Conference turris::cooks

    WELL!  With all those CRUMPETS  and SCONES over there, I'm surprised
    you haven't all dropped over dead!!   Welcome to the U.S. -- I'm
    sure all the cows are hiding....my advice to you is to get your
    hands on a copy of Rombauer and Becker's JOY OF COOKING.  I'm not
    sure if there are conversion tables in there, but EVERYTHING ELSE
    can be found in this book.  I use it constantly, and I have a lot
    of cookbooks.  It's very "chatty" with sections labelled "About
    This" and "About That."   
    
    We don't have Golden Syrup, but we have maple syrup, easily obtained
    by squeezing Sugar Maples as hard as you can in February.
    
    Good Luck!  
    
    Diane St. Onge
    

  If it's just a glossary of terms you want, _The Joy of Cooking_ has
  lots of explanations of terms. But if you're looking from something
  "not for the beginner", as you say, but to help with converting things
  you already know how to make, I doubt there's much available. We had
  the same problem moving from the States to France, and some Swiss
  friends had the problems you're having now, moving to the States.
  There just aren't enough people in the world who do international
  moves for there to be much of a market for this information. Your best
  chance is probably to ask specific questions in this conference. 

  For example, on Golden Syrup, no, there's no suitable equivalent. You
  can get by with light corn syrup, but it's not really the same. 

  On the flour, you probably are finding that your baked goods come out
  too light and dry. I'm not sure exactly why (though I've got plenty of
  theories), but you should try increasing the liquid in your recipes,
  and reducing the amounts of baking soda or baking powder, if you're
  using any (do you call it that in the UK? In France it's "chemical
  yeast").

  The meat situation will probably be the most frustrating. If you can't
  find a butcher who you can convince to cut what you want, you're
  pretty much out of luck. Or, you can by a side of whatever and cut it
  yourself!

  One thing you can be sure of: the things you succeed in converting
  will be very new and interesting (and usually delicious) to any
  American guests you invite to dinner. And you'll learn lots of new
  dishes to please your British friends (whenever you get to see them).

    Re 924.0 
    
    You must pardon my English culinary ignorance, but what is "golden
    syrup"?  Also, I believe your cooking frustrations could be somewhat
    relieved depending upon where in the States you have settled.  If
    you are anywhere near Boston and its more cosmo suburbs you
    may have more luck in finding food prepared the way you have become
    accustomed. Just curious.  Cheerio!  

  I mentioned this discussion to my wife, and she pointed out that
  Larousse Gastronomique has an entire section devoted to the different
  butchering techniques of France, England, and the U.S. This may be
  helpful to know what to ask for.

    Hi,
    
    	I have a cookbook which has both US and UK measures in it. If
    you can tell me what you want to convert I can have a look and try
    to find a recipe which has it. I don't know if you'll be able to
    get the book in the US. I can't remeber the exact title offhand,
    but I remember buying it cheap in the shop at Shire Hall!! (DEC
    UK training centre).
    
    	I can appreciate the problems you are having. I have tried to
    use American recipes before and been totally bewildered by things
    like measuring butter in tablespoons and terms like "broil" which
    I eventually discovered means "grill" (if I'm wrong there please
    put me right somebody!).
    
    	So, if you'd like to make a list of things you're having trouble
    with and post it here or mail me on COMICS:: or KERNEL::  TAYLOR
    I'll do my best to help.
    
    JT

    Re: .5 Broiling
    
    To broil: meat is placed on a rack "under" a heating element with a
    pan underneath to catch the drippings. Most ovens in the US come with
    a broiler built in below the main oven or have a special broiler
    element at the top of the oven. There are also special broiler pans
    made that have covers with holes which the meat sits on. 
    
    To grill: (at least this is the way we 'yanks' grill something) the
    meat is placed "above" a heating element. One form of grill has a
    solid surface and the meat is allowed to cook in its own drippings
    (this is the traditional greasy spoon style of cooking), this may 
    also be known as a griddle. Another form uses a slotted surface and
    the drippings are allowed to fall down on the heating element causing
    lots of smoke which some feel adds flavor to the meat (my humble
    apologies to those abroad for my inability to properly describe the
    term "Burger King" ;-), this the form used for the traditional
    backyard cookout.
    
    Both methods produce similar results, but broiling usually gives a
    darker or more blackened exterior and a dryer meat while grilling
    tends to produce a more flavorful abet greasier product.

    Hope this helps,
    Paul.

    Thanks Paul.
    
