Conference turris::cooks

    I am looking for a recipe for cinnamon rolls that my sister
    got back in 1969-70. The recipe which uses flour, sugar, etc
    does not include any yeast and therefore can be made up
    quickly. Does anyone have a recipe for quick c. rolls?

    	Have you ever tried the cinnamon rolls that come in a can sold
    in the refrigerator section at the grocery store? I think they are
    pretty good for something fast. You just pop the can open, bake
    for 20 minutes and top with icing (the icing comes in the can).
    
    	There's nothing like home made cinnamon rolls, but these are
    not bad for canned.
    
    

    One way to make quick cinnamon rolls is to make a baking powder
    biscuit recipe, roll it to about 1/2 in. thick, brush it with melted
    butter sprinkle with cinnimon and sugar, then roll it like a jelly
    roll. Slice and bake.
    
    Pat

    
    I've seen note 475, and that's no help.
    
    I'm looking for a recipe for those big, soft, gooey cinnamon rolls
    that you can buy at places like T.J.Cinnamon's...  These things
    are killers, at about 350 calories a shot, smothered with
    confectioner's sugar frosting (need a recipe for that, as well).
    
    The dough is rolled out, marked off, and then covered with a pat
    of butter every 2 inches or so.
    
    There's a mixture of sugar, brown sugar, and something else (little
    red specks in there) that's sprinkled on generously, then the whole 
    thing is just smothered with cinnamon, then rolled up, divided,
    and baked on end.
    
    These things range from little ones about the size of a baby's fist,
    all the way up to Clydesdale's hoofs.
    
    Any help appreciated.  (Think I could bribe an employee?  HMM!)
    
    Bill

    these take some time (thats why MOM makes them!) - either that or
    we spend a day baking and this is one of the things we make.  The
    good thing is, you can whip up some other things while this is rising
    etc.  
    p.s. Bill, I love tuna casserole and meatloaf.  Beefaroni I'm not
    so sure about!  (Send your Grandma's over, we'll have a bake-off!)
    8-)
    
    Mom's Cinnamon Rolls
    
    1 pkg dry yeast
    1/4 cup water
    1 Cup milk, scalded
    1 Cup + 2 TBSP sugar
    2 TBSP shortening (crisco)
    1 tsp salt
    3 1/2 Cups flour
    1 egg
    1/2 cup melted butter
    3 tsp cinnamon
    
    Soften yeast in warm water (110 degrees).  Combine milk, sugar,
    shortening and salt.  Cool to lukewarm.  Add 1 Cup of flour and
    beat well.  Beat in yeast and egg.  Gradually add remaining flour
    to form soft dough, beating well.  Cover and let rise in warm place
    till double (1 1/2 - 2 hours).  Turn onto lightly floured surface
    and divide in 2.  Roll out one half to 16x8 rectangle.  Combine
    1/2 Cup sugar, 1/4 cup melted butter, and 1 1/2 tsp cinnamon.  Spread
    on dough.  Roll lenghtwise like jelly roll.  Cut  into 1" slices.
     Place cut sides down in greased 9x9x2 pan (I've used both square
    and round). Cover and let rise till double (30-40 min.)  Bake at
    375 for 20-25 min. Drizzle with icing.
    
    ICING:
    
    Thin vanilla frosting with a little milk till pourable but NOT TOO
    watery.
    
    
       

    
    re .5 - in your receipe for the cinnamon rolls, you said to beat
    the dough.  Are you saying that you don't knead it, you just beat
    it??  I have always kneaded any rolls that I have made, so want
    to be sure I read this correctly.
    
    Thanks.  I plan to try these really soon.
    
    

    Possible fatal mistake...
    
       1 tsp of salt.
    
    I got into it, then realized no measurement...  Had to look up recipe.
    
    BTW, that 45 minutes is a bit of an underestimate.  I'd say it's
    more like an hour; total time from first measuring cup in flour
    to rolls out of the oven, something like 3 hours.
    
