Conference trucks::football;1

    John,
    
    As an American and as a soccer fan I could not have said it better or
    with more passion and restraint at the same time
    
    the replies will be interesting
    
    rick toman
    
    Mission Viejo, CA
    

    
    John,John,John !!
    	You seem to have taken all of this a little bit too seriously.All
    the notes from we Europeans in 387 were just a bit of fun,nothing was
    meant by all the replies to Harry's original note.If you and a few
    others honestly believe that we agree with,and get away with,violence
    on the fooball park,then there is something far wrong.Only recently a
    Glasgow Rangers player received a twelve match ban for head-butting a
    fellow professional on the park.The police are also charging him with
    common assault,and it looks as though he wiil end up with a prison 
    sentence.
    This incident happened in front of 45,000 people and millions more have
    seen the incident in TV.
    Verbal assaults on Refs by coaches/managers are dealt with by the
    football authorities with touchline bans and fines.
    I think this shows that we deal with soccer violence very severely,as
    it should be.
    As I said earlier the notes in 387 were all supposed to be a bit of fun
    that you seem to have taken the wrong way.
    
    However,there are many people who feel that the changes the US are/were
    trying to make to the game would have an adverse effect on the game.
    Making the goals bigger,splitting the game into 1/4's etc.are designed
    to suit TV/sponsors.
    I agree there is no getting away from the fact that football is now
    more of a business than ever before,but the spectator must come first,
    as without the paying public,no company would be interested in
    sponsorship.
    That is why people,over this side of the water,are against such big
    changes in the game.After all it IS a spectator sport.
    
    With reference to the terms and terminology used within the game,this
    was also just a piece of light hearted fun.
    You can call the game and its rules whatever you like,some people
    do,now and again,call the game soccer over here.
    
    Finally,thanks for informing us of the definition of a Field
    Co-ordinator.
    
    

    .0
    
    John,
    
    keep up the good work....the kids are the future of this game, THE most
    popular game in the world. The biggest problem that the rest of the
    world has with the American game, in my opinion, is this perceived notion 
    that the US football authorities will change the way the game has been 
    played throughout the world for over 100 years, i.e. 3 or maybe 4 periods 
    in the game, no off-side, unlimited substitutions etc.etc.. In other words,
    totally sell the game of football to TV who will, in my opinion, ruin
    the game as a spectacle. I'm not sure how true this is but if it is
    true then soccer/football in the USA will go down the same road as
    before, a year or two of success before crowds start to dwindle and the
    sponsorship goes away. I hope that I'm wrong, by the way. America is
    probably the last great market for soccer to break into. The outcome
    could be very important to the future of the global game.... 
    
    
    Ray....

    John,
    
    Good note. Welcome to write-mode in the conference. Had the original
    note been entered in the same informative, non-confrontational (see
    below) manner then it may have been received better. Having said that, 
    I think that part of the problem, on both sides, is the language 
    difference. I'm not being funny. I have found that Americans and 
    European English speakers tend to express themselves very differently. 
    This can, in turn, lead to mis-interpretations. So, in this case perhaps 
    some of us Europeans interpreted the original note as being a hostile 
    "We know best" note. It was this perception which drove the majority of 
    those that answered. As a result, the replies had less to do with the 
    content or issues from the original note, and were more of a defense 
    mechanism reaction. Similarly, a lot of these replies were in a 
    sarcastic vein, which may not have been picked up on by our American 
    colleagues.
    
    
    Another point springs to mind regarding the "Made for TV" game changes. 
    In the UK (and probably the rest of Europe), League Football/Soccer is 
    predominantly aimed at the fans who actually attend the game, as opposed 
    to TV audiences. In the Premiership, about 11 games take place each
    weekend. Of these 11, only 1 (usually) is shown live on TV (on a
    subscription satelite channel). This game is usually moved either to 
    Sunday, or to after the normal Kick-Off time on Saturday. This is 
    intended to prevent TV taking fans away from the matches. Of course, 
    the big difference here is geographical. Travelling fans seldom face 
    more than a three or four hour DRIVE in the UK. The situation is 
    obviously very different in the States, given the wider spread of the 
    teams involved. 
    
    Anyway, I think I'm going on a bit, and I'm not too sure I'm saying
    anything new. Apologies to the author of the original note (whose name
    escapes me). Perhaps it will serve as a reminder to noters here that
    some thought should be given to how other notes are written, to avoid
    ambiguities or misinterpretations.
    
    Bye for now,
    
    Jerry.
    
    P.S. When I was growing up in Ireland, I and most people I knew referred
    to Football as Soccer. I presume this was to differentiate between it
    and Gaelic Football, which was one of the the two main national sports
    at the time. (Since Jack came along, we now have three national sports
    ;-) ). For this reason I was surprised to see people take exception,
    albeit in jest, to this word in the original note. I guess that makes 
    me an outcast too !
    

I liked your note John. A well constructed argument. The only area I'd like to
express an adverse opinion on ,is that of "Americans liking scoring". 

This I feel is where the Americans lose the whole essence of the enjoyment of
football. I've seen and played in some of the best games where the score ended
up 0-0. The objective may be to score but the real-time artistry and invention
in trying to score is what makes the game so great. On the whole it's split
second decisions that win games not pre-arranged "plays".

