Conference turris::cooks

salad oil = any light cooking oil like conola oil (Puritan brand), or corn oil,
or safflower oil.  the phrase "salad oil" is generally used when olive oil is 
NOT recommended.    

Ah, a topic for disagreement on a Monday morning!!

I use olive oil when it calls for salad oil.  Since when you go to a restaurant
and ask for oil and vinegar for your salad -- they better darn well bring me a
good quality olive oil and NOT Crisco!!  I call Puritan, Crisco, etc. a cooking
oil.

Come on noters -- let's have a vote!!

dana

OK:

Olive oil tastes revolting.

Walnut oil, or perhaps peanut oil are acceptable...

/. Ian .\

    Olive oil - Yuck!
    
    Wesson or Crisco or Puritan.....
    
    Lynne

    Add one more vote for "cooking oil" wesson type!  However, I have been
    known to use olive oil for salad dressings.

    Thanks everyone and enjoy the controversy I seem to have started.. 
    
    Julie

    Olive oil anytime... but of course, it MUST be good quality olive oil.
    Not many people are used to it... it will happen like with garlic, when
    I visited the US over twenty years ago nobody ever used GARLIC with the
    exception of italians, now it is fashionable to use garlic and it is
    used at times, too much... olive oil is expensive and not too well
    known, but wait till some of the chefs on tv advertise it... then it
    will be fine! mind you, GOOD olive oil is fine, everage (or mediocre)
    oil... is terrible!
    
    (I know what I am talking about because my father is, and has been, a
    producer of olive oil for over 50 years and at home we had nothing but
    the very best...)

    What are some of the brand names of good olive oil?

    I've always had good results with Filippo Berio; I use this as my
    all-purpose general cooking oil. For salads I might occasionally buy a
    small bottle of extra-virgin stuff.
    
    	/Harry

  Of brands local to MetroWest, one of the good ones is Colavita cold
  pressed. It's available in many ordinary supermarkets at reasonable
  (for cold pressed) prices.

    Salad oil = any mild somewhat sweet tasting oil.
    
    Olive oil can be this way.  I agree with the suggestion of 
    Filipe Berio (sp?); I like both the light and the darker varieties
    they have.  I've also tried, mistakenly, the World Classic brand, 
    which tastes *green* - no other word for it... it is definitely not
    so good.
    
    Peanut oil is another I use a lot, especially since you can use
    it for wok cooking as it does not burn easily at high temps.
    
    Corn oil is fine too... and readily available at reasonable prices.
    
    --L

 The Nashua Telegraph had an article on olive oil a few months ago. It went
through everything you ever would want to know about olive oils. I should
have saved it. :-)

 Imported olive oils' labels don't have to conform to any FDA regs wrt what they
call the oil, only the ones in their own country. As a result of this, I
tend to stay away from spanish oilve oils (per the article) because I can't
remember what they call the good stuff. Anyway, I remember that anything with 
virgin in the name (from italy or greece) and fine is ok too. And cold pressed
is definitely preferred.

 The Doctah

I also made the mistake of trying the World Classic olive oil.  Yuck!  Next time
I don't scrimp, I'll splurge on the Colavita or Filippo Berio which I really 
like.

Sue

    At this point I use only a good Greek Kalamata olive oil. It has sucha 
    rich fruity taste and is a beautiful light green. Wonderful just poured
    over a slice of feta cheese and fresh oregano, but I also use it for
    eveything else except popcorn and stirfrying. It's rather expensive
    raging from $10 a pint to $22 a gallon. YOu will likely one find the
    good stuff in a Greek grocery of gourmet food shop. I don't know what
    brand I am usin since it's printed in Greek.
    
    Tamzen

    I buy the "light" olive oil for regular cooking.  The expensive, and
    strong-flavored, extra-virgin stuff I save for when I am making Greek
    food that I want to have taste like olive oil.  The light oil doesn't
    have the pronounced olive oil flavor.  I use peanut oil in the wok,
    although I shouldn't eat too much of it because it kicks up my
    allergies, and use canola oil for "cooking oil" (I'm allergic to corn
    also, and sunflower oil, which I like otherwise, tastes like burned
    sunflowers seeds if it gets too hot).
    
