Conference turris::cooks

    What do you mean "proof the yeast" in the water?  Just dump
    it in a mix it up and let the whole mess sit there for 10
    minutes?  
    
    :-)  Not sure, so thought I'd check.
    
    Caroline

>    What do you mean "proof the yeast" in the water?  Just dump
>    it in a mix it up and let the whole mess sit there for 10
>    minutes?  
    
I'm not the chef, but, yes, to proof the yeast, you mix it with the
warm water (and sometimes some sugar or other sweetener) in NON-METAL
container, stir with a NON-METAL spoon and wait for 10 - 15 minutes.
If it gets nice and foamy and starts to smell nice and yeasty, you
have "happy" yeast - and you'll have happy bread.  don't use too
hot water, or you will "cook" the yeast....just warm to the touch.

    To clarify a point: based on my various readings on breadbaking, in
    order to properly proof the yeast you must add a bit of sugar to the
    warm water. Otherwise the yeast has nothing to work on; plain yeast in
    tepid water won't 'proof'. You'll get a few bubbles on the top, but
    nothing like the unmistakeable foaming that comes from having some
    sugar to work with.
    
    The water should be between 105 and 115 degrees; I use the temperature
    probe on my microwave oven to ensure this. If the water is too cool it
    won't activate the yeast; if it's too hot it will kill it. (Picky
    stuff, yeast...)
    
    	/Harry

  Why NON-METAL bowl and spoon?  I've been using both metal bowls and spoons
for months, and have been successful.

--Sharon

    I usually 'proof' my yeast in glass custard cups - they are just the
    perfect size.
    
    The first time I started making bread I had the water too hot - thus
    killing the yeast - and the bread could have been used as a hammer.
    It was THAT hard.  Next time I over-compensated and the water was
    lukewarm and the yeast never got going!
    
    Remember that your body is almost 100 degrees so the water should be
    warm to your fingers touch.
    
    I have never used sugar to proof - although I have added sugar as part
    of the ingredients.  Sugar makes the dough rise faster and higher
    (which in some recipes makes the dough taste VERY yeasty) and salt will
    slow that process (rising) down.
    
    Obviously - the basic technique is to get the yeast to proof - the fun
    part about cooking/baking is that each one of us has our own little
    'tricks'....which make the dishes we all create so unique.
    
    There are some recipes that you don't need to proof the yeast at all. 
    I have a recipe for wheat bread which calls for scalded milk and mixing 
    it with an electric beater...which must activate the yeast in a different 
    way.
    
    See what I mean?
    
    I have two other recipes for bread - a cinnamon one (absolutely
    scrumptious especially when I added the pecans and/or raisins) and for
    the wheat bread.  If you would like, I will enter them tomorrow.
    
    Marilyn
    

    Marilyn, please enter them tomorrow.
    
    By the way everyone, I made the oatmeal bread this weekend.  It
    is *great*.  Eating some right now for lunch.  An improvement over
    white store bought bread.  I was asked to make copies of the recipe
    by my weekend company.  They loved it.
    
    I did not add sugar to the yeast, but did use the microwave probe
    to reach the correct temperature.  That's a great way.  The yeast
    was foamy, but not exceptionally active.  I'm considering throwing
    in a pinch of sugar next time.  I think the package I have is
    Fleischman's and it calls for adding sugar to proof.
                                          
    Have a great day!
    
    Flo

re:  non-metal utensils

unless you use very good quality, INERT steel, or enameled steel, you 
can have unpleasant "tastes" come out of the combination of yeast-risen dough
and metal utensils...some chemical leachings can even impair the yeast
performance leading to a dense, hard, not-nearly-as-good product.  Newer
metal bowls and spoons are generally not a problem - but beware of that
favorite spoon "handed down for generations"...the other problem with
metal is that is can get very cold from being on a cool surface (tile
counter tops, for instance) and very hot by coming into contact with
something heated...metal can change temperatures very fast.  Ideally,
you want a consistent, warm temperature (but not hot) for your yeast.

The best advice is to use non-metal utensils when baking bread.  Glass
or stonewear bowls have the added advantage of being "heatable" through
pouring some hot water into the bowl and letting it stand for 15 minutes...
but the bowls don't get too hot because they don't conduct heat well.
Pour out the water, dry, and grease the bowl well, and place your dough in the
bowl for the first rising....it is nice and warm and gives the bread a nice
place to rise.  This is a very handy thing during the winter when it may
be too cool in the house to raise your bread easily.

    I'd hater to spoil the magic of it and all, but I've done the yeast
    and warm water bit 2 ways with equal success.
    
    1: equal parts boiling water and tap.  Pour the boiling water into the
    measuring cup.  It will cool to 200 almost immediately.  Add the tap
    water.  It's about 40.  The result will be about 120, let it sit for a
    few minutes while you finish putting the ingredients in the bowl.  It
    will be 115, add the yeast, stir, pour the mess onto the ingredients,
    continue mixing.
    
