Conference trucks::football;1

    Ireland should get at least second place in this group, whoever the
    manager is....
    
    Ray....

    I do believe the Macedonians are actually called The Former Yugoslavian 
    Republic of Macedonia in order to stop the Greeks getting stroppy.
    Methinks they should take Prince's line and become................
    
    ^
   ~&~  The country formerly known as the Former Yugoslavian Republic of 
    @   Macedonia.
    

    
    Anyone got the fixtures for this group yet if they could post them
    
    Pat

1996

24 Apr	Macedonia - Liechtenstein

 1 Jun	Iceland - Macedonia

31 Aug	Liechtenstein - Ireland
	Romania - Lithuania

 5 Oct	Lithuania - Iceland

 9 Oct	Iceland - Romania
	Ireland - Macedonia
	Lithuania - Liechtenstein

 9 Nov	Liechtenstein - Macedonia

10 Nov	Ireland - Iceland

14 Dec	Macedonia - Romania

29 Mar	Romania - Liechtenstein

 2 Apr	Lithuania - Romania
	Macedonia - Ireland

30 Apr	Romania - Ireland
	Liechtenstein - Lithuania

 7 Jun	Ireland - Liechtenstein
	Macedonia - Iceland

11 Jun	Iceland - Lithuania

19 Aug	Liechtenstein - Iceland

20 Aug	Ireland - Lithuania
	Romania - Macedonia

 6 Sep	Liechtenstein - Romania
	Iceland - Ireland
	Lithuania - Macedonia

10 Sep	Romania - Iceland
	Lithuania - Ireland

11 Oct	Ireland - Romania
	Iceland - Liechtenstein
	Macedonia - Lithuania

    Mick McCarthy has been banned from receiving cup final tickets. Two
    tickets that he received last year ended up being sold by touts for
    about 10 times their face value....
    
    naughty boy....
    
    Ray....

    Raymond,
    
    You wouldn't be insinuating that 'Mad' Mick McCarthy benefitted from
    the sale of these tickets. I believe him when he says that that they
    were passed on at face value. Just as I believe that Sir Bobby didn't
    benefit from a similar episode, Man Utd are a really fan-friendly club
    who don't rip anyone off and Terry Venables is innocent of all
    allegations made against him...
    
    Stuart

    .6   stu....
    
    I'm not insinuating anything, I'm just trying to raise a row 'cos it's
    getting boring in here. Anyone fancy a fight????
    
    COME AN' `AVE A GO IF YOU THINK YOU'RE `ARD ENUFF!!!!
    
    Vinny....
    
    ps....I still think Cantona is a thug who should have been banned
    indefinitely and ManU should be deducted 20 points for being ugly,
    moaning faced whingers....(that ought to do it....)

   >>  getting boring in here. Anyone fancy a fight????
    
    Sorry Ray. I would have joined in but I was off.
    
    
    			Stretch
    

    >Sorry Ray. I would have joined in but I was off.
    
    Off doing what, Supersperm?

    The first game in this group was played on April 24th when Macedonia
    beat our bogey team Leichtenstein 3-0 at home. Next game is on June 
    1st when Macedonia travel to Iceland.
    
    Pat

    I see Roy Keane after kissing last week and making friends with 
    Mick McCarthy is out of the squad for next weeks visit to
    Liechtenstein. He apparently has to have surgery on a knee
    problem.
    
    Pat
    

    Liechtenstein 0-5 R of Ireland
    			Townsend, O'Neill, Quinn (2), Harte
    
    I only saw the goals, so I can't comment on the performance. However,
    Ireland were 4-0 up after 20 minutes and seemed to take their foot off
    the gas thereafter....
    
    Ray....

    Paul McGrath and Gary Kelly are back in the Irish squad for the
    friendly versus Wales on 11 Feb. I believe that it's the first time
    that both players have even been in McCarthy's squad....
    
    Welcome back Ooh-Aah....
    
