it, b) she hasn't been given the opportunity
    to succeed in small doses (as I was, in dinghies, when I was
    a kid), and I might add fail in small doses without risking life
    and limb, also in dinghies c)there is a tremendously difficulty
    going from drink preparer to first mate as an adult, where the
    slightestaction (turn on the engine, rig a jib, etc) requires
    a set of skills which are totally foreign to a landlubber.
    
    My wife and I have discussed this time and again, and have,
    unfortunately, agreed to disagree; I have my sailing frineds
    for real sailing, and she comes on the boat when the weather 
    is nice, Buzzard's Bay is calm, and we can expect to be out no more
    than 4-5 hours. 
    
    I used to live on the Great Lakes, where there was a local
    yacht club with pool, bar, etc. I would recommend that you
    find one of these, club race during which time your wife 
    can "do her thing", and then socialize together when the
    racing's done.  There's just the possibility that thepeer
    p[ressure will be enough to get her to take a short cruise,
    and maybe even a basic sailing course. 

    As a coastal cruising sailor I can't speak to racers or pond crossers.
    However, my wife and I are on the boat almost EVERY weekend and all
    of our vacations.  In fact, she's more enthusiastic now than ever. 
    Several factors have helped this happy situation:
    
    1.  She took the sailing classes at Regatta Point.
    
    2.  We both took the Power Squadron course together.
    
    3.  If I was making her nervous I didn't chide her, I tried to put
        the boat on a more comfortable point of sail.
    
    4.  I did most of the cooking and maintenance so she would want
        to go sailing, rather than staying home.
    
    5.  We never go out in winds over 25 knots.  If they build up after
        we're out, that's fine, we deal with it.  So we spend an extra
        day or two in harbor - big deal, I'm still on the boat.
    
    6.  We always do one meal ashore every day if we're someplace where
        there's a restaurant.
    
    7.  We never "rough it" more than a couple of days.  A hot shower (even
        in Cuttyhunk) is far cheaper than a marriage counsellor.
    
    8.  Along those same lines, our boat is as comfortable as possible. 
        Not quite a floating condo, but not boy scout camp either.  Yes,
        we have a small TV aboard.  We don't watch it much, but sometimes
        you only have to watch the evening news to really appreciate the
        simplicity, beauty and clarity of purpose that only seems to happen
        when were sailing.
    
    9.  Our youngest child is 16 so my wife and I can now sail alone.  I
        was very surprised how much more Sue enjoyed the boat when she
        didn't have to worry about the kids.
    
    I've been married for 23 years.  Of that we've been sailing for 16, on
    four different boats.  If Sue asked me to sell the boat tomorrow, I'd
    do it.  Because she knows that, she'll never ask.  Then again, if I
    took up racing . . .

    re .13
    
    Beware!!!  Most of the wives in my Etchells fleet sailed before
    they got married.  Now almost none of them do.  Most of the owners
    consider themselves lucky that they're even allowed to waste their
    weekends sailing on their own. 
    
    - gene

    If ever there was a woman who ought to pass the genetic/environmental
    test for sailors it would be my wife. Born and bred in Marblehead,
    brother a Captain for major freight lines, Uncle a big time Boston
    lawyer who races for Eastern Yatch Club, father owning sail (but
    turning to power), took sailing lessons as a kid.
    
    
     But she hasn't the slightest interest in sailing. This is because
    she hates being cramped in a boat. She is quite athletic and has
    an enormous amount of energy which has to be burnt off. I tell her
    that that is easily accomplished in a sailboat (especially an old
    one), but she needs to be able to run around.
    
     As it happens, she has interests that I don't care for. Mostly
    things like biking trips with groups of people,and such. 
    
     So.....the solution is that, one day a weekend, she'll do what
    she wants,and I'll do what I want. Simple.
    
     She *has* deigned to step aboard *ONCE* each season....just to
    be certain she hates it. :^)
    
    
    
    	Gregg

    I to have a spouse that could care less if she ever set foot on
    a sail boat again.  I say again, because before we were married
    we went sailing almost every weekend.
    
    After fighting with her, getting mad, compromising and down right
    bribery I have resigned myself that there is no need for me to move
    up to my "dream cruiser" as she will never get on it.  
    
    So I now go out about 10 time a season, by myself on day trips.
    Sometimes I sneak down to the boat, lay in the bunk and snooze.
    The boat is paid for (and with today's used sailboat market it maybe
    a good thing that my dreams are on the rocks), is small enough to
    put in and out myself and the maintainance is low.
    
    By reading the other replys in this note, I guess I'm not as alone
    as I have envissioned.
    
    Maybe we (the solo sailers) should get together and have sailing
    parties!
    
    Just a thought,
    
    Tom
    
     

    
    re .1
    
    SELL YOUR WIFE - BUY A BIGGER BOAT
    
    re .10
    
    THAT's THE SPIRIT
    
    Good Sailing, Mike
    

    re: 18
    
    Tom,
    
    I'm in the same sort of situation: SO will sail as long as there
    is no wind to make "this damn thing tip over".
    
    For a while, my younger daughter was first mate.  At age 8-9 it
    must have been exciting/different/change-of-paceish to be off with
    dad for the day.  AT 11 things are less so.  About the only promise
    compelling enough to get her out of bed for sailing is the possibilit
    of a club race.
    
