Conference trucks::football;1

    
    A Republic of Ireland XI missing many first choice players were held to
    a draw yesterday v Man United in the Matt Busby testimonial.
    
    A Paul Parker own goal gave Ireland the lead and Bryan Robson equalised
    with 4 minutes left.
    
    Gary.

    
    
    	Hungary 1 Ireland 2
    
    Live commentary on Century Radio and I managed to tidy my bedroom at
    the same time.  Needless to say RTE radio and TV ignored the game
    despite the fact that a friendly v Morocco a year ago had higher
    viewing figures than both the All Ireland finals.  Well they couldn't
    embarrass that shower 2 years in a row.
    
    The first half was pretty nondescript with Hungary content to hit on
    the break and the best chances falling to Kelly and Keane.  Roy Keane
    really impressed with Kelly also playing well.  Phelan appeared to
    beinvolved a lot too which augurs well for the future.  Yet another
    good Irish performance but unfortunately no goals.
    
    14 minutes intop the second half disaster struck.  Detari's shot was
    saved by Bonner but he let the ball run free and Kovacs (easily the
    most impressive of the Magyars) finished it to the net.  Bonner held
    his head in his hands but he can be forgiven for a rare mistake in
    Irish colours.  Needless to say the team didn't captilulate.  Ireland
    roared forward from the kick off, won a corner.  Sheedy to Houghton,
    back to Sheedy, crossed into the box and David Kelly heads home a
    splendid equaliser.  60 seconds after going behind we were level.
    Jack immediately substitued Kelly with Aldo.  He seemed to have done
    enough for inclusion in Poznan next month.
    
    Hungary were now coming under increasing pressure and the second goal
    arrived 7 minutes later.  sheedy struck the bar and would you believe
    it Aldo scored from the rebound.  Hungary gave up after that which is
    really unforgivable and we failed to add to our total however a 2-1
    victory was very very satisfactory.
    
    Bonner had one of his rare bad nights, Irwin and Phelan impressed
    coming forward but had little to do defensively.  McCarthy and O'Leary
    hardly got a mention.  Keane impressed in midfield and Hoguhton and
    Sheedy alsoplayed well. sheridan went off apparently injured and was
    replaced by McLoughlin.  Quinn had a bad night and was pulled for a
    free every time he jumped for a ball.  Kelly impressed up front and
    scored his 7th goal in 11 games.  Aldo then scored his 7th in 40 games
    (and his first against anyway decent opposition) so he may yet play in
    Poznan.
    
    All in all a very satisfactory night.  now if only we can repeat this
    in Poznan next month.
    
    Gary.

    Gary,
    thanks for the report on last nights game as I've seen virtually no
    news other than the result either from BBC or the national press.
    The Independant gave a very brief four or five line comment tagged 
    on to lengthy reports on the other friendly and competitive games. 
    I sat through almost two hours of BBC sport last night hoping to get a
    glimpse of the goals but was disappointed ( totally p___ed off to be
    honest) when all they could manage was the result - and it would seem
    they got the scorers wrong. They reported Sheedy as being on target.
    Anyway it seems like a good result. Roll on Poland.
    
    Regards and Thanks 
    Tom Shaughnessy  (Reading - ex Galway) 

    Can we have Martin's comments on the latest strike by TGA.
    
    Shane

    
    Re -2,
    
    Actually Tom the BBC may yet be correct about Sheedy.  He's claiming
    the goal although so is TGA.  Apparently Sheedy thinks the ball was
    over the line before TGA got to it.  Century gave it to TGA.
    
    Re -1, Martin is in Crete at the moment.  Assuming the goal is credited
    to TGA I'll organise a collection to try and get him to stay there.
    Failing that this conference will have to be writelocked when he
    returns.  
    
    TGA has proved himself to be a lethal striker and rarely misses from 6
    inches when the keeper is out of goal. 
    
    
    Gary.

    Report in the Irish Press about THE goal. quote - Irelands winning goal
    in 69 minutes was a perfect piece of football set up by Houghton. His 
    cross from the right delicately nodded on by Quinn for Sheedy to rifle
    the ball onto the underside of the bar. Immediately the referee pointed
    to the middle spot but Aldo was taking no chances (remember '66) and
    just to be sure poked the ball into the net. But later he agreed with
    the Greek ref that Sheedy be credited with his 7th goal in 39 matches
    
    Stephen
     

    
    
    Typical bl**dy Aldridge - too cr*p (am I allowed to say that Gary ?) to
    score his owns goals, so he has to try and steal them from talented
    players like Sheedy.
    
    Paul

    Re .5,
    
    BBC World Service credited the goal to Sheedy but as they have already
    been found guilty of bias towards Everton (see my reply in the
    Liverpool note) we can discount that and await the evidence on
    TV - can the moderators organise a panel to review this life or
    death matter?
    
    Checking quickly through the DIGITAL telephone directory I do not
    see an office listed in Crete so we may be safe for another 10 days.
    Of course if he takes a day trip to Greece or Cyprus and manages to
    get back on the Net then ...
    
    Isn't there a NOTES NEXT_NOTE/AUTHOR NES MARTIN function and if not why
    not??
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks
    

    
    The plot thickens.  Jack credits Aldo with the goal.  Anyone care to
    phone Crete and see what Martin thinks. :-)  I wonder what's the Greek
    for TGA.
    
    For me it has to be Sheedy's goal because had it not corossed the line
    Aldo would probably have put it wide.
    
    Highlights anyway on RTE tomorrow.
    
    Gary.

    
    I saw the highlights of the Hungary game and I'm still no clearer on
    who scored our winner.  
    
    It looked an impressive performance with Keane, Phelan and Kelly all
    doing very well.  houghton looked very impressive and appears to be
    back to his best.
    
    We need a repeat performance in Poznan.
    
    Gary. 

    The goal has been officially credited to TGA. Then that's the only way
    his international goalscoring tally gets a boost.
    
    Wonder if he can claim the first....?

    
    What could be worse than your favourite team signing Vinny Jones?
    
    
    
    
    Vinny declaring himself for Ireland.  Apparently his maternal
    grandmother is Irish (isn't everyone's) and Vinny wants to play for us. 
    I don't think he's much chance as we have one of the best midfields in
    Europe.  
    
    Gary.

    Sounds like a Charlton type of player though. I can imagine him
    dropping Sheedy or Houghton for a bit more 'grit' in midfield.

    
    Put it this way. Its the only way Vinny will play for a national
    team.
    
    JN.

    
    Re .14, I am JF praying hard.  :-)
    
    As for our midfield it's the most important part of the team.  McGrath
    and Townsend are class players.  Houghton and Sheedy are also very good
    International players.  How many sides would leave out Ronnie Whelan
    and Roy Keane?
    
    Given Graham Taylor's recent selections maybe Vinnie would be better
    off staying English.
    
    Gary.

    
    	As a matter of academic interest how many of the current
    	English test cricket team were born in England ??
    
    	Doug.

    Or indeed the football team!
    
    Peter

    
    Re players born in Ireland,
    
    Of the current squad
    
    Bonner, Irwin, Staunton, Moran, Whelan, Keane & Quinn.  O'Leary was
    born in London but grew up in Dublin.
    
    Most of the rest of the squad qualify under the parentage rule with I
    think Aldridge, Cascarino, townsend and Houghton being the exceptions.
    
    As I've said in here a few times before the Irish have fled to every
    corner of the world and thousands still take the boat to England. 
    Their children in many cases claim to be Irish and are perfectly
    entitled to play for Ireland.
    
    Gary.

I agree with gary especially about the parentage rule. I was born in London
but I declare myself as an Irish Citizen due to my parents both being Irish & the
fact that I've been living in this wonderful, fabulous country where the crack
is mighty..for the last 11 years.

Now If only I could perfect my soccer skills.... who knowns, I colud be playing
in Landsdown one of these days.... 8-)


Mick

    
    
    Re Gary's note on parentage, Ireland is by no means the only country to 
    benefit from new found citizens. 
    
    A non-football example here in Spain :
    
    The only Spanish athlete to win a medal in the recent world athletics 
    championships in Japan was a lady called :
    
    		Sandra Myers
    
    She came on holidays to Spain in 1986, at a low point in her career, 
    stayed, married her coach (who is Spanish), took out Spanish 
    citizenship, and her career took off again. Her case is a non cynical 
    example of how it should work. Zola Budd's case before the 1984 
    Olympics is an example of how it shouldn't work.
    
    Coming back to football, former Real Madrid and Spain star Alfredo Di 
    Stefano, recently voted best European (I think) footballer of all time, 
    was born, bred, fed, and played a good deal of his football career in 
    Argentina, before coming to Spain. He took out Spanish nationality 
    based on a reciprocal citizenship agreement between Spain and 
    Argentina. under parentage or grand parentage rules he would have been 
    able to declare for Italy. By the same token, who can tell me how many 
    native Uruguayans won world cup medals with Italy in the 1930's ??
    
    Saludos, Tom
    
    Coming back to Sandra Myers, her father has Irish connections, so if 
    she has footballing sons, they will be eligible to play for Spain, 
    Ireland, USA, and Italy (her mother has Italian roots)

    
    Re -1, And Alfredo di Stefano also played for Colombia.
    
    Gary.

    Where was John Barnes born??
    
    If Ireland win the next two games are they definitely through?
    
    I was talking to to a bloke from Sweden lately and he reckoned
    it's not a great country to visit anyway so maybe we'd be better off
    waiting for the U.S. in 1994 where we should be able to avail of
    favourable seedings.
    
    Paul

    
    >Where was John Barnes born?
    
    The West of England (very west of England Jamaica)
    
    >If Ireland win the next two games are they definitely through?
    
    Nope we still need Poland (or Turkey) to take a point from England.
    Even then we need goal difference.  It won't be easy.
    
    Gary. 

    The big games....
    
    Poland V Ireland .....England V Turkey
    
    are but a week away. with England (presumably) beating the Turks,
    an Ireland or Polish defeat will knock one of thos teams out of
    the running. Makes you realise NOW how jammy Lee Dixons goal against
    Ireland at Wembley was. Thats the one that could well make the
    difference between Ireland qualifying or not.
    
    With Townsend in great form ( naturally, hes a Chelsea player) and
    Vinny Jones likely to dig up (literally) an Irish Grannie, and after
    our great win in Hungary (whew, long sentence!) , Ireland MUST be
    fancied to do 'the biz' in Poland.... Yeah I know the Poles are
    playing well, but we're looking mean!!!
    
