Conference turris::cooks

    Why can't you cook with nutrasweet?

    How about Sweet n Low??
    
    Lee

    re:.2  When Nutrasweet first came out, there were some studies which
    showed that bringing Nutrasweet about a certain temp. (120F or so)
    would turn it into a carcinogen (sp?). I was living in Phoenix at the
    time and it was an Arizona Steve U. study since you could potentially
    leave you diet Coke out in the sun and have it get above 120F. There
    was a lot of uproar over it with the Nutrasweet people saying it wasn't
    a valid study, etc. Anyway, since then I've seen Nutrasweet in cooked
    pudding, etc. so I'm not sure if the don't cook with it caveat still
    holds. But if you're concerned, don't cook with it.
    
    Debbie
    

I heard that it breaks down, loosing its sweetening ability.

Now, I know a MAJOR use of it is in coffee, so it must be able to take that
level of heat.  I'm not sure it would stand up to baking, though.  I have not 
seen any nutrasweet products that require cooking  (as opposed to ones that
require the addition of hot water, like cocoa).  Every time I've taken a close
look at the ingredients of some atrificially sweetened product that must be 
cooked, I find it contains sodium- or calcium-saccharine.  I'll see if I can
track down anything further on the subject. 

re .4, what brand of pudding have you found that contains nutrasweet, and 
  requires cooking??

(((
 I had also heard that soda fountain syrups experienced some breakdown of 
 nutrasweet and so soda fountains only dispense saccharine style diet soda...
 don't know if there is any validity to this or not
 )))

    If you cook (pudding etc) with nutrasweet (NS), stir the NS in at
    the end of the cooking period.  Otherwise it will not sweeten the
    food as it should - it really does get less sweet.  Also, NS sweetened
    stuff does not last weeks and weeks in the fridge.  It will decrease
    in sweetening power.  (I only found that out when I forgot something
    in the fridge.  Usually desserts don't hang around long enough for
    such tests....)
    
    That leaves out using NS for baked goods - it's hard to stir NS into
    a cake after it's baked for 30 minutes!  There was some new stuff on
    the market around here.  It could be used in baking and was not
    Saccharine, I think.  
    
    Saccharine can be used in baking.  I think it tastes horrible, though.
    
    If you can get away with it, fructose can be used in baking.  I'm not
    sure how that works with diabetics...I thought some was allowed since
    it absorbs much less quickly than sucrose or glucose.  It probably 
    would be figured in with your fruit allowances, but best to ask your
    doctor.
    
    --Louise

RE: .6

The body metabolizes fructose by converting it to glucose, so it's hardly any
better for diabetics.

--PSW

    The best idea!!  Eat FRESH fruits, as allowed in your fruit allowance
    less fattening (no added starches) great for fiber; and it should
    take care of the sweet tooth.  As diabetics we have to give up
    a few things, but can live normal lives as long as we adher to a
    few rules.  It is not that hard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      

It says on the Equal box that prolong high temperatures causes nutrasweet to 
loose its sweetening power.  (I knew I saw it somewhere.)  It also gives a 
recipe for "candy bars" that are baked then sprinkled with Equal after removing
them from the oven.  There is also an offer for an Equal cookbook that might
interest you.

Re: fructose... isn't this what makes fruit sweet, too?  I thought the problem 
in a diabetic's system was dealing with the sugar in large doses.  And that some
forms of carbos are ok (in reasonable amounts) because they are converted to 
sugar gradually.  Since I started dieting, I know I can feel the difference 
sugar vs. fruit vs. starch makes on my blood sugar.  Sugar gives me the snoozes
in about 30 minutes, while fruit and starch don't.  Starch provides me with a
moderate level, longer duration of energy whereas fruit give ma a "quick fix".

As an aside, in my nutritional training, blood sugar level was discussed at 
length (not as it applies to hypoglycemia or diabetes).  Some of the noticable
symptoms of low blood sugar are irritability and agressiveness.  Studies have 
that the average American experiences very low blood sugar around 4-5 pm (when
the afternoon cookie break wears off).  I find it interesting that one is likely
to be irratable or agressive just in time for rush hour.  Since then I've been 
saving an apple to eat just before my commute home.  And it HAS made a 
difference!

    re .7 - yeah, the body takes almost EVERYTHING and tries to turn
    it into glucose, including starches like pasta and rice.  However,
    the speed at which things are broken down varies.  I thought it
    was this speed that affected diabetics, in that things that break
    down quickly dump loads of glucose into the system at one time, and
    things that break down slowly release glucose into the system at
    a slower rate, thus not causing the "sugar high/sugar blues" or
    diabetic attacks.  Perhaps someone who's a diabetic can verify this?
    
    --Louise

re: forbidden goodies

while fruit is great, it isn't "forbidden" and that makes it the less 
attractive option for dessert....sometimes, you wanna splurge.  My grandmother
was insulin-dependent and her one splurge was:

	a cream puff....think about it...it's all air.  You can add very
	small amounts of fructose to the whipped cream, along with a
	teaspoon of vanilla, and get it to taste sweet.  The amount of
	PUFF used, once you pull out all the insides to make room for
	the cream, is very small.