    I have tried a couple of the techniques suggested by others in this
    file to interest my SO, but the book seems closed on the subject.
    Without trying to seem flip, it really is saddening as I enjoy the
    sport so much.
    
    Ron
    

    Back in my bachelor days, the second Summer I had my boat, I was
    going with a girl who seemed to enjoy sailing with me and racing
    on weekends out of Sandy Bay Yacht Club in Rockport.  Every Saturday
    and Sunday afternoon we raced in the 12' Firefly class.  
    
    One day, the club steward, a mature and very-married man, took me aside
    and inquired as to our relationship.  "You want my advice?", he said,
    "If you're serious about this young lady, and I assume you are, seeing
    as how you're always together, -- if you're serious, get yourself
    another crew." 

    "But why?" I asked, "We work pretty well together."  "It's like trying
    to teach your wife how to drive", he said, "It will come to no good
    end.  You want my advice?  Get another crew." 
    
    Well, I didn't.  One day, as I was talking to her about what time I'd
    pick her up, etc., she said "Did it ever occur to you that I might want
    to do something else besides sailboat racing?"  Come to think of it, it
    hadn't.  Luckily, that was towards the end of the season.  We didn't
    get married.  We never won any races either.  Oh well.
    
    When I met my wife-to-be, it was in the Fall and we got married
    the end of May.  Her first introduction to sailing was on our
    honeymoon, we spent a week camping in a tent on a 64-acre island
    on the Coast of Maine.  The only way to and from the island was
    in my 12' Firefly.  We had to make more than one trip to carry out
    all our gear.  The tide rip was pretty fierce and my two cats didn't
    like the rain and put up an awful racket from where they'd crawled
    up under the bow.  I think she would've joined them if she had been
    able to pry her fingers free of the gunwhale.
    
    We didn't do too much sailing that week, except on foggy days.  She
    didn't mind it in the fog 'cause she couldn't see how far we were
    from shore.  I guess if she couldn't see, she could pretend it was
    within walking distance.  I suppose it was, 'cept it was somewhat
    over her head for most of the way.

    I never did talk her into going racing.  
        
    Somebody else owns that boat now.  He worked at DEC as I recall,
    but I don't remember his name.  I hope he gave my boat a good home.
    
    

    In one of these notes someone mentioned that he believed "women were
    the enemy of sailing".  Does anyone have any ideas why women do not
    take to sailing as much as the men do?  The usual response is "because
    the "damn thing" tips so much", but I am sure there is more to it than
    that.  Perhaps something in the psyche of men that is not in a woman's
    psyche?  Any thoughts anyone?
    
    By the way, I have had a happy solution to my situation with a
    non-sailing wife.  I have taken my children sailing and they have been
    so enthralled with it that my wife says she will support my love for it
    because she can see a definite benefit for family togetherness and
    father and son bonding.  Meanwhile,   my 10  year old daughter also 
    loves it and cannot get enough of it.  So for now, I count myself
    fortunate to have come to this compromise with my wife.
    
    
    Paul
    

    I have about the same problem, except that my wife likes to sail, with
    the boat healing less than 10 deg. This is our third year in sailing,
    and we are making much progress.
    
    I try to de-trim when possible to minimize heel. The first year, at 5
    deg, she was in a panic state. Now, that usually doesn't happen until
    approaching 20 degrees. Gradually, we are licking the problem. I have
    found that by encouraging her to get involved, such as take the tiller,
    raise,lower sails, etc. she is gradually getting more comfortable.
    
    I'm fairly optimistic that, with a few more years, she will be able to
    handle the boat heeling, within reason. I don't, however, think she
    will ever be an accomplished sailor since life long fears are difficult
    to overcome.
    
    Joe
    

    I have a belief that more women don't like it because they are asked to
    be passengers with little control over what is going on.  They are
    asked to trust the competence of the man at the helm for their safety
    and enjoyment.  How many times have we seen the classic anchor dropping
    ritual where the man is firmly in control at the helm screaming at his
    wife to lug and drop the anchor along with its chain and line at
    exactly the right spot?
    
    The most successful sailing couples I know put the woman at the helm
    THE MAJORITY of the time and let the guy do the grunt work like raising
    and trimming sails, mooring etc.  Sailing is a bastion of male
    dominance still where there is this macho thing about being the
    captain, skipper, whatever.  The truly good sailors realize that
    steering is not the place for the skipper.  It is a mechanical function
    that requires too much attention to do other things well.  Even racing.
    Our helmsman has little or no input to where we go or what we do.  He
    just steers the boat where he is told.  Many racing couples should
    develope the woman as the driver, and the man as the crew/skipper.
    I don't like to drive the boat for this reason.
    
    So, there you have it.  Try not touching the helm for an entire weekend
    and see what happens.  I'll bet this works for some of you.
    
    Dave

    RE: "women are the enemy of sailing"
    
    Gee, I hope not.  I think it just has to do with someone's personality. 
    Sailing is for people who have an adventuresome flair for life.  Some
    people's idea of an adventure runs in other directions.
    