    As for England, I believe that Sepp Piontek and his Turks could
    surprise 'em. I hope, I hope!! Whats the likely English team?
    
    *Tiger*

    
    The England squad for the Turkey game was announced yesterday,
    heralding the return of Bryan Robson at 34, Peter Beardsley, Chris
    Waddle, and Steve MacMahon. Graham Taylor complained about the way
    so many games in a season had caused a number of his first choice 
    players to have injuries at a crucial time, but he feels he has 
    picked a squad to do the job in hand.
    
    The players I can definitely remember being selected are:
    
    Goalkeepers       Woods, Seaman.
    
    Defenders         Dixon, Pearce, Dorigo, Walker, Pallister, Adams,
    		      Burrows.
    
    Midfield          Robson, MacMahon, Platt, Batty, Thomas, Steven,
    		      Waddle.
    
    Attack            Lineker, Smith, Wright, Beardsley.
    
    On Stand-by       Coton, Stewart and others.
    
    
    
    
    Midfield

    
    	re .28..
    
    	You guys aren't serious about Vinnie (nice name) Jones, are you?
    	
    	Shurely thersh shome mishtake....8-)
    
    	Andy.

    
    Pallister has had a recurrence of his groin strain, during the Man Utd
    against Cambridge Rumbelows Cup tie this week. This means the door will
    be open for Tony Adams to play against Turkey.
    
    			Steve.

                      <<< Note 30.31 by SUBURB::DURANTS >>>
 
    
>    Pallister has had a recurrence of his groin strain, during the Man Utd
>    against Cambridge Rumbelows Cup tie this week. This means the stable door 
>    will be open for Tony Adams to play against Turkey.
    
>    			Steve.



Has his fetlock fully recovered?


Stuart

    
    Ireland travel to Poland next week knowing that only a victory will do.
    Niall Quinn has been withdrawn by manager Peter Reid on the basis of a
    new club rule but he still hopes to play.  Ray Houghton is also
    extremely doubtful.  We can't afford to lose either player.
    
    Both sides simply must win with England the only beneficaries if the
    sides finish level.  I'm more hopeful than optimistic but I predict a
    1-0 win with a goal in the last 15 minutes.
    
    The U21s also face Poland in Bygodzcz (spelling?) and while we're out
    of contention a victory for Poland will see them qualify for the
    Olympics and European championships.  As they comfortably beat us in
    Dundalk I don't expect any miracles.  
    
    I'm off this afternoon.  Full report on Monday week.

    Quinn & Houghton are definitely out. Quinn had hoped that passing a
    fitness test on Friday would allow him to join the squad, but he
    failed. Houghton was withdrawn by Graeme Souness over the weekend. Will
    this mean a game for Roy Keane?

    Looks like Roy Keane will play but there is also talk about Jack
    playing Morris in midfield, with only Cascarino up front. This would 
    allow Townsend and Keane room to attack. Anybody else hear about this.
    
    Steven
     
    

    
     The England team to stuff Turkey tonight is:
      
     Woods
     Dixon
     Pearce
     Mabbutt
     Walker
     Batty
     Robson
     Platt
     Waddle
     Smith
     Lineker
    
      It looks a pretty well balanced side.Goals are needed,and I expect
    England to hammer Turkey.
    
    Dave...

    
    For those of you living in the Reading (U.K.) area I've just confirmed
    with the Irish Club in Reading that they will be screening the Ireland
    v Poland match live today on an enlarged screen.
    Sorry for the late notification.
    
    Tom Shaughnessy
    
    ps The Irish Club is also one of the few watering holes I've found in
    this part of the country with a half reasonable pint of Guinness -
    at $1.30 a pint !!! 
    
    
    

    KO is at 5pm, UK (and European time).
    
    jb.

    Thanks for the info regarding Irsih Club in Reading showing the game.
    
    Could you post an address / directions please.
    
    Richard O'Neill
    SBP.

    > KO is at 5pm, UK (and European time).
    
    Thanks JB, I can catch it on Eurosport.
    
    That's the last time I'll believe a Dundee supporter !!
    
    	- Robin....

    I know how to get there but not quite sure of the names of the streets
    but I'll give it a a try anyway. If you can find either the Chatham
    Street multistorey car park just off the centre of Reading you're
    there.
    There is a pub called the 'Butler' directly opposite the entrance to
    the club.
    Coming into town from the Basingstoke Rd. side you get on to the 'inner
    distribution' road heading for the town centre. Get off at the second
    exit and take a left at the roundabout - you'll pass a garage on your
    left and then the Butler pub with the Irish club on your right -
    membership is not a problem.
    Hope this helps - let's hope we can sink a few celebratorY pints of the
    black stuff by about 6:45pm this eve.
                                                              
    Regards 
    Tom S 
    

    Oooopps....but I was sure I read somewhere last week that the kick-off
    was 14:00....

And, would you believe it, McGrath has put them in front after 10 mins!

g

    
    Ireland 3 (McGrath, Townsend & Cascarino)
    Poland  3
    
    A disappointing result considering that we led 3-1 with only 15 mins
    to go but mistakes from Moran and particularly Bonner let the Polish
    back into the game.
    Still, the Turks could spring a surprise and beat stuff English in
    tonight's game.
    
        rgds,
         MARTIN.
    

    
    	England 1	Turkey 0
    
    	Does this mean that the Irish are out of the finals?

    
    Don't think so. Ireland and Poland are both 2 points behind England.
    However Ireland have a better goal difference than the other two.
    
    So, if Poland beat England and Ireland beat Turkey then they will go
    through (unless Poland win by a large margin and Ireland only win
    by the odd goal).
    
    If Poland beat England and Ireland don't win then Poland go through.
    
    If Poland don't beat England then England go through.
    
    That's what I reckon (from memory).

    
    England 1 (Smith)
    Turkey  0
    
    What a crap performance by a crap team and a team like that would be a 
    disgrace to send to the European finals. It maddens me to think that
    England will still qualify ahead of Ireland who have been the best team
    in this group and should have beaten England at Wembley and Poland
    yesterday.
    Once again, the English were pathetic with Waddle totally useless as
    usual with a totally brainless midfield......crap........crap.......
    crap..........crap..........crap.........
    
       Martin

    
    	re .48...
    
    	Bang On!! England were truely awful last night, and playing like
    	this Sweden next year will be a disaster!
    
    	I hope all those Waddle Disciples were watching.....after 62 caps
    	he's as bad now as he ever was. Marseille are welcome to him. 
    	Robson was knackered but worked hard. Batty was just there to win
    	the ball...and we were playing b****y Turkey!! Dixon was crap.
    	Thank God Mabbutt played well, otherwise we might have got what
    	we deserved.
    
    	Ireland must wish they'd won their two games against us earlier
    	like they should have done. 
    
    	Taylor will harp on about his injury list etc., but that
    	performance last night is inexcusable.
    
    	And to think this team will probably now be the sole British Isles
    	representative.....good grief.... 8-(  8-(
    
	Andy.

    
    England 1 Turkey 0
    
    Possibly the worst performance from England since they were outplayed
    by Cameroon in the World Cup, the difference here being that although
    Turkey's build-up was excellent they didn't have a "Roger Miller" to
    provide the final pass. After all the tub-thumping about Robson he 
    was crap as were Platt, Batty and Dixon; in general England's midfield
    was a disaster, totally outplayed by the quick-passing Turks. The only
    England players to emerge with any credit were Woods, Pearce and Smith.
    
    Now, having got that off my chest, what did everyone else think? As I 
    was at Wembly I missed the comments of the TV pundits; were they
    equally as scathing or did they vote Robson "man-of-the-match"?
    
    jeff ;')

          <<< Note 30.48 by ESSB::MCUNNIFFE "I MET THE GREAT ALDO" >>>
                             -< Pathetic England. >-

    
>    England 1 (Smith)
>    Turkey  0
    
>    What a crap performance by a crap team and a team like that would be a 
>    disgrace to send to the European finals. It maddens me to think that
>    England will still qualify ahead of Ireland who have been the best team
>    in this group and should have beaten England at Wembley and Poland
>    yesterday.
>    Once again, the English were pathetic with Waddle totally useless as
>    usual with a totally brainless midfield......crap........crap.......
>    crap..........crap..........crap.........
    
>       Martin

Martin,

I missed the game last night and was feeling a tad disappointed, but now,
having read your well constructed, unbiased, erudite and illuminating report,
I feel a whole lot better. Its always good to read stuff written by an expert.

Once again thanks,

Your Friend,

Stuart



BTW did Aldo score for Irleand or was he dropped?

    Gawd Andy, sounds like I was lucky to miss it! I was never a 'Waddle
    Disciple', but having seen him play the last couple of years, he can
    be, if played in the right position a superb footballer. But is Taylor
    that interested in a footballer? Batty? 
    
    	Steve

    
    
    Can somebody please post up the current group standings (perhaps
    Scotland's and Wales' groups too) ?
    
    Cheers,
    	Adam.

    Poland-Ireland
    
    An entertaining game - but Charlton will have given his players a
    rocket at full time after they threw a 3-1 advantage away. if they had
    won ....
    
    England-Turkey
    
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Average 1 st half, diabolical 2nd. No player excelled,
    most wre average to very poor. Now, if Lineker hadn't have been chopped
    after 5 minutes (a sending off offence), what would have happened?
    At least England got 2 points, and are favourites to go to Sweden, they
    need to improve their game before next July. England need a draw in
    Poland to qualify, they'll get one.
    
    jb.

    Re: .36
    
    Dave,
    
    I sat through Martin Tyler and Big Ron last night and after watching
    Ireland squander a two goal lead you can well imagine I was ill
    equipped for the ordeal. 
    
    When the game began we were told how a goal flood was inevitable
    because Turkey were quite happy just to be at Wembley. At the end
    Turkey were made out to be more like old Brazil.
    
    I think this was the worst (if luckiest) English performance and will
    certainly see them in Sweden which is a shame because we'll then be
    subjected to more of the jingoistic nonsense we got last night.
    
    Paul

    
    Group VII.
    
