Conference trucks::football;1

    
    Rather a tough group, but there is an advantage. If we make it to the
    semi-finals, and with a side like ours we stand a good chance of doing
    so, we won't meet the Germans.
    
    Rob

    
    Or perhaps the same bunch of girlies spitting at each other for ninety
    minutes !!  :-)
    
    Ads.

    RE .1 :
    
    And if Germany also make it to the semi-finals, which is quite
    possible, you may meet them in the finals instead !
    
    Eduard ;-)
    

    
.4>    And if Germany also make it to the semi-finals, which is quite
.4>    possible, you may meet them in the finals instead !
    
	You're assuming that England don't beat Germany in the semi-final,
which of course they will do, unless they beat France in the semis instead.

    I'd rather play the Germans in the finals than in the semi-finals. By
    the way, there is always a chance that they get beaten by another team
    in the semi's if they have an off day. 
    
    Rob
    

     Speaking as a scot it was a great graw for us.Now we can be put out by
    the best instead of the worst.
                                     SCott

    What the hell is a graw??????????????????????????????????
    

    
    GRAW=DRAW slip of the finger.

    
    
    Scotland will win every game easily beating England 5-0 in the final
    
    signed
    
    Ally McCloud

    England???? In the finals??? I mean Scotland o.k., but England???

    
    Forget England, Sweden will kick them out with Brolin scoring in the last
    minute. :-)
    
    Mats

    By the way, is Magnusson from Benfica still in the Swedish team???
    
    Rob

	Anyone any ideas as to whether BBC/ITV are showing these
	Championships, or is just down to SKY as usual...

			Cheers Al.

    The Beeb and ITV are both going to show the championships. They met
    recently to decide who shows which games where England and Scotland are
    involved. As for the semi's & final - if the home teams are involved
    they'll probably both show them!
    
    Paul

    
    Have the fixtures/dates etc been posted anywhere ? I must have next 
    unseen them without realising.
    
    Ta in advance 
    
    CHris

    
    
    thanks very much 
    
    Chris

    
    
    Hi,
    
    It's great news for all Brits that Scotland have qualified, however it
    is unfortunate that they have been drawn in such a hard league.
    Hopefully, Scotland being the under dog in every one of their games
    will put the pressure on the oppenents. If Scotland are unlucky and
    knocked out of the tournament at least they know they were beaten by
    far superior sides.
    
    
    I feel it's a shame Scotland can't produce a quality side, they
    probably have the most fanatical and dedicated supporters in the world
    and they defiantly deserve a better national side.
    
    Cheers
    N

    As always with England in the European Championships, we'll win one
    group match, if that, and we'll be home after three games. Happens
    every time, and I don't think this time is going to be an exception.
    
    I hope I'm proved wrong, mind.......
    
    Ian

    
    
    I hope your wrong Ian, however as they say football is a funny old game
    and you never know it may be Scotlands year.
    
    
    
    
    

    Today it is Hollands turn. 
    Yesterday I heard that Rijkaard probably cannot play. This would be a
    shame. Does anybody know something more specific on this subject?
    
    Bart (Who-definitely-hopes-that-French-TV-will-not-be-on-strike-
          tonight)
    

    Hi Bart,
    
    Rijkaard made a last test last wednesday. And everything seemed to be
    oke. So he'll play tonight:
    
                         v. Breukelen
    
    
         v. Tiggelen     Koeman        v. Aerle
    
     
                        Rijkaard
         Gullit                          ?
                         Bergkamp
    
         v/h Schip      v. Basten    Witsche
    
    
    Enjoy the match. (hopefully you can see it there)
    
    Cheers,
    
       Robert (Dutch and stuck in Nijmegen)

    Goram
    Malpas
    
    
    Gough (cap)
    McPherson
    McKimmie
    Durie
    McStary
    Allister
    McCall
    McClair
    McCoist
    

    Will someone ensure that we are kept up-to-date with the score thi
    afternoon.
    
    Tony

    To all you Europeans out there, you thought England were bad last
    night!!
    
    If you wanna laugh,watch the Dutch annialate the jocks tonight...
    
    Get your bags packed boys.....your on your way home !!!!
    
    Andy.b
    

	Whats amatter Andy? Not recovered from Englands tactics last 
night and expect the same tonight?  You might just be right but at least we 
will try to apply some intelligence to the game. See the other note for my 
comments on the England Denmark game. 
    

    
    
     re last
    
    
     I fully expect the Dutch to win comfortably tonight against Scotland.
    However, no matter the score, I think Scotland will show a bit more
    ability than Engerland did last night. 
    
     Being a scot, I had a great laugh last night at the total garbage that
    was supposed to be a football team. The skill factor was zero, passing
    ability was zero, no-one had a football brain to try and create any
    reasonable chances. Engerland were given a lesson in the 2nd half by a
    far better football team.
    
     Palmer, Keown, Curle and Platt are nothing but big strong athletes
    trying to play football. In fact, their that bad they wouldn't get a 
    game for the super Scots!!!!!
    
     Danny.
    
     

                                RE::28
    
    
    
         Jocks with intelligence, dont make me laugh !!
    
    
    

    
    I think Scotland will cause Holland problems tonight but the Dutch are
    in a different class.  
    
    Gary.

    >          Jocks with intelligence, dont make me laugh !!
    
    	You have to have sense of humour to laugh.
    
    	I wouldn't have thought that Scotland could play any worse than
    England did last night. 
    
    
    		

	Andy B. I wouldn't try to make you laugh not when you've got so many
comedians to entertain you. It was fourteen if you coun't the last act with 
his catch phrase "I'm totally satisfied with the teams performance". 

Jim

    
    RE A FEW BACK.....
    
    
    	We might not win any games but we will still hold our heads high.
    
    
    
    	Who is this bloody  "JOCK" person anyway........
    
    	
    
    	Andrew.

    
    The only way that i can see the jocks giving the dutch any trouble,
    is if they dont turn up!
    
    But then again they might be better off, because it would save them
    the embarrassment of getting stuffed..
    
    

    "still hold our heads high".... Yeah right,Rule Brittania,three
    cheers for our brave lads.