    Make sure your rolls are *really* golden brown.  These rolls come
    out very moist, and if you don't cook them all the way, they taste
    doughy. (I had to stick them back in oven!)  I also used a 9 by
    13 pan, instead of 2 nine inch cake pans, and the middle ones kinda
    deflated - my guess from not cooking enough, although they tasted
    alright.
    
    Bill.

    RE .8>
    
    I tried this recipe with my wife this past weekend and it made T-H-E
    B-E-S-T cinnamon rolls I have ever had!  We added 3/4 cup of raisins
    to the filling...Mmmmmmmmm!   Don't do what we did though; we added the
    raisins while making the filling.  It made it difficult to mix and
    spread.  I recommend that you do everything as described in .8.  To add
    the raisins, to so after spreading the filling on the rolled out dough. 
    You can then simply sprinkle the raisins evenly.   Make this recipe....
    you won't be sorry.
    
    
    On another related topic,  Does anyone out there have a really
    unbelievable recipe for  P-E-C-A-N  R-O-L-L-S ???  
    
    Thanks
    
    David

   I love Cinnamon rolls, but, here in Italy, I cannot find the recipe.
    
    Can anyone please help me ???
    
    Thanks very much for your cooperation from myself, but especially
    from my friends who are VERY willing of testing these goodies !!!
    
    Ciao,
    		paola

    
    
    When I was young my Mom used to make cinammon rolls from the left-over
    pie pastry when she made pies.
    
    It's easy!  Just use your standard pie pastry.  Roll the dough out flat
    to about an eighth of an inch and sprinkle brown sugar and cinammon
    over top.  Roll the dough up and cut into 1 - 2 inch long pieces and
    pop them into the oven at 375 F for 8 - 10 minutes or until rolls start
    turning light brown.
    
    There you go!  Have fun!!!
    

    Hmmm.  Most people would think of the "risen" kind when they make
    cinnamon rolls.  Here is a recipe I like.  (Don't tell my wife--she
    likes her mother's recipe).  Sorry I don't have time to convert the
    measurements:

    2   pkgs yeast
    1/2 cup warm water
    1   tsp sugar
    1   cup warm milk
    1/2 cup butter
    2/3 cup sugar
    4-1/2 to 5 cups flour
    1   tbl vanilla
    1/2 tsp
    2 eggs

    Proof yeast with warm water and 1 tsp of sugar.  Put warm milk,
    butter and remaining sugar in medium sized mixing bowl. Beat in 2 cups
    of flour to a smooth batter.  Add vanilla, salt, eggs.  Beat 2 minutes
    with electric mixer on medium speed.  Remove to floured surface and
    work in enough flour to have a smooth dough.  Place dough in a greased
    bowl and let rise in a warm place until double (1 hour).  Punch down
    and let rise again.

    To shape rolls:

    Pat dough out on floured surface to form a rectangle about 8x12 in.
    Spread surface of dough with about 4 tbl margarine (or butter).  Dust
    it lightly in a mixture of 1/2 cup packed brown sugar, 1 tsp cinnamon,
    1/2 cup chopped pecans or raisins.  Beginning with the widest side, roll
    up jelly-roll fashion.  Keep roll seam-side-down.  Cut into 1" thick
    slices, placing cut-side down in greased 9x12x2 baking pan.  Let rise
    til doubled.  Bake 350F--about 30 min.  Soon as rolls are out of oven
    drizzle with thin vanilla glaze (makes about 15 rolls)

    Vanilla Glaze:

    Into blender put 3 tbl milk, 2 tbl margarine (or butter), 1 tsp
    vanilla, dash salt and 2 cups powdered sugar.  Blend on high speed till
    smooth.  Drizzle over hot cinnamon rolls.

    [ From "Gloria Pitzer's Better Cookery Cookbook (The Best of the Recipe
            Detective" pp. 203. ] 

     Gloria Pitzer is best known for "reverse engineering" various fast
    food recipes, but her cookbooks also contain a lot of good traditional
    recipes.  She has the "real" Mrs. Field's cookie recipe (as well as
    several other famous ones).  If you long for White Castle burgers or
    want to make your own oreos--this is the place to look.