    Ray....

    friendly result
    
    Wales 0-0 R of Ireland
    
    Ray....

Republic of Ireland squad to meet Macedonia in the World Cup Group 8 
qualifying game in Skopje on April 2. I believe that there could be a
doubt over the game because of the Albanian situation....  

    A Kelly (Sheffield Utd), Given         
    (Blackburn), Cunningham (Wimbledon),   
    Kenna (Blackburn), Phelan (Everton),   
    Irwin (Man Utd), McGrath (Derby), Breen
    (Coventry), Harte (Leeds), Staunton    
    (Aston Villa), McAteer (Liverpool),    
    Houghton (Crystal Palace) Keane (Man   
    Utd), Townsend (Aston Villa),          
    McLoughlin (Portsmouth), D Kelly       
    (Sunderland), Goodman (Wimbledon),     
    Cascarino (Nancy), Moore               
    (Middlesbrough), Geoghegan (Shelbourne).                          

>>> Geoghegan (Shelbourne).

I wondered why he didn't show up on the wing in the 5-Nations.

Rgds, Steve.

    >Cascarino (Nancy)
    
    Bit below the belt, isn't it, Ray? He might be past his best, but I
    wouldn't question his courage...
    
    Dom               
    

Final score:

Macedonia 3 Ireland 2    

    
    Oh Dear...forgotten how to defend...1-0 up after 8 minutes and then it
    all went horribly wrong...
    
    	Unlikely to qualify for France.....
    
    
    Guess I'll have to support Brasil...
    
    Dezzz.

It all went horribly wrong when the ref was chosen ! In the first incident many a
ref would have ignored it as it was just unlucky the way the ball bounced of his
chest and it was going to run out the park anyway - no danger. The 2nd penalty
could have been brushed away as a accidental - he seemed to be turning away and
trying to protect his face, not interfere with play. Guess the luck of the irish
ran out - or is just that strip colour to blame.

Danny.

    Romania v Ireland today, if we get a draw I'll be amazed, if we get a
    severe tanking it won't surprise me....
    
    Come on ye boys in green!...
    
    Ray....

    I hope Ian Harte doesn't fall over this time and let the opposition
    score... ;->
    
    Cheers,
    
    	Rick.

    It looks like Ray Houghton will get a kick. It is the sort of game he
    would pop up in after 20 minutes :-)
    
    It ain't over yet, and it is make or break day for Mick Fantastic
    
    ..Kevin.. 

    
    
    
    The team has been announced. Not 1 centre half in it!
    
                            Alan Kelly
    
        Irwin                                           Staunton
    
                    Cunningham       Harte 
    
          Houghton           Keane            Townsend
    
       Gary Kelly           Connolly                  Kennedy
    
 With a team like that anything can happen.
    
    
    Des
                   

   >> Is it 4-3-3 or 4-5-1 ?
    
    Dunno, it is weird if you ask me. Is he playing Gary Kelly as a winger
    or what? I suppose Roy Keane will be the "center-half" but the whole
    thing looks confused. I am not looking forward to the dreaded Dunphy
    getting his hang-ups into this.
    
    ..Kevin..

Kelly is man marking Hagi. 
That's why the line up looks deceptive.
It's esentially 4-5-2 with Kelly basically shadowing Hagi all over 
the park.

We'll be stuffed !

Peter

    
    Whats all this talk of "centre-half's" then ??  I remember my dad
    telling me about them....were they called centre-half's in the days
    before central defenders came along ?  Suppose Ireland will be fielding
    a team with 2 wingers, 2 inside forwards and a centre forward !!!!
    
    Takes ya back eh ?
    
    Trevor

    >>Whats all this talk of "centre-half's" then
    
    Well if you had seen the ******** Rumanian goal you would know what we
    mean boy. In nuspeak they are called central defenders I think, but it
    is the same difference, you need a tall bloke or two in the middle  who
    can head the ball to safety. 
    
