Conference trucks::football;1

    Group II gets 14 replies before the first in here !! All eyes on 
    Scotland is it?
    
    It should be England, and France that go through either one could be
    first with France being the in-form team of the moment, which is
    good news as it'll probably not be in form by the Summer! (I hope)
    
    Yougaslavia would have been a potential problem, but I doubt if it'll
    even exist by the summer as a team!
    
    England to beat Germany in the final 3-1
    
    -Dom

    It could well be England v Germany in the Semi's,as they are favourites
    to win their group,and if France are as good as everyone think's,then
    we will come 2nd,after brushing aside Sweden and either the Slav's(or
    Denmark).
    
      I'll go for a France v England fiNAL.
    
    
    ENGLAND win.......to add that to the Grand Slam and the Cricket World
    Cup.
    
    Dave...

    Admitted, England does have a good side, but somehow they always seem
    to be kicked out before the finals.
    
    Rob
    

    
    Like i mentioned in another topic, it's a great advantage to strike
    from behind. England and France are the favourites in the group, and
    that takes the pressure away from Sweden. I hope our newspapers and
    commentators won't start talking about Semi's and finals, and i
    cincearly hope that a potential loss against France won't be concidered
    as the end of the world.
    
    Sweden played well against England in the world cup qualifications last
    time, even won the group. We won a friendly against Yugoslavia (4-3)
    last year and lost a friendly against France (4-2 i think). If we start
    by losing to France, the winning over Yugoslavia it's all up to the
    last game against England. And remember, we are playing on home ground!
    
    To be realistic, i don't think that we will make it, but my hopes are
    high!!
    
    Mats 

    
    I know that all you noters in europe don't take Sweden seriously, and i
    can't say i blame you. We haven't exactly rosed the market over the past
    years. But i will remember all your smiling faces when i put in my
    comment of the final of the championchip when Sweden beats Germany by
    2-1. :-)
    
    In the 50's we had a great hockey-player here in Sweden named Sven
    "Tumba" Johansson. He won two gold medals with Sweden. He was also a
    good football player and played for a first division club called
    Djurgarden. When he entered the field on a away-game, the home side
    sweeper said to him sarcasticly "Haven't you forgot your stick and
    skates?" Tumba didn't reply. In the first minute, Tumba got the ball,
    dribbled the sweeper and put the ball in the net. A few minutes later
    he got he ball again, nutmegged the sweeper, rounded the goalie and
    scored his second. He directly ran up to the sweeper an said;
    
    "This is really a fun sport, what did you say the name of it was?"
    
    
    Mats

    
    	I predict a Georgia v Croatia final, with Yeltsin heading the
    winner in the second half. 

    
    That last prediction is more possible than England actually winning
    this tournament !
    
    

    
    Australia  1  Sweden  0
    
    If this is the best team Sweden have then they need not bother
    turning up for the Euro finals ! I had the misfortune to watch 
    this game (on TV). They didn't deserve to lose, but there again
    with just one forward player they didn't deserve to win. Sweden
    only appeared to make a real effort after Australia scored in
    the 77th minute. There was a deliberate handball by an Australian
    in his own penalty area shortly afterwards but the referee in his
    first international didn't have the courage to award a penalty so
    he gave a free kick just outside the area, 6-8 feet from where 
    the offence took place !
    
    Australia was in Sweden's penalty area twice in the whole game.
    The funniest sight was watching four Australian defenders marking
    the single Swedish forward.

    
    Yes the Swedes gave the goal away, the ball was hoofed over the
    Swedish defence and the Aussie subsitute ran through with the 
    Swedish captain ahead of him in the race. The Swedish guy then
    tried to hook the ball back up the field but totally miskicked
    and fell over leaving the Aussie on his own just outside the
    penalty area. He finished it well but even the Australian press
    and manager admitted it was a lucky win. It's Australia's first
    win over a 'A' grade international team for 5 years, and only
    the 7th goal they've scored in the past 11 internationals.

    
    Australia   (0) 1   Sweden   (0) 0
    
    Another defeat. Another failure to score. More entertaining
    game to watch but the Swedish coach will have a job on his hands
    to produce a team capable of qualifying for the semi-finals of
    Euro 92.

    
    As Mats said in his reply this is not the team that will play this
    summer. I hope that only two of them will (Jan Eriksson and Stefan
    Rehn), and they seem to have done OK, juding from reports. What I
    really dont understand is why we did this tour at this time. Given the
    above it can not be looked upon as a "build-up" for this summer. The
    choice of geographical location is also strange. Why go round the globe 
    for a pre-season tour when the final event is taking place in our own
    back yard? Just exactly what did Svensson expect to learn in Australia?
    
    Maybe the whole point is to lure our opponents into a false sense of
    security? Germany in particular have been known to do this, on purpose
    or not is hard to say. I don't mind if the French and English think
    that this is the true standard of Swedish Football. 
    
    If that's the case, they could have picked some really top-class
    opposition for the friendlies prior to the competition. Unfortunately
    they haven't, we are going to play the likes of Wales and Norway again.
    There are lots a good nations, not qualified for the tournament, who
    should be available for friendlies. Italy, Ireland, Spain to name a
    few. Games against those nations would have helped us to sharpen our
    edge, without getting unnecessary flattering results. 
    
    What this tour unfortunately reveals is that we have no strength in
    depth, which makes us very vulnerable should key players like Limpar
    and Brolin be unavailable. That's a potential problem. A real problem
    is that we have a crap goalkeeper, and nobody seems to have noticed.
    Instead, I have heard Tomas Ravelli being described, by journalists as
    well as players and managers, as "one of the best keepers in Europe".
    What utter rubbish! I hasten to add that we we have noone who is
    better, and that's what *really* worries me.
    

    Mats,
    
    Wot no Glenn Hysen (:==:)
    
    regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks

    
    Well Andrew, Glenn isn't the same Glenn that played those brilliant
    games against Enland in the WC qualifications back in 89. 
    
    Currently he plays in a 1st division team here in Gothenburg called GAIS, 
    and he's doing pretty well. He isn't so fast that he used to be, but
    he's still strong in the air. He has a lot of routine, but misses the
    quality to be in the national squad.
    
    Glenn is one of the greatest defenders we ever had in Sweden, i'll never
    forget the game against England on Wembley, he was outstanding. After
    his career in Liverpool he has settled down and can spend more time
    with his family. I understand he wasn't that popular in Liverpool, but
    he sure was, and still is, popular here.
    
    Mats

    
    The rumour that Yugoslavia would be thrown out of the finals due to
    Serbian intervention in Bosnia now seems unfounded. A meeting of UEFA
    officials will apparently decide this morning to allow them to compete,
    thus leaving participation up to the consciences of individual
    countries competing against the Slavs. This may cause some problems
    since John Major has apparently called on the England team to boycott
    their opening match.
    
    But then again, who ever took any notice of that boring little prat.
    
    jeff

    
    
    Read in today's paper that UEFA have asked Denmark to 'stand by' while
    they evaluate political developments between Serbia/UN/EEC.
    
    This means that Englands first game looks like being against Denmark.
    
    
    Michael
    

    
    Yugoslavia are still in the European Championships. UEFA confirmed
    tonight that they  will still take part. It is widely though
    however that if the United Nations impose "Sporting" Sanctions on
    Serbia & Montenegro then UEFA will change their decision. UEFA would
    not confirm this though. 
    
    Derek. 
    

    
    
    According to the news this morning Mark Wright is out of the 
    European Championships and Tony Adams is likly to be the replacement.
    
    Can anyone throw any more light on this.
    
    Neil.....
     

    
    He's got a reoccurance of his achilies (sp ?) injury - the FA aren't
    happy because he went straight back to Liverpool after the Finland game
    and no one told England about the injury until late on Saturday.
        
    Paul

    
    If Wright is out, then why on earth are they contemplating taking that
    donkey Tony Adams. Surely there must be someone better than him !!:)
    
    How about the Players Player of the Year Gary Pallister !!???
    
    anyone but donkey adams
    
    
    just an opinion
    
    
    mac 

    
    Steve Bruce would be a better draught ???
    
    I would pick Terry Butcher before Pallister..
    Or even the Sheff Utd centre half who won the title for Leeds !@!
    
    Gary..
                                          

Thousands of football pro's CANT be WRONG..

    
    I don't know the reasoning behind Graham Taylor's choice of a
    replacment for Wright, why pick Adams he is not international class.
    Pallister would be my Choice as well.
    
    The question thats got to be answered is whats going on at Liverpool?.
    this is the latest in a few instances between England and the club,
    Why, they or Wright didn't let Taylor know before Saturday I don't know
    this isn't the first time all the liverpool players have withdrawn through
    injury. It does make you wonder whether it has anything to do with the
    fact, Souness isn't English.
    
    As usuall playing for England comes second.
    
           Neil......    
    

I have to admit too that either Palli or Bruce would be the best replacements for
Wright. Both have their critics, and neither will go down as "Great" footballers,
but at least they have some skill which is more than can be said for Adams.

On a good day Adams is as good as the Man U pair on one of their bad days.

God I'd choose Martin Hicks before Adams anyday.

Al ( President of the Tony Adams Fan Club :-) )

P.S. If Adams joins the squad I'm off to note 210.

    
    They only voted for him cos he's a nice guy !!
    
    
    Gary..

    
     With the departure of Mark Wright will Graham Taylor go back to
     playing the 4-4-2 system or stick with the sweeper, I think he'll
     play four at the back with Curle taken over at right back so I expect
     the starting line to be   
    
                                Woods
    
                  Curle     Walker    Keown   Pearce
    
                               Palmer
    
                   Steven      Platt       Webb  
                              
                       Merson       Lineker
    
    
      Neil...      

    Neil,
    
    I'm sure the Danes must be sh*tting themselves having to face that line
    up on Thursday.
    
    		Brian.