    2. Mix all of the ingredients, including the yeast.  Mix boiling water
    and tap as above but add it to the ingredients immediately; the 120
    water will cool to 115 or so very quickly and the yeast will
    activate properly.
    
    I will admit that I use a thermometer to check the temps but I never
    wait the 15 minutes after combining.
    
    ed

    RE: .1 (proofing the yeast)
    
    I am not positive but am pretty sure that....
    Proofing means to see if the yeast "works" (proof as in prooving).  As it
    was pointed out somewhere in this discussion, you can put yeast in your
    bread in number of different ways and it will come out fine.  All yeast
    needs to work are two things:
    
    	 1) Proper environment (proper activation temperature)
    	 2) Yeast munchies (any of a number of sugars)
    
    You can dump yeast into virtually any warm sugary liquid that is the proper
    temperature and it will produce CO2.  Be it bread, beer, wine, mead or
    whatever.
    
    Back to the question, why do you want to proof it.  Simply to see if
    the yeast has gone bad.  It is a simple method to tell if your yeast
    is still alive without ruining any expensive ingredients.  If you put
    the yeast into scalded milk and it doesn't work the best thing that will
    happen is that you will have to throw away what was good milk.  At worst,
    you will have to throw away the entire loaf.
    
    RE: .2
    
    I have made hundreds of breads in metal bowls that have come out fine.
    You will find that virtually all commercial breads, as well as those
    made in bakeries, use aluminum or stainless steel.  This is simply
    because virtually all commercial kitchen equipment is aluminum or
    stainless steel.  You will be hard pressed to find any large,
    commercial container that isn't metal.  Metal should have no bearing
    on the quality of the bread.
    
    RE: .8
    
    Inert steel = stainless steel.  Agreed, I would want to use regular
    steel or cast iron for baking bread.
    
    No on to my own yeast question.
    
    I was under the impression that if you give yeast sugar, it changes it
    to alcohol, with CO2 as a byproduct.  With beer and wine, you want
    the alcohol and disgard the CO2 (well most of it for beer).  In bread
    what happens to the alcohol?  Is it just produced in such small 
    quantities that in can't be detected?  I'm pretty sure it isn't because
    the yeasts are different, because I have heard of people making beer
    with bread yeast (bad beer I might add).
    
    				signed,
    
    			     just curious

    I suppose I just always have faith that the beasties in my yeast will
    work.  They have never failed, yet.  Sometimes old yeast is slow but
    I don't see anything in the proofing directions that will help you
    determine that.
    
    I always use metal bowls.
    
    ed

RE: .11


>    I suppose I just always have faith that the beasties in my yeast will
>    work.  They have never failed, yet.  Sometimes old yeast is slow but
>    I don't see anything in the proofing directions that will help you
>    determine that.

When proofing yeast, you look for bubbles indicating that the yeast is actively
producing CO2.  If you never get the bubbles, it means that the yeast is dead
and you have to use a different batch of yeast.


RE: .10

>    I was under the impression that if you give yeast sugar, it changes it
>    to alcohol, with CO2 as a byproduct.

Like nearly all plant and animal life, yeasts oxidize glucose (derived from
breakdown or interconversion of any of a number of sugars) to obtain the
chemical energy necessary for life.  The first stage of glucose breakdown,
which is called fermentation, converts glucose (C6H12O6) to two molecules
of pyruvic acid (C3H4O3), with the release of chemical energy that the yeast
stores away in ATP.  There are also four hydrogen atoms left over.  If the
yeast has free oxygen available, it can run the second stage, which converts the
pyruvic acid and the four leftover hydrogen atoms to carbon dioxide and water.
This second stage releases a LOT more energy than the first stage, so yeasts
will do this if they can.  However, if there is no oxygen available, the
oxidative breakdown of pyruvate to CO2 cannot occur.  The yeast then has the
problem of dealing with the four leftover hydrogen atoms.  It disposes of them
by using them to reduce the pyruvic acid to ethyl alcohol (C2H5OH) and CO2.

Thus, if there is sufficient oxygen present, yeasts never produce alcohol,
although they always produce CO2.  This is why beer and wine are made either
in closed vessels (prevented from exposure to the oxygen in the air by a
fermentation trap that lets the CO2 out but not the air in) or in vats that are
large enough so that most of the yeast does not have contact with oxygen.  This
forces the yeast to produce alcohol.

--PSW

Question - Should bread flour be used or can it be used in place of
    all purpose flour for these recipes?
    
    Thanks
    
    Flo

>Question - Should bread flour be used or can it be used in place of
>    all purpose flour for these recipes?
    
the two flours are virtually interchangable.  Bread flour can, sometimes,
be milled from grain(s) that have slightly more gluten - which is what
makes the bread texture - but, unless you are working a very delicate
recipe, your result with all-purpose flour will be indistinguishable
from the same recipe with bread flour.

