Conference unifix::sailing

When asking for advice on this or that boat, it would be helpful if you 
would indicate what kind of sailing you intend to do (racing, coastal 
cruising, offshore sailing, short-handed or fully crewed sailing, etc) 
as every boat is more suitable for some purposes than others. For 
example, my Valiant 32 is not one a racer would buy, but for 
short-handed offshore sailing it is a truly excellent boat (in my 
admittedly biased opinion). It would also be helpful if you would 
indicate what features (if any) you are particularly interested in.

All I know about Catalinas is that they are built in California and are 
not offshore boats. 

Alan

    The type of sailing I am interested in is coastal cruising. I am more
    interested in comfort than speed. I will be sailing mostly with one
    crew member and am interrested to know how easy she would be to sail.
    
    Chris

Ease of handling depends on several factors that are not necessarily
specific to a particular boat. Examples:

  Big self-tailing winches (expensive) make sail handling vastly easier.

  Roller furling makes reducing headsail area easier (but only until you 
  have to change sails -- then it may be much harder).

  Small(er) jibs are easier to handle than large genoas.

Based on my experience adapting to a 32' cutter after owning a 26'
sloop, you will likely find a 36' boat intimidating and hard to handle
after sailing a 27' boat, at least initially. Even with big winches,
roller furling, etc, a bigger boat is more work to sail than a smaller
one, and probably less fun for casual daysailing. All the gear on a 
larger boat is (or should be) bigger, heavier, and more expensive than 
on a smaller boat. Having owned our 32' boat for eleven years, I have
come to the conclusion that it is the ideal size for one or two people,
even for extended cruising. A bigger boat would do little except inflate
my ego and deflate my bank account. 

    Not to throw water on your ambitions but...
    
    Please do yourself a favor and buy the smallest boat you think will
    meet your needs.  For instance, if you need more space and had already
    made up your mind that 34 feet was fine, be wary of getting into
    anything bigger.  Costs go up dramatically and not linearly with size.
    The least expensive thing about owning and operating a boat is the
    initial investment  in the form of the loan.  Storage costs, sails,
    everything gets very big, very fast.
    
    Having said that, I am a fan of Catalina.  My family had Catalinas when
    I was growing up.  I sold and taught sailing in Catalinas.  I agree
    that I would not want to cross the oceans in one, but they are
    excellent for coastal cruising with decent speed and lots of interior
    space that is admittedly suited to use at anchor or slip than offshore.
    But you won't be doing much of that anyway.  
    
    You will be getting a heck of a lot of boat which is good and bad.  If
    your crew is one inexperienced friend, this will be a lot to handle.
    The 36 is based on a much more modern hull design than the 34 which is
    based off old molds purchased from another manufacturer.  You can spot
    the Gary Mull tumblehome in the 34's which is way out of style.  
    
    If you can afford the incremental expense and feel you have the
    experience, go for the 36.
    
    Dave

    I owned a Catalina 34 for two seasons (and I've owned others). I
    sailed it from Portland to Nantucket and in between. "For 
    the money" it's a *GREAT* boat! There are no others in it's class that 
    compare in terms of speed, ease of handling, comfort, or layout. I've
    only sailed on a 36 once, but, I'd give it equal high marks (I
    do prefer the aft cabin/head layout in the 34 to the 36 layout).
    I had two warrant problem with my 34 (both small, both answered
    personally by the own/president of Catalina, Frank Butler).
    
    Is this clear enough?
    
    I'll also repeat; it is NOT an "offshore boat". But, I assume you
    will be going no further 'offshore' than the depth of Massachusetts
    Bay.
    
    gary h...

    Re: -.1
    
    Funny how one guy can make so much of a difference.  When my family was
    having our Catalina 27 built my dad was going to Clalifornia quite a bit
    on business and spent a lot of time at the factory with Frank Butler. 
    He oversaw some custom layout work we had built in.
    
    When we got one of the first 30's Frank was personally involved again!
    Granted our hull number on the 27 was around 80 (out of the thousands
    built since) and 12 on the 30 footer, but I never understood how Frank
    could be so available to help with the volume he turns out.
    
    I do not think there is another builder that has put as many people in
    a reasonable quality boat as Frank.  As I remember, our customized 27,
    shipped to the East coast with standard sails ran less than $10K!  No
    more, but still I think you get a heck of a value for a boat that suits
    most people's needs.
    
    Dave

    
    I called Catalina this past Winter with some questions about my keel,
    expected performance, etc.  Frank Butler returned my call, and when
    I wasn't home, he called back again!
    
    Amazing.
    
    I wonder how many customer calls Ken Olsen makes?
    
       /Jim
    

    I think EVERY Catalina owner has talked to Frank Butler at one time or
    another.  I had a warranty problem on my 30 (warped forward hatch) and
    the dealer wasn't responsive.  I called Catalina and talked to Frank
    and the problem was fixed the next day.  I hope he lives a long time.
    
