Conference turris::cooks

    A couple of days ago I heard someone explain how to make southern
    fried chicken on the radio.  Sounded simple enough. Here goes:
    
    1-egg
    1C-BUTTERmilk
    1-fryer chicken (cut up)
    1-2C-Cornmeal
    
    Beat egg and buttermilk together in a bowl.  Dip chicken in buttermilk
    mixture and then coat with cornmeal and fry!
    
    laura

I've never tried it with cornmeal, but mine is much the same.

Cut up  a  chicken  and soak it in salt water (pulls the blood out and also
wets the chicken good).

Mix and egg with buttermilk (I often also put my salt and pepper in here).

Roll the chicken in the milk mixture and then in sifted flour.

Put the chicken  in  HOT  grease  (heated to just below the point where you
will burn the flour  before  the chicken gets done).  Cover the pan and let
it fry.

Also, if you want extra  crispy, take the chicken out of the water, roll it
in flour, then the milk mixture, and end with a second coating of flour.

Irene

    Well, heres still a different one...heat oil in large pan...one
    that can be covered...get cut up chicken....in saucepan add two
    eggs and tbsp or so of milk.....to this put tbsp of parsley flakes
    in hand, crush, and add to egg mixture....also salt and pepper to
    taste.....in other saucepan add plain breadcrumbs....or buy milk
    crackers and roll very fine to make breadcrumbs...to the plain
    breadcrumbs add 1-2 tsp parsley, 1/2 tsp EACH marjoram, crushed basil,
    thyme, mace....1/8..or few dashes white, red, and black pepper...
    
    mix all.....roll chicken in egg wash, then crumb, then egg wash,
    then crumb and add to hot oil ( oil is about 1" deep)....when all
    chicken added cover, lower heat, turn periodically....forget how
    long the whole thing takes.....
    
    When I make this I dont measure anything.....so you can add or subtract
    according to your likes etc.
    
    Enjoy
    
    Rick

    This is "Surrey" Fried Chicken.
    
    For those of you who don't know,Surrey is a county in England (U.K.)
    It's a sort of Home grown recipe adapted from one I picked up in
    America.
    
    Ingredients.
    
    	2 Chickens skinned and jointed.
    	1 Cup Flour.
    	2Tsp Salt.
    	4 Tsp Paprika.
    	1/2 Tsp Cayenne.
    	2 Crushed garlic cloves.
    	1 Tsp French Mustard.
    	1 Cup of chili sauce.
    	2 Eggs.Beaten.
    	Dash of Tabasco
    	3 Tbs. Grated Parmesan Cheese.
    	Salt and Pepper to taste.
    	Oil for frying.(I use Sunflower )
    
    
    Method.
    
    Mix Chili a little oil, eggs,pepper and tabasco.
    Marinate chicken in this mixture overnight.
    
    Mix together all other ingredients except oil for frying and put
    in a bowl or bag.
    Drain Chicken bits and coat with the  mixture in bowl or bag.
    
    Then simply deep fry chicken till done 5-9 minutes depending on
    size.
                                        

    I just read an article recently on "true" Southern fried chicken.
    The secret is -- after coating the chicken pieces WAIT at least
    1/2 hour to 45 min. to let the coating set before you fry them.
    

    I learned this from my mother, who learned it from her mother, who
    learned it from her mother...
    
    Thoroughly wash chicken pieces, and pull off the skin.  Liberally
    salt and pepper.
    
    In a shallow, flat bowl, beat an egg (or two if you're cooking lots
    of chicket) with a fork, just till it's mixed.  Then add just a
    tad of milk or buttermilk -- just enough to make it look creamy
    -- too much will ruin the crust.
    
    While the chicken pieces are still wet from washing them, roll in
    flour.  Then dip in the egg mixture, coating thoroughly, then back
    into the flour.  Press the flour onto the chicken so it's completely
    coated, as thickly as possible.
    
    Put into about 1/2 inch of very hot oil.  Cook covered, turning
    two or three times, for about 20 minutes.  Then uncover and cook
    a few more minutes till it is golden brown.
    
    Remove chicken from oil.  Pour off all but a couple or three
    tablespoons of the oil, but don't pour off any of the little scraps
    of crust that came off the chicken -- they're the best part!
    
    Put, oh, a tablespoon or two of flour in the oil and stir till it's
    smooth and just beginning to brown.  DON'T BROWN IT TOO MUCH!  By
    this time it should be quite hot.  Add salt and pepper to taste.
    Now pour in milk, stirring constantly, until the cream gravy is
    the consistency you want -- should be the thickness of a medium
    white sauce.  The amount of oil, flour, and milk to use has to be
    learned -- I've never measured it and couldn't begin to guess.
    
    Serve with rice, buttermilk biscuits (ummmm good with the cream
    gravy over them!!) and cook-em-dead green beans seasoned
    with fatback.

    I've asked the same question on Compuserve but have had not real
    good leads yet.
    
    Who can guess at the recipe containing those *secret* herbs and
    spices that Kentucky Fried Chicken uses with their "regular" chicken?
    Someone gave me a recipe that called for a Italian salad dressing
    mix to be added to flour and pancake mix but, while tasty, di not
    come close to what the Colonel created some years back.
    
    Oh yes, someone already guessed grease so that's out.

One thing that is required to get the same flavor in home cooked chicken is
to marinade the chicken in SALT WATER for several hours before frying.
If you do that, and then use any coating recipe, you will come very close
to the flavor...the major spice is salt...lots of salt.

