Conference unifix::sailing

    Bill, I'll make a copy of this issue for you so you can fill the
    blank space in your collection.
    
    John_R

  I also would like a copy of the article as we are looking at
  30 foot boats for next season. Can I impose upon either of you
  

  let's try again. I am interested in the Catalina 30. Any info
  on this or other like boats would be helpful. a copy of the above
  would be greatly appreciated. 
  Thanks much!
  Brian McBride

    For all those who have sent me mail requesting the PS article on
    the Catalina 30.
    
    There will be a short delay while I find it. I haven't had any luck
    looking through 1983-85 issues Anyone know where it is?
    
    Sure wish I had an online index to search. Anybody feel like typing
    one? We could even make it a note. I doubt if PS would mind.
    
    John
    

  In looking through my indexes (back to mid 1983) I can't seem to locate
    it. However, I do remember getting it in the mail and reading it.
    Their Boat Buying book has it listed so I know the really did write
    it up.
    
    Perhaps this was prior to mid 1983?
    
    bc

    I've been distracted the last few days but will continue the search
    soon. My issues go back to 1982.
    
    John

    I am considering a first time purchase of a sailboat after owning power
    boats for years. I will be using it strictly on a lake with 550 miles
    of shoreline. Having small children, I am more concerned with comfort
    to spend weekends on rather than racing performance. I walked the docks
    yesterday and had an opportunity to talk extensively with an owner of a
    Catalina 30. This boat seemed to be perfect for what I was looking for
    but I wanted to ask if anyone has experience with this boat or an
    equivalent and can point out the good and bad points as well as give me
    some advice on what to be careful of in purchasing a used sailboat.
    Thanks for the help!!

    Those of us with Catalina 30's absolutely love our boats.  There have
    been over 6,000 of them made now and it is one big reason why Catalina
    is making money while other sailboat makers are going belly up.
    
    The luxury of a lake gives you several circumstances which could affect
    your choices.  For example, you may be able to get by with a boat with
    the 14 hp diesel whereas I need the 25 on the ocean.  However, because
    lake sailing generally involves lighter winds (less than 15k), you may
    want to look for a tall rig which will give you more sail area.
    
    The "double" quarter berth definitely is a single unless you or your spouse
    served on a submarine during the second world war and don't mind
    sleeping in an area where you can't turn over.  Generally, I sleep in
    the quarter berth and my wife takes the vee.  When our children were
    younger they used to sleep in the vee, me in the quarter, and my wife
    would sleep on the starboard setee.  I would say that you're fine with
    four people aboard, buat with five you have to drop the dinette to
    sleep (not really much of a hassle, but it does mean the main cabin
    is unuseable when somebody is sleeping.
    
    Some of the options I'd definitely want on any Catalina 30 -
    
    1.  Diesel - don't go for an Atomic 4 unless the price is so low
        that you can afford an extra $5K or so to repower.
    
    2.  Hot & cold pressurized water - a real luxury, expecially with
        children.                                                               
    
    3.  Roller furling - don't leave home without it.
    
    4.  CNG or propane for cooking - alcohol stoves aren't worth the
        bother.
	
    If the lake is shallow, you may want a shoal draft boat, but you'll
    lose a little pointing ability.
    
    One last thing, have a survey done.  Money well spent.
    
    Enjoy your boat - you'll love it.

    Thanks for the glowing recommendation. BTW, what is an Atomic 4?

    A gasoline engine built around an old Ford tractor block.  The most
    popular marine engine ever, but out of production for many moons -
    just as well since gas is so volatile.