    What you describe as "broiling" is exactly what we call "grilling".
    We have the same kind of things on our ovens we just call them "grills"
    not "broilers".
                                                            
    We have several different names for what you call "grilling". If it is
    on a solid surface we would call that a griddle as you do. It is used
    here, as in the US, for cooking in small cafes. If it is on a slotted
    surface over hot coals the terms may vary depending on where it is
    being done. If it was in our back garden we would call it "barbequing",
    if it is indoors it is sometimes called "char-grilling" .We have
    "Burger King" in the UK but it's a long time since I've seen one and I
    can't remember what they describe their form of cooking as - I seem to
    remember the term "flame-grilled" being used. I think the problem we
    have is that we already have "grilling" so this form of cooking *over*
    the heat source had to be called something slightly different - hence
    "char-grilling". Do you have any other names for it in the US? 
    
    JT 

    I was unable to get to the notes for the last few days and I wanted
    to thank everyone for their responses - particularly John - thanks
    John if I get and specifics I'll give you a call - and Beryl.
    BTW  re .3 Golden Syrup is " partially inverted refiners syrup"
    it comes ( I think ) out of the process for refining Sugar cane
    and is a bit like corn syrup with non of the funny ingredients -
    just some flavour. 
    Also - John besides calling Grills Broilers and pans skillets they
    call fairy cakes muffins and muffins English muffins and have them
    for breakfast not tea ( what would the Queen say to that )

     Golden Syrup can be found in most New England grocery stores
     in the 'gourmet' section.  The brand name, I believe, is
     Lyle's (?).

    I'll check through my cookbooks tonight for info on conversion of
    ingredients.  I think Elizabeth David and Madeleine Kamman discuss
    this at length.  In the mean time the follow might be helpful...



U.S./METRIC EQUIVALENTS    
    exact(approximate)

MILLILITER (ml.)     = .202 tsp. = .068 Tbs. = .034 fl. oz
TEASPOON (tsp.)      = 4.93 (5) ml. 
CENTILITER (cl.)     = .34 fl.oz. = 2.02 (2) tsp. = 10 ml.
TABLESPOON (Tbs.)    = 14.79 (15) ml. 
FLUID OUNCE (fl. oz) = 29.57 (30) ml.
1/3 CUP (1/3 C.)     = 78.85 (80) ml.
1/4 CUP (1/4 C.)     = 59.14 (60) ml.
DECILITER (dl.)      = 3.38 fl.oz. = 6.76 (7) Tbl. = 100 ml.
1/2 CUP (1/2 C.)     = 118.28 (120) ml.
CUP (C.)             = 236.56 (250) ml. = .236 (1/4) liter
PINT (pt.)           = 473.12 (500) ml. = .473 (1/2) liter
QUART (qt.)          = 946.2 ml. = .946 (1) liter
LITER                = 33.81 fl.oz. = 1.056 qt. = 1000 ml.



BRITISH (IMPERIAL)/U.S. LIQUID MEASURES

BR. TEASPOON      = 5/4 U.S. tsp. = 6.16 ml.
BR. DESSERTSPOON  = 1.9 U.S tsp.
BR. FLUID OUNCE   = .96 U.S. fl.oz.
BR. TEACUP        = 3/5 U.S. cup = 5 BR. fl.oz.
BR. BREAKFAST CUP = 6/5 U.S. cup = 10 BR. fl.oz.
BR. PINT          = 6/5 U.S. pint = 20 BR. fl.oz.
BR. QUART         = 6/5 U.S. quart = 40 BR. fl.oz.
BR. GALLON        = 6/5 U.S. gallon = 160 BR. fl.oz. = 4 BR. quart



U.S. VOLUMES

DROP            = 1/60 teaspoon
TEASPOON        = 1/3 Tablespoon = 1/6 fl.oz.
TABLESPOON      = 3 tsp. = 1/2 fl.oz.
FLUID OUNCE     = 2 Tbl. = 6 tsp.
JIGGER          = 3 Tbl.
1/4 CUP         = 4 Tbl. = 2 fl.oz.
1/3 CUP         = 5 2/3 Tbl. = 2 2/3 fl.oz.
1/2 CUP (GILL)  = 8 Tbl. = 4 fl.oz.
CUP             = 16 Tbl. = 8 fl.oz. = 1/2 pint
PINT            = 16 fl.oz. = 2 cups
QUART           = 32 fl.oz. = 2 pints
GALLON          = 128 fl.oz. = 16 cups = 4 quarts



