Conference trucks::football;1

Here are some results from last weekend and yesterday

Graafschap 2 Dundee 1
Vitesse 1  Valencia 2

Last night Utrecht played against Valencia, it was not a good game but
Utrecht at least tryed, the attacked from the first minute but still have 
problems scoring a goal. The first half was completely for Utrecht with
Valencia only crossin' the middle line a few times. In the second half one of
subs who came in had a good change after a few minutes but blew it, again
a few minutes later the same guy goes alone at the keeper and get's kicked
from the back like it was an ECI final. The Spanish player received a red
card but the Utrecht player had to leave the pitch on a strecher (SP?) and
the leatest news is he broke his shoulders, nice guys the Spanish, kickin'
like hell in a friendly. After this incident the match was over Utrecht players
only lookin' for a change to get even and not paying enough attention to the
ball wich resulted in the first (and only) attack by the Spanish and the
only goal of the match.

FC utrecht 0  Valencia 1

T_

Here are the results of the Amsterdam 716 Tournament, played Friday and
yesterday.

Friday:

PSV 2  Sampdoria 1
Two reds cards for Sampdoria players

Ajax 3 Fluminense (SP) (Brasil) 1

Sunday:

PSV ? Fluminense ? 
I only now PSV won

Ajax 4  Sampdoria 1
Again two red cards for Sampdoria players


T_

rep -1

>>Sunday:

>>PSV ? Fluminense ? 
>>I only now PSV won


Well PSV didn't win, after 90 minutes it was 1-1 and Flumi won the penalty 
serie.

T_

I will be in Utrecht next week and hoping to catch the U's in action. Are they
at home on the 25th???

Tony

             <<< Note 15.4 by HERON::ARNOLD "Now Heading North!" >>>
                               -< Here I come! >-

>>I will be in Utrecht next week and hoping to catch the U's in action. Are they
>>at home on the 25th???

>>Tony

Tony,

The U's are playing away next sunday (18th) against PSV, on Wednesday the
21th they'll play at home, donno against who at the moment but I'll check it
out for you, Sunday the 25th is probably another away game. The reason I don't
know exacly is that the KNVB have re-written the fixture list several times.

I'll get more info before Friday.

Cheers,

the BIG T_

Last night for the first time there was a match for the Super cup
between the champions PSV and the cup-holders Feyenoord. It was played
in Rotterdam and there was a crowd of 30.000 people. The match has been
on tv but I came home late last night so I didn't see anything.

Feyenoord won 1-0 with an early goal in the first half, it seems to have
been quite a rough game, with lots of yellow cards and two red cards, one
for each team. PSV striker Romario was kicked out and will be recovering
for about two weeks, the other PSV striker Wim Kieft received a bunch of
stiches (SP?) in his head as one of the Feyenoord defenders found it necesarry
to elbow him in the head.

T_

Tony,

Here is the first part of the Utrecht fixture list

18/8 (sunday) PSV away
21/8 (wedday) match PP
25/8 (sunday) match PP
28/8 (wedday) RKC home
 1/9 (sunday) Graafschap home
 4/9 (wedday) Willem II home
 8/9 (sunday) Fortuna S away
15/9 (sunday) FC Twente home
22/9 (sunday) Sparta away


T_

Here are the results of the first round in the league in Holland.

FC Groningen -  Willem II  1-0
RKC  - De Graafschap  2-1
MVV - Fortuna S  0-0
Feyenoord - FC Twente  1-0
Volendam - Sparta  1-1
FC VVV - Roda JC  1-3
PSV - FC Utrecht  2-1

The other two matches were postponed, one 'cause Ajax played a tournament in
Spain, the second 'cause some city council didn't want FC den Haag supporters
in their city yesterday.

Utrecht had a good game against PSV and took the lead after only 3 minutes,
when PSV goalie van Breukelen fauled (SP?) Smolarek in the box, Roest kicked
in the penalty, during the first half en more then half of the second half
Utrecht dominated the game and had a least a dozen changes for another goal
but failed. Then Robson brought on two fresh players and changed the tactics.
PSV then started to get more grip on the match but Utrecht were still in charge.
Then with only few minutes to go PSV player Popescu hit the ball hard and just
as it reached the Utrecht goalie it bouched up so he stoped it but could'nt
hold the ball, Ellerman then hit it in. Utrecht took the kick-off and had to
supurb shots at goal supurb stopped by van Breukelen. Then PSV attacked again
and after a scrimage in the Utrecht box Kieft hit the ball wich hitted a Utrecht
defender and out of reach of the Utrecht goal-keeper bounced in the goal.
Kieft didn't cheer about the goal and said for Dutch radio after the match
that it was a disgrace the way PSV played and that they didn't deserved the
second goal.

A big head-line this morning in the Telegraaf said:

Utrecht moral winner in Eindhoven

Nice, but you can't buy anything from that, I just hope we keep on playing
this way and we could end up with the top four again.

T_

Here are the results of this weekend in the league in Holland, mind you
this was the first full program played since the start of the season. I've
also included the current table.

T_

Volendam - MVV  2-0
Vitesse - PSV  1-2
SVV/Dordrecht - RKC  3-2
FC VVV - FC Groningen  1-2
Roda JC - De Graafschap  3-2
FC Den Haag - FC Utrecht  0-0
Ajax - Fortuna S  3-1
Sparta - FC Twente  3-2
Willem II - Feyenoord  1-4


Team                  Pl.  W  D  L  Po  Goals

Vitesse               10   5  3  2  13   16 -  8
Sparta                10   5  3  2  13   19 - 18
PSV                    6   6  0  0  12   19 -  6
Feyenoord              8   5  2  1  12   11 -  4
FC Twente             10   5  2  3  12   14 -  9
Roda JC               10   5  2  3  12   13 - 14
Ajax                   6   5  1  0  11   19 -  3
RKC                   10   3  4  3  10   21 - 19
Volendam              10   4  2  4  10   13 - 11
MVV                   10   4  2  4  10   10 - 13
FC Utrecht             8   2  4  2   8    9 -  8
SVV/Dordrecht         10   3  2  5   8   19 - 24
FC Groningen           8   2  3  3   7   11 - 13
Willem II             10   2  3  5   7   12 - 15
FC Den Haag            7   1  4  2   6    9 - 13
Fortuna S             10   0  6  4   6   12 - 21
De Graafschap         10   1  1  8   3    9 - 22
FC VVV                 9   0  2  7   2    6 - 21

Here are the results of this weekend in the league in Holland.

FC Groningen - SVV/Dordrecht 90  5-0
RKC - Vitesse  1-0
Sparta - Willem II  1-1
FC Utrecht - Roda JC  3-1
FC Den Haag - PSV  0-2
MVV - Feyenoord  0-1

I would like to know if there are people out there who appreciate getting
the results from the Dutch league, I some tiems get the feeling I'm just
entering this for Sh*t, normally I wouldn't matter but I'm very busy at the
moment so I've nobody is interested I could put my time in other things.

T_

    
    	Don't stop, Ton...I enjoy keeping up to date with all the European
    	results and like to know who's leading/playing well/playing badly
    	in all the main leagues. I also keep a weather-eye on how our
    	former "illustrious leader" is getting on at PSV.
    
    	So here's a vote for your continued input!
    
    	Andy.

    Keep up the good work Ton. I'm currently sitting in a cupboard under
    the stairs at Telecom91 hanging on to every word.
    
    Tony

rep last few

Ok ok ok I'll keep it going.


T_

ps full program tonight with the big game Feyenoord - PSV


T_

            <<< Note 15.16 by HERON::ARNOLD "Now Heading North!" >>>
                                -< C'mon U U's >-

>>    Keep up the good work Ton. I'm currently sitting in a cupboard under
>>    the stairs at Telecom91 hanging on to every word.
    
>>    Tony


Tony,

Where the hell have you been, I've been keeping a seat free for you in
beautiful Galgenwaard for a couple of weeks! You missed that european
match against Graz, the football wasn't that good but the atmosphere was
supurb and it will be better against Real Madrid. I know everybody thinks
we will get crushed but I predict that we at least will win one game and
get run over the second, the Utrecht coach Ab Fafie aka as King Ab (his
nickname in every part of Holland after some guys hang up a big board
with this on it last season) said it like this:

"well if you have to be run over it's better to get done by a Cadillac
 than a Volkswagen", I must say he has got apoint there. 

As for getting at least one game, we have always did that in European
football, in the early 80's we beat Eintracht Frankfurt at home 2-1 (lost away
3-1) we beat the mighty HSV (in those days) in Hamburg 1-0 (lost at home
6-3) and let's not forget the first round ECWC 1985 when we played Dynamo
Kiev, we beat them 2-1 at home with Dynamo scoring a goal in the last minute,
away we scored the first goal and 1000 Utrecht supporters made more noise
than 80.000 russians/georgians but again we got run over and lost 3-1, it
wasn't a shame 'cause Kiev won the ECWC that season and we were the only
team that managed to beat them.

So roll on Madrid we'll eat you alive.

T_

Here are the results of tonight's games in the Dutch league, PSV dropping
their first point and played another crap game (that haven't done anthing
else since the start of this season)

Feyenoord - PSV  1-1
FC Volendam - RKC  P-P due to heavy fog
Vitesse - FC Groningen  0-0
SVV/Dordrecht 90 - De Graafschap  3-1
FC VVV - FC Utrecht  1-1  Wlodi Smolarek missed a penalty
Roda JC - Fortuna S  0-0
FC Den Haag - FC Twente  0-4
Ajax - Sparta  4-0
Willem II - MVV  0-0

In the first division two games where PP due to heavy fog and four
others got stopped due to the same problem

T_

    Sorry I missed ya Ton, we were working silly hours at Decus (and in the 
    bar at the hotel).
    Tony

            <<< Note 15.21 by HERON::ARNOLD "Now Heading North!" >>>

>>    Sorry I missed ya Ton, we were working silly hours at Decus (and in the 
>>    bar at the hotel).
>>    Tony

Probably in this order:

1st  Bar
2scd Bar
etc
10th Decus

T_ :-) :-)

    Contrary to rumors flying around Utrecht I was NOT p*ssed when I fell
    down the stairs in the hotel, my sudden inability to predict what my
    legs would do next was brought on by strain and fatigue!
    
    Tony

            <<< Note 15.23 by HERON::ARNOLD "Now Heading North!" >>>

>>    Contrary to rumors flying around Utrecht I was NOT p*ssed when I fell
>>    down the stairs in the hotel, my sudden inability to predict what my
>>    legs would do next was brought on by strain and fatigue!
    
>>   Tony

I didn't hear of that one yet but I think you forgot to mention the huge 
amount of Grolsch you were carrying :-)

T_

Last weekend just one league game was played, all other games were pp due
to the fact that we play Portugal on Wednesday, in stead the second round
of the KNVB cup was played (the first 11 teams from last season are starting
to compete in the tirth round)

League

FC Den Haag - Feyenoord  1-4

Feyenoord head of the table at the moment, for the first time in six years.


KNVB Cup

P = Premier
F = 1st Division
A = Amateurs

Rozenburg A - Heerenveen F  3-0
FC VVV P - Quick'20 A  3-0
NEC F - Spijkenisse A  5-0
Telstar F - Elinkwijk A  5-0
FC Zwolle F - Rheden A  0-2
Eindhoven F - IJsselmeervogels {  1-0
NAC F - De Treffers A  6-1
Haarlem F - Excelsior Maassluis A  2-0
SC Cambuur F - Halsteren A  2-2  Cambuur wins after penalties
Emmen F - Noordwijk A  2-1
Zeeland F - SV Meerssen A  2-3 after extra time
RBC F - Quick Boys A  5-1
Veendam F - DOVO A  3-1
TOP F - Spakenburg A  2-1
FC Den Bosch F - SVV/Dordrecht '90 P  4-1
MVV P - De Graafschap P  4-0
Helmond Sport F - Fortuna Sittard P  3-2
Wageningen F - Heracles F  3-3 Wageningen wins after penalties
Excelsior F - OJC A  4-1
Sparta P - Go Ahead Eagles F  4-1

AZ v FC Den Haag PP cause Den Haag played Feyenoord on Sunday.

T_ 

    A Testimonial match for Frans Thijssen is to be held on Tuesday
    12 Nov. at 19.30 in Arnhem. Vitesse Arnhem will play Ipswich Town.
    
    Just in case anyone is interested.
    
    Tim

Dutch League results from this weekend

FC Groningen - Volendam  1-0
RKC - Feyenoord  2-3
De Graafschap - Vitesse  2-0
FC Utrecht - SVV/Dordrecht  1-1
Sparta - FC Den Haag  4-0
FC Twente - Roda JC  1-1
Fortuna S - FC VVV  0-1
PSV - Ajax  3-2

Just read this one in the evening paper:

The Police in Erfurt, Germany (former GDR) have found pamflets wich indicate
that the neo-nazi's of the area will have a go at the Ajax supporters when they
will visit Erfurt comming Wednesday, the pamflet says that altough Erfurt will
probably loose on the pitch, outside the ground they will win from the judes 
(SP?) from Amsterdam.

Only a couple of weeks ago the same thing happened in Groningen and the mayor
of Groningen cancelled the game on Saturday evening 'cause they arrested some
neo-nazi's who have enough explosive's (SP?) to make a powerfull handgrenate.

Where is this world/football going to?

T_

I just read an interview form a Dutch paper with the Madrid coach, in the
article he keep replying that he is taking Utrecht seriously but when the
reporter asks him what he thinks are the most dangerous Utrecht players he
replies Smolarek and Lindenaar. Well I'm sorry Mr. Madrid coach but Lindenaar
he only played two games this season and has been out for the rest due to a
shoulder injurie and tonight he will be between the crowd on the stands.
So much for serious thinking by the Madrid guys, I just hope we will have them
tonight.


T_

    This are the results from this weekend in the league in Holland
    
    MVV - RKC  1-1
    Feyenoord - FC Groningen  0-0
    Volendam - De Graafschap  2-1
    SVV/Dordrecht '90 - Fortuna S  2-1
    FC VVV - FC Twente  3-4
    Roda JC - Sparta  1-1
    Willem II - PSV  0-2
    FC Utrecht - Ajax  2-1 Goals by Roest and Lindenaar
    

Thuesday result

Fortuna S - FC Den Haag  0-1

Wednesday results

Ajax - Willem II  3-0
PSV - MVV  1-1 PSV scoring minutes into extra time
Vitesse - FC utrecht  1-0
Volendam - RKC  0-3


T_

this week results

RKC - Willem II  1-2
PSV - FC Groningen  2-1
MVV - De Graafschap  0-0
Feyenoord - FC Utrecht  0-0
Volendam - Fortuna S  0-1
Vitesse - FC Twente  4-1
SVV/Dordrecht '90 - Sparta  PP due to heavy rain fall
FC VVV - Ajax  0-4
Roda JC - FC Den Haag  5-0

last night results

3th round KNVB cup

Feyenoord - MVV  1-0

League

Ajax - Roda JC  2-0
PSV - FC Twente  3-3

PSv took an early 2-0 lead and were bound to finish the game with at least
6 goals difference, but than Twente found themselfs back and started scoring
three goals in a row, only seconds before the end PSV equilised (SP?) to
3-3, good game, lotsa action, two penalties (each team one) and some yellow 
cards.

T_

    Can anybody tell me the result of Feyenoord-Ajax and the Cup-matches
    played last weekend???
    
    Rob

  <<< Note 15.39 by BONNET::ZIJL "I think I can, I think I can,.....,I did" >>>
                              -< Feyenoord-Ajax >-

>>    Can anybody tell me the result of Feyenoord-Ajax and the Cup-matches
>>    played last weekend???
    
>>    Rob


Hold your horses mate here they are:

League

Feyenoord - Ajax  2-0


KNVB Cup 3th round

NAC - FC Utrecht  0-1
RKC - Telstar  2-4 after extra time
Volendam - TOP  1-1  TOP wins after penalties
SV Meerssen - Roda JC  0-2
FC Groningen - Cambuur Leeuwarden  3-2
Veendam - Vitesse  2-2  Vitesse wins after penalties
Heerenveen - PSV  0-2
Rheden - FC Twente  2-1
Eindhoven - Wageningen  2-2  Eindhoven wins after penalties
RBC - Helmond Sport  2-0
Haarlem - NEC  4-3
Emmen - Excelsior  1-0
FC VVV - FC Den Bosch  1-1  VVV wins after penalties

Feyenoord - MVV  1-0 was played last week

Games to be played:

Sparta - Willem  20 nov
Ajax - FC Den Haag  5 jan

next round will be played in the weekend of 4/5 januari

This is the draw

Ajax/FC Den Haag - PSV   BINGO!!!!
Telstar - Eindhoven
RBC - Feyenoord
FC Utrecht - Emmen
TOP - Haarlem
Roda JC - FC Groningen
Sparta/Willem II - Vitesse
Rheden - FC VVV

T_

    This is really a surprise for me. Feyenoord hasn't beaten Ajax in 
    "De Kuip" for years if I reall that right. Can you tell me if it 
    was a good match an who scored the goals??
    By the way, do you know something about Jan Wouters leaving Ajax???
    Why is he leaving and where to. I heared Arsenal and Bayern Munchen are
    interested.

  <<< Note 15.41 by BONNET::ZIJL "I think I can, I think I can,.....,I did" >>>
                          -< Feyenoord-Ajax surprise >-

>>    This is really a surprise for me. Feyenoord hasn't beaten Ajax in 
>>    "De Kuip" for years if I reall that right. Can you tell me if it 
>>    was a good match an who scored the goals??
>>    By the way, do you know something about Jan Wouters leaving Ajax???
>>   Why is he leaving and where to. I heared Arsenal and Bayern Munchen are
>>    interested.


The match was shown life on Dutch telly and it was nice to watch, it didn't bore
me for one second, the first goal was scored by Damascin (SP?), a new guy they 
bought, the second one was a beauty by Taument, he was without doubt the best
player on the pitch. Ajax defender Vink received two yellow cards and was send
off in the second half.

Yes, Jan Wouters is leaving Ajax and it will probably happen this week, Jan
is most interested in Bayern but Arsenal have offered one milion dutch guilders
more than the Germans and they are also willing to pay him more. The reason he
is leaving is the new Ajax coach Louis van Gaal, he has taken Wouters from his
center midfield position and placed him on the left, this van Gaal is also
messing with other players, John van Schip (multible Ducth International) hasn't
been playing for weeks due to arguments and 3 million buy John van Loen is
a reserve.

T_

three games were played last night, here are the results:

KNVB cup 3th round 

Sparta - Willem II  3-1


League

Ajax - SVV/Dordrecht '90  1-0
PSV - Volendam  1-1

T_

    Are there any "Eerste Divisie" matches played???
    
    A Dutchman in France who wants to keep up with the football
    in his country,
    
    Rob

  <<< Note 15.44 by BONNET::ZIJL "I think I can, I think I can,.....,I did" >>>
                            -< "Eerste Divisie"??? >-

>>    Are there any "Eerste Divisie" matches played???
    
>>    A Dutchman in France who wants to keep up with the football
>>    in his country,
    
>>    Rob

Rob,

yes there were 1st division games played also, if you would like to be
updated on that just say the word and i'll put them in as well. At the
moment Cambuur leads with Heerenveen and Wageningen trailing by 1 or 2
points, the first ten teams are very close together so I will be fun,
the level of footie played in the 1st is becomming better but is still
no match with the Premier, just look at the current table and you see
that newcommers De Graafschap and FC VVV are stiff at the bottem.

groet,

T_

    Yes please keep me updated on the "Eerste Divisie" if you like and
    if it is not to much trouble,
    
    Mazzel,
    
    Rob

  <<< Note 15.46 by BONNET::ZIJL "I think I can, I think I can,.....,I did" >>>
                                  -< Update >-

>>    Yes please keep me updated on the "Eerste Divisie" if you like and
>>    if it is not to much trouble,
    
>>    Mazzel,
    
>>    Rob

Rob,

Geen probleem vanaf as maandag zal ik ze enteren.

groet,

T_

PS Mr. Moderators please do not set this entry hidden, there are no dirty words
   in it and I just wanted to write a small entry in Dutch for one of my fellow
   country men!

    what does the first 'V' in 'VVV' stand for?
    bearing in mind i know that the other 2 stand for Voetbal
    Vernin-whatsisname, thanks to Ton making me a fluent speaker of dutch!
    Ian.
    

    I'm not sure about the order but I think VVV stands for:
    - Voetbal Vereniging Venlo (Venlo is the city)
    
    Voetbal Vereniging means Football Club
    
    Rob
    

             <<< Note 15.48 by COMICS::HAWLEY "death by stapler" >>>
                                    -< VVV >-

>>    what does the first 'V' in 'VVV' stand for?
>>    bearing in mind i know that the other 2 stand for Voetbal
>>    Vernin-whatsisname, thanks to Ton making me a fluent speaker of dutch!
>>    Ian.
  
Ian,

the first V stands for Venlo wich is also in the South of Holland, the
provence is called Limburg. The other two V's mean the same as in MVV,
so yes voetbal vereniging. These VV's are easy but we also got teams
with names like NEC and NAC, the first one commes from Nijmegen so that
could be be the N but the second one comes from Breda and there is no
B in NAC. Maybe one of the Dutch guys in France or the only NEC supporter
who sometimes is in here can tell us something about this.

T_  

  <<< Note 15.49 by BONNET::ZIJL "I think I can, I think I can,.....,I did" >>>
                                    -< VVV >-

>>    I'm not sure about the order but I think VVV stands for:
>>    - Voetbal Vereniging Venlo (Venlo is the city)
    
>>    Voetbal Vereniging means Football Club
    
>>    Rob
  
Rob,

the name of the city comes first so it is Venlose Voetbal Vereniging, just
like MVV (Maastrichtse) and SVV (Schiedamse)

T_  

    As an exception, take FC Utrecht. I expect FC stands for Football Club,
    Football Club being a Dutch word. I used to watch IJsselmeer Vogels
    (Spakenburg) when I lived nearby (Amersfoort, whose team got relegated
    / kicked out of the Dutch 2nd Div), but I don't know whether they were
    a VV or what, but they didn't play on a Sunday. On a Sunday, they
    dressed in black, kept quiet and looked miserable (until they got home
    and hit the Jenever bottle !)
    
    jb.

    <<< Note 15.52 by BAHTAT::BLYTHE "Ee bah gum th's trouble at t'mill" >>>
                                 -< FC = VV ? >-

>>    As an exception, take FC Utrecht. I expect FC stands for Football Club,
>>    Football Club being a Dutch word. I used to watch IJsselmeer Vogels
>>    (Spakenburg) when I lived nearby (Amersfoort, whose team got relegated
>>    / kicked out of the Dutch 2nd Div), but I don't know whether they were
>>    a VV or what, but they didn't play on a Sunday. On a Sunday, they
>>    dressed in black, kept quiet and looked miserable (until they got home
>>    and hit the Jenever bottle !)
    
>>    jb.

JB,

Must have been years ago that you lived in Holland 'cause the 2nd division
ended life in the sixties :-), about the words FC, yes today it stands for
Football Club but it original standed for Fusie Club, a Fusie Club was 
common knowlegde in the late sixties begin seventies in Holland 'cause there
were too many (semi)-profesional teams, so they stopped the second division
nad started to merge clubs, in the case of Utrecht they merged in 1970 out
of three teams, DOS, Velox and Elinkwijk, some thing happened to teams like
FC Groningen, FC Twente, Fortuna Sittard, Roda JC etc. The situation know
is a premier and a first division and that's it for profesional football,
under these two divisions you find the amateurs but mind you some of these
amateur teams pay much better than first and premier division teams and loads
of former profesional players still play there, on some occasions it possible
for a amateur club to go up to the first division, they not even have to 
become champions in their amateur-league, it's just a question of having a
suited ground and enough money.

T_

    It was probably Div 1, but it was the lower one ! I lived in Holland
    1979-1984.
    
    jb.

    <<< Note 15.54 by BAHTAT::BLYTHE "Ee bah gum th's trouble at t'mill" >>>
                                 -< Lower Div >-

>>    It was probably Div 1, but it was the lower one ! I lived in Holland
>>    1979-1984.
    
>>    jb.

JB,

you are right it was SC Amersfoort and they played 1st division, they played
so poor and so little people attended that they just stopped the whole club.

T_

    
    Aye-up....re a few back
    
    N.E.C. stands for Nijmegen Eendracht Combinatie, and literally
    means Nijmegen United.
    
    
    Tim (Leeds Leeds Leeds)

Here are the results of last weekend in the League in Holland

Premier division

FC Groningen - RKC  2-0
FC Den Haag - FC VVV  2-2
Sparta - Vitesse  1-1
FC Twente - Ajax  0-0
Willem II - Roda JC  0-2
Fortuna S - Feyenoord  0-1
FC Utrecht - MVV  3-2
De Graafschap - PSV  0-2

Table

Team          Played    Points

PSV           16        27
Feyenoord     17        26
Ajax          16        23
FC Twente     17        21
Vitesse       17        20
Sparta        16        19
Roda JC       17        19
FC Utrecht    16        18
FC Groningen  15        16
RKC           17        16
MVV           17        15
Volendam      16        14
SVV/Dordrecht 16        13
Willem II     16        11
FC Den Haag   15        10
Fortuna S     17        10
FC VVV        15         7
De Graafschap 16         7


First Division

RBC - NEC  2-1
TOP - Veendam  0-2
Eindhoven - Heerenveen  2-1
Go Ahead Eagles - Heracles  0-0
Telstar - FC Zwolle  4-0
Excelsior - Haarlem  5-2
Zeeland - AZ  0-3
Cambuur Leeuwarden - FC Den Bosch  3-3
Emmen - Wageningen  3-0
NAC - Helmond Sport  4-1

TAble

Team         Played   Points

Cambuur L    19       26
Telstar      19       24
Heerenveen   19       23
Wageningen   18       22
FC Den Bosch 19       22
Haarlem      19       22
NEC          19       21
RBC          19       21
GA Eagles    19       21
NAC          17       20
Heracles     19       20
AZ           19       19
Excelsior    19       18
Veendam      19       18
Eindhoven    18       16
FC Zwolle    19       16
Emmen        19       16
TOP          18       11
Helmond Sport18       11
Zeeland      19        7

Topscorers:

Premier

Bergkamp (Ajax)  15
Mulder (FC Twente) 11
Decheiver (RKC) 11
Kalusha (PSV) 8
Kieft (PSV) 8
de Boer (FC Twente) 7
Loeffen (Vitesse) 7
Clayton (Volendam) 7
Boogers (Fortuna S) 7
Smolarek (FC Utrecht) 7


1st division

Tammer (excelsior)  23
van Roon (AZ) 15
Velten (Heracles) 14
Hoop (Telstar) 13
De Roode (Telstar) 13


T_

one result from last night:

FC Den Haag - Willem II  0-2


T_

    Thanks Ton,
    
    Rob

yesterdays and todays results in the Dutch League (First Div tommorow)

De Graafschap - FC VVV  1-0
Volendam - FC Den Haag  0-0
FC Groningen - FC Utrecht  2-0 :-(

T_

    Do you have the results of the "Eerste Divisie" Ton???
    
    Thanks,
    
    Rob
    
    Ps: any news about the coming match against Greece???

  <<< Note 15.61 by BONNET::ZIJL "I think I can, I think I can,.....,I did" >>>
                             -< Eerste Divisie??? >-

>>    Do you have the results of the "Eerste Divisie" Ton???
    
>>    Thanks,
    
>>    Rob
    
>>    Ps: any news about the coming match against Greece???


I'll post the results later, about the match against Greece, there isn't
that much news, all players are fit and Rinus Michiels told the press
yesterday that he is going for a win, if we should loose he said we are
not representable for Sweden '92. Peter Bosz from feyenoord is the only
new commer in the squad.

