Conference unifix::sailing

    I have looked into the ForeSpar EZ Furl system just recently through
    BOAT/US.  I was hoping to get a discount on it, but was unable to.
    EZ-Furl is very expensive at list price for what it is.  I was quoted
    $2850 for a 30' Luff EZ-Furl from ForeSpar.  Plus shipping and 
     installation. The extrusion and rod are fairly simple and the control
    lines are standard.  Their price seem very inflated.
    
    They felt that the system was not easily owner installable and pushed
    for a rigger or spar maker to do the work.
     
    At this attitude I rebelled and will go without for the meantime.
    
    The mainsail modifications could be substantial.  They actually
    recommend a new mainsail sewn to their specs.  If the foot rise
    is not correct it will not roll tightly and jam in the extrusion.
    You will have to eliminate all battens and probably need a slight
    negative roach to eliminate the flutter of a straight leach.
    
    I would be interested to hear more about what you are doing on this
    project.  The EZ-Furl unit definitely looks like the best alternative
    to a new Stow-Away mast.

    Best of luck,
    Jeff
        
    

    You might check into Hood's Stow-away boom system.  It looked like
    it has possibilities for the do-it-yourself'r (with the help of
    a sailmaker for lufftape mods).
    
    Walt

    I wanted to give an update on the Fore Spar EZ Furl mainsail furling
    system.  I think it is the greatest system I have seen and, so far,
    totally trouble free.  The installation is non trivial.  An extrusion
    is attached to the trailing edge of the entire mast and the gooseneck
    is replaced.  
               
    The kit from Marine exchange cost $1900 although I understand it
    has gone up a couple of hundred since last December when I ordered
    it.  The new main cost $615 from Blackwood and Johnson and is a
    work of art.
    
    The good news is I now completly furl and reef just by pulling on
    one of the two lines from the cockpit and is that ever great.
    
    The bad news is there is a reduction in sail area of about 15% because
    they have to cut the sail with a negative roach to faciltate the
    lack of battons and the smooth furling.  I feel this is small price
    to pay for the crusing sailor and since most of the drive comes
    from our 150% roller furling genoa I see no detecable difference
    in performance.  In some ways sail trim and shape is easier with
    the loose footed main.
    
    In any event we will give the system a real test as we are now
    departing on a one year cruise to the Caribbean on our Siedelmann
    34, Tranquility.  
    

    >>> An extrusion is attached to the trailing edge of the entire 
        mast and the gooseneck is replaced.  
               
Huh? I am unfamiliar with this system, but if the extrusion is attached 
to the trailing edge of the entire mast, how can you possibly roll the 
sail around it? Do you mean that the extrusion is attached (top and 
bottom) along the trailing edge of the mast? How much luff sag does the 
system have? 

    The extrusion is a circular cross section with a slot running the
    entire length for the sail to enter.  There is also an extruded
    tube inside the above extrusion which is the rotating member that
    the sail is rolled around.  The major advantage of this system is
    that as the luff trys to pull away from the mast the inner tube
    (which has a slot for the luff rope of the sail) is pulled up against
    the outer extrusion and therefore does not ruin sail shape or place
    excessive bending loads on the mast.  Most behind-the-mast add ons
    require a highly tensioned luff wire to maintain sail shape.
            

    A boat down the slip from me (a 35' pilot house) has a "after mast"
    roller furling mail unit made by Famet Cruising products called a
    Reefurl. Their brochure showed a Clearwater Florida address with a
    phone number that has since been disconnected. Practical Sailor rated
    this the number one unit in their 5/1/88 edition. Are they still in
    business? I can't find them using directory assistance.
    
    Any new thoughts on add on roller furling mains? The folks who showed
    me theirs chartered their boat in the BVI's and have sailed it their
    and back with rave reviews. It seems to give you infinite feefing
    ability (within the strength of the cloth) and is certainly easier to
    reef than my pig when the bimini is up.
    
    Anyone have additional experience or good hearsay about these types of
    units? Pro's and definite con's against them? The goal is eventually
    circomnavigation if that helps temper the direction of the comments.
    My friends main, when completely out was flat as a piece of paper. When
    I commented on a lack of pocket and possible lack of drive, they simply
    stated that they played with the outhaul and drew it out like a jib if
    needed. Any thoughts on decreased close reaching ability? The
    additional weight aloft? 
    
    My boat is 36', 24,000lb cutter with a I=46.5 a P=41 and a E=16'4".
    Would this give me to big a sail to even consider on one of these
    units? Would I be better off thinking about a full batten main for
    handling abilities (forgeting the reefability?)
    
    Any ideas and thoughts are welcome. I need to look at a new main and
    I'm at least considering the above if it makes sense.
    
    Thanks,
    Robert

re .6:

Well, mainsail roller furling is expensive, and probably/certainly less 
reliable than jiffy reefing. If you're thinking of circumnavigating, 
especially on a limited budget, I think you'll find that there is much 
other expensive equipment that is more important and even essential, 
among which I would include ample ground tackle including windlass and
chain, windvane, liferaft, GPS, SSB, storm sails, engine spares, high 
output alternator and regulator with voltage and current monitors, solar 
panels and/or wind generator, etc, etc, etc. Mainsail roller furling 
doesn't even make it onto my (realistic) wishlist. 

    re. -1
    
    Alan, I agree with your other list. I am in the process of putting some
    of this on/prioritizing the rest. I bring the issue up because the
    after mast, after market units I've seen cost $2-3K for the furling
    unit. The cost of the sail would be about the same either way (roughly
    speaking) if you were going to replace it. So say, if you spend 4 years
    on a cruise, that could be a small additional price for all that extra
    ease of use, blah, blah, blah. 
    