    When one of the first Irish crosses came over who went up for it but one
    big tall center forward (er sorry, striker) by the name of Gary Kelly,
    who otherwise pratted about up and down the wing. 
    
    Ray Houghton nearly did as I predicted with a brilliant run, and
    letting Roy the nut take the penalty was nearly as daft as making him
    captain. Ireland could have won this 3-1 to qualify for the World Cup.
    
    Sack Mick Mccarthy now, before he does more damage, I say. This was a
    mixture of pathetic and ridiculous.
    
    ..Kevin..
    
    
      -< How old ARE you guys ? >-
    
    46. And how old is trev the clev? 
    
      

    I missed the hi-lites but there will be several inquiries held....Keane
    is to face a FIFA 'probe' over the head-butt, Houghton was hit by a
    coin thrown from the crowd but played on with a gash in his head and 
    Cascarino says that one of the Romanian players spat at him. It sounds 
    like fun was had by all last night....
    
    Ray....

    Re.44
    
    It's obvious you have been away too long, Trevor, as most teams in the
    Premier and England usually are now playing with 3 central defenders and 
    2 wing backs a throw back to pre Alf Ramsey days. Mind you, the old
    flat back 4 did,nt do Man U any harm again this season %^)
    
    As regards Mick "Not so Manager Fantastic" McCarthy, the jury is still 
    out. He has done some good things, introducing more young players
    in a year than Charlton did in 10. By the end of november his fate will
    be sealed anyway. 
    
    Des 
    
    
    

McCarthy has received a two year extension to his contract, which will take 
him through to the end of the Euro Championship in the year 2000. This will be
ratified at the FAI meeting on May 16th according to a report in todays Star.

B@  
    
    

    I think that's fair enough, he should be given time to see if his youth
    policy works....
    
    Ray....

    I hope it won't be ratified. The guy is a good bloke, but one of life's
    loosers. He has now won about 4 out of 13 games I think. If Joe Kinnear
    had been manager, we would be qualified for the world cup by now.
    
    A youth policy is no good if the new players simply learn how to lose.
    
    Big Jack managed to bring in young players while winning games with
    the oldies. That is the challenge of managing Ireland.
    
    ..Kevin..

    
    
    Kevin,
    
    I's true that Macca's record is not the Mae West and some of his
    selections have defied belief but he did inherit a squad full of
    full backs and players over the hill or thereabouts. But fair play to
    him for throwing the youngsters in at the deep end. As they say
    neccessity is the MotheR of Invention (I always thought it was Frank
    Zappa but there ya go) 
    
    As regards Charlton, he played the same players for the best part of 10
    years. If you doubt this take a look at the number of caps in excess of 
    50 that most of the teams of '88 - '94  got. Great players all but 
    caps were bestowed even in friendlies at the expense of younger players.
    
    
    The future lies at youth and under age level, a point grasped by
    Mac and Evans but totally ignored by Charlton and worse than useless
    Setters.
    
    Des
      

    Um, 
    
    Now Jack certainly had his weaknesses, but he did bring in youth when
    he felt they were ready, most notable Macketeer, Gary Kelly and Phil
    Babb. He made sure he qualified first though. My problem with  Cpt 
    Fantastic is he loses the whole time. It is a struggle to get past Iceland
    at the moment. We will have a great team which never wins, young players who
    never get to world cups, but have loads of experience losing against 
    the USA.
    
    Jack put together a core of players who had experience at the highest
    level, who could step out and play anyone, beating England, Germany,
    and Italy. After watching the joke last Wednesday, nobody can seriously
    believe that McCarthy will ever  achieve that. Gary Kelly on his own in the
    box trying to head a cross ?? Do me a favour. Jack's manic numbers got
    to be a pain, but let's not kid ourselves, there has been a hugh drop
    in standards and it will take a lot to get back that core of top level
    experience inf McCarthy is allowed to blunder on and on. 
    
    ..Kevin..