    And I agree that it's not an acquired taste.  For the most part, either
    you love it instantly and can't get enough, or you hate it and will
    never be comfortable on a sailboat.
    
    I know plenty of women who love to sail, some more than me even.  About
    40% of our crew are women, and some of them have more savvy and brass
    than a lot of men I know. (So much for stereotyping ...).  But it is a
    predominantly male form of recreation (hopefully that's changing with
    the times), and so it may appear sometimes that women are the "enemy".
    But I think this is a misleading impression.
    
    I think it's the same as skiing ... a lot of women try it because their
    S.O. is into it.  But if they're new at it there's a need for patience
    and understanding that frequently is lacking between S.O.s, at least
    when it comes to recreating together.
    
    If you want to get your spouse unit into sailing, perhaps the best way
    is the "slow and easy" method, and probably learning from someone
    who has not only the knowledge, but the patience, to teach sailing skills
    and to help overcome the fear that comes from orienting yourself in a 
    direction that your body isn't used to (sideways).  I found the best
    way to overcome the fear of tipping over is to start on a small boat,
    tip the damn thing over, and realize it's really no big deal.
    
    Or else find yourself an S.O. who's already into it.  They're out
    there ...
    
    		... Bob
    
    

    As a novice sailing spouse, I would like to offer my view of this
    subject.  First, let me state that I have just completed my 1st
    sailing season - and I am looking forward eagerly to the next! 
    I find it hard to believe that I am an anomaly - but then again
    I also break the rule about teaching old dogs new tricks!!!!
    
    I would like to say that I believe the key here is patience - and
    this is vital on both sides of the equation.  The non-sailor needs
    to build confidence not only in their performance but in understanding
    what's going on and why - this takes time and patience.  In order
    to gain this understanding it requires a patient sailing instructor
    - someone willing to spend the time and energy and not get frustrated
    with the student!  Luckily, I can say that I had a very patient
    instructor who, I believe, thrived on my quest for understanding and
    my constant questioning and showed pride in my successes and patience
    in my failures.
    
    As a previously non-sailing spouse, I would have to agree with a
    previous reply that my initial reasons for pursuing this were because
    it meant so much to the person who meant so much to me!  But I will
    add that it now means alot to me!!!!
    
    

A few years ago, I spent a week at a sailing school in Florida, living 
aboard an O'Day 34 with an instructor, a fellow from Scotland and a couple
from New York.  Bernadette's idea of a 'cruising' vacation was on the QE II.
Bob had somehow managed to get her to attend the cruising school with him.

On the first day out, with barely enough wind to move the boat, it was 
white knuckle city for Bernadette.  All she could do was hang on for dear
life and mutter 'Oh,Oh!!!'.

On the last day, as we were returning to the marina, she was at the helm.
We had more wind than we'd seen all week and were (for us) setting new
speed records.  Instead of 'Oh,Oh'  she was yelling for more wind!

I really believe that having had a chance to learn how to handle the boat
herself built up her confidence.

By the way, she ended up being a better sailor than Bob.

Wayne

    re .27
    
    But do Bob and Bernadette sail together anymore?
    
    - gene

Fortunately, my wife and I enjoy sailing together. We were both sailors when
we met, and considered our first cruise together a crucial test of our
relationship, which fortunately we both seem to have passed.

We have chartered for all of the intervening 11 years (regular readers of this
notes file will know I'm crazy enough to be building a boat, but that's another
story). We try to alternate which of us is the skipper, that is, the person
actually responsible for the boat and the charter arrangements. For that first
cruise, in fact, it was Lois.

Over the years, I've probably developed my skills somewhat more than Lois has,
and we both recognize that as a source of friction. She has tended to relinquish
some tasks entirely to me (such as navigation), and we both see that as
unhealthy, for several reasons:
	- The more I do and the less she does, the less ultimate enjoyment
	  she has in sailing. This must also apply to those whose SO's are
	  minimally skilled.
	- To the extent she has abdicated responsibility to me, my mistakes
	  become disasters which really have a negative effect on her enjoyment.
	  For instance, I made a navigational error which had no actual
	  consequences because I caught it in time (the potential consequences
	  might have been serious). For me, it was a lesson in taking care.
	  It upset Lois far more, for several days, and I surmise that the
	  level of upset was proportional to the extent she was entirely
	  trusting my skills.

Besides physical fear and discomfort, we might do well to be sensitive to this
latter aspect. I think it is easy to fail to appreciate the extent to which this
kind of psychological (and physical) dependence is unsettling and frightening.
Here we have people who to a greater or lesser extent feel their lives are in
our hands, and we expect them to be blithe and cheerful about. Seems unlikely.

Early in our cruising career, Lois used to insist on spending some sailing
time entirely in the company of other women. It provided an experience where
it was much easier to take risks and win confidence than when men - any men -
were around. We agree that she should resume this with the next sailing
season, and essentially reclaim the equality of skills which characterised our
early sailing. (Please don't assume she's become helpless or anything like it -
I'm describing a trend or bias, not a night-and-day difference).

Those of you for whom such an alternative is possible might consider it, even
to the extent of putting your boat entirely in the hands of your SO while you
stay home. Maybe you have the alternative of sending them out with some woman
who is already a competent sailor, or of persuading them to enroll in a sailing
school or course taught by and for women (I've seen two such advertised).