    		P	W	D	L	F	A	Pts		
    
    ENGLAND	5	3	2	0	6	2	8
    
    R of IRE    5	1	4	0	10	5	6
    
    POLAND	5	2	2	1	7	5	6
    
    TURKEY	5	0	0	5	0	11	0
    
    
    
    England only need a draw from Poland and they are through. Last
    night England were crap. We played better against the Germans and
    lost. Woods, Pearce and Walker were OK. Midfield were crap and
    this is where Turkey gave us the runabout.
    
    Christ knows what Taylor said to them at half time but it only
    made matters worse. His comment was "we lost our way". What does
    that mean ?? Get Taylor out and Cloughie in.
    
    JN.

    Here's a Wadlle Fan who didn't see the game but has seen him play
    enough time for Marseille to know he's one of the great players playing
    in Europe.....the problem seems to be every time he plays for England
    
    Sounds a bit like Barnes eh!......now thats at least two true Class
    palyers that dont 'do it' for the England team, that says more in my
    opinion about England and their Manager.......
    
    If Graham Taylor is the Best English Football can offer its time
    to look abroad for managers that'll get the best out of their best
    players....
    
    -Dom
                                                   

    If England had Jack Charlton for the last 6 years they would probably
    have won a World cup and a European championship.
    
    Paul

    
    Re-1
    
      No we woudnt....Draws dont win you anything.England were shit last
    night,but we still won.Only Pearce and Woods played well.Ron Atkinson
    doing the "Expert Annaylsys" on Sky was pathetic.
     We need to improve in Poland...we will and qualify.Poland didnt look
    anything special last night.Ireland gifted them the goals,they should
    have hammered them.The difference between England and Ireland is we
    play badly and win,you play well and draw.We'll be in Sweden.
    
    Dave...

    Simon,
    
    If Poland beat you by a goal and we beat Turkey by a goal then we'll go
    through. So clearly England are favourites but don't count any chickens
    because if you don't make it .......
    
    
    
    
    ......and we do.......
    
    
    Stuttgart will seem mild in comparison to the slagging you'll generate.
    
    If on the other hand you do make it we'll pipe you off to Sweden will
    all good wishes and hope you get your dues out there. We'll settle for
    watching Jimmy Hill who can't be beaten for entertainment whenever
    England go forth.
    
    cheers,
    
    Paul

    Well, I thought the first half was o.k.ish, the second half we
    definitely were crap and were lucky to hold onto the win as Turkey came
    out and gave us a lesson in possession and passing.
    
    For me the outstanding english players were Pearce (he was everywhere
    giving 100% all the time), Woods (stopped a couple of good attempts on
    goal) and Smith (in the right place at the right time, and put the ball
    in the net).
    
    Average players were Mabbut (did the job, but didn't excel, may be due
    to his long layoff at this level), Waddle (went past the defenders most
    time and got the crosses in, but most of them went to the Turks) and
    Lineker (was a yard short on some of his usual tap-ins).
    
    Robson was knackered for the whole match, the only time he looked
    dangerous was when he flattened the goalie. He should retire while he's
    still remembered as being the great player he was, and not fizzle out
    like a damp squib. 
    
    If the Turks had had a decent striker we'd probably be very unhappy
    this morning, although the long-range shot which Woods pushed up onto
    the crossbar was excellent, reminiscent of His Royal Highness Bobby C.
    
    Just my 2p'th,
    
    Stevo.
    

    Hello guys,
    
    I've always been a believer in the best team qualifying...so if
    England go through they'll deserve it...they did the biz when it
    was required whereas we didnt  ---> Wembley, at home to Poland and
    away to Poland. Life is tough so is football...
    
    We may still do it..I wouldnt be surprised if we did. Poland need
    no incentive better than what they will have next month. Ireland
    in Turkey could be harder than we think..the Turks looked damn good
    at Wembley...
    
    This nonsense that the better team (ie Ireland) will not go through..
    well, thats rubbish. We didnt do the biz, end of story. If we win
    in Turkey and England lose, well I'll be delighted, but we will
    be lucky to qualify due to all the chances we've squandered.
    
    If England get through, good luck to them. They got the results.
    
    C'est la vie.
    
    *Tiger*

    Well said.
    
    It's very magn.., magna... well anyway it's dashed sporting of you and
    I'm sure you speak for all of us!!!!
    
    best regards,
    
    Your Uncle (Tom)
    
    

    In Copenhagen in 79 or so, we squandered a 3-1 lead to Denmark. I never
    thought I'd see the day when we'd do that under Jack Charlton. I'd say
    he gave them a right bollocking at full time --- and deservedly so.
    O'Leary, Bonner & Moran were at fault for the final two goals, and I
    must say that Packie didn't look as secure as he usually does. Townsend
    was brilliant and took his goal well. It's very disappointing, we
    should have killed the Poles off at half-time.
    
    With England winning in Wembley, it makes it very difficult. I doubt if
    the Poles have the wherewithal to do the biz against them. If we do not
    go through, then it is our fault. No matter how poxy England are, the
    fact is that we failed to win at Wembley and only took 2 points from
    Poland instead of 3 or 4. 
    
    Still, there's one more series of matches to go. Anything can happen
    yet. It's not over till the fat lady sings.
    
    Jimmy

>>>  BTW did Aldo score for Irleand or was he dropped?

Stuo,

Charlton decided to play a 4-5-1 formation so only needing one striker he 
decided to put the best man on the job


.. and picked Cascarino.

Aldo was on the bench.which surely explains everything.

    re. 65   essb::bree
    
    I aint no Uncle Tom!...I just believe in calling a spud a spud!
    We didnt do the biz...England did....nuff said...I'm tired of 
    hard luck stories and the like. Fed up of hearing about if only
    this and that....etc...etc...
    
    Thats the sort of stuff we'll be hearing from you when Man U. fail
    to take the title next May..."If only "..etc ..etc..
    
    8^))   <--wicked Chelsea grin..
    
    *Tiger*

    I don't accept this nonsense about not performing up to par because of
    injuries.  There are probably 30 to 40 players who could easily play
    for England on a pure skill basis.  So if a handful are out injured,
    there are plenty of others to take their place.
    
    What is obvious is that we don't play as a TEAM.  There were 11
    individuals out there last night.  Taylor has got to shape them up into
    a well-oiled machine (not unlike the Germans).
    
    How this is accomplished I'm sure there will be some debate, but fewer
    league games and a few more friendlies would probably help. How about
    taking the current England team and lining them up against Arsenal or
    Liverpool or United.  After last night's performance, I'd put big money
    on the league team to win.
    
    PJ

    Regarding the title, United are ahead. Despite harsh criticism of
    Robson last night he is still doing it for United and there can be few
    doubts that he'll be leading them into next year's European Cup.
    
    Further replies to United note!!!1
    
    cheers,
    
    Your nephew!!!!!!

    RE -2
    
           England v Arsenal, I don't think so, half the Arsenal team are
     part of the England set-up. A better idea would be to put out the
    Arsenal team ( bar two) as England.
    
    Alan.
    
    
     

    Joe Mercer tried that back in the '70s with playing most of the 
    Liverpool team for one game (cant remember who against)....
    
    ... the experiment fell flat.
    
    -Dom

    I don't think that was Joe Mercer. Ron Greenwood? Revie?

    
    I think that Ireland will qualify, Poland will be second and England
    will be third.
    
    Archie @SQF.
    

    re .74
    
    Ha Ha!! 8-)
    
    If England don't qualify for the finals, then... errrmmm... I'll give
    up football altogether!! Either that, or I'll become an Arsenal
    supporter, which basically amounts to the same thing... ;-)
    
    Stew.
    

    
    	Poland 3 Ireland 3
    
    I can't say much that hasn't been said already except that like he
    other 2,999 Irish in Poznan I was absolutely gutted last Wednesday
    night.  4 of us went back by car to Warsaw and it was like a morgue.
    We blew it.  For 76 minutes we played superb football, outplayed the
    Poles and then proceeded to throw it all away.
    
    The news from Wembley means we still have a chance but we should have
    already sewn up qualification without now having to depend on other
    teams.  We should have won easily at Wembley but didn't take our
    chances, likewise v Poland in Lansdowne Road.  We did beat the Poles in
    Poznan and then proceeded to gift them a point.
    
    Poland are quite capable of beating England and they will still believe
    they have a chance as we are by no means certain to beat the Turks in
    Istanbul.  Had we won in Poznan I think we'd have gone through.  Quite
    frankly despite being the best team in the group we don't deserve to
    qualify.
    
    	Poland U21 2 Ireland U21 0
    
    2 goals in the lat 12 minutes ensured Poland's qualification for the
    Olympics and European championships.  This was tough luck on a brave
    Irish side who had dominated much of the game but unfortunately most of
    our chances fell to Vinny Arkins.  Even after the first goal Tony
    Cousins hit the bar.  This was easily the best display I've seen from
    our U21s and it does give hope for the future.  Scott Fitzgerald was
    impressive at centre half as was Matthew Rush of West Ham and Tony
    Cousins of Liverpool.  This game was live on Polish TV and was a very
    big occasion in Bydgoscz (sp?) home of Zawista.  Only about 60 Irish
    attended the game but we made ourselves heard despite the presence of
    thousands of riot police (totally unnecessary of course).  The other
    consolation in defeat was theat it meant England were eliminated.
    
    
    Gary.

    What was Steve (?) Harrison's party trick that got him into trouble
    with the authorities?
    
    Interested bystander.

    Ireland have one won one of their past 10 World/Euro championship games
    outright and still the euphoria continues.  Although some of the ghosts
    of the past are emerging (Denmark 79!).  
    
    Now if Gary Mackay takes out Polish citizenship, Graham Taylor picks
    over 30s talent and TGA makes his return we might just make it.
    
    By the way I thought Big ROn was great in his commentary of the England
    Vs Turkey game.  Although I don't remember the Hungarians to make the
    comparison with Turkey.
    
    Shane

    
    
    Cambridge central defender Liam Daish is the surprise addition to the
    Irish squad for the forthcoming game in Turkey.  There is no place for
    Chris Hughton, Bernie Slaven or David Kelly.
    
    Gary.

    Gary,
    
    	Any chance you can post the full squad ????  Also what time does
    the match kick off our time ????
    
    Cheers,
    
    		Brian.
    	

