Conference unifix::sailing

    Brian,
    
    I think we have that article and will look it up tonite and let
    you know tomorrow. 
    
                                                            Betty

	I remember the article from Sailing.  I'd guess 6 months ago.

	Al

    i would also be interested in seeing a copy.
    
    Paul
    

    I have a copy of the article.  If Betty hasn't already provided
    it let me know.
    
    Rick
    

    I recall an article on replacing portlights I think.  Since we
    subscribe to Sail and, on occasion, p/u a copy of CW, I'll look
    for it.  Sometimes my husband extracts these articles or Xeroxes
    a copy and puts them in a folder.  However, he is on the West Coast
    (San Diego--real hardship) on biz.  So, I'll look for it and hopefully
    when we chat, I'll remember to ask him.
    
    However, if someone DOES send you a copy, will you pls. post in
    this note that you have it so I don't go combing through the paper
    chase for it.  Good luck--sounds like a serious winter project.
    
    Croozin'
    
    Gail

    Brian;
    
    I've been out for a couple of days, sorry for the delay.  Paul
    and I both looked for the article but naturally it was in the 
    mags we just cleaned out about a month ago.  Sorry, but I am
    glad someone else was able to come up with it.
    
                                                     Betty

    Rick,
    
    I received the article thanks! Just what I was looking for.  The issue
    is the July 1988 SAIL if anyone else is interested.  I willalso be
    happy to send out a copy if anyone needs one.  Once again, thanks!
    
    Brian

Somebody told me there's some info about port replacement in a Practical
Sailor perhaps 2-3 months ago. Perhaps including name and address for a
supplier for ports, located in Canada.

Does anybody recall the article and/or know who the supplier is? A phone number
would also be helpful.

Thanks, 

--RS

    Was the November 1 issue.  One of the editors bought a C&C33.
    
    First they tried a number for C&C in Canada; 416-468-2101. Not much
    help.
    
    GO Industries, Calif., 714-837-8241, makes a lot of them, but the
    author thought the price might be high, and delivery not quick enough
    for them.
    
    So one of the ports got buffed by them, with 1800 thru to 8000 grit
    sheets. (What's 8000 grit... a Kleenex?)
    That was from Micro Surface, 319-732-3390.
    
    Gray gasketing material from  Bristol Marine, Ltd, 416-891-3777.
    
    Rubber molding: Beclawat Canada Inc, 619-294-8630.
    
    They went looking for something tougher than the stock acrylic, like
    Lexan, but ended up canning that due to availability(due further to
    unworkability... that stuff's brittle!). 
    
    Hope your frames are OK!!
    
    Let us know how it goes.
    
    Scott.

    It was with great amusement that I read the tale of the C&C 33
    portlight replacement in Practical Sailor. I felt like I could have
    written the story for them as I just did the same job on my (former)
    C&C 26 this past spring. 

    I too called C&C, spoke to the aforementioned Keith Moore and was
    refered to Beclawat. When I spoke to Beclawat though, they were very
    helpful: their suggestion was to remove my old frames, go down to my
    neighborhood glass shop, and let them replace the old acrylic with
    Lexan.

    My only real problem was the fact that the old frame cut-outs were not
    quite true and the frames had been subtly bent to fit. This meant that
    the glass shop, working only from the frame as a template did not end
    up with Lexan which, when re-installed in the frame, fit back into the
    frame cut-out! Happily, I had only done one of four portlights as a
    test. The cure was to supply the glass shop with the old acrylic pieces
    as templates. The shop used a double-sided black gasket material to
    form a bed between the frame and the Lexan. As to the mysterious gasket
    material -- I used storm window gasket spline. Don't take this part of
    the solution as a perfect fix though as the boat never went back in the
    water after the portlights were replaced. (For an explanation of that,
    see notes 7.40 and 1776.28).

    As a note - C&C have a recording at their standard factory number
    which, for customer service, refers you to Rob McLaughlin - their
    service manager ... at his house!

    Carl 

    re : .9    8000 grit sandpaper
    
       Isn't that the stuff you use when doing a 3 angle valve job and 
    porting of a 386 sx  gate array?  ;>)  ;>)
    
        Wowwwww   I have worked my way down to 1500 on a gelcoat job. A
    racer friend of mine who works for 3M says they use 2000 for polishing
    out scratches in automotive clear coats. The stuff is smoother than
    Kleenix. How do you use 8000 grit? It would seem to me you would need
    triple distilled water as any impurities in the water would be on a
    larger size than the grit!
    
