Conference turris::cooks

  You have our sympathy. Much as I'd love to suggest that you train him
  to expand his tastes, you really can't do much about it. It's pretty
  rare that an adult with bad eating habits will change them without
  very strong incentives, such as a heart attack or a viciously
  persistent family. And I seriously doubt that the bad feelings which
  might result from insistence would be worth it. Let him eat the way he
  wants. The problem is for you to decide how YOU want to eat. You can
  either eat his way, or the two of you can have different dishes. In
  the latter case, I would encourage you to get him to help preparing at
  least his own dishes, because preparing two meals is too much extra
  work.

  We have many, many friends who have exactly the same situation. What
  most of them do is: the food lover tolerates the bad eater's tastes
  most of the time, but the bad eater has to tolerate an occasional
  (maybe once a week) interesting meal. He/she doesn't have to eat all
  of it, but, as a concession to the food lover's suffering, has to try
  at least two bites of everything. It's just the way you would treat a
  child, which is appropriate, because in reality, it's childish
  behavior. In some rare cases, the bad eater may come to like a dish
  which you find interesting, but that's not to be hoped for. You may
  find some dishes like this in the notes in this conference on feeding
  children.

    In a previous relationship, we had two kinds of food -- my food, and
    his food.  This is what we did most of the time -- he'd make a
    microwave dinner, and I'd cook something for myself.  It worked out
    fine, because usually I didn't insist that he enjoy my cooking, and he
    didn't try to persuade me that microwave food was much better because
    you didn't have to WAIT for dinner.  Mind  you, I did have days when I
    rolled my eyes to the ceiling at his Philistine tastes.
    
    But over the course of time, something happened.  We found out we both
    liked chinese food -- he'd eat all the meat, and I'd eat all the
    vegetables.  Then he branched out into occasional indian foods, and I
    found out that INDIAN frozen dinners were actually pretty good, and I
    branched out into the occasional microwave dinner.  The night I came
    home and said what I'd really like for dinner was two hot dogs from the
    grill and a wine cooler, he practically cheered.  Of course, the
    Valentine's Day I slaved over boeuf bourginon and he said it was ok but
    he preferred Dinty Moore stew, I nearly killed him.
    
    Anyway, what I'm saying is that cooking separately was okay for us. 
    We did eventually break up, but it wasn't over dinner.  And you'll
    still find me with Diet Dr. Pepper and 35-Calorie Fudge Pops in my
    freezer as a legacy of those times.  :)
    
    Good luck with your honey --
    
    Peigi  

    RE: .2
    
    You are SOOOO right!  It IS like feeding a child and your suggestions 
    are great.  I read somewhere of the suggestion you mentioned regarding
    trying at least 2 bites, for children anyway.  I'll try anything - this
    may be my only hope or the best one yet.  Thanks a great deal!!!  I 
    don't want him angry with me but something has to be done.  He's gained
    close to 15 pounds and still expanding.  I'm not one to talk since I need
    to finish losing my other few that's packed on but I've since stopped
    trying because I don't have the energy to make 2 meals every night. 
    I've never eaten processed food - now it's growing on me.  Yuck!
    
    As for re: .1??  Maybe I'll keep them both .... figure I could save
    more money by trying different forms of cat food (for both!!).  If
    that doesn't work then I could always use the ol' stand -by.  They'll
    eat it when they get hungry enough!!
    

  We all retain some childish behavior, and while it would be better in
  most cases if we didn't, it's not a terrible problem, and it's best to
  just ignore it. And by ignoring it, I really mean forget about it.
  It's insignificant. Like the color of your toothbrush. Even better,
  you may eventually find it endearing. Look forward to that
  possibility, because it will give you lots of laughs together. That's
  how most of our friends have handled it, and they're quite happily
  married.

  -------

  It's fairly easy to develop a taste for just about anything, so if you
  eat "bad" food long enough, you really can come to enjoy it. Not that
  you would necessarily prefer it, but it doesn't have to be suffering.
  I like cooking and eating "interesting" food to the point of
  obsession, but I can eat and enjoy almost anything, including hot
  dogs, macaroni and cheese from a box (I *love* that!), microwave
  dinners, canned soups, you name it. When it comes to naming my
  favorites, few of these will be on the list, but I still can enjoy
  them.