It's the continuous ebb and flow , the continuous non stop creation on a pitch
where one team try to outsmart the other, with at the best level, what has to be
an almost psychic understanding of your teammates play , your opponents play and
an outlined pattern of play determined by the manager.

It's the fact that once players are on a pitch it is out of the managers hands.
Players have to make it up as they go along and it's the scarcity of goals in
football that makes a goal something to treasure.

It's being able to delight in an inch perfect pass , a perfectly timed tackle ,
a spectacular save , a one-two ,when ,even though it doesn't come off, you could
see what was in the players mind , a shot that even though it misses the goal
was a moment of brilliance( Pele's lob and high speed dummy are two perfect
examples ). There's so much to enjoy in football appart from scoring that it's a
crying shame to overlook it.

Football is like good sex. Plenty of inventive foreplay and when you score...
Yessssssssssssssssssssssssss !!!!!!!!!!!! Ohmygod Yessssssssssssssssssssss.;-)

American games. Well on the whole, very quick , lots of noise , is good the
first couple of times but when your plays are pre-arranged all the time and
there's that much shooting it gets a little boring and tiring to say the least.
(Or so I've been told)

Try explaining that to kids ;-)

Keep it up,

Peter



 

    (yes, it's me again)  :{)
    
    I remember a time (probably indicating my age) when American TV
    networks declared that tennis and golf could never be viable 
    TV spectator sports.  But today, an incredible amount of time
    on weekends is devoted to these sports on several networks.  One
    reason for this, I think, is that the pace and timing of the
    action (and inaction) permits LOTS of commercial time to sell
    sponsors' products.
    
    I have heard it said that soccer's running 45-min halves with no
    time for commercial "time outs" is one of the stumbling blocks to
    success on American TV...perhaps.
    
    It is just as likely that the poor quality of American game
    commentators (or "announcers", or whatever the "true" term :{) 
    may be) has not reesulted in an informed viewer, as it has
    with American Football (National Football League).  There are
    many Americans who have never played (American) football, yet,
    through quality announcing/commenting by knowledgable people,
    they can spot many of the common fouls as they develop during
    play; they can also anticipate certain plays and strategies.
    I have yet to hear an American annouuncer with enough knowledge
    and broadcasting skill to do the same at a soccer game.  Perhaps
    that will change, but I think it will take several more years
    for this to develop.
    
    To change the subject a little, there has been much criticism
    of attempts to change the game, supposedly an effort of the
    American TV networks.  I have the impression that there are
    many others in the various world Football organizations that 
    want to change the game as well to encourage more scoring and
    winning.  Was the pass back to the keeper rule instituted for
    TV viewers?  I have seen other international experimentation
    as well, such as last year's U19 world championships, where
    there were kick-ins from the touchlines instead of throw-ins.
    Where did this come from?  I am not much in favor of changing the 
    game at all, with one exception: fouls.  The game as it is evolving
    in the US is becoming more competitive, and there is growing
    concern about the type and number of fouls committed.  In several
    youth tournaments recently, the tie-breaking procedures have been
    modified so that the first tie-breaker is the number of red cards
    and yellow cards.  I have read about suggestions by various 
    international organizations and players that a form of "technical
    foul", similar to what is done in American Basketball, be called
    against a team once a certain number of individual fouls is passed
    (I think some American youth leagues are planning to experiment 
    with this).
    
    As a long-time soccer fan, coach, and referee, I enjoy the tradition
    of the sport, but I understand that it will continue to change and
    evolve.  I certainly don't want the sport "ruined" by overly
    commercial attempts to make the game more profitable in American
    TV markets.  On that, I think, we can all agree.
    
    Oh, and to add insult to injury, as they say, here are my 1st & 2nd
    place picks for the first stage games:
    
    Group A: Colombia, USA
    Group B: Brazil, Sweden
    Group C: Germany, South Korea
    Group D: Argentina, Nigeria
    Group E: Mexico, Italy
    Group F: Holland, Belgium
    
    I would not chance a guess on the finalists, other than to predict
    that the traditional winners won't be celebrating (and NO, I am
    not predicting US as a finalist!  I'm a fan, but I'm a realist!)
    

  John that was an excellent note... It must have taken you the whole day?????
I personally feel that most folks in the states will have problems accepting
footie-soccie as a major sport..... Remember years ago when all the big stars
played over there... ala Pele, Beckenbaur, Cruyff etc.... after a few years it
fell apart... I hope it survives....

   Jerry your right.... back home we called the game Soccer.... and Gaelic 
Football footie....

  Peter I watched the Knicks Rockets 3rd game live on tv sunday night and it
was exciting stuff right to the end.... unlike Football...  Game 4 is on 
tonight, should be exciting  stuff.. especially after the Rangers won the
Stanley cup last night....  opps this is the footie conf



                                                         -dave-

    

re. .7

Atcually, I wrote it Sunday night. Re-did it Monday night. Entered it 
Tuesday night.