WEIGHT MEASURES (U.S, British, Metric)

GRAIN       = 64.78 ml.
GRAM        = 15.43 grains = .0353 oz.
OUNCE       = 28.35 grams = 437.5 grains
POUND (lb.) = 16. oz. = 453.9 grams = 700 grains = .454 kilogram
KILOGRAM    = 1000 grams = 2.2 pounds



U.S DRY VOLUMES

DRY PINT  = 7/6 liquid pint = 18.67 fl.oz.
DRY QUART = 2 dry pints = 7/6 liquid quart
PECK      = 8 dry quarts
BUSHEL    = 4 pecks

I'll try answering this in the first place you asked and hope the replies 
get too divided between the two places.

the short answer: a cup is 8 ounces.

The long answer:  this has been answered a couple of times in this file,
although I don't have a reference for where it has happened.

In American/English units, an ounce is both a measure of weight and a 
measure of volume.  Pounds are always a measure of weight (16oz = 1 lb.)
Cups, spoons, quarts, pints and so on are always measures of volume.
The volume being measured is the amount of space that a like weight of
water would take up.  So a cup of water would not only be 8 oz in 
volume, but it should also be 8 oz in weight.  But a cup of rice would
weigh some odd amount.  For weight, "American" ounces are properly annotated
"avoirdupois."

For volume measurements, there are American units and Imperial units.
So an American gallon is not the same as an "English" gallon (nor the
same as a Spanish galleon....nyuk, nyuk, nyuk.)  I'm not certain of
weight units.  Tons are different, but I think pounds and ounces are
the same.  Ideally, you won't run into many recipies in this file that
call for an item in tons, except for chile recipies.  Perhaps we
could specify nano-tons or femto-tons.

Conversion into [pick-a-prefix]liters and [p-a-p]grams is something that
is addressed in many cookbooks, but to slightly hit on it, I have the
following from my engineering desk reference:

	Multiply		BY		To obtain

	Gallons(US)		3785.434	Cubic Centimeters
	Gallons(Brittish)	4516.086	  "       "
	Ounces (US fluid)	29.5737		  "       "

	Ounces (Avoirdupois)	28.349527	grams
	Pounds     "		453.5924	grams



Is good?
			>>>==>PStJTT

    
    You might want to try converting the recipes this way...
    
    	1 Cup = 16 Tablespoons = 48 teaspoons
    
    When cooking, it really doesn't have much to do with weight,
    unless you are measuring a liquid.  What do you use when you
    measure liquid and dry ingredients when cooking?  Do you use
    a measuring cup for liquids and a scale for dry ingredients?
    Or do you use a measuring cup for both?  
    
    Karen

   One rule of thumb might be 1 cup approx equals 250 ml  because 1 liter
is 1.056 US liquid quarts and there are 4 cups in a quart...

   I realize some recipes require more accuracy than this, but I seldom
level off my measurements anyway...


Al

    
    Alternatively I was surprised to discover that the Pyrex measuring
    jug I bought in England and took to America with me had a scale
    in [American] cups. I say surprised because I had assumed it was
    in English cups, whatever they might be.
    
    As an aside, whilst the American Avoirdupois ounce and the English
    avoirdupois ounce are identical, and both Imperial and American
    systems define a fluid ounce to be a volume of water weighing 1 oz 
    they are in fact different volumes! (about 5% different).
    
    Incidentally my American reference books say that the US recognises
    TWO tons weight: the LONG TON of 2400lbs and the SHORT TON of 2000lbs
    - I know this is so because it was once the answer to a question
    on "Granite State Challenge" (Channel 11 in NH).
    
    /. Ian .\

    
    1 cup = 8 oz.
    
    16 oz. = 1 lb.
    
    
    I don't know what this converts to in English measurement, but I
    hope it helps you a bit.
    
    
    Judy
    
    

The following is taken out of The American Heritage Dictionary:

	METRIC CONVERSION CHART - APPROXIMATIONS

When You Know		Multiply by		to Find

milliliters		 0.2			teaspons
milliliters		 0.06			tablespoons
milliliters		 0.03			fluid ounces
liters			 4.2			cups
liters			 2.1			pints
millititers		 0.2			teaspons
millititers		 0.06			tablespoons
millititers		 0.03			fluid ounces
liters			 4.2			cups
liters			 2.1			pints
liters			 1.06			quarts
liters			 0.26			gallons
teaspoons		 5			milliliters
tablespoons		15			milliliters
fluid ounces		30			milliliters
cups			 0.24			liters
pints			 0.47			liters
quarts			 0.95			liters
gallons			 3.8			liters

<    1 cup = 8 oz.
<    
<    16 oz. = 1 lb.
<    
<    
<    I don't know what this converts to in English measurement, but I
<    hope it helps you a bit.
    