One caveat:  if the recipe specifies bread flour AND specifies a reason
for this particular flour, I'd try it once with bread flour and once
with all-purpose flour and see it there was a difference...but then, I
really enjoy baking bread.....8^}

    See Also: note 405 has 19 replies with yeast bread recipes.

    I tried the oatmeal recipe this weekend.  It was delicious!
    Already have requests from various family members for it! :-)
    
    The only thing is the loves were kind of small.  They didn't rise
    anywhere near as much as white bread loaves do.  I proofed the 
    yeast and let the bread rise the allotted time both times.  Does
    this recipe just tend to rise less than white bread or did something
    happen I don't know about?  I suppose I might not have warmed it as
    much as I did the white bread when rising it.  (I place a pan of hot
    water in the oven on the rack underneath the rack with the rising
    bread - it works great for white bread.)
    
    Great recipe! :-)
    
    \Caroline

    As promised I am going to post both breads.  Seeing as they could be a
    bit long - I will post the wheat here...and the next note will be the
    cinnamon bread.
    
                               WHEAT BREAD
    
    2 cups milk
    1/4 cup margerine/butter
    1 egg
    1/2 cup molasses
    1 teaspoon salt
    2 packages dry yeast
    4 cups All-Purpose White Flour
    3 cups Whole Wheat Flour
    
    
    Combine milk and butter in saucepan and heat til butter melts.  Add
    this mixture to a mixing bowl and combine egg, molasses, salt yeast 
    and two cups white flour and beat for two minutes with an electric
    beater.  Add 3 cups whole wheat flour - stir by hand.  Gradually add
    the balance of white flour, stirring until dough no longer sticks to
    the side of the bowl.
    
    Place dough on a floured board and knead for approximately 8-10 minutes.  
    Oil bowl and place dough in it - cover and let rise for about 1 1/2 
    hours.  Punch down and divide into two pieces.  Shape for two loaves of 
    bread or and put in greased pans to rise again - for about an hour.
    
    Bake in a preheated 375 degree oven for about 35 minutes.
    
    I have put this dough in regular bread pans - but have also shaped the
    two loaves into round flat balls - then put about five slits in the top
    of them and sprinkled corn meal on the top.  I place them on greased 
    pieces of aluminum foil and baked for the same amount of time as 
    mentioned above.  They look wonderful - and I have used those round 
    shaped loaves to hollow out and fill with a dip - to serve my company.
    Also (and I don't know why) I like to serve the round bread with soup,
    something about the shape and size of it I guess.
    
    Enjoy!
    
    Marilyn
    

    And....here is the other one!
    
                            CINNAMON BREAD
    
    
    1 package dry yeast
    1/4 cup water
    
    2 cups scalded milk
    1/2 cup sugar
    1 teaspoon vanilla
    1/2 cup butter
    2 teaspoons salt
    
    8 cups All-purpose white flour
    2 eggs
    
    Proof yeast (in about 110 degree warm water) for 10 minutes
    
    Heat milk and butter till scalded then add sugar, salt and vanilla.  
    Stir until sugar dissolves.  Cool until lukewarm.
    
    In a bowl put 3 cups of flour and add in yeast mixture and egg...beat
    well.  Slowly add in milk mixture and flour alternating each one to 
    make a nice soft dough.  Knead on a floured board for 8-10 minutes - or 
    until elastic and shiny.  Oil a bowl and cover to rise for about 1 1/2 - 
    2 hours.  (Mine usually takes about 1 1/2 hours.)  Punch down and then
    let rise again for an hour.  Punch down again and divide dough.
    
    You can get two LARGE loaves or 4 small loaves.  I opt for the 4 small
    loaves....seems to last longer.
    
    On a table roll out with a rolling pin and rub with butter.  Then 
    sprinkle on a mixture of:
    
    3/4 cups sugar
    1 1/2 tablespoons cinnamon
    1/4 teaspoon nutmeg
    
    Roll back up and put in greased baking pans - cover and let rise for 
    about 45 minutes.
    
    Bake in a preheated 375 degree oven for 35/40 minutes.
    
    
    Variations:
    
    If you want raisins in your bread - then take 1 cups raisins and let
    soak in hot water for 1/2 hour.  Drain.  Add these at the beginning of
    mixing your dough mixture.
    
    When I sprinkle on the sugar and cinnamon mixture - my family likes
    chopped nuts added as well.  So, I have used walnuts, almonds, and 
    granola but their favorite is pecans.
    
    This bread is DEFINATELY the favorite of everyone to whom I have served
    or given it to.
    
    Marilyn
    

    RE: .22 
    
    How do you know when the milk is scalded?  What does it look like?
    
    Thanks, Kristen

    It is 'just' before the boiling point.  I find it best to stir the milk
    as the butter melts - so that the milk doesn't burn in the bottom of the 
    pan.  Heat over a medium flame.
    
    Marilyn