Ross Faneuf

RE .24


   "Our helmsman has little or no input to where we go or what we do.  He
    just steers the boat where he is told.  Many racing couples should
    develope the woman as the driver, and the man as the crew/skipper."

    
    I think your line of reasoning backfired on you. Looks like you put
    the women right back in a submissive role.


RE "Women are the enemy of sailing"

    I hate to see a joke taken seriously. I started my wife sailing with
    Bob B's approach; we went out on a Sunfish and practiced capsizing. 
    Since then I've never stopped challenging her. She now loves to sail
    and is very good at catching my mistakes. She even thinks the macho, 
    sexist, stereotypical statement above is funny.

   -Paul

    For many seasons my wife steered the Etchells.  The initial reason
    for doing this was to reduce the amount of gratuitous advice given
    to the crew by the original helmsman.  It was just easier to let
    the pompous know-it-all do it himself than to listen to his incessant
    blabbering.  This did have the intended effect of reducing the noise
    several db's.  But the drawback was that the enforced tunnel vision
    required for effective helming deprived Amy of much of what she
    found enjoyable about racing.  "I hate steering.  I want to DO
    something".  
    
    Well, the only two other jobs are middle crew, mostly
    trim and tactics, and forward hand, jib trimming and foredeck. 
    The forward hand's job usually goes to the gorrilla.  Repeated short
    tacks and muscleing the spinnaker pole in heavy air (no lazy sheets
    on an E-22) take big arms.  My wife is 5'2".  But knowledge and good
    timing beats brute force.  She has been more effective there than
    many of the other bigger crew we've had.  When it blows out, she
    gets gets the forward hand's job.  If it's light air, we let the
    crew get some experience there.  But, that leaves old megaphone
    mouth back on the helm.  Maybe we'll try rotating jobs.  Or earplugs.
    
    Steering is an important role but no more so than any other on the
    boat.  In Dave's mooring pickup scenario the one who should be yelling
    is the wife.  "Back it down, straighten out, get your bow upwind,
    do what I tell you!!!"  The chances of our hypothetical couple
    continuing to sail together may not be any better but at least the
    male half won't feel so self-righteous about having to sail on his own.  
    
    
    Acheiving a sufficiently high level of knowledge and confidence
    isn't that easy for the less knowledgeable spouse.  It's probably
    impossible for one to teach the other.  One outfit I saw at the
    Newport Boat Show called "Womanship" does address this situation.
    There are others like it around.  Maybe a worthwhile investment.
    
    - gene

    What I meant was that by giving the helm over you are increasing the
    woman's confidence in the capabilities of the boat without totally
    giving up a measure of control that may be appropriate given the
    differing skill levels.  Once the skill of steering becomes greater in
    the woman you can back off and let her have more say in what is going
    on.  The mechanical aspect I referred to was primarily about racing.
    Gene's note shows what can happen there.
    
    Another solution is the choice of the boat itself.  The parents of two
    of our regular crew own a Freedom 44 (45? 43?) named ARION.  They got
    it when the boys were old enough to have more serious racing interests
    and the two of them were left to themselves.  Requires very little work
    and is very stiff.  They use that boat more than anyone I know.  They
    are out cruising every single weekend and many weeks during the summer. 
    I aspire to that level of comfort some day once this stupid racing gets
    old.  On the other extreme I can't imagine any woman who would want to
    cruise Wildside regularly.  Too many things can go wrong to relax and
    enjoy life.
    
    There is a boat called Deuces Wild, an old Heritage One Ton that races
    semi regularly with an all female crew.  'Course you wouldn't want to
    meet some of those crew in a back alley ;^).
    
    Dave

    Let me start off by saying that I am a woman and I LOVE SAILING!
    
    I was fortunate to have parents who both loved to sail.  Dad bought our
    first boat, a sailfish, when I was eight.  At 10 we moved to a lake in
    Connecticut and the first thing dad bought was a 19 foot Lightning.
    Over the years we accumulated another sailfish and 2 sunfish.  During
    these years we had the opportunity to take sailing lessons, primarily
    from my mother who taught the kids in our yacht club.  She was a
    wonderful teacher, very patient.  Mom and I raced alot in the club
    races and did very well, coming in 2nd one season.  She never yelled,
    always spoke quietly, and we had fun.  Dad, on the other hand, usually
    yelled and was very demanding.  He didn't like mistakes and did not
    like to lose a race, which he did on a regular basis.  He posted a 
    series of sailboat nomenclature charts on the wall next to the toilet
    and we were expected to learn them and learn them we did.  We did have
    an incentive, however, we were not allowed to take our boats out alone
    unless we passed a test.  We were motivated to do well because we loved
    our freedom.  I continued to sail in college but really got into it
    when I moved to Mass in 1980.
    