T_

    	Last Sunday's result should really read:
    
    	F.C. Groningen 2 - Jan Willem van Ede 0 !
    
    van Ede appeared to be the only Utrecht player who was "switched on"
    If it wasn't for him Utrecht would have been slaughtered.
    
    Tim

  <<< Note 15.61 by BONNET::ZIJL "I think I can, I think I can,.....,I did" >>>
                             -< Eerste Divisie??? >-

>>    Do you have the results of the "Eerste Divisie" Ton???
    
>>    Thanks,
    
>>    Rob
    
>>    Ps: any news about the coming match against Greece???

Rob,

sorry for the late reply but here are the results from the 1st division

NEC - NAC  3-1
Wageningen - RBC  0-1
FC Den Bosch - Emmen  1-1
AZ - Cambuur  4-1
Haarlem - Zeeland  3-2
FC Zwolle - Excelsior  2-0
Heracles - Telstar  1-1
Heerenveen - Go Ahead Eagles  5-2
Veendam - Eindhoven  0-0
Helmond Sport - TOP  2-2

    
    Rumour has is it in Holland that Bobby Robson will leave PSV at the
    end of this season to join Fulham, it's been in several Dutcj papers
    who quoted Jimmy Hill on this.
    
    T_

That's strange as the English paper I saw that in on Monday said that there 
was no chance of him going to Fulham as he can't stand Jimmy Hill (you've got 
to admit he's got taste!).

Are PSV likely to get rid of Robson anyway? The story here was that he was 
told he had to win the European Cup, and he's now failed there twice. Is he 
under threat?

grahame

Grahame,

I think Bobby is on his way out and will probably leave PSV at the end of
this season, his contract is over so it won't be a real problem. I think he
is to blamed for the bad results at PSV 'cause it's common knowlegde that
most Dutch players can't handle responsibility and need a coach who does that
for them, Bobby still thinks the players can do it theirselfs and that wrong.
I think this attitude problem will cost him in the end.

T_

    reply 15.67
    
    You're right Ton, Bobby is to nice, he's to soft for the players. They
    should get someone who has a lot more authority.
    
    Rob

Well, that'd be a shame. Still, he's been in the game long enough to know by 
now that footballers can't think! (Why do they continue to interview them on 
television - when was the last time any one of them said anything 
intelligent?!!)

Good luck to Bobby - he deserves better.

g

    reply 15.69
    
    It's not a question of deserving. We al know that Bobby is a good guy
    and he has a good record. But a good trainer in one team is not per 
    definition a good trainer in another team.
    
    Rob

here we go again

Premier

De Graafschap - RKC  2-2
FC Utrecht - PSV  1-1
Fortuna S - MVV stopped after 45 minutes due to heavy fog
FC Twente - Feyenoord  1-2
Sparta - Volendam  2-1
Ajax - Vitesse  0-2
FC Den Haag - SVV/Dordrecht '90  0-1
Roda JC - FC VVV  3-2


First

NAC - RBC  2-3
Cambuur - Wageningen  2-0
Emmen - NEC  1-3
Excelsior - AZ  0-5
GA Eagles - FC Zwolle  3-1
Eindhoven - Heracles  3-1
TOP - Heerenveen  2-6
Helmond Sport - Veendam  1-1
Zeeland - FC Den Bosch  3-2
Telstar - Haarlem  3-0


News

Last week former ADo, FC Den Haag, Feyenoord, FC Utrecht and six times
international Aad Mansveld died at the age of 47. He suffered an uncureable
disease. 


Saturday night a 21 year old guy from Enschede was killed, when he was 
approched by a group of Feyenoord supporters in the city of Enschede (Feyenoord
played against FC Twente yesterday). The police arrested 7 people, 5 male
two female, one of them already confesed that he kniffed the guy down, among
the arrested group was FC twente player and Rotterdammer by birth Robin Schmidt
he was released Sunday evening because he had played a minor roll in  what
happened.

T_

    What an astonishing results Ton. Congratulations by the way for Utrecht
    for keeping PSV at a draw. Seems by the way that Feyenoord can
    seriously think about title chances. Who would have thought that at the
    beginning of the season. And Ajax-Vitesse surprised me totally. Did
    they have an off-day or were they saving themselves for the match
    against Ossasuna?
    
    Thanks for the results,
    
    Rob

  <<< Note 15.72 by BONNET::ZIJL "I think I can, I think I can,.....,I did" >>>

>>    What an astonishing results Ton. Congratulations by the way for Utrecht
>>    for keeping PSV at a draw. Seems by the way that Feyenoord can
>>    seriously think about title chances. Who would have thought that at the
>>    beginning of the season. And Ajax-Vitesse surprised me totally. Did
>>    they have an off-day or were they saving themselves for the match
>>    against Ossasuna?
    
>>    Thanks for the results,
    
>>    Rob

Rob,

Both PSV and Ajax play crap and are not worthy being nr 1 and 3 in the
Premier League, Feyenoord are currently playing the same game Utrecht
did last season, a strong defence and team building from the defence.
Utrecht - PSV was ok for the first half, it was scary to see Utrecht
score within the first 15 minutes but 9 minutes later a big mistake in
the Utrecht defence gave PSV a goal. Utrecht played with three subs, so
did PSV but they are no more a European top team, at the beginning of
the second half Robson substituded an attacker for a defender and with
15 minutes to the only thing they did was playing the ball back to their
goal-keeper.

T_

just for the record Utrecht haven't lost at home the last 26 games in the
League, the only loss was in de ECIII against Real Madrid.


T_

    Ref: last
    
    Now he tell us.....Where were you before I picked PSV?
    
    JC

   <<< Note 15.75 by QETOO::CHAVES "Pool: only 8 pts from relegation zone" >>>

>>    Ref: last
    
>>    Now he tell us.....Where were you before I picked PSV?
    
>>    JC

JC,

notes 110.95 & 97 could have give you a clue, and let's face it if you
followed the Dutch League for the time I've been notting here then you
would have known :-)

T_

Here are the results of this weekend in Holland


Premier Div

SVV/Dordrecht'90 - Roda JC  2-0
Vitesse - FC Den Haag  2-0
Volendam - Ajax  1-4
Feyenoord - Sparta  2-0
MVV - FC Twente  0-3
PSV - Fortuna S  1-0
RKC - FC Utrecht  1-1
FC VVV - Willem II  1-2

1st Div

Heerenveen - Helmond Sport  4-0
Heracles - TOP  2-1
FC Zwolle - Eindhoven  0-0
Haarlem - GA Eagles  3-0
AZ - Telstar  1-1
Wageningen - Zeeland  5-0
NEC - Cambuur  1-1
RBC - Emmen  2-2
Veendam - NAC  0-0
BVV Den Bosch - Excelsior  2-0

    Somebody know who Ajax drew in the next round of the UEFA Cup?
    
    Rob

    
    
    Gent is a Belgian team.
    
    They are 5th in the Belgian championship.
    They played in the previous matches against 
    
    	    	- Lausanne 
    		- Eintracht Frankfurt
		- Dinamo Moscow
    
    
    Philippe
    
                                   

    
    I didn't find any topic to put this in, so i chose the Dutch topic
    because we are coming to visit you soon. The quarter-finals for
    Barcelona 1992 were drawn yesteday. Here are the matches.
    
    Holland	    -   Sweden
    Germany 	    -   Scotland
    Denmark	    -   Poland
    Czechoslovakia  -   Italy
    
    It's a two legged affair, the winners qualify for the Olympics in
    Barcelona. Is's also a under-21 Euro copetition, and the winner of
    Holland/Sweden meets the winner of Germany/Scotland in the semi.
    
    The first leg is in Utrecht on the 11 march 1992, the second leg in Sweden
    two weeks later. Perhaps a beer before the match, Ton? I have always
    wondered how the Grolch (sp?) tastes.
    
    Mats

      Mats,

>>  Germany 	    -   Scotland
                        ^^^^^^^^
    
    Is this really so? Scotland do not compete in the Olympics (except as
    part of the UK); I understood that where one of the home countries won
    their group, the 2nd placed team would qualify.
    
    Rob

    
    That's what my morning paper said. It have been wrong before, and i
    have promised my self that one more error and i cancel my subscription. 
    Perhaps now is the time.
    
    It's only 16 countries that qualify for the Olympics. I agree that it's
    strange if Europe only got 4 slots. Perhaps the losers of those
    two-legged affairs get's another chance against some non-European
    countries.
    
    Mats

    Merry Christmas and a Happy, productive football conference year,
    
    
    Bye,
    
    Rob

I would like to wish everybody in the Football notes-file a very good 1992.

T_

Here are the results of this weekend in the League and KNVB-cup in Holland

First Division

Top - NAC  0-0

3th round KNVB-cup

Ajax - FC Den Haag  3-1

4th round KNVB cup

Telstar - Eindhoven  2-2  Telstar wins after penalties
RBC - Feyenoord  1-2
Rheden - FC VVV  1-1  VVV wins after penalties
FC Utrecht - Emmen  3-0
Sparta - Vitesse  PP

T_

    Have you got the results of the dutch leagues Ton???
    
    Thanks,
    
    Rob

    have got a spare minute so here goes.....
    
    Results this weekend:
    Premier Division
    FEYENOORD - DEN HAAG 3-0
    RKC - TWENTE 4-1
    GRONINGEN - FORTUNA SITTARD 2-1
    GRAAFSCHAP - F.C. UTRECHT 0-0
    SVV/DORDT - WILLEM II 0-3
    PSV - SPARTA 4-1
    VITESSE - VVV 6-1
    VOLENDAM - RODA J.C.
    
    PSV lead the table with 34 pts from 20 games followed by Feyenoord
    on 32 pts, Ajax are third. F.C. Utrecht are eighth with 21 pts from 20
    games.
    
    First Division
    
    HERACLES - VEENDAM 2-0
    HAARLEM - TOP 1-0
    AZ ALKMAAR - EINDHOVEN 0-2
    DEN BOSCH - GO AHEAD EAGLES 0-2
    NEC NIJMEGEN - EXCELSIOR 3-0
    
    Cambuur lead the table on 30 pts from 23 games, followed by Heerenveen
    with 29 pts from 22 games, Telstar with 28 points from 22 games, and
    fourth is NEC Nijmegen with 28 pts from 23 games.
    
    
    Tim 

the missing results are:

MVV - Ajax  1-4
Volendam - Roda JC  3-2


The draw for the quarter-finals of the KNVB-cup was done this weekend when
I wass in Birmingham, I just got two of the fixtures:

Feyenoord - winner of AJAX/PSV (4th round draw)

Roda JC - FC Utrecht


T_

Two pieces of news:

Johan Cruyff and the KNVB have agreed on that Cruyff will lead the Dutch
National team in the WC '94, so not the qualifying matches only the games
in the States.


FC Utrecht have made a bid for Aberdeen striker Willem van de Ark, they hope
to close the deal today.

T_

    Why does Utrecht want to buy van der Ark??? I think he won't be as 
    cheap as a buyer in the dutch league I think, and he is a limited
    player??? Does Utrecht want a striker that bad???
    
    Rob

                       <<< Note 15.91 by BONNET::LORD >>>
                              -< Van der Ark??? >-

>>    Why does Utrecht want to buy van der Ark??? I think he won't be as 
>>    cheap as a buyer in the dutch league I think, and he is a limited
>>    player??? Does Utrecht want a striker that bad???
    
>>    Rob

Rob,

if you can name me one good striker in Holland who also is payable I'll
ask the queen to give you a medal! Utrecht tryed to get John van Loen on
a loan from Ajax but they won't release him at the moment. Utrecht desperate
need a man up front who is strong in the air, Smolarek is already 34 and he
can't do it on his own. Utrecht have in Jerry Cooke a real left winger with
a supurb cross but there is nobody who knocks them in, just look at our
goal-record, 21 against in 21 matches isn't that bad but 21 for it poor.

T_

    Ton,
       if you're dishing medals out here's a few tips of available strikers
    in Holland...
    
    Eric Tammer - Excelsior (24 goals this season)
    Remco Boere 
    van de Laan - Den Haag
    John Clayton 
    de Jong  - Fortuna Sittard
    Piet Kuur
    Peter Houtman
    
    There's just a few of the top of my head, if Utrecht shake the money
    bags, that's if there's anything in them, then I'm sure that they should
    get one of the above.
    
    If Utrecht ask NEC nicely then we'll lend 'em Henk Grim :-) :-)!!
    
    Tim
    

        <<< Note 15.93 by JGODCL::SHERLOCK "The Yorkshire Republican" >>>
                            -< Well, here's a few >-

>>    Ton,
>>       if you're dishing medals out here's a few tips of available strikers
>>    in Holland...
    
>>    Eric Tammer - Excelsior (24 goals this season)
       
      Eric started his carreer at Utrecht but was send away before making it
      to the first team. He is not for sale, his contract is still running so
      Excelsior will ask big bucks for him and we don't have big bucks, and
      let not forget that the gap between Premier division and first division
      in Holland is huge, so it would be a risk at a very high price.

  
>>    Remco Boere 
   
      How many clubs did he have??? did he ever succeeded???


>>   van de Laan - Den Haag
    
     Same thing as with Tammer and Den Haag are struggeling against relegation
     so why should they let him go. btw how may goals did he score??!!!


>>   John Clayton 
    
     We had our share of English strikers, Floyd Streete and John Moore.


>>   de Jong  - Fortuna Sittard
    
     Can't recall that I know him.    


>>  Piet Kuur

    Failed at Feyenoord and is currently in the First division at Haarlem.
    He just isn't Premier Division material.
    

>>  Peter Houtman
    
    Peter was a very good striker but he is over the hill, on the bench
    at Sparta and currently at Den Haag but has he scored yet???

>>    There's just a few of the top of my head, if Utrecht shake the money
>>    bags, that's if there's anything in them, then I'm sure that they should
>>    get one of the above.
    
>>    If Utrecht ask NEC nicely then we'll lend 'em Henk Grim :-) :-)!!
    
>>    Tim
  
As I already stated the money bag is quite empty, Aberdeen is willing to let
go van de Ark for a nice price and van de Ark has agreed on getting less money
at Utrecht then he got at Aberdeen.

T_

Who the F*ck is Henk Grim :-) :-)  

    How high was the bid for Van der Ark by the way Ton???
    
    Rob

    Rob,
       on teletext it said that UTREG paid Dfl. 500,000
    
    Tim

        <<< Note 15.96 by JGODCL::SHERLOCK "The Yorkshire Republican" >>>
                              -< half a million >-

>>    Rob,
>>       on teletext it said that UTREG paid Dfl. 500,000
    
>>    Tim

And he signed up for two and a half years, his first match will be at home
against Fortuna S.

T_

PS Tim, you Dutch is really improving (UTREG :-)

T_

    Let's just hope that he will do better than at Aberdeen, because
    they were not very pleased with him overthere (lack off skills they
    said).
    
    Rob

    Sorry to put his here but I don't know a speedskating conference.
    Does anybody know who became European Champion in Heerenveen. Did
    Zandstra maintain his leed or did Koss overtake him on the 10KM.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Rob

    Rob,
       EC speed-skating (men) results:
    
    1. ZANDSTRA (NED)
    2. KOSS     (NOR)
    3. RITSMA   (NED)
    4. KARLSTAD (NOR)
    5. VELDKAMP (NED)
    6. BOS      (NED)
    
    Tim

Here are the results from this weekend in the League in Holland

FC Twente - FC groningen  4-1
Sparta - RKC  2-3
Ajax - PSV  1-0
FC Den Haag - MVV  1-2
Roda JC - Feyenoord  0-0
FC VVV - Volendam  0-1
SVV/Dordrecht - Vitesse  0-1
Willem II - FC Utrecht  0-1
Fortuna S - De Graafschap  3-1

T_

    Well this opens the Dutch competition again. A win from PSV would have
    made it very hard for Ajax to go for the title. Now they still stand a
    chance. And Feyenoord has come closer 1 point to. How was the Ajax-PSV
    game??? (who scored). By the way, did Van der Ark already play for
    Utrecht???
    
    Rob

    
    I watched eurogoals on Eurosport the other night, and they showed some
    highlights of the game. Stefan Petterson scored the only goal on a
    penalty in the first half (i think). It seemed to be a very close game,
    the PSV Brazilian missed a good chance of equalizing.
    
    Mats

Here are the results of this weekend in the League in Holland

Premier Div

Feyenoord - FC VVV  5-1
MVV - Roda JC  0-2
PSV - FC Den Haag  2-1
RKC - Ajax  2-2
De Graafschap - FC Twente  0-0
FC Utrecht - Fortuna S  1-1
Vitesse - Willem II  3-1
Volendam - SVV/Dort '90  P-P
FC Groningen - Sparta  P-P

First Div

Zwolle - Heerenveen  1-3
Haarlem - Veendam  1-2
AZ - Helmond Sport 1-2
BVV Den Bosch - TOP  1-0
Wageningen - Eindhoven  0-0
Emmen - Excelsior  1-1
Heracles - NAC  0-3
NEC - GA Eagles  games stopped due to fog
RBC - Telstar  P-P
Cambuur - Zeeland  P-P

Yesterday afternoon the PSV board and Bobby Robson told the world that
Robson won't stay when his contract is finished at the end of this season.

T_

    How's Van der Ark doing at Utrecht???
    
    Rob

 <<< Note 15.105 by BONNET::ZIJL "The one who always loses his SODEXHO card" >>>
                       -< Hoe gaat het met die lange??? >-

>>    How's Van der Ark doing at Utrecht???
    
>>    Rob

Rob,

the match on Sunday was supurb crap so he didn't got a real change of
proving himself, he worked hard and showed a few nice things and what's
also important is that he makes playing for Wlodie Smolarek a lot better.

T_

Here are the results off this weekend in the League in Holland:

Premier

Ajax - FC Groningen  0-0
FC Den Haag - RKC  0-0 but seven Den Haag players received a yellow card
SVV/Dordrecht - Feyenoord  0-1
Vitesse - Volendam  0-0
FC Twente - FC Utrecht  P-P
Sparta - De Graafschap  1-1
Willem II - Fortuna S  5-0
FC VVV - MVV  P-P
Roda JC - PSV  0-0

PSV & Feyenoord lead the Premier Div with 37 points, PSV has played one game
less trhen Feyenoord


First

GA Eagles - RBC  P-P
Eindhoven - NEC  3-0
TOP - Wageningen  1-1
Veendam - AZ  2-1
Heerenveen - Haarlem  6-0  3 goals by former enfant terrible Mario Been
Heracles - FC Zwolle  5-0
NAC - VCV Zeeland  4-1
Telstar - Emmen  0-0
Excelsior - Cambuur  2-2


T_

    
    Can somebody please post up the complete table for the Premier
    division?
    
    Dank u !
    
    Erik.

          <<< Note 15.108 by 52431::TEBAERTS_E "Eric the Half-bee" >>>
                                -< ere-divisie >-

    
>>    Can somebody please post up the complete table for the Premier
>>    division?
    
>>    Dank u !
    
>>    Erik.


I'll try to do it asap.

T_

Premier Div Table


Team              Played    Points

PSV                23        37
Feyenoord          24        37
Ajax               23        33
Vitesse            23        31
FC Twente          23        26
FC Groningen       21        25
Roda JC            23        25
RKC                23        24
FC Utrecht         23        24
Sparta             22        22
Willem II          23        21
Volendam           23        20
MVV                22        19
SVV/Dordt '90      21        17
FC Den Haag        24        14
Fortuna S          22        13
De Graafschap      24        13
FC VVV             21         7

Yesterday PSV announced their new coach for next season, his name:

Hans Westerhof

He is the current FC Groningen coach and signed a contract for 2 years.

FC Groningen now hope to sign  Wageningen coach (former Feyenoord) Pim Verbeek.

Feyenoord coach (former PSV) Hans Dorjee has asked the board to release him
of his 2 year contract at the end of this season, the board agreed and they
are looking for a new coach as well, they are now talking to the assistent
coach of the national squad Dick Advocaat.

will be contined


T_

    	Re: Bobby Robson's departure...
    
    It makes you wonder what kind of club PSV are when they let a manager
    go who in the (nearly) two seasons that he's been there, made them
    league champions last season, and it looks like they'll manage the
    championship again this season, which is not a bad record considering
    the mediochre players he had to do the job with ! Robson was never
    given the authority/responsibility of buying or selling players, that
    responsibility was left to PSV's General Manager. Disciplinary matters
    were also in the hands of the General Manager. Romario seems to have
    the freedom to commute between Holland and Brazil to recover everytime
    he twists his ankle ;-) very strange goings on indeed.
    
    Tim
    who_thinks_that_PSV_are_nothing_but_a_boring_provincial_club_with_a
    bunch_of_second-rate_players. 

       <<< Note 15.112 by JGODCL::SHERLOCK "The Yorkshire Republican" >>>
                                    -< PSV >-

>>    	Re: Bobby Robson's departure...
    
>>    It makes you wonder what kind of club PSV are when they let a manager
>>    go who in the (nearly) two seasons that he's been there, made them
>>    league champions last season, and it looks like they'll manage the
>>    championship again this season, which is not a bad record considering
>>    the mediochre players he had to do the job with ! Robson was never
>>    given the authority/responsibility of buying or selling players, that
>>    responsibility was left to PSV's General Manager. Disciplinary matters
>>    were also in the hands of the General Manager. Romario seems to have
>>    the freedom to commute between Holland and Brazil to recover everytime
>>    he twists his ankle ;-) very strange goings on indeed.
    
>>    Tim
>>    who_thinks_that_PSV_are_nothing_but_a_boring_provincial_club_with_a
>>    bunch_of_second-rate_players. 

Tim,

this situation is normal for a Dutch team, the coach can tell the board or
the manager that he needs/wants a player but they will decide if that
player will be bought or not. Robson wasn't manager at PSV but "just"
coach/trainer.

T_

PS I_think_you_are_completely_right_about_that_remark_at_the_bottom.

    	
    	I don't envy Bobby Robson's succesor Hans Westerhof, the PSV
    squad is ageing, Van Breukelen, Van Aerle, Heintze, Vanenburg, and
    even Kieft are all heading towards the end of their top-class careers. 
        Westerhof will have to face up to the task of phasing out these
    older players and bringing in new talent (if available) and at the
    same time keep up the performance the Eindhoven crowd expect, they
    rate amongst the worst (spoilt) crowd in Holland by "booing" their
    team off the field even after a draw.
        I also suspect that there is a more than average case of "Player
    Power" at PSV so he's going to be in for a rough time. PSV choose
    their trainers carefully...they've never had an "outspoken" trainer
    there, the PSV board for obvious reasons like "Yes Men" and it did
    not surprise me that someone like Westerhof got the job. 
        At least it's going to be fun watching them lose next season !
    
    eh Ton ?
    
    

    Hi there this is Rob again. Since there is no speedskating conference
    and French television doens't broadcast speedskating I would like to
    ask you how the womens 3.000 m went yesterday... How did f.e. Yvonne
    van Gennip do?????????????
    
    Rob
    
    P.S. Since this is the football conference, how was 
    Ajax-PSV?????????????

I haven't got all the results yet but here's what I know:

4th round KNVB cup

Ajax - PSV  2-1
Sparta - Vitesse  2-2  Sparta wins after penalties

Ajax will now meet Feyenoord for the quarter finals in the Kuip in Rotterdam


League:

Volendam - FC Utrecht  4-2

Willem van de Ark scored his first goal for Utrecht and it was a beauty.

T_

re: .115

I saw speedskating yesterday on FR3 (French national television) ....

Thierry

re PSV

I thought it was interestig that Bobby Robson didn't think it wass necessary to
learn Dutch when he fisrt took the PSV job. OK, he had a Dutch assistant, and 
lots of people in Holland speak English, but....  I don't know if he changed his 
mind later on, but it would seem very difficult to have a good sense of what's
going on with the club without speaking the primary language. It also would be 
difficult to do TV interviews, deal with the press, etc.

I always wondered how effective it is for teams to hire a big name foreign coach
who probably doesn't have a lot of knowledge of the league, certain teams styles
and tendencies and the lesser known (not internationals) players.

Tom 

I think you're being a bit hard on him, Tom. Robson DID learn Dutch to a 
certain level, though as English is so widely understood there maybe there 
wasn't the incentive there would have been in another country. Additionally, 
would that have helped him control Romario any better?!

He's also followed Dutch football for years, as shown by his buying Muhren and 
(Damn! The other one!) over to play for Ipswich when he was in charge there.

He's just anothert manager in the merry-go-round of the top European clubs 
these days c.f. Marseille, Real Madrid, Inter etc.

grahame

Thanks for clarifying, Graeme. I read about a year ago that he hadn't learned 
Dutch, but he must have decided that he could only help himself if he did. Yes,
Romaro was the prolem, from everything I've heard. Seems he can be brilliant 
when he wants to. I think it ws "World Soccer" that implied that the assistant
manager was the one who was REALLY in charge, but I'm not sure how true that 
report is. The assistant, whose name I forgot, left PSV and took over another
Dutch club.

The point I was making about foreign managers is that it might be hard to know
the league well, especially the lower divisions, where future players might come
from. Robson, no doubt, knows all the top internationals from his days as 
England manager, but it might seem that a native would know the local leagues
a little better.

Tom

    Anyone know what Holland did against Portugal?????
    
    Thanks,
    
    Rob

    
                Portugal 2        Holland  0
                Oceano (3)
                Cesar Brito (80)
    A very sad display by Holland, albeit missing the Milan trio.Portugal
    could have had a couple more thanks to a really SLOW Dutch defense.
    First goal from a corner, bad marking. Second was a scorcher, Cesar
    Brito on the break, ending with an unstoppable shot with the goalie
    rooted to the spot. Holland  had only one chance when Winter shot
    way over the bar from 6 yards. Good Portugese display, lots of skill
    and imagination. 
    
    Tony

    
    
    Anyone know which skaters will be in the first group this afternoon on
    the 5000 meter, the top (dutch, norwegians) or the others???
    
    Thanks 
    
    Rob

	re .120

> (Damn! The other one!) over to play for Ipswich when he was in charge there.

	Thijssen (sp?) ?

	Tony

Frans Thijssen - I think so. Thanks, Tony,

g

 <<< Note 15.124 by BONNET::ZIJL "The one who always loses his SODEXHO card" >>>
                     -< skaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaating >-

    
    
>>    Anyone know which skaters will be in the first group this afternoon on
>>    the 5000 meter, the top (dutch, norwegians) or the others???
    
>>    Thanks 
    
>>    Rob


Just for you Rob the results of the 5000 meters men:


1. Karllstadt
2. Zandstra
3. Visser
4. a german guy
5. Veltkamp


T_

    Hi, this is Rob again,
    
    Thanks for the update on the skating Ton. I would just like to say
    goodbeye before I leave. I did a training for 6  months at Digital
    Valbonne and now will be doing a training at TESA in Spain. 
    
    I would like to thank all the guys for their replies on my questions
    (especially Ton for the Dutch League). It was nice to be a member of
    the football notes conference. 
    
    On my account there will be a new student called Bart Hollestelle. He
    is also a super football maniac, so I suppose you will here more of
    him.
    
    Bye bye guys,
    
    Rob

    
    	Adios, Rob..it was nice to have you on board. Good luck and
    	Best Wishes.
    
    	Andy.

Rob,

ouwe rukker veel succes in Spanje en als het even kan laat nog eens iets
van je horen.


T_

    
    see ya Rob, good luck.
    
    Ian.
    