          
                       1 frying chicken, cut up
                       4 cups vegetable oil (for frying)
                       2 egg whites
               coating:       
                       3/4 cup bisquit mix
                       1/2 teaspoon baking powder
                       1/4 teaspoon ground cinnamon
                       1/4 teaspoon ground ginger
                       1 teaspoon 'seasoned salt' 
                       pinch cayenne pepper
                    

          1. Beat egg whites until frothy.
          
          2. Combine ingredients for coating.  Put 1/4 cup of mixture
          on a sheet of waxed paper; put rest in a paper bag.
          
          3. Roll chicken pieces in the mixture on the waxed paper; dip
          in beaten egg whites; shake in paper bag to coat.
          
          4. Fry chicken in oil heated to 360F, 2-3 pieces at a time.
          Cook breasts and wings 12 minutes, legs and thighs 18
          minutes.  Chicken will be dark brown.  Drain on paper towels,
          cover with foil to keep warm.

    I read an article in "Time Magazine" I think and they said that
    they got hold of a sample of the KFC breading.  They analyzed same
    and cam up with the following ingrediants:
    
    (spoiler follows)
    
    
    Salt
    Pepper
    Flour
    
    
    It seems that the real secret it in the cooking fat tempurature
    and cooking time.
    
    Steve

    I don't know about KFC's chicken (I don't eat much fast food - I
    guess I actually ate at a KFC when I was on vacation last November
    - was both hungry for lunch and in need of change for the parking
    meter, and the place was handy -- fast food is usually way too salty
    for me to tolerate), but the secret ingredient in my mother's fried
    chicken was paprika.  Try it - it's good.

My previous note was not entirely a joke...to make your home made chicken
taste more like fast food, do the following:

	Remove all skin from the chicken (for "original" flavor type)
	marinade the chicken pieces in salt water for at least 30 mintes,
	and no more than an hour or two for large pieces.
	bread with a generous coating of flour and LOTS of pepper and some
	salt
	Deep fry in COCONUT oil, or a mixture of COCONUT OIL AND BEEF FAT
		(melted suet)

that wonderful flavor you like is a product of the salt water marinade and
the type of fat used to cook the chicken..Beff suet and coconut oil are
cheap and take high heat, so all fast food places use one or the other or
both.

People watching cholesterol know Coconut oil is a MORE saturated fat than
beef fat or lard...it is a major no-no for those watching their cholesterol.

    But where's the rest of the "11 or so.." SECRET ingredients? Reply
    in .5 lists only 3. I agree that cooking technique (pressure fryers)
    adds to the flavor (grease?) but there's still got to be specific
    spices that contribute to its flavor. I remember reading the "success
    story" of the Colonel in Readers Digest. In it, they claimed he
    carried a steel drum of his "secret batter mix" in the trunk of
    his car (he was 65 at the time) to various resturants where he
    demonstrated his product. If the owner liked it, he was to buy the
    mix from the Colonel and pay a per chicken royalty. ..SO the story
    goes..
    
    I expect the pressure technique was developed to support the speed
    requirements of the fast food industry. I often wondered if I could
    simply imitate it with my regular pressure cooker.
    
      Al

>    But where's the rest of the "11 or so.." SECRET ingredients? Reply
>    in .5 lists only 3. I agree that cooking technique (pressure fryers)
>    adds to the flavor (grease?) but there's still got to be specific
>    spices that contribute to its flavor.

Wanna bet?  Cooking food in coconut oil ADDS flavor to the food, the
flavor of the coconut oil...the same applies to beef fat.  That, along
with lots of pepper and salt would mask any additional herbs or spices
EVEN IF THEY WERE IN THE MIX....I've never tasted anything but fat,
salt and pepper in Col. Sanders.  The flavor added by the beef fat
and/or coconut oil is REAL and is undoubtably what you are missing.  Besides,
you probably didn't add nearly enough salt.  The Col. Sanders mix is
LOADED with salt...
 
>    I remember reading the "success
>    story" of the Colonel in Readers Digest. In it, they claimed he
>    carried a steel drum of his "secret batter mix" in the trunk of
>    his car (he was 65 at the time) to various resturants where he
>    demonstrated his product. If the owner liked it, he was to buy the
>    mix from the Colonel and pay a per chicken royalty. ..SO the story
>    goes..

Yeah, and Davy Crockett wrestled a bear and won.  C'mon, kiddies, we
don't believe everything we read do we?
    
>    I expect the pressure technique was developed to support the speed
>    requirements of the fast food industry. I often wondered if I could
>    simply imitate it with my regular pressure cooker.

WRONG!!  This is a special deep fat frier and is a SEPARATE piece of
equipment from the pressure cooker.  I suspect trying to substitute the
pressure cooker for the pressure frier would be real dangerous....and
too messy to imagine.

    
    What is coconut oil normally sold under? I've never seen it in normal
    grocery stores. Is there some brand name? I'm willing to "commit
    suicide" with coconut oil to try it if I know what to look for.

     Well, since this is turning into a lively discussion, I thought
    I'd add my $.02.........
    
     As far as the KFC recipe goes; I recall seeing a book offered by
    Publisher's Clearinghouse - called "Things You Weren't Supposed
    To Know" or somesuch - that allegedly lists KFC's secret "11 herbs
    and spices." Haven't read it, so I can't confirm this - my guess
    is that even if they do list the ingredients, they are most likely
    not in proportion.
    