    
    
    I agree with most of what you say Kevin, but what alternative did McCarthy 
    have. we just dont have the players anymore. Should he have preservered
    with the old timers and squeezed a few more games out of them or give
    youth it's head. I know Houghton's performance was brilliant but how
    longer can he play at that level?
    
    Charlton inherited a fantastic squad of players and brought in 2
    other key players, Aldridge and that man Houghton. He was lucky.
    McCarthy not so and we are stuck with him.
    
    We should make the play off though.
    
    rgds
    
    Des. 
    

Even if McCarty were sacked who else ( A better manager that is ) 
would want the job.
The guy has a thankless task. To build a new team from scratch and 
live up to the Charlton ( fair-weather , know nothing about football 
, asanine , ticked price inflating , hysterical female screaming ) 
fans expectations. 
As far as I can see the guy is doing quite well. He's introduced some 
new blood , is trying to play ball and has been unlucky to a large 
extent in the results he has had to date. Some of the players he has 
introduced are now being linked with Premiership clubs. They're young 
and learning. Give the guy his two more years. It's cliched but 
sometimes you have to take a couple of steps back in order to move 
on.
Charlton & Setters are more to blame for the current state of 
affairs than anyone else !
Their dismal record with the youth teams was overshadowed by the 
success of the senior team. They never invested in the future , 
inevitably the resources were finally drained and they jumped leaving 
a scuppered ship. McCarty deserves his chance and even if his tenure 
is unsuccessful at least his successor will have something to work 
with.


Peter.

    Peter,
    
    You are not adressing my main criticism, which is that McCarthy clearly
    hasn't a notion of how to organise a team to win. Wednesday was a bad
    joke. It is crap to say he has to build a team from scratch. He has
    several good players who have two world cups behind them, but he can
    hardly get past Iceland.
    
    ..Kevin..

>    joke. It is crap to say he has to build a team from scratch. He has
>    several good players who have two world cups behind them, but he can

These several players being ?

Keane - Injured for quite a few games this season. Unavailable !!!!!
Quinn - Injured !!!!!
Irwin - Won't make it to the next Europeans in 2000 !!!!!!

Ehhhhhhhhhh
Townsend - Will retire from International football by 2000 !!!!!!

Now - can you name any more - McAteer and Kelly are still immature players. Will Babb be there 
? Who knows. Staunton , there's one.

So that's maybe four players out of 20/22 that we need for a squad and you say he doesn't need 
to build a team from scratch !
Where are the strikers , central defenders , midfielders with experience in two world cups ?
We had one keeper until Given was introduced.

For anyone with any knowledge of modern football , McCartys tactics ( in theory ) have been 
prefect. He has had limited resources , too many defenders , a few midfielders and no proven 
strikers. To play 5-4-1 or 5-3-2 using defenders as wing backs made perfect sense at the time. 
Now he didn't get the results he wanted but to make an asinine comment as to his ability to 
organise a team to win displays a complete ignorance of current footballing methods.
The majority of English , European clubs play such a system. It is a new system and seemed to 
be progressing well after the Tournament in the US last season , who could blame him for 
persevering. Macadonia is not a game on which to found any criticism. Two very bad decisions 
which led to penalties killed that game. Romania was different , the team played well and 
probably deserved a draw.

Sir , I accuse you of being no less than one of the genre of fans I refered to in my previous 
note. I challenge you to respond to the other issues raised in that same note( after informing 
yourself with more than tabloid hack journalism )

Peter( An Impartial Celt )

>    joke. It is crap to say he has to build a team from scratch. He has
>    several good players who have two world cups behind them, but he can

These several players being ?

Keane - Injured for quite a few games this season. Unavailable !!!!!
Quinn - Injured !!!!!
Irwin - Won't make it to the next Europeans in 2000 !!!!!!

Ehhhhhhhhhh
Townsend - Will retire from International football by 2000 !!!!!!