    
    I still think Taylor will start with a sweeper against the Danes,just
    using Curle instead of Wright.Leaving Stephen to cover the right
    side,which we know he can do.He can change it if it doesnt work,just
    moving Curle to right back.I think anyone from Merson,Shearer or Smith
    will partner Lineker.I think Merson did ok,last week against the
    Finns,so it will probably be him.He has the ability to run at defenders
    something the England team is lacking without Gascoigne,Barnes and
    Waddle.
    
    Dave...

re last

Trouble is Curle can't head a ball.

    RE:31
    
    Brian, what would you know about world class having witnessed a couple
    of the games in the U.S tournements I'd keep my mouth shut if I was
    you. That side was good enough to get us to the finals and will good
    enough to win it, so I suggest Ireland oil their Zimmer Frames and
    concentrate on trying to qualify for the World Cup....
    
     Neil....  

    
    	The absence of Wright is more (rather than less..) likely to
    	convince Taylor to play a *genuine* sweeper system by playing
    	Palmer as the sweeper. 
    
    	So far, the "sweeper" system England have toyed with has in fact
    	simply been a five-man defence, with none of the 3 centre-halves
    	being in any way ball-players who could comfortably bring the ball
    	forward. That's not the way any of the technically-superior
    	continentals (Holland, Italy, Germany, Denmark..) use or select
    	a sweeper.
    
    	The note a couple back had the likely line-up, with Palmer being
    	the "spare man" at the back.
    
    	jmo..
    
    	Andy.

    
    Re. Pallister
    
    I thought he was injured. Didn't he rupture a vein in his foot near the
    end of the season?
    
    Besides, I heard on the radio this morning that England will NOT be
    allowed another replacement, so Adams won't be going anyway (thank
    God).
    
    jeff

    
    After the qualifying game against Turkey at Wembley (when, as you may
    recall, England scraped a 1-0 win whilst being totally out-played),
    Graham Taylor said that we needed to play at international level more
    like we do at club level. In other words, we should play to our
    strengths rather than try to copy the opposition's tactics.
    
    Why then, just a few months later, are England going into the finals of
    a major championship playing with a continental-style sweeper when
    practically no team in the English league plays with such a system? Why
    aren't players being told to play their normal game, in a format
    they're used to and thus concentrating on the strengths of the English
    game?
    
    Answers please, on a postcard, to Graham Taylor, C/O The Hilton Hotel,
    Somewhere in Sweden.
    
    jeff

    
    Carlton Palmer will play sweeper.
    
    JN.

    
    With Curle in the squad, Taylor's got a number of options - he could
    play a flat back four with Curle at full back, or use a sweeper system
    using anyone of Walker, Curle or Keown as the sweeper, all three of
    them are fast, but limited in attacking capability. If he does play
    with a sweeper, he'll have to use either Palmer or Batty playing deep
    in midfield to collect the ball from the defence - lets hope he
    gets it right first time.
    
    Paul
                                                       

    JF, I watched the game on Dutch T.V. and at half time Gullit was
    asked for his opinion on the way the match was going, he said
    that the Dutch had had most of the possesion and had the game
    under control ! ..I think he must have been watching another
    match ;-) I was (as usual) very impressed with the French team
    and was pleased to see Eric doing well. They guy on the left wing
    was brilliant.
    I reckon that France and Holland will reach the final....which
    should be interesting as we will be on holiday at the time....
    in France...and my wife is Dutch ! ;-) 
    
    Salut
    
    Tim

    
    Your'e right about Jan Eriksson, Stefan. He is a suberb defender, and
    his mission tonight is to keep an eye on JPP. I certainly hope that he
    suceeds with that. It all depends on our midfield. If they have a good
    day and puts enogh pressure on the French, JPP won't get the balls he 
    want. Also must Ravelli in the goal have that extra luck a good goalie
    needs. Personally i can mention five other goalies that are much better
    than him, but Tommy Svensson gave him his confidence so i just hope he 
    wont be so week in the air that he uses to be.
    
    In my heart i have Sweden as winners by 3-0, but i think that the
    French is too strong for us. A defeat isn't the end of the tournament.
    We will most likely beat Denmark, and then it's all up to the game
    against England.
    
    Som Duchmen and Scots have already arrived to Gothenburg. Many of them
    don't have any tickets, but the hope to get some from ticket-scouts on
    the matchdays. In the presscenter it's all quiet. Most of the
    journalists is in Stockholm today. There will be 3500 accredited
    journalists here in Gothenburg, but only 1200 can watch the games. So
    most of them have see it on TV. I spoke to a Dutch news-reporter. He
    knew a lot about Dutch football and he was certain that Holland will win
    the tournament. He also said that most of the Dutch Journalists have
    the same feeling.
    
    Good luck to our boys tonight!!!
    
    Mats 

    
    Don't write yourselves off. I believe that Sweden will be
    OK this evening. France ain't all they're cracked up to be.
    Mid 1980s maybe but not now.
    
    JN.

    I guess the thing that makes me uncertain about Sweden is that I thoght
    they would do SO much better in the World Cup in 1990. They won the
    qualifying group over England, but were terrible in Italy. As the host,
    they didn't have any "real" matches, so it's hard to say how good they
    will be. Yes, playing at home should certainly help.
    
    Denmark appear to be the real wild card. It must have been tough to
    throw together a team at the last minute like this. Maybe they were
    planning a few friendlies, and had a different (more developmental)
    team together, with the emphasis on qualifying for 1994. The thing is,
    no one expects anything from the Danes, so there is no pressure. I
    think they will surprise someone in the tournament, but who will it be?
    
    France seem to me the best of the bunch -- Player for player, they appear
    to be head and shoulders above the rest. Their 100% record in a tough
    qualifying group says a lot. They will win it all.
    
    I don't like England's chances too much. It seems crazy, as someone
    pointed out, that they are playing a sweeper system that no one in the
    English league plays, instead of playing to their own strengths.
    Injuries won't help either.
    
    Tom  

    RESULT FROM SWEDEN.....
    
    
    SWEDEN....1.....FRANCE......1..

G'day,

	I watched the game at 4.15 am Australian time, and it wasn't too bad 
compared to normal tournament opening games, with 1-1 being a fair result.

	Sweden went ahead midway through the first half with a powerful header
scored by a defender (cant remember his name) from a corner. The scorer had
absolutely nobody marking him, which raises a few questions about France's 
defence. The commentator also said that France have not kept a clean scoresheet
for something like 8 or 9 games.

	Papin was fouled in the penalty area IMHO in the first half but Sweden
got away with it. Papin was marked out of the game for the most part, but did 
manage to get away once in the second half and punished Sweden by scoring a 
great goal.

	Late in the second half one of Swedens midfield players (sorry about 
the name again) got in a good header which was well saved.

	France played the more attractive football, but Sweden were very 
tenacious and kept closing them down.

	Best players for me were Limpar and the tall midfielder who nearly 
scored with a header in the second half for Sweden, and Cantona and the 
sweeper (No 5) who both made good runs and played some great balls for France.


						Dave.

    
    Hi,
    
    A few comments from ringside:
    
    .48 sums the game up well.
    
    I got in at 8pm, after being redirected around the fence which has been
    erected in a vast ring outside the stadium. The confusion and
    organization was bad, but I guess I expected even worse. I didn't have
    to put up with any of the opening ceremony nonsens, except for the last
    few minutes, but from my position they made no sense anyway. These
    things are obviously aimed at TV audiences.
    
    The athmosphere was electric from the start.
    
    France started very well, and Sweden struggled to get into the game.
    Then, from out of nowhere, Jan Eriksson climbs a yard above the rest
    and powers in 1-0. I couldn't beleive it, I had to look at the ref, the
    players, and the rest of the crowd before I  started cheering. Eriksson
    was my MOTM for Sweden.
    
    After the Swedish goal and until the French one, it was Sweden's game.
    It was fun to see how confused the French team were. Just before the
    second half, seven of the French players, including Papin & Cantona,
    were assembled in the mid-circle wildly discussing tactics! Apparently
    Platini had failed to come up with anything that convinced them during
    the break.
    
    Anyway, after the Frech goal, they took over again, and Sweden lost
    their confidence. They then started to play the long ball towards
    Kenneth Andersson, but Laurent Blanc handled those easily. He was my
    MOTM for France, a brilliant Footballer.
    
    From my position near the corner flag it is no doubt that France were
    denied a penalty when Papin was brought down. The ref was terrible overall.
    
    Ingesson had a great chance to score the decider, but Martini made a
    fantastic save.
    
    Ravelli had one shot at goal, which he conceded. We have come to expect
    as much.
    
    Thern and Limpar were brilliant during Sweden's good spell, but like
    the rest of the team reluctant when France took over.
    
    Roland Nilsson was disappointing throughout. He was far too hesitating
    to go for the ball.
    
    Cantona I never noticed (nor Papin but for that fatal moment).
    
    A great game, and although a bit disappointed, a draw was a fair
    result.
    
    Denmark vs England tonight. I really want them both to lose.
    
    
    	cheers,
    
    		Stefan

    Sweden played very hard in midfield and gave the French no time at all
    to settle on the ball and when Eriksson scored I thought France were
    finished, however Papin scored a tremendous equaliser and the game
    ended 1-1. A few nasty tackles especially from Swedes, I was
    dissapointed in Limpar who put the boot in on numerous occasions and
    the player who was booked for fouling Angloma was IMO lucky to stay on
    the park. He made no attempt for the ball. Angloma was also cautioned
    for a wild challenge. The ref also denied France a certain penalty in
    the Eriksson-Papin incident. I hope that did not set the standard of
    refereeing for the rest of the tournament.
    
    Kev...

    
    After watching the game live, i couldn't help feeling that we lost a
    point. We had 1-0, and the defence and the midfield were controlling
    the game. Then i switched to Eurosport and saw the game a second time,
    and i changed my opinion.
    
    The first 15-20 minutes was full of misstakes. Both teams tried things
    way above there skills level. The Swedish goal was a beauty. Tommy
    Svennson said afterwards that they had been practising that type of
    corner a hundred times, it's nice to see it work in a game. Jan
    Erikssons foul on JPP was indeed a penalty, and i agree that the ref
    was crap the whole game.
    