I am in the market for a 27-30' used cruiser.  I have looked at a bunch 
and have been leaning towards a Catalina 30'.  I have found one Catalina 30'
I like but have a couple questions.  The boat is a 1980 and therefor has an
Atomic 4 30HP.  Should I try to find a newer boat with a diesel, or take
my chance with a 10 yr old Atomic???  I live in NH and plan to keep the boat in 
Falmouth ME. (Handy Boat???) and may purchase the boat in Maine.  Do I have to
pay Maine sales tax???  Anyone have experience with Handy Boat??

thanx
gary

    Diesel engines are significantly safer, generally more
    reliable and tend to be more durable then most gasoline engines. Given
    the choice I would definitely go with a diesel, even if it does cost
    more. As has been mentioned in several other notes in this conference
    it's a buyers market and with the number of Catalina 30's available you
    hold the cards. 
    
    Maine does not impose a sales tax on used boats but they do have an
    excise tax which you pay yearly based on the LOA and age of the boat.
    Falmouth Me. (and I assume all other towns witrh a harbor) has a
    mooring tax again paid yearly, it's one of  those $1 for residents $100
    for non-resident deals. 
    
    We have been at Handy Boat for ten years or so and we have generally
    been pleased with the service. The mooring area gets pretty rolly in a
    southeast/east breeze but it's not too bad. 

    Thinking about moving up to a Catalina 30. Would appreciate all
    comments pro and con on a 1986 Catalina 30. Asking price is 37k. Can
    anyone tell me what they are actualy selling for? What is the maximum
    that we should pay for it? Does this boat have a good tract record?
    It's a great looking boat and seems to have plenty of space for the two
    of us but is it any good? Would I be sorry if I bought it a year from
    now? 
    My wife and I have been sailing a Bristol 24 for three seasons now and are 
    ready for a little more space and comfort. We keep our boat in Rockland 
    Maine and have been sailing Penobscot Bay, Blue Hill Bay, Jerico Bay and
    Frenchmans Bay.

I have hull number 17 (1975) and am generally happy with her.  There were a
few things I 'inherited' from the previous owner, and a couple things that 
were corrected by 1976.

One thing to check is the size of the diesel.  When they first converted from
the old Atomic 4 they installed some 12 HP engines which are woefully inadaquate
in any kind of serious weather.  The 18 HP is marginal, and the now stock 23 HP
should be fine (I installed a 25 HP deisel to replace my Atomic 4).  I am told
some of the boats have hot water heaters in the stern (the engine is roughly
midships) and that that can cause some problems (I think an auxiliary pump for
the coolant was mentioned).

If you're over 6', carefully check out the v-berth.

On mine the rig is solid, the hull has some crazing and a few stress cracks
around fittings that look like the pilot holes weren't drilled properly.  I
can't tell how much of that was original or add on.

She handles well, even with sails that really need to be replaced.  I've taken
her out of Newburyport harbor when I really shouldn't have (10' breaking seas
at the entrance) and she did just fine.  I typically single hand, and have no
trouble.  Very easy for two people if you are careful about sail selection.

    Open to suggestions for other boats around 30 feet and 85 vintage or
    later. Dollar rang around 35k.
    

    I have an '87 Catalina 30, hull #4766.  87 was the first year with
    the "T" cockpit, sit down nav station, and a few other niceties, but
    it's still the same boat.  The tall rig isn't necessary for New England
    - I have one so I can swear to this.  Quite right a few notes back
    about the diesel.  I have a Universal 25 and it's "just right" for
    the size boat.  The diesel is bolted under the galley island.  Nice for
    working on it, but makes the cabin noisey and the engine is offset to
    port, so steering under power has a pronounced pull to starboard.  This
    can be annoying if you're hand steering for a long while under power.
    
    As much as I hate to admit it, $37K is probably about $5-7K more than
    the owner would really take if he wants to get out of sailing.  I
    wouldn't sell Encore for a penny less than $39, but then, I really
    don't want to sell her.

      Any comments on a new Catalina 30 compared to a Hunter 30?? 

      I think that it is a Hunter 30... here in the UK they are called 
      Legend 30's.

      Need:
      	      Sleep (I am 6'5")
      	      Space (Two children under 6 to sleep and play).
      	      Space (Need berths for 6 (4 adults and 2 children) for 2 or 3 
      days at a time when Grandparents wont to come along).
      	      Shallow draft (East Coast UK is a little muddy).
      	      Sails well (Friends have a GK29 (Westerley Konsort) 29 - we 
      need something 1% quicker!!).