    /Charlotte

    I like the Filippo Berio, also.  If you frequent Spags [like I do!] you
    will occasionally see it on "the wall" at the back of the store, for
    very reasonable price (less than $10 last time I bought it - these are
    the large cans which sell for about $15.99 at the market).
    
    Rgds,
    marcia

    Avocado oil (Williams Sonoma) is very good for wok cooking, although I
    must admit I haven't found many other uses for it.  Not to distract
    from the current olive oil discussion, but does anyone out there use
    avocado oil?  :^)

    Cast another vote for "Olive Oil" Virgin Cold Pressed.....I keep
    several varieties on hand.
    Olive Oil is not very good for high temperature cooking but a salad 
    dressing made with GOOD Olive Oil and any variety of good vinegars...
    malt, tarragon, balsamic and/or sherry and a package of Seven Seas
    dry salad dressing makes an outstanding accompaniment to any salad.
    For high temperature cooking Canola Oil (Puritan) is preferred due to 
    the fact that it is low in cholesterol and helps to raise the HDL level
    in your blood.
    From a health standpoint Canola Oil is better to cook with than Peanut
    Oil.
    
    P.S.  for those of you who visit the Tampa Florida area...there is an
          Olive Oil named Allesi......Virgin Cold pressed.....$7.99 per
          liter......it's such a bargain I ship a case of it back every
          vacation.
    

    Maybe I'm peculiar, but:
    
    For general cooking, when I don't want olive oil flavor, I use soy.  In
    the past I've used corn oil for baking, nice golden color.  I've
    migrated from peanut oil to soy.  Soy is very light AND inexpensive.
    
    BTW, does cottonseed have DDT in it?  If its a byproduct of the usual
    cotton crop, use of pesticides may not be regulated.  Or if they
    extract the oil, is the crop considered to be food, and subject to the
    FDA rules?
    
    I use PAM spray on baking dishes.  It works very well and is mostly
    lecithin.
    
    I'd consider using the new light olive oil (Little flavor) for general
    cooking, since it's monosaturated, which is considered very healthy. 
    Is soy polyunsatured, mono, or?
    
    Laura

RE: .18

>    For high temperature cooking Canola Oil (Puritan) is preferred due to 
>    the fact that it is low in cholesterol and helps to raise the HDL level
>    in your blood.
>
>    From a health standpoint Canola Oil is better to cook with than Peanut
>    Oil.

All vegetable oils are cholesterol-free.  Aside from the so-called "tropical
oils" (mainly palm and coconut), they are also free of saturated fats, unless,
of course, these have been artifically reintroduced by partial hydrogenation.
How, then, is canola oil superior in this respect to peanut oil?  I think you've
been reading too much food industry advertising hype.

--PSW

>How, then, is canola oil superior in this respect to peanut oil?  I think 
>you've been reading too much food industry advertising hype.

In the last few years there has been some talk about the ratios of mono-
to poly- unsaturated fats.  This has been from a few different sources, not
just the food company sponsored studies.

The findings went along the lines that in the past the thought was that mono-'s
were thought to be generally bad, but now they have been found to be good 
because they raise the HDL (? I think that's the one that's supposed to be
high).  This goes hand in hand with the medical community's new position on 
HDL vs LDL levels, etc.

The bottom line was that oils that were thought to be not good for you, like 
olive oil now have a better standing due to a good mono- to poly- ratio.  Canola
oil is supposed to be one of the best in this respect, but it has a lower smoke
point than peanut oil (if I remember correctly), so it is not as good for stir
frying.  By the way, for stir frying, Safflower Oil beats peanut in the specs. 
It's got a bit higher smoke point, and a better mono- to poly- ratio, and very
little flavor.  The price is a bit higher, though, and so far I can only find
one brand generally available (and in only one size).

    Now that I am well versed in the types of oil available and the pros
    and cons of said oil, how do I store them?  And what is the shelf life
    of these products?
    
    Thanks for the interesting discussion.

