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Conference unifix::sailing

Title:SAILING
Notice:Please read Note 2.* before participating in this conference
Moderator:UNIFIX::BERENS
Created:Wed Jul 01 1992
Last Modified:Mon Jun 02 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2299
Total number of notes:20724

165.0. "Cape Cod to South Carolina?" by MTBLUE::BELTON_TRAVI () Thu Aug 29 1985 19:22

A neighbor is moving to Charleston, SC next Spring and is thinking of sailing
his Hunter 31 from Maine to there vs. having it trucked or selling and re-
buying.  He has asked if I would like to join him.  

I have made two offshore passages in well found boats in July (Annapolis-Cape 
Cod and Annapolis-Bar Harbor) and I have some reservations about his boat.
Let me set that aside for the moment.

My real question is for anyone who has experience sailing south in the Spring,
either Maine to Cape Cod or from Cape Cod on south.  I'm particularly interested
in wind direction and strengths encountered and time of transit you made and
what month you sailed.

Similarly, if anyone is considering a trip from the Chesapeake to RI/Mass.
or Mass. to Maine I'd be happy to supply similar details.

     	-Travis

T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
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165.1PULSAR::BERENSFri Aug 30 1985 13:2710
I would suggest careful study of the pilot charts. They show the long 
term average conditions for each month of the year. I certainly wouldn't 
leave Maine before mid-May, at least for an offshore passage. I have 
seen some rather nasty late spring northeasters in the last few years. 
You might also a professional delivery service for their 
recommendations. I share your reservations concerning the boat. 

Alan


165.2LSMVAX::MEIDELLTue Sep 03 1985 17:5210
  I second all of .1's response. Let me add the caveat that pilot charts are
compiled from reports of commercial traffic. As such, you will generally get
a more optimistic picture (they don't like heavy weather any more than we do,
and usually have the ability to duck it). Also, remember that a pilot chart is
an average of two or three months (I can't remember exactly which), and you
are targeting a rather variable weather season.

  p.s. The $'s spent to make a Hunter capable of a true offshore passage would
       move the boat by truck, and be one hell of a lot safer.

165.3FREMEN::SUITSTue Sep 03 1985 19:5314
I, too, have made several passages offshore.  About half of them went 
smooth as silk.  The other half weren't quite so much fun.  In spite of 
VERY careful preparations conditions arose which, if not dealt with 
speedily and skillfuly, would have been life threatening.

The trip you propose is upwind and up-current during a time in which the 
weather is uncertain.  If you have even the slightest reservations about 
the boat, the captain or your own sanity I suggest you steer clear of it.  
As the previous reply points out - sailing the boat will cost a great 
deal more than having it shipped.

As far as gathering information goes - there are all sorts of books about 
using the Insland Waterway.

165.4RDF::RDFMon Sep 09 1985 00:0123
I own a Hunter 33 whch I consider to be fine for cruising in bays and to
local spots like Marthas Vineyard or Block Island.  I would be concerned
however, with making a passage down the coast as you want.   They are not 
quite as stable as I would like in rough weather and the engine
(a Yanmar 16hp) needs to be cranked up to about 3 grand plus to take you
through any sizable chop.   I like the boat, but then I'm realistic about
it.

Rick

**  Having just come back from vacation at Block Island in August, I laid
    over at Point Judith until morning.   The next day I would have the tide
    with me, calm seas and a 5 to 10 knot SW wind for a leisurely ride back.
    Instead about a half hour out, the wind kicked up to 15 kts, the seas
    4-5 ft and the sky clouded up.   Before I knew it, Bonnie and I were
    in the harnesses and surfing like hell.   It was *fun* trying to keep
    her from broaching until we got in Narragansett bay and relative calm.
    My knotmeter was reading off 10 1/2 knots but when I went back against
    my log and buoy times it figured out at 12+!!!! Quite a ride.  When we
    got into East Greenwich it was a gale with wind speed about 30 knots,
    and 2 reefs in the main giving way to the "iron topsail".   I would *NOT*
    have wanted to test the boat in open ocean and those conditions.

165.5how the trip wentBAXTA::BELTON_TRAVIFri Aug 01 1986 13:02119
I decided to help my friend move his boat, at least as far as Norfolk, and
I thought I'd put in a reply to say how it went.  The actual impetus comes from
Note 372 (stormy Bermuda trip) and my feeling that a comparison of the two 
experiences might be worthwhile.

First, let me thank those who replied, both here in Notes and directly by E-
mail.  The majority of what was said proved to be accurate, in particular the 
comments on the boat not being an offshore boat and the cautions about the 
weather.

