Conference unifix::sailing

Skipper Marine Electronics in Chicago carries the EMS line. Skipper 
rates EMS quality as adequate to good. Their ratings are adequate, good, 
very good, excellent, superior, and extraordinary. Skipper wants $670 
for the EMS CKLD knotmeter/log/depthsounder. The same instrumentation 
from Kenyon (good quality) in three instruments is $470. The same 
instrumenation from SR Mariner (very good quality) in two instruments is 
$530. Many more options as your budget expands. Skipper's number is 
800-621-2378. The have been some complaints in Practical Sailor about 
Skipper, though. 

Alan

Alan was polite. EMS is generally considered to be trash.

My boat has Datamarine depth and speed instruments and EMS wind instruments.
They're three years old and the original owner sent the wind direction unit
back to EMS twice in the first year. They didn't work at all last year when I
bought the boat. 

Hurricane Gloria expedited my desire to do something about the EMS junk when I
lost the masthead unit. At the New England show Anchor Electronics gave me a
fantastic price for a Datamarine Windmachine and loran CDX to fill the two
holes. 

The best catalog prices I've ever seen for these two items is around $1070.
I got them from Anchor for $918 including shipment to a NH friend's address
to avoid sales tax. Anchor's catalog prices are not the greatest but when
you ask for a quote they get very competetive.

Datamarine (and Brookes & Gatehouse) are the best. Some of the others aren't
bad, but PLEASE stay away from EMS.

John

PS: If anybody has a use for my old EMS wind instruments you are welcome to them
for free. Remember, no masthead unit.

For what its worth....I got my Raynav-550 L/C thru Skipper.  No problems
and no complaints here.

Walt

I've head the EMS combined log/depth and wind package for three summers without
any problems...including riding out Gloria in Jamestown R.I. harbor. Got
it all at Marine Exchange in '83 for $800. Of course I did all my own installing
which is often the biggest problem with ANY electrical stuff on a boat...I'll
gladly take that used EMS instrument as a spare...call me at DTN 226-7912
Henk...

RE: .4

I just spoke to Henk and we've determined that my EMS meters are of no
use to him so they're still available.

They are both analog units (not a combined analog direction/LCD digital speed).

Send me mail if you're interested.

TALLIS::RODENHISER

In the Practical Sailor survey, 135 respondents rated Skipper 3.8 on a 
scale of 1 to 5. This is about the middle of the range of ratings for 
the companies with enough responses to be listed. The conclusions drawn 
from the responses are:

	o  repair service slow
	o  overcharge for repairs
	o  misleading advertising
	o  problems returning defective, damaged, or incorrect shipments

Before buying a loran in 1982, I asked Skipper's opinion of the TI9900. 
The person I talked to and the Skipper catalog both described the 
TI9900 as complicated to use and not designed for the inexperienced. 
After trying various loran models at a local dealer, Julie and I 
concluded that the TI9900 was by far the easiest to use of the lorans 
then available. We bought one and have been quite satisfied with it. I 
still haven't seen an easier to use loran.

If you'd like to subscribe to Practical Sailor: 

Practical Sailor, Subscription Department, Box 971, Farmingdale, NY, 
11737. $39 per year, but I think it is worth it. Others don't. 

Alan

Re: .6

I second Alan's opinion of Practical Sailor and also their companion
publication, Better Boat. To be sure, Practical Sailor has an opinion
on everything, and now and then they get a little off base, but the vast
majority of the time they provide useful accurate information. 

I forget exactly what PS said about Skipper but I remember agreeing with it.
Essentially, the rhetoric they use in their catalogs to convince you that they
alone are the only catalog outfit that you can safely buy from is insulting to
my intelligence. Their scare tactics concerning warranty's is mostly false.
Stick with reliable manufacturers and you shouldn't have warranty problems.

I have two experiences with Skipper. The first was when they quoted me a price
$400 higher for the Northstar 800 and the salesperson insisted that I'd have
alignment/accuracy problems if I purchased from my lower source. (I found his
reference to notch filters quite interesting since the Northstar doesn't use
them.) I bought the cheaper one anyway. Not only has the unit worked flawlessly
but last month I took it over to Digital Marine and they upgraded the ROM's for
free. On the other hand, this winter I took advantage of a Skipper excess
inventory flyer to buy a Datamarine A-181 log for under $100. Couldn't beat
that anywhere. 
-----------------

Anyway, as a follow-up to the original note, here is what the PS Gear Survey
concluded when comparing knotmeters. 

(Based on a scale of 1 to 5 with 1 = poor and 5 = superb)
Manufacturer    Rating     Comments
------------    ------     ------------------------------------------
Datamarine       3.70      Datamarine and Signet comprise 40% of the responses
Signet           3.32      
Kenyon           3.28      14% of response; significant number of poor ratings
SR Mariner       3.20
VDO Sumlog       3.10
IMI Combi        3.00
EMS              2.60      Over 40% rate their units poor or fair.

10 other brands, all with a less than 5% response make up the rest of the
responses. 70% of a relatively small number of users rated their B&G units
as superb.

John

I installed an EMS knotmeter on my last boat. It lasted 2 weeks. Was repaired
twice. And is now somebody else's problem. I have all Datamarine electronics
on my present boat. I love it! On the Hardy-scale I'd rate Datamarine a 5.
I'd rate EMS a 0.5. If you don't want to spend much, consider Standard. I
"hear" their pretty good. But, DON'T throw away your money on EMS.

Gary H...