    Hello everybody, I am Bart and will be doing training in Valbonne
    until the end of June of this year.
    Due to the fact that I am a real Zeeuw, pls keep me informed about
    this marvelous team named VC Zeeland.
    Rob already introduced me as being a football maniac and in a way
    he is right. Especially Dutch and Spanish Football. ( I am a huge fan
    of Real Zaragoza due to I lived there during the last seven months)
    Well, this is about it, I guess we will speak eachother more often
    during the next 5 months.
    
    bye
    
    Bart
    
    

Here are the results of this weekend in the league in Holland

Premier

Feyenoord - Vitesse  5-0
RKC - Roda JC  0-1
FC Groningen - FC Den Haag  3-1
De Graafschap - LUCKY Ajax  0-1
FC Utrecht - Sparta  1-1
Volendam - Willem II  0-0
MVV - SVV/Dordrecht '90  3-1
PSV - FC VVV  4-0
Fortuna S - FC Twente  3-1

1st

Haarlem - Heracles  1-1
AZ - Heerenveen  0-0
BVV Den Bosch - Veendam  0-2
Wageningen - Helmond Sport  0-2
NEC - TOP  4-1
RBC - Eindhoven  1-1
Emmen - GA Eagles  1-2
Cambuur L - Telstar  2-0
Zeeland - Excelsior  1-0
Zwolle - NAC  1-3


T_

    Any skating news from Albertville Ton???
    
    (also friday, saturday and sunday because we couldn't buy a newspaper)
    
    Bart
    

                     <<< Note 15.134 by BONNET::RICHARD >>>
                                -< skating??? >-

>>    Any skating news from Albertville Ton???
    
>>    (also friday, saturday and sunday because we couldn't buy a newspaper)
   
>>    Bart
  

The Norwegians did us in again :-(

1500 meters

1. Koss - Norway  1.54.81
2. Sundral - Norway 1.54.85
3. Visser - Holland 1.54.90
4. Ritsma - Holland
5. Veldkamp - Holland
7. Zandstra - Holland

T_
  

    Does anybody know something about the draw for the 10000 meters for men
    or anything else about speedskating in Albertville.
    We seem to be completely isolated from any skatingnews here in France.
    The only thing they show is skiing.
    
    thanks
    
    Bart

    
    Veldkamp winning
    
    14:12.12
    
    Koss second
    
    A few still to go, but it looks settled

    
    You might find more info on speed skating etc in IOSG::EURO_SKIING.

                      <<< Note 15.138 by PEKING::JOLLYL >>>

    
>>    You might find more info on speed skating etc in IOSG::EURO_SKIING.

Lawrence me lad you are scaring the hell outta me appering here in the
Dutch league entry :-) given the guys pointers to the skaiting. I think I'll
go there and have a look for me self.

Your mate and fellow CFC Supporter

T_

PS I may may maybe come over for the FA cup match against the Hammers or
   Sunderland, I'll let you know in time.

T_

                      <<< Note 15.138 by PEKING::JOLLYL >>>

    
>>    You might find more info on speed skating etc in IOSG::EURO_SKIING.


Loz,

I couldn't find any info in that notes-file

T_

    Nor could I.
    
    Bart
    

                     <<< Note 15.141 by BONNET::RICHARD >>>
                                -< me neither >-

>>    Nor could I.
    
>>    Bart
  

A well Lzzie has always been a funny type a guy, but it doesn't matter
cause we've got a gold medeal on the tien kilometer, Bart Veldkamp 14.12.12


T_  

    
    Re. last few.
    
    Sorry chaps, just a pointer.  What about the Short sprint, Wilf wimping
    out in the semi's what a tart.
    
    Back to football Ton I hope you can make it for the cup game.  I'll
    meet you for a beer or three.  I probably won't be able to watch the
    game with you though because my old man (West ham scum that he is:-))
    has a friend that owns an executive box at the Bridge and maybe able to 
    get me in there for the game.  Should be an experience, watching the
    game after a 3 course meal, sipping champers, watching instant replay's
    of goals on the box that I normally miss 'cause some geezer has jumped
    in front of me at the crucial moment.  Mind you watching football from
    a fish tank has it's draw backs, despite staying warm and dry the
    atmosphere will be rather muffled and I don't think they'll appreciate
    me voicing my support in the usual manor.  Still at least if it's West
    Ham we get I should miss out on the fun and games we usually get like,
    
    The hundred meter dash down Kings road.
    
    or the old favourite,
    
    Guess which team I support.  Usually played in pubs and tubes just
    before an "off".
    
    See you next month you old sod,
    
    Loz. 

here are the results of this weekend in the league in Holland

premier

FC VVV - RKC  0-0
SVV/Dordt - PSV  1-2
Vitesse - MVV  1-2
Volendam - Feyenoord  0-1
Willem II - FC twente  3-1
Sparta - Fortuna S  3-2
Ajax - FC Utrecht  1-0
FC Den Haag - De Graafschap  4-0


1st

TOP - RBC  1-1
Helmond Sport - NEC  0-3
Veendam - Wageningen  1-1
Heerenveen - BVV Den Bosch  1-2
Heracles - AZ  0-0
Zwolle - Haarlem  1-5
NAC - Excelsior  2-0
Telstar - VCV Zeeland  4-2
GA Eagles - Cambuur  0-1
Eindhoven - Emmen  0-1

T_

    Hey Tom,
    
    I read yesterday in the newspaper that Utrecht needs a big fresh up.
    What is going on in the center of Holland? Are they really that bad
    lately?
    
    Bart
    

                   <<< Note 15.145 by BONNET::HOLLESTELLE >>>
                              -< utr(sl)echt ?? >-

>>    Hey Tom,
    
>>    I read yesterday in the newspaper that Utrecht needs a big fresh up.
>>    What is going on in the center of Holland? Are they really that bad
>>    lately?
    
>>    Bart
  

Bart,

It's Ton not Tom!

Yep it's going quite poor at the moment, Utrecht has changed the way they
play from defense to more attacking and some players just can't cope with 
that.  



T_

    
    Tom :-}
    
    so what's occuring?  Are you coming over for the Sunderland game or
    what?  As West Ham have taken a tumble, I doubt if I will be hob
    knobing it with the rich and famous now so I will lower my standards
    and watch the game with you.  If not I can tape the game for you and
    get you a programe,
    
    Loz.

                      <<< Note 15.148 by PEKING::JOLLYL >>>

    
>>    Tom :-}
    
>>    so what's occuring?  Are you coming over for the Sunderland game or
>>    what?  As West Ham have taken a tumble, I doubt if I will be hob
>>    knobing it with the rich and famous now so I will lower my standards
>>    and watch the game with you.  If not I can tape the game for you and
>>    get you a programe,
    
>>    Loz.

Laurens,

I don't think I will be over now that Sunderland is our opponent, I think
I'll just wait until we've reach the final. A program would be very nice,
a tape also but don't do it on my account if the match will be life on
BBC 'cause we can receive that in Holland and I can tape it myself (the
Everton match is already on file). I still got a tape you send me months
ago, it was one of our glorious wins over Mancs, I'll send it back to you
one of these days :-) (If I don't forget :-))


T_

.149> I don't think I will be over now that Sunderland is our opponent, I think

	Don't like to see them get beat?

     <<< Note 15.150 by FUTURS::DAGLESS "There's, a circus in the town" >>>


.149> I don't think I will be over now that Sunderland is our opponent, I think

>>	Don't like to see them get beat?



Who?

T_

     <<< Note 15.151 by YUPPY::PANES "Watching the big apple turn over" >>>

>>re .149

>>Translation please.

>>Thanks,

>>Stuart


Wat bedoel je?


T_

.152> Who?

	Chelsea of course.

             <<< Note 15.154 by FUTURS::DAGLESS "May 16th, 1990" >>>

>>.152> Who?

>>	Chelsea of course.


See ya at Wembley when the BLUES will lift the FA-cup

    
    Ton, I'll second your last comment.
    
    JN.

>> See ya at Wembley when the BLUES will lift the FA-cup

	Best joke I've heard in years! :-)

     <<< Note 15.157 by FUTURS::DAGLESS "There's, a circus in the town" >>>
                              -< :-) :-) :-) :-) >-


>> See ya at Wembley when the BLUES will lift the FA-cup

>>	Best joke I've heard in years! :-)


Glad to see you are happy, I'll be happy in a couple of months.


T_

Two results from this weekend, the rest from last week


Sunday:

Premier Div

FC Groningen - Ajax  1-2


Quarter finals KNVB Cup

Telstar - Haarlem  4-1


games played last week for the quarter finals 


Roda JC - FC Utrecht  4-1
FC VVV - Sparta  2-2  Sparta wins after penalties

the last quater final game will be played on the 8th of March and will
be the cracker and old-firm match Feyenoord - Ajax.


T_

    Anyone knows the results of the worldchampionships sprint speedskating
    of this weekend???
    
    Thanks,
    
    Bart.
    

    Ton,
    
    What was the result of Feyenoord-Tottenham because here in France
    Equipe is not willing to say anything about it.
    
    Thanks,
    Bart
    

    
    
    
        FEYENOORD  1-0   TOTTENHAM..
    
    
       ANDY.B.
    

    Well, it seems that the away shirts of Tottenham were not realy
    succesful. I am sure they will be beaten at home as well.
    Anyway, was it a nice match and who scored.
    
    Bart.

                   <<< Note 15.164 by BONNET::HOLLESTELLE >>>
                          -< semifinals here we come >-

>>    Well, it seems that the away shirts of Tottenham were not realy
>>    succesful. I am sure they will be beaten at home as well.
>>    Anyway, was it a nice match and who scored.
    
>>    Bart.

Bart,

Spurs played in their home-strip while Feyenoord played in their green
away strip.


T_

here are the results of this week in the League and Cup in Holland


Quarter finals KNVB Cup

Feyenoord - Ajax  0 - 1


Draw for the semi-finals

Roda JC - Telstar
Feyenoord - Sparta


League Premier Div

MVV - Volendam  1-2
PSV - Vitesse  2-0
De Graafschap - Roda JC  3-2
RKC - SVV/Dordrecht  2-0
FC Groningen - FC VVV  3-2
FC Utrecht - FC Den Haag  4-1
FC Twente - Sparta  4-0


League 1st Div

AZ - FC Zwolle  0-0
BVV Den Bosch - Heracles  1-1
Wageningen - Heerenveen  0-0
NEC - Veendam  0-3
RBC - Helmond Sport  0-0
Emmen - TOP  1-2
Cambuur - Eindhoven  1-0
Zeeland - GA Eagles  1-3
Excelsior - Telstar  1-0
Haarlem - NEC  1-1


T_

ps for the Dutch Ice-fans the first Dutch in the skating competition for the
world title this weekend in Heerenveen was on place 8. 

Pro Badge Utrecht won the Dutch Ice-hockey title for the second year in a
row, beaten Meetpoint Eaters Geleen in a best of five  3-1


T_

    Ton,
    
    How can Feyenoord be in the semi-finals when they have lost with 0-1
    from Ajax???????????
    
    Bart
    

                   <<< Note 15.167 by BONNET::HOLLESTELLE >>>
                            -< Is this possible??? >-

>>    Ton,
    
>>    How can Feyenoord be in the semi-finals when they have lost with 0-1
>>    from Ajax???????????
    
>>   Bart
    

Bart,

that ofcourse should have been :

Feyenoord - Ajax 1-0


T_

re: .161 by BONNET::HOLLESTELLE

Use the technology, minitel 3615 TF1 
under the football menu you got all results from many European countries.

The Dutch teams did well last night, both are now in the semi's


ECII

Spurs - Feyenoord 0 - 0  (0-1 on aggr)


ECIII

Ajax - AA Gent  3 - 0  (3-0 on aggr)


T_

One game played this weekend:

FC Groningen - Sparta  1-0


T_

    Could anyone please tell me when Feyenoord will play here in Monaco??
    It is very near so I would like to go and see the match.
    
    

    1st April - tickets go on sale 25th March at Stade Louis II. 
    
    Nice Matin reports that John de Wolf is out for the first leg - good
    news for ASM

    rep -1
    
    He'll probably be out the rest of the season with a real bad ankle
    injury.
    
    T_

games played last night:

Holland - Yugoslavia  2-0

Kieft
Wouters


U21

Sweden - Holland  1-0  (2-2 on aggr, Sweden goes trough on the away goal)

T_

    It is a good result of the Dutch National Team I think, when you
    compare it with the results of the other qualified teams. France played
    a draw againts Belgium, England against Che and Germany even lost.
    According to l'Equipe, Holland was superior to Yugoslavia and they are
    considered to be one of the big favorites in Sweden. Germany on the
    other hand should improve a lot according to them.
    
    It is too bad that Holland did not qualify for the OG in Barcelona.
    But I heard there is still an opportunity for them because Scotland
    qualified instead of Germany, so now they have to play Germany.
    I hope I am well informed.
    
    Bart.

     <<< Note 15.176 by BONNET::HOLLESTELLE "Dutch and Stuck in France" >>>
                                   -< Yahoo >-

>>    It is a good result of the Dutch National Team I think, when you
>>    compare it with the results of the other qualified teams. France played
>>    a draw againts Belgium, England against Che and Germany even lost.
>>    According to l'Equipe, Holland was superior to Yugoslavia and they are
>>    considered to be one of the big favorites in Sweden. Germany on the
>>    other hand should improve a lot according to them.
  
I watch some of the first en the whole second half and I don't know what
l'Equipe saw but they saw another game than I did, both teams played lousy
and it was far in the second half when Holland scored, if this is the way
they will play in Sweden they will have no change at all!!! About the
Germans you as a Dutch man should know better they can play very bad but
when it's tournament time they'll be there.
  
>>    It is too bad that Holland did not qualify for the OG in Barcelona.
>>    But I heard there is still an opportunity for them because Scotland
>>    qualified instead of Germany, so now they have to play Germany.
>>    I hope I am well informed.
    
>>    Bart.

Scotland have qualified for the semis of the EC but not for the OG 'cause
they are not recognised as a country. The best looser also qualifies but
it seems that it is Poland, Holland know have to play two games against
Australia to get qualify.

T_

Gary,


Your favorite Dutch team ie Utrecht will be in Ireland to play some games
in the Easter period, dunno against who etc.


T_

    
    Re-1,
    
    Utrecht play Shamrock Rovers in Dublin on next Wed April 15th.  I'll
    hardly make it.
    
    Gary.

Yesterday evening AJAX won the UEFA cup after a blood stolling final
against Torino wich ended in 0-0, AJAX won on the away goals they scored
two weeks ago, 2-2.

AJAX are now the second club in Europe who have won alle three European
cups, in the 70'ties 3 times in a row the EC I, five years ago the ECWC
and now the UEFA cup.


T_

The Dutch national squad played two friendly's last week, on Wednesday the
beat Austria 3-2 in Sittard and saturday they beat Wales 4-0 in Utrecht.

Sweden here we come.

T_

    Did you see the match against Wales ???
    How was it?
    
    I have only seen the goals against Austria and I think 4-0 is quite ok.
    
    By the way, do you know wether Koeman is allowed to play by Michels or
    not. 
    
    Yeah opponents, get scared !!
    
    Bart

     <<< Note 15.182 by BONNET::HOLLESTELLE "Dutch and Stuck in France" >>>
                               -< Yahooooooooo >-

>>    Did you see the match against Wales ???
>>    How was it?
    
>>    I have only seen the goals against Austria and I think 4-0 is quite ok.
    
>>    By the way, do you know wether Koeman is allowed to play by Michels or
>>    not. 
    
>>    Yeah opponents, get scared !!
    
>>    Bart


Bart,

I saw the game life on telly and the 4 goals were deserved, Nevill Southall
play a good game and made no mistakes but we scored four!!!!!


Tommorow we will play France in Lens (I believe), this will be a real test-case
but I'm very confident that we make a good result.

Koeman has left Barcelona last Monday to join the team and Michels has told
him it's out of the question that he will return to Spain this weekend to play
with Barcelona, Koeman was not happy with that but respected Michels decision.


T_

    France  -  Holland   1 - 1
    
    From what I have seen (which was only 10 mins) it was a moving match.
    I read in the paper that for Holland Brian Roy scored and for France 
    Papin.
    
    It seems that Roy finally starts playing football the way it has to be
    done. He scored two times in two matches, after not being productive
    for about 2 years. (if I am right)
    
    I think the result was ok for both teams and gives them confidence for
    tomorrow.
    
    Bart

Here are the results of the first round fo the Dutch Premier League


Volendam - Vitesse  1-1
PSV - Roda JC  2-0
Sparta - RKC  0-0
Go Ahead Eagles - SC Cambuur  1-1
SVV/Dordrecht - AJAX  0-3
FC Utrecht - FC Den Bosch  1-1
Fortuna S - MVV  1-1
FC Twente - Feyenoord  0-5
FC Groningen - Willem II  1-1

    Hell Ton ! A mere point at home to the "mighty" Den Bosch ! tut tut tut
               what the hell is up with Utreg ? ;-)
    
    Tim

    <<< Note 15.186 by JGODCL::SHERLOCK "L.U.F.C. The phoenix has risen" >>>

>>    Hell Ton ! A mere point at home to the "mighty" Den Bosch ! tut tut tut
>>               what the hell is up with Utreg ? ;-)
    
>>    Tim

Tim,

dunno, it all looks very weak, if you wouldn't know better you would think
that it was the end of the season instead of the beginning.

T_

Here are the results of this weekend of the League in Holland

Willem II - FC Twente     0-1
Feyenoord - Fortuna S     4-1
MVV - FC Utrecht          0-3
FC Den Bosch - SVV/Dordt  2-0
Ajax - GA Eagles          3-1
Cambuur L - Sparta        0-0
Roda JC - Volendam        1-0
Vitesse - FC Groningen    0-0

Top of the Table after 2 games

Team           Played   Points   Goals

Feyenoord	2	4	 9 - 1
Ajax		2	4	 6 - 1
FC Utrecht	2	3	 4 - 1
FC Den Bosch	2	3	 3 - 1
PSV		1	2	 2 - 0

    re Ton :
    
    Be honest ; MVV was much better and had bead luck in scoring !
    U made only three very lucky ( thanks to the referee) goals.....
    
    John ;-)

                    <<< Note 15.189 by UTROP1::HANSSEN_J >>>
                                -< Big U ????? >-

>>    re Ton :
>>    
>>    Be honest ; MVV was much better and had bead luck in scoring !
>>    U made only three very lucky ( thanks to the referee) goals.....
    
>>    John ;-)

John,

They were not! MVV had some good changes (SP?) but J-W van Ede played supurb
in the Utrecht goal and their defence was crap, all three goals were well
deserved and no's 1 & 3 were real beauties!

T_

ps You are a real Ajax supporter by writing those replys as you think
   those noses from Amsterdam are the only team in Holland!

Here are the results of this weekend in the League in Holland

Volendam - RKC  0-2
Sparta - Ajax 0-0
GA Eagles - FC Den Bosch 2-0
SVV/Dordt - MVV 2-2
FC Utrecht - Feyenoord 0-0
Fortuna S - Willem II 0-1
FC Twente - FC Groningen 5-0
Roda JC - Vitesse 0-2

    Last weekend a draw for Ajax and Feyenoord. Ajax was better against
    Sparta but missed many good chances. I liked the new finnish player
    Litmaanen. Roy was taken out pretty fast.....still problems with a post
    eurocup-syndrome, I guess........And because they missed so many
    chances Sparta deserved to make a goal in one of their few ( but
    dangerous counters.
    
    Ton........I liked the Utrecht game, old Smalarek is still the fox !
    They should have won...( actually I think the draw was right but I
    don't dare to write anything against Utreg anymore.......;-)

    RE -1
    
    	So did Litmanen play for the hole game or just last 5 minutes?
    	
    	
    	Jyrki

rep -1

The whole game, he played nice but not very effective.

T_

    re -2
    re -1	He played not effective because Ajax made no goal but he
    		gave some nice passes and his dribblings were good to
    		watch ( as always is with Ajax). And indeed he played
    		the whole game !
    		Ton, can you play effective if you don't score ?

rep -1

John,

yes you can. Think about it and you'll figure out it's possible.

T_

    RE. last 2
    
    	Thanks for the info, nice to hear 'Liti' managed to play for the
        hole game, effective or not. I don't know what kind of a plans Ajax
    	has with him but i think midfield is his 'best' place in the field.
    
    	Jyrki   
    
    	Jyrki 

    re -1
    
    Ton,
    
    you mean play the ball back to your keeper nowadays ?

    re-2
    so this one is re -2 for yirki and the former was is for Ton who was re
    -2 because it was the one before.........;-(
    
    Litmaanen played on the midfield. I think he will be used for Aaron
    Winter who played in the midfield last year and was sold to
    Italy....somewhere.....  
    

    Ton, or anyone else who knows about Dutchmen !,
    
    Do you have any info on a Dutch footballer by the name of Meindert
    Dijkstra ? He joined Notts County in the summer, and has apparently
    been playing very well in the left-back slot, but I know nothing other
    than that.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Rob

             <<< Note 15.200 by PANIC::ANDERSON "Bye Bye 'Pies" >>>
                       -< A la Stuart Pearce seemingly >-

>>    Ton, or anyone else who knows about Dutchmen !,
    
>>    Do you have any info on a Dutch footballer by the name of Meindert
>>    Dijkstra ? He joined Notts County in the summer, and has apparently
>>    been playing very well in the left-back slot, but I know nothing other
>>    than that.
    
>>    Cheers,
    
>>    Rob

Rob,

I've never heard of the guy, he probably comes from one of the first division
teams. I'll ask my brother tonight maybe he knows something.

T_

here are the results of this weekend of the league in Holland


Fortuna S - FC Twente  0-2
SVV/Dordrecht '90 - Willem II  0-2
PSV - FC Den Bosch  7-0
Sparta - MVV  0-0
Go Ahead Eagles - Feyenoord  1-1
FC Utrecht - FC Groningen  1-0
RKC - Vitesse  0-0

four teams are now leading the dance


PSV           played 4  8 points
Feyenoord     played 5  8 points
FC Utrecht    played 5  8 points
FC Twente     played 5  8 points

four teams are still without a loss:

PSV, Feyenoord, FC utrecht and Sparta


T_

    Not another predictions topic........PLEASE.
    
    		Brian.
    

rep -1

You asked for predictions and again we don't want more predictions, that's
why Brian reacted that way.

Also there are extremely few Dutch people in here so what's the point in
discussion a ordinary Dutch league game? I won't take part in the discussion
'cause I dislike both PSV and Feyenoord, so you probably have to discuss things
on your own.

T_

    
    Ton.
    
    Chill out will ya otherwise we'll have to start calling you
    Vinny Jones.
    
    JN. )

    
    We have endless discussions involving very obscure Scottish division
    One teams (nothing wrong with that, I hasten to add), I can not see why
    we shouldn't discuss a match in the Dutch league, be it ordinary or not. 
    
    This conference has always had a huge imbalance towards discussing
    British issues, which might have scared off contributors from other
    parts of the world. Have you noticed Ton, that there are no longer any
    regular reports from Spain, Italy, Portugal or South America and
    that there never have been any from Africa or Asia. Wouldn't you
    like to read comments on the recently started Italian League, Maradona's
    comeback in Seville, European and South American World Cup qualifiers
    to name but a few of the current non-British issues.
    
    Shouldn't we encourage notes on international subjects instead of jumping
    down on them?
    
    (...jumping down from soapbox)
    
    Mind you, if anyone starts a note on AIK Stockholm, I'll immediately
    ask the moderators to take action. :-)
    
    	cheers,
    
    		Stefan

    
    Feel free to discuss any games.  I'd be interested in discussion on the
    Dutch league.
    
    However there are enough predictions already without another
    predictions topic.
    
    Gary.

Hey guys,

I am seriously disappointed here. I am an expatriate dutchie :-(
and I am very interested in the results of the dutch league. You won't
believe how impossible it is to get any dutch football results here
in New Zealand. And after all your discussions on whether or not to have 
a predictions topic I still don't know how the match between PSV and Feyenoord
ended. So can somebody put that result on the line at some stage (together
with other results, and maybe some standings etc.)

Thanks,

Warner

some results

Dordrecht - FC Twente  0-0
PSV - Feyenoord  1-1
FC Utrecht - Fortuna S  4-0
RKC - Ajax  0-5
Volendam - Willem II  1-2
SC CAmbuur - Vitesse  1-3
GA EAgles - FC Groningen  0-0

top of the table

PSV  played 6 11 points
FC Twente played 7 11 points
Feyenoord played 7 10 points
FC Utrecht played 7 10 points

T_

    re -1
    Ajax 6 played 9 points ! 
    And Menzo is great !!!
    
    Glad you're back, Ton

suprise suprise

The manager of the Polish squad has select 35 year old Utrecht player
Wlodi Smolarek for the game against Holland.


T_

ps John, Menzo is a discrace for goal-keeping, hope Advocaat will wake
   up soon and put de Goeij or Snelders in goal

T_

    re .217
    
    These are exactly my thoughts about Stanley.
    
    They say he is the best 'footballing' keeper , well we saw that in his
    last few game's.
    (remember the header against Norway !!!)
    

One game played last night


RKC - PSV  0-3


T_

Here are some results from the Premier League, most games got postponed due
to heavy rain on Sunday.


Saturday results

PSV - FC Groningen  3-0
GA Eagles - Fortuna S  4-2  (after 80 minutes the score was 0-1)
SC Cambuur - FC Den Bosch  2-1

Sunday result

RKC - MVV  0-3

This is the current top 5 in Holland (haven't got figures)

1. PSV
2. FC Twente
3. Feyenoord
4. Ajax
5. FC Utrecht

	Does anyone have any info . on a Feyenoord player called Dwight 

	Blackson , He has just joined Middlesbrough on a weeks trial .

	Bill.

         <<< Note 15.221 by PLUNDR::BODDY "Slaven was born offside" >>>
                             -< Dwight Blackson . >-



>>	Does anyone have any info . on a Feyenoord player called Dwight 
>>
>>	Blackson , He has just joined Middlesbrough on a weeks trial .
>>
>>	Bill.

Bill,

the only thing I know is that he was involved in a bad accident a couple
of years back and that due to this accident one of his legs is shorter than
the onther one (no not his middle wicket :-))). I've seen him play two years
back for Feyenoord and he looked as a strong winger to me but he never got 
a fair change.

T_

Here are the results of the tirth round KNVB cup

P = Premier
1 = 1st Division
A = Amateurs


Volendam (P) - PSV (P)  2-4
FC VVV (1) - Ajax (P)  3-7
DCG (A) - FC Zwolle (1) 1-2
FC Twente (P) - Willem II (P)  4-2
Vitesse (P) - ADO Den Haag (1)  3-0
SC Cambuur (P) - Heerenveen (1)  0-3
TOP (1) - Roda JC (P)  5-1
FC Groningen (P) - Dordrecht '90 (P)  3-0
De Graafschap (1) - Excelsior (1)  0-1
FC Den Bosch (P) - Heracles (1)  2-0
Helmond Sport (1) - RKC (P)  0-1
MVV (P) - Veendam (1)  1-0
FC Utrecht (P) - Emmen (1)  3-2
Feyenoord (P) - GA Eagles (P)  7-0


Draw for the 4th round

Ajax - MVV
Sparta/Telstar - FC Twente
AZ/Fortuna S - Heerenveen
PSV - FC Utrecht
Feyenoord - TOP
FC Groningen - Excelsior
RKC - FC Zwolle
FC Den Bosch - Vitesse

games are played on the 2nd of Dec

This are the results of this weekend in the Premier League in Holland


PSV - Fortuna S  5-0
Sparta - FC Utrecht  1-3
Ajax - MVV  2-2  hahahaha
Cambuur - Feyenoord  0-1
FC Den Bosch - Vitesse  0-0
Volendam - FC twente  1-1
RKC - Willem II  0-0
GA Eagles - Dordrecht  2-1
Roda JC - FC Groningen  4-2


T_

    re -1
    
    What do you mean, Ton ??? Hahahaha ?????? 
    
    John

    re-1
    
    It's gone be a big laugh then this year, huh ?  ;-)
    
    John

          <<< Note 15.227 by UTROP1::HANSSEN_J "are you serious ?" >>>
                             -< Ik sit al, man ! >-

>>    re-1
    
>>    It's gone be a big laugh then this year, huh ?  ;-)
    
>>    John

John,

you are absolutely right, certainly now that you've sold Roy to Italy.

