Conference unifix::sailing

    The upper and lower shrouds on my 19 year old boat are the original
    and don't show any apparent corrosion.  Backstay, forestay, and
    all wire halyards, lifts, and guys have been replaced at least once.
    In the case of the main and jib halyards, replacement has been every
    few years due primarily to damage from handling.  Never had a problem
    with any swaged fitting except the cost of replacing it (lots $$$)
    when some other part of the stay went.
    
    I've seen galvanized wire used only on halyards.  The theory is
    that stainless colds works and stiffens and will eventually fracture
    at the most inoppurtune time.  Galvanized isn't supposed to do that.
    Galvanized is also cheaper which can be a consideration even on
    a small boat if the halyard is going break from other causes anyway.
    
    On a larger boat with lots of standing rigging the economics pretty
    much dictate galvanized.   With larger sized wire, splices rather
    than swages are used.  These are labor intensive and require stringent
    manintenance.  I was present at the launching of a newly built
    traditionally designed wooden boat last year.  Three big bronze
    turnbuckles on each side attached to swaged SS wire held the mast
    up.  Deadeyes might have been more appropiate but the owner was
    more interested in having the mast stay where he put it.
    
    The epoxy and insert type of fittings are amenable to DIY but I
    don't know if they're any more resistant to corrosion.  They're
    not cheap.  They maybe useful to have on board as a repair item.
    But it will be necessary to carry some extra wire too.  If a swaging
    breaks, the wire it's on will be too short to reattach.  It'll be
    necessary to replace the whole wire.  One trick for fixing broken
    wire I've read about, but never tried, is to tie a knot in it and
    extend it with whatever line is available.  This is supposed to
    work even on 1x19 standing rigging.  But after it's tensioned, the
    knots is in forever.
    
    I sailed one time on boat with galvanized halyards.  The rust does
    get all over your hands and eventually clothing and sails as well.

    My very traditional teak ketch has stainless 1x19 wire shrouds and
    stays attached to bronze turnbuckles.  All of the joints are hand
    spliced over cast bronze thimbals, then parceled with stainless wire
    and finally served with tared marlin.  The rigging was done before
    I got the boat and is now about 8 years old.  Everything is still
    perfect, showing no signs at all of wear or deterioration.  Every
    year I remove 3-6 servings and check out the condition of the splices
    and check to make sure nothing has started to fracture or corrode.
    I then re-serve the splices I inspected and re-tar all splices.
    (the tar smells great). 
    
    My understanding is that this (being very labor intensive) is by
    far the most expensive rigging method to have done.  However, it
    is a method which anyone, given strong hands, patience, a good pair
    of gloves and a rigging vice can do themselves.  From what I hear,
    hand splicing, if done right, is the strongest splicing method
    available and is also the most flexible (the splices can take a
    lot more bending close to the splice than a swaged fitting).  I
    know that my rig is enormously strong, is relatively maintenance
    free and looks good too.  Why not look into it? 

Sta-Lok and Norseman fittings (all mechanical) are easily installed (all
you need is two wrenches and a sharp hacksaw) and are stronger than the
stainless steel wire. And they are reusable except for the inner cone.
Cost is perhaps a bit more than a swage (when you get them at a
discount) but they are reported to be considerably more reliable.
Essentially no maintenance either. I used Sta-Loks to replace the swaged
forestay and intermediate backstays fittings on my boat. 

    re: all
    
    Thanks for the replies.  I have a few comments and (as always) more
    questions.  My surveyor suggested hand splicing as the best choice
    for terminations.  In a rope splice I think you end up with 90-95%
    of the original breaking strength.  I've never seen a number for
    wire though.  Anybody have one?
    
    Most of my rigging is 7x19 3/8" stainless.  The prices for just
    one end of this size wire are astounding.  Sta-locks are $45.00,
    turnbuckles are about $80.00, and toggles are in the $20.00 area
    if memory serves me.  Does anyone have a good source for this kind
    of hardware.
    
    I think I will let the compression sleeves go until they show more
    signs of wear than they do now.  Then as they look bad I will go
    to a splice on the existing wire and use extension forks to get
    the proper length back.  Is this a decent strategy or is it more
    sensible to chuck the whole wire when any part of it looks suspicious?
    
    A final question.... Any comparisons on the relative price of
    galvanized versus stainless wire?

Defender Marine claims to have the lowest prices on Sta-Lok fittings, 
Merriman bronze turnbuckles, etc. Their service is poor (to be kind). 

Another traditonal alternative is bronze socket fittings into which
molten zinc is poured around the wire. Once the zinc hardens, the
fitting is supposed to be stronger than the wire. Since these things are
used for elevator cables, they are probably quite reliable. New Found
Metals in Seattle is a supplier (see any issue of Wooden Boat for an
advertisement). As I recall, the fittings are not terrible expensive.
Certainly faster and easier than splicing (and cheaper if you have to 
pay someone to do the splicing). 