    Concerning fast food chicken and pressure frying - a restaurant
    I once worked in used the "Broasted" process for cooking chicken.
    To get into the game, you had to buy all the equipment, seasonings,
    and flour from the Broaster people. Now, my memory is a little fuzzy
    (it's been 13 years), but this is how it was done:
    
     Mix up the marinade spices with water (1 cup to 1 gallon....and
    the person who said it was loaded with salt is right - you could've
    floated the Empire State Building in this stuff!) Chill thoroughly,
    and mix well before using.
    
     While the marinade chills, run the chicken pieces through the piercer.
    This device had two 3" drums that rotated towards each other, and
    was covered with 1/2" plastic points. You DID NOT want to get your
    hands caught in this thing.
    
     Place the pierced chicken into the marinade, insuring the marinade
    completely covers the chicken. Place bucket into a vacuum chamber
    (I think it was 20-30 PSI), and leave for 10 minutes. This draws
    the marinade very nicely into the pierced chicken.
    
     Dust chicken lightly with the coating mix (nope, never did figure
    out exactly what was in the marinade or coating mix) and tumble
    in a special drum to coat well.
    
     The pressure cooker/fryer was a heavy duty pressure cooker, with
    all kinds of tubing and valves. I dunno if a home pressure cooker
    would work - it certainly won't for this recipe. Anyway, the chicken
    is placed in a basket and lowered into a well, which contained a
    little over 5 gallons of peanut oil (which was used because it was
    cheap - other restaurant frying oils, such as Melfry or Primex,
    cost more because they had an anti-foaming agent). The peanut oil
    temp. was 350 degrees. The basket was swirled to insure the chicken
    seperated, then this huge cover was swung over the well. A lever
    on the cover was pulled to seal the cover to the well (there was
    heavy duty gasketing all around the cover). AS soon as the cover
    was secured, you stepped on this pedal under the machine. This was
    the magic - it shot a stream of water into the fat, creating around
    25 pounds of pressure. This allowed the chicken to cook in about
    7 minutes. At the end of the cooking time, the machine buzzed and
    bled off the pressure - you couldn't open the cover until the pressure
    went down to zero on the gauge.
    
     My guess is KFC uses a similar process - just a different spice
    mix, coating, and possibly, oil for frying. As far as finding coconut
    oil - try a restaurant supply house - but be prepared to buy five
    gallons, because that's how it sold - in bulk.
    
     If I remember the name of the book mentioned earlier, I'll post
    it here...........hope this walk of mine down memory lane is helpful
    in understanding commercial preparation of pressure fried chicken
    - I sure had fun keying it in....
    
    
    
                                  Ken
    

>    What is coconut oil normally sold under? I've never seen it in normal
>    grocery stores. Is there some brand name? I'm willing to "commit
>    suicide" with coconut oil to try it if I know what to look for.

It is solid when at room temp, white, and we can buy jars of it in specialty
food shops around here...where you are, try a health food market (yes, but
not everything they sell is really healthy).  It is a natural product and
might be available at a "natural" food store.

    I use cocoanut oil to make soap - it helps make the finished soap
    lather better!  The only brand name I've ever seen is Hain, and
    it comes in a 14 fluid ounce jar.  I used to have to go to a gourmet
    store to find it (used for popping popcorn), but recently saw Hain's
    whole line at a health food store.  Apparently, Hain's oils are
    cold-pressed, instead of being extracted by chemicals, and this
    makes them better for people who are sensitive to chemicals.
    
    The clerk told me something else interesting, but as yet
    unsubstantiated - she said peanut oil, which is best for frying,
    should not be used by people who are allergic to molds, that peanut
    oil is usually extracted from a poorer grade of peanuts or stale
    ones, and that they usually harbor mold sitting around in the warehouse
    until they're processed.
    
    Has anyoe else out there heard this?
    
    Terry

RE: .14

I used to work at a Kentucky Fried Chicken outlet doing chicken breading and
washing dishes.  The breading is pre-seasoned flour that comes in large bags.
As mentioned in .5, it is mostly salt and pepper, but there are definitely
other spices in there as well.  The flour has a distinctly herbal smell to it.
Now, I would believe that the "extra crispy" flour mixture has only salt and
pepper in it--the stuff has very little flavor.  The chicken is coated with
this mixture, then put in a pressure fryer.  The chicken fries with the top
off the pressure fryer for a few minutes, then the lid is fastened and the
chicken fries under pressure for another 10 minutes or so.  You definitely
DON'T want to try this with a home pressure cooker.

The deep frying fat comes in large tubs and is solid at room temperature.
As previously suggested, it is most likely a mixture of coconut oil and
beef tallow (which, incidentally, are used for flavor, and not because they
are necessarily cheaper).

--PSW

    I recently ran across a guy who was raisewd in W. Virginia and claimed
    that his family DID fry chicken in a home pressure cooker. I'm going
    to follow this up and will post what he says. He states that someone
    in his family knew the people that started the Golden Skillet chain.
    
    I know, a friend of a friend of a .... Nothing in cooking is non
    reproducable though...