T_

Here are the results of this weekend

Feyenoord - Ajax  0-3
FC Utrecht - PSV  2-0  YEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSS
FC Twente - Roda JC  4-0
Willem II - Cambuur  4-0
Fortuna S - Volendam  0-0
Vitesse - GA Eagles  2-2
MVV - FC Den Bosch  2-1
FC Groningen - RKC  2-2
Dordrecht - Sparta  0-0

PSV suffered their first defeat of the season against the only giant killers
in Holland ie FC Utrecht, it was a well deserved victory and I hope I will
have my voice back by Monday.

Top 5

PSV
FC Twente
Feyenoord
Ajax
FC Utrecht

I'll try to post a full table asap


T_

Table


Team                 Pl  W  D  L  Po   Goals

PSV		     12  9  2  1  20   34 -  7
FC TWENTE	     11  7  2  2  16   24 -  9
FEYENOORD            11  6  4  1  16   23 -  9
AJAX                 10  6  3  1  15   26 - 10
FC UTRECHT           11  6  3  2  15   18 - 11
VITESSE              11  4  6  1  14   17 -  6
MVV                  12  5  4  3  14   19 - 19
WILLEM II            11  5  3  3  13   13 -  7
GA EAGLES            12  4  4  4  12   16 - 19
SPARTA               11  2  7  2  11    7 -  8
RODA JC              11  5  0  6  10   19 - 21
FC GRONINGEN         12  3  4  5  10   13 - 20
RKC                  12  3  4  5  10   11 - 22
CAMBUUR L            12  2  3  7   7   10 - 22
VOLENDAM             10  1  4  5   6    9 - 11
FC DEN BOSCH         12  1  4  7   6   10 - 29
DORDRECHT            11  1  3  7   5    5 - 20
FORTUNA S            12  1  2  9   4    6 - 30



T_

    re -1
    
    Hahhahahahahaha ! And we beat Feyenoord !! ( without Roy !)
    
    Great show, thank you mr Smolarek !
    
    John

          <<< Note 15.231 by UTROP1::HANSSEN_J "are you serious ?" >>>
                            -< Haha, ik sit nog ! >-

>>    re -1
    
>>    Hahhahahahahaha ! And we beat Feyenoord !! ( without Roy !)
    
>>    Great show, thank you mr Smolarek !
    
>>    John

John,


hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

you lost at home against PSV (1-2) and you still have to come to Utrecht
this season and you haven't won a game here for the last 6 years.

Now that's real funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


T_

here are this weekend results


PSV - Dordrecht  4-1
Volendam - FC Utrecht  2-2
Ajax - Willem II  0-0
F.C. Den Bosch - Feyenoord  1-4 or 5
Roda JC - Fortuna S  4-1
RKC - FC Twente  2-1
MVV - Vitesse  1-0
Cambuur - FC Groningen  0-0
Sparta - GA Eagles  6-4


Something else, I would like to now where the discussion on the Dutch League
is done 'cause I can't find it in here. Maybe the people who wrote .206, .208,
.210, .212 & .213 can tell me, or was I right all the way (as usuall!)

T_

    re-1 Ton,
    
    What were you early this monday, don't tell me you had something to do
    this morning.........;-)
    
    J-

          <<< Note 15.234 by UTROP1::HANSSEN_J "are you serious ?" >>>
                    -< one for you(treg) and one for Ajax >-

>>    re-1 Ton,
    
>>    What were you early this monday, don't tell me you had something to do
>>    this morning.........;-)
    
>>    J-

John,

the system fouled ya 'cause it's an hour later in Holland than were this system
is based.

T_

ps I'm always early :-))))) I believe ......

    Anyone know any upcoming fixtures.
    
    Thanx.
    Colm. 

this weekend results in the league and the cup

League

Cambuur - Fortuna S  1-3
Volendam - WIllem II  5-1
Dordrecht 90 - FC Utrecht  0-2

This results take Utrecht to the second place in the League 4 points behind
PSV!!!

Cup

Sparta - FC Twente  0-2
RKC - FC Zwolle  1-4

T_

    Result from yesterday the 10th :
    
    Specially for Ton :
    
    RKC - FC Utrecht  2 - 4

Here are already some results from the top teams in Holland, I'll try to post
all the games tommorow.

Volendam - PSV  3-1
Feyenoord - FC Groningen  3-1
Ajax - FC Utrecht  1-1
MVV - FC Twente  2-0


League table

PSV
Feyenoord
FC Utrecht
MVV

For the first time in Dutch history a mayor refused supporters comming
to a game when they were already at the train station. This happened today
to 1000 FC Utrecht who travelled to Amsterdam to see their team playing.

When they arrived at Diemen train station they were awaited by riot police
and some Ajax fans (what's new), as the party was split into two trains
the first group had to wait for the second one. When both groups were there
the police split the group in two and the first group marched off. Then it took
loads of time but the second group never left and the riot police bashed
everybody back into the train and the first group was waiting opposite of
the train station and got the same bashing when the first group had left.

What happened???!!!

Simple, Ajax supporters walk around with the jewish flag (david star) and call
themself jews so what do the supporters off other clubs do, they call them
jews and this is the reason the 1000 supporters were refused, even when they
already had a ticket to get into the ground. This was all done in order off
the mayor of that wonderful city Amsterdam Mr van Thijn.

What should have been a perfect football afternoon turned into a nightmare,
people got bashed, trains got damaged etc all in the name of justice, well
justice my *ss.

T_

    re -1
    I am sorry for you and the other 'good' Utrechtfans Ton ! Problem was
    that you were surrounded by a couple of idiots that already were saying
    strange things when they were still in Utrecht. And what about the
    leaflets that they want to spread  ? And it were not only the jews were
    was shouted at ! And the special treat Utrecht fans received is not
    different from the treat other doubtfull fans get. I was pleased when
    they returned the fans ! Perhaps you shouldn't travel anymore together
    with these hooligans ; I also stopped travelling with the F-side gang.
    
    John

rep -1

Dear Mr. Hanssen,

just for your info:

The KNVB orders every club to sell 10% of the tickets to the visiting club,
ofcourse Ajax refused and they only sold 900 tickets to Utrecht in combination
with a train ticket making it virtual impossible to travel on your own (wich 
isn't very wise as Ajax "supporters" were hunting Utrecht scalps yesterday).

I was at Utrecht rail station half past 12 and took the first train at one, but
I never heard any racist remarks nor did I received or saw leaflets with racist
songs etc. 

When arriving at Diemen railstation about 50 Ajax supporters were waiting for
us with really nice songs with teribble diseases etc and yes a part of the
Utrecht group responded to this with songs about jews etc but it was already 
clear when the second train arrived that we were denied access to the ground.

The group of about 1000 persons consisted also out of older people and young
girls. I can say with my hand on my hart that Utrecht hasn't got Hooligans
anymore, we are the only club in Holland who beat Holliganism as we had a 
real bad name in the seventies and early eighties, this is all over or shall
I say was?!?!?!

I'm now gonna watch and see what will happen when Feyenoord will visit 
Amsterdam, I don't see any police force turn back 6000 Feyenoord fans.

I agree that something has to be done about racism but what happened yesterday
was racism it self performed by the government.

T_

    re -1
    Thanks for the details, Ton. I wasn't there so I thrust every word you
    say. I heard it all from a friend of mine ( I was playing football
    myself), who told me what I have written just before. He was sitting
    probably in the second train.....He also saw the reactions of the
    Ajaxfans ( are they ???) as you stated. I reacted like I did because I
    am getting sick of all this riotting and police before you go to a
    match. I hoped for one time they did something right this time but from
    you I get that they picked the wrong ones again. Oh yes, I would like
    to see to that some of these so-called Ajax fans wouldn't be allowed to
    be near the stadium......Ton, next year you come to me and we go
    together. I'll buy you a ticket before, here in Amsterdam !
    
    John

    When they say your not getting in in Holland,they mean it.I went to the
    Feyanord/Spurs game in Rotterdam last year and didnt get in.
    
    Dave...
    

           <<< Note 15.245 by PEKING::WILSOND1 "DAVE WILSON @WLC" >>>

>>    When they say your not getting in in Holland,they mean it.I went to the
>>    Feyanord/Spurs game in Rotterdam last year and didnt get in.
    
>>    Dave...
  

DAve,

did you have a ticket for the game or did you want to buy one there?

This group had all tickets so that makes 1000 tickets worth 14 guilders a
ticket, together that's 14.000 guilders (5.000 pounds).

T_  

    
    Re-1
    
    No I didnt,but then again I didnt last time I went in 83/84 I must admit 
    they did say dont travel without tickets,but how many times have you heard
    that one ??
    
    We went to the gound in the morning and were offered tickets,I cant
    remeber how much for now,but it was over the top,so we waited until we
    went to the game thinking we would get in easily.
    
    When we got off the train there was about 300 without tickets and the
    police sealed off the exits to anyone without tickets then they herded 
    everyone into an area set aside and kept everyone there for the duration 
    of the game,unless you wanted to go back to Amsterdam,then they allowed 
    you to leave.
    
    dave...

result from last wednesday

FC Twente - FC Den Bosch  5-0


T_

    Results from last Sunday ( sorry, not all )
    
    MVV - Fortuna SC	5-0	PSV didn't play
    Den Bosch - Utrecht	2-0     Feyenoord - Twente  2 -2               	
    Ajax - Dordrecht	4-0
    
    Result last Wednesday 
    
    Ajax - Vitesse	4-0 !

    
    	Not that it makes a whole lot of difference, but Ajax/Dordrecht
    	was 4-1....I distinctly remember seeing Dordrecht score (the goals 
    	were on a French sports cable channel on Monday night!) ;-)
             
    	Andy.

rep -1

Andy,

you are right.

T_

    re -1,-2
    
    Oh, did they really ???????? ;-) It didn't felt like that ! :-)
    
    J_

          <<< Note 15.252 by UTROP1::HANSSEN_J "are you serious ?" >>>
                            -< How good of them ! >-

>>    re -1,-2
>>    
>>    Oh, did they really ???????? ;-) It didn't felt like that ! :-)
>>    
>>    J_


This is the typical Ajax supporter mentality, there is also a song that
discribes it, I belive it is called "YOU ONLY SING WHEN YOURE WINNIN'

T_

    
    	Go Ahead Eagles   0	Ajax      6
    
    Stephen C.
    

    and on : Ajax - Sparta   6 - 0 !!!!
    
    John

    And again :
    Last Wednesday : Fortuna - Ajax  1 - 4 !!
    I have to say I wasn't so convinced this time of Ajax' superiority ;
    I don't know if they saved themselves so short for the big match
    against PSV or that they really have problems with a closed tight
    defense. On the other hand they have enclosed moretight defenses in the
    past. But in the dutch competition defenders are sometimes watching at
    the beautifull football of Ajax players in stead of doing their job ;
    that's where you get results like 6-0 etc.....
    Sorry Ton, but the best dutch football is still played in Amsterdam !
    
    John

rep -1

We'll see at the end of this season.

T_

PSV 2 - Ajax 1

T_ :-))))))))))0

result from the quarter finals of the KNVB Cup

Heerenveen - PSV  2-1  AET
FC Twente - Ajax  2-4  AET
FC Den Bosch - FC Groningen  2-0
FC Zwolle - Feyenoord  will be played on March 10

Draw for the semi's

Heerenveen - FC Den Bosch
Feyenoord/FC Zwolle - Ajax


T_

    KNVB Cup : Zwolle - Feyenoord  1-1 ( Feyenoord wins after penalties)
    
    Competition : Roda JC - Ajax  1-3 ! 
    Any problems with that, mister T_ ?????  :-)

          <<< Note 15.260 by UTROP1::HANSSEN_J "are you serious ?" >>>
                       -< Train is on the road again ? >-

>>    KNVB Cup : Zwolle - Feyenoord  1-1 ( Feyenoord wins after penalties)
    
>>    Competition : Roda JC - Ajax  1-3 ! 
>>    Any problems with that, mister T_ ?????  :-)

I don't have a problem with Ajax winning but when they are loosing I'm just
having fun, I don't see a problem there.

T_

    re -1 You always have to have the last word, huh ?????

    :-)

    Dutch competition, weekend 13/14 March
    
    Feyenoord - PSV	1-1
    Ajax - RKC		2-1
    MVV - Volendam	0-1
    Den Bosch - Roda	4-3
    Willem II - Sparta	5-0
    Fortuna - Utreg	1-1
    Twente - Dordrecht	2-3
    Groningen -Go Ahead 2-1
    Vitesse - Cambuur   1-1
    
    Ton, I have no problem, you have one with Ajax ! ;-)
     

rep -1

John,

you'll have a problem at the end of the season :-)

T_

ps last game of the season FC Utrecht - Ajax  :-))))))

    re last,
           Utrecht might just get a point there, as Ajax will be feeling
    generous having already got the championship by then ! :-)
    
    Paul (Ajax supporter, new to this notesfile)

    Hi T,
    
    as for the match tonight against Auxerre, I don't give Ajax
    much of a chance to reach the semi-finals, but as they say,
    "it is better to be a has been, than an never will be":-)
    But, like true supporters do, I will be there tonight to support
    them!!
    The semi-final against Feyenoord will be a tough one, but we 
    all know what happened last year, and I'm convinced history won't
    repeat itself.
    The championship this year is between Ajax and Feyenoord, regarding
    the way P.S.V. played the last couple of matches. So I think they
    will drop more points than the others. Beside that, I think 
    they don't even deserve it, when you look to the way they played
    all season. When you lose to Utrecht (thanks for that!!), what
    kind of propective do you have???
    
    Greetings, have a nice match on T.V. tonight, I'll be there to
    shout them to victorie........?!?!?!?!
    Paul.

Paul,

I'm sorrt to say but you talk crap.

PSV will win the League
Feyenoord will win the cup

Ajax will have a place in the UEFA cup next year.

PSV lost in Utrecht 2-0, Feyenoord just pulled out a 0-0 and Ajax will go
down just as last year 2-1.

BTW You needed a dodgy penalty in Januari to pull off a 1-1 in Amsterdam.

T_

    T,
    you think I talk crap?? You should read your own reactions
    once in a while, they're full of humor.
    Just want to remind you, that the Utrecht-Ajax match will
    be the last of the season, so your one fairly good player,
    Mr. Smolarek will probably be so exhausted, that he even 
    won't survive the warming-up,
    have a nice day, geetings to King Ab,
    Paul.

    
    I would not be as pessimistic as you chaps about Ajax versus Auxerre.
    
    Auxerre is really in a bad shape at the moment (they only have one 
    good match since january 1st versus...Ajax).
    Just an recent example:   Among 7 matches in the league, 6 defeats, 
                              1 draw.
       Within 2 months, Auxerre went from tht 1st place to mid table.
       They were defeated at Caen last Saturday.
    
       In fact, several key players are out due to injuries.
       Their attack is not that bad, but the defense....
    
    I would be surprise if they qualify despite the score of the 1st match.
    Allez Auxerre
    
    Pierre-Yves
        
    

               <<< Note 15.272 by JGO::PANTUS "Ajax Amsterdam" >>>
                                   -< Ajax. >-

>>    T,
>>    you think I talk crap?? You should read your own reactions
>>    once in a while, they're full of humor.
>>    Just want to remind you, that the Utrecht-Ajax match will
>>    be the last of the season, so your one fairly good player,
>>    Mr. Smolarek will probably be so exhausted, that he even 
>>    won't survive the warming-up,
>>    have a nice day, geetings to King Ab,
>>    Paul.

That's right, my comments are full of humor your's are full of crap!

You also have a problem with admiting things, face it Ajax are playing
crap at the moment, they needed an own goal by RKC last Saturday, and
it was a shame the way they played against Auxerre.

You can piss-off Utrecht as much as you like but this only shows what
kind of guy you are.

We'll talk again at the end of the season and see who was right.

T_

  Ajax - Auxerre 1-0

  Auxerre go trough on aggr 4-3

  T_ :-)

    But we are still the best team to watch !

    You could say that again!!

    
    	The whole world holds it's breath waiting for the first Utrecht
    supporter to enter something here after last weekend's performance
    
    :-)   :-)  :-)
    
    
    Tim

last night the first semi final for the Dutch Cup was played and 1st Div
side Heerenveen beat Premier Div side FC Den Bosch 2-1 and are on their
way to the final in Rotterdam end of May.

Tonight the other semi is being played, Feyenoord against Ajax in Rotterdam,
the match is covered on Dutch telly and starts at 5.

Hope Feyenoord win !!!

T_ 

    Ton,
       
    Would you care to speculate how the season is going to finish, who'll
    be Premier division champions, 1st division champions, and who will
    be relegated ?
    
    The championship of both divisions is very exciting this year, and will
    more than likely "go to the wire". In other words will be decided on
    the last day of the season.
    
    I think that Ajax will probably just manage it, followed closely by
    Feyenoord. PSV are having a lot of difficulties off the field, and
    this reflects on their performance.
    
    Relegation: Dordrecht (good riddance)
    	        Den Bosch (same again   )
    
    	        Fortuna Sittard to survive the play-offs.
    
    Promotion:  too close, if NEC, VVV, Heerenveen, or NAC make a mistake
    		from now until the end of the season then they're 
    		out of contention. As a supporter I would say
    		and hope NEC, as a realist I would say NAC for the
    		championship. But then again there are too many "if's"
    
    
    Tim

    Feijenoord - Ajax  0 - 5 !!!!!!!
    
    It wouldn't be rare if it would have been 0 - 10 !!!!!
    The best team won and is ready to take the cup !
    
    John

    Results during Eastern :
    MVV - Ajax			1-1
    Feijenoord - Cambuur	3-1
    Groningen - Roda JC		0-0
    Willem II - RKC		1-2               

    more : Willem II - RKC 	0-2
           Dordrecht - Go Ahead 0-0
    	   Utrecht - Sparta	1-1
           Vitesse - Den Bosch  2-0
    	   Twente - Volendam 	2-1
    
    Yesterday : Fortuna - PSV  	1-5

    Yesterday the 21th (Payday !) :
    
    Ajax _ Volendam	1-1
    
    By this result I think Ajax definitely has no chance to be champion
    this year. The game had to be decided in the beginning, but Volendam,
    always a good opponent, held the score to zero. Untill a stupid mistake
    of their defense (playing the ball slowly back...). This draw means 4
    points behind PSV just before the end........OK, we'll take teh cup..

When does the Dutch league end its season? I will be in Eindhoven the 9th of
May for the week but I fear the season will be over before then.

Jerry

                      <<< Note 15.285 by ASDG::JOHNSON >>>
                              -< End of Season? >-


>>When does the Dutch league end its season? I will be in Eindhoven the 9th of
>>May for the week but I fear the season will be over before then.

>>Jerry

PSV will play Go Ahead Eagles on the 8th in Eindhoven (PSV always play their
home matches on Saturday evening), KO at 7.30 PM


T_

    Some results from yesterday, 2 May :
    
    Go Ahead - Sparta	   1-0
    Feyenoord - Den Bosch  5-0
    Vitesse - MVV	   2-1
    Dordrecht - PSV	   0-1 ( stopped during halftime caused by
    				bomalarm)
    Willem II - Ajax	   1-0
    Groningen-Cambuur      0-1
    Utrecht - Volendam	   2-0 ( congrats, Ton , it took a long time...)
    
    Ajax played an awfull game. Yes they didn't get a penalty but
    considering the football they offered they didn't deserve it. It was as
    if they already have their thoughts to the cup final.....Top of this
    thinking was the fact that van Gaal changed Bergkamp in the second
    half. Hope they stop with this or they even would loose from Utreg.....
    
    

    Gooday from Australia. Can you please tell us what the lastest league
    placings are as we are sometimes a bit short on information down here.
    Thanks, Ica and Kees.

        <<< Note 15.288 by GLADYS::CRAVEN "You are a case and a half" >>>
                         -< Greetings from Australia >-

>>    Gooday from Australia. Can you please tell us what the lastest league
>>    placings are as we are sometimes a bit short on information down here.
>>    Thanks, Ica and Kees.

I'll put in a complete tabel on Monday, there are two contenders left for
the championship ie PSV and Feyenoord.

Relegation, who knows, one team is going down straight away the other two
play play-off with the period-champions from the first division.

The winners of the two play-off groups automaticaly go up to the premier

T_

    re -2 : The difference between Feyenoord and PSV is only 1 point !
    	    After them comes Ajax with 4 points behind PSV.....:-(
    	    
    John

On Sunday Ajax played Feyenoord and evrybody agreed that Feyenoord should win
to keep up their hopes for the title this year, well they lost 5-2 and the whole
country said (yes said!!) PSV will be the Champs now.

Well I've gotta bit of news for you:

PSV played away to Roda JC (who were beating 3-1 at home Friday by the fabulous
U's :_)))) and what happend yes yes yes yes yes yes yes PSV lost 2-0 so nothing
has changed yet and Feyenoord can still become champions of Holland this
season.

Come on you Rotterdam pufs

T_

    good day to you down under!!
    Ica and Kees,
    
    if you are interested I can send you "voetbal international",
    a weekly dutch football magazine.
    I can send you the one after the season has ended
    so you have the final results,placings,review of the
    year etc.etc.
    
    Just call Dec amsterdam and give your adress.
    No problem!!
    
    greetings,
    
    Raymond Pantus.

Yesterday evening the second half of Dordrecht 90 - PSV was played, the 
game was stopped a couple of weeks ago due to a bomb alert.

It was 1-0 to PSV at 45 minutes but 2-2 after 90 minutes, with PSV equilising
late in thesecond half, this means that again the championship is wide open
en Feyenoord still have a change after screwing up against Vitesse last Sunday
(1-1), PSV now play Vitesse in Nijmegen (yep not Arnhem they are redoing the
pitch 'cause it looks even worse than Boundary Park :-))) who can still claim
a place in Europe next season and will go for it all the way.

T_

The result of the Dutch cup-final yesterday afternoon was:

Ajax 6 - Heerenveen 2

The ground was completely sold out (over 60.000) and the atmosphere was 
Wembley like, not in the last place to the 25 thousend Heerenveen supporters
who made the long journey by bus, car, train, boat and plane.


T_

    Last weekend results :
    
    Feyenoord - Willem II  3 - 0
    Vitesse - PSV	   1 - 0 ! 
    Extra for van Beukelen-fans ; he made the major mistake.......
    Through this result Feyenoord can pass PSV if they beat MVV in
    Maastricht next wednesday ( I believe....)
    Other results :
    Ajax - Groningen 	4-0
    Roda - Go Ahead	4-0
    
    For the rest I have to look for a newspaper, or Ton will help us out
    here.

rep -1

SC Cambuur - FC Utrecht 1-2

T_

    Result last Tuesday :
    
    MVV - Feyenoord	0-2
    
    Through this result Feyenoord is the new leader of the dutch
    competition leading with one point more then PSV. Next weekend the last
    games of the two !
    
    John

    Result thursday :
    
    Ajax - Fortuna 	5-1 ! Two beauties from Bergkamp !
    
    You were right, Ton. Utreg meets Ajax next monday, and not a week later
    as I stated........Let the best win.....:-)
    
    John

some scores from yesterday

PSV - Volendam  2-2
Feyenoord - FC Groningen  5-0
FC Utrecht - Ajax  1-2 (yak yak yak)

this means that Feyenoord have won the title and the play EC I next year,
Ajax have won the cup and also go into Europe, the other places in Europe
are for PSV, FC Twente and Vitesse.

Utrecht ended 8 and did three places better than last season.

Relegation is still open, Dordrecht have 18 points and play Cambuur at home
tonight, FC Den Bosch and Fortuna have 20 points and play against each other
tonight. The nr. 18 goes down to the first division, the other two will have
to play play-off with the period-champ of the first division for two places
in the Premier League

T_

    And the best won : Utreg - Ajax   1-2 ! With beautifull goals of
    Bergkamp and de Kock !
    
    Champion however : Feijenoord. They have beaten FC Groningen in
    Groningen with 0-5 ! PSV didn't come further then 2-2 against Volendam
    and were very lucky that the equilizer was a misunderstanding from a
    defender and the keeper........
    
    Other results :
    
    Sparta - Roda	2-4
    Twente - MVV	2-0
    
    

How about the two remaining games of thuesday?
What are the results so far in the playoffs in first division?

P

some news about the play-off in Holland for two places in the Premier League
next season.

In one the group the decision has already fallen, NAC (Breda) will go up,
FC Den Bosch will go down and de Graafschap will stay.

In the other group the battle is going between Heerenveen and Fortuna S,
NEC (Nijmegen) already hasn't got any change of promoting. Tommorow Fortuna S
plays Heerenveen in Heerenveen, the have the same amount of point but the
goal difference of Fortuna is slightly better so they could do with a draw
but it will be a very hard game for them as Heerenveen hasn't lost much games
at home this season and the even beaten some Premier league clubs in the 
Dutch cup including PSV.

I hope Heerenveen will promote 'cause they deserve it and Fortuna S are plain
SH*T

T_

    Other news :
    
    the war at PSV has begun ; last weekend trainer Westerhof and his
    assistant Arnesen were fired. A lot of dust around it and an opposition
    is forming to throw out manager Ruts and leader Ploegsma. I hope they
    can start with eleven players next season......

    PSV story - continued
    
    New Trainer : Aad de Mos ( former Ajax, Mechelen, Anderlecht etc)
    New Youth coach : Hans Westerhof ( former trainer) ;-)

So PSV aren't waiting for Graham Taylor?!

g

    re-1 Oh, yes, but he wasn't free at the time. Next to that he stays
         with the England team untill the Holland-England game, at least we
         hope........;-)
    
    John

just some news:

Romario is going from PSV to Barcalona Fee 10 million Dutch Guilders
Vanenburg is going from PSV to Yamaha Fee 2 million Dutch Guilders

Bijl is refusing to play one more minute for Utrecht, thanks very much
Mr. Bijl we can do without ya.


T_

Dutch draws in Europe:

Feyenoord will play either the Albanian or the Iceland champions

Ajax will play Croatian Hadjuk Split

FC Twente will play Bayern Munich

Vitesse will play Norwich

PSV will play Karlsruhe


T_

When does the Dutch League begin its '93/'94 season?

Jerry

                      <<< Note 15.310 by ASDG::JOHNSON >>>
                           -< Season start........ >-

>>When does the Dutch League begin its '93/'94 season?
>>
>>Jerry


The 15th of August



T_

    
    Some news : 
    
    PSV has played this week-end at Antwerp (former ECWC finalist).
    Ended up 2-2. PSV scored twice with the young Nii Lamptey from Ghana.
    Lamptey is currently on test, and might sign this week from Anderlecht
    to PSV.
    
    Good match to follow next week-end, Saturday 19.30 : Utrecht - Anderlecht
    
    
    Philippe

some results from this weekend


Ajax - Chelsea  1-1 CFC win after penalties
Feyenoord - Barcelona  4-2 8 or 9 yellow cards, two goals by younster Bob Petta
FC Utrecht - Anderlecht  2-3  one red crad for a Belgium defender for kicking a
                              Utrecht player who was already on the ground, two
                              yellow cards for Utrecht players for real English
                              tackles :-))), the few Anderlecht supporters who
                              were there showed off like real pricks.
Ajax - Lazio Roma  2-0  nice goal by van de Brom.




T_

    Supercup : Feijenoord ( champion) - Ajax ( should be...)   0-4 !
    