    
       Re .10   When you are not sure for template, build a cheap one. buy
    a piece of thin plexiglas at a hardware store (about 5 bucks), or ask
    the glass dealer you are going to get the lexan from for a old used 
    piece. They ussally will give it to you for free (cheaper than paying
    to have it hauled away).
    
      Then take it home and work it. Start larger than needed by cutting
    with a hack or coping saw. As you start to fine tune, use a sure-form
    or rasp. Just a bit at a time. When you get the fit you want, take the
    piece of plexiglass to the glass shop and have them use it as a
    template. 
    
    
        For compound curves, I use an old wire chair (those $3 white ones
    that rust out before the summer is over) and a blow torch. Heat the 
    plexi-glas (smooth strokes like spray painting) until it get shiney and
    more clear. Then put on those oven mitts and bend to the needed shape.
    Never tried lexan though.
    
        john

Thanks, Scott, for the update from Practical Sailor.
    
I called GO Industries, Calif., 714-837-8241. They make custom windows to
your existing shape. They can match many stock boat windows from their files,
or you can send them a tracing of your specific rough opening. 

Their windows have the same construction as the ones one my boat: a PVC
extrusion which they shape to match your opening; a Lucite window, which they
cut to match, and a frame (also formed from an extrusion) which holds the
window form the inside. The frame is screwed onto the main extrusion from the
inside to retain the window in the hull opening. The Lucite is solvent-welded
to the main extrusion, making a strong (but unrepairable!) window assembly.

--RS

    Lexan is easy to work with if you have the right tools and more
    importantly technique.  It can be sawn with a table saw, worked with 
    a router, drilled, tapped, sanded etc. but as Scott said it is 
    brittle and must be handled accordingly.  Do not force the tool into 
    it or it into the tool.  Slow works well to avoid chipping.  Do not 
    heat this stuff with a blow torch.  Plexiglass is okay but Lexan will 
    not polish the same way as plexiglass and is more prone to burning.  
    
    Scratches and stuff can be polished out of plexiglass using jewlers 
    rouge and a polishing wheel faster than 8000 grit sand paper and it 
    works very well.  Cut edges can be dressed by scraping smooth and 
    then flame polishing.  The key is to break the edges and take out 
    the high spots with the scraper.  Tool steel like a planer blade 
    works well.  This is what we used to use.  Polish the edges with a 
    flame by running the flame along the edge until it becomes clear. 
    Do not linger as the material will burn and will turn sooty.  Ever 
    work with P-Tex on skis?  
    
    Lexan is nasty stuff when burned.  Highly toxic and the results are 
    horrible to boot. You may be able to form it by gently heating but I 
    can't remember doing it when I worked with both on a regular basis.  
    Any plastic fabrication house can tell you what's okay and what's not
    with Leaxan.  Plexiglass is far cheaper and easier to work with that I 
    would choose that over Lexan for most if not all applications.  
    
    As for heating on a grate or other uneven surface, baking plexiglass 
    in an oven works very well also.  It is less prone to creating unwanted
    marks from the wires in the seat.  As the material softens, the surface
    becomes very susceptible to damage.  Place the material on a cookie
    sheet, turn the oven to 350 or so and let it heat for 5-10 minutes
    depending upon thickness.  Don't be afraid to check it periodically for
    pliability.  If it hardens back up after you have started to form the
    shape, reheat it.  There is some residual memory in the material so
    over forming is not a bad idea unless you have an effective clamping
    jig to hold the part shape while cooling.    
    
    If you are trying to make new lights for your ports, try this assuming
    and exact duplicate can be scribed of the original part. 
    
    1. Select an appropriate thickness of material to work with depending
    upon the original, desired strength etc.  
    
    2. Do not peel the protective paper from the plexiglass.  Using the
    template, pencil or pen scribe the outline of orignial part on the
    protective paper.  
    
    3. Using a table, band or circular saw, cut the rough shape of
    the part.  Work slowly to avoid chipping and make sure the blade is
    sharp.  Use a carbide tipped blade only unless you are using a band saw.  
    