    
    Full Irish Squad
    
    Bonner, Peyton, Irwin, Staunton, Phelan, Morris, Moran, McCarthy,
    O'Leary, Daish, Houghton, McGrath, Byrne, Keane, Sheedy, McLoughlin,
    Sheridan, Aldridge, Cascarino, Quinn
    
    I think it's a mistake not to bring either Slaven or Kelly.  We must
    cetainly hope something happens to Morris if Irwin isn't fit.
    
    Gary.

    
    Now that we are approaching the final games of our group, correct me if
    I'm wrong but I think that THE GREAT ALDO leads the scoring charts with
    three goals. Along with that, Linekar and co. have played more games
    than Aldo and he's still top. There is nothing wrong with 3 goals in
    four group games. Hopefully Taylor's Wimbledon style tactics will
    backfire in Poland and wouldn't it be great if Aldo could score against
    the Turks and bring us to Sweden.
    
         Cunno.

    Martin,
    
    Aldo scored 3 against Turkey, hardly world class opponents.
    
    By the way I heard all your strikes on holidays were against
    Macclesfield or somewhere, hardly world class..... 

    
    
          Paul,
              You must also take into account that all of the other
    strikers also played against the Turks and made no impression at all.
    It took the great one to expose the Turks. I have converted quite a few
    people to Aldoism and I think that you are in the process of joining
    the rest of us. May your faith in the great Aldo increase.
    
           Cunno. 
    

    Martin,
    
    Come out now and face things.
    
    
    Paul

                   <<< Note 30.85 by YUPPY::MCCABE "Mike" >>>
                                    -< :-) >-

>    The Great One:  You must remember, my child, that O'Leary is an 
>    unbeliever.  He is an Arseshite.  A truly barbaric tribe who seek to 
                           ^^^^^^^^^

     A Freudian slip, Mike? Or have you let the Baby Aldo into your life?


     Deranged of Holborn.

    
    A Definite Note of the Year contender 
    
    * 85
    
    
    
    Giggle Giggle 
    
    
    Liam

    Denis Irwin & Roy Keane have withdrawn from the squad -- Irwin with a
    back injury and Keane with an ankle injury. Keane was hoping to play
    for Forest reserves last night, but as he could not make that he
    withdrew from the squad. David Kelly has been called in to replace him.

    Does anybody know if the Ireland v Turkey game is being broadcast live
    by any station in the U.K.   I believe the Irish club in Reading will
    again be showing the match if its available on either Skysport (?) or
    Sportscast (?)
    Heres hoping we won't have to put up with radio transmission only.
    
    Regards
    Tom Shaughnessy - Reading.

    Poland vs England is live on Skysport, coverage starts at 5pm, the
    Scotland game is also live on the same channel (ko 2.30pm). I'm not
    sure about Ireland-Turkey, it might be on Eurosport.
    
    jb.
    

    we could always rebroadcast RTE 2 through our satellite dish here
    in Dublin, and get any Paddys in DEc to pick it up on the DVN???
    Whatcha think?
    
    *Tiger*

    
    According to next week's RT, ITV will be screening the Ireland game
    live, but at the time of going to press, the K.O time was not finalised,
    so it is not scheduled in the listings.
    
    Rob

    Hey Tiger,
    
    	Seriously that's a brilliant idea! I mean not that I want to watch 
    Jack Charlton and Vinny Jones and all that, but if maybe we can persuade
    some of the DEC management of the immense 'employee interest' in such a
    scheme and the mind boggleing effect it could have on moral (o.k.
    productivity might suffer a little ;-) ), then we could try it for
    several games..... 
    
    			Steve

    Steve,
    
    I'll want money of course!..I'll check it out with IS..It might
    be a runner.
    
    Jeez, I might be the next Robert Maxwell, communications Giant..
    God knows,  I'm putting on enough weight!!!
    
    8^)
    *Tiger*

    rumour has it (with the Irish squad being ripped apart by injury)
    that under the 'Granny' law .....the Grannies might end up playing!
    
    Listen, whatever happens, enjoy the game...and that includes you
    English, too. Whoever gets through will have deserved it. Lets have
    a good night, I'll be stuck in Hanlons at 5:30 with the rest of
    teh Park House mob. 
    
    Lets pray that we dont meet again in the WC draw for 1994!
    
    have one on me...
           
    *Tiger*

    
    PREDICTION
    
    Poland 1 England 0 (Robert Warzyha)
    Turkey 0 England 0 (TGA)
    
         ENDA
    

                       <<< Note 30.98 by ESSB::ECURRAN >>>
                            -< we will go through. >-

    
    PREDICTION
    
    Poland 1 England 0 (Robert Warzyha)
    Turkey 0 England 0 (TGA)   ********************
    
         ENDA
    
    Is this some sort of Oirish joke or what ? ;-)
    
    jb.
    

    
>>    Is this some sort of Oirish joke or what ? ;-)
    
No its GUESS WHO exercising his proxy again.........

Regarding the Granny rule as highlighted by Tiger, I heard a story over the 
weekend (forget where) that Vinnie Jones is coming to Dublin on Thursday 
to look up his ancestorial roots. He thinks his Granny left Ireland when 
she was four years of age. Then again maybe I heard it on Scrap Saturday.

Rgds,
Shaughs.

    RE .98,
          sorry folks that should have read 
    		TURKEY 0 ,IRELAND 1 (TGA)
    			RGDS Enda......

    ahhhhhhhhshucks...
    
    I checked with I.S. about the giant Wok on the roof...it can only
    receive incoming satellite signals...they cant even get any of them
    dirty furrin channels on it..its hardcoded to pick up DVN...so no-one
    watches it.
    
    Sorry lads, PHTV cannot transmit , only receive.
    
    Oh well
    
    *Tiger*

    Good luck to everybody on Wednesday (Poland and Turkey included.
    As the saying goes:
    
                MAY THE BEST TEAM WIN
    
    Regards
    
             Stephen
    p.s
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
               " THE BEST TEAM BEING IRELAND "         
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

    There's bad news and there's really bad news...
    
    The Bad News:
    
    Niall Quinn failed a fitness test yesterday and is flying home from
    Istanbul today. According to the F.A.I. doctor, the injury is more
    serious than first thought.
    
    The Really Bad News:
    
    According to Des Cahill on the Radio Eireann Sports news this morning,
    Vinny Jones is flying into Dublin today to look for a granny.
    Apparently, Jack could use him as cover for our ageing centre-backs...

    The Poles might be without their first choice goalie, and Dariusz Xxxx
    (who plays for Celtic / Rangers) for the game tomorrow.
    
    The England game is live on Sky Sports at 5.30, the Scotland game
    follows at 7.30, and then the 2nd half of Luxembourg-Wales. Quite a
    night of footie on the box, all of it live. Get the beer and pizza in !
    
    jb.

    Most of the papers agree on the team...
    
       Woods
       Dixon
       Pearce 
       Mabbutt
       Walker
       Rocastle
       Thomas
       Gray
       Platt
       Sinton 
       Lineker
    
        5 in midfield....I think a sweeper would have been better,but
    hopefully with 5 in the middle,Pearce and Dixon wont get caught to far
    upfield,leaving big gaps as happened against
    Turkey,Germany,Ireland,and every other team we played against without
    using a sweeper.I cant understand why Taylor
    persists with a flat backfour,and puts so much pressure on Dixon and
    Pearce to get foward,without the cover of the 3 centre backs.
     Its a chance for the likes of Rocastle,Gray and Sinton to shine,they
    cant do much worse than the shambles against Turkey.
    
    Dave...
    

    
    All the reports I've seen suggest that Beardsley will be recalled -
    presumably in place of Rocastle in your team.
    
    Paul

    I suppose being gracious now would be no harm. The best of luck to all.
    
    Prediction:
    
    Poland 2    England 1
    
    
    Turkey 0    Ireland 2
     
                (Mick Leech 49, Brendan Bradley 53)
    
    
    
    best regards,
    
    
    Paul

The Irish team announced this evening is :

			Bonnar

	Houghton			Phelan

		Mc Carthy	O'leary


        Byrne     McGrath   Staunton   Sheedy

                  |
                  v
               +-----+	  
           --> | TGA | <--	Cascarino
               +-----+
                  ^
                  |



Cunno has informed me that he may be back "noting" again if the result goes
Irelands way tommorow night. And if the great one scores who knows what may 
happen.......

Well,
	We're over here in Reading for a course (even worse...Highfield!).
Anyway, four of us went down to the Irish Club tonight to see if they would 
be showing the Irish Match tomorrow.

We got conflicting reports, to say the least...definitely yes, maybe and 
definitely not!

We were told that we could pick it up on radio (RTE1 is at 567medium). Does 
anybody know if THE match is likely to be shown live in the Reading area?

Time is getting short...any information gratefully received!

Michael.

    I can unfortunatly still remember too well Englands game in Poland
    for the '74 World Cup qualifying group....and Bobby Moore having a 
    lousy game. We lost 2-0 I think and then had the Wembly game to make
    things worse!
    
    I'll be happy with a 1-1 draw, and wish that England has a better
    manager for the matches in Sweden.....
    
    -Dom

Re .112

> and wish that England has a better manager for the matches in Sweden.

He had what I believe was a record run of 12 (?) games without defeat
after taking over, including an absolutely shattering tour of the Far
East (that should never have taken place) immediately last season was
over.

He has lost 1 match since taking over (a friendly against Germany)
and the team have only failed to score once. 

Given that he's building a new team and that there have been so
many injuries to his squad, I don't consider he's done too badly
yet.

If the team qualify then Graham should have every right to lead
them in Sweden.

Give the man a chance, he hasn't failed yet !

There is naturally a lot of speculation about tonight's matches.

If England avoid defeat they are of course qualified.

If they get beaten then the battle is on between Poland and Ireland.

In any case, England are the only team that can qualify with a draw.

Ireland MUST win to qualify. That will not be an easy task.

The Turkish national side is no pushover. They have made drastic
improvement.

There is a parallel between what is happening now in Turkey and
what has happened elsewhere in the past.

Let me explain. Often the national side of a particular country
makes great improvement simultaneous to a parallel development
in club football.

The Dutch side got to two World Cup finals in 1974/8 in the wake
of Ajax Amsterdam being the best club side in Europe.

In 1982, after much success by St. Etienne (led by one M. Platini),
the French got to the WC semi-final (morally they got to the final).

There is now another very good French side, coincidental with the
rise of OM (as well as Monaco and others).