    Like former games no problems for Ajax to crash the F-defense. It was
    quit boring to see this goal-festival for the third time this year...
    It was good to see Rijkaard playing the whole match ( he had become a
    bit lazy after his holiday......).
    Goals : Litmanen (2x), Frank de Boer and Overmars.

some results from the first round of the Dutch league


FC Groningen - PSV     1-2
Ajax - RKC             3-0
Volendam - FC Utrecht  2-2
Feyenoord - Cambuur    1-0
FC Twente - FC VVV     3-0
Heerenveen - Sparta    1-0
NAC - Roda JC          2-3
Willem II - MVV        1-0
GA Eagles - Vitesse    1-3 or 4


T_

      <<< Note 15.315 by UTROP1::JANSEN "Reading Blondes have more fun" >>>

results from the second round of the Dutch league


PSV - GA Eagles        3-0
Roda JC - Volendam     2-0
RKC - FC Twente        3-1
Cambuur - NAC          1-3
Sparta - Willem II     1-0
FC Utrecht - Ajax      1-4
Heerenveen - Sparta    1-0

T_

    re -1  Nothing else to say, Ton ????

          <<< Note 15.317 by UTROP1::HANSSEN_J "are you serious ?" >>>
                             -< a good start..... >-

>>    re -1  Nothing else to say, Ton ????


Like what???? congratulations?????? never!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1


T_

    re -1 No, I know you can't do that, sportsman, but it was a hell of a
          good game from Ajax, wasn't it !!!!
          

          <<< Note 15.319 by UTROP1::HANSSEN_J "are you serious ?" >>>
                        -< on the grass, you mean.... >-

>>    re -1 No, I know you can't do that, sportsman, but it was a hell of a
>>          good game from Ajax, wasn't it !!!!
  

bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla
bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla
bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla
bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla
the season is only 2 weeks long, we'll see who will be on top after 34 games
bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla
bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla
bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla
bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla
        

    re -1  well said !

results of the games played last night

Ajax - Sparta  3-0
Willem II - Vitesse  0-3
Heerenveen - PSV  0-0
GA Eagles - FC Utrecht  4-0  A damn shame, I travelled there sh*t
FC Groningne - Roda JC  3-5
FC Volendam - Cambuur L  4-1
NAC - FC VVV  4-1
Feyenoord - FC Twente  1-0
MVV - RKC  1-1


The league is lead by three teams with 6 six points out of six

Ajax
Roda JC
Feyenoord

Three teams without points 

FC Groningen
FC VVV
Cambuur L


T_

    
    My little crystal ball says that Leo van Veen will replace
    Ab Fafie as trainer of Utrecht before, or during the winter
    break. Any comments on this ?
    
    Tim

             <<< Note 15.323 by JGODCL::SHERLOCK "Leeds United" >>>
                                  -< Dag Ab >-

    
>>    My little crystal ball says that Leo van Veen will replace
>>    Ab Fafie as trainer of Utrecht before, or during the winter
>>    break. Any comments on this ?
>>    
>>    Tim

Tim,

your little crystal ball could be quite right and I'll have to admit
I hope to see King Ab send away asap 'cause he's so unbelieveable
stuborn and refuses to admit that he's doing things wrong, for example
last night he started with Willem vd Ark as targetman up front but the
only two wingers Utrecht has got (Kelders & de Kruijf) started on the
bench and got on the pitch in the second half. You can't play vd Ark
without wingers 'cause his strenght is in the air in front of the goal.

This morning I heard Fafie on the local radio and he said he was so
sick and tired of all the critics on him and that the players don't
have any class or whatsoever. Well he might be right there 'cause we
haven't has such a poor team since a couple of years but he isn't doing
anything to improve, he keeps on playing the old failing players instead
of picking out a bunch of young eager youth players.

T_

last weekend results and I'm getting sicker every day!


Vitesse - Ajax  0-1
Sparta - MVV  2-2
Roda JC - GA Eagles  2-1
PSV - WIllem II  2-1
SC Cambuur - FC Groningen  0-2
FC Twente - NAC  0-1
VVV - Volendam  2-0
FC Utrecht - Heerenveen  0-1

Ajax and Roda lead the pack with 8 points out of 4 games, at the bottom are
CAmbuur with 0 points outa 4 games and Utrecht with 1 point outa 4 games :-(


T_  

last night result


RKC - Feyenoord  1-2


T_

two games last night, comments very short 1) at last 2) lukcy


1) FC Utrecht - FC Groningen  2-0
2) MVV        - Ajax          1-1


T_ 

    Re -1	Luck seems to be the major differentiating item this
    competition for the 'big' three Ajax, PSV and Feijenoord. Ajax was the
    last two games lucky ( 2 goals from Litmanen, 3 points, yesterday fell
    the goal in the last minute). Feijenoord and PSV were only lucky. So
    the champion this year will probably be the most luckiest......And the
    one who can get the most point from the games among them. Next sunday
    the first ; Ajax - PSV.
     
    Well Ton, and Utrecht was lucky too, for a change ! 

          <<< Note 15.328 by UTROP1::HANSSEN_J "are you serious ?" >>>
                        -< Luck in dutch competition ! >-

>>    Re -1	Luck seems to be the major differentiating item this
>>    competition for the 'big' three Ajax, PSV and Feijenoord. Ajax was the
>>    last two games lucky ( 2 goals from Litmanen, 3 points, yesterday fell
>>    the goal in the last minute). Feijenoord and PSV were only lucky. So
>>    the champion this year will probably be the most luckiest......And the
>>    one who can get the most point from the games among them. Next sunday
>>    the first ; Ajax - PSV.
>>     
>>    Well Ton, and Utrecht was lucky too, for a change ! 

Bullshit, Utrecht fully deserved the win, Groningen was/is a pittyful side
what will go down if they won't get their act together.

T_

    re-1 Took you long to react this time, Ton   ;-)

          <<< Note 15.330 by UTROP1::HANSSEN_J "are you serious ?" >>>
                            -< A joke is a joke ! >-

>>    re-1 Took you long to react this time, Ton   ;-)


Maybe I was working?? you know?????

    re -3 No, serious, what is luck. When I saw Utrecht on TV I saw just
    a few pictures. I saw a lucky first goal, I saw a strange decision of a
    referee sending someone out and the second goal just before the end.
    Looked lucky to me. Probably you saw the same from Ajax ; so you missed
    that Ajax was offensive during most of the game. Where MVV had two real
    goal chances, Ajax had 7 or 8. The post was hit several times ( it's
    called bad luck). Like last year the goal didn't fall. And one lucky 
    (you read this !) shot from MVV was 1-0.....The only luck that Ajax had
    was that they finally scored in the last minute ! It was not more or
    less deserved for 90 minutes offensive football !!! And then they call
    it luck........loosing a point !

          <<< Note 15.332 by UTROP1::HANSSEN_J "are you serious ?" >>>
                            -< Doe effe normaal ! >-

>>    re -3 No, serious, what is luck. When I saw Utrecht on TV I saw just
>>    a few pictures. I saw a lucky first goal, I saw a strange decision of a
>>    referee sending someone out and the second goal just before the end.
>>    Looked lucky to me. 

      The first goal was indeed made with some luck but how can you say that it
      was a strange decision of the ref to send Wilson away? You can't 'cause
      it wasn't on tv, the ref was not further than 2 meters away facing the
      incident, so nothing strange about that, he hit JP de Jong and deserved
      his sending off. The second goal was late but the Ajax one even later
      so ...........

>>    Probably you saw the same from Ajax ; so you missed
>>    that Ajax was offensive during most of the game. Where MVV had two real
>>    goal chances, Ajax had 7 or 8. The post was hit several times ( it's
>>    called bad luck). Like last year the goal didn't fall. And one lucky 
>>    (you read this !) shot from MVV was 1-0.....The only luck that Ajax had
>>    was that they finally scored in the last minute ! It was not more or
>>    less deserved for 90 minutes offensive football !!! And then they call
>>    it luck........loosing a point !

      I saw just as much as you did or did you travel all the way to Maastricht?
      I went to Utrecht ofcourse but have you ever heard of VCR's??? Yes you
      are right Ajax had not all the luck in the world the first half when they
      hit the bar and the post (what Utrecht did against Heerenveen and 
      Groningen) but MVV played very nice footy so what you are saying about
      MVV is pure crap.


      T_

this weekend results

Ajax - PSV  2-0
Willem II - FC Utrecht  4-1
Heerenveen - Roda JC  0-0
GA Eagles - SC Cambuur  2-0
FC Groningen - FC VVV  0-3
Volendam - FC Twente  2-5
NAC - Feyenoord  1-2
Sparta - RKC  1-1
MVV - Vitesse  0-2


T_

    re -1  It was live on TV, Ajax-PSV. It looked like the game last year ;
    Ajax constantly having the ball, PSV defending and waiting for the
    counter. Difference ; this year PSV got overrun in the center and there
    attack was seldom dangerious. Not for nothing that the Ajax crowd began
    scanning : "Where's Romario?", on a moment that one of the many chances
    for Ajax was missed. Late in the second half Finidi George finally
    scored and after that no one could stop Ajax anymore ( not even the
    referee...he had tried before...). Litmanen scored a beautifull goal,
    he deserved this one because he played brilliant. Van Vossen scored
    also but this goal was for doubtfull reasons not guilty. Van Breukelen
    had taken care that the score wouldn't be 5 o 6 to zero or even higher.
    He was the best at PSV.
    Conclusion ; Ajax is on the moment far out the best club. And that on
    a moment where they are not in full form yet ; Rijkaard, van Vossen,
    George, Petterson and de Boer are still in progress but not on their
    top. And we have to take care to make the same mistake as last year ;
    beautifull football but missing to many chances.
    PSV is far beyond schedule ; they have to start all over again and it
    looks as with Romario the angle is taken out there.
    
    re -2 Ton, read before you write (react) ! And yes, I was in
    Maastricht.

I just received a phone-call from a collegue saying that Ab Fafie has 
received his marching orders and is on his way out of the Galgenwaard.

I'm now listening to the local radio to see if they confirm it.


T_

      <<< Note 15.336 by UTROP1::JANSEN "Reading Blondes have more fun" >>>
                           -< King Ab is going down >-

>>I just received a phone-call from a collegue saying that Ab Fafie has 
>>received his marching orders and is on his way out of the Galgenwaard.
>>
>>I'm now listening to the local radio to see if they confirm it.
>>
>>
>>T_


Local radio just confirmed that it's true, King Ab is down and out in Utrecht.

The players yesterday voted against him staying after a very bad start,
Fafie said he was very disappointed in his players.

T_

    Results last weekend :
    
    Sparta-PSV		0-0
    Heerenveen-VVV	1-0
    Go Ahead-Twente	3-3
    Willem II-Cambuur	4-1
    Vitesse-RKC		4-0
    Ajax-Roda		2-0
    MVV-Utreg		2-1
    Groningen-Feijenoord0-4
    Volendam-NAC
    
    Ajax is still leading. Feijenoord, not looking good till now but hasn't
    lost any point ! (But played one game less then Ajax). Vitesse and Roda
    are still following. Also NAC is surprisingly well. Problems are there
    for Cambuur and Utreg.

REP -1

with also problems for Groningen (2 points), RKC (3 points).



T_

ps It's Utrecht for you

Yesterday Utrecht annouced it's new trainer/coach and guess who??? yep, former
Utrecht player and still carrying the Tittle Mr. F.C. Utrecht, Leo van Veen.

Now let's hope if something is gonnan change, maybe he can do the Fafie trick
and bring us to the fourth place at the end of the season.

T_ 

two games played this weekend


FC Twente - FC Groningen 0-1
Vitesse   - Heerenveen   3-0


T_

    RE .340
    
    Looks like my crystal ball was accurate doesn't it ?
    
    Tim

this weekend results

NAC - FC Groningen  2-1
Feyenoord - GA Eagles  1-0
FC Twente - Heerenveen  2-1
FC VVV - Willem II  P-P (both on saturday and sunday due to heavy rain fall)
SC Cambuur - Ajax  P-P (due to heavy rain fall)
Roda JC - MVV  4-1
FC Utrecht - Sparta  3-1
PSV - Vitesse  P-P  (due to heavy rain fall)
RKC - Volendam  1-3


Utrecht played it's first match under new trainer/coach Leo van Veen and
started well, within 90 seconds Pieter Bijl scored and it looked like we
were in business but then Sparta adjusted their play and started to play
better than Utrecht, this resulted in 1-1 after 23 minutes. After that Sparta
should heave scored but they didn't and then it became the 42th minute,
Utrecht central defender de Kock passes the ball to Vierklau who plays it back
but it is too slow, Sparta defender Bogarde goes after it but finds de Kock
on his way to the ball, they battle and de Kock gives him an elbow, Bogarde
is furious and gives de Kock a push, he falls and the ref is only seeing
the second foul not the first one so Bogarde get's a red card, Sparta goes
completely mad and after the free kick is taken and de Kock is having the
ball de Nooijer from Sparta comes in with a furious attack on the the legs
of the Utrecht defender, the ref doesn't hesitate and gives him a red card
as well. Then during the break the former Utrecht and now Sparta coach Berger
calls one of the linesmen a d*ckhead and get's a red one as well.

The second half start and Utrecht play very very poor not able to take the 
Rotterdam defense with 2 man short until the 80th minute when Willem van de
Ark heads home with a flying dive. Sparta defender van Eck then makes a wild
charge and get's a yellow card and after the next Sparta foul he starts 
"talking" to the ref who gives him his second yellow card wich means he also
receives a red one after that de Kruijf scores 3-1 but that's just for the
statistics.

4 goals
1 yellow card
4 red cards

all in one evening

T_

    some results last weekend :
    
    Vitesse - Utrecht	2-2
    Ajax - VVV		2-0
    PSV - RKC		1-1
    Sparta - Roda	3-0
    Heerenveen-Feijen.	1-3

last night result


FC VVV 2 Vitesse 1


T_ :_)))

    re-1 Do I read some sarcasm Ton in last nights result ?????;-)

          <<< Note 15.346 by UTROP1::HANSSEN_J "are you serious ?" >>>
                         -< Vitesse slowed down..... >-

>>    re-1 Do I read some sarcasm Ton in last nights result ?????;-)


Sarcasm? who me? naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah neverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr :-)))0


T_

    Last weekends results......gna gna...
    
    Cambuur - Sparta	1-1
    NAC - Heereveen	6-0
    Roda JC - Vitesse	2-1
    VVV - MVV		1-7
    Volendam - GoAhead	0-1
    Feijenoord - Willem	2-0
    FC Utrecht - PSV	0-4
    RKC - Groningen	2-3
    Twente - Ajax	2-1 ( Grrr)
    
    Tabel now : Feijenoord 9-18, Ajax 9-15 and Roda 10-14. Next sunday Ajax
    will come closer to Feijenoord in the Ajax-Feijenoord match.

this weekend results


Roda JC - FC Utrecht  4-0
FC Groningen - Heerenveen  2-2
Volendam - Willem II  0-3
NAC - Ajax  0-5
Feyenoord - MVV  4-0
FC Twente - Sparta  0-0
SC CAmbuur - PSV  1-3
RKC - GA EAgles  1-2  (not sure)
FC VVV - Vitesse  ?-? (was this game played??)


T_

    Interesting results last wednesday :
    
    Cambuur - Ajax	0-3
    Vitesse - PSV	1-0
    VVV - Feijenoord	2-2 (Clear offside goal from Feijenoord !)

          <<< Note 15.350 by UTROP1::HANSSEN_J "are you serious ?" >>>
                               -< more results >-

>>    Interesting results last wednesday :
>>    
>>    Cambuur - Ajax	0-3
>>    Vitesse - PSV	1-0
>>    VVV - Feijenoord	2-2 (Clear offside goal from Feijenoord !)


Yeah specially as it was 1-1 at VVV - Feyenoord and PSV lost at home 1-0.


Nice result from last sunday Ajax - Feyenoord  2-2

Ajax scored the second one just before th end lucky bums


T_

  Ton I watched highlights of the Dutch league last night and I have to say the
quality of your referees is something else.... In the Feyenoord game I think it
was the third goal, the player was about 3 metres offside, no worries this
happens, he then went on to basically kick the keeper on the head (the keeper
was standing up) and then strolled the ball over the line.... I've never seen
a player so surprised and estatic after scoring a goal!!!! He couldn't believe
it and neither could I... Does this happen often up there???? If I was the
trainer of the MVV team I would have taken my team off the pitch after that
incident... It was a disgrace, and if the same referee was making his living in
some other countries he would be "pushing up roses" and not blowing a whistle!!!

                                                              any comments?????

                                                                    -dave-

rep -1

Dave,

Than you didn't see the first Feyenoord goal scored out of a penalty?!?!?!?!

They Feyenoord player was brought down at least one meter outside the box, the
MVV coach said after the game that the ref had said that the offence was on the
line so the lines in the Feyenoord ground must be enourmously thick :-)))


You are correct the Dutch referee's are a pain in the arse and the way it
looks now non will go to the WC next year and that's deserved.


T_

    re -1/-2
    It is not new that referees here in Holland have sometimes doubtfull
    performances. However it seems that outside Holland they whistle quit
    well.....But it is an open secret here that clubs like Feijenoord and
    PSV and in a lesser degree ( more the opposite...) Ajax were favoured
    against other teams......
    
    re-3 (Ton...who else......) Lucky bums ?????? Loosing a point against
    that crap ?????
    
    Some results from yesterday :
    
    PSV - VVV		2 - 3
    Sparta - Feijenoord 3 - 4
    Ajax - Volendam     3 - 1
    Vitesse-Twente	3 - 0
    Utrecht - Cambuur	2 - 0
    Heerenveen-Eagles	1 - 4
    
     

    
>>    re-3 (Ton...who else......) Lucky bums ?????? Loosing a point against
>>    that crap ?????
  

      Crap? then Ajax must be even bigger crap as Feyenoord lead the League
      and Ajax trail by two points!
  
>>    Some results from yesterday :
    
>>    PSV - VVV		  2 - 3
>>    Sparta - Feijenoord 3 - 4
>>    Ajax - Volendam     3 - 1
>>    Vitesse-Twente	  3 - 0
>>    Utrecht - Cambuur	  2 - 0
>>    Heerenveen-Eagles	  1 - 4
  

      Sorry to dissapoint ya but PSV won 3-2!




        
     

    re-1 Nice to tell that, Ton. You were absolutely right with PSV !
         Also nice to know that you judge football to the number of points
         I enjoy more to view who plays nice ( and in the end we will have
         the most points !)!
    	 I must however say that Feijenoord had a lot of luck and help from
    referees. But I respect them for collecting so much points as they have
    now with the quality of players they have !
    
    John

rep -1

Yeah you talk like the average Ajax fan, "we love good football and we never 
mind the points 'cause afterall with good football points will come automaticly"

Well then why hasn't Ajax been champions over the last few years?

I know I know, you've been treated wrong by the whole world and were never 
understood.

Well I hope it stays that way!


T_

    re -1  Oh no, mr T_, I won't blame the whole world for that Ajax
    couldn't get champion the last couple of years. The only one I blame
    for that are the players themselves on the moments they trie to play so
    beautifull that they miss the best chances...and then loose in the end
    one or more points.
    And they play the best football in Holland for years. And for
    godsake...don't come with that "you haven't been champion" story
    again....that is logic of number scr***. Look around ; which dutch club
    has the most fans outside its own city ? And who is the major supplier
    for the national team ? And for what team where most players playing in
    foreign countries like Spain and Italy ?????
    Arrogance ? Then who is the club who plays the nicest, best and
    beautifull according to you ????
    
    John

re -1

Getting hot and heavy in the Dutch league topic?  I thought I'd never see the day
:-).  Stop that heavy breathing, it upsetting the more sedate of us in here. 

                              James.

rep -1

just noticed that my entry was set hidden, never received notice from the 
moderators, something they usually do, the one who set it hidden must be
an Ajax supporter aswell and can't take critisim, a well that's life and it
won't stop me!

T_

    
    Ton,
    
    the mods have been soooo busy lately deleting and setting notes hidden
    that they just possibly have been finding it difficult to keep track of
    who to mail.
    
    By the by, bumped into Andy and Emma Saturday night, they both send
    there regards, Emma's looking radiant,
    
    Loz.

  <<< Note 15.362 by PEKING::JOLLYL "Viva la rock .... the killer lives on" >>>

    
>>    Ton,
     
      Loz,

  
>>    the mods have been soooo busy lately deleting and setting notes hidden
>>    that they just possibly have been finding it difficult to keep track of
>>    who to mail.
  
      How do you know? Since when are you in the moderating business??? Anyway
      got a message from Gary Spain saying he did it, so I have to take back
      the part of the mod who did it was an Ajax supporter 'cause we all now
      Gary supports the fabulous U's from Utrecht who btw were knocked out of
      the cup in Holland last night against 1st div site FC Den Bosch.
  
>>    By the by, bumped into Andy and Emma Saturday night, they both send
>>    there regards, Emma's looking radiant,
  
      Ta, hope you didn't bump to hard :-))) did ya asked Andy for his business
      phone number ???

  
>>    Loz.

      T_

    I am going to be sad that I didn't read your note, Ton that was set
    hidden......
    By the way, Ajax are a round further ; yesterday Heerenveen was smashed
    with 8-3 ! Other results that I know :
    Excelsior - Feijenoord	2-3 (after)
    Graafschap- Vitesse		2-1.....
    Treffers - NEC		1-3
    

    
    Whoops! I forgot,we were both slightly inebriated, to the point of
    doing a little moonstompin.  I called him at home yesterday and he
    was in, might be worth a try,
    
    Loz.

rep -1


what was the rude word? :-))))



T_

    Result last weekend :
    
    VVV - Willem II	0-0
    
    John

    some results last weekend 
    
    Feijenoord - Vitesse	1-1
    Groningen - Ajax		0-4
    Volendam - MVV		5-0 
    
    J-

    Results last weekend
    Ajax - Go Ahead Eagles	4-0
    PSV - Feijenoord		1-3
    Utrecht - Twente		1-0
    Roda - VVV			0-0
    
    John

rep -1

one result missing

Willem II - Heerenveen  1-1

All other games were PP.

T_

    Feijenoord - Utrecht	1-1
    NAC - PSV			2-2
    
    Monday :
    
    Heerenveen - Ajax		1-4
    
    In spite of the fact that Ajax played a terrible game last monday, they
    are leaders in the competition right now. In points we are equal to
    Feijenoord but the goal difference is far out better. Keeping
    concentrated on the rest of the competition will be the main item for
    Ajax. Last monday should have been punished ! Ajax is the best dutch
    team on the moment, but that means that you have to proof that every
    game. The mentality from some players is still a problem.....
    
    John

    Roda JC - Feijenoord	1-0
    PSV - Volendam		3-0
    Sparta - Go Ahead Eagles	1-0
    Ajax - Willem II		3-1 !
    RKC - VVV			1-2
    MVV - Heerenveen		3-1
    Utrecht - NAC		0-5 ! ( Have you slept well, Ton ?)
    
    By the loss of Feijenoord Ajax is the number one, two points loose on
    Feijenoord and at least 6 at the rest of the competition. Next to that
    the goal result is farout the best ! Ajax is called here the
    Winter-Champion, the club that has the most points on the half of the
    competition. Hope we can make this time the real summer-championship
    too ! I cannot say that the last two games were very impressive.....
    
    John

    Dutch Cup result, last wednesday :
    
    Third round :
    
    Dordrecht'90 - Emmen	6-2	Dordrecht - Feijenoord (9-1-'94)
    
    Fourth round :
    
    Helmond Sport - Den Bosch	1-0
    NEC - de Graafschap		2-0
    RKC - Telstar		2-1
    Ajax - FC Twente		4-1 !
    PSV - Willem II		2-1

Dutch results

FC Utrecht - Volendam  3-1
PSV - FC Groningen  1-1
MVV - Willem II  1-0
Sparta - Heerenveen  3-0
FC VVV - FC Twente  0-0
Vitesse - GA Eagles  5-0


T_

    Results weekend 5/6 February
    
    VVV - Groningen	1-3
    Cambuur - Go Ahead	1-0
    Utrecht-Willem II	1-1
    Vitesse-MVV		1-3
    Peijenoord-NAC	1-1
    Roda-Heerenveen	1-1
    RKC-Sparta		3-1
    Twente-Volendam	2-0
    PSV-Ajax		4-1*
    
    Deserved but lucky win from PSV. It seemed that Ajax had sent their
    bodies to Eindhoven but left their minds in Amsterdam. They showed no
    eager, no will no nothing ! PSV on the contrary was very motivated and
    willingly from the first moment. Not to football, they hung with seven
    men constantly for the goal. And if an Ajax player was fast again he
    was fouled immediately. Wouters, van Tiggelen en Popescu for sure went
    sometimes to far in their ambition. One yellow card was the only thing
    they received......it should have been at least two reds an a penalty.
    But the way Ajax countered this violence ( if you can speak of that)
    was pityfull. After half an hour it was already 3-0 !
    I am glad it happened. It went all to smooth and easy for Ajax the last
    half year. And when their arrogance is getting to high, this happens
    and brings them back to real life. I hope they learn from this for
    their game against Parma !

    NAC - PSV		1-0* in extra time
    ADO - NEC		1-2
    RKC - Feijenoord	2-4
    Ajax - Helmond Sp	7-1

    correction to last..
    
    ADO (or whatever they call them this week) - NEC 	1-3
    
    Tim

results from this weekend


Sparta - Ajax  0-1
FC Utrecht - GA Eagles  2-0
Volendam - Roda JC  2-0
Vitesse - WIllem II  0-1


T_

    re .378	Sure that last one counted, Tim ??????  ;-)
        	ADO = ADO Den Haag
    John

    some results last weekend :
    
    Ajax - Utrecht ( without Ton)	3-0
    MVV - PSV				2-1
    Volendam - (lucky)Feijenoord	0-1
    Sparta - Vitesse			4-1 !
    
    Johnf

    Hi everybody,
    
    I'm new to this, but as a reply to .376:
    I didn't see the entire game, I only saw the summary on TV, but from
    what I saw, Ajax made the game, and all PSV did was counter
    occasionally. They made 3 goals out of 2 chances, and won again (nou
    ja, again, this season) while playing bad.
    
    I'm from Den Bosch, and have been an Ajax-fan all my life.
    I can respect you Utrecht-fans, though.
    At least you're TRUE fans, like me.
    Allthough your team will probably never win the championship, you keep
    supporting them (nothing bad intended to say, but let's face it: You
    guys are never gonna be Champions in the PTT-telecompetitie).
    
    If there is 1 thing I hate, it's people who became PSV-supporters when
    PSV won a few Championships and who now are, all of a sudden, fanatic
    Feijenoord-fans. DISGUSTING!!!!!
    
    I'm an Ajax-fan because they play the most beautifull football (at
    least in Holland, if not in Europe!), they always have and they always
    will!
    
    Hope to be able to cheer again at the end of the season, when we have
    won the Europacup II, the Championship and the KNVB-beker (It's allowed
    to have a dream, right?). At least, I expect them to gain the
    championship this year, as they should have last year.
    
    Marcel.

    
    Welcome to the notesfile Marcel, for your information there is a
    separate topic for Ajax (no. 240) it's a bit dead at the moment,
    perhaps you can liven things up a bit by giving your predictions
    for Thursday's game against Parma.
    
    There is also a topic for Vitesse Arnhem, not that it will interest
    you, or me for that matter.
    
    Tim
    
    N.E.C. Nijmegen

Were Sunday's matches (27th) postponed due to bad 
weather? I get a live Dutch football game on TV Sunday
morning and yesterday they showed the tape of last 
week's Ajax-Utrecht match.......

Re: last couple of notes....I happen to be a PSV
supporter though I am an American. I have spent a lot of
time in Eindhoven the past year (4+ months) and have
been fortunate to attend several games over the past
2 seasons....I enjoy the atmosphere at the games, though
sometimes it does get a little unruly such as their first
home game this year against the Go Ahead Eagles.....
Even though PSV isn't challanging for the title I continue
to root for them...