< Note 1076.19 by TRILGY::WILDE "Grand Poobah's first assistant and Jr. Wizard" >
                         -< Sounds dangerous to me... >-

re: - 1

Pressurized, boiling hot fat is not something to play around with.  If
the equipment is not designed to take the abuse, it can fail you quite
suddenly with the result that the fat is propelled at high speed out
of the container and all over whomever may be standing there....
I suspect one problem that can occur with a normal pressure cooker designed
for pressurized steam cooking is that the pressure bleed might get clogged
with grease or particles and allow the pressure to build up to dangerous
levels.  I have seen a window and part of a wall blown out of a kitchen
when a pressure cooker exploded...luckily, noone was in the kitchen at
the time.  This is serious stuff.  I know the home pressure frier I saw
for sale was an extremely HEAVY piece of gear with lots of armour on
it....it was twice as heavy as the biggest pressure cooker around...that
tells me there is a difference that should be respected in the two
methods of cooking.

If you want tender fried chicken, nuke it until partially cooked and
then fry it to finish....works for Mom.

    [condensed from Wllm. Poundstone's book: BIG SECRETS (Quill, 1983)]
     
    Big Secrets selected a large college near a Kentucky Fried Chicken
    outlet.  Interviews with [Kentucky Fried Chicken employees]
    revealed how the chicken was prepared.  None of the respondents...
    knew what the seasonings are in the coating mix...but one
    respondent supplied a sample of the coating mix: a pungent-smelling
    white powder with black and tan flecks.   [A food laboratory] was
    asked to do a qualitiative analysis - to identify everything in the
    sample.
    
     The seasonings, the most carefully guarded part of the Kentucky
     Fried Chicken recipe, yielded a surprise.   The sample of coating
     mix was found to contain four and only four ingredients: flour,
     salt, monosodium glutamate, and black pepper.  There were no
     eleven herbs and spices -- no herbs at all, in fact.  There was no
     sugar.
     
     Maybe the Colonels original recipe had an honest eleven herbs and
     spices and the recipe was changed after he sold the company.  In
     all fairness, a chicken recipe with eleven seasonings probably has
     deadwood.  If there was much pepper and MSG in the original
     recipe, they may have drowned out any subtler seasonings anyway.
     
     The secret recipe goes roughly like this: 
     
          Chickens weighing between 2-1/4 and 2-1/2 pounds...are cut
          into eight to ten pieces.  What makes the Kentucky Fried
          Chicken recipe different from most others is that the
          quantity of chicken must be geared to the amount and
          temperature of the oil.  If you try cooking one piece of
          chicken in the usual amount of oil, you get a cinder.  This
          is why Sanders' method has not been duplicated widely at
          home.
          
          For a typical 5 pound batch...about eight quarts of oil at
          400F is needed.  [This] quickly browns the coating.  A
          pressure cooker supplied with an air hose and pump are used
          [to create] a pressure of about fifteen pounds per square
          inch.  Continued cooking at 400F would incinerate the
          chicken, but the cold chicken and the generation of steam
          from the moisture in the coating lower the temperature of the
          cooking fat to about 250F in a minute or two.  The heating
          elements are then turned down to maintain a 250F temperature
          throughout the remainder of the cooking cycle.  The total
          cooking time, including the browning phase, is about ten
          minutes.
          
          There is no batter as such.  The chicken pieces are "immersed
          in a dip made of skimmed milk or reconstituted skimmed milk
          and whole eggs (approximately eight per gallon of milk),"
          explains Sanders in his patent.  "The dipped pieces are then
          rolled in flour to which has been added salt and other
          seasoning ingredients", then fried.
          

     In 1974 Esquire magazine asked four food writers to try Kentucky
     fried chicken and offer their analyses.  There was little
     concensus.
     
          James Beard found the chicken "well seasoned with salt", and
          with less assurance, he thought he detected MSG, cayenne
          pepper, and cinnamon.
          
          Roy Andres de Groot was reasonably sure of miniscule amounts
          of rosemary, savory, tarragon, thyme, pepper, tumeric and
          cinnamon.  He also noted salt, MSG, and tiny globules of what
          might be honey ot brown sugar, and the faitest touch of both
          almond and mint.
          
          Waverly Root concluded that the chicken was dunked in some
          sort of batter containing flour, milk, and perhaps egg.  Root
          was certain only of salt and pepper in the seasoning; he
          guessed that celery salt, chili powder and/or horseradish
          might be present.
          
          James Villas doubted that any milk or egg was used in the
          coating and further doubted that there were eleven herbs and
          spices. He detected only cinnamon and cloves.  Villas argued
          that the secret of Kentucky Fried Chicken is sugar: "Real
          fried chicken is not sweet; this is."

     
     

         You can't do without turnip greens, black-eyed peas and corn
    bread.  A big pitcher of iced-tea would wash it down nicely.
    
                                  Greg

SOUTHERN SIDE DISHES/ETC.:

Mashed potatoes with fried chicken gravy
Batter dipped/fried okra (fried in bacon grease - it's DELICIOUS, but bad
	for you - My friend from West Virginia used to cook this)
Butter beans and ham hocks (just what it sounds like - buy the dried beans
	and cook in water with ham hock added just like the package says)
Black eyed peas and ham hocks
biscuits with fried chicken gravy
green beans with bacon (cook beans/ add chopped crisp bacon and a dressing
	made from bacon grease and cider vinegar - lots of ground black
	pepper and slices of red onion!)
corn/cheese muffins (corn bread with chedder cheese)
three bean salad

I can't stand it....this makes me terminally homesick for some of Dot
Cash's home cookin.

    Be sure and make cream gravy from the chicken drippin's.
    
    Serve smashed 'taters to ladle the gravy over.
    
    Lima beans or Southern style green beans would be a good green veggie.
    