I'm off home to watch the footy.

COME ON YOU SCOTS

See you at Rivermead tomorrow p.m.

Al

    
    
    	any score yet....
    
    	Andrew.

It`s 0 - 0.

Scotland are holding out well.

    HOLLAND 1 SCOTLAND 0
    
    Both teams had the chances,but as usual the lads didn't take theres.

    
    
    well,well,well..
    
     There are eight teams in this tournament, i wonder if you can name
     the ONLY team without any points..
    
    

    
    
    They might not have any points, but at least they played well 
    and were unlucky against the best team in the competition.
    There was a lot more excitement in this game than in that crap
    England game the other night.....And from what I saw of Germany
    and the CIS I wouldn't be surprised if Scotland take something
    from one of these games. 
    
    Scottish fans can be proud of their teams performance!!!
    
    					RP.

    
    
     Well, it's just another let down.
    
     After playing so well for most of the match, Scotland lost a terrible
    goal late in the game. McPherson cleared a corner kick almost to the
    half-way line. Instead of pushing upfield, the whole defence stood on
    the 18 yard line and allowed Gullit all the time in the world to come
    forward and deliver a good cross. SUICIDE!!!!!
    
     Van Basten, Koeman and Rykard had probably their quietest game for a
    lone time. Having said that, Holland always carried a bigger threat up
    front than we did, especially in the first half when they could have
    scored 2 or 3 goals.
    
     No disgrace from Scotland. They played very well and deserved a draw
    in the end.
    
    ps Mr Barefield, although Scotland lost last night, they certainly
    played 100 times better than your effort at a football team did on
    Thursday. As Michel Platini said, England now rely on free-kicks and
    corner kicks to try and score goals. They have so little skill in
    midfield and up-front it's embarrassing.
    
     Danny

    Andy B.
    
    Grow up for Gods sake.  You are embarrassing.
    
    		Brian.

    re -1
    Hear,hear
    
    Says it all really.
    
    His comments are almost as embarrassing as the behaviour of the English
    supporters......
    
    
    
    Steps back and waits for vitriolic reply full of words like "crap",
    "jock" and "kilt"   Sad, isn't it ?
    
    Kev...

I have to say it but if the are any England fans giving Scotland stick in
here they should shut up and just note in the Group 1 note. Scotland
played supremely well against World Class opposition, while England have
simply played crap against mediocre teams.

I hope the Scots come away with something from the Germany game this pm.
If they play like they did against Holland then there is hope.

    I hope Scotland can take away a point from Germany. As they play like
    last friday, they have a good chance. I think they deserve a place in
    the semi-finals. They played very well, and actually they also desirved
    a draw against Holland.
    Tonight Holland will get lots of problems on scoring a goal. And with a
    little luck GOS can score in a counter. As known Holland always have
    problems in the first round of an event like this (Holland - Ireland
    (1988) 1-0 in the last few minutes, with a very lucky goal). Thursday
    will be a big day in this tournament with Holland meeting Germany
    again. There's always something special with this game. Some people say
    that it has to do with the war. I don't think so. I think it has to do
    with the 2-1 score in Germany 1974. But when Holland wins I'll
    certainly go to the border with Germany ( I live on 30 minutes from the
    border). That's such a great party. 
    
    All I can say of thursday is that it will be a 2-1 or 1-2 score, with
    both countries getting a penalty .
    
    Let it be a very friendly and nice tournament.
    
    Cheers,
    
       Robert
    

    re -1:
    
    I agree with you that the main reason will not be the war. (I mean,
    that is 45 years ago, youth does not really care about that one
    any more)
    
    IMO there are several other reasons why those matches are always
    loaded with tension.
    - 1974
    - Germany and Holland are neighbours
    - Both countries have very good players
    
    As for the good players, I have never seen any of these two countries
    overclass the other one in a match.
    I mean, look at the WC 1990. In the first round, Holland was crap and
    Germany played their best football. When they met each other, the 
    difference was not very big, and the match was brilliant. (Exept for
    the "Llama" part.
    
    I think thursday will show another fantastic match.
    
    
    About last friday, I thought Gullit played very well. Roy was not very
    bad in the beginning, but started later on playing this annoying play
    in which he thinks he is the only player on the field. (Remember the
    time he attacked through the middle of the field and wanted to pass
    4 players and ofcourse lost the ball)
    I think the decision to replace Wouters was a good one because he
    was not as good as he used to be. (Bayern influence maybe?? :-))
    
    I hope the quality of tonight's matches will be higher than the ones
    we have seen until now. (except for Sweden-Denmark which I really
    enjoyed.)
    
    Just my thoughts,
    
    Bart
    

    
    I felt refreshed after watching the Scotland v Holland match
    on Friday afternoon. Even more so in light of the England v
    Denmark game.
    
    To be honest I would be quite happy for England to lose week
    in week out if only they got out there and played like Scotland
    did against Holland.
    
    Since the Terry Butcher and Brian Robson days England no longer
    play with any bite. Lineker shouldn't be captain. Give the job
    to Pearce.
    
    Anyway boys, unlucky. Man of the match for me was Gough. Played
    a blinder.
    
    JN.

    The Scots played well against the Dutch, but the Dutch carved out a
    goal and they deserved to win. The Germans were very lucky as per usual
    - the words 'Germany nil' are almost as satisfying as 'Manchester
    United nil' ;-) .
    
    Ther Germans will have their work cut out vs Scotland today, but they
    will probably scrape a 1-0. Holland will beat the CIS by 2-0.
    
    jb.

	Thank you Robert but I think you are being too kind. The Scots did 
extremely well given that the team is short of class players - I know Gough 
was incredible, and all the other did their jobs well. The fact is we played 
to contain Holland and lost. It's hardly a critism saying we lost to Holland 
they are a fine team.

	So onto the German game. What do we have to do to get a result? I
can't see another controlled defensive game getting us anything other than a 
close defeat (at best) so I reckon its time to wind they up and go for it, not 
quite bring back Ally McCloud but find something to upset the German flow. 