Gram Alice's doctor told her she could have one of these when she HAD to have
forbidden food.  I'm sure he taught her how to figure out how to balance it
properly...and you could use nutrasweet to sweeten the cream these days, which
Gram Alice couldn't do.

Mind you, the fat content in the cream makes it less than ideal for diet food,
and it sure ain't healthy, but it does fit into the limitations surrounding
a diabetic diet better than any other "sweet" I can think of.

You can learn to make  your own puffs very easily.  The recipe for the pastry
is in any baking book and they are easy to do.

    I didn't disappear after writing the Base Note, just been
    extraordinarily busy this week, even at night at home.
    
    Thank you all for your wonderful comments and suggestions. They are
    greatly appreciated.
    
    Yesterday I had all my medical appointments, and when I was with my
    dietician I asked her about the equivalencies.....Also, asked her to
    talk to the head chef at the hospital.  She is going to check with
    Dick today and see what he does in the kitchens.  
    
    The main question I was asking was different than most people
    understood.  The packets of Equal, Sweet Ones, etc. are equal to
    2 tsp. of sugar....Yes....But what I wanted to know was this.  
    A packet is equal to the SWEETNESS of 2 tsp. sugar (at least that is
    how I interpreted it to mean.  Using too much of any of the subs will
    turn everything bitter and horrible tasting.  So I guess my question
    was two fold.....How much to use and how sweet will it equal.  
    
    Then yesterday I bought a copy of The New Cookbook for Diabetics".  I
    sat down last evening and poured through the opening chapters, as they
    are devoted to education about diabetes.  There, lo and behold, buried
    in a tiny paragraph at the end of the chapter on sugar substitutes was
    a one sentence blurb that gave equivalencies..  i.e., 1 packet = 2 tsp
    and then gave a couple of bigger ones......1/4 cup = 6 Packets; 1/2 c.
    = 12 packets.   All I could think of was that to make cookies or a cake
    or some such, I'll be tearing up little packets till the cows come
    home.  But I guess we have to sacrifice something now and then for the
    sake of enjoying what must be accomplished.
    
    I think that when I have tried and tested some of the recipes and see
    how they come out I will try to start a Note for diabetic recipes. 
    Perhaps there is someone out there like me who is getting frustrated at
    the newness and restrictions of insulin dependency.  It could be a lot
    more fun if things weren't so confusing and hard to comprehend.  
    
    Again, thank you all for you help.  You were all, basically, right. 
    The only thing the dietician did tell me (and this might only apply to
    me, I don't know) is that fructose used in cooking adds far too much
    sugar into the system to be used safely.....So, tearing little packets
    will have to do I guess.
    
    Thanks again.....
    
    Barbara

    Yeah, insulin dependent diabetes can be a real pain in the upper arm.
    Euyell(sp?) Gibbons' brother has a book out something like "Feast On A  
    Diabetic Diet". It has many ideas on how to make diabetic deserts.
    This is all pre-equal and includes exchanges, menus, tips etc. There is
    a certian amount of commentary in the book and he even touchs on how
    increased exercise influences his control..Good luck.
    						Pat

    You might want to get the Equal cookbook, too - I think I remember it
    talking about not using it in baked goods because of the breakdown at
    sustained high temperatures.  There are probably some structural
    changes or other chemical reactions that will be different than using
    sugar or honey.  When using a new product, I like to start with the
    manufacturer's recommendations first, then start experimenting - saves
    a certain amount of reinventing the wheel!  The book has appetizers,
    main dishes, side dishes, desserts, etc.
    
    Good luck!
    
    Terry
    

    I found that the max number of packets I can reliably tear and empty
    without leaving lots of equal in the packets, or lots of paper in the
    food is 3.  Wouldn't it be great if they came out with quater cup
    packets?

    My wife is a diabetic and I do most of the cooking so I am always on
    the prowl for reduced sugar recipes.  I buy brown and white granulated
    sugar replacements in the grocery store as these can be substituted up
    to 1/2 cup in equal amounts to regular granulated sugar.  So there is
    no reason to tear up all those little packages and you can bake with
    this also.  We had 21 people over for New Year's Day and 4 of them were
    diabetic.  I made a carrot cake from a diabetic cookbook using the
    white sugar substitute and every one raved about it.  Even the
    non-diabetics.  Believe me I am one of those people who has an
    insatiable sweet tooth and I even found it to satisfy my craving.  I
    will bring in the recipe and post it tomorrow.

I used the brown sugar substitute once.  It had a definite flavor of its own.
Much like saccharin, but not as intense.  The result was acceptable, but I 
wouldn't use it again.  However, I'm just looking for a caloric reduction, not
a solution to blood sugar problems.

    Well then I will post the recipe for those whe are looking for a
    solution to a blood sugar problem.  If I read correctly the base noter
    mentioned insulin dependency.  

I gues what I meant to say is the brown sugar substitute was ok.  If I had a 
blood sugar problem, or was cooking for someone who did, I would use it.  

The good thing about it is that they tell you on the box how to make it
substitute for real sugar without having your recipe flop.

    FYI There is now a Diabetics notes file.  It is located on
    MAY28::Diabetics.  However you must contact MAY28::Yuryan to gain
    access to it.