    For bread, nothing beats good ol' buttermilk biscuits, though a cake of
    cornbread cooked in a cast iron skillet is hard to beat.
    
    Of course, on the side you need fresh sliced tomatoes, as well as
    sliced cucumbers and spring onions marinated in cider vinegar.
    
    And iced tea to drink (even if it's 32 degrees outside).
    
    Ummmmmm, I'm hungry!
    
    							Pat

			CORNBREAD WITH CHEESE (AND BACON)

	2 cups flour - minus 2 tablespoons for the cheese
	2 cups cornmeal
	1 tsp salt
	2 tsp baking powder
	6 level Tablespoons sugar
	2 cups buttermilk
	2 ex-large eggs, lightly mixed
	1 stick butter or margarine softened/melted or equivalent bacon
		grease/ham fat drippings (1/2 cup)
	1 cup shredded cheese (chedder recommended) tossed with 2 tablespoons
		flour to discourage clumping
	2/3 cup crumbled bacon (optional) 

Mix dry ingredients well.  Mix buttermilk, eggs, melted fat (cooled so as to
avoid cooking the eggs). Stir into dry ingredients just to mix.  Stir in
shredded cheese and bacon. Grease desired pans very well. Bake in 12 "Texas"
muffin cups, or 24 regular muffin cups, or a 9" x 13" pan at 350 degrees F. 
until nicely browned and a knife inserted in the center comes out clean. 
Serve warm with lots of butter.   Honey or jam is also nice for some folks.

*** Texas muffin cups are the monster size used in muffin shops.

Several people have mentioned cornbread but they didn't specify hush-puppies
cornbread done up as finger-shaped nuggets.)  Cornbread is food for company,
but for a good time, you want h-p's...
						>>>==>PStJTT

This is NOT an official recipe for HP's as we call them...but it works.
Make the cornbread recipe, cutting the milk/buttermilk by 1/3 - another
words, instead of 1 cup, use 2/3 cup or 1 and 1/3 cups instead of 2 cups.
heat good frying shortning/lard/oil to approx. 350 degrees.  Drop spoonfuls
of the batter into the hot fat....mind, I don't mean plop them in there
from 2 feet over the skillet, I mean to be gentle and CAREFUL due to the
hot grease.  Don't cook too many at a time or you will cool down the fat.
When brown on one side, flip over and cook to brown on the other.  You
want smallish spoons of batter so it will cook all the way through.  You
need approx. 3 inches fat in a good heavy chicken fryer skillet.

In my opinion, one cooking session runs the fat for anything else, and
if you have the fat in which you cooked chicken - use it for the hush
puppies.  Drain on paper towels and serve hot....

Well, because my wife went away for the weekend, I batch'd it this
weekend, and took the opportunity to try my hand at southern fried
chicken. After looking through this note (and printing some of the
replies) I bought a pack of thighs and a container of buttermilk. 

To make a long story short, the chicken came out EXCELLENT. I soaked it
in the salt mixture for about an hour before cooking; this is something
we have never tried, and it does indeed make a difference. I also used
cinnamon, ginger, paprika, white pepper, thyme, and just a touch of sage
in the flour/crumb mixture. 

But I do have a question. While the chicken was perfect inside, and the
crust had the right texture and consistency, it turned out too dark. Does
this mean I used too much buttermilk with the egg, or that my pan lies?
In other words, when I tell it to heat to 350, is it going substantially
hotter than that?

The consensus here was to fry the chicken with the cover on the pan,
turning occasionally, then remove the cover at the end to crisp it and
turn it golden. Well, it was actually golden within the first five
minutes, which made me suspicious. I knew the chicken couldn't possibly
be cooked at that point. Total cooking time ultimately was 20 to 22
minutes for six plump thighs in 1/2" of Wesson light oil.

Why did it get dark so fast?

Art

RE: .16

You sure the chicken won't cook faster than that?  The first step in the recipe
I have for Cajun Chicken Gumbo calls for breading and frying the chicken in
about 1/2" oil in a large skillet.  The chicken takes about 5 minutes/side,
about 10-12 minutes total cooking time, at 350-375 degrees F oil temperature.
It ends up done a golden brown and is thoroughly cooked.  20-22 minutes frying
time stikes me as excessive.

--PSW

    If you bought frier thighs, 10-12 minutes should have been enough.  If
    you bought larger thighs, longer cooking times are required.  If the
    thoughs came from an over stuffer, they should be precooked before
    frying, unless you like rare chicken or blackened crust.

If it gets too dark, lower temp.  Cook until a fork poke produces clear
juices.

You might all be right. Maybe they were finished in 12 minutes, and I
just left them on too long. But they were juicy inside when I ate them,
not dried out, and that's what confused me. I'll try for about 12 minutes
next time.

Thanks!

Due to the potential for salmonella poisoning from comercially butchered
chicken, I would err on the side of overcooking.....if it wasn't dry, it
wasn't overcooked.  Make sure the juices run clear (no pink) when you
poke the chicken with a fork or knife.  Be careful - salmonella is not
a fun affliction!

    I vote against lowering the temperature.  It usually results in greasy
    chicken.  If you can't get the innards cooked in the time the crust
    browns, use the microwave, or the regular oven.