Let me state first my reasons for going, then what we encountered, and finally
lessons learned.

The cost of trucking the boat from Portland, Maine to Charleston, South 
Carolina was quoted at $2400.  Add to this the costs on both ends of unrigging,
rerigging, launching, and other etcs and it was going to be a pretty hefty
bill.  The gear added to the basically stock boat was an Apelco Loran and a
Navco Autopilot, plus a few incidentals...total costs about $1500.  These of
course did not make it an offshore boat, but did up the safety factor by some
amount.  (More on what we really needed later.)

Having sailed with the skipper before, I had complete confidence in both his
navigational abilities and his ability to keep cool under pressure.  (We had
previously sailed down Penobscot Bay from Belfast to Owls Head in the fog w/o 
seeing any land for 6hrs on DR only, hitting every buoy.)

The two other crew members had no ocean experience, but one races Lightnings
and the other was a Navy pilot and I thought they would be good crew.

A look at the pilot chart for April and the one for May (they ARE for 
individual months) showed wind directions all around the clock (good chance
they would not be on the nose) and not too heavy.  Percentage of gales was
low, etc.

So I decided to go.  We left Sunday, May 4th bound for the Cape Cod Canal, 
a 24hr run. (We thought.)

Six hours out we ran into 20-25kts on the nose and spent a large part of the
night tacking off of Cape Ann making little progress south.  The lack of a
small headsail hindered our ability to point, particularly in the short, steep
seas (6-8').

Anchored off Plymouth Monday night to get a few ZZZ's and modified our plan
slightly to go to Newport.  A nice fair weather run.  It was like a ghost town
in Newport.

Left there Wed. noon under an ideal forecast...5-15kt NE winds for the next two 
days.  By nightfall, south of Block Is. it was already up to the 15 kts. but
the forecasts hadn't changed.  During the night we gradually reduced sail as the
wind  continued to build.  With just a double reefed main it was becoming
difficult to hold the boat down to almost a run, with the danger of jibing if you
went too far down and the problem of rounding up and being broadside to the
waves if it got up at all.  At about midnight, after one bad jibe and a couple 
of roundups, we got the offwatch to help with getting the remaining sail off.  
This slowed the boat from 7+kts to about 6 1/2 kts.  

Now running before the wind under bare poles we were still going much too 
fast (the waves had built to about 10-12') and the skipper called up the spare 
anchor rode.  We paid off the 300' of 1/2" in a loop off the stern and this 
cut our speed to about 6kts.  The boat seemed more manageable and I think the 
loop of line helped keep the following seas out of our cockpit.

By morning we estimated the winds to be a steady 30-35kts with higher gusts and
the waves to be 12-14' in long regular sets.  We had only one very large wave 
come  aboard over the stern, knocking the helmsperson off his seat and filling
the cockpit.  Dropboards had been in place all night, so no water got below.

As the course we were on downwind was only a few degrees west of our rhumb line,
and the wind was not abating we sailing in this fashion all day Thursday and
through Thursday night.  During this time the NYC and Atlantic City NOAA
stations had upgraded there forecasts from 5-15kts to 5-20kts.

The worst incident was Thursday night when we were about 50mi E of Atlantic
City, when white lights ahead changed to first one sidelight and then both.
I attempted to raise the vessel on VHF (16 and 13) to no avail.  He gradually
drifted off to our right.  Although it was a clear night, it was extremely
difficult to track other shipping as we descended into the big troughs.
Shortly after that I raised Cape May CG to advise them of our Lat/Long, "just 
in case".  (They seemed to appreciate this.)

Friday morning NOAA finally mentioned that there was a gale centered 200mi
SE of us.  We decided to forgo another night on the sea, what with a lee
shore (DelMarVa peninsula) coming up and us still with no sail on the boat
going nearly 6kts and all.  We motored to the mouth of Deleware Bay, entered
the CapeMay Canal and were at the dock by dinner time.

Saturday we talked over our experience, exchanged crew, and I returned home
while the boat continued south without further major incident.