    The beginning of the second looked very good for Sweden, but with lots 
    of misstakes in the passes. The french goal started with a misstake 
    from Ingesson who failed to dribble a french defender. In the
    counter-attack, the Swedish defence tried a push-up, but Patrik
    Andersson was far too slow. The goal is his blame.
    
    After the equalizer the tempo slowed down and everyone seemed happy
    with a draw. France had most of the possesion of the ball, and their
    passing-game was better then Swedens. The Swedish defence played very
    well, exept for that misstake in the second. I'm dissapointed in
    Kenneth Andersson and Tomas Brolin, they have to play more aggressively
    in the next games. MOM was Jonas Thern IMO. Both Blanc and Cantona
    played very well. JPP must be the most lethal scorer in Europe. The way
    he finished that pass is cheer class. I'm happy with a draw. It's one
    point more than most Sweden had expected.
    
    I hope for an English win tonight. It will make things easier when we
    meet Denmark on sunday.
    
    Mats                                     

This was definitely one of the most entertaining tournament opening matches
for ages. I missed the first 15 minutes, but once I got down to watch, the Swedes
were starting to put the squeeze on the French, and made them look very ordinary
indeed. I too thought that the French were dead once Erikson's bullet of a header
went in. They looked disorganised and hadn't looked threatening at all, although
Papin should definitely have had a penalty when Erikson brought him down.

The start of the second half saw the Swedes playing as they'd ended the first.
They looked dangerous coming forward, and Limpar stood out for me as their best
player. He wasn't scared to take the defenders on, and managed to get into 3/4
dangerous positions.

Then out of nowhere, Up pops JPP, with a clinical finish, and hey presto the
French have an undeserved equaliser. However, once they'd scored, their whole 
attitude changed, and they started playing as a team, and finished the stronger
side.

I hope this is just a taste of what we are to see in the next 2 weeks.

I too thought the ref had a poor game. With the penalty in the 1st half, and the
thing that stood out for me was Cantona's booking in the second. Two players 
chasing the ball. The swede loses his balance causes eric to lose his. In trying
to keep upright Eric accidently steps on the rolling swede and gets booked.

Neither of these teams are going to be easy to beat. England need to win tonight
to have any chance of progressing ( Just IMO )

Al

    
    Not a bad game,but I must admit I was dissapointed with the French.I
    think they could have gone on to win it in the last 20 minutes.They
    seemed to settle for a draw very early,and they didnt exactly look the
    world beaters they are made out to be.Papin proved he only needs one
    real chance,good goal.As they showed at Wembley,they look very
    dodgy on crosses.I'll bet neither team struck fear into the rest of the
    teams in the tournement.
    
      Talking of Commentators,who was working Jack Charlton,someone should
    tell that muppet,this is the European Championship's and not the World
    Cup,and ITV wonder why they lost the TV coverage.
    
      If England get off to a wining start tonight we will be in a good
    position.
    
      COME ON ENGLAND !!!!
    
     Dave...

    
    	Well I thought it was pretty poor, Swdens No6 was good but Papin was 
    the only class player on the pitch - great goal. 
    
    	No danger for Holland or Germany from these two teams. In fact
    going on last nights performance EVEN England might qualify for the
    semis.
    
    	Opening ceremony was almost more exciting.
    
    
    		Steve

    
    I thought it was a reasonable game.  Not a classic but certainly not a
    bore.  The result was just about right on the 90 minutes but I sensed
    the Swedes were just taking control when Papin equalised.  This was a
    real quality strike and his value to the French side is immense. 
    Lineker and Van Basten are just as important to England and Holland.
    
    Both sides will be reasonably happy with the draw.  This group should
    be pretty tight.  I expect another draw tonight.
    
    Gary.

    Was I the only one to notice that "haircut" on top of the head of the
    Sweden left back Bjorkland ???  That has to be the worst haircut to
    grace a major international tournament since Carlos Valderama.
    
    Not a bad game, I thought Jack Charlton was excellent as the analyst on
    ITV, look forward to hearing more from him.
    
    Tonight :
    Denmark 1 England 1
    Laudrup   Pratt
    
    		Brian.
    

    
    
     What ever side Taylor picks tonight we will be to strong for the 
     Danes so I expect a comfortable 2-0 win......
    
     Also I don't expect to much trouble from the other two sides 
     in the group after last nights game, France were very dissapointing
     they had the win in there grasp and settled for the draw. Boring.
    
     Also another plus, tonights game will be shown on BBC1..........
     
     COME ON ENGLAND!!!!
    
        Neil...       

    Neil,
    
    Jack Charlton is neither called Michael nor is he Irish.  The last
    thing he is is thick.  Can you explain the title of your last note
    please.
    
    Thanks,
    Brian	
    

    Since the French have a Jocelyn playing for them can I assume 
    that Graham Taylor will draught in a Shirley for Sunday's match?
    
    barry.

    Speaking of Jack Charlton. Did anyone else think he was drunk on
    TV last night ? IMHO he was out of it 8-)

    
    Speaking of Elton Wellesby. Did anyone else think he was a total
    dickhead on TV last night? IMHO he should be garrotted.
    
    jeff

    
    He's always been a total D*ckhead - what did he do last night that was
    so special ?
    
    - will he be rightsized when ITV accept they've got virtually no 'real'
    football to televise ?
    
    Did you know his real name's Roger Welsby ?
    
    
    Paul

    Well chaps, I never thought I would see the day when English noters are
    complaining about commentators. Usually they are so baised TOWARDS
    England you guys don't bother but when the shoe's on the other foot..
    
    A tip I was given around the time of Italia '90 by a friendly English
    noter who got a bit fed-up with my complaining about bias would work
    for you as well.
    
    Turn the sound down.
    
    Simple innit ?
    
    Kev... 8-) 

>>>          <<< Note 152.65 by AYOV16::KMCCLELLAND "The Honest Truth" >>>

>>>    Well chaps, I never thought I would see the day when English noters are
>>>    complaining about commentators. 
    
    You're joking aren't you ?
    
    Have you ever seen anyone in here write a good word about the shower
    that commentate for BBC or ITV ?
    
    Paul          

    
    The most biased commentator in England is John Motson. He's also
    probably the most unpopular since most football fans prefer objective
    commentry to unfettered bias. 
    
    Besides which, Elton Wellesby isn't a commentator. He's a...er... well
    I'm not quite sure what he is, actually.
    
    jeff

    He is actually an Everton fan which will produce groans in certain 
    quarters of this conference.
    
    barry.

           <<< TRUCKS::DISK$USER72:[NOTES$LIBRARY]FOOTBALL.NOTE;1 >>>
>>                                 -< FOOTBALL >-
>>================================================================================
>>Note 152.66                   Sweden '92 - GROUP I                      66 of 67
>>BLKPUD::WATTERSONP                                   11 lines  11-JUN-1992 16:26
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
>>    You're joking aren't you ?
  
    NO !
      
>>    Have you ever seen anyone in here write a good word about the shower
>>    that commentate for BBC or ITV ?
    
>>    Paul          
    
    Well Paul yes i have. In the old (archived) conference i was taken to
    task for complaining about the "EBC" and other such typically Scottish
    moans and some people did in fact back them up. Strange as it may seem
    
    Kev... 
    

>>                     <<< Note 152.68 by ARRODS::OHAGANB >>>
>>                     -< Elton Welsby's Gravest Hits Vol I >-

>>    He is actually an Everton fan which will produce groans in certain 
>>    quarters of this conference.
    
  So's was Ed ' Stewpot' Stewart - I didn't like him either..................
    
    Paul

    
    
    	Re .69.
    
    	Wrong. You weren't taken to task about the shitty English
    commentators, nobody would ever argue with that. You were taken to task
    about the fact that you were still moaning about Englands third goal in
    the 1966 world cup final.
    
    	

    
    Famous Everton supporters of our time:
    
    Elton Wellesby and Ed "Stewpot" Stewart.
    
    Says it all really, doesn't it.
    
    jeff

	And this evening's Winner is....
	
	Denmark 0  - England 0
	
	Here in France we couldn't watch the game, telly was on strike!!! 
	I just heard a quick comment on the radio when it was all over:
	- It was not a boring game
	- Schmeical (sp ?) did a good job
	- One dane hit woodwork
	- England had the most and best scoring chances 

	Looks all set to be an interesting few games to decide who drops
	out...
	
							.Andre.

P.S: Jamie, well done that exotic prediction of yours!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        Denmark - England   0 - 0
    
    What a boring game. This was the first time I didn't finish watching a
    great tournament game. I think Denmark desirved a goal the most. If
    the other games also gonna be such boring.......
    
    I still remember Germany 88. That was such a great event. All good
    games. Lots of goals, and much more public in the stadiums. That was
    such a great organisation. Maybe that's the difference between a real
    soccer country and a Ice hockey/handbal country.
    
    
    R

    
    
     Well a disapointing start to the campaign with a draw against
     Denmark who were quite honestly awful but I'm afraid England wasn't
     much better, England totally dominated the first half and were lucky
     not to go in at half time two or three up with efforts from Platt,Smith
     and Merson, whatever was put in the tea at half time certainly didn't
     help England who lost there way completly and Denmark were unlucky not
     score when they hit the post Englands defence was pulled about ragged
     and if they were up against a decent side would have been punished
     the midfield lacked flair or creativity so the forwards didn't have
     any service......
    
     England never start to well in these competitions and they never win
     there opening game but I'm afraid it does look as if England havn't
     got the quality to do well in these championship. 
    
     Taylor was frothing after the game though he tried to put on a brave
     face by saying the result was "satifactory"  But they didn't lose
     and all four teams are on one point, roll on Sunday.
    
     Englands team    Woods
                      Curle/Daley
                      Keown
                      Walker
                      Pearce
                      Steven
                      Platt
                      Palmer
                      Merson/Webb
                      Lineker
                      Smith
    
       Neil.....
    