Jim


	

It was well worth leaving early on Friday afternoon. I wa a little late and had
to drive around to get the kids, so I had to listen to the first 25 minutes on 
the radio. It sounded to me like the Dutch were playing with us and that any
second they'd get bored and start to build the cricket score. But once I started 
watching on the box, Scotland's resilience and determination in defense was very
impressive, and I felt that another 0-0 draw was inevitible.

Although Holland were by far the most dangerous side on the field, and in light
of their exciting and dominating performance which deserved the points, I felt
gutted when the Dutch scored, as I felt Scotland deserved not to lose.

I heard this morning that both McCoist & McClair have been dropped for this 
afternoon's game, with Boyd & A.N. Other ( forgot who it is ) taking over. I can
understand McClair being dropped. He was a complete and utter waste of space on
Friday. McCoist had a quiet game, but that was probably due to the fact he was
playing with McClair. Unless he was injured I can't understand why Roxburgh to
McCoist off before McClair against the Dutch.

Best of luck to the Scots this afternoon. I hope they can get something out of
todays game. The Germans looked ordinary against the CIS until the CIS
scored, and then they looked devastating. I feel sorry for Voeller having broken
his arm, but with his goalscoring ability I'm pleased his not playing.

My tactics would be "Don't score until the last minute" :-)

Al

    re last
    
    I thought they said McKimmie and McClair had been dropped in favour of
    Alan McLaren and Tom Boyd. McCoist will play up front again.
    
    kev...

    I heard that it was McClair and McKimmie dropped to be replaced by
    Ferguson (??) and Tommy Boyd.  Good luck to the Scots but I expect it
    to be a similar game to the one against the Dutch.  This time Scotland
    will put a chance away.
    
    Scotland 1 Germany 1
    McStay     Illgner
    
    		Brian.

    
    Re -1, Brian do you really expect Bodo Illgner to score?  He is the
    goalkeeper.
    
    Gary.

    Well, let us see if Scotland can do what (I think) they do best. ie.
    Play with total commitment and upset the Germans. We cannot afford to
    sit back against a team of such quality as them and *hope* to get a
    breakaway goal.
     Having watched all the games it must be said that the entertainment
    level has been low (or zero both Engurlands games). There so far seems to
    have been plenty technical skill on show but why do most of the teams
    seem to have one front man who is poorly backed up by the midfield.Even
    in last nights Sweden-Denmark game which was slightly more exciting did
    Sweden, on most occassions, two attackers aginst *eight* defenders in
    the box (I did count them).
     I just feel that if somebody(Scotland?) took a couple of risks and
    perhaps pinched a goal early then the games would surely come to life.
    This tournament needs a cracking game to get the public back into it so
    here is my prediction for tonight:
    
    
                           SCOTLAND 4 - 3 GERMANY
                           (McCoist 2)    (Klinsman 2)
                           (Gough)        (Hessler)
                           (McStay)
    
      Well, we can always hope ;^)
    
         Jonno.

    Gary,
    
    Didn't know he was the keeper, I just saw him on telly last night and
    could remember his name.  I guess the scorer will have to be Voeller:-)
    
    		Brian (embarrassed by my ignorance)

    But we all know Voeller will miss the rest of the tournament.
    
    

Jim, Re: The Comedians, Good one!!

Anyway, good luck to Scotland this afternoon, hope they do the biz... and with
McClair not playing they could...

It's not so difficult as it looks, Northern Ireland held the Germans to a 1-1
draw a couple of weeks ago, and now with Voeller gone?????

Tarik

I'm glad I was wrong, but I'm sure he said McCoist on the radio.

I expect at least a point today

Al

    
    
    	Just popped in to give the Scots what I think is a bit of good
    news;
    		Just heard on the radio that Bertie V. has dropped Doll for
    tonights game and bought in Klinsmann + A.N. Other. This is madness!
    Although it is believed that Juergen has been brushing up on his dives
    after seeing Platts efforts yesterday. 
    
    		Good luck to Scotland, I thought they were unlucky against
    the Dutch, and if they play as well this afternoon they'll get at least
    a point. 
    
    		As an English noter said earlier on, I'd be happier if
    England tried and lost as the Scots did.
    
    
    			Steve

    Funny you should mention Platts dive. Not hard to tell he plays
    in Italy nowadays is it 8-)

    Half an hour gone - Germany 1 Scotland 0

final score  Germany 2 Scotland 0

Brave performance again by the Scots but they can't find the goal.
The first German goal was good, the second one a bit lucky but you need
luck in the game.

Only thirty minutes unitl kick-off for Holland and CIS, so I'll get out of
here go downstairs and watch it.

T_

    
    Holland	-    CIS
    
       0              0
    
    The atmospere in Gothenborg has been all orange this afternoon. Lots of
    Dutch supporters waving their flags and singing. When i entered the
    stadium, two section was filled with only Dutch, and it was a lovely
    sight to see.
    
    The game started well, a couple of Dutch chances in the first ten
    minutes. Then the tempo slowed down a bit, and CIS got control of their
    defence. There was a typical Koeman-freekick late in the first half,
    but surprisingly someone else took it and did it poorly. The whole game
    was dominated by the Dutch, but i must say that the CIS defence played
    good, especially the keeper. His save on Van Bastens (?) header was
    superb. The late Dutch goal that was called for off-side was a clear
    one, i sat right in line.
    
    So far only one team of eight is out of the competition, it will be
    two exiting days later this week.
    
    Mats
                        

We were robbed last night 'cause van Basten was at least 1,5 meters on side,
it was cleary shown on tv, when Wouters played the pass van Basten was still
behind Bergkamp and Bergkamp had a CIS defender in his back so definatly no
off-site.

We'll have to do it against the Germans and I hope the Scots will CIS *ss
'cause the Scots deserve a win and CIS don't deserve a place in the semi's
with this unbelievable negative playing style of them.

T_

    
    Holland and Germany should go through, they are the best teams in this 
    group. If Scotland or CIS played in they other group they could already
    have qualified. 
    
    Three more words on yesterday:
    	The CIS keeper was absolutely brilliant.
    	Van Basten's header was not offside.
    	It's a pity Scotland is out already. The play with passion.
    