    It's not high on my list, but when I hear of the rave reviews about it,
    I want to at least understand if it should go on my list. I fear the
    scenario of Jamming at the worst possible moment. I've talked to one
    person this happened to. He handed the wheel to his wife and had her
    put if hard over while he went forward and cut the sheets loose  and
    they literally wound it around the mast and tied it down while going in
    circles. Not a fun exercise in bad weather.
    
    If I decide to keep my "traditional" tracked main, why wouldn't I go
    with full battened variety? Sailmakers keep telling me they actually
    keep the sail lasting longer because they don't flog themselves to
    death when luffing, reefing, etc. Are they correct or just trying to up
    the bill?

    Fully battened mains will last longer than conventionally battened
    mains given the same care.  This is because there is no "hinge" along
    the back of the batten pockets on a fully battened main.  However, a
    battenless main lacks a roach entirely and won't flog as much to begin
    with.  Also, batten pockets wear out eventually and always fail at the
    worst possible times.
    
    For world cruising, I would go with the main with the least likelyhood
    of failure.  For me, that would be battenless and of pretty heavy,
    tightly woven material with very little resin on it.  Like I said,
    you'll lose a bit in speed, but the tradeoff is worth it.
    
    Dave

    re: -1.
    
    What would "fairly heavy material be here?". Is it just the fear of
    Murphy wielding his knife at the worst moment or a real potential for
    problems with a full battened main. I'm looking at the issue from an
    ease of reefing and general sailing use standpoint. What other issues
    show I look at here?

    My liveaboard neighbour will not have in mast furling for 2
    reasons.....
    
    1 - The sails are more expensive and harder to replace in the more
    remote parts of the world.
    
    2 - If you get a problem it tends to be when you least need it and
    expensive.....
    
    
    He did say that for a "weekender" like myself he might go for an in
    boom system or simply fully battened main with lazy jacks....
    
    Pete

    Re: -.2
    
    By fairly heavy I mean Dacron or maybe Dacron laminate (with the
    laminate on the inside of two layers of Dacron) that would be 12 to 14
    oz. cloth maybe.  Heavier than I would get for weekend cruising and
    totally different than racing cloth.  More than likely I would go for
    non laminate, tightly woven (expensive!!) material with a soft hand (no
    resin to add strength).
    
    Dave

RE: battenless vs. full-battened mains,

I think Dave's got the wear issue covered well.  The other thing to think 
about is what it could do to your sail area.  A battenless main needs by 
definition to be a roachless main, even a slightly negative roach to cope 
with stretch.  Some boats have enough clearance between backstay and
normal roach to use a full-battened main to add a bit of sail area up
where it can make an important difference.  Or go for a shorter boom, and
have the option of perhaps re-leading the sheeting in a few instances.

Many boats are designed for fully-battened mains because they offer the 
required sail area on a slightly shorter mast and/or shorter boom.  The 
former obviously would open up narrow staying angles an important little 
bit, and add a larger margin of safety in the standing rigging.  (For 
light boats like multis, this saves weight through lighter sections as 
well as shorter lengths.)

J.

    I appreciate everyone's input. After reading them and reading Nigel
    Calder's comments in his latest book on how to fix everything that can
    break on the boat, I'm going to shy away from the roller furling main
    idea.
    
    My backstay clears the back of my book by a good two feet and I think
    I'm going to at least talk to some folks who have had full battened
    mains for some time and learn some more about the wear issue.
    
    I would think that if the batten pockets are made separate and then
    sewed onto the sail, rather than the sail being 1/2 of the pocket, it
    would really help reduce the batten wear in the sail. Perhaps I'm
    wrong. If I went with a full battened main, I also think I'd ask about
    having an additional pocket sewn at the base of the sail and loaded
    with an extra batten. This way if I lost one, I'd have a spare and it
    would be as long as the longest one I might lose. I'm assuming they can
    be trimmed (based on Hobie racing experience). 
    
    Anyone else have any opinions?
    
    Thanks,
    Robert

    I added full battens to an existing main.  The sailmaker sewed the
    pockets and necessary hardware righ into place.  I can't imagine how
    you'd lose a batten since they're so darn long.  I DO carry a spare
    batten in the quarter berth, along with one set of spare hardware -
    this isn't stuff you pick up at your typical local Bliss.  Full battens
    are, IMHO, one of the best investments I've made for keeping sail trim
    simple and keeping me in the cockpit as much as possible.  
    
    I also added lazy jacks but that hasn't worked out as well as I had
    hoped.  Even with special roller slugs, the weight of the full battens
    won't let the sail down evenly and I usually have to pull down the
    last third by hand.
    
    On the subject of roller furling.  I just unstepped my 42 ft mast this
    past week and discovered a kink in the forestay.  My furler is a Hood
    810 line drive.  In order to extract the forestay I have to drill out
    14 rivits to disassemble the luff extrusions.  Not something you'd want
    to do under weigh.