    In 1980 I first sailed on the ocean, what a trip.  I was slightly
    overwhelmed by the size of winches (dad had itty-bitty ones on the
    lightning) and the miles of rigging on the Hughes 38.  However, I
    quickly began to see that there was a mainsheet, a jibsheet only they
    called it a genoa sheet, the mast was bigger, the boom longer, there
    was a spinnaker which took a while to master, the tiller worked the
    same, and the winches too.  I was fortunate enough to be sailing with
    a friend who was quite laid back and rarely if ever yelled.  I took
    a sailing class that first summer just to assure myself that sailing
    was sailing, only things were bigger on bigger boats.  The next summer
    I took an advanced sailing class at the boston sailing center to learn
    to handle spinnakers.  Two years later I bought my own boat.
    
    I have discovered that I too can yell and scream and bark orders to not
    only women but to men too.  It happens when i'm under pressure, in a
    stressful situation where time is of the essence and the crew doesn't
    know what to do.  I also found out that I yell and scream when I'm
    afraid, for instance when my handicapped boyfriend (now husband) fell
    from the windward rail when we were heeling over to the extreme.
    
    My husband and I tried to sail together and things did improve.  He
    took some lessons but never really took to it like I did.  I prefer
    offshore sailing to cruising, I like to go fast and I enjoy heavy
    weather (maybe not as much at the time, but afterwards thinking back
    on the experience).  As a result I sold my boat a year ago.  I don't
    really miss all the work but on windy sunny days it does hurt a bit not
    to be out on the water.  We chartered for a week last winter in BVI and
    had a super time with a nice balance between sailing, scuba diving (he
    is a diver!), snorkling, and relaxing.  It was still tough on him as
    sailboats are not really designed for the handicapped, except the
    freedom independence, but that is too small for me.  It was also tough
    on me as I got to winch him out of the water numerous times each day.
    
    I always dreamed of finding a man to sail around the world with.  I
    found the right man, but I'll probably never make that trip.  Perhaps
    in another lifetime.
    
    Most of my sailing buddies are women and we all seem to have had the
    same problem, all the sailing men were married to non-sailing women.
    What's the problem?  I believe that the problem is that a sailboat
    cannot handle two skippers, two people fighting for command.  I know
    that on a trip to Bermuda there were 4 skippers on board and it was
    brutal.  I found myself becoming a passenger to keep from getting
    upset.  I don't like taking orders, especially when I don't agree with
    them.  My best sailing buddy abandoned me as her sailing ability
    improved, she wanted to be the skipper and even when I tried to back
    off, I was ultimately in charge and she new it.
    
    I agree with some of the comments in previous notes, I think it is
    difficult for a spouse or SO to learn from their partner.  The ego is
    so fragile.  I recommend to any of you who have children to get them
    started early and make it a fun experience.  Maybe if you have little
    girls they will grow up to love the sport of sailing.  Maybe the older
    kids and wives can take lessons somewhere until they gain confidence.
    
    Oh yes, another thing that makes it more enjoyable is to have equipment
    that someone smaller than a gorilla can use.  I worked out with weights
    and found that my Freedom 32 could still be tough work (and that is
    probably the easiest boat in the world to sail!).  The Hughes 38,
    however, had undersized winches and after a full day of tacking upwind
    with just myself and my friend Robin on board (she was the helmsman), I
    found myself exhausted.  Even though a woman may be able to handle the
    helm easier than the winches, etc, I believe that it is important to
    trade off so that she becomes familiar with all aspects of sailing
    (including navigation).  Fear of the unknown can wreck all possibility
    of converting a non-sailor.  Practice on less windy days all the points
    of sail, dropping and picking up anchor, navigation.  Practice in 
    easy weather and work up to the windy days when the stresses increase.
    
    I wish all of you men who want your wives or SOs to sail the very best
    of luck.  I think it will take lots of love and patience but the
    couples I know that sail well together have such wonderful lives.  I
    hope that maybe someday we'll try it again, I still have a 97 year
    lease on my slip in RI!
    
    	Pam Rickard

    I started sailing about nine years ago and my wife joint a year later.
    She loves sailing and spent our vacation every year dowm in the Med.
    What  might make a difference is that she is not my deck hand. She has
    all the knowledge, does navigation, steering etc. She likes the warmer
    areas and even I would like to go once to Scandinavia I feel whe and so
    both of us would not enjoy it. Try this.

There is, I think, a very fundamental issue regarding sailing that has
been only indirectly discussed or alluded to so far. Quite simply,
sailing isn't always safe -- there are all too many ways to be injured
or killed or even just uncomfortable while sailing. And danger and
discomfort create fear and anxiety. 

Each of us copes with fear and anxiety differently. One way of coping is 
to simply avoid those activities that frighten us (though few of us are 
honest and/or self-aware enough to admit that this is what we're doing).
Another way is to develop skills (such as navigation, sail handling,
etc) that lessen the perceived danger. Unfortunately, developing skills
may not be enough for some people. 

Sailing offers seemingly endless opportunities to learn and improve a 
wide variety of skills. This is one of the positive aspects of sailing. 
But the negative aspects can be somewhat to extremely negative. For 
example, being the sole person on deck many miles offshore in the cold
hours before dawn can be vaguely discomforting for even an experienced
sailor and downright intimidating for a novice. Sailing also occasionally 
confronts us with dangerous or threatening situations with which we must
cope quickly and successfully. Since outside assistance is rarely if
ever immediately available, we must cope on our own. This requires
considerable confidence in our own abilities and a willingness to accept
(possibly continual) anxiety and occasional outright fear. Not everyone
is able to do this. 