    They are only available from the author, for more info send a postcard
    to:

    	Secret Recipes
        P.O. Box 152
        St. Clair, MI  48079

    There are some cinnamon rolls recipes scattered throughout this notesfile.
    Do a 'dir/title=cinnamon'.
    
    In particular, the cinnamon roll recipe at 1368.8 (also .9) is very, 
    very good. (I remembered using more flour than usual though)
    
    Remember to use the correct temperature of water/milk to dissolve the
    yeast to ensure that the dough will rise properly.  Otherwise you will
    probably end up with cinnamon brick... 8)
    
    Stella

    another question....when do you sift flour? What exactltly does the
    sifting do?
                                                              
    Mike
    

    Regarding the heated oven for rising:
    
    I've typically preheated the oven (as you did) and then turn it off
    when I put the bread dough in to rise.  The one time I kept reheating
    the oven periodically to keep it warm, the dough was not as good. I
    suspect that it's overkilling the yeast.  Basically you want a warm
    environment - keeping the oven door shut should keep the dough warm
    enough. Reheating the oven is probably too much.
    

    
    Does the recipe call for 5 cups of "sifted flour" or 5 cups of "flour
    sifted"? There is a big difference, or does the recipe not mention
    sifting at all. I have several bread recipies that don't ask you
    to sift the flour.  Also, most bread recipies don't take an exact
    quantity of flour, it usually says 5 or 6 cups or something like
    that. It sounds like you might be killing your yeast by using the
    oven to let it rise.
    
    +pat+

    I'd preheat the oven to its lowest setting.  Fast rising seems to
    create larger air bubbles, which makes the bread harder to slice
    and generally ruins the texture.  Also, putting the heat on will
    make a hard crust and dry the dough out.  I usually raise my
    dough, covered, in the middle section of my gas stove, away from
    the pilot lights but still in an area that's warmer than the rest
    of the kitchen.  I would not use an oven temperature higher than
    about 125 F. 
    
    --Louise

    I never sift flour for bread and haven't made any bread that calls
    for the flour to be sifted.  Did your recipe want it sifted?
    
    Sifting loosens all of the granules so there are no lumps and no
    granules stuck together.  That's not always good.
    
    ed

    THE TECHNIQUES I USE FOR ALLOWING DOUGH TO RISE IS:
       
      1.  IF IT'S A SUNNY DAY, I COVER THE BOWL WITH A TOWEL AND SET THE
          BOWL OF DOUGH ON OUR DECK IN THE SUN.  IT RISES IN NO TIME!
    
      2.  IF IT'S NOT SUNNY, I COVER THE BOWL AND PLACE IT ON AN UPPER 
          SHELF OF THE OVEN.  I THEN PLACE A PAN OR POT OF ***HOT***
          WATER ON A SHELF UNDER THE BOWL.  SEEMS TO WORK GREAT.
    
    HOPE THIS HELPS.   KITTY

    Hi.  I make bread as a second income and have found, through trial and
    error, a few tricks that may or may not help you.
    
    I don't let dough rise IN the oven.  I turn the oven on to 350 degrees
    and put the bowls of rising dough next to the oven to let it rise.  I
    cover the bowl with saran wrap and then a damp towel.  The oven radiates 
    enough heat so that the temperature of the room is about 80 degrees....
    which is just right and is not near any drafts.  I usually bake
    about 15 loaves (different varieties) at a time...so I am constantly
    mixing, punching down and baking.
    
    I do not sift the flour.  If it calls for 4 cups I measure out the 4
    cups of all-purpose (white) flour and start mixing in the other 
    ingredients. In making my wheat and rye bread the flour texture is lighter
     - but I still do not sift.
    
    Sugar will make bread rise faster - salt slows that process down.
    In 'proofing' the yeast - the temperature of the water should be 
    about 100 - 105 degrees - just about the same as body temperature,
    so remember that it should feel 'tepid'.  Water that is too hot
    will kill the yeast - and water that's not hot enough will not activate 
    it.
    