    4. Cut as closely as possible to the scribe lines but stay outside.  
    
    5. If you have access to a disk sander with a table, sand the edges to
    the scribe lines.  A belt sander will work well also if held in a jig
    or a drum sander attachment on a drill press.  Work slowly and use a
    light but steady pressure to avoid heating the piece and melting it. 
    Use 120 or finer paper.  The finer the grit the longer it will take 
    but if you need to dress the edges, the nicer the finish will be.  
    
    6. Mount the new light into the frame and bed per the original.  Peel
    only the amount of paper necessary to allow for clean bedding surfaces.  
    
    7. Mount the framed port light and peel off the paper.   
     
    
    I made a replacement globe out of .12" plexiglass after breaking the
    original glass one on our stern light.  I cut a piece of material
    slightly wider than the height of the globe and longer than the
    circumference. I then used the above method to soften the material 
    and used hose clamps to form the shape desired.  The housing was used 
    as my template.  It took some fiddling to trim the ends to make the circle
    the right size but after I was all through, I had fabricated a
    replacement for a long out of stock part that is virtually
    indestructable.  Cost me about $0.15 and an hours worth of time. One 
    problem with tight bends is that the edges will curl outward so allow 
    for this by making the piece too large initially and then cut to size, 
    trimming the curled edges.  
    
    Brian 

re .13:

Lexan is several times stronger than plexiglass. This alone is
sufficient reason to use lexan for ports and hatches, in my view,
especially if you contemplate offshore sailing. I used 3/8" lexan when I
rebuilt our hatches. 

By the way, lexan expands/contracts considerably with temperature 
change, so you need a fairly thick gasket or ample bedding to maintain 
a seal. 

    Yes, Lexan is several times stronger than plexiglas for a given
    thickness.  Plexiglass is considerably cheaper to allow a greater
    thickness to be used and still save over Lexan.  Either material is
    suitable for use in hatches, and lights as long as the anticpated
    strength needed is taken into consideration.  Material choice should
    be based on several factors like opening size, anticipated loads etc.
    
    Didn't know about the expansion/contraction of Lexan.  Seems like a key
    property to watch for especially if sailing in our area. 
    
    Brian

re .last:

In theory, I agree with you. But, what ARE the anticipated loads on a 
hatch or port? I haven't a clue beyond knowing that impact load from a 
breaking wave or capsize is huge. In my mind, additional security (and 
peace of mind) the extra strength of lexan provides is well worth the 
extra cost. If I recall correctly, and it has been several years, 1/4" 
thick lexan has about the same strength as 1" plexiglass. One of my 
offshore sailing reference books recommends 1" plexiglass storm shutters 
for even relatively small ports.

    Which (if either) turns yellow over time?
    
    Gregg

    I replaced the Plexi Ports in my 1965 Columbia with 1/4" Lexan because
    of the strength factor.  They also resist the crazing common with
    plexiglass over time.  I used smoke tinted lexan and had the panels cut
    by the glass shop that supplied the lexan.  trying to shape them myself
    would have been a real problem.  I gave them a template and they cut
    them using a diamond saw.  I had to do some minor shaping using a file
    and a belt sander.  The lexan is HARD!
    
    My boat had plexiports fixed in rubber beading which is not acceptable
    for off-shore sailing because any big wave will cause the rubber
    beading to just roll inward creating a big hole for more water to come
    in.
    
    I pulled out the beading and fabricated Teak and Mahogany frames shaped
    to fit the openings that went on either side of the Lexan panels.  This
    took the longest amount of time because the corners had to be laminated
    to maintain strength and to look good.
    
    See diagram|
               |
               V
    
                               |   | <- Cabin Side
                           /---|   |---\
                          |    |   |    |
                          |    -----    |
                          |      |      |
                          0=============0 <- Through Bolted
                          |      |      |
                          |    -----    |
       Mahogany Inside -> |    |   |    | <- Teak Outside
                           \---|   |---/
                               |   |
                               |   |  Lexan Port
    
    These were bedded with polysulphide and 10/32 Machine screws were used
    every 4" around the perimeter.  They have weathered many storms and
    hurricane Hugo without a leak and no beakage or blurring.
    
    Good luck.
    
    

    Greg,
    
    Plexiglas will yellow over time but tinting will prevent or at least
    mask the yellowing.  Plexiglas is also prone to chemical crazing and
    fogging in the presence of certain solvents, many of them common
    household cleaners.  Due to it's relative softness to glass and lexan,
    it much easier to scratch as well.   
    