OK, back to Turkey. The Turkish representatives in the European Cup
and Cup Winners' Cup have both reached the third round. This is the
first time this has ever happened.

Besiktas just lost by the odd-goal in the EC Round 1 vs PSV

Galatasaray had a 5-1 aggregate in Rd 1 and then qualified by
winning away vs. Banik Ostrava in CWC.

Trabzonspor knocked out Dinamo Zagreb in Round 1 and then put 4 past
Lyon both at home and away for an 8-4 aggregate.


This is obviously provoking an improvement in the national side.

Ireland be warned !

    re.108
    
      Yeah.....I saw the team on Ceefax last night that had Beardsley in
    it.I think we can safely say that the team will be as .107,with either
    Beardsley or Rocastle playing.
    
    Dave...

    Turkey are certainly no pushover, and with a depleted squad, our task
    in Istanbul is not a facile one.  Their performance against England is
    bound to lift them and they will be a different proposition to the team
    we beat 5-0 in Dublin. While we are not guaranteed the two points, I am
    would be surprised if we don't manage it. Turkey got a lot of room in
    Wembley -- but its unlikely that the likes of Paul McGrath will allow
    them such freedom this afternoon.
    
    If we fail to go through, we have only ourselves to blame. We had the
    chances, but we failed to capitalise on them. England, on the other
    hand, got the results they needed. Maybe their performances were not
    the best, but they got the points and that's what matters.
    
    By the way, Jack Charlton was interviewed on the 6.00pm news on RTE
    last night. As he stood there in the Stadium in Istanbul discussing the
    fitness of the players etc., there, nodding sagely beside him was
    another soccer expert - our moderator, Gary Spain. So if Ireland don't
    do the biz, we know who to blame :-) :-)
    
    Jimmy

Looks as if the papers got it right for a change:

	Woods
	Dixon
	Walker
	Mabbutt
	Pearce
	Gray
	Platt
	Thomas
	Rocastle
	Lineker
	Sinton

Subs:
	Seaman
	Curle
	Smith
	I Wright
	Daley

Best of luck lads - you'll need it!

grahame

    I've just checked with the Irish Club in Reading who tell me that the
    only way they can show the Irish game is if it is broadcast by
    Skysport.  From what I can find in the press t.v. pages Skysport are
    only showing the England game plus highlights from every other game
    except the Irish game.
    It seems that the only last hope is that Sportscast are televising the 
    game. I know that this is available in the Battle Inn in Reading - not
    far from the Irish club. 
    So how do we contact Sportscast ???   HELP !!!  
    
    I can't understand the broadcasting powers in this country - with such
    a large Irish community present here yet none of them see fit to
    satisfy the needs of the football enthusiasts.
    
    As for the Guinness in the country - I can't seem to get a decent pint
    anywhere. All in all I am seriously beginning to wonder what the ___K
    I'm doing here.
    
    Tom Shaughnessy - Reading (ex Galway) 
     

    
    What time's the kick off for the Irish game ?
    
    A.

         <<< Note 30.120 by ANNECY::ROWLAND_A "a slip of the tongue" >>>
                              -< Just a quickie >-

    
>>    What time's the kick off for the Irish game ?
    
       5-30pm GMT 


Rgds,
Shaughs.

    
    Tom, I think the ITV channels are showing the Ireland v Turkey match.
    UTV are anyway so I presume all other ITV channels are.

    The English Team :
    
                       WOODS
    
            DIXON    MABUTT  WALKER  PEARCE
    
        SINTON  ROCASTLE  PLATT THOMAS  GRAY
    
                        LINEKER
    
    SUBS : WRIGHT, SMITH, SEAMAN, CURL AND ????
    
    But definately no Beardsley.
    
    
    
    

    
    Well, it looks like ARE BRAVE BOYS are at it again 50 arrests after
    a night club was demolished in Poznan one things for sure win or
    lose we'll go out fighting.
    
    After tonight I'll be glad when this groups over I'm fed up with
    picking up the papers and reading how Ireland are the best team
    in the group and deserve to go to Sweden, that fool Charlton, I'm
    just about fed up with his pathetic ramblings, why can't he get into
    his thick head that you have to win games if you want to be taken
    seriously ok England havn't played well but they have got the results.
    
    So Jack, P**S off and start rebuilding for the World Cup or better
    still do something your good at, sitting on the river bank with
    your ROD in your hand.
    
                            Neil.....
    
                 
     
     

    Shaughs,
    where the hell did you get a name like that - ' this place ain't big
    enough for both of us'.
    Is there still the other Tom (of the jacket) Shaughs in Dec Galway ?
    I'm sure its not you (I hope) as he never had an interest in football
    except through the lense of a camera.
    
    Anyway - yes I'd give anything to have the prospect of adjourning to
    either Paddy's or Hogans this afternoon for a few 'creamy pints a
    porter' and the game. As you say there would definitely be some craic
    (I can't do the fada) - win, loose or draw.
    Actually an idea has just come to mind - perhaps if you suggest to the
    proprieters of the above establishments to have a whip round for the
    exiled Shaughs who is suffering from severe withdrawal symptoms from
    the lack of 'decent porter' and the said craic to enable him charter a
    flight to Carnmore - they may just respond generously. 
    In fact if you get moving now I might even make it on time
    for the kick off !!!
    
    Heres hoping we're celebrating 'qualification' for Euro. this eve.
    
    Regards 
    Tom S 
                                                         

    Come on Neil, don't let yourself down!!!!
    
    After all if England do qualify for Sweden, and the odds say they will,
    you won't need to be so bitter. If they don't qualify (God willing)
    then at least you'll be spared the anguish of seeing them thumped like you
    did last time in Germany.
    
    That we didn't win matches we should have is down solely to ourselves.
    Unlike other years we don't have referees or officials to blame but
    that's the way the cookie crumbles.
    
    
    So, all in all, you've got loads to look forward to and therefore can I
    exhort you to keep a stiff you know what, keep of the hard tack until
    the sun is over the yardarm, never stay on three of a blue, take your
    dealing trick, and always dance with the one that brought you.
    
    cheers,
    
    Paul
    
    
     
    
    

                 <<< Note 30.123 by CLADA::DODONNELL "Denis" >>>

    
>    Tom, I think the ITV channels are showing the Ireland v Turkey match.
>    UTV are anyway so I presume all other ITV channels are.
    
    I don't think UTV are showing it live. They just have highlights at
    10:40 together with boxing. BBC are showing the 2nd half of England's
    game live on BBC2 starting at 6:15 with highlights of all the other 
    matches at 10:20 on BBC1. All above according to Irish Times.

    
                                              
    	Sensible advice if ever I saw it Neil |^)  ..and a pint of
    	whatever-that-is for me please.       
    
    	CHris

    From what I can gather the Irl v Turkey match is not being broadcast live
    anywhere outside of Ireland and Turkey (presubably).
    I've just discovered that Sportscast - my last hope - are not broadcasting 
    the match either.
    
    Anyway heres hoping we get the results we need and the t.v. highlights 
    later this eve.
    
    Regards 
    Tom S

    
    Peter, according to the Irish Press, UTV are showing live coverage
    of Ireland v Turkey starting at 5.10 pm. Either the Times or the Press
    got it wrong.

News Just in...

Vinnie Jones' Irish Grandmother has been pronounced fit to play.. she's
slotting in at Left Back.

Dave

    Latest Scores (35 mins)
    
    Turkey 1
    	
    Ireland 1
    
    Poland 1
    
    England 0 :-(((
    
    Rob

    Half time score : 
    
    Turkey 1    Ireland 1 <-- TGA had one disallowed
    
    Poland 1    England 0 
    
   

    Latest score : 
    
    Turkey 1  
 
   Ireland 2 
    
    Poland 1    England 0 
    
   SWEDEN HERE WE COME (I hope)

         
    Latest score : 
    
    Turkey 1  
 
   Ireland 

3
    
    Poland 1    England 0 
    
   SWEDEN HERE WE COME (looking better)

RESULT YOU HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR.....


Turkey 1  


Ireland 3

Poland 1


England 1

Sob, Sob,

So near and yet so far. Well done to the lads in Istanbul and Poznan.
Nice to see the Gentleman of English soccer putting England through, 
However now the World cup qualifiers are Jacks main objective, and with
the bulk of the starting IX tonight near the 30 mark or beyond its time
to send some of them to "stud".. Best of luck to England and to Graham
Taylor. I hope he can prove his critics wrong in Sweden just like he has 
done tonight. Ireland are out but thats our own fault and nobody elses.
If Jack had sent the lads out in Poland the way they went out tonight 
then we might have saved the torture of "relying on favours from somebody else"
as Jack Charlton says.

All in all it was a great group and some great banter between the games 
especially The "local derbys". I will stake my claim here and now that
Cunniffe will make an appearance in here tonight or early tommorow,
after all "football is a funny old game"

Rgds,
Shaughs.

P.S. Gary give us your autograph... your a big T.V. star now. 

    Well bad luck Ireland, you got real close and it must have been a bit
    painfull to here Lineker had scored in the 73rd minute.
    
    I'm prepared to give Taylor the benefit of the doubt and hope he comes
    up with an 'impressive' team for June next year. Did he actually ever
    win anything with Watford and Aston Villa when he was mamanger, other
    than maybe 2nd Div title?
    
    -Dom

    
    Shaughs,
    
    On behalf of all England fans, thank you for your congratulations - it
    would have been so easy last night to slag us off, but to your credit,
    you took it well.
    
    England were crap yesterday, and it SHOULD HAVE BEEN a penalty, which
    would have killed us off. Fortunately, record books don't list such
    things, they will just say England finished the group a point ahead. 
    
    Let's hope Taylor gets a settled squad together before Sweden, and gives 
    players more than 45 minutes to show their worth.
    
    Bad Luck Ireland (..and that's easy to say, but not meant glibly)
    
    Rob

    
    
    	If only Jack Charlton was so gracious in defeat....I quote from
    	this mornings papers..
    
    	"I'll be ringing Grahame Taylor to tell him what a lucky
    	sod he is.. England have had all the luck going and we've 
    	had nothing ..England have played rubbish and are still going
    	to the finals..I still maintain we are the best team in the group
    	and everybody in England knows it."
    
    
    	I don't suppose he'll be cheering us on next year : )
    
    	CHris
    	

Re .147

That sounds like Jack Charlton.