    Bread that starts browning too fast in the oven can be covered by
    alumininum foil.  Brush milk on oatmeal bread - right out of the oven
    and that will give it a nice 'glow'.  An egg wash (beaten egg and
    water) can be spread on wheat and white half way through the baking
    process.   Covering bread while it cools will make a soft crust -
    leaving it uncovered will make a crisp crust.  In baking wheat and rye
    - sprinkle corn meal in the pan and on top of the bread before baking.
    
    After you take the bread out of the oven lay it on its side - til cool.
    
    Hope this helps.
    
    Marilyn
    

    I made the TJ Cinnamon rolls about 3 weeks ago. They were absolutely
    the best cinnamon rolls I have ever made!  A few tips that help me when
    I make bread:
    
    Never sift flour for bread dough.  If the recipe calls for 4 to 5 cups
    of flour, I usually start out with 3 cups and mix until the batter is
    smooth.  I add the remaining flour in 1/2 to 1/4 cup segments, 
    adding just enough flour until the dough has can be turned out onto a
    floured surface and kneaded to a smooth and elastic consistency, but
    still SLIGHTLY sticky.  By this time, I am adding flour in tablespoon
    mesurements. The amount of flour can vary each time you make bread,
    just by the amount of humidity in the air on that particular day!
    Knead the dough about 10 minutes. It takes practice! Don't be
    discouraged.
    
    I never heat the oven to raise bread.  I cover it with a towel, and
    place it in an unheated oven (the pilot light is enough to keep it
    warm).  The main thing to remember when letting dough rise, is to keep
    it out of a cool, drafty area. The microwave oven would even be a good 
    place to let the dough rise.
    
    Hope this helps!
    deb copeland   
                                       

   When I bake bread, I put about an inch of warm water in my roasting pan,
place the bowl with the dough in the pan, and cover the bowl.  Then I just
leave it on top of the stove, or whereever.  My mother-in-law puts the
dough in the oven, and leaves the oven light turned on, which apparently
generates enough warmth.  (Note that you must have the type of oven where
you can manually turn the light on with the oven door closed)

   I recently discovered that if you refrigerate your yeast, that you 
should allow it to come to room temperature before using it.  I didn't
realize this for a long time, but it does seem to make a difference.

--Sharon_whose_loves_Beard_on_Bread

    This conference is great! I never expected so many responses so
    quick! Yesterday was my second time baking any kind of bread. I
    had tried years ago and it never rose or came out like bricks!
    Finally someone explained to me about proofing the yeast. I did
    that this past weekend and made rolls which rose and came out great!
    However, yesterday when I made the T.J. Rolls, ugh! They tated like
    they were a week old! I was all set to quit again...until I read
    all this info, so I will try again this week!
    
    Would it be o.k. to turn my electric stove on 250 - 350, leave
    the oven door closed, and place the bread in the bowl (covered with
    a damp towel??) in the middle on TOP of the oven?  If I chose to
    place it in the unheated oven, how often should I replace the hot
    water that is in the bowl underneath it?
                                          
    I know that these are probally ridiculous questions!! Thanks for
    all the info so far! I let you know what happens on my next batch!
    
    Mike

    I've had some success using the microwave to raise bread dough; it
    significantly reduces the time involved and gives me consistently good
    results.
    
    Put one cup of water into a microwave-safe two-cup measure and bring it
    to a boil (about five minutes or so in the microwave); once it's
    boiling, stop the oven and put your greased bowl with the dough,
    covered, into the oven along with the water. Set your oven for 10
    minutes at its' lowest power setting (on mine it's 10), and then leave
    the bowl in the oven for an additional 20 minutes. It will have risen
    to just about twice its' original bulk at the end of the 30 minutes.
    
    Good luck.
    
    	/Harry

    It's me again. My recipe did not say to sift the flour. I did because
    I thought you were always supposed to sift. I guess unless it specifies
    it, I shouldn't.  Try, try again!
    
    Mike 

    
    Most flour sold in grocery stores today dosen't need sifting for
    most recipies.  I bake all the time, and I haven't used a flour
    sifter in at least 10 years.