Those of us who really enjoy sailing tend, I suspect, to not worry
overly much about the dangers of sailing for we are, as a whole,
self-reliant and self-confident people. Someone who lacks self-confidence, 
self-reliance, perseverance in the face of difficulty and the unknown,
etc, may never feel comfortable about sailing in spite of having
considerable sailing experience or being actively involved in the
management of the boat. 

I wonder whether ability to swim has anything to do with willingness to sail?
I bought a Jetwind (similar to a Sunfish) and learned to sail by taking it
out on a windy lake and alternately sailing, turtling, and righting it until
I got the hang of keeping it right-side up most of the time. Obviously,
I wouldn't have tried this if I weren't a good swimmer.

As a swimmer, the water immediately around the boat is not scary to me. (I
do have a healthy respect for the dangers of falling overboard...) If I
couldn't swim, I imagine that the water would seem inherently dangerous,
much like looking down from the top of a tall tower. 

Are there any non-swimming sailors (or ex-sailors) out there that can comment
on this?

    RE .35
    
    Then again Alan, some people just don't like sailing.  I can see your
    point, but I guess it boils down to what you perceive as dangerous.
    
    I know a person, for example, who won't go out in a sailboat of any
    size in more than about a 15 kt breeze.  But she has no qualms about
    jumping a horse over a fence at full speed.  Now, I would tend to see
    the latter as a LOT more dangerous than the former.
    
    Her reason doesn't have do do so much with the inherent dangers as
    simply the fact that she doesn't enjoy sailing as much as most of us
    do.  So going out and struggling with a pitching deck, possibly getting
    wet and cold in the process, simply isn't worth the effort as far as
    she's concerned.
    
    I think it's not a matter or danger, or a lack of self-confidence.  A
    person may try sailing in order to please their significant other, and 
    either immediately or eventually come to decide they'd rather spend 
    their time doing something else.  I know plenty of self-reliant people
    who are into hobbies that may be considered dangerous who couldn't be
    talked into sailing.  Their loss, as far as I'm concerned ...
    
    ... Bob
    

>>I wonder whether ability to swim has anything to do with willingness to sail?

	I sail on the Downeast coast.  The water is COLD.  If you are not
with a couple of minutes swim of a dock or shore, you loose.  Upon boarding
a fellow Downeast sailor's boat, he said: 'If you fall overboard, your dead.
We will make every effort to pick you up, but dont count on success'.

	I hear that lobster fisherman dont bother to learn to swim.  I have
seen survival suits on at least one lobster fishermans's boat.

	I have also heard of people surviving by climbing up on a navigation
buoy, I consider that an absolute last resort only if the boat sinks.

	My not being a strong swimmer puts my emphasis on staying out of the
water where it belongs Downeast.

	
	Dave 

        What a note!
        
        "Womanship" has a slogan,  "NO HOLLERING"  (a real message there)
        
        I agree with a theme I read here, "Start Small, Start Near Shore,
        Start With Low To Moderate Wind!"
        
        I am one of these truly blessed with a Sailing Wife!! We actually
        started our 'nautical' lives together by canoeing. You learn
        quick that shouting gains nothing, in fact you loose. She would
        just stop with the paddle! Trying to move as eighteen foot canoe
        loaded with camping gear into the wind all by your self can get
        old real fast.  
        
        I suspect that the desire/need to be 'in charge' or 'in control'
        may be in most sailors. We either learn to deal with it or become
        solo sailors.
        
        Fred "First Step"

re .37:

Bob, 

I'm not suggesting that fear is a factor in every case, but it is 
in at least some cases. Fear and anxiety are not necessarily rational, 
and they can be overwhelming. (Sadly, I know well a person for whom this 
is true.) All that has been said about learning to sail in good
conditions, etc, is excellent advice. My point is that some people,
because of fear, will never feel comfortable sailing. Some people will
never feel comfortable about sailing for other reasons. 

Alan

    OK spouse.   I'm doin' it, see.
    
    My wife has been on my case about not replying to this note.   She's
    anticipating this as some sort of circumstantial evidence that will 
    let her peer into my soul.   Women like to peer into their man's
    soul.  I've never understood what they expect to see in there that
    isn't already on your sleeve.   I think it's just one of those woman
    things that a man will never understand.
    
    Anyway, here goes.  I have a love of sailing that I don't fully
    understand.  It's a love of all the little things; the smell of
    the sea, the feel of a salt hardened line in a cold hand, the taste
    of salt, the cold biting wind.   It's a love of the detail and the
    lack of it.  It's the sweet curve of a sheer line or a wine glass
    hull.   There's the total exhaustion of a long beat, and the
    exhileration of finding your way in a pea soup fog.

    We started sailing in boat yards.  With boat yard sailing you can
    touch a crusty hull or run your hand down a salted aluminum spar.
    You can attach yourself to the smell and weight of it.  You can
    heft a turnbuckle or see yourself in brightwork.  There's no threat
    in a boatyard but there's learning there.   
        
    I don't know why I love sailing anymore than I know why I love her.
    If the people who are important to you are going to love it they
    have to love it at the same level.   They can't love the destination
    if you love the journey.   I think my spouse knows this and did
    all along.   Sadly, I can't take credit for teaching her.   No,
    I think she probably knew what I'm saying now and just used my eyes
    for a while to find her own 'little things'.
    