  -------

  There's a reason to be concerned if he's suddenly gaining weight. If
  his eating habits have truly NOT changed, then what's the reason for
  the weight gain?

  Uncontrolled weight gain is certainly unhealthy, because it causes
  changes in metabolism which make it incredibly difficult to get rid of
  the extra weight. People who were once thin and healthy can become
  dangerously overweight (with all the extra physical and psychological
  problems that involves), and it may be close to impossible for them to
  return to the thin condition and maintain it.

  So I ask: what's changed? Is he suddenly eating more of whatever he
  ate before? If so, why? Was he previously living at home where "momma"
  controlled his diet? Are you making large enough quantities that he
  can eat too much? Or is he getting significantly less exercise? If so,
  why?

  What he eats and whether it's balanced are important, but you can't do
  much about it, and it's not as important as a sudden change in
  metabolism.

    I hope he doesn't read this file .... if so then I may have some
    explaining to do *8-)!
    
    He's become, what alot of people call, happy!!  *Momma* never
    controlled what he ate, he was just never home and despised her 
    cooking.  He does enjoy my cooking BUT only when it's not all
    that foreign to his taste buds.  Now he's content and so am I
    (with him that is) but not with his eating habits.  He hasn't 
    noticed any weight gain at all!
    
    I gained weight due to stress and problems that I'd rather not
    disclose.  I've never been overweight, that is, until now (before
    him!)  I've lost a good amount which I am proud of but I need to 
    lose more.  It's very easy to pick up bad habits, regardless if it's
    tennis or eating, that most folks don't notice it until it's brought
    to their attention (and too late!)  I have always eaten properly due 
    to my mom's insistance (you get a fudgsicle and Gail gets an apple!)
    and battling with a metabolism disorder.
    
    Food was always an adventure in my family.  My father was in the
    military for 26 years and I spent a good portion of my life in Europe.
    He is also a graduate as well (Culinary Arts) and darn good cook.  My
    mom??  Well, let's just say she did very well in Meatloaf 101A & 101B!
    
    /gail

    Another sympathizer here! Mike has a good point about health - what did
    it for me was when my husband had his cholesterol checked.  I was very
    surprised that instead of reacting like "What the heck, we're all going
    to die someday" he took it seriously.  Getting him to a doctor may be
    harder than getting him to eat veggies, but it may pinpoint the cause
    of the weight gain and maybe not-so-obvious potential problems.
    
    You might have to be part psychologist, too - why does he not like what
    he doesn't like?  Don't let him get away with pouting "I just don't
    like it" - is it the texture, some spice he doesn't like, does it
    remind him of something else or some unpleasant memory, does he like
    things separate and not in a casserole, does he equate "tasting fancy"
    to tasting "expensive" therefore extravagant?  If he can tell you what
    it is, then the next time you make a dish alter it, and then go through
    20 questions again.  If he sees you trying, maybe he'll be more
    inclined to try, too. (And that applies to more than the food aspect of
    a marriage!).  Maybe find out what it is he does like about the things
    you cook that he'll eat, and prepare similar dishes at first.
    
    Capitalize on what he does like - if he will eat potatoes, fix them
    frequently, but a different way each time - they will be familiar old
    potatoes, but he'll be gradually exposed to the idea of change and
    variety.   You can start substituting ingredients, too - if he likes
    lunchmeat and cheese, look for the low fat kind.  If he likes pizza,
    make the crust with whole wheat flour, top with Canadian bacon and
    onions.  Depending on how hardcore he is, some subterfuge may be
    involved - don't let him see wrappers in the trash or tell him what is
    in something till afterwards!
    
    Maybe he is feeling like the food he eats is one of the few things he
    can control in his life or has any say-so about (like a kid!).  Maybe
    he truly is hungry right after work and doesn't want to wait for din,
    no matter how good it might be, so you might need to concentrate on
    prepping healthy snacks or tide-overs.
    
    And this from someone who won't eat broccoli or cauliflower!  Married
    to someone who will eat tofu and veggies but not pasta or noodles!
    
    Good luck!
    