    
    	Well, this just shows you how many different ways there are to
    raise yeast bread.  I never let my yeast come to room temperature,
    and I NEVER proof it.
    	My recipe (a known favorite in my family) all the dry ingredients
    are put in a mixing bowl, put in yeast and butter, and then pour
    hot water in while the mixer is running.  Beat for a couple of minutes,
    add more flour, beat a couple of more minutes, then you're suppose
    to mix the rest of the flour in by hand, not me.  I dump it in the
    mixer.
    	But I do have a bread bowl for the final kneading.  Its about
    18 inches long, 10 inches wide (quessing on size).  The dough rises
    in this, I put saran wrap and a towel over it and let it rise on
    the kitchen counter, which takes about an hour.  
    
    	Linda 
    

    re: .13
    
    That's an interesting point about the drawbacks of microwave
    dough-raising; when I have the time, I turn the electric heat up to
    about 85 (in the winter) in the small bathroom off the back hallway,
    put a humidifier in there to combat the dryness, and let my doughs rise
    in there (I also have an electric stove). That seems to work okay.
    
    	/Harry

    King Arthur Flour has a video on bread baking that's very good for
    explaining the basics step-by-step (and it only hypes King Arthur
    a little). 
    
    Not sure where you are, but the Alexander's supermarket in 
    Merrimack, NH, lends it out for free. 
    
    Kate
    

    Re .8
    
    I'd like to make these cinnamon rolls when my brother-in-law and his
    wife come up since they love the TJ Cinnamon rolls, but I have a
    question.  Is it possible to make the dough the night before and leave
    it in the refrigerator to rise slowly, or take it out for an hour in
    the morning to complete the rising?  I don't want to have to start at
    7:00 am so that we can have breakfast by 10:00.  Any ideas, or should I
    just opt for something else for breakfast?
    
    
    Cathy

    I don't know if this will work for cinnamon rolls, but I cook plain
    rolls for about 1/3 to 1/2 the baking time then cool and refrigerate.
    Finish the cooking before serving. (Kind of like brown and serve rolls
    you buy at the supermarket!)

    I just put the bread dough in a greased mixing bowl, cover it with a
    dish towel, and leave it on the end of the kitchen table that is over
    the kitchen heat register - usually rises in an hour.  Sometimes I use
    the new fast-rising yeast - some people have claimed they can taste the
    difference and prefer normal yeast, but no one in my family can, and it
    is somewhat faster, at least for the first rising.

    The dough will probably rise OK overnight in the refrigerator, but try
    it before you plan a brunch for guests around this scheme working, just
    in case.  I have a couple of coffee-cake recipes that we always make
    this way, and of course croissants (though they are off my husband's
    diet these days), and they work fine.

   I had heard that what makes T.J. Cinnamon's rolls so unique is that they
use ground up red-hots in the filling.  Funny, I don't see any such directions
in this "authentic" recipe!! ;-)  

   If anybody feels gutsy enough to try this twist, let us know how it turns
out!

--Sharon

    I have made dough and have experienced many different batches. 
    Sometimes I make it and use it and sometimes I freeze it.  Has anyone
    got any suggestions on how to freeze dough (wrapping, etc) and weather
    or not to let the dough rise before freezing or not.  This batch stuck
    to the pan (I did use cornmeal) more than normally.  Not enough flour?
    

  For anyone who's interested in delving into the world of bread baking -
my husband gave me Beard on Bread for Valentine's Day, and I've had a 
BLAST ever since.  Every weekend, I've made a different kind of bread,
and even sometimes a loaf during the week if I'm up for it!

  Beard gives a lot of useful hints, too.  The introductory recipes is
about TEN pages long!

--Sharon

The reason why most bread recipes say to adjust the flour and water
measurements is due the fact that flour is more than moderately hydroscopic 
(absorbs water from the air) and the time of year and humidity are important
variables. What this means is that the 'feel' of the dough is something you
have to acquire if you want great bread 100% of the time.  Even when it's not
great, though, it's almost always good.