    

    Without starting an argument about whether Catalinas are a coastal
    or offshore boat, I'd like to mention a series of articles in 
    Cruising World in the early 80's about a 27 being singlehanded
    around the world.  One article detailed minor modifications
    made in preparation for the trip.  The Captain's attitude I 
    believe was go now with what you can afford or spend the rest
    of your life dreaming and saving.       
    
    Rick

re .9:

This question is discussed in Note 1057. Just because someone has sailed 
a Clorox Bottle around the world does not make it safe to do so. The 
recent note about the abandonment of a Valiant 40 illustrates that even 
a boat designed and built for offshore sailing is at risk.

    Re: .9
    
    I guess I should have said in my reply that "in my opinion" the
    Catalina is not on "offshore boat". As well as the 34, I owned a
    Catalina 27 (which is why I bought the 34). Also a *GREAT* boat.
    
    "offshore", "heavy weather", "Force 10",... "boat" is a matter of
    definition (and were all entitled to our own). Briefly (if there's
    such a thing in NotesFiles), a few of the major short comings in
    the Catalina line (plastic construction techniques aside):
    
    - companionway is too large and cut too low
    - the forward hatch (if installed) is light weight lexan (too light duty)
    - thru-hulls are plastic and too difficult to get at
    - bilge is too small
    - underpowered with standard diesels
    - not enough solid hand-holds topside or below
    - stanchions are not backed adequate to take a full load
    - "harbor layout" makes movement below impossible on a heavy heel
    - worse yet, trying to sleep in one of the berths at +30 degree heel
    
    Again... my opinion.
    
    Remember: The only difference between going to jail and going to sea
    is; YOU CAN'T DROWN IN JAIL.
    
    
    gary h...

    I have an 1984 Catalina 36.  It is a great boat for cruising.  It has a lot
    of room inside for its size.  It is definitely an offshore boat.  We
    have gone to Maine with it, and every summer go to Martha's Vineyards
    and Nantucket.  We have entered many races and have won quite a few
    trophees with my husband, son and I.  Actually, we are considering
    selling it and buy the Cataline 42.  You will definitely be pleased
    with the 36.  Catalina boats are well worth their value.  We started
    with the Catalina 27, then Catalina 30.  Frank Butler from Catalina
    is a remarkable person.  My husband had numerous conversations with him
    over the phone when we bought the 36.  Actually we got the boat from
    Fred McLaughlin from Eastern Yacht in Hingham.  If you can buy the
    36, get it, you will be more than pleased. 

    I guess it all depends on what you mean by "offshore". To some people
    it means Block Island or Martha's Vineyard.
    
    To others, it means Cape Horn or mid-Atlantic!
    
    Frankly, I can be very happy in a 20' sailboat in Buzzard's Bay (with
    asharp weather eye out), let alone a 36' Catalina!!! But is she
    ship-shape and Bristol fashion enough for a two-week cruise, with
    confidence, to the Caribbean?
    
    Ray

    Can anyone give me the number to contact Catalina Yachts directly.  A
    friend bought a used 25 and is having some minor rigging problems.  I
    suspect that they are his own mistakes rather than design flaws.  But I
    told him I would try and get him the number of Catalina.  Hopefully
    thay have an owners manual that he can buy.
    
    
    Forrest

    818 / 884-7700

    I am a new reader to the sailing notes.  This is a great way to
    exchange info on common subjects.  I have been a boat owner for twenty
    years and in 1989 bought a new Catalina 36, sail #921.  For years I did
    not consider Catalina's quality up to industry standards.  After a tour
    of their factory in 89 I changed my opinion.  In the last few years
    they have upgraded the quality of their hardware, hatches, standing
    rigging, anchoring systems etc.  I am totally satisified with my
    Catalina 36.  To date we have logged over 2000 miles coastal cruising
    off the coast of San Diego.  This includes a 460 mile trip to Santa
    Cruz Island off Santa Barbara and several 150 mile trips to Catalina
    Island.  The boat has performed flawlessly.  The only problem I have
    experenced is that the switch to the shower sump pump failed.  I would
    not hesitate to use a Catalina 36 for coastal crusing, which is what
    99.999 percent of all sailors do.  If I were truly going off shore I
    would purchase a different boat.  I would want a heaver boat with more
    tankage, storage, etc., etc.  Bang for the buck Catalina's are a very
    good value.  Catalina is the largest boat builder (# of boats) in the
    U.S. and maybe in the world.  Many builders such as Erickson, ODay,
    Islander, S2, Morgan and the list goes on, have gone by the boards.  I
    have owned boats that were very difficult to sell because there were
    not many around.  I am confident there will still be a market for 
    Catalina's when the time comes to sell.
    
    A comment on a previous responder.  The Catalina 34 is a Frank Butler
    design.  The boat that is not a Butler design is the 38 which has the
    tumblehome style hull.
    
    Would like to hear from other Catalina owners.
    
    Chuck