We all know that England are always lucky.

The last time we were unlucky was when in the 1966 World Cup Final
leading 2-1 with only a couple of minutes to go, a certain J. Charlton
instead of "hoofing" the ball into touch, got himself into a load of 
trouble, then hacked his man down giving the Germans a free kick, from
which they scored the equalizer. We would never have had 25 years of
discussion over the 3rd goal if he hadn't (or had as the case may be)
put his big foot in it.

The only difference now is that he uses his mouth instead of his boot.

From a personal perspective, I guess we (I mean the English squad) have
had the "rub of the green" (pardon the pun) and I'm sorry that Ireland
had to miss out, as they did play some very good football.
They lost out, basically, because of the naivety vs Poland when they 
were 3-1 up. Who's fault is that ? Certainly, not J. Charlton's !!!

Hard luck Ireland.

J. Charlton keep your gob shut !!

    We have ourselves to blame, the game in Wembley proved to be the
    turning point, we kicked ye guys off the park, scored two goals
    unfortunately one for England and finished the game with only one
    point.  Nobody gets anywhere without luck, this time round England
    had it.
    
              I wish them the best in Sweeden, but they need someone to
    score goals, they can't allways rely on Garry Linekar and Steve
    Staunton to score for them..

    
    Just a couple of points on last nights game in Poznan:
    
    Firstly, the free kick from which Poland scored. The TV pundits were 
    adamant that it should never have been a free kick in the first place
    but I'm not so sure; although Rocastle won the ball in the tackle in 
    did seem as though he had pulled Ziober back BEFORE winning it.
    
    Secondly, the most controversial point, the "penalty". Whilst there's
    no doubt in my mind that Woods did bring the player down, it seemed to
    me that there was more than a suspicion of offside when the original 
    shot was struck. Given that the player went on to take the ball past
    the keeper, he could not be said to be "not interfering with play".
    
    Any thoughts?
    
    jeff.

    I agree that Woods brought down the player, which should have been a
    penalty, however, I thought that one of the 2 Poles in the penalty area
    was offside when the initial shot from Urban came in. Maybe my
    interpretation of 'level' is different to every one else, which is why
    I'm not a referee ;-).
    
    The situation as I saw it looked something like this:
    
       |      |
       |--    |
     --  |    |
    |    |   _|
    |    |  |_|<---- defender		Overlapping but not level!!
     --  |  _ |
       |-- |_||<---- attacker
       |      |
       |      |
       |-------
       |
    
    
    	Anyway, that's all history now, and England will be in Sweden next
    summer, and best of luck to them. I hope that Graham Taylor can build
    on the young side he has currently, and in the next 8 months, give the
    new players the experience thay need in the 6 friendlys. I personally
    thought before the game yesterday that he had made a mistake relying on
    new blood for a game as important as this, but I am pleased to say that
    they proved me wrong, and in doing so gained invaluable experience in
    the international arena.
    
    	Finally I want to say bad luck to the Irish. As has been said
    before, they really dug their own grave, but I'm sure they'll bounce
    back and, I'm sure we'll see them in the U.S. in 1994.
    
    Al

    
    I thought it was a definite penalty... 
    - that makes the decision and result even better.......
    
    I feel like a Liverpool supporter after a Merseyside Derby..
    
    Paul

    I'm disappointed and depressed.
    
    We blew it, we have only ourselves to blame. Once we failed to beat
    Poland at Lansdowne Rd., we were always chasing it. Blowing a 2 goal
    lead last month didn't help either. It doesn't matter how England
    played or whether or not it was a penalty, the bottom line is that we
    we had the chances to dominate this group and we didn't take them.
    England, despite some poor performances, still took their chances when
    they came. That's what counts at the end of the day. 
    
    For us, I suppose, it will give some new players a chance. All our
    centre backs are over 30 and we need to start blooding in new players -
    people like Liam Daish, Scott Fitzgerald etc. We did play some good
    football during these qualifiers and there is something in that 4-5-1
    formation that suits us. I think we can build on that, and hopefully
    make the U.S. in 1994.  
    
    England will be a difficult team to beat, and with a player like Gary
    Lineker up front, are bound to score a few. Their midfield needs some
    serious attention though.
    
    Jimm

    
    Its a shame Ireland are in the same group as I would have
    like to see them in Sweden along with England.
    
    My Dad was jubilant about the Ireland result but cried when
    Lineker scored the equaliser.
    
    Slan.
    
    JN.

    >    Well, it looks like ARE BRAVE BOYS are at it again 50 arrests after
    >    a night club was demolished in Poznan one things for sure win or
    >    lose we'll go out fighting.
     
    	W*nkers to a man! Why can't they go and support someone else? 
    
    
    	Jack Charlton? Sour grapes. England may have been lucky, but then
    they were unlucky in Stuttgart in 1988, swings and roundabouts Jack.
    	
    	Hard luck to Ireland, I still believe that with a better manager,
    they would do even better than they are at the moment. 
    
    
    		Steve

    So, congratulations to England, I hope I will see that team in June
    with Waddle and Stevens (they should be in good shape as Marseille was
    eliminated from european cup).
    
    Hard luck for Ireland, but this particular competition is very hard as
    only one team qualifies.
    Things will be better for the world cup.
    
    Let's hope for nice games in Sweden.
    
    Thierry

    
    Good luck to England in Sweden...........
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    because with a crap team like that, they'll need all the luck they
    can get. Never have I seen a team get so much luck in a group as the
    English got in that qualification group. England should have been dead
    and buried before yesterday's game. Also, Ireland lost the group rather
    than England winning the group.
       The referee definately should have awarded a penalty to the Poles
    for that foul by Flash Gordon on the Polish attacker. A second goal
    would have knocked the stuffing out of the English and our boys would
    have gone through.
      Ireland scored 13 goals against a pitiful 7 for the England and it's
    just so sad when the best team throughout the group don't get to the
    finals. People often say things like 'the luck of the Irish' but it was
    the English who had all the luck. 
      Ray Houghton's crucial miss in Wembley proved to be very very costly.
    We also scored eight goals against the Turks while the English managed
    two poxy 1-0 wins.
       It's so sad to see "players" like Woods, Mabbutt, Dixon, Gray,
    Rocastle, Sinton, Smith, haircut Thomas, Batty, etc. go to Sweden when
    the cream of European soccer like Staunton, Whelan, Houghton, McGrath,
    Townsend, Keane and of course that great striker of the modern era,
    John Aldridge fail to make the finals.
        That will be a quiz question for the future. Which strikers
    finished joint top scorers in the group and failed to make the Euro
    finals?  Answer = John Aldridge and Tony Cascarino.
        Once again, England have been steeped in luck. They probably would
    have never won the world cup except for they were playing on home
    ground.
    
         Cunno.
    

    Well,we squeezed through in the end,I dint think England were that bad
    last night.They created all the chances,and really the penalty was all
    the Poles created.The shot that led to the goal was covered by Woods
    until it hit Gary Mabbutt.It got better in the second half when Alan
    Smith came on.It was a definate penalty,but I to thought there was a
    suspition of offside about the shot.Also when Rocastle was through on
    goal the Polish defender clearly handled the ball,he pushed it out with
    his arm,so maybe we were alittle lucky,but you need luck in Football.
     Sir Gary Lineker came up with the goods again,great goal just when I
    was getting seriously worried.
     As for the new players,Sinton started well but faded badly,Andy
    gray...well he's not an international player,and it showed.            
       Rocastle deserves to keep his place,he worked hard as did Geoff
    Thomas.It wasnt the ideal side but by the time Sweden comes round
    hopefully injuries will have cleared up and we will have a squad in
    which all the players have experience.
       Paul Gascoigne is needed,and hopefully he will be fit enough to go
    to Sweden.
        
      I hope we dont get Ireland in the World Cup,I coudnt stand Charlton
    moaning about that aswell.
    
    dave...

    Re  
    <<< Note 30.157 by ESSB::MCUNNIFFE "Liverpool have a divine right to title" >>>
    
    
    
    
    		:-)

	re .157

	Who gives a toss about luck?   (Snigger)

	The Fridge

    
    
     Well, what a tense game to have too sit through why is it that 
     England have to do this to me, my heart can't take much more.
    
     To the game, England got the draw there performance deserved
     having dominated the whole of the second half and restricting the
     Poles to only one effort, the penalty appeal, I must admit from where
     I was sitting it looked blatent but if these teams stop diving
     everytime they are challenged then maybe some of these decision 
     will go there way, and two minutes later Lineker equalised who Said
     footballs a funny old game England have got a long way to go if they
     think thev'e any chance of winning the championship for a start the
     midfield has got to be Taylors priority but hopefully with a fit
     Gasgione to come back that will go along way to solving his problems
     I thought Thomas had his best game in an England shirt and along with
     Platt and maybe Rocastle could be the midfield were looking for.
    
     Anyway he has 6 more internationals to go lets hope he sorts it
     out by the time June comes.
    
                                Neil...........    

 <<< Note 30.157 by ESSB::MCUNNIFFE "Liverpool have a divine right to title" >>>
                   -< England are steeped in luck....again. >-

He is back with a vengence.....

 Now to the F.A. cup and a Tranmere victory next May.............

	re .160

	"Who gives a toss about luck?"

	Well you should because England will need it.

	As for the game, not very good and despite whats being said in the 
	conference Rocastle is a liability. When it gets serious odds on him 
	being sent off.

	Jim

    What a strange feeling it is when you find yourself agreeing with
    the sentiments of Cunno, especially twice in the space of a week.
    I'd much rather have seen the Republic get through and Graham Taylor
    announce his resignation, which of course he would'nt have done. 
    Big Ron's yer man. 
    
    

    
    
    Re 30.157 
    
    	Who was it who said " The harder I practice the luckier I get " ?
    
    	  I think it was Gary Player after being accused of being a lucky
    	sh*te.
    	  If you substitute the word "try" with "practice", It could be 
    	the England team. England worked hard and deserved to win this
        group.
    	  I believe you make your own luck, and if it goes against you,
    	You don't blubber about it, so chin up Martin. 
    	^^^
    	And as for "scored 13 against a pitiful 7"  Correct,well done 
    	Ireland, Aldridge and all , but I think you'll find it's the
    	conceded 6 against a pitiful 3 , which made the difference here !
    