Cheers, Chris

>      Any comments on a new Catalina 30 compared to a Hunter 30?? 

I just saw both of them at the Newport Sailboat show.  The're very comparable
boats.  I liked the way the Hunter was layed out better.  I had no problems
with headroom in either boat, but I'm only 6'0", you may find it a little
low. 

4 adults and 2 children on either boat would be way too crowded for my
liking, but maybe not your family.  Think about it carefully though...

I don't know about the Hunter, but I've sailed a Catalina 30, and it's not
a bad little performer.  With the tall rig and a huge Genoa, it moves
well in light air.

Neither of these is even close to what I'd consider suitable for sailing
more than 15 NM away from a shoreline.  As much as I thought about it, I just
could not find good ways to seal the cabin. The companionway on the Catalina,
while nice and confortable, would be a nightmare in a storm.  The rigging
is pretty light, the rudders did not impress me as rugged, the stability
could be better (especially with a shoal draft keel) ......But all this is
just me.  I understand some folks went from Boston to Bermuda in a smallish
Catalina.  Better them than me.

F.

    
    	FWIW: PHRF-NE ratings:
    
    		Catalina 30:  180 sec/mile- 6sec faster w/tall mast, 3sec.
    slower with wing keel. Also 6 sec faster with bowsprit. Here, where
    summer air is light, sail area does buy a penalty.
    
    		Hunter 30: 177 sec/mile, same numbers as above for extras.
    This does sound like the older design, before they Euro- ized. For
    instance, the new 25 footer is rated 18-21 sec faster. There's a Legend
    35 and 37, rated 132 and 96(!) with wing keels... pretty impressive for
    the latter.
    
    	Around my neck of the woods (south of Boston), there are quite a
    few more Catalinas than Hunters, thus the market is better. I'm 6', and
    find the Catalina pretty roomy. Unfamiliar with the Hunters.
    
    	Good Luck! Perhaps that wing keel will serve well.
    
    	Scott.

A friend of a friend owns a Hunter 34. It is an extremely tender boat 
that develops horrendous weather helm as it heels. The boat is difficult
to impossible to sail to weather in more than 20 to 25 knots of wind.
Don't know about the characteristics of other Hunters, but 'tis worth
inquiring. 

I agree with the comment that six people, even if two are children, is 
very crowded on a 30' boat. I find overnighting with just three adults 
cramped on our fairly roomy 32' boat.

    
    Re 17 and the Westerley GK 29.
    
    I'm not all that familiar with all of the variants of Westerley. But:
    If the Konsort is the flush deck GK 29 with a beam of about 10 1/2
    feet, a draft of about 5 1/2 feet, with a cast iron keel; that boat,
    with a feathering prop and inboard diesel has been given a rating in
    the high 180s or low 190sec/mile in the Boston area.
    
    A friend of mine has one, and has raced it in Boston on Wednesday
    nights, and in the PHRF NE this year.  He consistently finishes in the top 
    third on Wednesdays, and took 4th out of 9 boats in the PHRF NE.  That
    might indicate that his rating is moderately accurate, to slightly
    favorable.
    
    There is also a lead keel version of the GK 29, and presumably that
    would rate faster.
    
    djc
    

    I spend a lot of time - just about every weekend and a couple of weeks
    of vacation - on my Cat-30 with my wife and 3 kids, one adult-sized. 
    It is tight, but do-able, kind of like living with your whole family in
    one room (or in a camper).  You (& the family) have to really like 
    sailing to do it on an on-going basis.
    
    I'm not sure I'd be really comfortable 'housing' 4 adults other than
    very occasionally.
    
    Although I love the boat, if I were in a position to be buying another 
    one, I'd go for much more in terms of accommodations, if nothing else, 
    given the fact that we literally live on it.