    Terry
     

I've a 'very good friend' who is just terrible in his eating habits - great
guy, no taste...I sympathize.  What I've done is:

Cook simple food, using the fat-cutting, sodium-restricting methods I can
disguise..for instance:

	add no salt when cooking.  Put LITE salt in the shaker and let
	him salt to his heart's content.  He still gets 50% less salt
	this way - more like 60% when you consider I'm using NO canned
	products with salt, etc.

	skim all fat and cut all fat off meat before cooking.

	serve chicken (he'll eat this and beef - every meal - no fish)
	grilled, brushed with lemon.

	serve his favorite foods, made with low-fat cheese, 1%fat milk,
	and with some veggies chopped up and added.  For instance, make
	macaroni and cheese - make the sauce for the pasta with low-fat
	cheddar and swiss cheese (or jack cheese), 1%fat milk, flour,
	and a pinch of dry mustard.  Mix with macaroni, chopped carrots,
	peas, and grated cheeses and put into lightly oiled casserole.
	Bake until golden on top.  Much healthier than Kraft's and still
	macaroni and cheese.

	keep turkey hot dogs around...mix etra lean ground beef 
	half-and-half with ground chicken or turkey.  

	Serve a "sour cream sauce" on potatoes instead of sour cream or
	butter.  Make a white sauce using low-fat ingreds, stir in some
	light sour cream, add seasonings and some chopped parsley.

	buy "light" ketchup (lower in salt, sugar) by Heinz and place in
	non-descript plastic container.

The less you tell him about what you've changed, the less he will notice.
If he complains about not enough salt, tell him you prefer to let him add
his own to taste.  Finally, get a grip on yourself, kiddo...serve yourself
fresh veggies even if he won't eat them.  Leave enough for him to try.
Serve yourself a fettucine with marinara sauce full of fresh veggies and
serve him plain marinara sauce - see which looks better.  Don't try and
talk him into anything, but serve without comment anything he asks to try.

TRUST ME...it's already beginning to work.  8^}

    Continue to prepare dishes that *YOU* find good-tasting, visually
    appealing, and healthy.  Encourage him to try it, ask him what he
    thinks of it.  If he likes it, great.  If he doesn't, oh well--he can
    cook his own meal.  
    
    His health and his eating habits are really *his* problem. And no
    amount of cajoling or wheedling or artfully disguising "horrid" veggies
    is going to make him eat better.  Only he can do that, when he decides
    it's important
    
    After all, you are dealing with a mature, reasonable adult, aren't
    you?  ;^)
                  
    
     

    >After all, you're dealing with a mature adult?
    
    Well, yes .... I guess *8-)!
    
    He's very much the processed brought up child.  No need to wait for a 
    well made dinner when you can open a box.  I'm not a heavy heavy user
    of salt - wine does the job as well as vermouth!  Usually 3 times a 
    week I prepare something that we can both enjoy but it's the OTHER
    nights that I worry.  
    
    I'm not in the mood, nor does it match my personality, to babysit.  I
    agree with the other replies that he will learn on his own - maybe the
    hard way but he will.  I love him more than I can express and I am 
    worried.  His blood pressure is a problem as well.  Sooner or later
    (the way it looks it'll be tomorrow) he'll be taking medication to
    control a problem that can very well be taken care of through diet.  
    
    I still have a few tricks up my sleeve.  I don't give up that easily.
    Discussing the pros and cons of his eating habits might just be the
    topic of conversation this weekend - maybe even tonight.  
    
    
    Let you know in the AM!
    
    /g.

    It seems like your fiance sticks to traditional and simple meals. There
    are a million ways of sneaking in veggies in things like stews, soups,
    pot roasts, etc (things that are all mixed up from the beginning).
    That's how I get veggies into my son, except corn. Now you just have to
    get him to eat it and not question what every piece of food is. 
    
    I have the opposite problem. My husband loves great food. Consequently,
    he cannot stare a piece of plain cooked meat in the face. It has to be
    covered with some exotic sauce. That's all fine and well for weekends
    or Friday nights, but Monday through Thursday I just want to get dinner
    on the table and eat before 7:00pm (especially with kids). There often
    isn't time to make an elabote meal. Luckily, he loves "dagwood"
    sandwiches so I'm usually covered if he doesn't want to eat what I've
    planned. 
    