I believe you have encountered one of those things in the English language
which leads a person to the wrong conclusion.  A CUP is a unit of volume,
how much space something occupies regardless of its weight.  A POUND is a unit
of weight, the amount of force gravity exerts on an object regardless of its
volume.  An OUNCE (and here is the quirk in the language) can be either volume
or weight depending on the context.  1 CUP of lead weighs 5lbs, 1 CUP of
whipped cream might weigh in at 2 ounces.  Water, I believe, is the only
substance which, not so coincedently, a volume ounce weighs an ounce.

Al
    
    
    

>    As an aside, whilst the American Avoirdupois ounce and the English
>    avoirdupois ounce are identical, and both Imperial and American
>    systems define a fluid ounce to be a volume of water weighing 1 oz 
>    they are in fact different volumes! (about 5% different).
 
Pointless trivia time....  an American fluid ounce is the volume of an
av. ounce of distilled water.  An English fluid ounce is the volume of an
av. ounce of sea water.  Britania ruled the waves, you see...

					>>>==>PStJTT 

  "Avoirdupois" is French for "to have weight". So an avoirdupois ounce
  is an ounce of weight (as opposed to a fluid ounce, which is an ounce
  of liquid). Now for you physicists, what's the difference between an
  ounce of weight and an ounce of mass?

  Also, "ounce" is from the French word "onze" (remember the
  abbreviation of ounce is oz.), which means "eleven". No idea what the
  significance of eleven is. 

  And "dozen" is from the French "douzaine", meaning, well, meaning
  "dozen" (twelve = douze). The French also say "dixaine" (10 of
  something - a decade), "onzaine", "quainzaine" (15 of something, or a
  fortnight - a very handy word), "quarantaine" (40, also the French
  word for "quarantine"), and a couple of others. No idea why we kept
  "ounce", "dozen" and "quarantine". Our abbreviation for pound? "lb"
  from the latin for "book", which probably weighed about a pound.

I believe the previous reply touches upon the root of the problem: volume 
versus weight.

"A pint's a pound, the world around"

-- this is how I remember that a pint is 16 ounces -- but I suppose this is 
fraught with international problems.

When my mother taught me to cook, she would say "Take this much salt" - then
pour salt into her hand; same thing for all other dry measures - a visual lesson.
Liquids were easy: "Pour in enough water to fill the pan" or "Three cups of
water" - her tea cups, that is.

Art

> Liquids were easy: "Pour in enough water to fill the pan" or "Three cups of
> water" - her tea cups, that is.

Which reminds me... to add to the confusion: in the U.S. a cup is 8 fluid
ounces EXCEPT when talking about coffee!  A cup in coffee terms is 6 ounces.
So when the coffee can says "one measure of coffee per cup" it's talking
per 6 ounce cup EXCEPT "Chock Full O' Nuts" brand coffee which calls for
an 8 ounce cup.  (I forgot that one day and brewed a pot of coffee for my
sister-in-law that stayed black no matter how much milk she poured in.
I kinda' liked it....)
					>>>==>PStJTT

    Most of the time, as I keep trying to explain to my husband when he is
    helping prepare food and uses up all the measuring cups and spoons in
    the kitchen doing so, it doesn't matter much if you have *exactly* the
    amount of an ingreient that is called for, anyhow, although it will
    affect the flavor if you are off by a whole lot (if you add a cup of
    anchovies instead of one anchovy, you'll make something that I won't
    eat, for example!).
    
    The only time it really matters is if the ingredient is important to
    the chemistry of the food as it cooks.  For example, porportion of
    leavening agent to flour matters, as does how much flour and fat you
    use to make a white sauce, or how much oil goes into an emulsified
    sauce.  Flavoring agents don't, within reason, so you can just
    "eyeball" those.  Sometimes a recipe will claim that an ingredient is
    chemical that isn't: I've got lots of bread recipes that claim that
    bread won't rise correctly without salt, which I haven't used in bread
    (or nearly anything else that we cook) in many years - bread rises just
    fine without salt; adding the salt will just make the bread taste salty
    (some old recipes call for a LOT of salt - up to half a teaspoon per
    loaf!).