                     
                      

    Hi Stefan,
    
    Mr R is not German at all. He doesn't like to be mentioned a German,
    because he's dutch. I didn't meen your team, but the capacity of the
    stadiums, and the prices of beer for instance. Dutch fans can't go to
    Sweden, simply because they can't effort it. That's a pitty.
    
    I agree with your comments on last nights game. For me Sweden is big
    favourite in Group 1.
    
    Congratulations with reaching the semi's. (I know you're going to make
    that) !!!
    
    
      R= Robert (I feel we're gonna beat Germany 2-1)

    Well, what a load of rubbish.  Denmark were awful and England were
    worse.  Curle and Palmer were an embarrassment, Lineker didn't get kick
    and the defense on the whole were a shambles.
    
    England have taken a step back since Italia 90.  There isn't one player
    with an ounce of creativity in the squad let alone last night's team. 
    Even Taylor was an embarrassment in the after match interview, and you
    guys thought Big Jack was bad Wednesday.
    
    I expect France and Sweden are rubbing their hands with anticipation
    after watching that cr*p.
    
    		Brian.

    
    I thought on the whole England were rubbish, but better than Denmark. 
    I watched the game live in France - the tele wasn't on strike where I
    live).  England deserved to win just, their good points...
    
    Everybody pushed up on the Danes, stopping them from creating anything,
    especially in the first half.
    The overall team work rate.
    Des Walker, and most of the time Stuart Pearce.
    
    
    Their bad points...
    
    Palmer!!!
    The other half of the defence.
    Their ideas once they got close to goal!  There weren't any.
    
    
    The ref. was a bit inconsistent, the first booking was harsh, the
    second should have been a red card, and their was another incident that
    should have been a booking that wasn't.  I was surprised by the
    physical nature of England's play.
    
    
    For Sunday, England need to keep Daley, and find someone who can be
    creative in midfield, is there anyone else in the squad who can play
    this role?  England played far too many long balls.
    
    My next suggestion will probably get me crucified, drop Lineker!  He
    did nothing, not neccesarily his fault, but Merson and Smith can do the
    same job, and got more involved last night.
    
    Ian

    I only saw the second half, because of this $#%&*#$ strike in France.
    We had to search a bar where we could watch it.
    The second half, I thought, was completely for the Danes. Maybe I was
    influenced by the fact that in this bar the only people screaming like
    mad with every ball an English player touched or looked at was English.
    
    I do not know about the first half. The English in the bar told me it
    was dominated by the English, but the Danes over there told the
    opposite.
    
    I would like to hear an objective opinion pls.
    
    Bart.
    
    ps.  If the Dutch team scores as many goals as the Dutch referee gave
         Yellow Cards tonight will be ok.
    

    
    .79
    
>    Mr R is not German at all. He doesn't like to be mentioned a German,
>    because he's dutch. I didn't meen your team, but the capacity of the
>    stadiums, and the prices of beer for instance. Dutch fans can't go to
>    Sweden, simply because they can't effort it. That's a pitty.
    
    Sorry for jumping to conclusions. I can agree on the above, because
    it's a regrettable fact. Howvber it does not imply that Sweden is in
    any was less a Football country (I never use the word s*****) than
    others.
    
    No hard feelings, case closed.
    
    cheers,
    
    	Stefan

    I'm glad we have the same opinion.
    
    Have a nice weekend, and especially a nice SUNDAY. I hope you guys beat
    Denmark. England won't be a problem four your team.
    
    Cheers,
    
        Robert

    
    After last night's battle of the giants, I'm sure the rest of Europe is
    quaking in their boots. With laughter, that is.
    
    A game of two halves, both of which were crap. England seemed to have
    achieved some form of dominance in the first, with Smith, Platt, Merson
    and Keown all having chances, but were left hanging on in the end when 
    Jenson and Laudrup squandered the best two openings. England's
    half-time team talk must have gone something like this:
    
       "Forget about the chances you created in the first half by
        passing the ball and just hit long balls towards Smithy."
    
    Daley came on for Curle and made an immediate impact, with a couple of
    good runs and forced a good save from Schmichael. This was obviously
    not what was required since he was then moved to left wing where he
    received not one decent pass and made no other contribution. Of the
    rest of the team, Walker and Pearce were solid (and didn't they need to
    be), Smith played well without much support and Merson seemed the only
    inventive England player on the pitch. For Denmark, Laudrup looked
    dangerous and really ought to have scored in the second half.
    
    On this evidence, both these teams will be departing early from Sweden.
    
    jeff

    
    	Denmark 0 - 0 England
    
    	Crap game. Only Denmark (marginally..) deserved to win the game.
    	Nil all was about right.
    
    	England have more difficult games ahead, and will need to improve
    	on this showing to progress further. France and Sweden look good
    	bets to qualify at the moment..
    
    	Andy. 

    >>   England.I only wish Scotland had been in this group, they would easily
    >>   have beaten both the teams on show last night.
    
    Ha Ha!! Wish all you want! As it is they'll end up bottom of their own 
    group.
    
    Ian.

What more can I say but " What a load of ole TOSH!!!!! "

The best part of the program was Jimmy Hill being his usual imitable self!

Si...

    Bad points - Palmer and Curle , don't ever let them near an England
    shirt again!
    
    Good points - err...umm...well I suppose Daley made a sort of impact
    when he came on... Oh yes, our secret weapon, the post making a good
    save.
    
    Taylors interview after was embarrasing to watch, the squirming little
    git.
    
    Stevo
    

    
    I only wish Scotland were in the same group as England,they are crap.
    From what I saw last night Scotland would beat Denmark and England
    EASILY.
    
    Carlton Palmer is a donkey......as is half the English defence, just as 
    well Walker was there to mop up his team mates mistakes.

    
    
    >>   Ha Ha!! Wish all you want! As it is they'll end up bottom of their 
    >>   own group.
    
    
    Wait and see!!! At least they didn't think they could WIN the
    tournament like England did.

    The German commentator had a good comment about Walker:
    
    "This is the guy that Taylor claims is the best in the world for his
    position. Well he obviously hasn't seen anyone else......"
    
    A terrible game that the Danes could have won. To see guys like Curle
    having to resort to petty fouls (shirt pulling etc.) to try and contain
    his man says a lot for the standard of English football.
    
    	- Robin......

    Glad to see England following on from where they finished in '88.
    
    At the bottom and staying there...........
    

    
    	Re .93 well I can tell you friend, I never thought England would win 
    the competition, they are crap, as was proved last night. The only thing 
    is the rest of the teams in the group are also crap. I reckon the group
    will finish up France, Denmark, England, Sweden.
    
    	If Denmark had have had a bit more confidence they would have won
    last night. As a City fan it was a relief to me when the Danes stopped
    passing the ball to Laudrup and also when Taylor took Keith Curle off.
    Brian Laudrup was by far the best player on the pitch, and Curle just
    could not cope. And Laudrups been off form this season! (Probably becasue 
    he's had to play for Bayern Munich) To be fair to Curle though, doesn't
    England have a recognised right back, or did Taylor just 'forget'?
    Culre is a central defender not a full back. Where's Paul Parker or
    even that guy who plays for Arsenal! 
    
    	Whose side was Carlton Palmer on? Was he there just to confuse the
    opposition? Because if he was, it backfired. On the good side (!),
    Merson, Walker, Pearce, Lineker and possibly Smith.
    
    	By the way Mr Spersson, the Dutch guy is right, that was a crap
    stadium. (And I thought the English ones were bad!)
    
    
    		Steve - who is having his rightsizing operation today.

My 2cents

Last night was the first time I'd seen Palmer. I could do a better job than him!!
All I can say is bring back Tony Adams!!! :-)

I missed most of the 1st half putting up a shed, so I missed the England
domination!! 

Walker & Pearce were their usual solid selves but the rest of the defense looked
very vulnerable.

I hope Wright is passed fit tomorrow, coz they definitely need someone more solid
in the defense. I remember twice in the second half when Trevor Steven had to
bail out the defense.

I think Merson was unfortunate to be replaced, he seemed to be having a good game
( In comparison to the rest of the team that is!! ) (What's wrong with me that's
2 Arsenal players that have impressed in the last to days. Anyone got any
aspirin??) Daley should be in the starting lineup on Sunday, and be given a free
role. He looked dangerous once he came on, but only until he switched to the
left.

At least England have got 1 point more than they got in Germany '88 so I suppose
that the tournament has been a great success already ;-)

Al

Re: .97

Steve, Curle is the 5th choice right back - Parker's injured, Rob Jones is
injured, Lee Dixon is injured and finally Gary Stevens is injured. So Taylor
brought in a right sided defender, ie Curle. Not ideal but what can you do?

Hope your right sizing  op goes OK -)

Jamie

My 2 cents worth...

Without doubt the worst game in recent memory and for Taylor to say that he was
satisfied is a joke. I was hoping the interviewer would shoot him and put us all
out of our collective misery. For once I agreed with Jimmy Hill last night when
he said that here was a group of players simply not earning the vast sums of
money they are paid.

At the start England looked good until they got into the penalty area. After
they failed to score they simply exhausted their obviously shallow resevoir of
ideas. As for the second half !! Well,did anyone see that documentary on
prostitution over on ITV ? 

Curle was simply out of his depth,Keown wasn't a lot better and although  Palmer
worked quite hard he has crap when it came to anything constructive. I remember
that one cross he headed into the outfield as Smith (intended receiver?) just
stood back in disgust.  Not a bad game from Merson and Walker saved our bacon a
few times; Daley made a little difference after he came on but even he got bored
after a while.

The last 20 minutes were just agony to watch. They reminded me of all those
German league games I used to watch in Munich 8-) Must admit I was just as upset
as the Danes when that ball came back off the post.

    
    Hello,
    
    	Did any one out there notice the friction between Terry V. & the
    Chin , last night ??
    
    	I find it surprising that football commentators continually praise
    	a very poor England side and really do think that their team are
    	capable of winning everything in sight . Terry said that he thought
    	England would win by 2-3 goals last night . Perhaps a tad over 
    	confident . 
    	