    There is no sense working yourself up over it, despite the fact that
    you are concerned about his health. You may have to have seperate
    meals, where he cooks his own or let him know what you're cooking for
    dinner, if he wants it fine, if not he cooks for himself. You might
    start looking for recipes for things that can be taken out of the pot
    in simple form for your hubby-to-be and then add a few more things to
    suit your taste. Make mexican corn and he gets plain corn. It is funny 
    because this is how I have to cook with our son. 
    
    Another idea...if he likes salads, add the ingredients that are "normal"
    for him and then toss in your extra ingredients. Let him use bottled
    dressing and you can use your homemade dressings.
    
    Good luck,
    Andrea 

    thanks for all of the suggestions!  i did speak with him and we did
    come to an agreement that he will make an attempt to try *differently*
    prepared dishes, other than what he's grown accustommed.  I, on the
    other hand, will have to learn to try *traditional cooking* which 
    doesn't sit too well with me.  Compromise .... now there's an idea!!!!
    
    it's not like we haven't discussed this before ... seems he's getting a 
    little tired of packaged food nowadays and wants something a little
    different.  a little coercion now and then doesn't hurt either!
    
    thanks again!
    
    /gail

	Re: .0

	Start him on dishes like:
	
	   Chicken Cacciatoire (sp?)
	   Scallop or Chicken Creole
	   and so on...

	What I am suggesting is make some fancy dishes that include
	mainly normal types of food.  I made a beef pot pie once with
	Beef, potatoes, carrots, green beans, wine, vinegar, and beef
	broth.  The wine and vinegar were the only wierd things in this
	pot pie but they gave the dish a very different flavor.  So
	just combine things that you know he will eat but in exotic
	ways... then slowly work your way up.  

	My fiance was alot like yours when I first started cooking for
	him but he ate what I served because he didn't want to insult
	me.  Now, he eats what I serve because he likes it.  I still can't
	get him to touch eggplant but I did feed him spagetti squash with	
	no complaints!  He still  asks for baked chicken on occassion 
	but I generally sneak in some type of sauce (teriaki, honey mustard).

	One thing.... NEVER bring him grocery shopping.  I spent last
	week camping with my fiance and we shopped together and couldn't
	agree on anything!

	Karen

    I've been with my husband for 10 years now, and you can not completely
    change someone's eating habits.  A word of caution.  You need to stop
    eating the way your husband does.  You can balloon up (weight)
    tremendously. ---I did.    
    
    Give him a multi vitamin daily if your worried about his health.  Then
    fix what you like, and fix meat and potatoes for him.
    
    
    
    Donna
    

    Danny and I have a bargain--we have committed to living just as long as
    each other, for as much as we can control this, and to keeping our 
    figures as they were when we married.  This should work retty well 
    since I have a couple of years on him! So he's agreed not to jump out 
    of airplanes anymore and I agreed not to go to a war zone in Somalia 
    like I wanted to do some work with refugees.   And while he still 
    sometimes eats Snickers for lunch, he's improved a lot.  And I've
    come to the center from an almost macrobiotic diet--no meat, no eggs,
    no dairy, fish ok.  
    
    We want to present one philosophy to the children-to-be so he's open to
    giving up the meat.  OK, so the process is going VERY slowly, but we're
    working on the lunch thing.  And I'm not always as diligent as I'd like
    to be about what goes in MY mouth, but I know I have no leverage with
    him without that diligence.  In his favor, he will eat anything and he
    does cook.
    
    So while I have no specifics to offer, I can say it's do-able with the
    right attitude and it's a slow process to change eating habits.  If
    your mate doesn't want to eat, or even try, what you're willing to
    cook, let him make his OWN dinner.  You're really not responsible for
    any more than that.  
    
    Nancy  

    I married a meat-and-potatoes guy who believes he is allergic to
    onions while I lean to the vegetarian side and love spices.
    
    I no longer make elaborate food.  I look at it as a relief.  I don't make
    minestrone  where onions are a must.  I do make Chinese-style stir
    fries this way:  Heat wok, add oil and onions for one.  Remove onions
    with slotted spoon and set aside.  Cook balance of dish.  Remove his
    portion.  Add onions to mine, cook briefly, and serve.  You can apply
    this method to other vegs he won't eat.  Also, you can add spices to
    the wok at the end, to your portion only.
    
    I make pot roast with onions.  I put them in cheesecloth bags (get
    cloth only from cooking store not hardware store) and remove when its
    done.  That way the flavor is there, not the solids.  I can spice the
    sauce 'cause he doesn't eat much anyway.  The dog loves it, though!
    