    Brian

I found my General Electric lexan data sheets over the weekend. 

re strength: It appears that the compressive and tensile strength of 
lexan and acrylic are roughly the same. Hmmm. Oh well. However, the 
IMPACT resistance of lexan is some 40 times [!] greater than that of 
acrylic, where this was measured by dropping a five pound steel ball 
onto the material being tested. The dangerous loads on a port or hatch 
are impact loads (eg, a breaking wave). The advantages of higher impact 
resistance are obvious. 

re thermal expansion: Lexan actually expands and contracts slightly less 
than acrylic. GE recommends allowing 1/16" for expansion/contraction per 
24" of length.

Alan 

    
    	How can one compare a steel ball exerting a point stress to a wave
    exerting a stress over an area? I think you're barking up the wrong
    tree here. The Lexan will take a winch handle or maybe foot. Either one
    will take the weight of the boat (worst case being a rollover right?)
    but the gasketing could let go if done wrong. I like the teak/mahogany
    solution a few notes back.
    
    	How many fixed ports have failed in wave action anyway? I'd be more
    worried about the opening hatch over the head that never got dogged
    down after the last use.
    
    	Lexan is also the choice for UV longevity.
    
    	Scott

re .21:

Whether you choose to accept the test results or not is of course your 
decision. I believe that they demonstrate beyond reasonable doubt that 
lexan has a significantly higher impact strength than acrylic. Whether 
it is 5 or 10 or 40 times stronger is not as important as the fact that 
it is stronger.

How many ports are broken by waves and knockdowns? Lots. Every book I've 
ever read about offshore sailing recommends storm shutters for all 
ports -- one book recommends 1" thick acrylic (plexiglass) covers for 
even small ports. The ORC rules require storm shutters for large ports. 
Many leeward ports are broken when boats fall off waves. It has happened 
to someone I know. The results were not at all nice. The impact of a
breaking wave can be tremendous and so can the impact of falling off a
high, steep wave. Since breaking waves hit cabin sides and boats falling
off waves usually land on their sides or bottoms, ports are perhaps more
vulnerable than hatches. Storm shutters should not depend on gasketing
or frames. Ours overlap the cabin sides from the outside and only
protect the ports from impact. The shutters are not intended to be
watertight. 

    WANTED: A liveaboard cruiser, preferably a catamaran or trimaran
    because of the space, but I will consider a pilothouse ketch or some
    economical but large boat below deck. I have up to $45,000 cash to
    spend (I am not financing) for a sound boat, likely over 35' for a
    multihull or 42' for a mono.
    
    Ray Thackeray (508) 966-3445

    I've got a problem I'm hoping some of you can help with....
    
    I've got bronze portholes that are roughly 6" tall and 10-12" wide
    that have the rubber molding that stops water from seeping in from the
    outside. This molding is shot. The porthole is hinged at the top and
    swings down onto a very small but sharp lip around the opening that is
    supposed to bite into the molding when screwed down.
    
    The molding is beginning to leak like a sieve in several portholes.
    Can someone steer me in the direction of a fix? What material would one
    use? Would someone know where I can get replacement gaskets or material
    to do my own? I'm stumped and my cushions are beginning to take a
    beating.
    
    BTW, the portholes are just like what you would find on a Hans
    Christian or Tayana.
    
    Thanks!
    Robert

You need to find a source for rubber moulding with the same cross section as
the moulding used in your portholes. You might be able to get help from Boat
US. They offer a "hard to find" phone number that will try to locate this
kind of thing for you. If you can find somebody who still sells similar
portholes, they probably will be able to help you with the gaskets also.
You may be able to find companies that sell various rubber gasket materials
by looking in the yellow pages (or the Thomas Register) under rubber products.

If the gasket is set into a channel in the porthole, you may be able to make
a new gasket by filling the channel with a silicone caulk, and gently closing
the porthole onto the silicone to define the gasket. Make sure you use a caulk
that is NOT adhesive. After it's cured, you can tighten the porthole further
to make a good seal.

--RS

    Another source for rubber inserts and just about anything else you may
    need is Bud taplin, World Cruiser Yacht Company in Costa Mesa, CA.
    
    His telephone is (714) 549-9331
    
        Howard

    Thanks guys. I'll call Bud and consider the Silicone advise too. If
    anybody else has ideas, please feel free to post them!
    
    Robert