    Heiko
    

      <<< Note 153.68 by HAM::SCHARNBERG "Seid umschlungen, Millionen" >>>

    
>>    Holland and Germany should go through, they are the best teams in this 
>>    group. If Scotland or CIS played in they other group they could already
>>    have qualified. 
    
>>    Three more words on yesterday:
>>    	The CIS keeper was absolutely brilliant.
>>    	Van Basten's header was not offside.
>>    	It's a pity Scotland is out already. The play with passion.
    
>>    Heiko
  

Heiko,

You're right on all tree, about the goal by van Basten we (the Dutch) should
not moan too long as it was an off-side goal in 1988 that helped us into the
semi's.

What I can't understand is that a team with so much skills like the CIS play
so negative!!

A well Thursday will be the night with Germany against Holland :-)

T_  

    ....you made more chances in the few minutes I was able to watch the
    game than England did in the whole of their game with France.
    
    Germany is the team to beat.....
    
    -Dom

    About yesterday's match I can only say that Holland was better and
    deserved to win. The goal by Van Basten was a clear one, as stated by
    everyone already.
    
    I think it will be tough thursday because to be sure Holland has to
    win.
    If CIS win and Holland draw against Germany, Holland can already pack
    their bags. It would be a shame because Germany and Holland are the
    teams who deserve to be in the semi's.
    
    Good Luck Holland,
    Bart

rep -1

Come on Bart,

It will be a hell of a game Thuersday but I recon we still can do it and
don't wipe out those Scots, they've not been very lucky against two attacking
sides but if the CIS play the same game as they did against the Germans and
the Dutch (so unbelieveable negative!!!) I think the boys from up North still
have change.

T_

    Well this time I thought the Scots were truly unlucky.  In the Scot v
    Holl game the Dutch were by far the best team with the Scots just
    holding on but last night the Scots deserved a draw as I thought they
    had as much play as the Germans and as many chances.  You can keep
    saying that they only needed a bit of luck but at the end of the day if
    the Scots had shown some better finishing they would have had at least
    a draw.  Still it was definitely the most enjoyable match so far.
    
    It is a bit unfair that Scotlands best chances in both games have
    fallen to McPherson who has shown he is not the best of finishers.  Now
    if England attacked with as much passion and as many players as
    Scotland they might just reach the semis.  It is interesting to compare
    the amount of times Gough and McPherson get in the oppositions penalty
    area, with the amount of times Walker/Keown/Palmer get there.
    
    Group II is by far the hardest and most entertaining group.  I expect
    the winner to come from that group but it is hard to choose between the
    Dutch and Germans.
    
    I think it is about time the English fans in Sweden grew up and took a
    leaf out of the Scottish fans book.  Get right behind your team and if
    things don't go right it's no excuse to smash some shops up in the city
    centre and fight with the police.
    
    		Brian.

    re -1: Yeah right, the English fans should behave a little bit more
           mature. Anyway, I do not want to upset any of you, but this morning I
           heard on the radio that the UEFA thinks about banning the English
           again from European Football.
    
    Did anyone notice how "hardheaded" these Scots are?
    Two Germans out with an unbelievable headache I believe.
    
    Bart

    
    Scotland were incredible yeterday.  They go out with heads held high
    after losing to probably the 2 best sides in Europe.
    
    Scotland will cause the CIS problems however it's quite possible that
    Holland or Germany will miss out on the semi finals.  All 3 sides
    deserve a emi final place.  The CIS are an excellent technical side and
    they got the results they needed.  They may have defended a lot but
    their swift counter attacks caused Holland problems.  The 2 game
    syesterday were of the highest quality.
    
    Gary.

    
    Scotland vs Germany: by far the best game of the championship so far,
    and with a bit of quality finishing from the Scots the result could
    have gone the other way. Scotland played with great character and no
    little skill, particularly from McStay, but just couldn't finish when
    it mattered; at this level, you must take your chances.
    
    Holland vs CIS: the English commentators (Parry and St. John) seemed to
    think this was a terrible game but I thought both teams exhibited a
    high level of skill with occasional flashes of imagination. The Dutch
    were unlucky when Van Basten's goal was ruled out but, as someone else
    pointed out, they benefitted from such a decision four years ago. 
    The CIS were increasingly negative as the game wore on, culminating in
    them passing back to the keeper from a free-kick INSIDE the Dutch half.
    I hope Holland and Germany qualify from here as they play the best
    football.
    
    Just a mention for Ian St John: according to him, the CIS 'keeper was
    suspect, and liable to lose them the game.
    
    jeff

rep -1

I dunno what game the English commentators saw but it was a different one than
I did, he was a good close game with a very good CIS goal-keeper, the way he
topped van Basten's header over the goal was supurb.

T_

>>    <<< Note 153.66 by GOTA1::APPELQVIST "If it don't stink, don't stir" >>>
>>                          -< Not so bad, not so good >-
>>
>>    The late Dutch goal that was called for off-side was a clear
>>    one, i sat right in line.
    
    
    Well, what can i say. I just came back from the game when i wrote that
    reply. When i came home i switched on to Eurosport and saw the
    incidence again, and you are all right. Van Basten was clearly on-side.
    When you sit and watch a game live, everything happens so quickly. All
    my mates thought it was off-side, so did the Dutch supporters around
    us. There wasn't that much protests from the Dutch team as well.
    
    My mind comes to American football, where the referees has help from
    other referees on the stadium who watches the replays and tells their
    desicion to the field-referees threw a radio-link. Perhaps a simular
    sullotion is suitable for real football. We up on the tribuna was
    wrong, and we saw it three-dimentional, think of the linesman who must
    make a quick decision by an two-dimentional impression. It's not easy.
    
    Lennart Johansson, the UEFA-president said yesterday that if English
    supprters continues to vandalize and start fights, UEFA will strongly
    concidere to give the 1996 championship to another country. The opinion
    in England seems to be that hooliganism is yesterdays problem, that's
    not true, he continued. He's right of course. When i se such nice,
    happy and polite supporters as the Scots and the Dutch, i fell anger
    about the English. This is not a Brittish problem, and it would be very
    unfair to bann Scottish teams from Europe on behalf of what English
    supporters are doing.
    