This is from Dot Cash - born/raised in South Carolina:

If your chicken pieces are large, you can pre-cook a little in a microwave
or oven and THEN fry it.  If you fry it first and THEN bake it (my idea),
your crust will not be as good.  I personally thought it was a good idea,
but if you'd ever tasted Dot's fried chicken, you'd listen to her.  She
knows her stuff.  She said you should coat the chicken as usual (buttermilk,
crumbs, etc.), chill for 30 minutes to let the crust set, and then micro
those suckers for enough time to cook approx. 1/3 done (dependent too
much on oven power to give a time - look at your chart).  Fry chicken to
completely cook it.

    I Know this is late but I just found this note.
    
    I was a manager at KFC before becoming a DECie.  Most of what I read is
    true, and I do not have all the answers but here is some more light on
    the subject.
    
    Process for making original recipe:
    
    Mix pre-packaged "dip" (mostly salt, and pepper) with warm water
    and place next to chicken bin.  Place one "head", pre-packaged bag of
    2-wings, 2-legs, 2 thighs, 1 breast split in 2, and one "keel" (which
    is the middle section of the breast where there is the most meat) in
    metal baket with long handle and place in "dip" to get the chicken
    moist.  Shake off excess and drop in mixing bin, the one with the
    "11-herbs and spices".  From the smell and texture my best guess is it
    is mostly made up of flour, salt, pepper, and paprika.  Repeat this
    process twice for each batch.  After the chicken is lightly coated it 
    is placed in a 4-tier round metal rack that swings open and closes shut.
    Wings are placed on the top and thighs on the bottom, because dark meat
    takes longer or needs more heat to cook.  The rack is placed in a high 
    pressure cooker using Vegatable Shortening.  There is no marinating 
    involved in the original recipe.  Once the chicken is done it is pulled 
    out of the cooker using a metal hook and is hung up to drain over the 
    cooker.  The chicken is then placed on a wire rack on top of a tray, yes 
    bone side down to aid in the drainage of excess oil.  It is then placed 
    in a heated display case, if there is no room then it is placed in a 
    heated cabinet, for storage not additional cooking. 
    
    All cookers and heating cabinets are calibrated for tempratures (sp)
    Daily.  Now here's a few tips:
    
    - When ordering a bucket of chicken ask the cashier/server to give you
      "keels" instead of breasts.
    
    - The lighter the color the better the chicken, because the darker
      color indicates the shortening is at the end of it's usage cycle. 
    
    - Just FYI leftover chicken is made into chicken salad for the next
      day.  Using salad dressing not mayo, fresh onions, and fresh celery.
    
    Like most food establishments it is up to management to ensure the
    quality and standards are held up.  Granted this style of chicken is
    not the most healthy way to enjoy chicken, but it is good when done
    properly.

    The KFC restaurant that I've been to in Shrewsbury, will not allow you
    to substitute.  
    
    "When ordering a bucket of chicken ask the cashier/server to give you
     "keels" instead of breasts."
    
    I only like dark meat and once asked for just legs or thighs; no white
    meat.  The kids have told me more than once that they're supposed to
    give a predetermined combination, no substitutes.
    
    Rgds,
    marcia

    They are not supposed to give anyone a bucket of all dark or all white
    meat.  Most people only want white meat and that would leave the store
    with nothing but dark meat.  The keel for breast exchange is just
    substituting on white piece for another.  When I was trained, and when
    I had to train the new employees, The Training book says chicken *must*
    be picked in this order:
    
    2 piece meal - wing & thigh
    3 piece meal - wing, thigh, leg
    4 piece meal - wing, thigh, leg, & breast (the boney one)
    
    12 piece bucket - 3 wings, 3 thighs, 3 legs, & 3 breasts   etc...
    
    The keels were originally used for the breast filet sandwichs which are
    discontinued, so now if a customer asks for keels instead of breast the
    employee is supposed to comply.  The few (very few) times I've been
    there when I asked for the keel sustitute most cashiers give me a wierd
    look, but the manager has usually been within earshot and I got the
    order the way I wanted it.                               
    

    The formula was cracked by author William Poundstone, and published
    in exquisite detail in his first book, "Big Secrets".  He bribed a
    high-school age employee for a sample of the coating, and took it
    to a first rate analytic laboratory. They put it through a gaseous
    chromotograph, and here's the news:
    
    	It's a fraud. There are no "eleven secret herbs and spices".
    The ingredients are:
    	Flour
    	Salt
    	Pepper
    	MSG
    Period. No cinnamon. No bay leaf. Nada.  If they had even waved a bay
    leaf over the vat before packing it, it would have showed up in the GC.
    They analyzed this stuff down to parts-per-trillion, and never got
    indications for anything other than the four above.
    
    If you're interested in more detail, do get "Big Secrets". And you'll
    also find out the formulae for Coke, Pepsi, and whether Walt Disney is
    frozen in a cryonics lab (he's not).
    

    Gloria Pitzer has serveral versions of imitation Kentucky Fried
    Chicken.  Unfortunately, I believe I'd be violating her Copyright if I
    typed them in...