>    Now that I am well versed in the types of oil available and the pros
>    and cons of said oil, how do I store them?  And what is the shelf life
>    of these products?
    
well, the best way for long-term storage is refrigerated....however, then
the oil may go solid on you and require thawing before use.  I don't use
much oil in my cooking so I simply buy small quantities and keep the containers
well sealed between use and store them in a dark place - my pantry.  Never,
never leave oil in the sunlight - it changes it....and never leave oil out
for any length of time without sealing it from the air.  Professional cooks
use enough in a day to keep it in those nice pouring cans, but the oil can
go bad on you if you only use it once or twice a week and you store it in
one of those cans...especially if you live in an area with warm summers.

I store my good olive oil in the fridge, by the way....I simply defrost it
for an hour before using it to make salads.  I use light olive oil for
sauteing things and that keeps in the pantry.  I also use canola oil for
brushing my veggies before broiling them, etc.  and I store that in the
pantry.  I buy the real small bottles though - I spend more, but get fresh
oil.

RE: .21

I wouldn't go so far as to say "no hype".  Rather, I'd say it's "this year's
hype".  Let's face it--the medical and "nutritional science" community have
not yet sorted out the maze of relationships between diet and congestive
heart disease.  In the lipids debate, it does seem firmly established that
cholesterol and saturated fats are not particularly good for you.  Beyond
that, there isn't much agreement on anything.  One can play the food faddism
game of changing one's diet to match each new paper that gets published in
the New England Journal of Medicine, but I'd rather not.

My point is that medicine is far from the point where blanket statements such
as "canola oil is better for you than peanut oil" can be made with any
confidence.

--PSW

While we are on semi tangential material, I guess I'm doing ok on my diet, 
'cause I've actually had oil go rancid on me.  Anyone know of a good way of 
disposing of bad vegetable oil?  I don't want to flush it or bury it, and I 
don't think it'll do my compost pile any good...

  Two possibilities come to mind ...

  - burn it (in an oil lamp)
  - make soap out of it (not very appealing soap, though)

  In principle, you might be able to recycle it by giving it to a
  restaurant with a fat-recycler, but in practise, I doubt many
  restaurants would be interested.

  Also, it might burn in some diesel engines. You could try offering it
  to Fort Devens.

  Is it not a good idea to pour oil down the sink?  I've never heard any
caveats on doing this.

--Sharon

  My god, what they don't teach people in high school! You've obviously
  never had a septic system back up into your house, or you would've
  gotten the whole nine yards about what not to pour down the drain.

  If you have a private septic system, fats, grease, and oil will slowly
  but surely ruin it by clogging the holes out of which waste fluids
  exit after being digested by bacteria.

  Even if you have public sewer hookup, it's not a good idea to load it
  too heavily with fats and oils, because these things are harder to
  process into water-soluble compounds. That places a heavier load on
  whatever facility is processing the raw sewage, requiring more energy,
  use of nasty chemicals, etc etc etc blah blah blah bad for the
  environment and we're all going to hell in a handbasket anyway ...

  I assume right off that people don't dump their unused DDT down the
  drain, but fats and oils aren't great, either. So the question is:
  what exactly are we supposed to do with them? Well, I freeze them in
  old soup cans, jars, etc., and send them off to the town dump/transfer
  station. You know, honestly, I don't think that's any better a
  solution. I can only hope that whatever they're doing with our garbage
  is not too destructive. But I know better than to believe it. I dunno.
  We're eventually gonna figure out that we're poisoning ourselves and
  the planet, and maybe it won't be too late to do something about it.
  But, for the time being, at least my toilets flush, and that's my
  immediate concern.

    RE: disposing of oil
    
    I would think it perfectly all right to dispose of rancid vegetable
    oils on the compost heap.  Well, maybe not *on*, but certainly next to. 
    Vegetable oils should decompose just like any other organic matter, no?
    
    After all, we're talking about vegetable oil, not machine oil, or some
    other petroleum-based product.  I don't think you'll need to wait for
    your town to make its annual "household toxic waste collection" before
    you dispose of it. :^)  :^)
    
    

  Actually, I don't think animal and vegetable oils decompose any faster
  than petroleum-derived oils (which, after all, do come from animals,
  sort of), but I guess an important point is that they aren't toxic. So
  you can dump them near your compost pile and not worry about poisoning
  the planet. Right? I guess I don't really know. Burning them in lamps
  or heaters or M1A1 tanks is probably just as bad or worse. Before
  humankind started eating bacon, just what did happen to all that pork
  fat? There must be some friendly bacteria out there that eat it all.
  One thing I know, though: it's not good to pour it down the drain
  unless you want ... well I'd just as soon not get into the details.