    	
    	CHris
    
       

    
    
    It's nothing to do with goals scored or goals conceeded, England beat
    Poland at home - Ireland didn't.
    
    Tough **** - welcome back to being a third rate football nation....
    
    Paul

    
    
    	Yeah thats what I meant, but I was trying to be polite : )
    
    
    CHris

    >> welcome back to being a third rate football nation....
    
    
    That should keep (Taylor's) England company then. 
    
    Barry.

>>>    That should keep (Taylor's) England company then. 
    
>>>    Barry.
    
    Not really - England will be in Sweden - Ireland won't....
    
    Lots of :-)s
    
    Paul

I think England have finally cottoned on by watching the Germans.

You don't have too be too good in the early stages of a competition.

The odd loss to Algeria, draw or 1-0 win in the 90th minute against
Cyprus or Malta (or Turkey) is OK as long as you make it to the finals
and then you can start to play !!

Nicht wahr ;-)

The only difference is that if you're England, the whole world knocks
you for it !

Lineker does exactly what Gerd Mueller did but with a lot more class !

    >>>>  You don't have to be good in the early stages of a competition.
    
    I think England were good in the early part against Poland and were 
    terrible afterwards.(They must be trying to beat the Germans at
    something).
    
    Good LUCK to England in Sweden. Its points on the board that matter
    and England have it. In relation to big Jack, I think if he had the 
    same English players at his disposel last night, nobody would be 
    worrying about the legality of the peno. Ye would have won handsdown.
    Its hard to stomach something being said by a person who knows the game
    and who states the facts and in relation to him playing for England, if
    you had one or two players in the currant squad that would give as much
    as he gave for his country, then I would see real hope for you in
    Sweden.
    
    P.S. BIG JACK  V  TAYLOR  ------ NO CONTEST FOR BIG JACK
    
    Stephen
    

    
    	I'm sure all you Irish lads wish us well in Sweden really ;-) but
    	you all *know* the real reason why England qualified at Ireland's
    	expense. It's no use going on about England being lucky, needing
    	luck to get anywhere, gonna get stuffed in Sweden etc.....
    
    	Ireland didn't win either game against England when they really
    	should have won both on the balance of play, certainly the
    	Wembley match at least. Ireland only won two games out of six,
    	although they remained undefeated which is very creditable.
	Draws are Ok away against group rivals, but eventually you've got
    	to win a big game. England's fine 2-0 win at home to Poland proved
    	the only factor seperating England, Poland and Ireland at the end.
     
        All these bitter sour-grapes notes (with the exception of a few
    	very magnanimous good wishes...) don't help any. Concentrate on
    	getting things right for the WC qualifying.....I'm sure most
    	English fans would be pleased to see you qualify for USA '94 and 
    	would wish *you* well...I certainly would.
    
    	It's over. Ireland had many chances to keep their destiny in their 
    	own hands and were found wanting. As the Scots may yet discover to
    	their cost, if you want a job doing well you may as well do it
    	yourself - don't leave it up to others, they'll let you down...
    
    	Andy.  

    re .166 and .167
    
    How come your team of world beaters cannot defeat our third-raters.
    
    Up yours.
    

	re. -1
	
	Ha ha ha ha. Perhaps a pint of Guiness would help wash down those 
	sour grapes?

	The Fridge.

    Being marooned in one channel land, I had to endure the 5 minute
    updates on Wednesday night.  35, 40, 55, 60, 65, 70, 75 and all was going
    well.  Then just as TGA missed his umpteenth sitter for Ireland in
    the 76th minute the word came that TBL (The Boy Lineker) had scored in
    Poznan.  If the only decent player England have had the
    international skills of TGA we would still be in it. WIth the exception 
    of one game in Stuttgart TBL has escaped the Acquired Immune goal
    deficiency that TGA suffers from.   TGA has to go the road of Magic
    Johnson and retire.
    
    Shane

    well, we left it to late, this time. But we can have no complaints
    of bad luck etc...the last time we got through it was thanks to
    Mackays late goal for Scotland in Bulgaria....ya win some, ya lose
    some. 
    
    Congrats to England, you did  the bizz and the best of Irish Luck
    to you (no, I wouldnt wish *that* bad luck on you8^))...You will
    have to improve and settle before next summer to qualify for the
    semis, I think..your team is much too brittle and is not moving
    with the fluency you had built up in Italy.
    
    Wel, what a sickener wedns night was...nuff said. I pity the poor
    Landlords in the pubs looking forward to a *Huge* nights drinking
    on the night only for Lineker to burst all our dreams. You could
    feel the joy in people just slide out the door. No-one stayed any
    more than 15 minutes after the game finished. It was like a morgue.
    People just stood and looked into space. Oh well, at least we'll
    have a relatively alchohol-free summer and we can just settle and
    enjoy the games on the telly without getting too involved. All that
    strain of Euro-88 and Italy-90 was a bit hard on the emotions. Lets
    hope the Scots can make it through and the Welsh. 
    
    Like most Irishmen, watching England next summer, Half of me will
    be cheering for you and the other half wont. The cheers because
    you're a good people who love football, and you're closer to us
    than any European team. The non-cheers because of so many reasons
    I wont go into...but particularly the bleating of Jimmy Hill etc
    about the best team in the world...blah blah blah!!  Theres nothing
    as bad as a loudmouth spouting nonsense..
                                             
    again good luck, we played well, but not well enough often enough.
    Thats the bottom line.
    
    *Tiger*

         <<< Note 30.166 by BLKPUD::WATTERSONP "No Irish in Sweden" >>>
    
    >>> Tough **** - welcome back to being a third rate football nation....
    
    This attitude is why very few Irish people will find it hard to support
    England in the finals. As Tiger said earlier, we have nothing against
    the English team or supporters, but we have had to endure your press
    and commentators telling us just how good you are, how the team is the
    best in the world. You're not, nor are you the best in Europe by a long
    shot. 
    
    We missed qualification because we made mistakes, we did not take the
    chances that came our way. We played well enough at times but we failed
    to capitalise on it. That's disappointing because had we done, I feel
    we could have done very well in Sweden. England did what they had to do
    and fair play to them. The fact that we now have to put up with Jimmy
    Hill et al will make it an even more bitter pill to swallow next summer.
    
    Jimmy

    
    	Yes, the thought of Chinny Hill almost makes me wish we hadn't
    	qualified too ...
    
    	..he is a prime w*nk*r...even my wife can't stand his arrogant
    	know-it-all attitude and she knows s*d all about football.
    
    	Don't think the English guys like him PLEASE!!! I'd happily watch
    	him drown in a vat of acid!!
    
    	Andy.
    
    	re .177...thanx, Tiger...and I *know* what you mean by the
    	non-related issues too...there's not much we as a noting community
    	can do about that except enjoy a common interest.

    re .179
    
    Paul really got to you didnt he!
    Ian.
    
    p.s i dont think we are the best in Europe either.
    

   >>                                  but we have had to endure your press
   >> and commentators telling us just how good you are, how the team is the
   >> best in the world. 
    
    This seems to be a recurring theme in here.  Perhaps in the last ten
    years or so I've been sleeping but I don't seem to remember this at
    all.  Perhaps someone would be kind enough to supply me with a video 
    of what I've missed or maybe some pointers to articles written by English
    people making the above claim.
    
    Sure the football programmes/press are biased towards England but
    claiming they are the best in the world?  When?  Facts and figures
    please not opinion.
     
   >> You're not, nor are you the best in Europe by a long shot. 
    
    Agreed, what's YOUR problem?  
    
    Mike M

    	Thanks to all the Irish boys for the good wishes.....I would agree
    that you would probably have done well in Sweden...In the end,after
    what I believe was a poor performance in Poznan (we made the chances 
    but didn't have the belief/ability to convert them when we should have)
    I actually would have been happy to see Ireland go through.....Yes,
    England did enough....Yes Ireland have only themselves to blame....I
    know all that,but I still feel that on the whole,Ireland would have 
    ruffled more feathers in Sweden than England will & looking at
    performances  over the whole qualifying group,you turned in the most
    dominant/encouraging performances of all four teams even though you
    did not get the required results...................I also believe 
    that its a shame we are gonna have to hold our breaths & hope that the
    English fans behave themselves.Also,the Irish fans/banter/enjoyment
    /colour will definitely be sorely missed.
    
                                                 

    re .180  SANT...
    
    glad you appreciate the thanx...I hope you do well...However those
    non-football related issues , well, lets just say there isnt the
    chasm that you think between our countries. There are a lot us
    over here who dont have *ANY* time for that lot either, and I think
    you know who I'm talking about...8^)
    
    Good luck.
           
    Can we maybe arrange for Jimmy Hill to be on Jack Charlton's favorite
    duck hunting ground, marked with bright yellow paint, sometime next
    May?    8^)
    
    *Tiger*

    I hope the Irish half is off limits to you tonight and for the rest of
    the week-end!!!!
    
    Paul

    I suggest that the paint should be put on Jimmy's chin!!
    
    Can I say that "tiger" is quite right about there not being that big a
    chasm between us. It's just that it sometimes takes very little to
    widen it. Paul Watterson has the gift to do this but does he have to??
    Why can't he sit back and save up his money for Summer.
    
    cheers,
    
    Paul 

    re. -2
    
    candidate for note of the year?
    ;-)
    Ian.
    

    re. last
    
    -2 should be -3, grief youre so fast!
    Ian.
    

    
    Re .186
    Well she has had a permanent headache since Wednesday..... :-).

    
    
    But seriously, I hope I'm not offending anyone too much, but I'm sure
    you lot(the Irish noters) would have been giving us (English noters) as
    much abuse if Lineker hadn't equalised on Wednesday night..
    
    Paul
                             

    Of course we would have, but that still doesn't make it correct.....
    
    	- Robin

	Now England have struggled through this qualifying group, made difficult
by Ireland, I think they have got an excellent chance of doing well in the
finals. It is likely that Gasciogne, Barnes, Wright and Parker will be back
in the team, plus a number of younger players such as Lee Martin, John Ebbrell,
Shearer, Matthew Le Tissier, and Tony Daley.

	Unfortunately, England do not have the supporters to back up the team
or manager. If only England supporters could behave like Irish supporters
then people like me would go to Sweden. I would love to go out there and have
a good drink, talk loads of rubbish about football, and enjoy the games. However,
I will watch the finals on television in the local pub, and poor old Mats and
people will have to put up with a load of ignorant English pillocks shouting
abuse and vandalising everything.