    3lbs. fryer parts-cut small
    2 pkgs Good Season's Italian Salad Dressing Mix
    3 TB flour
    2 tsp salt
    1/4-cup lemon juice
    2 TB butter or margarine
    1-pint-8oz corn oil               <== This is to simulate peanut oil
    2/3 cup Crisco solid shortening   <== I'd just us peanut oil, but...
    1 cup milk
    1-1/2 cups boxed pancake mix combined with:
    	1 tsp paprika, 1/2 tsp powdered sage, 1/4 tsp pepper

    Wipe chicken pieces dry. Make paste of 1st 5 ingredients.  Brush to
    coat chicken evenly with paste.  Cover skin-side and underside well.
    Stack pieces in large refrigerator container.  Cover or seal in foil.
    Refrigerate several hours or better yet--overnight.  1-1/2 hours before
    serving, heat oil and Crisco till melted in heavy saucepan.  Put just
    enough of this into 2 large heavy skillets that it covers the bottom of
    the pans 1" deep.  The shortening will have to be replaced as you
    remove the fried pieces and continue to fry other pieces.  Once it is
    melted, just set it aside.  Dip each paste covered piece of chicken
    first in milk and then into pancake mixture, having combined it as
    directed above with last 3 ingredients.  Dust off excess and place
    skin-side-down 1st in the very hot oil mixture, browning the pieces on
    each side till golden blond.  Place browned pieces in shallow baking
    pans in single layer, skin-side-up.  Spoon remaining milk over pieces. 
    Seal with foil on 3 sides of pan, leaving 1 side unsealed.  Bake about
    40 minutes at 375F--or till chicken is fork tender.  Remove foil
    entirely and bake another 8 to 10 minutes or till coating is crispy. 
    Baste with milk and pan drippings every few minutes.  Serves 6 to 8. 
    Leftovers keep up to a week refrigerated.

    [Gloria Pitzer, "Gloria Pitzer's Better Cookery Cookbook," pp. 119]

    For information on these books, write:

    	Secret Recipes
    	P.O. Box 152
    	St. Clair, MI 48079
    
    She also has oven baked version, low cal version, and the "eleven
    secret spices" for incorporation in your own version.

    I have another easy, delicious chicken recipe thats pretty low in fat
    and very tasty. Don't be misled by the 'Fried' in the title.
    
    		Mustardy Fried Chicken
    
    
    1 Pkg chicken breast (I used Turkey Cutlets)
    1 Egg white
    3 TBSP Dijon (or similar) mustard
    1 TBSP Horseradish (Optional)
    1/4 C breadcrumbs
    1/4 C Grated Parmesian Cheese
    Black pepper to taste
    
    - Cut all visible fat off chicken & rinse.
    - Mix Egg white, mustard, and horseradish together in wide bowl.
    - Mix Breadcrumbs, cheese, and pepper together in wide bowl, or on plate.
    - Dip chicken in egg mixture, then in crumb mixture.
    - Place on cookie sheet cover w/wax paper (less cleanup) and let sit in
      the fridge for 10 mins. (I made it early in the day and let it sit for
      2 hrs - the coating sticks better)
    - Spray large frying pan w/Pam (you can use butter or oil if you dare).
    - Over medium heat, fry chicken, browning on both sides.
    
    Serve w/rice and a veggie. Very easy and very tasty.
    
    beth
    

re: .27

>    a sample of the coating, and took it
>    to a first rate analytic laboratory. They put it through a gaseous
>    chromotograph
>	.
>	.
>	.
>    Period. No cinnamon. No bay leaf. Nada.  If they had even waved a bay
>    leaf over the vat before packing it, it would have showed up in the GC.
>    They analyzed this stuff down to parts-per-trillion, and never got
>    indications for anything other than the four above.

Something doesn't look quite right here. Unless gas chromatography has changed
a lot in the twenty some odd years since I was a chem major, the technique
isn't really viable for identifying cinnamon, or bay leaf or flour. It
identifies elements, and maybe certain organic or inorganic compounds, but
complex substances like spices or the like can't be readily identified as
far as I know. The best that can be done is to identify quantitatively
what the elements or compounds are present (i.e. how much sodium chloride or
simple starch or the like). Identifying cinnamon in the presence of other
flavorings would be pretty tricky I would think.

Anyway, how are you, Mark? Haven't heard from you in years.

-Jack

Except that many spices have some characteristic organic compounds that are
primarily responsible for the flavor of the spice.  For example, if gas
chromatography does not find even a trace of vanillin in the substance, you
can be very sure that it doesn't contain any vanilla.  The gas chromatography
can therefore give you a good idea of what isn't in the preparation.

Having worked at KFC and spent a good deal of time with their original recipe
coating preparation, it doesn't sound to me like that is what they analyzed.
I think the analysis was performed on the Extra Crispy recipe coating, which
is far less flavorful.  BTW, the Colonel never approved of Extra Crispy--he
always referred to it as "chicken doughballs".

--PSW

    I do an oven fried version, but I don't have the exact portions.
    
    	3lb. cut up chicken
    	flour
    	fresh ground black pepper
    	salt
    	paprika
    	dehydrated onion flakes
    	1/4 cup butter
    	1/4 cup Crisco
    
    Set oven to 425 while washing and patting dry the chicken.  Place a
    	large rectangle pan in the oven to heat with the butter and Crisco
    	in so they melt.  Place the rest of the ingredients in a plastic
    bag, and put two or three pieces of chicken in the bag.  Shake until
    coated.  Place the chicken, skin side down in the pan and cook for 1/2
    hour.  Turn chicken, skin side up and continue cooking 1/2 hour, or
    until crisp.  I suppose you can add other seasonings to this to spice
    it up.  

    GC (gaseous chromotography) will break a complex substance or mixture
    into its components, and reveal a "spike" on a graph for each
    component based on molecular weight.  Some commonly occurring mixtures
    have very long and complex lists of components, e.g. cinnamon, vanilla,
    tobacco, soup, chinese food, whole cats, and so on.
    