    	Waken up and start coming to terms with the fact that England are
    	simply an ordinary footballing team !
    
    	Ok , you can say that Scotland are a very average side but we
    accept this. We do not expect to go out and win championships . We do
    	expect to conduct ourselves well and give 100% . Thats all .
    	
    	

  Having endured last night's spectacular, showered Lurpak at the 
  televison, cursed the obvious bias of the Danish.. sorry Dutch referee, I
  found myself musing on how games in big tournaments often end in a 
  ( bore ) draw. I know that in the knockout stages extra time is played
  but then we have the anathema to all true football lovers - The Penalty
  Shoot Out.

  How can we get round this knotty problem. Simple...

  National Anthems.

  Lets face it the Danish anthem went on a bit, most the others are non-descript
  ( Les Marsielles (sp ) , like the French side has its moments of flair
   but then loses its way - and the German anthem can be seen by some as
    a cue for some mis-placed jingoism ).

  The English Nachunal Annfem is quite honestly the cat's knackers and on
  this alone England should be runaway winners of the Championship.


  Back to the medication,


  M.C Mixmaster Stu
   

  
    Another great start for the English, what an awesome side...!!!!!! Well at
least they have one more point than in Euro 88.... The only English players that
played football were Merson and walker, and Daley when he came on. Barnes and
Wright are probably glad they are at home. Man of the match was easily Brian
Laudrup who took them apart when ever he wanted to....... 
   
     Q: Who's gonna score Englands first goal????

     A: No one....

       The supporters memories of Sweeden will probably be paying approx 5 quid
for a pint......

                                                               -dave-
                                

    
    
    The first half was even and the second half was even worse.  :-)
    
    Denmark looked by far the better footballing side but England were
    stronger and more dangerous especially on set pieces.  0-0 was the
    right result.  I thought England defended very well although the Danes
    lacked some punch up front.  Ladrup was the best player on the field.
    
    Taylor should be a politician.  His interview after the game was a
    joke.
    
    Lineker was anonymous but any talk of dropping him is crazy.  He's a
    world class finisher and his value to England is immense.  Nobody
    created any chances for him.
    
    The Danes defence was suspect.  Their marking for set pieces was very
    poor.
    
    This group will be very tight.  Any of the 4 sides could still qualify
    but none look like potential winners.  Hopefully Holland and Germany
    will set the tournament alight this evening.
    
    Gary,

    Going back to Hill Vs Vegetables
    
    There did seem to be a bit of friction. Hill was ranting and
    raving about what a poxy game it was and what a crap side we
    have. I reckon Vegetables thought exactly the same thing but
    could not bring himself to criticise a fellow manager. Maybe
    he felt pity for Taylor ?

    
    What Venables said about Jimmy Hills boxing match analogy i thought was
    quite correct,
    
    "its not winning on points that counts, its the knockout punches"
    
    Jimmy Hill though, i think, went way over the top in his criticisms of the
    England team, after all, what did you expect?
    
    Ian.
    

    
    	National anthems? Yep, that's why the Cameroons did so well in the
    world cup.
    
    	Old ground revisited;
    
    	Why are the top half dozen teams in the first division better than
    the national team? (And NO it's not because all the players are Irish -
    just to pre-empt the predictable reply.)
    
    	Why are most of the games in international tournaments so boring?
    No wonder the Yanks don't wnat to watch football.
    
    		

    
    Methinks Taylor decided what he was going to say before the match even
    kicked off. He seems determined to belligerent and defend his players
    from all criticism in public, but I very much doubt if was as
    "satisfied" when talking to the players in private.
    
    Taylor can't be blamed for blatant misses such as those by Palmer,
    Keown and Platt or for the injuries which have robbed him of the
    country's best four right-backs. However, he can be blamed for tactics
    which saw England adopt a poor version of the long ball game in the
    second half and for switching Daley to the left just when he looked
    dangerous on the right. England may of course improve in the next
    matches but if they don't they'll exit this championship in more
    disgrace than four years ago.
    
    jeff

    We were no better than the Danes on the night and we are no better
    than the Danes anyway. You are fooling yourself if you think 
    otherwise. English football at International Level is a strange beast. 
    We qualify for most competitions and usually do fairly well in terms of 
    placings (Euro 88 withstanding). However, when you look at the skill 
    level in our game we are definitely one of football's poorer nations. 
    
    Twenty one or so games have gone by since the weasel took charge and 
    in all honestly how many of those games have produced entertaining 
    football on our behalf? You'd be struggling to find half a dozen. In 
    that time the Turks and the Cameroon have outplayed us with some 
    breathtaking moments of magic. Was'nt it Bobby Robson, amongst others, 
    who said that the great divide between the traditionally stong 
    Europeans/South Americans and the rest of the "developing" football 
    world no longer exists. While they develop we stagnate or progress at 
    a snails pace. Sure, every now and then we may produce a Gazza but 
    when you think about it around 15-20 years ago there were a number
    of players of this man's ability turning out every Saturday. 
    
    Where's the problem? Who's responsible? What's the soloution? Who 
    cares? Certainly not a certain element within the FA who advocate 
    the use of the long ball in favour of the pass. Are they still there? 
    If so shoot them. The bigger clubs churn out atheletes with mediocre 
    skills suited to the frantic pace of the Football League. The Football
    League produces Palmers and Battys and Keowns who do well in our
    League but get them on the international stage and they appear to
    the discerning viewer at best workmen-like with limited skill, at worst 
    examples of the lack of imagination and vulgarity inherent in the 
    English game. Where were the likes of Rocastle and Le Tissier last
    night? I'd rather play with this type of player and lose with style 
    than have a team of Palmers & Keowns and win the World Cup. Now
    theres an admission. 
    
    barry.
    
    barry.   
    

    Whoops. Slight mistake. The Cameroon match was under Bobby Robson.
    Hardly any difference you might say and I'd agree.
    

    
    Re -1,  Actually Barry I think England have declined considerably under
    Taylor despite the unbeaten record.  Englad are more difficult to beat
    but are devoid of flair and imagination.  Gascoigne may not even have
    played had he been available.
    
    Gary.

    
    Bl**dy hell !!!
    
    Why's everyone being so depressed ?
    
    Okay so England didn't play well - but at least they didn't lose the
    first game as in; 
    
    Germany (vs Ireland) or Mexico (vs Portugal)
    
    With a bit of luck England could have gone 2-0 up in the first half, as
    it was they needed some luck to stay at 0-0. In the early games, good
    performances count for nothing, it's points that are important - and as
    bad as England were yesterday, they're still level with the rest of the
    group.
    
    There's at least two more games to play yet - lets leave the inquests
    until then.
    
    Paul  

Well said Paul!


It was still a CRAP game though!

    No, I think the inquests should start now and be backdated to the 
    early eighties. I'm not depressed, I'm angry. 
    
    barry. 

    Get real boyz. Read my lips:
    
    
    ENGLAND
    
    
    ARE
    
    
    
    CRAP !!!

Do you want the good news or the bad news???

The bad News:

	UEFA has told Taylor that he cannot replace Wright

The good news:

	Adams won't be going to Sweden :-)

Al

(To all Arsenal fans: I promise won't slag off Adams again -
                        Until next season that is :-) 

    
    Re .115, but not as bad as Luton eh Dave.  :-)
    
    Re .116, this is a major boost to England's chances.  Maybe a special
    plea from the other 3 countries in the group might cause UEFA to have a
    change of heart.
    
    Gary.

>>The bad News:
>>	UEFA has told Taylor that he cannot replace Wright
	
	Oh Dear, how unfortunate, never mind.....  
	No apparently Managers aren't allowed to play in this championship *8]
	
>>The good news:
>>	Adams won't be going to Sweden :-)

	Yeah, rumour has it he's helping with the demolition of the North Bank.
			
			He's kicking it down....  *8]

>>(To all Arsenal fans: I promise won't slag off Adams again -
>>                        Until next season that is :-) 

	I don't know about you lot, but by the way Smith played last night
	me thinks big Georgy' 'l sell the geek'........

	Daley & 'The Merse' played averagely last night, however in comparison
	they certainly shone through the 'satisfactory England team'..
	
			Cheers Alboy.

	P.S.  Any news on the Jocko' side??....Lets face it, we can't really
	loose can we........
	

	Sorry I haven't read all the comments on England v Denmark but the few 
I have read have it right when they critise the manager, tactics and general 
level of skill. What seemed to be missing was the usual directness which can 
upset continental teams. Though playing hard and fast doesn't buy you anything 
if the opposition has skill in all positions.

	Last night, and no one else has said it Merson and then Daley failed 
utterly, and it was really shown up when Daley having failed against the left 
back (two quick moves then nothing) was moved to the left to face Sivabeck (sp
?). The net result was that Sivabeck had the run of the Danish right, so total 
was his dominance he could bottle up Daley and start to make attacking plays.

	As for the rest who was meant to provide the forwards or Platt with 
thru' balls? Was the mid-field playing?

	As for the Danes they arrived looking for a draw, discovered that they 
could win it and only lack of match practise - no rehursted set plays - 
stopped final passes arriving just in front of strikers. The next game should 
see Denmark sharper and more together but what will happen to the England 
squad I wouldn't guess at.

	Anyway you can always switch your allegiance to the Scotland squad, 
for this afternoon anyway which is about as long it will last I'm sad to say.
Then again maybe ...

  

    
    	Ah yes Eamon Dunphy. It seems he is a good judge of international 
    football managers. An Irish hero maybe?

    
    	If England are going to improve on last night's "performance"
    	then Taylor *must* drop Alan Smith. He is *still* a camel.
    	
    			Woods
    	Curle 	Walker 		Keown 	Pearce
    			Palmer      
    	Steven 	Platt 		Webb 	Merson
    			Lineker
    
    	That would be my side from what's available.
    
    	Paul W's right, though. Wait 'til the three games are over before
    	writing the obituaries. Last night was rubbish, but it's not 
    	finished yet..
    
    	Andy.
                                                    

    
    Another stunning bore draw !!
    