Now - can you name any more - McAteer and Kelly are still immature players.
Will Babb be there ? Who knows. Staunton , there's one.

So that's maybe four players out of 20/22 that we need for a squad and you say
he doesn't need to build a team from scratch !

Where are the strikers , central defenders , midfielders with experience in two
world cups ? We had one keeper until Given was introduced.

For anyone with any knowledge of modern football , McCartys tactics ( in theory
) have been prefect. He has had limited resources , too many defenders , a few
midfielders and no proven strikers. To play 5-4-1 or 5-3-2 using defenders as
wing backs made perfect sense at the time. Now he didn't get the results he
wanted but to make an asinine comment as to his ability to organise a team to
win displays a complete ignorance of current footballing methods. The majority
of English , European clubs play such a system. It is a new system and seemed
to be progressing well after the Tournament in the US last season , who could
blame him for persevering. Macadonia is not a game on which to found any
criticism. Two very bad decisions which led to penalties killed that game.
Romania was different , the team played well and probably deserved a draw.

Sir , I accuse you of being no less than one of the genre of fans I refered to
in my previous note. I challenge you to respond to the other issues raised in
that same note( after informing yourself with more than tabloid hack journalism
)

Peter( An Impartial Celt )

    Peter, 
    
    
    perhaps you would like to reformat your long and (as far as I can read
    it rather contradictory) polemic, so I can read it all. 
    
    You have already mentioned quite a long (but not complete) list of players
    with world cup experience available at present, and since McCarthy
    began. The way he is going his successor won't have the same, as there
    will be NO Irish players playing with Euro or World Cup Final
    experience if he is around for much longer. All they will know about is
    how to draw with Iceland and give "where do we go from here"
    interviews. The trick is to win games and blend experience with youth.
    
    McCarthy loses about 60% of the games, that is USELESS and you may as
    well face up to it.
    
    So cool down and cut the sexist blather, you remind me of the dreaded
    James Lundon and his Limerick mantra, he also lived on XSTACY :-)
    
    ..Kevin.. 

    I think we all should look back to before the "Ole Ole" years when
    Ireland were useless and qualified for NOWT. Eoin Hand almost qualified
    for Mexico 86, (beaten on goal-difference), and resigned, (or was he
    sacked?). Charlton inherited that squad and without too many changes
    qualified (jammily due to a last minute goal for Scot v Bulgaria), for
    Euro 88. I'll give Charlton his due for the years after that up until
    95/96 but my point is that McCarthy is back in the position that Eoin
    Hand and his predecessors were in, i.e. a mediocre team from a small
    country that shouldn't expect to qualify for everything. Give the guy a
    chance.... 
    
    Ray....

    
    Just a little nit pick, Ray..
    Eoin Hand's squad nearly qualified for Spain '82. They had a terrible 
    qualifying '86 campaign and Hand had to go. How he managed to do this
    with such class players just shows how inept as a manager he was.
    
    Charlton inherits this strong squad and the rest is history.
    
    
      

    Ireland v Liechtenstein today, Ireland must win by lots and lots of
    goals. Big Mick seems fairly confident, Shay Given looks like he will
    get a decent run in the team now, especially if Dalglish signes him for
    Newcastle....
    
    Ray....
    
    ps....congrats to the Irish Under-18s who qualified for the European
    Championships yesterday....

    Word is that Big Jack will be in attendence tonight.
    
    
    			Stretch. 

    Mick was on Kenny Live at the weekend saying if he doesn't win his job
    is gone. 
             
    His contract is looking dodgy if you ask me, but nobody is :-)
    
    ..Kevin..

    Ireland 5-0 L'stein
    
    Connolly 3
    Mongo 2
    
    I listened to the match on BBC Radio5 and it sounded like L'stein were
    as bad as their currrent position shows them to be, and it looks like
    McCarthy has found a striker at last....
    
    Ray....
           

    It was a kickabout. Lichtenstein are a joke.
    