Proofing yeast is a professional step taken to avoid wasting a
hundred pounds of flour on bad yeast; it also gets the yeast started a bit,
decreasing the rising time.

Most of the bread recipes I follow don't give times for rising; rather, they
specify volumes.  Depending on the recipe, a variance of 200% is not uncommon.
If it takes longer to rise, it will have a yeastier flavor, that's all.
You can actually give bread its second rise in the refrigerator overnight.
If the temp gets much over 125, you'll have streaks in the bottom of the bread
where the yeast has died.

Almost any one of Julia Child's cookbooks has detailed information on French
breadmaking; (the latest book is the best.)  The _New Chez Panisse Cookbook_, by
Paul Bertolli and Alice Waters, has an extended discussion of spontaneously-
leavened (starter) breads, like you get at the fancy _nouveau_ restaurants like
Stars and Chez Panisse. It also contains a good troubleshooting guide.

John

If you really wish to learn about baking bread, I recommend that you either
find a helpful grandmother to walk you through the process - or find THE
TASSAJARA BREAD BOOK.  I had no helpful grandmother handy (neither of mine
could cook at all) and I learned all I needed to know from this one cookbook.

By the way, my friends claim I bake the best bread in the world.....but then,
any freshly baked bread is pretty darn good!  8^}

    RE: .22
    
    The longer the dough rises, the yeastier it tastes?  I have recently
    started baking breads and find that the taste is TOO 'yeasty' for me.
    Would it help if I didn't let the dough rise as long?  I generally 
    let it rise at room temperature, and then punch it down and let it
    rise again.  I read somewhere that this is supposed to make a 
    'lighter' bread.  The texture is good, but the yeast flavor is too
    strong.

    What is the flavor of yeast?
    
    Try using less and letting the bread rise longer.  (just a guess)
    
    ed

    Try punching it down sooner. Two risings should not make the bread more
    `yeasty', it should make it's texture finer.
    
    I learned by reading and experience that bread will taste `yeasty' if
    you let the dough rise too long before punching it down. In other
    words, don't let it rise more than double in bulk.  You should use one
    envelope (2 1/2 tsp.) of dry yeast for 4-6 cups of flour. 

If you do let the bread rise too long (more than double original bulk),
simply work it some more.....in other words, knead it well, form a ball,
and let it rise.  Remember, each time it rises, it rises quicker...

A "yeasty" flavor may also be due to the fact that you have not started
the baking process in a pre-heated oven.  Once you start baking, you
want to get to the point at which the yeast dies fairly quickly so it
won't reproduce like mad while warming up.  Pre-heat the oven to 350
degrees F. before baking.  

Also, the big problem with getting strong yeast flavor ---- you may not
have kneaded the bread long enough.  If you work it by hand, this is quite
probable...work it until your arms are ready to fall off - and then do
it for 15 more minutes...8^}

  I recently learned of a bread-baking catalog called THE BREADBASKET that
caters to the bread baker's every need - they sell all sorts of flours, 
tools, pans, risers, etc.  If anyone is interested in getting a copy of 
their catalog, you can call them at 1-800-6BREAD1.  

  They also have a newsletter called THE BAKING SHEET that has a membership 
fee, and you receive a newsletter four times a year.  With each newsletter
is an information sheet on a particular type of flour, along with a 
recipe that uses that flour, and enough of that flour to make the recipe.
[My first issue contained a recipe for a Pecan Oat Bread, the flour
sample being Oat Flour.]

--Sharon

>      I recently learned of a bread-baking catalog called THE BREADBASKET that
>caters to the bread baker's every need - they sell all sorts of flours, 
>tools, pans, risers, etc.  If anyone is interested in getting a copy of 
>their catalog, you can call them at 1-800-6BREAD1.  

    I just called the number to get on the mailing list. The woman (Betsy)
    asked me where I had heard about the catalog, and I mentioned the
    Digital computer network. She laughed and said "Tell whoever did
    that for us, that Betsy says THANKS". 
    
    Seems she's had a lot of calls from Noters!!
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