    England 0 France 0
    
    Obituary to follow later....
    
    Keith.

    What's the chance's of ENGURLAND scoring a goal before the tournament
    ends.   

    
    
    Sweden 1 Denmark 0
    England 0 France 0
    
    Sweden look set for the semi finals and deservedly so.  On yesterday's
    show neither France nor england deserve to join them but France
    probably will.
    
    Gary.

			Woods

			Palmer
		Keown		Walker
	Sinton				Pearce

			Batty
	Platt				Steven

		Linker		Shearer


IMO, 'Donkey' Palmer played well in his sweeper role.

Shearer put in a good performance as well. England
are still short of some creative talent in midfield.

Is it true that FIFA are investigating the Boli-Pearce
incident???

    
    
    I think Boli did what many English First Division players have 
    been wanting to do for a long time,  but have been too scared.
    Luckily for Boli England and France don't look like meeting again in
    this tournament.
    
    Chris
    
    BTW   spare us the England are crap notes lads, we know.
    

    Only slightly more annoyed about the England game than I didn't find
    this note a little earlier.
    
    I'd really like to know what Taylor asked his midfield to do 'cause
    from what I could see it looked like try and group together on the
    left hand side of the pitch and trip over each other.
    
    Why wasn't Daly on running against the S_l_o_w_e_d down Amoros,
    England needed a Gascoine in the middle, if he's fit enough for
    Lazio and for them to cough up 5 miilion pounds, then he should
    be in the England squad.....
    
    At least we play second on Wednesday...
    
    -Dom

    I think the matches will be played at the same time on Wednesday.
    And that's better like that , England , Denmark and France needs now to
    win, so we may hope to see better matches.
    
    Thierry

    
    A much improved performance from England with Calton Palmer fitting
    in well into the the sweepers role, France were disapointing and from
    there team selection were quite happy to go for the draw, Englands
    defence was a lot more solid than it was against the Danes and only
    allowed France to have one effort from Papin which brought a fine save
    from Woods..
    
    The second half England could have won it with Shearer going close with
    diving header after some fine work from Lineker, and Platt shooting just
    over the crossbar, France also had a chance to go one up when
    Eglomer(sp) had a header knocked off the line after England allowed him
    to have a free header, but the highlight of the game was Pearce's free
    kick he struck it from all of 20 yards bent it around the wall with the
    goalkeeper well beaten it struck the underside of the crossbar and
    bounced to saftey, this would have been a perfect reply to Boli who
    just before this had nutted Pearce in what I can only described as
    one the most outragous incidents I've seen in football and I'm sure
    this isn't the last we've heard of this.
    
    So England have now got to go to Stockholm and win, which is easier
    said than done with England finding it hard to hit the back of the net
    but the thing is we will create chances and sooner or later one or more
    of these will go in. Sweden are suspect at the back and I fully expect
    England to exploit this.....So I'm sticking with my prediction of 
    England 3  Sweden 0......
    
     Neil.... 
     
       
    

    So far :-
    
    England Denmark - poor, but England get a point.
    France-Sweden - better, France don't look wonderful though.
    England-France - getting better, but England seem to have lost the goal
    scoring touch. Pearce had a very good try, the head butt (?) from Boli
    seemed to gee them up a bit.
    Sweden-Demark - only saw limited highlights, Sweden were better than a
    poor Denmark.
    
    I expect France and England to go through - ie England must win on
    Wednesday, France must at least draw 1-1.
    
    So far, there are no really poor teams / really good teams in the
    Tournament.
    
    jb. 

    
    Man of the match for me was Palmer, dispite what I've said about
    him in the past. Lineker was marked out of the game. Shearer ran
    his legs of.
    
    IMO a much better England performance. Did anyone notice how wound
    up the team became after the Pearce head butting incident ? The last
    15 minutes was fairly close for France not to concede a goal.
    
    I've said in another note that Lineker should not be Captain. Give it
    to Pearce, at least he can see whats going on in front of him.
    
    I think we've left it a bit late to go through. I hope I'm wrong.
    
    JN.

    
    
    Did anyone see Palmer have a go at Jimmy Hill yesterday ? 
    
    The Chin was totally speechless when Palmer told him to stop slagging
    off the England performances.                                    
    
    It's about time someone told him what a d*ckhead he is.
    
    Paul 

                   <<< Note 152.134 by BLKPUD::WATTERSONP >>>

    
    
>>    Did anyone see Palmer have a go at Jimmy Hill yesterday ? 
    
>>    The Chin was totally speechless when Palmer told him to stop slagging
>>    off the England performances.                                    
    
>>    It's about time someone told him what a d*ckhead he is.
    
>>    Paul 

I didn't see it but even as a Dutchman I find him very irritating and love
to get my old Doc Martens boots up his chin one day (would probably cost me
a steal cap but who cares :-)

T_

    Yeah JF I watched the TF1 coverage of the game too, and I think it
    would be fair to say they didn't like the way Pearce was tackling so
    hard during the whole game. The head-butting incident was certainly
    not mentioned.
    
    There was one nice touch in the game where Batty brought down a
    French player in a tackle that looked worse than it was and Catona
    his club team mate came up to him and clearly asked 'politly' for 
    Eric 'what was that about?' Batty clearly gestured that he thought
    the player dived. 
    
    The fact Cantona and Steven were both playing probably helped to
    diffuse the Boli-Pearce incident.
    
    -Dom

    Re a few back...
    
    If the pearce free kick came from a non foul, what about the French one
    on the edge of the box when Keown very skillfully cleared by holding
    the ball between his feet. 
    
    In general, the referee was dire. Very fussy, blowing up for minor
    incidents, and not playing advantage at all. The comments abouts
    Shearer are suspect, as most of his challenges would be viewed as
    perfectly fair on a Saturday afternoon.
    
    As for the pearce head but. I cannot see how the ref didn't see it from
    the replay, he was looking straight at the players. Pearce and Angouma
    (Sp?) had landed in a bit of a tangle and Boli just ran in a nutted
    Pearce. As for Our Stu tackling hard, I didn't notice anything
    untoward, he didn't seem to give away many fouls.
    
    If FIFA let a clearly televised incident like Boli's go unpenalised it
    will be very unfortunate.
    
    Paul

    
>   If the pearce free kick came from a non foul, what about the French one
>   on the edge of the box when Keown very skillfully cleared by holding
>   the ball between his feet. 
    
    Skillful or not it's apparently not allowed. Maybe "Jeff the Ref"
    or some other Master of the Rules can explain.
    
>   If FIFA let a clearly televised incident like Boli's go unpenalised it
>   will be very unfortunate.
 
    I don't really understand why FIFA should be bothered when it's a UEFA
    tournament. Then again, the UEFA have already let the United Nations
    decide which countries should be allowed to compete :-)   
    
    cheers,
    
    	Stefan

    >>If the pearce free kick came from a non foul, what about the French one
    >>on the edge of the box when Keown very skillfully cleared by holding
    >>the ball between his feet.
    
    I think it's Law 12 which says that you can't play the ball when you are
    down on the ground, hence an indirect free-kick.
    
    JF 
    

    >> You can't play the ball when you are on the ground
    
    I think you are very much mistaken there JF.  Many players play the
    ball while they are laid on the ground, and what is a sliding tackle if
    it is not playing the ball while you are on the ground.  I'm not a
    qualified ref (cue comments re. noters 5-a-side) but I don't think
    there is any rule which states you can't do what Keown did.
    
    		Brian.
    
    	

    
    You certainly can play the ball while on the ground.
    
    Watch the way Pearce plays. He plays hard not dirty.
    What it boils down too is that no other team likes 
    the physical side of Englands football.
    
    As far as Boli is concerned, he'll only do it once.
    
    JN.

	According to last weeks Radio Times :


	Sweden v England  @ 7.15pm  live on BBC1

	France v Denmark  @ 7.15pm  live on ITV

    
    I heard on the radio news on my way into work this morning
    that there *MAY* be a rule change for the semi-finals and
    the final.
    
    The rule change is...I'll repeat it the way I heard it.
    
    After 90 minutes playing time if the match is a draw then
    there will be no TIMED extra time or penalty shoot outs.
    
    The game will proceed to sudden death. First goal wins the 
    match.
    
    If they decide to do this then it will be implemented during
    this Euro championship.
    
    My opinion ? Great idea.
    
    JN.

    Sense prevails at last !! But then again,the semi's coould go on
    for days !!

    
    A great win for Sweden last night. We controlled the game and were
    closer to 2-0 rather than Denmark equalizing. Brolin should have scored
    a second from that chance in the end, but one is OK for me.
    
    What iv'e seen of England gives me great comfort of Sweden making
    it to the semis. The France-England was so boring i almost fell asleep.
    I agree that most of the games have been poor, but when some teams now
    have to go forward for a win, i expect to see more action from the
    teams from now on.
    
    Last friday after the Holland-Scotland game, many Scottish supporter
    came to a pub called "The Dubliners". They where sad first, but started
    to sing their songs. Later came the Dutch supporter to the pub, and it
    was really great to see how both supporter-crowds became such friends.
    They where singing along in eachothers songs, and cheered with their
    glasses at eachother. No problems with hooliganism here in Gothenburg
    so far.
    
    My wish for wednesdays games is a win for both Sweden and Denmark. But
    i want to avoid Germany in the semi, they seem to be the best team in
    the tournament.
    
    Mats 

    
    Mats.
    
    I think you are well on the way but you never know, England
    might do something stupid, like win a game for example. :-)
    
    The England team will come home undefeated without scoring
    a goal and Lineker not getting the goal scoring record. Indeed
    Lineker hasn't had a shot on goal yet.
    
    There are two strategies that Taylor employs. One is to win the
    game, the second is to not lose the game. England have bairly
    played to the latter let alone the former.
    
    Who was it that said about the need to score goals to win ? Can't
    remember myself but its what the game is all about.
    