Some thoughts on it all:
     the boat held up fine, no leaks, no gear failures,  etc (this was
my biggest fear, until we had the near head-on in the night)
     the crew began to get exhausted from lack of sleep and lack of food;
it was too hard to eat even sandwiches
     it was numbingly cold; we expected it N of Cape Cod, but not off NJ;
multi-layers of turtlenecks, sweaters, hooded sweats, foulies, wool caps and
mitts didn't do a thing
     the hull form did not give a gentle motion, but rather a slamming one
     we did not have sails to enable us to sail into more than a 25kt wind,
which greatly increased our risks
     the engine is too small to power the boat in strong winds and seas
     during the storm any man overboard would have been unrecoverable
     the Navco autopilot was working great until the control unit got wet, 
then it packed it in; the owner plans to have the replacement unit mounted 
inside his cockpit locker
     NOAA weather is NOT to be trusted;   if it seems like it's getting bad,
it probably is
     the LORAN was a great help because it freed us up from having to worry
about our position (we did have RDF and celestial as backups but using them
and keeping a DR plot would have been a real chore in the storm)
     running off seemed an appropriate storm tactic for this boat under those
conditions
     attention to the helm was critical and we limited each person to 30min 
shifts during the 3hr watches;  we were fortunate that all were able to pull 
their share     
     
It was an experience that I am glad I have had, but would not try to go out and 
get and do not wish to repeat.

165.6NOAA forcast's are for the LONGTAILSJUNIOR::RUSSELLDavid L. RussellFri Aug 01 1986 21:096
    I can appreciate your experience.  I crewed on the stormy Bermuda
    trip, note 372.  I agree with your comment on NOAA.  Our skipper
    had gone all their latest info covering the entire course of our
    trip.  Boy were they wrong!!!  If it's bad, count on it getting
    worse.

165.7different boats behave differentlyPULSAR::BERENSAlan BerensFri Aug 01 1986 21:5613
re .5:

Interesting trip. Thanks for the account. It rather reinforces my
opinion that most of today's racer/cruisers shouldn't be taken offshore.
We sailed our rather heavy Valiant 32 cutter downwind in 30 - 40 knots
and 10' seas for some 12 hours with a double reefed main and a 100% jib
with nary a jibe or broach. Most of the time we were surfing along at 7
to 8 knots. If we hadn't been racing I would have changed down to a 70%
staysail. The boat's motion was comfortable and all four crew were able
to sleep well. On the other hand, in light air .....

Trusting NOAA weather forecasts is a good way to risk your life. 

165.8armchair quarterbackingGRAMPS::WCLARKWalt ClarkMon Aug 04 1986 14:1155
    The following comments are based on my (mainly inshore) experience
    with racer/cruiser (light weight cruising) boats.  I think that
    if one is inclined to sail offshore extensively, it would be prudent
    to choose a robust boat (both strength and displacement) for comfort
    and safety (especially when shorthanded).  The racer/cruisers element
    is mainly inshore, light air sailing.  Taking each into the others
    world involves compromises.  
    
    
    The problem with jibing and broaching, reminds me of my last boat
    which had a small main/large jib and the mast stepped well aft.
    The weather helm was uncontrollable in breezes above 15kts and
    would round up in a following sea/breeze in a snap.  I dont think
    the weight of the boat had as much to do with its handling in a
    breeze as the position of the mast. Sure if she weighed twice as
    much and had a full keel it would have been slower to respond but
    the balance problem would still exist...   My current boat has a 
    fractional rig with the mast well forward. I can adjust the helm 
    to my liking, with the headstay/backstay linkplates, from lee to 
    weather helm.
    
    A friend with a Hunter 34' had severe weather helm, which he cured
    by ignoring the 'yard' tune and adjusted the top of the mast slightly
    forward of the bottom, then applying bend.  He had to shorten the
    headstay (no sweat with the furlers' Norseman fitting) and he put
    split backstays in to control headstay sag without having to put
    excessive standing loads on the rig.   Now I am not a fan of Hunters
    in particular, but his boat was not only a better handler, but it
    was much more comfortable in a following sea when it was pulling
    well.  Since it balanced better he was able to carry his sail more
    effectively and make more speed than before. Even with a big following
    sea, it was fairly comfortable once she was doing 8+ kts. He never
    could sail under main only though.
    
    To an extent my boat (Tartan 33') is similar. If I am under-canvased
    on a run (making less than 7kts) and the seas are fairly steep
    (Buzzards Bay and Rhode Island Sound with a 20kt sou'wester) she
    wallows and I have to steer a lot.  Get enough sail into the act
    so I am making above hull speed (say around 8kts) and the boat steadies
    out nicely.   This is the same technique (carried to extreme) used
    by offshore multihull racers. Keep your speed up and she is manageable.
    
    In 40+ knots, off the wind, I should be able to run with deep reefed
    main alone and maintain the speed I want (I have done it in flat
    water off Fishers Island but not for extended periods offshore)
    without steering problems. The Hunter would still have a strong
    weather helm and would do better under small staysail (storm trysail
    rigged to foredeck padeye and jib halyard) which would move the
    center of effort forward.
    
    Anyway, thanks for the account of the trip.
    
    
    Walt