	At least Graham Taylor tries to win, he is not the nervous, hesitant,
and worried manager Bobby Robson used to be. He picks a team to do a job and
is not afraid to alter plans during the game.

	Bad luck Ireland, but this is not the first time Graham Taylor has
done this to Jack Charlton.

				Steve.


	P.S. I must admit I am a Watford supporter.  

    for the irish noters who are interested in a little revenge...
    
    i will be holding an auction of Paul Wattersons address later.
    Ian.
    

    
    
>>    But seriously, I hope I'm not offending anyone too much, but I'm sure
>>    you lot(the Irish noters) would have been giving us (English noters) as
>>    much abuse if Lineker hadn't equalised on Wednesday night..
    
      Of course, would a Bear sh*t in the woods !!! As I said earlier the 
Banter and great rivalry between genuine football supporters of both nations
is a great asset to the game and especially this notesfile. 

However having said all that, there were some unusual comments made in some of 
the last notes. Regarding the British media and in particular the tabloids and
Messrs Hill & Motson, they are an absolute disgrace to all concerning football.
Remember the personal attacks made on Bobby Robson in Euro'88 & Italia'90, they 
practially pushed the man to a nervous breakdown. My point is that they play on
a persons emotions and a weak character will always suffer at their hands.
On the other hand, and only as an example, Jack Charlton is a strong character
who minds his "P's & Q's" so as not to give the media an edge to lever him from 
his position. As you can see the Irish team are now being blamed as a unit for
not qualifying rather than any one individual. As in Englands case, Taylors job
was on the line on Wednesday night and public pressure fuelled by the "gutter 
media" would have his scalp, had England lost.  

As for England being the best team in the world, the fact remains that this 
stems from a stigma passed from generation to generation. In the last 300 years 
the English almost colonised the whole world and this gave them a somewhat 
false sense of supremacy. This is subconciously portrayed by every decent 
English gentleman. Added to the fact that the won a world cup on home soil in 
1966 this gives them the divine right to be "the best in the world" BUT only
until 1970. They have not given us any hint since 1966, other than the European 
club competitions, that they could reproduce this form. The only reminder of 
the event was the hearlding of the team of '66, 25 years on, as a sense of 
security of their supremacy and as a reminder, lest it be forgotten, of their
fine achievement in Wembley 1966.

And finally in summing up you honour, The matter of all teams wanting to beat 
the English stems from a point that I made earlier about the colonisation of 
certain parts of the world. They plundered and pilfered in those conquests and
as a result, again passed from generation to generation, they are constantly 
a target for defeat. All football teams playing against the English will play 
attacking football so as to "defeat the enemy" early on. The Irish on the other 
hand have a reputation of being an attacking side so many teams defend against
them, the only trouble is that the Irish are not 100% in that department now.

I have no hatred for the English, its just that their view of the world is not
the same as that of the majority of the rest of the globe. Indeed after the 
Americans the English rather than the British are looked on as the bastions
of normal society. Quite an honour. We Irish, well we built half of the USA
and GB so that must count for something.... possibly the fact that half the
Irish football team were born in Great Britian.

Rgds,
Shaughs.

	re .184

>    The English must be one of the most hated nations in the world anyway-

	Come on, now. Most of the world has moved on from hating the
	English to hating the Americans.

	re .195

> the English stems from a point that I made earlier about the colonisation of 
> certain parts of the world. They plundered and pilfered in those conquests and
> as a result, again passed from generation to generation, they are constantly 
> a target for defeat. All football teams playing against the English will play 

	If this argument is valid, then there must be many footballing
	nations who are out to stuff the Spanish.

	Tony

    Paul,
    
    You're not offending anyone. You're committing minor off the ball
    offences with your comments but.....
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    .....that's nothing to what you'd get if we had qualified!!!!!!!!!!
    
    
    
    Paul
    
    
    
    
    

    re -1....
    
    Matts , how do I get to Norkopping?.....
    
    *Tiger*

    
    I'm in the process of writing up my experiences in Turkey.  I was one
    of the lucky ones that got in and that didn't get beaten up.
    
    As for qualifying well, we came so close but intruth we didn't deserve
    it.  We may have been the best side in the group but we failed to win
    our 3 previous games each of which should have been won.  We failed to
    put England away at Wembley, we failed at home to Poland and then in
    Poznan we had the game won and blew it.  A win in any of those 3 games
    would have been enough.  We played very well last Wednesday with a
    scratch side.  Yes England were lucky on a few occasions but we have
    only ourselves to blame.
    
    As for the organisation (or rather the lack of it) and the attacks on
    Irish fans I wouldn't wish the Turkish fans on anyone even the minority
    of hooligans among the English fans.  This was in support of a team
    which had no goals and no points.  I dread to think what it would have
    been like if they had a chance of qualifying.
    
    Gary. 

    Mats,
    can you give me directions for the local bank when I get off the
    train at NordKopping?   8^)....
    
    Gary,
    
    glad you made it back alive..by all accounts it was a nightmare.
    A friend of mine came back with loads of leather for his mott.
    No, not bondage gear, just suits and jackets....the swine..
    the rest of us husbands /boyfriends are getting grief about how
    generous and thoughtful Des is. huh!
    
    *Tiger*

    Gary,
    
    I was inside in Murphy's watching the news and having a quiet scoop
    when I saw your head nodding away behind Charlton.
    
    You have neck for 4 giraffes!!!!  Welcome back.
    
    Paul

    I heard a 69 year old man on the Gerry Ryan show on Monday who was
    attacked by Turks.  This prompted a barage of calls with similar
    experiences - two girls were kidnapped for 4 hours, we were spared the
    details; two eldery men in my father's hotel suffered a broken nopse
    and 15 stitches repectively; another fan got 18 stitches after being
    split inside the ground with a bolt - all medical attention was refused
    - they had to flee the threat of a beating by the police who brought
    them to a medical room minus anything except darkness and 4 walls; 
    several fans couldn't get their seats as they were occupied by police!;
    two couples were beaten up 100 yds from their hotel....
    
    Considering some of the punishments teams such as Bohs, Celtic,
    Newcastle, Leeds etc. have had meted out by UEFA over the years, often
    for relatively minor incidents, these bastards should be banned from
    playing home games for many years.
    
    THE FAI have made an official complaint.
    
    Shane

    They won't Shane because a wide spectrum of opinion, most of it outside
    football, will start screaming prejudice etc.
    
    Paul

    
    The next 2 notes are very long.  The first contains an account of my
    trip to Poland and the second an account of my trip to Turkey.
    
    The Poland one was written a couple of weeks ago.
    
    
    Gary.

    re.last two entries
    
    Brillian Gary !!!
    

    
    re .208 & .209,
                   Excellent notes Gary worthy of inclusion in any paper
    or magazine.
    
           Cunno
    
         
    

    That's all very fine Gary but what's more important is Manchester
    United's RELENTLESS push on the title.
    
    
    Still, great stuff, and when is the draw for the World Cup???
    
    Paul

  
>>    Still, great stuff, and when is the draw for the World Cup???
    
      December 8th in New york. Broadcast live on RTE as well dunno the 
time though !!!

Shaughs.

    
    Gary,
    
    its sad to not having you and the rest of the Irish fans here in Sweden
    next summer. Before writing to that beautiful Susanne and Peggy,
    remember that you are welcome to visit anyway. Arrangement can be made
    for your staying. If not, just give me the address to those two girls,
    and i can do the explaining why you are not coming...;-)
    
    Mats

    Gary,
    
    
    Who is he on about?
    
    Paul

Thanks a lot for that, Gary - glad you made it back to write it!

grahame

    
	Thanks for all the good wishes.
    
    	Paul, see the last paragraph of my Turkey report.
   
    > for your staying. If not, just give me the address to those two girls,
    >and i can do the explaining why you are not coming...;-)
    
    Mats, what a pal.  I suppose you'dd even go and do it in person.  :-)
    
    I wouldn't mind visiting anyway however finance is the problem.  I'll
    be paying for Turkey for a while yet and the world Cup qualifiers start
    up again in September.  I'll just have to cheer Scotland and England's
    opponents on from my living room (or the pub :-)).  If I win the
    lottery between now and June I might make it to the 4 team tournament
    in the U.S. if not there's always the world cup.  Maybe we'll draw
    Sweden in the qualifiers.  Now there's a thought........
    
    Gary.

    To the person from from REO who sent me newspaper cuttings and also
    some pieces of the Sun with text extolling England's success in
    qualifying for Sweden, can I express my thanks.
    
    I know you meant well and weren't winding but the paper is unsuitable
    in neither being long, strong or soft enough.
    
    However I'll return it to the sender on request after the Championships
    in Sweden so he/she can try using it.
    
    best regards,
    
    Paul

    WHAT? First of all Cunno starts terrorising people with his equivalent
    of letter bombs, the dreaded 'Aldo mails'.
    
    Now somebody is actually cruel enough to SEND normal, God fearing people
    bits of the Sun!! There are some cruel b@stards out there!!
    
    >    in neither being long, strong or soft enough.
    
    Strong and soft O.K. BUT LONG????? The mind boggles!! **-|

    Who are you calling normal and God fearing??  We're Manchester United
    supporters when we don't follow Ireland. That is except Cunno and a few
    more.
    
    
    
    

Whats this I hear about Ireland still in with a chance to go to Sweden 
I heard it on 98FM news here in Ireland ??

Rgds,
Shaughs.

    
    Re -1,
    
    I can only presume it's for a friendly.  Even if the USSR and
    Yugoslavia withdrew Wales and Denmark have the best records of the
    runners up or Italy (assuming they beat Cyprus) and Denmark would go
    through as runners up to the Soviets and the Yugoslavs.
    
    We had similiar stories in the press here in 1982 that we'd be off to
    Spain because the Africans were withdrawing.  i hope this is just the
    usual rubbish with the media keen to write anything on the Irish team.
    
    Gary.

    
    FIFA have decided to take no action against Turkey after the 
    incidents following the Turkey v Ireland game in Istanbul.
    Apparently the FIFA observer saw nothing. 
    
    I find this amazing.
    
    Gary.

    	Of course they saw nothing Gary - They weren't English fans!!!