    I personally don't give a toss how many times England remain 
    undefeated with Graham Taylor as manager as its all statistics
    which I can ignore. Like I said I would sooner see England play
    with Scotlands grit and lose than fart arse around looking like
    a loosing side.
    
    Now they have it all to do. They must beat Sweden. By how many goals
    will be determined by the outcome of the France v Denmark game. 
    
    JN.
    

    
    
    England need to win, it doesn't matter by how many goals a win will
    do it...Doesn't matter about the outcome of the Denmark France game..
    
    
           Neil 

    
    Yeah, sorry Neil. I was thinking of score draws when sorting 
    out the math. Confused myself 'cos of the draws so far.
    
    JN.

    
    	I have one comment on the France v England game;
    
    	France must be pretty awful if they are pleased with a draw against
    England, and they were!
    
    
    		Steve

    
    Mats I wouldn't be overconfident about your chances on Wednesday. 
    Certainly going on the past 2 games nobody could dispute that Sweden
    have looked a better side than England and should at least draw.
    
    However England are one of those teams (Germany are another) that even
    when playing badly always grind out the right result when needed. 
    After a dreadful start in Mexico England crushed Poland.  Even in
    qualifying England got a late equaliser also v Poland when they
    appeared to be going out.  It would be typical of England to nick a
    goal from a corner or free kick in the last 20 minutes amd snatch a 1-0
    win against the run of play.
    
    This is something hard to define but it's more than just luck.
    
    Gary.

    
    A lovely comment made by the German commentator during the Sweden v
    Denmark game... I quote...
    
    
    "Well atleast they haven't forgotten totally where the goals are !!!!"
    
    
    Keith.

    
    The avalanche of goals in group one goes on! With entertainment like
    this, I think I'll take up basket-weaving.
    
    England vs France was a dull game, enlivened by a head-butt and a
    free-kick. England's problem is still creativity; they are adept at
    gaining possession but then have no idea what to do with it. This game
    probably said more about France's championship pretensions than
    England's, since they were touted as favourites and yet were really no
    better and could have lost.
    
    Sweden vs Denmark at least had a bit of passion about it, but, as with
    all these dull games, needed an early goal to set it off. Erikson looks
    a tremendous prospect; I wonder if he'd fancy playing for Reading next
    season.
    
    jeff

    Things have got to change, surely even the bookies must think the
    odds of another 0-0 draw are not good. There is too much to play for
    and England really need to win.
    
    So I reckon tommorows game is going to see a Hat-trick for Shearer
    (errr if he plays) and a last minute winner from the penalty spot
    from Lineker.
    
    You heard it hear first, now where did I leave my tablets.....
                               
    -Dom

     What a waste that England v France game was....still , here in Ireland
    we have the inimitable Eamon 'Hold it there' Dunphy and Johnny
    'see that guy' Giles to help us apppreciate the finer points of the
    game, as well as pour scorn on Taylor's inept team displays and
    press conferences.
    
    I seem to remember in Italia '90 some English noters slagging the Irish
    cos they got through to the quarter finals without winning a game.
    ( Three draws in the group, and a penalty shoot out v Rumania). 
    
    Really though, its DIRE to watch. To quote Eamon Dunphy;
    
    	"Taylor needs a lobotomy"
    	"Taylors a con man ...a media spoofer"
    	"I hope England get SAVAGED in the next match"
    
    	and Eamon was trying to be nice ...! Jimmy Hill was spot on
    when he criticised the ENglish team, although he better watch out for 
    big Carlton when he gets home! 
    
    England are now playing that awful, flaccid, soul destroying football
    that BIG JACK has inflicted on the Irish team...which is why I refuse 
    to go to Landsdowne Road to watch the Irish. And I'm soon going to stop
    watching them on the telly.
    
    For God's  sake, will someone give Eamon Dunphy a gun so he can do us all
    a favour...football will DIE if the likes of Charlton and taylor
    succeed ....
    
    Hopeful qualifiers....
    
    SWEDEN, FRANCE....
    
    HOLLAND, CIS....
    
    

    
    
    Well this is a turn up for the books...suddenly this Dunphy bloke is
    a national hero now he's slagging off England instead of Ireland ?
    
    Looks like it's the done thing in this conference to slag off anything
    English again. Let's see we've done the Team, the Supporters, the
    Commentators..err whats left ?
    
    Chris
       

    
>    Looks like it's the done thing in this conference to slag off anything
>    English again. Let's see we've done the Team, the Supporters, the
>    Commentators..err whats left ?
 

How about food? We've always been reputed for our lack of flair in the
kitchen. Chips, steak and kidney pies and pork pies must surely rank us 
as the David Battys of the culinary world?

the galloping gourmet.
   

>    Looks like it's the done thing in this conference to slag off anything
>    English again. Let's see we've done the Team, the Supporters, the
>    Commentators..err whats left ?
 

How about the women ? Those big frumpy pear-shaped things in their floral print
Laura Ashley dresses. Down the beach like some pregnant walrus that's had too
many sticky buns. Oh dear.

David Wood
    

    
    Ton,
    
    can we have an unbiased, open minded report based on recently gained
    knowledge?
    
    Loz.

    
    Due to the lack of excitement in this group I'm surprised no one's 
    mentioned the nut who sings along to national anthem's, quality
    entertainment... Who the hell his he ?...
    
           Neil....
     

 <<< Note 152.163 by PEKING::JOLLYL "Viva la rock .... the killer lives on" >>>

    
>>    Ton,
    
>>    can we have an unbiased, open minded report based on recently gained
>>    knowledge?
    
>>    Loz.


Loz,

what can I say .......... I've never been to Sweden so I can't comment 
on their women, about nurses from Reading I can see just get a broken 
leg there and have a great time :-)

T_

ps my personal name says it all!

    The only thing that (might) avoid trouble after the Sweden game 
    now, is if both teams qualify (possible, but unlikely). I blame 
    the media. The more these things get reported, the worse the 
    conflicts always become, and the more news for the media to 
    report... etc. Football always loses.

    I expect it to be a good game, despite everything. England have
    to score. 0-0 cant get them through no matter what the result
    of Denmark v France.

    Dave

    
    My TV guide (for France) says that tonights games will be as below, but
    it what was printed two weeks or more ago, does anyone have more recent
    info?
    
    France - Denmark live at 20:15 on TF1
    England - Sweden in full at 22:15 on A2
    
    Ian

What do you guys think about tonight games?

I've got this funny feeling that both England and France will pull it off
leaving the Swedes empty handed.


T_

    
    RE:.-1
    
    Agreed, and then they'll both win their semi's, and England will beat
    France in the final to give us at work something to shout about!
    
    And isn't that a pig I see flying past the window...
    
    Ian   

    T_ .... Think you misunderstood Ians note, I think he was hoping for
    that result, but didn't think it likely...'pigs might fly' etc....
    
    Back to the game and.....I forgot the game will clash with the French
    one, so unless the Swiss show the English one live, I'll be trying
    to avoid being told the score till 10ish. Just like in that classic
    'Likley Lads' episode when after a whole day of avoiding people
    who tried to tell them the score they find that game was called off
    due to bad weather....must get that on video.
    
    -Dom
              

                    <<< Note 152.171 by LEMAN::BURKHALTER >>>
                            -< Sweden 3-4 England >-

>>    T_ .... Think you misunderstood Ians note, I think he was hoping for
>>    that result, but didn't think it likely...'pigs might fly' etc....
  
If that's the case than I appologise!

T_  

    
    Apology accepted, but not neccesary, I realised you had misunderstood!
    
    The expression in English is "Pigs might fly" which as note .170 hints
    means "a very unlikely event"!
    
    Ian

    re .167
    
    Ian,
    
    Your information is right, the second match (England-Sweden) will be
    shown "en differe" at 22.15.
    At least, that is what they announced monday.
    
    Bart
    

>>     <<< Note 152.168 by UTROP1::JANSEN "Reading Blondes have more fun" >>>
>>
>>What do you guys think about tonight games?
>>
>>I've got this funny feeling that both England and France will pull it off
>>leaving the Swedes empty handed.
>>
>>
>>T_
    
    Ton, i have that awful nasty feeling to. Lineker scoring with ten
    minutes to go, and everyone will say "Well don Sweden, but tough luck,
    you weren't good enough". And it's true, if we lose we isn't that good
    as we all Swedes would like to think we are.
    
    I'm already nervous. five-six of my friends are coming home to me for
    beer ans snacks and to watch the game. If we qualify, we will go down
    to the beer-tents and join the Dutch supporters (i won't start a fight,
    i promise :-)) If we lose, there will be mourning tomorrow.
    
    Well, it's only a game after all...
    
    Mats 
    

    
    Re: .167, .174
    
    I'm glad I've had that confirmed, however, there are some guys I work
    with who would like to watch the England game live if poss.  Are there
    any European sport channels, on satelite perhaps, which are going to
    show the England game live in France?  Hotels do have their uses after
    all! (they have satelite dishes!!!).
    
    Ian

    
    Sweden  1      England  2
      (Limpar)       (Merson, Lineker (pen)
    
    
    I predict a scrappy game with few chances until Limpar scores a
    individualist's goal shortly after half-time.  England's desparate play
    is saved by a bit of magic from Paul Merson.  And with Sweden hanging
    on for a draw, they give away a disputed penalty from which Lineker scores
    (at the second attempt because the keeper moved on the first attempt).
    
    I think....
    
    PJ

    I predict a flowing game of neat football with England running out
    winners by a 3 goal margin, David Batty scoring a hat trick ...
    
    ps Those Mushrooms I had for tea last night DID taste a little odd
    .....
    
    jb.

    
    I don't wish to sound un-patriotic and I'm usually a fairly
    optimistic person but I reckon that Sweden will beat England
    to night. By how many goals I don't know but England, I feel,
    have left it too late.
    
    There is less pressure on Sweden, they can get away with a draw.
    
    Should I be proved wrong by "the lads" then please reserve any
    slagging off that I may get until tomorrow.
    
    JN.

    
    Anyone got any ideas???