    Mats 

Well yesterday afternoon restored my faith in the sport.

Two cracking matches, although the results should have been swapped.

Scotland v Germany.

	This game was non-stop for 90 minutes. Both teams played some veryful and
skillful & imaginitive football. Scotland were unlucky not to be 3 up in the
first 15 minutes, and ended up being lucky not to lose 4-0 ( with some help from
the uprights ). Germany looked better than they did against the CIS, but I still
think we haven't seen the best of them yet. A draw would have been a fair
reflection on the game.

	Scotland may be out of the championships, but they can't complain and
should hold their heads up high. They lost to the best 2 sides in the world ( let
alone in Europe ) and gave as good as they got, except for putting the ball in
the back of the net.

	Their only problem is finding the players to score goals at international
level. If they do so then they'll be in the U.S. in two years, and I reckon 
they'd make the second stage. There was absolutely no doubt that they didn't have
the conviction to go out and win, just ask Reuter & Buchwald. BTW anyone know
their condition.

	Scotland now have no pressure and I hope they go out on Thursday, and 
teach the CIS how to play passionate, aggressive football.

Holland v CIS

	Another entertaining game, that the Dutch should have won. The Dutch
dominated most of the game, and the CIS were just content at waiting for the 
opportunity for a counter attack. The CIS reminded me a little of Argentina in
Italy, though not as bad. I hope Scotland ruin their plans. The Dutch on the
other hand showed their usual flair on the ball. Rijkaard & Van Basten were
unlucky with a couple attempts, the CIS keeper was inspired, it reminded me of
the Genoa keeper against Liverpool at Anfield. Van Basten was robbed with his
header, but to be fair to the linesman, I thought he was a mile off-side until
I saw the replay.

	One other point, I think Van Basten was lucky to stay on the field after
the two footed 'tackle' on the CIS defender near the end. Had he made contact,
that would have broken the defenders leg no problem. He didn't even get a warning


That's all for now

Al

P.S.

I wish the England supporters would take a leaf out of the Tartan armies books.

I heard on the radio this morning that after the game they stayed in the stadium
for an hour or so, singing. And Roxburgh had to go out onto the pitch 3 times to
thank them for their great support. It was also reported that one of the songs 
went something like:

	"If you like the Swedish police, clap your hands...."

For the sake of the game

		GROW UP ENGLAND!!!!

 <<< Note 153.79 by FORTY2::ROBERTSON "You don't wanna do it like that !!!!" >>>
                      -< Out but definitely not down!!! >-


>For the sake of the game

>		GROW UP ENGLAND!!!!


Whilst I echo your comments, lets put this into perspective. It is a very
small percentage of English ( I will not use the words fans or supporters ),
and, well blow me down, the media have blown it out of all proportion. 


Stuart

Stuart,

	I realise that it's only a small minority.

	But as long as that minority continue to act like Neanderthals, the rest
of English football is going to suffer.

	As they said in Not the 9 O'Clock News "Cut off their Balls" :-)

	It would be a tragedy if English clubs were again barred from Europe, or
if England lost out on the European Championships in 4 years, thanks to a handful
of mindless thugs. I wonder how many of those involved have actually been to any
of the matches so far??

	It's also about time the media took responsibility. As you say they blow
everything out of proportion. But unless you actually witness first hand what's
going on, that's the only way you'll get the news.

Al

I really must get on with some work now :-(

    Well done Scotland - at least one team from the UK can play some
    entertaining football, and they had a will to win, but can't score. I
    didn't see the CIS - Holland game, but listened to the commentary - it
    sounded very good, I'll look at the highlights later on today.
    
    As for the English 'fans' - there was a news item on Radio 4 this
    morning discussing the bad behaviour - there seems to be a hard core of
    50 or so that have linked up with similar nutters from other countries
    just to run riot. The ringleader has been arrested and may spend some
    time locked up. Good. I hope that this does not lead to another Euro
    ban.
    
    jb.

  Many years ago I went to see England in Luxembourg. When I arrived 
  back in this sceptic isle, I thought either I or the reporters must
  have gone to a different place.

  The fans drank gallons and by and large behaved themselves.

  Your roving lager lout,

  Stuart

    
    Stefan.
    
    Whether or not the press over do it really depends on which 
    paper you read here in the UK.
    
    The thing is though, as I have said in another note, the lower
    festoons of the British press are well known for initiating the
    trouble with financial or material rewards to the minority ring
    leaders who then start the aggro.
    
    Fortunately it is only a minority but even that is too many. They
    probably wouldn't even be able to tell you what the results were for
    the two England games so far or who England are to play next.
    
    I don't know what the answer is but they are spoiling it for the rest
    of us.
    
    JN.

>	Please accept that there is a
>    	hooligan problem, that it's specifically English 
				    ^^^^^^^^^^^^ 

At international level, yes. At club level, no. We are now far no 
worse than the club supporters of Germany, Holland, Spain and Italy.
It's not unusual to hear of deaths attributed to hooliganism 
particularly in Italy and did'nt a section of travelling Torino(?)
fans cause damage on their way through Belgium and Holland recently
when making their way to Ajax (never a problem there!) for the Euro 
final? 

So why the difference at international level? There's a lot more to 
this than meets the eye and really this is'nt the topic in which to
discuss it. 

barry.

Someone recently pointed out this notes file and I've decided to share my 
thoughts on Scotlands performances.

First things first, we don't have any eight million quid players, not even
four million or two million so we're never likely to win it or anything, 
let's be realistic.

What we can hope for though is that all the players play to the best of their 
ability and that they play football to win. This is a premier tournament and
don't forget that many players would regard this as the ultimate high in their 
career. Thousands of division one players throughout Europe will never get a 
chance to play in this or a World cup.

Right then, with this is mind, for your national side to go there and play
a defensive, "let's try for a draw for the points" is nothing short of a 
disgrace. Football is a game. It is for entertainment. Attacks, goals, 
running until you puke, these are entertaining things, and this is what the 
people want to see. I'm sure of it. Oh yes.