Jerry

                 
rep -1

Jerry,

all games on Friday and Saturday got postponed due to the general condition 
of most of the pitches. The only games played on Sunday were Utrecht MVV 3-0
and FC Twente GA Eagles 1-1.

Don't get upset by the words of some Ajax supporter, they have sucked in the
past, are sucking now and will suck in the future.

PSV deserved the win against Ajax, even Louis van Gaal admitted so the
words spoken here by some ajax guy are as hollow as they can be.


T_



ps I've been suppporting Utrecht since 1971 and will do so for the rest
of my life!!!!!

re: -.1

I share your feelings...mine also extend to Feyenoord

   :-)))))))))))

Jerry

PS: We were supposed to have received the FC Twente -
GAE game....oh well there's always next week.

rep -1

Twente against GAE wasn't much so you didn't much, on the other hand 
Ajax - Utrecht wasn't much either so you gained nothing by it.


T_

    re .-3
    _T, it's nice of you to do charity, by supporting Utreg, but don't
    bring down the best team in Holland ( in the past, the present AND the
    future ) by saying they suck.
    At least, WE KICKED YOUR ASS!   :)
    And we will do this again, and again, and again.....
    
    Marcel
    
    P.S. I've been an Ajax-supporter all my life, just like you've been a
    Utreg-supporter all yours.

rep -1

very abusive!!!!!!!!!!!! At least I don't trow with parts of the Human body.

T_

    Busy talk here again ? Time to add something ;
    
    re.382 (Marcel) : the comment from PSV-Ajax was from me. And just to
    let you know ; I am an absolute Ajax-fan. And they had an absolute
    off-day ; don't remember me again to it...........And never..never
    insult me by calling me a Utrecht-fan. And it's also unbelievable that
    you respect them. We prefer to sent them back, when they arrive in
    Diemen....;-) Right Ton ?
    re .384 ( Jerry) : Sorry Jerry, how can you be a PSV-fan. They are the
    richest club in Holland but you never see that in their games.......
    And when they had bought another star it was over with him. Terrible
    management, terrible football. They gained a Euro Cup by
    penalties.......
    re . 385 (Ton) ; Crawled out of your dark cave ????? I liked the first
    half an hour from Ajax-Utrecht ! Be glad that Ajax stopped playing
    after 3-0 !
    And what a luck against MVV..........
    

rep -1
Well well if it ain't loud mouth John Boy, the lazy teacher from New Fun.

I'm pleased you liked the way ajax played against Utrecht 'cause it's the 
first time in 6 or seven years that they played two decent games against
the so called scum from Utrecht.

About the sending back, yeah well it was the last time that I went to that 
awful place they call a ground. Never ever will I return, not even for free,
or maybe I'll go back once to tear the place down 'cause you can say what
you like about us we are the only supporters that broke a ground down to the
ground :-)))))))

T_

ps what place did you gain in the DEC Utrecht five-a-side tournament??????

    re .-2
    Sorry John, I didn't know you were the one who wrote it.
    I know you're an Ajax-fan, and I'll never abuse you again.
    I wouldn't like to be called an Utreg-fan either.
    
    re .-1
    What is that supposed to mean:  -< Ajax 1 Parma 8 >-  ?
    Is that your way of TRYING to be funny?
    I don't wanna sound TOO positive, but my guess/prediction would be:
    Ajax 3 Parma 1
    And in Parma: Parma 1 Ajax 2
    But, I'll guess we'll see it thursday.
    They DO play thursday, right John?
    
    Marcel

rep -1

Ono it has got nothing to do with being funny, I'm hoping and praying
you posh lot get stuffed all the way.


T_

ps I'm proud of being a Utreg fan, born and bread in this fabulous city.
   I'm sorry you can't say the same about the city you're from so you had
   to go out and find a surrogat!

    re .-1
    Why do you hope that Ajax get their ass kicked?
    Can't you stand the team?
    Why not, 'cause they happen to play great football and kicked your ass?
    Or just because they DO have an occasional success and Utreg doesn't?
    
    The P.S.-part:
    At least I'm objective and therefor able to see what team plays the
    best and most beautifull football, and not just: I'm from Utreg, and
    even if they suck, I'm gonna support Utreg!
    At least I'm honest enough to realise there are better teams who play
    more beautifull football, and I choose the best of them (AJAX) and
    became a fan of that club.
    I still think they're the best available, wether you agree or not, _T.
    
    Marcel

rep -1

a bit touchy aren't we????? yes I hate Ajax with all my heart and I will do so
for the rest of my life, one of the reason is the arrogance of them and their
supporters, you are the perfect example of that.


T_

    This all makes the Rangers-Celtic thing sound like a remake of "Love
    Story" ;-)
    
    Dom

    It's good to see that the "big" club v "local" club argument does on in
    other countries as well. I think the next step should be for the
    Utrecht supporter to ask the Ajax supporter how often he goes to see
    them play. And what's all this about "High trees" ??
    
    Enjoy,
    
    Paul.
    

rep -1

Why bother to ask, the only one in here who frequently visits Ajax is 
John H. so that's simple. I'm a season ticket holder and go to every home game,
I stopped with away games years back 'cause I have to please the Mrs. by being
at home now and then :-)))))

T_

    re Marcel : ofcourse I accept the excuse ! Yes, Ajax plays tomorrow at
    20.00 hours in the Olympic Stadium. If you are there, be there early.
    At 6 PM the gate opens, and because I am in Side U I have to run for a
    seat...I am sure that it will be a great game !
    Oh yeah, never mind Ton. He has that little problem with Ajax, I tried
    to slow it down but he is unhealable. We have to live with that, see it
    from the positive side...it's always meaned as funny.......;-)
    
    re Ton ; Yes Ton, be proud to be a member of the squad that once ruined
    a Stadium ( actually their own). I thought that FC Twente fans were
    even more skillfull by destroying a snackbar on their trip
    to Monchengladbach.........hmmmm
    Yes, I always favoured the team that wasn't my hometown, Ajax. I favour
    a club for what they show on football, not because it's the club were I
    was born. And for ME that is Ajax. And because I lived the last couple
    of years in Amsterdam I also favout the club were I live.
    Ha, the tournament. I knew you had to mention this. And how did it feel
    to meet the only resistance in the final ? Easy group you had, boy ! We
    only lost, with bad luck with 2-1 against your opponent in the final.
    By the way, were the other games in your group so boring that you fell
    asleep in that final ? ;-) No kidding, I liked the tournament, it's
    only pity that so many outsiders are there too.......
    
    re Others : No, Ton makes you believe that there is a 'big' club versus
    'local' club argument. In fact the championship here is always divided
    between the 'bigger' clubs Ajax and Feijenoord and big club PSV. The
    others like Vitesse, Willem II and Roda play just a role in the
    'selection' who will be the Champion. Feijenoord lost another point
    again yesterday against Heerenveen (0-0). That means that after 23
    games Ajax leads 4 points ahead Feijenoord !!!!!
    
    John 

    re _T
    Apparantly your name is Ton, as John says in .-1.
    To answer the question about how many times I visit a match:
    Almost never, because of a lack of money.
    I'm just a student and don't have that much money to spare, allthough I
    would like to see them play off course.
    But the fact that I don't go to their games, doesn't mean I'm less a
    fan. I suffer when they play well and don't win. I suffer even more
    when they play bad. Allthough I'd rather have them play bad and win,
    then play great and draw.
    At first their great football attrackted me.
    Now, I'm this big a fan, that I ,off course, love the way they play,
    but I care more about the result nowadays.
    
    re .-1
    John, I hope you'll have a great place, and will tell us about the
    game, the day after tomorrow.
    Feijenoord had a draw? GREAT!!
    But I thought that they were only 3 points behind, including the 1 from
    the draw. Let me know who's right. I hope you are!   :)
    
    Marcel
    
    P.S. Ton, I hope Utreg plays well all season, especially against
    Feijenoord, our only REAL opponent left.

    re -1 Lack of money...yes I know that. It costs considerable to buy a
    ticket or even more a season card. Unless you want to be a member of
    the F-side.....;-)
    No, I had the same problem when I was a student in Amsterdam. But
    sometimes I saved some money and had my game ! Now I have 'connections'
    and that means I can get a ticket for every euro-game. On sunday I play
    mostly myself. But nevertheless, I have to pay FL 52 for a place......
    Against Besiktas I sat on the Head-tribune, now I am somewhere outside
    in the rain ( if it falls....)....But who cares if you can see the best
    dutch team !
    
    John

    
    Hi Guys,
    
    What about some serious predictions for tonight's game ? Not
    necessarily what you hope, but what you *think* the result will be.
    
    I'll kick off by saying that Ajax will win by 2-1
    
    Tim
    
    N.E.C. Nijmegen 

    Parma - Ajax 2-1

    This weekend's results:
    Ajax       - Cambuur     3-2  after being 0-2 down
    Vitesse    - PSV         0-0  aaaaaah, what a shame  :)
    RKC        - Feijenoord  1-1  tooooo bad!  :)
    I don't know where and against who Utreg played, but they LOST!!!!
    Sorry Ton, I just like it.
    
    In the table, Ajax is first,
    Feijenoord follows, trailing 5 points, PSV at 11 points, Vitesse at 13.
    Topscorer: Litmanen (Ajax)
    
    Marcel

Is RKC the same as Go Ahead Eagles? Re. .404 I watched
Feijenoord play GAE yesterday on TV here and it was 
live (or was it? or am I living in a time warp?). Where
is PSV in the table....I believe that recently they got
up to #3..are they holding on?

Jerry

    re. -1
    Sorry, It should have been: GA Eagles - Feijenoord : 1-1
    Thanx for paying attention, Jerry.
    PSV is third, 11 points behind no.1 Ajax, and 6 points behind no.2
    Feijenoord.
    
    Marcel.
    
    P.S. Jerry, you're not a PSV-fan, are you?

rep -1

What's wrong with being a PSV supporter????? It's better than what you are
doing.

T_

    What passes for Football news in the local paper here reported over the
    weekend that Van Basten won't be making the trip stateside this summer
    - anyone know more?
    
    I know he plays in Italy but I figured that you guys would know more
    I was looking forward to seeing him and the others in D.C on June 20th
    after all you must be good you beat England (:==:)
    
    regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks

    Well it said on Football Italia that his ankle was slowly improving but
    that the doctors had told hime to forget about going to the WC Final.
    
    They said he'll be probably back for the start of next season...
    
    Rick.

Re: .406

Marcel,

Yes I am a PSV supporter though the 3200 mile commute
to the games is getting expensive :-)))

I've made 3 games this season on trips over there...
saw them against Go Ahead Eagles, Vitesse, and 
Herenveen. The last game I got a ticket in the main
tribune and sat with the Philips gurus, club management,
and Romario who made an appearance since he was on 
4 game suspension.

My son has both the home and away strip from PSV and
their banner proudly flies in his room next to the
Glasgow Rangers one...

There, that should stir up some trouble :-)))))))))

Jerry

    re ._T
    What exactly do you think I'm doing that is so bad, Ton?
    
    re .-1
    Okay, Jerry. But when did you become a PSV-supporter?
    And I guess you live in the States? So you can't see them play
    frequently! Well, let me tell you: they haven't played great the last
    couple of years, the only difference with this season is, that this
    season they're losing points playing bad, while the previous seasons
    they (most of the time) managed to win while playing bad.
    Just for the record, I'm not trying to change your opinion, PSV-folks
    themselves (like Ploegsma) are saying PSV hasn't been playing great
    since ages.
    And if you have been a PSV-fan all your life, that's fine with me,
    but as I stated before, I don't like people who become a fan of a club,
    just because they are the champions.
    If your not one of them, then I apologise for my earlier reply.
    
    Marcel
    

Marcel,

Yes I live in the States but have been a soccer junkie
since high school. I am a licensed ref for the USSF and
high school (that should get your dander up) and also
coach. My support for PSV came about due to my numerous
trips to Europe, and specifically Eindhoven, over the
past few years. If I had spent time in Amsterdam or
Rotterdam I probably would have become a supporter of
Vitesse (:-)))) )...only joking. I do not jump on the 
bandwagon of winners just to root for a winner...I am a
fan of the Hartford Whalers NHL hockey team and anyone 
in the US can tell you that they basically suck this 
year..I still go to the games and support them...

PSV hasn't been playing great this year but so what? 
We all have our bad seasons...I agree with you though
about people jumping on the bandwagon of a winner just
to support a winner......

I tell you one thing...I have never experienced such
support and loyalty to a team over here. In my honest
opinion it adds something to the game...my wife went
with me to the PSV-Vitesse game in October (she also
loves the game) and couldn't believe the atmosphere.

We clearly are missing something over here.

Regards,


Jerry

    RE  -1
    
    Jerry,
    
    On which channel are you picking up these games ??
    From what I understand, you must be living in NH. (Who else would
    support the Whalers ??) 
    I know a friend who could be interested in this.
    
    Thanks a lot,	Eric  

    The Hartford Whalers televise on Sportschannel
    ( I live in Shrewsbury, Ma.) in the N.E. area.

    The Dutch football games are televised live on
    Sunday mornings @ 8:30am on ESPN-2......

    As far as the Whalers go I go back to their first
    year when they played in the old WHA in Boston.

 Jerry

    Thanks Jerry,
    
    Living here in France, Europe, my own problem is that I'm unable to
    watch baseball. But, on the other hand, I guess it saves me the pain
    of watching the Mariners and Mets lose...
    
    Regards, Eric

    Result from yesterday:
    
    Semi-final KNVB-beker:
    
    NAC		- Feijenoord	: 0 - 3
    
    Feijenoord will meet the winner of Ajax - NEC (that will be played
    march 20) in the final.
    
    Marcel
    
    P.S. Jerry, glad to hear you're a 'true' fan. I respect 'true' fans, no
    matter what club they support! Yeah, that also includes you, Ton.  :)

    Ton,
    
    what did I read in the paper ; is a FC Utrecht-player on trial for
    fighting and traffic-violence ? Is that the guy with the long hair and
    unpronouncable name ????? Nice players, you have.......he wasn't to
    friendly during the games, too.........
    
    Oh yeah, I think I find myself another club for playing, our new
    trainer is called Gert Adelaar ( you know him ? Played many games for
    DOS) 
                                                                     

          <<< Note 15.417 by UTROP1::HANSSEN_J "are you serious ?" >>>
                             -< FC Utrecht gossip >-

>>    Ton,
  
      John,

  
>>    what did I read in the paper ; is a FC Utrecht-player on trial for
>>    fighting and traffic-violence ? Is that the guy with the long hair and
>>    unpronouncable name ????? Nice players, you have.......he wasn't to
>>    friendly during the games, too.........
  
      The Telegraaf probably????? The only longhair guy who played for Utrecht,
      Aipassa, left the club to join Haarlem on loan together with Etienne
      Kelders.  

>>    Oh yeah, I think I find myself another club for playing, our new
>>    trainer is called Gert Adelaar ( you know him ? Played many games for
>>    DOS) 
  
      No I don't know him, I know Frans Adelaar who played for Utrecht, did
      he play for DOS amateurs or pro's???

                                                                   

    This weekends results:
    
    VVV		- Ajax		0 - 1
    NAC		- GA Eagles	2 - 2
    Cambuur	- MVV		2 - 1
    Volendam	- Groningen	1 - 0
    RKC (nr 18)	- PSV		1 - 1 , and again, PSV played BAD!
    Utrecht	- Vitesse	2 - 1 , congrats, Ton.
    Roda JC	- Sparta	4 - 0
    Twente	- Feijenoord	1 - 1 , losing points again.
    
    Top-scorers:   Jari Litmanen		23
    		   v. Hooydonck, Gilhaus	18
    		   Lammers			16
    
    I haven't seen the Ajax-game, it was friday, only the goal. People said
    that they did ease up a bit, to save themselves for thursday.
    PSV played bad again, real bad! Feijenoord lost, but 'could' have won
    (I didn't say 'should'). Utreg played well, causing Vitesse to only
    have gained 1 point (against PSV) in 5 (yes, 5!!!) matches.
    
    Anyone seen Parma embarrass Inter 4 - 1?
    They played great. Well John, we shouldn't underestimate those guys.
    Especially since Litmanen, Davids, Petersen and Oulida won't be playing
    on thursday. Well, Davids was a 'maybe'!
    Hope we do well on thursday and show the world the kind of football
    Ajax is all about.
    
    re.-? (Ton, I guess)
    You said that Ajax drew against an Italian sub-topper. For your
    information: Parma is THIRD, 1 point behind nr 2 with 1 game played
    less, so they could be SECOND. I think the number 2 in the Italian
    League isn't a 'sub-topper', as you said it. I think it's a team that
    could ANY team in Europe a tough time, especially considering the kind
    of football they play: OFFENSIVE, well maybe not as offensive as Ajax
    does, but offensive. I think that Parma in this shape is more of an
    opponent as Milan. Any comment on that, anyone?
    
    Marcel, he_who_thinx_this_championship_is_too_easy!
    Ajax will have to focus those last 9 games, don't think the
    Championship is in. Just keep playing like they have been, abd they
    will be the champions at the end of the season!

Yes PSV is sadly not up to form and playing poorly. I
believe at half time they were down 1-0. I haven't seen
a current table but I would assume that they are having
a hard time holding onto 3rd place.

I watched the FC Twente-Feijenoord game yesterday live
on TV. Seems that Feijenoord is going to have a great
deal of trouble making a run at AJAX if they continue
to play to ties.......I was happy to see Twente come
back and score that goal.....

Jerry

    Well Jerry, I happen to know the top 4, here it is:
    
    			Played	Points
    AJAX		25	44
    Feijenoord		25	38
    PSV			25	32
    Roda JC		25	30
    NAC		( I believe )
    Vitesse     ( I believe, they dropped 9 points in 5 games )
    
    So, as you can see, it'll be difficult to get near AJAX or even near
    Feijenoord, but they should manage to stay 3rd!
    
    Marcel, he_who_feels_sorry_for_Jerry's_PSV!

    re Jerry ; There's hope for you comin' up. The PSV manager has decided
    that PSV should be a topclub again within 2 or 3 years. 14 (!) players
    are requested to leave the club after this season ; only 7 or 8 may
    stay. Probably they are going to skim in Holland first ( that's why
    they are not loved here so much ; probably they buy half Ajax again...)
    and after that the rest of the world ( so watch out !!!). Players like
    Koeman, van Breukelen, van Aerle, van Tiggelen, Kalusha, Kieft, de Jong
    can (must) leave........
    
    John

    Well hello from sunny Mission Viejo California-training base for the
    USA national team
    
    As speculation grows as to who will make the final 22 for the USA squad
    --Ernie Stewart who plays for Willem ll is projected as a starting
    striker even though he hasn't shown much in the caps he has played
    other than his speed on the pitch.
    
    Can anyone enlighten us as to what type of year he is having--how is he
    playing, how does he rate when measured against other strikers in the
    Dutch leagues, etc
    
    thanks a lot
    
    rick toman 
    
    

    re -1 (Rick)
    Well, Rick, Ernie is doing quiet well here. Yesterday his team won from
    Feijenoord ( former dutch champion...;-)) and he played well. On the
    other hand he is not the player that would be elected in the dutch
    team. That is perhaps he plays for Willem II and not for one of the
    'greater' dutch teams like Ajax or PSV. Willem II belongs to the subtop
    of the Netherlands, always difficult to beat but misses just that
    little to be in he top. And Ernie is one of the players who belong to
    that ; nice football but not enough to reach for the top. Sometimes you
    can catch him on a day where he is untouchable, worldclass and
    sometimes he is nothing...........
    
    John

    Results this weekend :
    
    Vitesse - Roda		1-3
    Willem II - Feijenoord      2-1 (!)
    PSV - Utrecht		1-0
    
    And then there seemed to be also something like a semi Cupfinal :
    
    Ajax - NEC	1-2 ( oh, that hurts.........) No comment on that, only
    congrats to Tim's boys........
    

Watched the Ajax-NEC cup semi-final live over here in
the states....what a shocker to say the least. Clearly
Ajax did not look themselves and NEC had nothing to 
lose. Their attacking from the start made this an
entertaining match to watch. Like the announcer said,
"anything can happen in a cup match".

And PSV won as well! A nice weekend overall :-))))

Jerry

    re -1 Jerry, don't shout when I have a headache.....;-)
    
          And what is your eaction on the cleanup at PSV ?
    John (still suffering.......)

    re.-2
    Jerry, okay. So NEC beat Ajax. Big deal.
    They will be slaughtered by Feijenoord in the final, cause now they
    think they can beat everyone. I guess you didn't see 'Studio Sport'?
    Well, they were sitting there like they could do it anyday again.
    They forgot the fact that they just had been VERY lucky and that Ajax
    played one of the worst games ever.
    
    For God's sake, they got half an hour coverage in a 1.25 hour program
    for being extremely lucky ONCE. When they win the final, okay, but not
    just for reaching it.
    My prediction: Feijenoord - NEC : 4 - 1.
    
    And did you see Van Hanegem, when they asked him if he's gonna sign an
    extended contract (I think he should sign before sunday, or it might be
    too late, they might not want him anymore)? He said: 'As soon as my
    wife can get an agreement with Feijenoord!'. What a wuz!
    
    Marcel, he_who_hopes_for_Ajax_to_beat_Feijenoord_next_sunday!

    Was 15.429 entered by a NEC-supporter? Just curious!

           <<< Note 15.430 by ELIS::BOEREN "Vidi, vici, veni! :)" >>>
                              -< What was in it? >-

>>    Was 15.429 entered by a NEC-supporter? Just curious!

Nope it wasn't.

Your entry in .428 was and is pathetic, be a man and don't start picking
on a bunch of semi pro's who just beat the leader of the PTT Telecompetition.

They deserved it all the way and yes Ajax played lousy so they had it comming.

just hope Feyenoord can do Ajax on Sunday, I'm sorry that I can't watch it
'cause I'll be flying back from London where the mighty Blues then have beaten
the guys from East London.

T_

    re.-1
    What do you mean pathetic?
    It's pathetic of those guys to act like they could do it again anytime.
    They acted like they beat Ajax, while Ajax was playing their own
    football! They were just lucky! Darn lucky!
    
    And it's pathetic of Smeets and co to invite them in the studio.
    It's the semi-final, for god's sake!
    If they can beat Feijenoord in the final, Jansma can dedicate his whole
    show to NEC and may even show parts of the semi-final.
    But not now!
    
    If they can pull that stunt twice, they deserve it, but being lucky
    once doesn't qualify to dominate a whole episode of Studio Sport by my
    standards.
    
    And about Feijenoord - Ajax, why do you so desperately want Ajax to
    lose games? Is it a youth-trauma or something?
    I can understand people who are fans of a team, but not people who are
    only AGAINST a team. I just don't get it!
    
    Marcel

rep -1

Listen Honey I'm not gonna tell ya again. I thought JohnBoy Hanssen was a 
"wijsneus" but you beat everything. One week you talk about respect the next
week you are slagging off the team that beat yours.

Also you ask me about my trauma but first try to figure out you own!


T_ 

    Guys,
    
    As a regular reader of this topic, it appears to me that a number
    of it's subscribers are using it as a way of slagging each other
    off, isn't it time that we started some *healthy* discussions
    about football in Holland. There is more to football than just
    winning and losing the odd game. Instead of this all there is
    to read in here is what Utrecht thinks of Ajax, and visa versa,
    in other words just ordinary "mud-throwing" and general poor
    sportsmanship. 
    
    Delighted as I am about N.E.C.'s victory last Sunday, I do not
    start "crowing" about it, nor do I start blaming the opposition
    when we lose. There is not one team in Holland, in the whole world
    in fact, who does not go through a form crisis/bad period etc.
    Likewise when someone gets a kick out of general pi$$ taking
    when someone else's team is doing badly is, in my opinion, out of
    order, boring, and not even amusing.
    
    So lads, how about some decent noting according to the proper
    philosophy of the notesfile. Discussions that are worthy of
    this particular topic of a country who brought forward some of
    the best footballers in the world.
    
    Tim (check out the team photo of N.E.C)
    

    
>    So lads, how about some decent noting according to the proper
>    philosophy of the notesfile.
	Let me try...
	
	I read in a French paper that the "Dutch government" wanted to
	"reduce the number of football teams" in an effort to better 
	control the hooligan problem...
	Any comments?

								.Andre.

    re-2 That's the Tim who got my congrats !
    re-1 It's not new that a politician ( this time van Tijn, former Major
    of Amsterdam and now Minister of Internal affairs) is proposing
    something like that. I mean, the elections are soon so politicians
    start to do something by shouting all kind of proposals. So on the
    moment I worry not to much. And honestly I haven't read to much about
    it. I only head on the radio saying that in his proposal he wanted to
    remove all the clubs except Ajax......;-) Against who do we have to
    play then .........
    
    Johnnyboy Wijsneus

    RE.434 Tim
    I agree with you. I congratulated Ton on their last victory, but he
    keeps saying these strange things. Like you, I can't understand what
    people like Ton have against a club, in this case Ajax.
    Off course I'm happy for NEC, but it also hurts for me, being an
    Ajax-fan. I was just saying that they have the final to play yet, and
    let's wait cheering until that's over. Then we can cheer as much as we
    want!
    
    RE.433 Ton
    Eeeh, I'm fond of you too, but I wouldn't go as far as calling you
    'honey'. If you insist on calling me that, please abbreviate it into H,
    will you?   :)
    Let's stop arguing, like Tim says.
    Just don't be TOO happy when Ajax loses or plays bad. Like I said, I
    congratulated you on Utrecht's victory the other time, remember?
    
    RE.-1
    The blood flows where it can't run, or in dutch:
    Het bloed stroomt toch waar het niet gaan kan, he?
    Misschien kunnen we dan meedoen in een Europese League!  :)
    Maybe then we can participate in a European League!
    I got a little carried away, writing in dutch, so I put the translation
    underneath it.
    
    RE.-2
    I think hooliganism should be fought! It's not good for soccer, sport
    in general or Holland. Look at what happened after the 'Heisel-drama'.
    All England suffered from what a couple of hooligans did!
    It's a hard problem to solve, but it can be done. Not 1,2,3, but
    stretched out over a longer period of time, it should be an achievable
    goal. Nice word-joke, huh?
    
    Marcel

Marcel, Ton et al.;

Not sure if you know the term underdog but it is a term
we use in the states for a team that is not expected to
do well when they play a more formidible team such as
the Ajax-NEC game. I was not trying to "slag" Ajax with
my header.

In the States we have a habit of rooting for the under-
dog when our favorite team is not involved, thus my 
happiness over the Ajax-NEC results...that an underdog 
won. And yes Ajax were not themselves but so be it. A 
good analogy for us is the results from the 2nd round 
of our national college basketball playoffs were last 
weekend Boston College beat the number 1 team North 
Carolina.....you should have seen, heard and read the 
glee from all over the nation touting BC.

As for PSV? Just hoping they qualify for Europe next 
year........

Yours in football,

Jerry

PS. This Sunday we get the Ajax-Feyenoord game (I don't
know where it is being played) and I will be rooting
for Ajax! 

rep -1

Jerry,

the Feyenoord - Ajax game is moved from the afternoon to the evening 'cause
it's life on Dutch telly, this probably means that you will receive it at night?

T_

    re-2 Jerry
    Thanks for your sympathy for Ajax next sunday. I haven't the faintest
    idea what it will be like ; both teams are not in shape the last couple
    of weeks........
    PSV however has a tough job to stay in the race for European football.
    You can say that Ajax and Feijenoord ( unless they keep loosing points)
    are reasonably sure for European football. For the other places ( I
    guess two) there are a number of clubs very close to each other ; NAC,
    Roda JC, Vitesse, perhaps even Willem II, PSV and if they win the
    Cupfinal NEC. And what effect has it on the players who are told to
    leave next year to fight for their club ? 
    
    re-1 Ton; don't make it too blue this weekend, remember that our color
    is still red and not blue yet ( yes, I now you like Chelsea too...)
    ;-)
    
    John

  If the Ajax-Feyenoord game has been moved to a night
  game then it will not be televised in the States. The
  network has a given time slot of 8:30am to 10:30am 
  which translates to 2:30pm to 4:30pm your time meaning
  they will substitute another game or re-play last 
  week's Ajax-NEC cup semi-final. Any idea of the up-
  coming fixtures for this Sunday....more importantly
  what are the 2:30 games??