    Fortunately for Poundstone, and anybody else who is trying to break
    a food receipe, the 'spike' profiles for tens of thousands of mixtures
    are on file, and with a little computational assistance, spike matching
    need not be too complicated. However, there are overlaps: Cinnamon and
    Cassia Bush, for example, share many common components, and where they
    are mixed together in one receipe, it is difficult to say
    deterministically what the true porportions are. For example, Coca-cola
    is flavored with either or both, but who can say in what porportion?
    This turns out to be less of a problem then expected, as cassia is
    about 1/20th the price of cinnamon on the world market, they both taste
    the same, so it's a pretty good bet that Coca-cola is using cassia.
    
    For more on commercial food formulation and analysis, see:
       "Fenaroli's Handbook of Food Flavorings and Additives", published
    	by CRC Press, Chemical Rubber Company, Cleveland, OH
    
    (Hi, Jack! Sorry for delay. How's life?)
    
    	- Mark
    

    In May I saw the ABC Home Show and they featured a "knockout,
    Knock-off" recipe for KFC.  The ingredients sounded VERY odd, but I was
    intrigued so I sent for  Newsletter #279 that contained the recipe.  I
    tried it and I was amazed!  It is delicious -- all those people in the
    audience doing a taste test couldn't tell the difference!  I include
    the recipe from the Newsletter here:
    
    By: Recipe Dectective Gloria Pitzer.
    
                          OVEN-Fried Kentucky Chicken
    
    3 c. self-rising flour
    1 tbsp. paprika
    2 envelopes Lipton tomato Cup-A-Soup powder
    2 pkgs. Good Seasons Italian dressing mix
    1 tsp. seasoning salt
    1 chicken fryer, cut up
    
    In a doubled plastic food bag, combine all ingredients and shake well,
    having twisted the end of the bag tightly until the air inside creates
    an inflated ballon effect.  Sspray a jelly roll pan (10 x 15 x 3/4")
    with Pam or wipe it will with oil.  Run chicken under cold water and
    let excess water drip off, or put all of the wet pieces of chicken into
    a colander to drain a few minutes. Dredge pieces in the flour mixture
    by placing the pieces, one at a time, in the bag of seasoned flour and
    shaking it to coat each piece.  Arrange the coated pieces, skin-side
    up, on prepared pan.  Melt 1/4 lb margarine or butter and use a 1"-wide
    soft-bristled pastry brush and dab the melted margarine/butter over the
    floured surface, skin side only, of each piece of chicken.  When all of
    the melted margarine/butter has been divided between chicken pieces,
    bake it uncovered (without turning the pieces) at 350 degrees for 1
    hour or until golden brown and tender.
    
    For crispy coating:  After applying melted margarine/butter, dust
    eachpiece with a few tbsps. more seasoned flour mixture and dab again
    in additional melted margarine before baking.
    
    
    
    
    It is absolutely wonderful!  My comment!
    
    p.s.  the other "knockout Knock-off" recipes include Mrs. Meadow's
    Chocolate Chlip Cookies (read Fields) and Recess Peanut Butter Cups 
    

    re -1
    
    They showed an episode of Donoghue featuring the same recipes (here
    in New Zealand), and I tried them too. Very authentic, if one can
    call it authentic KFC.
    
    regards,
    joyce

    So - is the recipe *good*, or does it taste like KFC?
    
    D!

     Can you use skinless chicken instead??  
    
    
    renee

re -55 

D, if you like KFC, it's really good. :)

Renee, 

the spices did stick to the skinless pieces, though not as well.

Regards,
joyce

    .53
    
    The receipe includes Lipton's Tomato Soup Mix.   Here in the UK,
    I don't think that one is readily available.  Is it any tomato
    soup mix or does this one have anything special about it?
    
    Thanks
    julia - a KFC lover

    
     hmmm... I haven't had KFC in a long time, but I made this last
     night and it didn't taste at all like it to me!  My boyfriend 
     didn't see any similarity either!  I didn't substitute anything...

    I heard some KFC news a few days ago:
    
    A few years ago they changed the name of the chain from
    Kentucky Fried Chicken to KFC.  (sounds like digital vs DEC)
    
    They are making their menu "more healthful" which includes a new
    recipe or formula for their "deep marinated chicken" which results
    in 40% less fat.
    
    ed

    Re:  .56.  Yes, I added 2 skinless pieces to test it out. 
         .57.  My spices stuck to the skinless just fine, and made a nice
               crust.  The 'secret' may be in the self-rising flour.
         .58   Lipton Cup O'Soup comes in an envelope, for one.  You add
     	       hot water and you have an individual serving of soup.  This is 
               not the same as Lipton 'dry' tomato soup, which you make by the
               pot. I don't know if it would make a difference.
    Re:  The note that says they didn't think it tasted like KFC.  I guess
         it's all in personal taste -- the only thing missing was the 
         greasy taste (which, by-the-way I love).  This recipe certainly
         is a more healthy alternative to 'fried' chicken. Unless you count
         all the chemicals in the instant stuff.  

RE: .60

Yes, "Fried" isn't PC among the food faddists and health cultists these days, 
so they go by KFC so potential customers don't have the word "Fried" staring 
them in the face on the store marquee.

--PSW

    I tried this also last night.  It didn't taste like what I thought KFC
    tasted like since I haven't had KFC in years.  But the family loved it.
    
    One other thing, the recipe makes quite a bit.  I use 2 chickens and
    still had a lot left over.
    
    Donna