I'm happy to see that the Scottish national side are managing to provide this.
I'm not that bothered that we're out. We've given people something to talk
about and a spectacle to watch. The Scottish players get to play the best teams
in the world at the moment and will go home knowing that they played their best
against them. 

Having said all that, if we had Charlie Nicolas in the team it'd be a different
story. Yes, Oh yes, I remember when he used to.....

Also, a pet theory. Scotland has about 4 million as a population. Has anyone
ever listed the countries in terms of population, ie, 1. Russia, 2. Germany 
etc. This will show 'real' footballing nations, ie, those where thier ability 
seems to outweigh their population. Holland's strength is all the more
remarkable when you consider their population. 

Lastly, hooligans. You could end it at a stroke by not allowing anyone near a 
football ground unless they played football themselves. Ever noticed that they 
never play ? Mind you, I suppose the English team would have a hard job 
getting in for their matches with a rule like this.

David Wood
    

    Dear All,
    
         Can you please refer all comments about HOOLIGANS! to the
         note including England.  Note 152.00
    
           Thanks Nick.

    Well, if some of the remaining games have as much action as yesterdays
    Scotland-Germany match then the rest of the tounament will be a treat.
      
      I predicted (jokingly) in note.57 (I think) that the score would be
    4-3. It could easily of been! The uprights, good saves & bad finishing
    were the only thing that kept the score down, not lack of attacking or
    boring defensive attitudes as has been the case in so many of the games
    that have been on.
    
      No matter what happens against CIS we can hold our heads high because 
    at least we had a go. If I were an English supporter and the team does
    not qualify I would be raging due to the fact that even with the good
    players they have they have been negative.
    
      I think the Germans will meet the Dutch in the final as the only team
    that look like they have any buzz about them are the Swedes.
    
      Here's hoping that we get some more goals.
    
      A disappointed but proud Scot.
    
             Jonno
    

    
    I would just like to take the opperchancity to thank Scotland for
    brightening up a somewhat humdrum tournament.The whole nation has taken
    great pride in their achievement,regardless of results,and it seems
    they have won many admirers for their up'n'at'em style.
    	Anyway,although i can't fault any of the players for their
    commitment to the cause,i'd like to single out two players for a
    special mention.Paul McStay and Richard Gough to me,have been the stars
    of the tournament,and i would bet anyone that there'll be a few
    enqirires from foreign climes for both these players in the near
    future.
    	One point regarding the Germany game bothers me though,(and i'm
    surprised no-one else has picked up on it),was why Roxburgh didn't put
    on Duncan Ferguson.After all,he saw the mayhem Gough was causing the
    German back four.This would have had a double effect as i'm sure it
    would have given Super Ally(who wore Buchwald like a second skin),more
    space to do what he does best,especially when the Germans were reduced
    to 10 men.Instead we ended up with a front three with an average height
    of about five foot nuthin and a centre forward who couldn't score at a
    gang bang.
    
    Ending on a lighter note,i see from today's"Fabulous Super Soaraway
    Scottish Sun",that both David Mellor and Graham Kelly are trying to lay
    the blame on the Swedes for causing the rioting.Their reasoning behind
    this is......
    
    They were far to hospitable.Well they did organise cheap beer tents
    for all visitors didn't they!!!!!

    David Mellor is a Tory Politician, and Chelsea supporter. Kelly is an
    oaf. The 50 or so known hooligans should not have been allowed to
    travel to Sweden. It is an (unfortunately) known fact that English Yobs
    have no sense and they go mad in the sun with the addition of beer. Yet
    again 50 or so idiots let us all down.
    
    jb.

    
    To digress a tad.
    Can anyone tell me who USSR beat in the semis of the last tourney.My
    mind has gone a blank.(nothing new there....ed).Also,which teams were
    in Germany's group.I think Denmark was one,but who were the others.
    awaiting a quick reply as we finish at 19:00 and don't start again
    'til Sunday night.

Well how can i help,

1) I think that the semi's for the last championship were:

		holland Vs Germany
		Ussr	vs italy

as for germany's group (heres my best shot)

	germany
	Italy
	Denmark (if you say so)
	spain	a guess!!! or hungary (so say jim maher!!)

	ireland
	england
	holland
	ussr

Mick
	Now you have me thinking for a change :-))

    Going back to Scotland, all they need for a well balanced side
    now is a decent striker. McCoist only scores so many goals because
    he gets so many easy chances at Rangers. McClair has no real 
    skills on the ball, and Durie is nothing short of average. Don't
    see anyone lining up for the job though. A Kenny Dalglish from 
    15 years ago is what's required. Whereas, Holland and Germany are
    teams crammed full of able strikers, some of them playing in defensive 
    roles.
  

    Dave

Holland is slowly getting ready for the match against the Germans but nobody
I've seen on telly is very confident (except the players ofcourse).

The problem for the Dutch will be the German teamspirit wich can lift them
very high but I still think we can do it, we have got much more skilled and
experienced players than they have.

I think it will be a small win for the Dutch 1-0 or 2-1 but I really hope
the Scots kick ass against the CIS, the Scots deserve it the CIS don't.

My predictions for the semi's

Holland - France
Germany - England


T_

    
    .95 is correct although it was West Germany not Germany who played in
    the 1988 tourney.
    
    Gary.

    It seems that Holland might have a little bit of luck tonight.
    After the match against the Scottish, Riedle,Buchwald and Reuter will
    not play tonight. At least, according to French TV.
    Upto now I thought Riedle was Germany's best player in the tournament.
    To be honest, I think it is a shame he won't be there tonight.
    With Voeller out as well, we stand a good chance.
    
    Bart.
    

     <<< Note 153.99 by BONNET::HOLLESTELLE "Dutch and Stuck in France" >>>
                              -< Holland-Germany >-

>>    It seems that Holland might have a little bit of luck tonight.
>>    After the match against the Scottish, Riedle,Buchwald and Reuter will
>>    not play tonight. At least, according to French TV.
>>    Upto now I thought Riedle was Germany's best player in the tournament.
>>    To be honest, I think it is a shame he won't be there tonight.
>>    With Voeller out as well, we stand a good chance.
    
>>    Bart.
  