Jerry

    Feyenoord - Ajax   2 - 1
    
    0 - 1  Kanu
    -------------
    1 - 1  De Wolf
    2 - 1  Heus (Penalty kick)
    

    What is this?
                                    -< Yes !!!!!!! >-
    What a title.
    And just that one result.
    No comments?
    I congratulate Feijenoord for winning. They probably deserved to, but
    the referee had a great deal to do with the final result. There were
    (at least) 3 (yes, 3!!!) real penalties for Ajax, and he hesitated not
    once!
    
    In the 3rd minute, the first one.
    In the second half, Kanu was kicked down, and later De Wolf threw
    someone to the ground.
    
    And, what's his name, not Gunntlaugson, but the other Fin, kicked down
    3 Ajax-players, and injured 2 of them, within 5 minutes. No card drawn.
    Danny Blind makes a foul: yellow card. This SU@KS!!
    
    I don't know what's wromg with the referees in Holland, but they all
    seem to be against Ajax. BTW, I didn't want to sound so pathetic as it
    does when I re-read it, but it's true!
    
    Other results: Roda JC   -  PSV     :  4 - 0    Too bad, Jerry.
                   RKC	     -  Utecht  :  I don't know the exact result,
    but I believe Utrecht lost. Sorry Ton.  :(
    
    I don't know the others. But I'm sure someone will.
    
    Marcel, he_who_is_kinda_sad_because_of_the_bad_referees_in_Holland!

I'm in shock with PSVs result from this weekend.......
perhaps Europe will be out of their reach unless they
can score some goals and prevent the other teams from
doing the same :-(((((

Ah yes Marcel, those referees.....I've attended 3 
matches this year and each one had at least one highly
questionnable call..all 4 calls were against PSV at
Philips Stadion no less....one was a penalty kick given
to Vitesse very late in the game where the Vitesse
player was fouled a clear 2 yards outside the penalty
area and was rewarded with a penalty kick. I spent one
Sunday afternoon watching Overloon play another team
in the rain and fog and couldn't believe the calls (or
lack thereof) the ref was making....I even have some
of them on tape as I was visiting the War Musuem and 
had my camcorder with me. Some of the fans wanted to
see the tapes after.......clearly the ref missed a good
game (2-2 at the end).

Alas we received a replay of the Willem II - Feyenoord
game played a couple of weeks ago :-((((((.

Jerry

    Results last weekend :
    Feijenoord - Ajax		2-1 :-(
    VVV-Sparta			1-4
    Cambuur-Vitesse		1-3
    NAC-Willem II		1-1
    Volendam-Heerenveen		3-0
    Twente-MVV			4-2
    Groningen-Go Ahead		3-1 (3 red cards for Go Ahead)
    RKC-Utrecht			3-0
    Roda-PSV			4-0

    Result thursday, 31 March
    
    Twente - Willem II	4-0

    Some more results:
    
    PSV won with 2-0 from ???, and Feijenoord drew 1-1 (or 0-0?) against
    MVV (right?). NAC - Ajax was cancelled because of the rainfall.
    
    Table:
    Name               Played Won Drawn Lost Points Diff.
    
    Ajax (A'dam)	 26    21    2    3    44   67-19
    Feijenoord (R'dam)   28    15   11    2    41   5?-2?
    PSV                  28                    36
    Roda JC (Kerkrade)   27                    34
    NAC (Breda)
    
    Marcel 

    PSV won with 2-0 from CAMBUUR
    

    And Feijenoord drew in Maastricht against MVV and MVV should have won
    from Feijenoord ! Tonight Ajax-NAC, live on dutch tele ( at least the
    second half !)
    
    John
    

    Yesterday, the nr 1 (Ajax) played against the nr 5 (NAC). The
    end-result was: 5 - 0!!!! It was 4 - 0 at half-time, and they scored
    one after the break, and then they just relaxed and ended the game
    easily.
    Kanu played another great match, and Overmars was unstoppable. Well, he
    was stopped once, and awarded a penalty-kick.
    Also Petersen and Pettersson played very well.
    
    The entire tabel follows:
    Team	Played	Won	Drawn	Lost	Points	For	Against
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    Ajax 	27	22	2	3	46	72	19
    Feijenoord	28	15	11	2	41	48	21
    PSV		28	13	10	5	36	46	27
    Roda JC	28	15	5	8	35	48	28
    Vitesse	28	15	3	10	33	57	32
    FC Twente	28	12	9	7	33	46	31
    NAC		28	13	7	8	33	52	40
    Willem II	28	12	6	10	30	42	35
    MVV		29	10	8	11	28	39	48
    Sparta	28	10	7	11	27	47	47
    GA Eagles	29	10	6	13	26	39	44
    FC Utrecht	29	9	6	14	24	35	55
    Volendam	28	10	3	15	23	37	46
    Heerenveen	28	7	9	12	23	26	50
    VVV		28	6	9	13	21	23	50
    Groningen	28	6	6	16	18	31	57
    RKC		28	4	7	17	15	28	55
    Cambuur	28	4	6	18	14	22	53
    
    Ajax needs 7 more points from 7 games to be the next champ.
    No prob!
    
    Marcel.	

    Result yesterday :
    
    Ajax - NAC		5-0 !
    
    Goals : Rijkaard, Petterson ( not deserved penalty), Overmars, Kanu (
    beauty !) and Petterson. Ajax on the old fashioned way, hopefully back
    again ! Blind, Rijkaard, Overmars and Kanu were fabulous. Especially
    Kanu, 17 years old, is a promise for the future ; the way he made that
    fourth goal was great. Acting to shoot, slip the bal over the legs of
    two players, sliding the ball along the keeper and then shooting the
    ball between two defenders......lovely !
    
    John

    What games have to be done before the race of the championship for Ajax
    and Feijenoord :
    
    Ajax :
    
    Home : Groningen,Heerenveen and Twente
    Out  : Go Ahead, Roda JC, Volendam ( coming Sunday) and Willem II
    
    Feijenoord :
    
    Home : Groningen, PSV, Roda JC and Sparta ( this weekend)
    Out  : Utrecht and Vitesse
    
    John

    results last weekend :
    
    VVV - PSV		0-3 
    Twente - Vitesse	0-1 ( game of the missed chances..)
    Feijenoord - Sparta	5-1
    NAC - MVV		1-5
    RKC - Roda		1-1
    Groningen - Willem	4-1
    Heerenveen - Go Ahead 3-2
    Cambuur - Utrecht	2-1
    
    Tomorrow, in the Olympic Stadium Amsterdam :
    Volendam - Ajax

          <<< Note 15.453 by UTROP1::HANSSEN_J "are you serious ?" >>>
                           -< results last weekend >-

  >>  results last weekend :
  >>    
  >>  Tomorrow, in the Olympic Stadium Amsterdam :
  >>  Volendam - Ajax

      1 - 0 to Volendam, Louis won't be pleased.

T_

    re-1 And Louis is not the only one......Only positive thing was that
    Litmanen and George were back again ( late second half). But
    unfortunately they couldn't tear down the Volendam wall..... Volendam
    only once had the ball, when they made there off-side goal.....

rep -1

John,

I only saw the goal so I can'y comment on the rest but the goal didn't look
off-side to me.

T_

    Some results of this week(end):
    
    PSV won on thursday. Don't remember against who or the result.
    Yesterday:
    Utrecht	- Venlo		2-3
    Vitesse	- Feijenoord	1-2   Vitesse should have won 4-2 or 5-2.
    					Lucky Feijenoord again.
    Ajax	- Twente	6-0   Yes, you're reading it correct, 6-0.
    Beautiful 30 metre first goal of Pettersson, quickly followed by a
    goalie-blunder, scored by De Boer. 2-0 within 10 minutes.
    Litmanen played well, scored a penalty. Overmars was being a little
    egoistic, but they played well again.
    Ajax has to take 5 points out of a possible 10 in 5 matches to be the
    93/94 champion.
    
    Next week:
    PSV		- Feijenoord
    GA Eagles	- Ajax
    
    The one thing I don't understand is why Ajax kicks bu++ against the
    numbers 5 (first NAC 5-0, and now Twente 6-0) but loses to the number
    16, Volendam. Too bad.
    
    Marcel,
    he_who_will_be_cheering_at_the_leidscheplein_at_the_end_of_the_season.

We had the Ajax-Twente match televisied in the states
and from the previous notes Twente didn't come to play
football :-))). Petterson's goal was a beauty, no 
questions about it and Litmanen had several chances to
score more than one goal.

Next week we get Feijenoord-PSV :-)))))))))))))))))))))

Marcel;

I have to ask this question...why does Ajax continue to
play in Demeers stadium? I believe that it seats some-
where around 20,000+ fans but both Feijenoord and PSV
play in larger stadiums. Surely a team of Ajax stature
could easily draw 30,000+ per game. I know that the
Olympic stadium isn't too far from Demeers..why don't
they use that or just expand their present facility
like PSV is? Curious.

Jerry_who_is_hoping_for_PSV_to_be_in_Europe_next_season

rep -1

Jerry,

Ajax are building a new ground on the skirts of Amsterdam,, capacity 50000+
I believe, all-seater and all roofed.

The reason they don't move to the Olympic Stadion is fairly simple, it's rotten
to the bone and parts of it are already out 'cause it's dangerous to go there,
also only a small part is roofed so 9 outa 10 times you would be watching
them in the rain and get very wet and all that for at least 50 guilders.

T_

Ton,

Sounds like Ajax command a relatively high price for a
match. Were you serious about 50 guilders for a ticket?
If I remember PSV was getting around 40 guilders for a
premium seat (if you could get one) which equates to
$24 US (approximately). I know that in Scotland when-
ever Rangers come into town the home team ups its
ticket prices to take advantage of the draw. Should be
nice with a new stadium......I have been by the Olympic
stadium once 2 years ago but was never inside. That ex-
plains why one never sees any matches being played 
there.

Jerry

    Jerry,
    
    As far as I know, the prices in De Meer are the same as everywhere else
    in Holland. About PSV - Feijenoord, I hope PSV will win, partly because
    then Ajax is even surer about becoming the next champion.
    
    Ajax' new stadium will be ready in 95 or 96, I believe.
    It will have the possibility of being completely covered by a roof, so
    it's like you play inside.
    
    Marcel.

    It's a bit quiet in Holland this morning, eh lad????
    
    Ray ;v)

            <<< Note 15.462 by IRNBRU::HOWARD "vamos a la playa" >>>
                 -< in case you didn't hear, Dutch 0 - 1 Irl >-

>>    It's a bit quiet in Holland this morning, eh lad????
>>    
>>    Ray ;v)

CU in the States this summer


T_ :-)

    Re :  CU in the States this Summer.
    
    
    I doubt it T_,  the way your boys played last night they're unlikely to
    reach the second round !  I've seen more imagination and commitment in
    our run-arounds on Thursday lunchtime (and that includes today's game
    even though we didn't play cos of the weather). 
    
    Still, at least you saw first hand how it should be done ;-)
    
    Jerry.

    RE.-1
    Eeeeh, Jerry, I could say it were just tactics, but we played a bad
    game. So what? At least we attacked!
    Let's just hope that we will do better once we're there.
    The games before the EC of '88 didn't go well either, but we won it!
    And beat you, 1-0, for a place in the semi-finals, if I recall
    correctly!    :)
    
    Marcel.
    P.S. I assumed you are Irish, otherwise, replace 'you' in the last
    sentence by 'the Irish'.

    re -1,2,3,etc
    Ajax gets a new stadium, probably partly roofed. But all the spectators
    kan be kept dry. Content ; 60000 people. Price of tickets nowadays :
    between 35 and 90 guilders.
    The Olympic Stadium is indeed used for games were more people are
    expected then the 20000. But it is to old and rotten to be continued.
    It was a big discussion about sentiments and so but last year Ajax
    finally got permission to build their new stadium/business center.
    What happens with the Olympic Stadium is not decided yet.....probably
    torn down and replaced by houses.
    
    Did Ireland win last week ? I didn't see the game or heard anything
    about it. Was locked away in a hotel last week. Well, congrats to
    Ireland ! However I have the feeling that the dutch don't play their
    best in friendlies ( and sometimes not during tournaments......)
    
    Results last weekend :
    Go Ahead - Ajax	0-3
    Feijenoord - PSV	just before the game started heaven was opened and
    the stadium was overflooded with rain ( water). Cancelled......A sign
    from heaven ??????
    VVV - Roda		2-2
    RKC - Cambuur	3-0
    Twente - Utrecht	1-0 (last minute goal...)
    Groningen - MVV	3-2
    
    Excitement on the tale of the division. Big chances for getting out are
    Cambuur, RKC, Groningen, VVV and Utrecht !
    
    John

rep -1

John,

actualy it was the 98th minute or so but then what do you expect of ref called
Luinge. Only one team goed down directly, the nr 16 & 17 play 
promotion/relegation with the period-winners from the first division.

If Utrecht have to play this they'll probably get relegated and will follow
the same route as Den Haag and Fortuna did in the past.

Utrecht are playing Feyenoord at home and NAC away while Groningen play
Feyenoord, Ajax, Sparta and Vitesse. Both clubs face difficult games and
Groningen are now trailling 2 points, if they can come level than they
have the advantage of better goal difference and we will have to play
P/R games.

Just hope it won't come to that otherwise we'll have to miss out on those
nice Utrecht - Ajax games.

T_

    reply -1  In this time of the competition it all matters if the
    champion is known and how safe the other clubs play. Looking the clubs
    you are facing it will be tough for both sides..... Last chance you can
    grab is against the winners' from the first League. And as you say that
    will be tough too.....at the end of a competition.
    Yeah, I would miss the Ajax-Utrecht games, but sheer up Ton, the
    competition isn't over yet !
    
    John

Anxiously looked forward to viewing this game but when
game time approached we were given Vitesse-Feijenoord
which I knew was a taped match so it was off to brewing
beer. No mention was made that the Feijenoord-PSV game
was postponed due to weather. 
So when is the match to be played?

Jerry

rep -1

Jerry,

it's scheduled for the 3th of May but things look a little dodgy as
Feyenoord is rebuilding the Kuip into an all-seater and all covered
ground and construction work has already started. Just too bad that
they didn't show you the waterloged pitch, it was unbelieveable. The dug-
outs were filled with water and 3/4 of the pitch wasn't visable anymore
just water water water.


T_

rep -3

John,

I'm hoping ajax will drop a point or two so they won't become champs
(they will be no doubt) before they play against Groningen.

It doens't make sense to me that the last games in the League aren't played
on the same date and the same time as it always was. If Ajax become champs
on Sunday they'll have to play Groningen of the Thuesday and Groningen will
be damned eager to get at least a point while Ajax will still be getting
sober.

Just hoping and praying it won't come to that and that both Feyenoord and
NAC will "help" us getting at least two points out of the last two games,
after all both coaches are from Utrecht and both teams have players that
come from here.


T_

    results last wednesday :
    
    Roda - Ajax			1-2 !
    Groningen - Feijenoord      2-2.
    
    That means that Ajax is sure of championship. Feijenoord can get even
    with Ajax but we scored better !!!!! Next sunday hopefully the last
    points ! And Ton, Ajax has to show it's the champion and also win the
    games after this ! We, the fans, deserve that ! And Groningen will be
    beaten !
    
    John

some results from last weekend

Ajax - Heerenveen  2-1  Ajax pick up the title again, still they had to wait 
                        4 years for it to happen again.

FC Utrecht - Feyenoord  0-0  The point we needed stayed at New Galgenwaard and
                             it could have been two if the ref awarded us a
                             penalty after Bijl was fouled in the box.

Cambuur - FC VVV  2-1 This puts VVV under Utrecht yessssssssssssss but only
                      on goal difference.

PSV - NAC  3-1  PSV going for thirth place and leaving NAC with virtual no
                change of going into Europe next season.


Sparta - FC Groningen  3-0  Thanks to Han Berger (former Utrecht coach of the
                            top team we had in the early eighties) and his crew


Intresting games the comming days:

Ajax - FC Groningen
NAC - FC Utrecht
FC VVV - RKC
FC Groningen - Vitesse

Cambuur are already relegated.


T_

    YYYYEEEESSSSSS, we are where we belong again: At the top of the dutch
    league, and dutch champion, for the 24th time!
    
    Well, of course, it was just a matter of time the last few months, but
    I'm glad we didn't give it away again.
    
    Did I hear it right that Ajax will not have to play 'voorrondes' to get
    into the Champions League, based on results in Europe of the last few
    years? Well, the big money awaits us now:
    - 3.5 million for starters,
    - 3 home games for sure
    - more money for every goal scored and point won.
    
    Too bad Pettersson leaves at the end of the season.
    Jari should have scored that penalty-kick, but he's forgiven.  :)
    Let's hope we can maintain this kind of football for a couple years,
    and we just might be champions again next year.
    
    Marcel

    
    Has there even been another champion than Ajax, Feyenoord and PSV ?
    
    Heiko

    Belated congatulations to Ajax...I watched the game and felt that it
    was beginning to look more like a circus than a football match. Ajax
    finally took charge in the second half. The parachutists jumping into
    the stadium during play was a disgrace.
    
    At least PSV is holding onto 3rd place :-)))))
    
    Jerry

    Ajax - FC Groningen 0 - 2     (how's that for a champion !!)
    			
    Huizing 0 - 1
    Hammink 0 - 2
    Also Wilson mist a penalty-kick.
    
    Feyenoord - PSV  2 - 1
             
    Hoekstra 0 - 1
    De Wolf  1 - 1
    De Wolf  2 - 1

    re-1 I have never been so angry on Ajax as last game against Groningen.
    OK they had a party in their legs but this was a disgrace. Not nice for
    Petterson in his last game, not nice for fans who came to celebrate and
    not nice for the competition ! Victims probably VVV and RKC. And
    perhaps even Utrecht. This sunday everything can happen there...
    
    Degradation program :
    
    NAC - FC Utrecht
    VVV - RKC
    
    
    re Heiko ; In earlier days there were some other champions like
    Fortuna, Rapid JC, AZ67, FC Twente ( not sure). But you are right
    Heiko, the last 20 years it was only Ajax and Feijenoord and later PSV.
    
    John

Finally the Dutch Premier League has come to a splashing end, Cambuur are
relegated and VVV and RKC play promotion/relegation games against six 1st
division sides.

Results (as far as I know)

VVV - RKC  0-2
Willem II - Ajax  2-1
Volendam - PSV  3-2 (not sure but Volendam won!)
Feyenoord - Roda JC  2-1 (there goes Europe for the Southeners)
FC Groningen - Vitesse  0-0 (an awful game were both teams helped eachother
                             out, Vitesse into Europe Groningen stay-up)
NAC - FC Utrecht  2-2  (Utrecht twice took the lead but NAC leveled twice,
                        NAC gave Utrecht a real hard time but we overcame it
                        and stay up)

Wednesday the cup-final between Feyenoord and NEC will take place, if 
Feyenoord win then FC Twente will also be in Europe next season.

T_

    
    Re. -1
    
    The cup final is on Thursday at 18.00 hrs and will be shown live
    on TV
    
    
    Tim
    

Saw the replay of the Dutch Cup final on Sunday morning.
Congrates to Feijenoord for its 2-1 victory over NEC,
however, the play leading to the penalty kick early in
the match certainly looked offsides..........NEC played
well...I wish them luck in their upcoming promotional
tournament..

Jerry

PS. Who went down from Div.I, who is playing in Europe
next year, and who is coming up from Div. II?

rep -1

Jerry,

in short:

EC I    Ajax
EC II   Feyenoord
EC III  Vitesse, PSV, FC Twente

Relegated:

Cambuur


Promoted:

Dordrecht 90

Tommorrow promotion/relegation will start with two groups of four
team with the winners getting promoted to the Premier Division.
Premier sides in here are VVV and RKC, 1st Div sides are Ado den Haag,
NEC, Telstar, Heracles, Graafschap and AZ.

Keep ya posted.

T_

Ton;

Thanks for the nice snapshot of the promotion/relegat-
ion process that's ongoing in Holland. Look forward to
the final results......

Jerry

After two games this are the tables in the P/R competition:

Group I

AZ      4 pts
RKC     2 pts
ADO     2 pts
Telstar 0 pts


Group II

NEC         4 pts
Heracles    2 pts
VVV         2 pts
Graafschap  0 pts

Things are very close and all teams with points can still go up, it;s
already over for the teams with 0 points.


T_

After three games this are the tables in the P/R competition:

Group I

AZ      4 pts
RKC     4 pts
ADO     2 pts
Telstar 2 pts


Group II

NEC         6 pts
Heracles    2 pts
VVV         2 pts
Graafschap  2 pts


T_

Some news:

In group B NEC have gained promotion to the Premier Division, VVV was already
relegated. In group A AZ and RKC are having the best papers but I'll put my 
money on RKC.

Ruud Gullit won't go to the States to compete in the WC 1994, he has left 
the group this morning and is refusing any comment about it. He will comment
after the tournament, Dick Advocaat has urged him to speak now so it can
get out of the world before the tournament. Gullit made strong comments on
the playing style of Holland against Scotland. He urged Holland should play
a more defensive style.

T_

    Wow! That's some news...I know Gullit was very keen to play in the
    World Cup.

>>> Gullit made strong comments on the playing style of Holland against 
>>> Scotland. He urged Holland should play a more defensive style.
                                          
    
    I can't believe that a Dutch footballer would say that. Maybe Holland 
    will do better without him if that is going to be his attitude. He is a
    great player but his heart doesn't seem to be in it anymore....
    
    Ray....

    Holland without Gullit in his form is pure devaluation. 
    And he didn't say what his real reasons are ; he said more about the
    Holland - Scotland game. Saying that he wanted a more defensive style
    as reason is pure speculation ! After the tournament he will say what
    the real reason(s) was (were)..... Anyway the way he played against
    Scotland, his ambition to play ...it's all over now. The heart is out
    of the dutch team..........
    
    John

What about Denmark in the European Championships ? Didn't they win even without
Michael Laudrup. 
He too had a disagreement with the coach and abandoned the team. 

It ain't over 'till it's over !

Peter.

    Goddamit man, Ireland will be without Niall Quinn *and* David O'Leary
    and I don't hear them complaining ;-)
    
    
    
    
    Although, I have heard a few people complaining that Ronnie Pot Belly
    *is* in the party!
    
    Dom  

    Is this business with Gullit a re-occurence of the old problems he had
    with previous coaches. I thought that he (and some of the other
    superstars in the Netherlands team) had got their own way and Cruyf was
    taking them through the WC. Is Gullit arguing with Cruyf now? If so
    then he must think he is bigger than the team - he is acting very
    selfishly, more like a schoolboy who can't have his own way rather than
    a mature intelligent man that I thought he was!
    
    Paul.
     

Cruyf isn't managing the WC team. He didn't get his way either.
The Guy who brought them through the qulification still has the job as far as I
know. 

Peter.

>Cruyf isn't managing the WC team. He didn't get his way either.
    
    That would explain a lot!!
    
    Paul.

    John,
    
    I'm sure that we (Ireland) could come to some arrangement whereby we 
    loan you Ronnie Whelan to fill in for Gullit.
    
    Perhaps one possible agreement would be that if we give you Ronnie, and
    subsequently we meet in the later stages of the WC, then you have to
    guarantee that you will play Ronnie in midfield for the full 90 
    minutes ;-))
    
    Just an idea,
    
    Jerry.

    I just heard on the radio that Marco van Basten will probably play for
    the dutch team, when they have gotten through the first round.
    By that time, he should be all fit again!
    
    Marcel

Played last night:

Holland 7  Hungary 1


Advocaat yesterday evening after the match admitted that he is planning on 
bringing Marco van Basten to the States, it depends on a last test he will
have today.

keep ya posted.


T_

    re.496 Jerry,
    I like this exchange program ; let us take van Basten and Ronny
    Whelan.....someone has to push the wheelchair anyway....;-)
    Who do you like to have from us ( or more a financial injection ?)
    No, I don't think that van Basten will play with the dutch team. I
    think they ask him more as a coach. Gullit will be probably replaced by
    Bosman who postponed his holiday already.
    Van Basten will hopefully start football in the next season with Milan.
    
    John
    
    Only the idea that van Basten could play in later stages.....and what
    after two draws against Marocco and Saoudi-Arabia ans a loss from
    Belgium ?????? Unless I read the predictions of Jerry and Patrick
    correctly ; loosing and still be in the final.....;-)

    Re: -1
>    I like this exchange program ; let us take van Basten and Ronny
>    Whelan.....someone has to push the wheelchair anyway....;-)
>    Who do you like to have from us ( or more a financial injection ?)
    
    
    Sorry John, I'm just not sure any of your boys are good enough to make
    our squad. Perhaps you could send us a full set of Orange jerseys for
    our next trip to Wembley instead ;-)
    
    Jerry.

    re-1 Jerry
    
    Well Jerry, you just have to wait untill after the tournament.....
    If the Netherlands drop out quickly, our Orange Jersey-facturers will
    have loads of it left....;-) Not to mention all these T-shirts with
    Ruud Gullit and Holland World Champion on it....;-)
    
    John
    
    Oh yes, I don't think that no one of us is suitable for Ireland. Take
    for example Jan Wouters. He fits in all the criteria :
    He is ugly, tough player who runs a lot, doesn't think much while
    playing and his attitude against English ( elbows). Suits perfectly to
    me ? ;-) And then we have van Gobbel.........

    PSV is on the transfer market. Untill now they have already contracted
    three players :
    Nilis from Anderlecht (?), Pahlplatz from FC Twente and Vink from Genoa
    
    John

    re-2 Oh, sorry to forget to mention the most important criterium :
         They have a heart for football !

    
    Re.-2
    
>>    Nilis from Anderlecht (?)
         
    Yes, he's (was) from Anderlecht, unfortunately. Forward player, 2nd
    best in the Belgian Championship with 23 goals in championship, 6 in
    the Euro-Champions league and many others in the Belgian Cup.
    However I dunno how he'll fit into Demos team. He didn't really like
    him when Demos was Anderlecht's trainer (A Euro final mist followed by
    no World Cup).
    
    Philippe 
    
                                 

    
    Hi,
    
    My name is Koos van Dam.
    I'm new to this conference, since it's been a few years since I worked
    for DEC. I've been trying to keep up to date with Dutch Football,
    having moved from Holland to the US in 1990. I was pleased to find
    the latest news here. Thank you all !
    So, how did van Basten's test go ? I would very much like to see him
    play. That is, as long as his heart is in it. Like Gullit, these first-
    class players tend to become primadonna's, who cry when they don't get
    their own choice of hotel and find that the towels don't have their
    initials on it. If the attitude is wrong, I prefer
    not to see them play at all and give the new talents a chance. In the
    previous WC we had the same problems and the team and trainer spend
    more energy argueing than playing the f...... game. I really hope it will
    be different this time and if anyone has an 'attitude', screw them and
    kick them off the team. I'd like to feel proud about our team and
    I know that they can beat the rest !! 'Cause when they play their
    brilliant attacking style, quick switching, tough and ball controlling
    kinda play, there ain't nobody touching our boys !
                         
    Aanvalluuuuuuuuuh !

van Basten is out, Johnny Bosman is in.


T_

    RE.-2
    Welcome back, Koos, was it?
    
    Like .-1 mentioned, Van Basten will not play. :(
    AC Milan didn't give him permission.
    