    Connolly is good, but pint sized.
    
    
    ..Kevin..

    
    Re. last
    
    > Connolly is good, but pint sized.
    
    
    Is size important then?
    
    
    j.

    >> Is size important then?
    
    Not always, but if you have a manager who is so tactically shrewd that 
    players are crossing balls in to the likes of Connolly, Gary Kelly, and
    Ray Houghton, it is. When he finally brought on Cascarino (the man Karl
    Heinz Rummenigge described as totally unable to move shortly before he
    got the winning goal in Hannover), the defence were so surprised that
    Cas scored two, one without even having to jump. Of course, you can do
    this kind of nonsense against Lichtenstein, but against even second
    rank sides like Rumania you lose. 
    
    Size is a factor of course. If you played a team of three foot ten
    midgets, they might not be that great in the air, might they? So what
    you need is balance and clever management, McCarthy obviously ain't got
    it. 
    
    ..Kevin..    
    

    
    Perhaps McCarthy ought to check out Kevin Francis's family tree..
    
    
    j.

    
    re.67
    
    C'mon Kevin, We won 5 nil. Home and away.
    Under Charlton we drew nil all away and beat them 4 nil at home.
    The standard of Lichenstein's play hasn't changed much in the interim.
    They were crap then as they are now. 
    
    Hold back judgement until October.
    
    
    regards
    
    Des
    
    
    
    
    
    		

    Kevin,
    
    how's about some credit for Mick?...I know that the opposition wasn't
    up to much but at least we finished the season on a high AND scored a
    load of goals and maybe found a consistent goalscorer in the Fowler
    mould....
    
    Ray.... 

    >>Under Charlton we drew nil all away and beat them 4 nil at home.
    
    Okay, I admit it, Mick is better at playing the likes of Lichtenstein
    than Jack.    On the world stage this is worth sfa.
    
    But please put me right,
    
    Mick has already lost nearly as many games as Jack did in ten years ?
    
    ..Kevin..
    
    

    
    Kevin,
    
    I'm not convinced with McCarthy team selections but if he gets to the 
    play offs then he'll have done well considering what he inherited.
    
    His competitive record, the only one that counds, read:
    
    won 3 drawn 1 lost 2
    
    Charlton's last 6 games in charge was slightly worse:
    
    won 2 drawn 1 lost 3 
    
    This is a fairer assessment as they were mostly the same players available 
    to both managers.    
    
    
    MacCarthy has made mistake but let's wait and see.
    
    
    
    Des.

    Even on that pear shaped sample Charlton has a 34% better win/lose
    record.
    
    McCarthy experimented around, but it is dumb to practice badly in any
    sport. Ireland have lost the knack of winning. Ireland should be
    winning their group, Rumania could have been beaten, and but for really
    stupid selection and tactics, reaching the playoffs is regarded as an
    achievement.    Time will tell. I would not bet on McCarthy to reach
    the playoffs, there are more flops to come.
    
    ..Kevin.. 

    
    Kevin,
    	On what grounds do you base your statement that Ireland should be
    winning the group ????  Is it because you think the players are the
    best, or that the manager is to blame...or have you had so many good
    years that you now think it is your divine right ????
    
    
    I see NOTHING to suggest that Ireland should be placed any higher in
    the group than they currently are....
    
    Trevor

    Trevor,
    
    Implicit in my argument is that there has been a loss of form under
    McCarthy.
    
    The sentence should read:
    
    If we had maintained our previous level of performance we would be
    winning the group.  This is based on a value judgement of the quality
    of the play I have seen, my not so humble opinion :-)
    
    Ireland beat England, Italy, Germany under Charlton. Rumania were crap,
    but Ireland were crappier, when they  played recently. There is no way
    I can see McCarthy getting an Ireland team to beat a leading European
    football country, never mind three of them. 
    
     >>>the manager is to blame
    
    Yes, that is what I am saying.
    
    ..Kevin..