Bart,

I still think we have to be careful, you never now with those Germans, their
team spirit can lift them so high.

T_  

    Does any one know which game is on ITV tonight?
      According to the paper they hav'nt made up their mind.
    
     Scotland V CIS   or  Holland V Germany
    
       I would prefer Scotland agian but Holland v Germany holds more
    interest.
    
           NICK.

    re-1
    
    according to this morning's paper,England are getting the Holland game.
    
    no luck at all......
    
     SQF Jambo

    re: 100
    
    Ton,
    
    I know it will be tough anyway, but I think the German team really is
    "Handicapped" (?) today. It is sure that it is not with their best team 
    they are going to play.
    But as you said, you never know with these Germans.
    I will watch the match with some Germans. (Dangerous, is'nt it :-))
    
    Does anybody know whether Gullit plays or not ?
    It looked serious last monday but I have not heard anything yet.
    
    (Wir winnen mit ein nul of zehn)
    
    Bart.
    

Is this the silence before the storm???

no entries for 2 1/2 hours!!!

I'm sure Ruud Gullit will play, according to the Dutch papers Michels will
start with the same 11 as against CIS.


HOLLAND HOLLAND HOLLAND HOLLAND HOLLAND

    I had to work very hard for a few hours, but I'm getting in the mood
    now for this evening. It's that special feeling you get inside, that
    makes you very excited but also a bit nervous: "shall they make it, or
    not or will Scotland win, etc.". And it also makes me go to the
    toilet very often (kidding).
    
    The closer we get to 20:15 hr. the more you think about What/If. But I
    have such a nice feeling I also had on Tuesday 1988. It's that feeling
    that nothing can get wrong. As if you can look into the future and see that
    it will be oke tonight.
    
    But we'll see.
    
    
              Hup Holland Hup
              Laat de leeuw niet in zijn hempie staan
    
              Hup Holland Hup
              Trek het beesie geen pantoffels aan
    
              etc, etc.
    
    Let's just do it.
    Let's send them home.
    
    Robert (very honest and not sheeting the predictions !!)
    

    I think Holland stand a good chance tonight because they are a good
    attacking side and it is my opinion that the German defence is not that
    great. OK, they have yet to concede a goal but, under pressure, they
    yield (see Scotland). Given a little precision by Van Basten and
    Bergkamp, they may lose bad, like 3:1.
    
    On the other hand, the "Indies" (best coinage I could find for CIS
    guys) could dynamite Scotland someting like 4:0.
    
    Standings with those predictions:
    
    Holland	5 Pts (+3)
    CIS		4 Pts (+3) 5 goals scored
    Germany	4 Pts (+3) 4 goals scored
    Scotland	0 Pt
    
    Should be good games tonight, lots of goals needed to go through.
    
    Here is to hoping.
    
    JF

    
    
    C'mon you Indies
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

    Hmmmm....I have a strong feeling that there is a high nervosity in
    Holland......The whole day the radio sound like an Orange Orchestra,
    and I can feel the tensions myself.....
    Why ? As mentioned before...Holland - Germany is always a special Match
    with a lot of sentiments in it. Both teams made always a great show of
    it. But beating the Germans is always difficult...no matter if they
    loose one or ten footballers before a match. There are enough good
    reserves to fill in the empty spaces.
    Yes, tonight we have the better chance but we still have to make goals
    that are counted by a referee. The GOS game showed us what can happen
    if you can't find the net..........
    I hope it will be a great game tonight ! 
    
    Next to that I hope that the Scots will have the same luck of making
    goals. They had so many chances to have a draw against Holland or even
    to win from Germany. They missed the same luck. They deserve to win
    this last game. They played as it should be ; play to play and not
    defend to perhaps get a reult !
    
    John

    Is Mart Smeets already standing near the border to see whether he can
    cause some riots between Dutch and German fans ??
    
    Bart
    

    
    What a pity Voeller isn't playing. Rijkard (sp) will have to keep his
    saliva to himself. Or will he target Klinsman. :-)

    A draw is good enough for Germany to go through to the semi's,
    but Holland can't risk it  (because CIS beating Scotland could keep
    Holland out).
    
    Consequently, the Dutch need to attack.
    
    But, the Germans are lethal on the counter attack
    
    Therefore, I predict:
    
    	Holland 1    Germany 3
    
    
    
    But the Dutch shouldn't worry because the Scots will beat the CIS (2-0)!
    
    Final Group Table:
    
    			P	W	D	L	F	A	Pts
    
    	Germany		3	2	1	0	6	2	5
    	Holland		3	1	1	1	2	3	3
    	Scotland	3	1	0	2	2	3	2
    	CIS		3	0	2	1	1	3	2	
    
    
    
    	Don't bet the farm, I predicted England would win 2-1 !!!
    
    
    PJ

rep -2

He doesn't need to, there have been riots already in Sweden this afternoon,
a couple of hundered Germans hooligans attack Dutch fans and smashed up
cars with Dutch license plates. I just saw it on the TV and the Swedish
riot police were just watching with their willies in their hands and didn't
do a thing.

rep -1

Grow up, this was over two years ago. We don't remind you that you wetted
your pants as a kiddie altough you did!

T_

    
    Well, with a wet pair of pants and my willy in my hand 
    I would like to say the following.
    
    
    Scotland 2    CIS 1
    
    Holland  1    Germany 1
    
    
    JN.

    
    
    Latest   Scotland 1  C.I.S  0
             McStay
    
    Heard a rumour McClair has also scored 

    
    
    Final score
    
    Scotland....3   CIS.....0
    McStay
    McClair**
    McAllister   

    
    
    	Final Score...
    
    	Germany 1	Holland 3
    
    
    	Sorry don`t know the scorers ;-)
    
    	Tam.....
    
    

Believe or not but the Dutch used the Germans as a punching bag en hit them
KO within 15 minutes, after only 3 minutes Rijkaard opened the score with
a beautiful header and just 12 minutes later Witschge banged in a free kick.

Holland played supurb football the first half and could had scored at least
4 goals if they really wanted it ( van Basten fire-cracker against the bar).

The second half the German midfield started hunting for the ball making it
more difficult for the Dutch to set up the attack and they had their goal.