    He wouldn't eat salads much so we were in a bind this summer with the
    heat.  Finally - BRILLIANT IDEA (ha-ha) this bride asked hubby what
    would make a salad tasty!  He promptly asked for nuts.  He crushes them
    himself, puts them on top, and makes a meal of salad now, with some
    diced chicken and cheese.  Funny - this bride never thought before to
    ask HIM what would make his food appealing.  Taught me not to make so
    many assumptions.
    
    He grills a steak about once a week and makes mashed potatoes with it. 
    That keeps him happy.   I eat a little and have vegs or salad.  Corn on
    the cob is a good option in the summer.
    
    If you can make some simple desserts like apple pie with a minimum of
    sugar (20% of what most recipes call for) that would probably get eaten
    up.  Natural (sugar-free) applesauce with a meal is also nice.
    
    In summary, I just think SIMPLE now and get the best ingredients - such
    as Black Angus steak and high quality vegetables.  I spend less time in
    the kitchen, and am actually happier for it.  When I crave the exotic,
    he'll go to the Thai restaurant with me and find a simple seafood dish
    for himself.  So we are both doing fine.  Our weights are stable and we
    are happy at meal time.  I also view him as responsible for his diet
    though I try to accomodate his tastes and needs.  The days when a wife
    acted like a mother, are long gone.  We have too much to deal with.
    
    Best of luck.  Hope this is the worst problem you have to cope with.

  I'm sure that black angus steak is awful tasty, but are you suggesting
  that it's significantly healthier than the $3.99 chuck I had for
  dinner last night?

    I too have an extremely picky husband who won't eat anything orange
    (except the fruit), won't eat any squash, and believes that vegetables
    are what foods eat :)
    
    After reading the past 17 notes, I asked myself why it is the men that
    are picky?
    
    aud...

    I have a female friend who, by her own admission, has the palate of a
    four-year old; she could be described as a picky eater.
    
    					andrew

    re .18
    
    If you cook things long enough they'll change color.  Green becomes
    gray, orange becomes brown,...  Otherwise, just add ketchup.
    
    By the way, it ain't just the men that are picky, it's just that it's
    extremely rare to find a man who does all the cooking for a picky
    woman.  And most picky eaters who cook for themselves would rather
    make the same old stuff day in and day out instead of asking in a file
    like this about how to get creative.  Hence, you never hear the other
    side of the story.
    
    (Imagine the double blow to macho hood?  Admitting that you cook and
    that you can't make your wide eat her vegetables! (smirk))
    
    		-man-who-cooks-and-eats-most-anything-
    					JP

    
    
    re: .19
    
     I do the cooking in my house but my wife or daughter won't eat
    the veggies.  They claim they just don't like em.  Once in 
    awhile I can get my wife to try something new like the time I
    made some lentil soup.  With a real leery look she asks ...
    "I dunno, do I like lentils ?".  She decided they were pretty
    good (at least in soup), so I do make some amount of progress.
    
    Doesn't stop me from having em though.
    
    Larry

  Hahaha! That made me laugh, 'cause my brother-in-law is in exactly the
  same situation. He feels that if he's doing the work in the kitchen,
  he decides what to cook. He's an excellent cook and makes some really
  interesting dishes. If the others don't like it, it's their problem,
  and they can starve for all he cares. Or they can make their own, but
  they better not be in his way in the kitchen when he's cooking.

  What makes your (and his) circumstances much less of a problem than
  when the man is fussy, is that traditionally-minded hubbies often
  *demand* that the "little woman" have their steak'n'potatoes on the
  table at 5:30. I'm sure your family doesn't make any such demands. So
  traditional cultural values, which do treat the sexes differently, can
  turn otherwise egalitarian food fussiness into a male/female problem.
  That's why, as JP pointed out, you mainly hear about the fussy
  husbands here in COOKS, when most of us believe that fussy women are
  probably just as common.

make a rule:

I cook what I want - you eat what you want.  If you are still hungry you
are welcome to cook what you want - and clean up after yourself.

works pretty good in the long run...of course, I do try to make what I
want look appealing to a "no veggie is a good veggie" person, but I
still cook what I want...after awhile, they learn to adjust.