    RE.a few back.
    PSV contracted Vink? Is that for sure?
    Another ex-Ajax player going to PSV?
    Why doesn't Ajax buy him back?
    Anybody know what players (if any) are leaving and coming to Ajax?
    John perhaps?
    
    Marcel

heard a rumour that Roy was in England today having talks with Frank Clark about
the proposed move.  Foggia are selling at around 3 million pounds with Roy on a
million pound contract over a three year period. Looks like a good buy for
Forest.


GS in Dublin

    
    Hi,
    
    Koos here. It's a week before the WK and I'm still not impressed with
    the amount of pre-World Cup coverage given by the americans here. A few
    commercials, a fair amount of t-shirts, a few half hour programs. Well,
    the US is planning for a 12-team Major League Soccer program for 1995.
    I hope the World Cup will raise enough enthousiasm. One cannot just
    'import' a sport.
    
    So, van Basten and Gullit are out. :-(   Would someone be able to tell me
    the names that are currently in the Dutch selection ?
    
    Well, I got the Dutch flag flying, I got my 'Beware Of The Lion' shirt
    ready and the brewskies are cooling in the fridge....let the games
    begin !
    
    Koos
    

Koos,

here are some of the names:

Ed de Goey
Theo Snelders
Edwin vd Sar
Frank de Boer
Ulrich van Gobbel
John de Wolf
Stan Valkx
Jan Wouters
Wim Jonk
Ronald de Boer
Dennis Bergkamp
Brian Roy
Marc Overmars
Gaston Taument
John Bosman

Could some of the other Dutch fill in the gapes.

T_

    
The Netherlands:

 1.  Ed de Goey                - G - Feyenoord
 2.  Frank de Boer             - D - Ajax
 3.  Frank Rijkaard            - M - Milan
 4.  Ronald Koeman             - D - Barcelona
 5.  Rob Witschge              - M - Feyenoord
 6.  Jan Wouters               - M - PSV Eindhoven
 7.  Marc Overmars             - F - Ajax
 8.  Wim Jonk                  - M - Inter
 9.  Ronald de Boer            - F - Ajax
 10.  Dennis Bergkamp           - F - Inter
 11.  Bryan Roy                 - F - Foggia
 12.  John Bosman               - M - Anderlecht
 13.  Edwin van der Sar         - G - Ajax
 14.  Ulrich van Gobbel         - D - Feyenoord
 15.  Danny Blind               - M - Ajax
 16.  Arthur Numan              - M - PSV Eindhoven
 17.  Gaston Taument            - F - Feyenoord
 18.  Stan Valckx               - D - Sporting Lisboa
 19.  Peter van Vossen          - F - Ajax
 20.  Aron Winter               - M - Lazio
 21.  John de Wolf              - D - Feyenoord
 22.  Theo Snelders             - G - Aberdeen

National coach: Dick Advocaat 
    

    RE.-1
    
    That should be:
    
    3. Frank Rijkaard          - M - Ajax
    
    Marcel

Unfortunately I wasn't able to watch the entire match yesterday but what I
saw was some exciting football from both sides. I almost didn't recognize PSV
what with their slight change in strip and new players...nice to see Renaldo
and Luc Nillis start paying dividends. Who is PSV's new keeper? Stanley *****.

Vitesse played some exciting ball as well (3-2 PSV in second half when I had
to leave) with Gillhaus (sp?) and their number 11 who's name escapes me at the
moment.

Look forward to seeing the final score. Judging from this game PSV has its 
scoring punch back in place, now they need to shore up their defense :-))))

Jerry

Friendly result from yesterday


FC Groningen 5  Barcelona 5

Groningen led 4-0 by half-time, three goals for Barca by Jordi Cruijff, yes
the son off!


On Monday Barca will play the fabulous U's.


T_

================================================================================
Note 428.2                     Dutch League 94/95                         2 of 7
EVTDD1::LAFONTAINE "A flame about this high"          7 lines   8-AUG-1994 10:59
                     -< Ronaldo signs with PSV Eindhoven >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Ronaldo, 18 year old who was with Brazil in the US, has signed with PSV
    Eindhoven.
    
    His first quote: 'I'll be better than Romario'
    
    Have it your way, son...
    

================================================================================
Note 428.3                     Dutch League 94/95                         3 of 7
UTROP1::JANSEN "Reading Blondes have more fun"       10 lines   8-AUG-1994 11:11
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Result from this weekend


PSV 0 Barca 1

PSV who completely outplayed and may thanks Mr. Cruijff's boys for not
taking them apart.

T_

================================================================================
Note 428.4                     Dutch League 94/95                         4 of 7
TRUCKS::WARDR                                         4 lines  15-AUG-1994 08:59
                                   -< Ajax >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    What were all these Ajax matches I saw on the Dutch telly at the
    weekend ?!?
    
    Ray

Note 428.5                     Dutch League 94/95                         5 of 7
UTROP1::HANSSEN_J "are you serious ?"                 5 lines  15-AUG-1994 10:39
                   -< Some friendlies, next week Supercup ! >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    re -1 Ajax is playing some friendlies or tournaments. The last I know
    was against Brugge ; I believe 3-3 ! Last week we lost from Anderlecht
    during the open day 2-3. Not so interesting, yet.
    
    John

================================================================================
Note 428.6                     Dutch League 94/95                         6 of 7
UTROP1::JANSEN "Reading Blondes have more fun"        6 lines  22-AUG-1994 09:21
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Result of the Supercup played yesterday in Amsterdam

Ajax 3  Feyenoord 0


T_

================================================================================
Note 428.7                     Dutch League 94/95                         7 of 7
UTROP1::JANSEN "Reading Blondes have more fun"       14 lines  29-AUG-1994 08:08
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here are the results of the first round of the Premier League in Holland:

Willem II - NAC  2-0
Heerenveen - FC Groningen  2-0
NEC - FC Utrecht  2-3
Dordrecht '90 - Feyenoord  1-1
Roda JC - FC Twente  1-1
Ajax - RKC  3-1
Vitesse - PSV  2-4
Volendam - Go Ahead Eagles  3-0

33 yellow and 3 red cards in this first round of the Premier League.

T_

Here are the results of the second round of the Dutch Premier League

RKC - Roda JC  1-1
FC Twente - Dordrecht 90  2-2
NAC - Vitesse  0-0
Sparta - Feijenoord  0-1
MVV - NEC  0-1
FC Groningen - Willem II  2-1
PSV - Go Ahead Eagles  4-1
FC Utrecht - Heerenveen  4-0

The table

Team		played	points

PSV		2	4
FC Utrecht	2	4
Feyenoord	2	3
Volendam	1	2
Ajax		1	2
NEC		2	2
FC Twente	2	2
Dordrecht 90	2	2
FC Groningen	2	2
Willem II	2	2
Roda JC		2	2
Heerenveen	2	2
RKC		2	1
Vitesse		2	1
NAC		2	1
MVV		1	0
Sparta		1	0
GA Eagles	2	0

Topscorers:

1. Ronaldo (PSV)	3
   Nilis (PSV)		3
2. Gorter (FC Utrecht)	2
   Booy (FC Utrecht)	2
   Gillhaus (Vitesse)	2

Re: -.1

Obviously PSV's investments are paying off nicely!
I got to watch the Vitesse-PSV match on TV over here
(U.S.) and liked what I saw...big improvement with
Renaldo and Luc up there...:-))))))

Jerry_who_can't_get_to_Holland_this_year_but_still_supports_PSV

      <<< Note 15.522 by UTROP1::JANSEN "Reading Blondes have more fun" >>>

Here are the results of the thirth round of the Dutch Premier League

Dordrecht 90 - RKC  0-1
Sparta - FC Twente  3-4
Ajax - Vitesse  5-0
Go Ahead Eagles - Feijenoord  2-2
Heerenveen - MVV  0-4
FC Groningen - NAC  3-4
Willem II - FC Utrecht 0-1
NEC - Volendam  0-0

The table

Team		played	points

FC Utrecht	3	6
Ajax		2	4
PSV		2	4
FC Twente	3	4
Feyenoord	3	4
Volendam	2	3
NEC		3	3
NAC		3	3
RKC		3	3
MVV		2	2
Roda JC		2	2
FC Groningen	3	2
Dordrecht 90	3	2
Willem II	3	2
Heerenveen	3	2
GA Eagles	3	1
Vitesse		3	1
NAC		2	1
Sparta		2	0

rep -1

John,

I consider this as a compliment 'cause isn't your teams name also Lucky??????


T_

    re -1 Ofcourse ! It's always Lucky Leaders.....

Watched the Ajax-Vitesse game yesterday and really felt bad for Vitesse what
with their injuries and the fact that they had to play the Ajax game two days
before their UEFA game with Parma....How come PSV was able to get a postponement
of their match but Vitesse wasn't. Even though I support PSV and am happy for
them getting what they wanted I also feel for Vitesse and what they didn't get.
I mean fair is fair isn't it????

JJ

For what its worth the announcers (2 Englishmen - Angus Loften??? and some
retired English league player) said that Ajax and PSV were the two best teams
in Holland this year and that they don't foresee anyone overtaking them. What
happened to Feijenoord and Vitesse...slipping down the table? Interested to get
how the Dutch see the league this year.

Jerry

rep -1

Jerry,

it's a typical case of one law for them another one for us. PSV had to play
Roda JC last Friday but they urged the KNVB to postpone this games as they
had players with international games last Wednesday, at the moment PSV has
got two internationals ie Numan who was on the bench and Popescu who has
been sold to Spurs.

It's very sick behavior by the KNVB as they are always helping out the
top teams and let the rest hang on. It's the same with working permits
for players outside the European community, the topteams never have problems
getting a permit while other teams always are struggeling.

T_

Dutch results in Europe


Vitesse - Parma  1-0  Well done Arnhem

Bayern Leverkusen - PSV  5-4

FC Twente - Honved  1-4


T_

    
    Cracking game in Leverkusen....2 hat-tricks from Kirsten and Ronaldo.
    
    Schuster hit one of the best free kicks I've seen in a while.....I must
    admit though at 5-2 I thought PSV were dead....the return leg should be
    something else....
    
    Dezzz.

Here are the results of the fourth round of the Premier LEague in Holland

PSV - Dordrecht 90  4-0
FC Utrecht - FC Groningen  2-1
MVV - WIllem II  3-0
Vitesse - Roda JC  1-1
FC Twente - GA Eagles  3-0
Volendam - Heerenveen  1-2
RKC - Sparta  2-2
NAC - Ajax  P-P  Waterlogged pitch
Feyenoord - NEC  P-P waterlogged pitch


The top 5

FC Utrecht   4	8
PSV	     3	6
FC Twente    4	6
Ajax	     2	4
MVV	     3	4


T_

    Hmmm, long
    time nor results here........
    
    Worth to mention, this weekend only a few games :
    
    Sparta _ NAC 		3-1
    Heerenveen - Vitesse	3-0 ( Vitesse never learns)
    FC Twente - Feijenoord	Forbidden by the major of Enschede : to
    dangerious !!!!!!!
    And not to forget, the cookie of the week
    
    PSV - Ajax			1-4 !
    Great performance of Ajax who destroyed PSV already after 15 minutes.
    It was then 0-3 ! PSV could never impress, Ajax was constantly the best
    side. If it would have 1-8 it wouldn't be strange at all. It got time
    that we show these peasants (;-)) that you can't create a team by
    simply buying them !
    Goals from de Boer, Davids, Seedorf and a beauty from van Vossen. Nilis
    made the free-kick, a present from the referee, beautifully.
    
    John....big smile

    re-1 sorry fellows,
    it was NAC - Sparta	 1-3 and I forgot
    Roda - NEC		3-1

    Results from yesterday, wednesday :
    
    MVV - Feijenoord		1-4 
    Sparta - Groningen		3-1
    Go Ahead - Roda		0-4
    Willem II - PSV		2-1 (Are the heads going to roll ??)
    Ajax - Heerenveen		5-1 !
    Relaxed game for Ajax ; only van Vossen and Kluyvert were eager to
    play. Goals from Rijkaard, Litmanen (2x) and Kluyvert (2x).
    
    John

    PSV did it again. This miserable pityfull club fired last friday its
    coach Aad de Mos. A normal human being would understand that you can't
    have the best performance with a complete new team. PSV however is
    always waving with banknotes and thinks it can buy a team that
    functions on a worldlevel right away...........
    However, with their new interim coach they won ;
    
    PSV - FC Groningen		5-1
    
    other results :
    
    Feijenoord - Volendam	5-2
    Most of the games in the league were cancelled due to heavy rain

    Result yesterday :
    
    Roda JC - PSV	3-0 
    Could have been much more then this. Remarkable the faults from Menzo,
    the PSV-keeper. Failures like these caused him to leave Ajax after the
    game against Auxerre.........
    
    John

Watched the Utrecht-PSV match yesterday. Entertaining match with
PSC pulling out a 2-1 win thanks to Luc Nillis. As far as PSV's
keeper goes.....well he certainly makes me rather nervous....
Sorry to see Aad de Mos getting fired...I was at the press conference
when he was announced as coach at Philips Stadion...too bad I 
speak veeerrrryyyy little Dutch :-((((.

Jerry

    re-1 Jerry
    Menzo is a strange keeper. Yesterday he was in some situations a world
    class keeper but he has his moments........and this cost him his place
    with Ajax........
    
    Results from yesterday :
    
    Willem II - Ajax	1-4 ! Willem II had two wins already against PSV
    and Feijenoord and now they wanted to kill Ajax....Ha ! They had no
    chance at all and were beaten after 20 minutes ( 0-2) through van
    Vossen and Litmanen. Later George ( penalty) and Davids took care for
    the other two goals but it could have been 8 or 9 against 1....
    
    Feijenoord - NAC	1-0
    Roda - Heerenveen	0-0
    Volendam - Twente	0-2
    Groningen - Vitesse	1-1
    MVV - RKC		3-1
    
    John

    Watched the FC Utrecht - FC Twente game this morning (U.S.)...4-0 to
    Twente with all 4 goals coming in the second half. Utrecht was missing
    several key players to injuries and suspensions and their lack of depth
    showed. 
    
    Could someone post the most recent table for the Dutch League? It would
    greatly be appreciated.
    
    Jerry (who is still a long distance PSV fan)
    

rep -1

I was at the game and it was awful, Utrecht missed 6 regular players
due to suspension and injury and lost in the first half goal-keeper
van Ede and libero van der Net, all replaced by young 2th team and
youth players, the guy at left back is an amateur and hasn't even got
a contract. 

I'm not even want to think about comming Sunday when we play Ajax,
they only bit of sunshine is Mykland, a Norwegian International, will
play his first game for Utrecht, Vierklau is back from suspension and
let's hope some injuries are gone by this time.

The game Sunday will be messey and with messy I mean off the pitch,
Utrecht started selling tickets last Monday wich is odd as they
never go on sale two weeks in advance and they also never bothered
to tell this in the ground when we played PSV nor in the newspapers
on Monday, tickets for big parts of the ground where normally Utrecht 
supporters sit are now sold to Ajax and I've heard some people talk
about running riot comming Sunday and believe me those guys are awful
so it could get very wicked with may thanks to the Utrecht board who
are more into filling the ground than supporting their own supporters.

I have to leave my normal place aswell as everything was sold-out there
aswell and now sit behind the goal.


T_

Ton,

Several weeks ago wasn't there a game that was postponed because the police
didn't feel it was safe? I believe it was @ FC Twente but I'm not sure.....
From your report it definetly sounds like there could be some problems at the
Ajax match.

I believe the match they are going to show over here next week is FC Twente
at Feijenoord....

Jerry

rep -1

The game that was PP was Twente Feyenoord wich you will see next week.

It's funny due to this PP and a waterlogged pitch Twente only played
2 games in a month while Utrecht played 3 in 7 days, make ya wonder :-((((


T_

    re Jerry
    Untill now only teh country majors forbid plays that could be risky.
    Ajax, Feijenoord, Utrecht and Den Haag fans always had a bad name and
    in fact you could call every game risky.....And when you see all the
    police during the matches. I only go to European games because they are
    a lot safer.......
    I heard that Gorter from Utercht got 7 (!) matches because he sticked
    his finger in the eye of a PSV-player. The referee, linesman or second
    referee (who reports about the first referee) didn't see but it was
    very clear to see on TV. And this tape was the evidence for this
    punishment. A little bit to high, to my opinion, especially when the
    PSV-guy says he didn't mind about it.......

    Results last weekend :
    
    Utrecht - Ajax		0-0 ( Ajax deserved more, but was lazy)
    Twente - Feijenoord		5-1 !
    Groningen - Roda		0-2 ( Roda is leading again)
    NEC - Go Ahead		2-1
    Heerenveen - Sparta		1-0
    Volendam - PSV		0-0
    MVV - Vitesse		2-3

    Well I watched the FC Twente-Feijenoord game and I couldn't believe the
    outcome -- well after watching Feijenoord's back line I could but
    Twente just kept attacking, attacking, attacking....Who was the Twente
    player that got 2 goals? Too bad he just missed his third late in the
    match. TV showed the Feijenoord end near the end of the match - EMPTY!
    Next Sunday we have PSV-Feijenoord...hope PSV can match Twente's
    results though at this point a 1-0 victory would be just as sweet.
    
    Jerry

    Jerry,
    
    The FC Twenty player was Arnold Bruggink (19 years old).  He also hit
    the crossbar with a header right before his first goal...
    
    The man that really impressed me for Twenty was Michael Mulls(sp) #7. 
    I've seen him twice now against Utrecht and Feijenoord, and he's been
    the dominant player on the pitch in both games.  Can anyone give me
    some background on him?
    
    Marc

the news from yesterday evening:

Dick Advocaat, the current coach of the Dutch team has signed a contract
with PSV and starts after the international against Luxembourg (15th Dec).

The new coach for the Orange team will be Guus Hiddink.

Utrecht have signed Norwegian International Erik Mykland.



T_

    ESPN2 sucks....there I feel better already. Yesterday the scheduled
    match was to have been PSV-Feinenoord from Eindhoven...instead we got
    a reply of the NCAA (college) women's championship game between Univ.
    of North Carolina and Notre Dame. ESPN2 has been televising Dutch foot-
    ball for 2 years now and each year they had the PSV-Feijenoord game on
    their schedule and then they don't televise it. As a matter of fact, I
    can only remember seeing PSV 2 times in the last 2 years and that was
    this year when they played Vitesse and Utrecht (both away games)....
    anyways...can someone post results from this past weekend and the
    current table?
    
    I know I'm early but have a nice St.Nicholas Day..........
    
    Jerry

    re-1 Jerry,
    
    probably some other station had bought the rights for the game...and so
    they were not allowed to show it. It wasn't live in Holland to...or
    perhaps on Filmnet......
    
    O.K. the results :
    PSV - Feijenoord	4-1 ! PSV had to do it with ten players after
    Promayon had to leave for a foul on Taument ( then it was 1-0 for PSV).
    Feijenoord equalised but then the Wolf give a to soft ball back on the
    Goey ; Numan scored 2-1. After that Nilis and Ronaldo made the 4-1.
    Roda - Utrecht	1-0 Roda remains the leader
    RKC - Twente	1-0 After last weekend the fallback of Twente
    Nec-Nac		0-2
    Ajax - MVV		3-1 Ajax was great again but missed a lot of
    chances. Only in the second half Overmars but the two winning goals.

Appreciate your posting, of course PSV's results helped make my day :-))))
So what has happened to Feijenoord. Seems to me that they are falling down
the table badly this year....what is going on? And Roda leading the league?
Nice to see some of the power shifting around but I fear that Ajax will overcome
any defecit through the course of the season....thought I don't care for Ajax
I do enjoy watching Overmars and Jarri L.... (the Finnish player - can't spell
his last name). 

What is the reaction to Advocaat taking over PSV? Do you think he can inspire
the team and get them back to show some consistency?


Jerry

some reuslts from the Amstel cup played last night;


NEC - Ajax I  0-3
Ajax II - Dordrecht 90  2-0
FC Utrecht - FC Twente  3-1
PSV - Heerenveen  0-1
Willem II - Feyenoord 1-1 Feyenoord win 9-8 after penalties
SC Heracles - Sparta  2-1 Heracles scored in the 1st minute of extra time
                          and with the sudden death in Dutch cup footy it
                          was over for Sparta
Volendam - AZ  3-0
????? - NAC  0-2

draw for the quarter finals is tonight.

T_

    
    So what is the final going to be....
    
    Ajax I v Ajax II ???
    
    Dezzz
    

rep -1

don't bet your life on it, the big U's are still there!!!!!!!!!!!


T_

Re: The Amstel Cup....

  Ajax I ?
  Ajax II ??

  Could someone enlighten me as to what this means? Is Ajax so powerful that
  they split their squad and made up 2 teams? Curious to say the least....


Jerry

    Jerry, Re -.1
    
    Yes it is a little curious I suppose. Ajax (I) qualify for the
    cup in the normal manner, the second (reserve) team of any club
    can qualify by winning the reserve league championship.
    
    Tim

Tim,

Thanks, that clarifies the situation for me. 

Jerry

The draw for the quarter finals of the Amstel cup


Heracles - Volendam
Heerenveen - NAC
Ajax I - Feyenoord
Ajax II - FC Utrecht *

* this game will probably be turned around and be played in Utrecht, the coach
  of the second team of Ajax said this morning on the radio there was no need
  to 'cause Amsterdam has got two beautiful grounds, dunno wich ones he meant,
  definatly not the Olympisch stadion and the Meer isn't that great either, why
  are the building a new ground anyway.

  On this I & II stuff, this is really funny, if I goes out this round and
  II survives, the first team can take the place of the second team in the
  semi-finals. This happenend a couple of years back and evrybody was cheering
  when RKC knocked them out in the quarter finals.

  A well was will happen will happen and the big U's will eat this second team
  alive and go on to win the cup.

T_

    
    Hi Ton,
    
    re -.1 but wouldn't it be embarrassing to be knocked out by a
    reserve team ;-) ....I mean it *could* happen couldn't it ?
    
    Lots of luck
    
    Tim

rep -1

yes it could but it won't so........

result from last Thuesday;

PSV 2 RKC 2

Well Aad de Mos got 10 points outa 8 games and got sacked and now
Kees Rijvers has got 11 points outa 8 games, not much improvement there,
let's see what D*ck Advocaat will make outa this mess.

T_

    last results, handicapped cause of the difficult match next wednesday
    against Luxembourg :
    
    Heerenveen - NAC	4-3
    Twente - MVV	3-0
    Vitesse - Willem II	3-0
    Sparta - FC Utrecht	5-0
    
    John

    I was a week out and saw some reactions according Ajax :
    
    re .551	Jerry, it was not Ton but me ( John) who gave you the good
    news of the winning of PSV. Don't credit him for everything.....
    And the finnish player is Jari Litmanen !
    re. 554	We are waiting for Ajax 3 !
    re  556 (Dezz)
    re Ton	No, not everybody was happy when Ajax 2 lost from RKC and
    not all the players from Ajax 1 were in then. And do you really think
    that Utrecht can beat our second team easily ? Forget it. If you can't
    win from Sparta.......
    
    John

    
    Sparta 5 - Utrecht 0
    
    saving themselves for the cup game I presume ? ;-) ;-)
    
    B.T.W. that Hernandez (sp ?) bloke seemed to be at fault for
           the first two goals.
    
    Come on cheer up, it happens to us all ! 

    
    Weekend's results, (re-scheduled due to earlier postponements so
    			not all clubs involved)
    
    Feyenoord - RKC         1-0
    Vitesse   - Twente      6-1 !!
    NEC	      - Willem II   2-2
    NAC       - Ajax	    2-2 (NAC equalised three mins into injury time)
    Roda JC   - Volendam    1-1
    
    

    
    re -2
    
    correction
    
    RODA JC - Volendam 2-1

    re-2 Do we have a copier inside ????;-)
    

    
    Dunno if we have a copier, but he sure loves it doesn't he !
    
    Last game before the winter break tomorrow, I don't know off hand
    if there are any other games on (?) Ajax will have had a good
    bollocking after Sunday's game so they'll probably be ready willing
    and able for 2 points, but on the other hand if we score an early
    goal then their heads may go down.
    
    Am going to the match (of course) am then leaving for UK for
    Christmas/New Year. Have ordered my tickets for Leeds v Newcastle
    on Boxing Day, and Leeds v Liverpool on New Years day.
    
    Here's wishing all of you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year
    
    
    Tim

    re-1 Best wishes to you Tim, see what it will be tonight. By the way
    live on dutch TV !
    
    John

    Yesterday : as promised :
    
    NEC - Ajax		0-2 !
    With this result Ajax leads the table and may call itself again the 
    Winter-Champion.
    
    John
    

    
    John...
    
    Winter Champion...what is the name in Dutch...In Germany they call 
    e.g. Dortmund, the Herbstmeister (Autumn Champion). Maybe that's
    because they usually only play 3/4 games in German winter 21-Dec
    through 21st March.
    
    Dezzz. 

    re Dezz,
    
    Dutch name is winter kampioen. And that is because the intention of the
    programme of the dutch football League is halfway around X-mas. So the
    winter champion is the team leading the table at the end of the year !
    
    John

rep -1

John,

isn't it Herfst kampioen????


T_

    No Dutch footy this weekend, all matches were off due to
    frozen pitches, snow etc.
    
    This was to have been the first series of matches after the
    "winter break". Traditionally the weather was OK for football
    during the break, and as soon as the season resumes the weather
    takes a turn for the worst. Will they ever get it right here ?
    
    Instead of freezing my nuts off on the bench I spent yesterday
    afternoon watching the Live game on BBC1 then the darts later
    in the evening.
    
    Read on Dutch teletext that Pierre van Hooijdonk (NAC) had signed
    for Glasgow Celtic for Dfl. 3.000.000 
    
    
    Tim 

    There were some matches played last weekend but I don't know all the
    results.   Studio Sport showed the crazy Feyenoord 5 Dodrecht 4
    highlights, followed by the dire Groningen 0 Herenveen 0 game.
    I wandered away to do something more important at this point
    (wash the dishes), wondering if PSV, Ajax or any of the other
    Top5 teams had played.   Anyway when I next sat down, I discovered
    a boxing match involving Ajax, the crowd and the linesman (who
    seemed to come off worse).   Does anyone know what went on here ??
                      
    Ray

Holland 0 France 1 - Friendly, Utrecht
Wednesday 18th January 1995
===========================

A game of two halves and one goal.   Despite the depleted Dutch team assuming
control of the first 45 minutes, it was the French who scored just before
half-time.   A mistake in the midfield allowed France to break quickly
and Loko (in Acapulco) shot from wide on the right into the left corner
of the net.   Until then the visitors looked as though they had never
played with one another before - even Papin and Cantona were making simple
mistakes.   For Holland, Glenn Helder (from Vitesse Arnhem) made an impressive
debut, and roamed freely on the left wing and then the right (when Van Vossen
replaced Overmars).   However his penetrating crosses never connected with a
flying Dutchman.

In the second half, France looked much more authoritative, and Cantona
began to stroll about in the middle of the park.   Desailly, wearing extra
thick gloves (he's obviously not used to the cold in Milan), looked very
stylish, as he played in and around the French back four.   The result
though flatters France as the goal and the half-time team talk really
made the difference.   As for the Dutch - well they can take heart that
so many good players were missing, who will hopefully return for their
next big match in the Czech Republic in April.

The game finished incredibly late, as their were two presentations before
and during match.   As 20,000 ice cubes left Utrecht, many wished that
they too had gone loco in Acapulco.

    >Desailly, wearing extra thick gloves (he's obviously not used to the cold 
    >in Milan), looked very stylish, as he played in and around the French back
    >four.  
    
    Don't wish to nitpick, but if he's "not used to the cold in Milan" he
    ain't never going to get used to it! The temperature here rarely gets
    much above freezing point during the winter. I'd compare it with
    Glasgow, rather than the South of France.
    
    Dom