    How does one know when a vegetable oil is rancid?
    
    Of course, you shouldn't put any of these oils into a diesel engine
    for the same reason that you would never put home heating fuel into
    a diesel.  (It's a violation of the tax laws.  :-))
    
    ed

>    How does one know when a vegetable oil is rancid?

  It smells moldy and tastes sour. Believe me, you'd know.

  Usually, when it first starts to go, you can still use it for a while
  without ruining the food, but when it gets really bad, it ruins
  everything it touches. Frankly, I've had oils for as long as a year or
  two and not had them go so rancid that I couldn't use them. The most
  sensitive seem to be good olive oils, and nut oils such as walnut and
  hazelnut. We go through olive oil fast enough, but we've had to ditch
  at least one bottle of walnut oil (not fun, as this stuff is
  expensive).

    Good olive oil keep up to a maximum of 3 YEARS, with NO refrigeration!
    that is what kills it, the change in temperature... my father produced
    thousands of barrels per year and they were kept in warehouses with no
    refrigeration till they were distributed to customers.  We always kept
    a large container in the basement and laddled it into bottles when
    needed... it was never tightly closed (as it needed to "breathe") and I
    remember, only once, that it became rancid on us... but it was 2 1/2
    years old!
    
    I dispose of old oil... in the fireplace! I use old oil to soak
    newspapers in it and use it as starter for lighting the fire... it
    works like a charm! it costs O and at the same time, dispose of
    something unwanted without creating any mess...

     I asked my sister about this, since she is the Director of the
     Department of Waste Reduction and Recycling (in Maine), and she
     had this to say:
        
        1. Best option is to take it to a place that renders oils and
        fats (I guess they sort of recycle them).
                   
        2. Second best: Put it in your compost heap - but be aware that
        animal fats can attract vermin.
                   
        3. Third choice: Put it in your trash and send it to the land
        fill - since it does biodegrade (albeit rather slowly) this is
        OK.  But, of course it won't biodegrade in a plastic bottle!
                              
    She didn't think much of the idea of burning the oil, since it
    probably won't burn very cleanly.

RE: .30

>  Actually, I don't think animal and vegetable oils decompose any faster
>  than petroleum-derived oils (which, after all, do come from animals,
>  sort of), but I guess an important point is that they aren't toxic.

They most definitely do decompose faster than petroleum-derived oils.
Petroleum-derived oils are long straight or branch-chained hydrocarbons.
Animal and vegetable fats and oils are glycerol triesters of monocarboxylic
acids of unbranched hydrocarbons.  With a few rare exceptions, living
creatures cannot directly metabolize petroleum-derived oils, while they can
and do readily digest animal and vegetable fats and oils.  Oil goes rancid
in the first place because it is converted into various aldehydes,
carboxylic acids, and alochols by bacteria.

--PSW

Thanks for the ideas!

The oil I have is slightly cloudy and is just starting to taste off.  I used
to consume oil in sufficient quantities that I would always look for the big
sizes.  Over the last year and a half, I think I've used about a pint, so the
large surplus I've had stored under the sink has had a chance to age.  

I think I will pour into a hole near the compost pile.  Maybe I'll even 
experiment with it on the local mosquito population... I own the local swamp
ya know...

    RE: storing vegetable oils in the refrigerator.
    
    No problem!  If the bottle's label isn't metallic, you can nuke the
    bottle for a few seconds and the oil will melt enough to pour.  Or you
    can place it on its side in the sink and let hot tap water run over it. 
    It works very quickly.
    
    Funny story about that:  Long, long ago, when I was single, I didn't
    keep soda or juice in the fridge, just drank tap water.  The only
    bottles in the fridge had cooking oil.  Some poor unsuspecting
    suitor opens the fridge for a nice cold drink.  He sees the bottles of
    nice yellow fluid, thinks they are a lemon drink, and is about to pour
    a glass. . . Talk about getting grossed out!
    
    Laura