A couple of notes ..actually, I do like the kiddin around.

you all have some funny slang ...
BURST ... no "you BUST em" ...
NUTTERED .. no, "you put their lights out"


Glad to see that the violence is being taken care of. Of course over here 
the sports highlights like to show the nasty stuff. On the other hand, 
watching Australian football, and I am not quite sure that they have ANY 
rules ...

About the game, at the higher levels, I do NOT want them changing the game. 
In the early days of soccer, instead of a throw in you could do a kick in. 
Think about that, a kick-in at mid field with no off sides. Be just like a 
corner kick ... It was discussed at the last national meeting. If we give it 
a try here in youth soccer I will let you know.


Question for ya blokes ..

1950, World Cup, think it was the finals, think it was ,,, US vs England,,,,
and the winner was ???   (:-)

	John

    John,
    
    You don't have to go back that far !   Just ask Andrew, he was there
    ;-)
    
    Talking about slang. I was visiting an american friend here recently.
    When he handed me my fifth beer I said "Next time we're in the Pub, I'm
    going to get you pissed !"  He replied "Why, what are you gonna do ?"  I
    said "Buy you loads of beer !". He replied "I'm not gonna get pissed if
    you buy me beer !". I said "So you reckon you can hold a lot of beer,
    then ?"  He said "Ohhh, you mean pissed drunk !". (as opposed to pissed
    off !).
    
    Jerry.
                       

    John,
    
    I enjoyed reading your note.
    I hadn't read the initial note (387.) that you spoke of until just now,
    and many of the replies that followed certainly seemed out of line. As
    you surely have noticed, sarcasm is the main ingredient for the
    majority the notes in this file but some of the 387. replies were
    excessive. One of the things that we have to deal with (or ignore) in
    this country is the so called "expert by accent." Someone who has been
    born in a major soccer playing country who feels the need to express
    themselves purely on the basis of having an accent. Certainly not all
    "foriegners" succumb to this, their are many who truly love the game
    and concern themselves with helping to develop it in America (i.e.
    Bobby Clark, Bobby Howe, Roy Rees etc.). Maybe it would be like our
    baseball players going abroad and being accepted as authorities on the
    game, not based on their playing/coaching ability or their knowledge of the
    game, but by the fact that they were from the U.S., and the U.S. is a
    great baseball playing country, therefore they must know the game by
    osmosis.
    
    Does this happen in the United States soccer community? Yes. Is there
    anything we can do about it? Not really. We'll just have to recognize
    it and deal with it until our National Team achieves a regular degree
    of success on the international level and the "experts by accent" no
    longer feel the need to impart wisdom upon the little, old, U.S.
    
    My sermon is over.
    
    Bryan
    
    

    re:10
    
    I love it---"experts by accent"  
    
    rick

re: a couple or so back.

CEEFAX had a short the other day that said as an experiment the Diadora League were
going to have throw-ins or kicks-ins next season. Can anybody else confirm this??

My apologies for this minor distraction from the minor thread.

What do the American noters here think of the attempts to change the game for the
American public e.g.  Mr. Agali's thoughts on a soccer league called League Soccer 1??
This zones the pitch and modifies the points for a goal depending on where a goal is
scored from. In addition, the implication was that specific players on each side were
only allowed in certain zones on the pitch. There will be no draws - the match goes
to sudden death c.f. the Japanese League. FYI, this topic was raised in the World Cup
Special Standing Room Only on BBC2 last night (repeated 5.30 on Saturday).

Regards
Kevin

    Diadora League is indeed experimenting with kick-ins next season
    (according to today's Wokingham Times).  If a Kick-in is taken (it is
    an option, not mandatory) all opposing players have to be 10 yds from
    the ball, a goal may not be scored direct, you may not be offside, and
    the goalkeeper may not pick the ball up direct from a kick-in.
    
    
    Nev

    Ouch!  More for the poor referee to keep track of.
    

	re .0

> Don't know if this is a difference, but substitution. Here in the states, the 
> saying is, "Let the kids play". So we have unlimited substitution, not at the 
> national or regional level, but at 99% of all youth, U8 through U19. So, we 
> are more, all out sprint, save no energy oriented. Get tired, you sub. It is 
> not acceptable to have a kid sitting the bench the whole game, no matter what 

	I don't follow your reasoning. Why not just split the kids into enough
	groups for them all to get a full game? This could be done in such a
	way that each group was made up of players with a comparable (lack of?) 
	ability.
	
	re .5

> It's the fact that once players are on a pitch it is out of the managers hands.

	This is one of the things that makes the game un-American. In American
	football, it is common for a substitution to be made so that a player
	can bring on the latest "play" decision from the manager. In baseball,
	not only is there a constant procession of coaching staff to the
	pitcher's mound, but a player rounding third base is expected to rely
	on the decision of the "third base coach" as to whether he should try
	for home. The idea that the players might think for themselves is
	subversive, if not communistic.

	re .6

>    networks declared that tennis and golf could never be viable 
>    TV spectator sports.  But today, an incredible amount of time

	Yes, and in Britain snooker and darts get a fairish amount of air time.
	If "500 channels of TV" happens, there will probably be one devoted to
	paint drying.

	Tony