Then after about 15 minutes the Orange train got on the road again and after
a beautiful cross from Winter, Bergkamp headed nr 3 in, did you noticed 
van Basten who ran towards the goal and took a German defender with him and
was pointing with his hand the the ball had to be behind him.

We were the best team last night and are THE favourits for the Championship.

Dutch goal-scorers:

Rijkaard
Witschge
Bergkamp


German goal-scorer:

Klinsmann


Man of the match:

van Basten

After the match I went to Utrecht to celebrate and there were loads of people
on the streets doing the same, I happened to over hear two English tourists
who were saying to each other this is unbelieveable, it looks like we are
in Italy after they had won the WC a couple years back.

T_

    Be carefull the Germans are down but not out, thanks to the Scots win
    against the 'East Indies'.
    
    The Germans had quite a few of their team out with injuries, I expect
    to see a Holland v German Final, lets hope the game matches last nights
    one.
    
    -Dom

    
    Tremendous game, one of the best I've seen for some time. If you
    compare the way Holland and Germany played last night to England's
    performances in these championships, you can see just how far we are
    behind. The Dutch were superb last night and controlled the game in the
    first half by making it simple: passes to feet, running into space and
    confidence throughout the side. Don't write the Germans off though,
    with Buchwald and Reuter back they will not be so easy to expose in
    defence.
    
    For England, there were many lessons to be learned from this game.
    Neither side gave possession away easily; England can hardly retain it
    for two passes. The Dutch, in particular, were willing to pass to feet,
    even when marked, confident in the knowledge that the receiving player
    would be able to control the ball; England are always looking to knock
    the ball into space for players to run onto because their technique is
    so poor. etc etc etc....
    
    jeff

    This surely was one of the most beautiful matches I have ever seen.
    Especially the shot of Van Basten was a cracker. This really could
    have been the end of the Germans. Too bad he did not score.
    
    The only thing I do not understand is why this Roy still is playing.
    During the whole match he kept on doing what he is good at: Playing
    alone until he loses the ball. The only good thing he did was give the
    ball to Van Basten for this beautiful punch.
    
    If Holland keeps on playing like this, I think we have a very BIG
    chance for prolongation of the title. 
    We have to play Denmark which is I think the easiest of the two from
    the other group. I am not saying that it will be easy, but it is better
    than having to play Sweden in Sweden.
    
    Did any of you guys get the idea we were watching AJAX - Germany ??
    (Well, with some Milan guys)
    I did.
    
    Bart.

     
                         JOB ADVERTISEMENT!!!
    
    ITV football commentator/expert wanted.
    
    Qualifications: Partial eye-sight desirable, preferably blind.
    
    Examples:
    
    Brian Moore: "You know, I think it was Brehme who scored that goal."
    
    Jack Charlton "A great run and cross by Roy to Witshge who scores with
                   as good a header as you'll ever see."
    
    Apply: Elton Welsby, c/o Goodison Park, home of the terminally stupid, 
           England.
    
    
    jeff

    Great game from the Dutch and the Scots ! 
    Finally they were able to make goals. Rijkaard played a great game and
    overruled the 'lama-incident' ( never understood why it got an incident
    I prefer spitting far above the kicking that some players prefer
    (Kohler ?)0.....with that beautifull header. I think he was puzzled
    himself when he saw the ball went in. And luckily for him, in the
    second half he only hit the post when he did the same header on his own
    goal.
    Yes, the Dutch surely showed they make a big chance for the title
    again, but I agree that Germany isn't beaten yet. Let's see how they
    play the Swedes. And I hope that the dutch don't make the same mistake
    against Denmark as they did in the beginning of the second half ;
    letting the other team play.....I was glad the Germans came back, it
    made the game lively and the dutch got awake from it !
    
    As I stated before...I am glad the Scottish got their deserved victory.
    According the football they showed, I think they deserve more to be in
    the semi-finals then the Germans. But the Germans have the necessairy
    points for that ! That's football ; in spite of the fact you lost two
    games ( with bad luck), have no chance to be in the semi-finals and
    still playing like they did ; Scotland, thank you very much !
    
    I have no understanding for the so-called supporters who had to fight
    in Sweden, or the one who went yesterday evening to the border to fight
    the Germans. It's a disgrace to fight your neighbour when the football
    was so great !
    I was glad they had no camera crew on the border to show the fighting.
    And Mart Smeets was to busy with van Hanegem to discuss the game or to
    tell anecdotes about Rinus Michels !
    
    re -1 : Don't ITV-commentators know that Koeman made the first goal
    after a free kick of Cruyff, teh second goal was from van Breukelen and
    the third goal van Tiggelen after a rush from Gullit ? And the German
    goal from Voeller ??????  ;-)
    

    
    For our friends down South wearing the Union Jack tinted spectacles,
    here are the final placings of the eight teams competing in the section
    matches.
                   P  W  D  L  F  A  Pts
    1st  Holland   3  2  1  0  4  1   5
    2nd  Sweden    3  2  1  0  4  2   5
    3rd  Germany   3  1  1  1  4  4   3
    4th  Denmark   3  1  1  1  2  2   3
    5th  SCOTLAND  3  1  0  2  3  3   2
    6th  France    3  0  2  1  2  3   2
    7th  ENGLAND   3  0  2  1  1  2   2
    8th  CIS       3  0  2  1  1  4   2
    
    
    Kinda makes a mockery of all the previous notes slagging of the Scots &
    bumming up the English dunnit !! 
       
    8*))))
    
    
    

    
    
    re. 123
    
    Can you kindly change your note about the union Jack spectacles
    it should be Cross of St. George. the Union jack has a bit of 
    you lot in it.  : )
    
    
    Chris
    

    (Yawn)

    
    Just a wee bit...the Hun bit !

    
    Thank you, Scotland.
    
    Heiko

    
    This morning I was told, that in every major tournament the winner of
    the match Holland-Germany also won the tournament.
    	74, 88, 90
    I was also told, that this was the highest victory ever in a 
    Holland-Germany match.
    
    Read 'after 1970' for both of the above, I suppose.
    
    Heiko