    Well what a variety of insights.  I almost completely destroyed any
    interest my wife may have had in sailing during our early learning
    phase.  I had got bit real hard with the urge to sail after a chance
    harbor cruise with a workmate.  We ended up obtaining a small daysailer
    for a summer which I wanted to use every spare moment, knowledge or
    not.  The first few times we went out were disastrous.  I wanted to rip
    around the lake and test things out and Ann kept screaming to keep the
    boat from "keeling over".  I though to myself there was no sense of
    adventure, she though I was after the insurance money.  I ended up doing 
    most of my sailing alone and our respective experience levels quickly
    became disparate.  Since this time, I have learned that our relative
    learning styles are comlpetely opposite.  Mine is "let's do it and see
    what happens"  and hers is more structured and paced.  Learning this
    helped tremendously in the long run.  Consequently, I agreed to go with
    her on a weekend charter prep course prior to our first bareboat as the
    captain.  It turned out to be a great experience for both of us and it 
    boosted her skills and confidence tremendously.  Three years later we 
    still sail together as often as possible but her work as a realtor 
    doesn't allow for alot of free weekends.  I even got her to race with 
    me on Lake Champlain this year which she enjoyed.  The big lesson I 
    learned was to let her set her own pace for learning and not to coerce 
    her into uncomfortable situations.  Today she doesn't mind if we bury 
    the rail occasionally and does not fear for the boat tipping over.  Her 
    biggest complaint now is that I don't show her enough about what is 
    going on.  I like the suggestion several back about letting her call the 
    shots for once.  I know Ann has the skills for the sailing we do.  I 
    think it was key that she was even willing to give it a try.  If she 
    wasn't one or both of us would probably be very unhappy today.  Now if 
    we could only get the skiing down......   

    I don't own a boat, yet I sail on friends boats - a Hunter 38 (Leda)
    and a F______ 41 (Gambler).  I've only done day sails on Gambler,
    and have done afew overnight trips on Leda.  What keeps me from
    enjoying sailing more than I do is the feeling of claustrophobia
    I get, expecially when off-shore.  I hate the feeling of knowing
    that I am limited to pacing 20 steps back and forth on the deck.
    On these overnight voyages, I start going absolutely nutso if I'm
    not allowed off the boat when we get into port at night - I just
    can't stand being cooped up for so long.
    
    I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact that I'm an active
    person - my weekend activities usually involve outdoor activities
    where I'm moving around - bicycling, hiking, skiing.  I can't even
    stand being cooped up in my own house for a Saturday afternoon.
    In fact, I can't even sit still in my workstation for more than
    an hour or two.
    
    My SO is always talking about a boat in our future.  It's fine with
    me, as long as he allows me to get off every 12 hours.

    	-Nancy

    re: 1351.43
    Nancy, just look at it this way: When you are ski-ing, you are limited
    to just about five feet with your boots bolted in place.  Where you go
    ski-ing or sailing is up to you! Good luck!

    The matter is so intriguing that, even if after long time after
    last reply, I want to put my two cents in.
    
    Let me say that (as for other notes I've read) I learnt a lot
    and mainly appreciated Pam's note as (on the other side) I've
    the same problem: my partner is handicapped and can't do a lot
    of work aboard of a racing Snipe; moreover she's not able to swim
    or even to float and she risked to drown in the swimming pool when
    she was younger; moreover again she was born in Rome (no sea) and
    me in Naples; no one in her family ever sailed, no sailing background
    at all. On the other side I fell in love with a Star (that I never
    sailed) when I was 5 (five) and was completely captured from then.
    I started on various 33 footers (old RORC III class), on Colin Archer's 
    ketches even singlehanding when I was 19. That's just to explain the
    enormous difference of backgrounds.
    
    6 years ago we started together and 5 years ago I showed her Orsera
    (my 24 Snipe-love); the 1st time everything was O.K., light breeze,
    only the jib, calm lake, sunny day, no heeling.
    Well, then came the 2nd time, main and jib, light air, nice sailing...
    and a sudden North storm that in a ten minutes made Bracciano Lake
    (57 sq.kmtrs) black in the sky and white on the surface; no problem,
    I said, we'll be back in 10 mins., and the boom broke the link on
    the mast. Well, t'was a little mess and she could have had all good
    reasons not to come aboard again, but she still does it even if she
    states that "the b....y Snipe is one of the most unconfortable stupid
    boats I ever saw! etc.".
    At the very beginning she was terribly worried when we started heeling
    after 10 deg, now she's much more confident (perhaps because I'm
    getting fat and the boat heels less and comes back easier) and she
    has started appreciating my ear-to-ear smile when Orsera runs under
    a good South Easter (libeccio) and I'm outboard in a cloud of foam. 
    
    O.K. probably I'm lucky (and I'm sure I am) but nonwithstanding all
    the problems I know she's looking forward to a cruising tri as much
    as I want it and she contributes to the definition of the base re-
    quirements for a suitable, confortable boat and I'm trying to invent
    the easiest way to have a good helmsman and not only a passenger.
    