By the way, are you sure your rigging is 7x19? Most standing rigging is 
1x19. 7x19 is used for running rigging (more flexible but somewhat less 
expensive than 1x19). By the way, the breaking strength of 3/8" 1x19 
wire is about 17500 pounds, and the breaking strength of 3/8" 7x19 is 
around 12000 pounds, which is slightly less than the breaking strength 
of 5/16" 1x19 wire. If your rigging really is 7x19, you could change to 
5/16" 1x19 and perhaps save considerable money. 

>>>    I think I will let the compression sleeves go until they show more
>>>    signs of wear than they do now.  Then as they look bad I will go
>>>    to a splice on the existing wire and use extension forks to get
>>>    the proper length back.  Is this a decent strategy or is it more
>>>    sensible to chuck the whole wire when any part of it looks suspicious?
    
Trouble is, they may break before they look bad. Before making a long 
offshore passage, I inspected my rigging carefully. Everything looked 
fine. At the end of the passage I found a broken strand of 1x19 wire at 
a swage fitting. Admittedly stainless steel wire is horribly expensive 
(3/8" 1x19 is in the vicinity of $2 per foot), but I'd replace it all if 
I could afford it. 

    re: .5  hmmmmmmm.......
    
    Good questions.  This boat is not in my hands yet so I can't easily
    verify the wire type.  I'm going from memory on 2 test sails (nice
    owner).  I'm pretty sure that it is 7x19 though.  Given your
    information on strength of 1x19 5/16" I am tempted to ask another
    question.  Why would the boat be rigged with wire meant more for
    flexible applications?  Could it simply be that somebody got a deal
    on this stuff or are there more subtle advantages?
    
    The larger question is.... what would be a good way to determine
    an appropriate size based on rig data?  What if this boat is needlessly
    over rigged for offshore work and its offshore days are over?
    
    

Well, since I don't how the boat is actually rigged ...... The 
stays/shrouds on many older wooden boats are attacted to the mast by 
splicing an eye in the stay/shroud around the mast. A block of wood or 
groove in the mast keeps the spliced eye from sliding down the mast
under load. I don't recall the rules for minimum bend radius for the
various kinds of wire. For 1/4" 1x19 wire the minimum radius is on the
order of 3" (implying a minimum mast diameter of 6"). The minimum radius
is much less for 7x19 wire. If the boat is rigged as above, this is
probably why 7x19 wire was used. 

The approximate rule I've heard is that the breaking strength of the 
fore and back stays and upper shrouds should be at least equal to the 
displacement of the boat (eg, a breaking strength of 12000 pounds for a 
12000 pound displacement). This may assume a modern, high aspect ratio 
rig, and perhaps less strength is needed for a low aspect ratio. There 
are several books available that discuss this or call a spar maker.

    I never thought of the radius as a driver for the wire type but
    it makes more sense than anything else.  The upper part of the stay
    is attached as you described (with a big loose splice in a groove)
    with lots of radius.  The lower part however is around a galvanized
    thimble which (big guess now) is no more than 2 inches I.D.
    
    The thimble could explain the need for 7x19 instead of 1xXX.  Maybe
    the previous rigger traded off swaging costs against cable costs
    to arrive at the current configuration.  I think a letter to the
    builder might reveal the original specs and is probably well worth
    the postage.

FWIW,  PUFFIN had 7x19 shrouds, spliced in big loops that were placed over 
the masthead and held from slipping by a pair of little (4" x 1/2") bronze
dogs through-bolted on each side of the mast near the peak.  

Being a gaff ketch, she was definitely "traditional tech", and quite
surely overrigged, since she theoretically could fly full sail without any
shrouds in winds up to 20kts or more -- thanks to a mainmast 10" dia at
the partners.  Wire size just never seemed an issue.  ;-).

J.

    All of the old boats Ive been around used 7x wire, not the 1x for
    hte reason of splicing- I dont think you can splice 1x19 wire.
    
    Id have a talk with an outfit called  "The Rigging Gang" They usually
    advertise in WoodenBoat. The owner came to our TSCA meeting last
    year and gave a GREAT talk on tradditional rigging. I believe he
    really knows his stuff, and more importantly, knows how to get the
    material thats so hard to come by these days. Although I had always
    assumed from their ads they only did the massive rigging jobs, Like
    Pride of Baltimore of Spirt of Mass, they do small jobs for private
    owners.

    This may be more legend that true, but an oldtimer once told me
    a story to favor spliced wire over swaged or other end fittings.
    
    On large (read HUGE) cranes, the main stays to the boom are a pair
    of wires up the back called 'hog rods' Because cranes use various
    combinations of boom length, the hog rods need to be made in sections
    and joined, so a typical crane has up to a dozen or more joints
    in the hog rods. The wire can be 2-3 inch stuff, so splicing them
    is not cheap. When the swaged fittings first started to be available
    Manitowc tried them. A big demo was set up for some important people.
    One of the joints failed and the whole boom collapsed in a heap.
    Many years later Manitowc still used spliced joints on all hog rods.

    The real advantage of spliced joints is lack of surprises- you can
    quite simply inspect the splice and be reasonably confident of its
    condition. Looking at other fittings you cant really tell much about
    its strength, except for very obvious things like broken strands
    or major corrosion. Without X-ray or Magna flux or other testing
    procedure how do you know there isnt some internal problem?