    What can I say else? I love her (Cinthia? Orsera? who knows) and she
    loves me enough to understand that sailing is important for me even
    if she prefers canoeing and she only asks to stay more confortable
    aboard i.e. a bigger boat (God only knows when).
    
    Ciao a tutti!
    Arrigo
     

    Arrigo
    
       The latest issue of SAIL magazine has a whole section on Boats
    for the Handicapped. There was even one designed specifically for
    this job. As I remember, it was about 24 feet long and had a 8 ft
    beam to make it very stable and to keep it from heeling much.
    
        It has a trick helmsman seat that is on a pivot and is counter
    weighted to allow a handicapped person to tack without much effort,
    nor being slammed into the other side. 
    
        The said they took the boat and filled it with water. Then they
    took it out in 40 mph winds to see what would happen. It worked fine
    and couldn't be rolled without someone climbing out on the mast to 
    induce it.
    
        Sounded pretty bullet proof. You are lucky to have such a brave
    soul as crew.
    
          john

    John, maybe you'll never know what you risk to start with your
    reply. I could hear her grin trough the phone when I read her
    your answer! She apparently is very calm but she sounded real-
    ly excited.
    I read in various magazines about such kind of boats but never
    saw one; I started thinking that kind of counterweighted pivot
    seat about two years ago (of course not on the Snipe) and I'm
    happy to know that someone has saved me a lot of work.
    
    O.K. thanks, but pls be so kind to let me know which month
    issue of SAIL it is as some friends of us will come from LA
    to Ita next Sept. and I'll ask them to pick it up for me.
    
    Any further detail will be greatly appreciated if not too trouble.
    
    Ciao e grazie. 
    Arrigo / Cinthia
    
     

    BTW re. 45
    
    South Easter IS NOT "libeccio" (SW) but "scirocco" the name's
    origin being "libeccio" from Lybia (SW of Ita) and "scirocco"
    or "sirocco" from Syria (SE of Ita).
    Same for "grecale" or "greco" from Greece (NE of Sicily that
    was an ancient Greek colony).
    "Maestrale" or "maestro" from NW is the master or main wind
    on Italy W coast.
    
    
    Hmm... Alan B. I'm afraid you'll kindly have to move this
    reply to the right topic (if one); sorry & bye.
    A.
    

    Just to keep tight to the real topic:
    
    I think that we must consider some arguments about non sailing
    spouses;
    a) don't know if I'm wrong but, reading from various books,
       I assume that sea (and, logically, sailing) has always
       been a men's matter, a hard life, risky, dangerous, some-
       times deadly. Ancient sailors used to spend most part of 
       their lives far from family, wives, kids, and many, many
       times indeed they never came back home. So sea (and sailing 
       then) can be considered something that creates unsafeness,
       danger, loss, death. Consider a fisher's family: how many
       of them, be either sons, fathers, husbands, could die on
       duty leaving a woman in misery and ruin?
       This do can have created women's feeling vs sailing/seagoing.
    
    b) Carried by point a): what's this strange thing that makes me
       risk to loose whom I love? What's this strange mess of wood,
       canvas, iron and so on, that gives so many troubles and which
       he anyway loves, cares? Why is it so important to him?
       Why he doesn't love and care me the same way?
    
    So we have two different feelings: jealousy and unsafesness,
    both originating on ships (and they do were sailing ships).
    
    Well: who's not guilty of having dedicated lots of time to his
    boat, sometimes in a maniacal way, for doing something she can't
    understand, something that can be boring, or rough, or hard, or
    dangerous, something I can't understand? 
    If any, throw the first stone...
    
    I agree with those who succeded in the right way: convincing
    them to understand, but... what's the right way to the right 
    way?
    
    Ciao a tutti.
    A.
    

    re. 49 somewhere:
    
    pls read
    
    >> dangerous, "something I (a woman) can't understand?"

    re .47
    
       Arrigo
    
       It's the July issue of SAIL magazine. The boat is a Freedom (a well
    thought of brand). The article says they are working with the Shake a
    leg foundation in Newport R.I. . I have a race down there later
    this year and it is a benefit for the Shake a Leg foundation. I will
    try and get you some more information on it then.
    
      Does someone out there may know of the address for freedom yachts ?
    
       john
    

    The 1991 NYNEX boaters yellow pages lists Freedom Yachts at 225
    Alexander, Portsmouth, Me.(sic)  The phone number is a Rhode Island #
    401 683-3500. 
    
    djc 

    This reply could also be appended to 1283 (Multihulls) as the
    "brave soul" (as John said) as tried the taste of mustard and
    enormously enjoyed it.
    Last saturday, in the afternoon, she has accepted to come out
    on a cat on the lake. I just waited until 5.00 p.m. (usually
    wind strength decreases at that time and we sailed out.
    The results: wind NW 15-20 kn., gusty, waves 2', leaving with
    the main only, crossed the lake (5 miles) in 20 mins. more or 
    less. And, you'll ask, what did she do or say?
    
    "WHEN DO YOU SELL THAT (MARVELLOUS) STUPID SNIPE AND BUY A CAT?"
    
    "IT'S REALLY FANTASTIC"
    
    No comments else.
    
    Arrigo