    
    Not-so-interesting facts:
    
    In the last two world cups, England have needed to win their last group
    match and have done so (3-0 vs Poland '86 and 1-0 vs Eygpt '90).
    
    In their last four meetings with Sweden, England have failed to score
    (Three 0-0 and a 1-0 win for the Swedes).
    
    Carlton Palmer is the illegitimate son of Jimmy Hill.
    
    Which all goes to show that tonight's game will be very close with
    England winning by the odd goal. Or possibly not.
    
    jeff

    
As you all know Sweden can lose by a goal an still be in the semi-final. Here
are some examples of different situations that can occur.

    
Sweden	-  England    0 - 1        Sweden  -  England    0 - 1
France  -  Denmark    0 - 0        France  -  Denmark    0 - 1

England  3 1 2 0   1-0    4        England  3 1 2 0   1-0    4
Sweden   3 1 1 1   2-2    3        Sweden   3 1 1 1   2-2    3
---------------------------        ---------------------------
France   3 0 3 0   1-1    3        Denmark  3 1 1 1   1-1    3   
Denmark  3 0 2 1   0-1    2        France   3 0 2 1   0-1    2


Sweden	-  England    0 - 1        Sweden  -  England    1 - 1
France  -  Denmark    1 - 1        France  -  Denmark    0 - 1

England  3 1 2 0   1-0    4        Sweden   3 1 2 0   3-3    4
---------------------------        ---------------------------
Sweden   3 1 1 1   2-2    3        England  3 0 3 0   1-1    3
France   3 0 3 0   2-2    3        Denmark  3 1 1 1   1-1    3
---------------------------        ---------------------------
Denmark  3 0 2 1   1-2    2        France   3 0 2 1   1-2    2

Drawing of lots between            Drawing of lots between 
France and Sweden                  England and Denmark


Sweden	-  England    1 - 1        Sweden  -  England    0 - 1
France  -  Denmark    0 - 0        France  -  Denmark    1 - 2

Sweden   3 1 2 0   3-2    4        England  3 1 2 0   1-0    4
---------------------------        Sweden   3 1 1 1   2-2    3
England  3 1 1 1   2-2    3        ---------------------------
France   3 0 3 0   2-2    3        Denmark  3 1 1 1   2-2    3
---------------------------        France   3 0 2 1   1-2    2
Denmark  3 0 2 1   0-1    2        

Drawing of lots between            Sweden threw to the semi by
England and France                 their win over Denmark

And so on... I read in today's paper about Denmarks statistics against France.
The have played six games over the years, and Denmarks scoreline is

        p   w   d   l       +/-      pts

	6   1   1   4      3 - 34     3

How's that, one wonder. Well, in the 1908 olympics Denmark faced France and
lost 1-10. They seeked revenge one week later and lost again, 1-17!! We won't 
see results like that tonight!! :-)

Mats

    
    re: tonights match...
    
    its not on ITV is it?
    any more of THAT theme tune and ill be dangling from the light fitting.
    
    Ian.

    re .183
    
    Yeah, nauseating little ditty that one. Sounds like Mike & the 
    Mechanics crashing into a Eurovision nasty. And hows this for a
    link with Eurovision? Apparently Bjorn & Benny of former Pop
    Gods ABBA have written the official Swedish signature tune for
    Euro 92. Amazing.

    
    
    Well, 
    
    I'd like to wish England the best of luck tonight......
    
    but , seeing as they've already had their fair share, I really cant!
    
    Heres hoping that *REAL* footballing teams qualify i.e. Sweden/France
    or Denmark.
    
    with love from the Emerald Isle,
    
    *Tiger*

    In all honesty I think England will pull it off tonight.  The Swedes
    only need a draw and will be tempted to play for a draw.  Their defence
    isn't up to it and I can see England leading 2-0 with a Swedish
    consolation in the last 10 minutes setting up a tight finish.  England
    to hang on and qualify with Denmark - they are as good as the vastly
    hyped/overrated French.
    
    England 2 Sweden 1
    Pearce    Ravelli
    Keown
    
    		Brian

    
    Jitters is right, re : my note a few back, is it on satelite somewhere
    in France???
    
    Ian

    Re: >> Team News?
      
        >> Anyone got any ideas?
    
          Why when I read that did the image of Graham Taylor come into
          my mind, sitting on a dressing room chair looking puzzled at a
          team sheet?
    
          Sweden have played two good games....
          England have played two bad games....
    
          The odds have to be that England play better and the crowd
          pressure on the Swedes for another good game from them will
          be too much.
    
          At least if the Swedes go through Mats will be happy, heres
          to a great game tonight......
    
    -Dom
        
    -Dom
          
    

    
    I'm looking forward to tonights game and i'm quietly confident of 
    victory, if Sweden play for the draw tonight then England will win
    comfortably, if Sweden go for victory then anything can happen.
    
    Regarding the team for tonight the way Taylor's chop and changed the
    sides recently who knows what side will be out there.
    
    How am I feeling, how would you like me to feel, happy, I can be happy.
    Tense, I can be tense. ANGRY, I CAN BE ANGRY. Sad, I can be sad, 
    What would you like me to be.......Taylor, a victory will do.....
    
      Neil...

>>
>>                      <<< Note 152.186 by CHEFS::HOUSEB >>>
>>                               -< Eng 2 - Swe 1 >-
>>
>>    In all honesty I think England will pull it off tonight.  The Swedes
>>    only need a draw and will be tempted to play for a draw.  Their defence
>>    isn't up to it and I can see England leading 2-0 with a Swedish
>>    consolation in the last 10 minutes setting up a tight finish.  England
>>    to hang on and qualify with Denmark - they are as good as the vastly
>>    hyped/overrated French.
>>    
>>    England 2 Sweden 1
>>    Pearce    Ravelli
>>    Keown     ^^^^^^^
>>    
>>    		Brian
    
    Well, if we do get a penalty, i think that Thern will take it, and not our
    goalie. Surely you don't think that a long kick-out from Ravelli will
    pass the English Goalie? :-)
    
    Tommy Svensson knows the danger of playing defensively for a draw. We
    will probably play the same style as against the Danes. Keeping
    pressure on the ball-holder and outmark the Brittish midfield and
    forwars. We have the same line-up that started against Denmark with
    Brolin and Dahlin at the top. Long balls in the air will be a waste, so
    the attacks will come along the sidelines and on the ground.
    
    It will surely be a hard and tough game with enough incidents to fill
    topic 231 with at least 30 new replies. Good luck to you all!!
    
    Mats

    
    Mats, Brian has a thing about keepers scoring.  What's even more
    unlikely is Keown coring.
    
    Sweden are a better side.  They have played better football and all
    logic points to a Swedish win however it is England and I think they'll
    pull it off.  England to win 1-0 with a goal in the last 20 minutes
    from that boy Lineker.  
    
    Gary.  

    Prediction for tonight...
    
    Graham Taylor to play the same team which fought out an incredibly
    dull 0:0 draw with the French, after they had so majestically fought
    out a 0:0 draw with Denmark, and just manage to fight out an
    incredibly dull 0:0 draw with Sweden, and go out of the tournament...
    
    Then, in the after-match press conference, he will utter those now
    immortal words...
              ..."I was happy not to lose the game..."
    
    Stew. (feeling cynical)
    

    Batty could play - at right back - to keep Limpar under control. Limpar
    - the smallish chappie with a good turn of speed and a habit of leaving
    his foot behind in a tackle, any of that and Mr Batts will er deal with
    him.
    
    It all looks to be close, I fancy England to just do it, and the French
    to just do it vs the Danes.
    
    jb.

    
    Tonights the night were Gary Lineker is going to do what he does best
    and lead England to a 1-0 victory over sweden.
     
    I wonder if Jack Charlton will remember what his name is after the
    game..
    
    ANDY.B

    
    eerrrr...  No one has a satelite dish in Europe then?
    
    Ian

    	Well I am less than confident about England's chances.
    
    	Sweden and France are now favourites for the semis imo..
    
    	England do have a knack of coming up with the goods at the last
    	possible moment, but they've run out of luck on that front.
    	Sweden will get a point, and France will win.
    
    	I hope I'm wrong...it's been known to happen before... 8-)
    
    	Andy.

    Part of hopes that England does not win, and comes home in a sort of
    disgrace. (Worse than 88 ?)
    
    Maybe, just maybe, Taylor will then be replaced.
    
    But who would you replace him with ?
    
    An England manager needs to be a nice, amiable person. He will need
    media skills, and wherewithall to handle interviews in tricky
    situations. He must have good leadership capabilities, and must
    have (preferably) been a professionial footballer himself.
    
    I know, it has to be
    
             DAVID ICKE !!!  ;)

    How can it be worse than 88 - we got no points them.
    
    Robson survived that - the only way Taylor will go is if he retires -
    and I dont think he will do that. Hes got ready made excuses - half his
    squad is missing. He'll be around until the next world cup at least.
    
    I think he should go as well (thats putting it politely).
    
    Nigel

    re: .198
    
    I do not know, Maybe Eurosport ??
    
    C'mon you Scandinavians, beat those non-football playing people.
    
    Bart
    

    
    Why replace taylor, since he has taken over at England they have
    only lost one game, and thats not a bad record.
    Anyway, we cant be anymore of a disgrace than scotland when they go home
    without a point or a goal, or even Ireland who didn't even make the
    trip.
    
    ANDY.B
    

    On the contrary Andy, Scotland, whatever happens tomorrow can go home
    with heads held high.   They gave it a go.  If England don't perform
    tonight they will go home in disgrace and as the worst team in the
    tournament - up to now poor football and haven't given it a go.
    
    Personally I hope England turn it on tonight and qualify.
    
    		Brian

	They could do it if they could ignore the manager. His tactical 
instructions are easy to forget but will his selection will continue to be 
purely for comic effect. 

	As for his record it proves that with a medium size nation whose 
favourite sport is football almost anyone should run up a good, and it is good,
record. 

    
    Re .204
    
    Brian, 
    
    that's the difference between the pressure on England and Scotland. In
    1988, England were unlucky in two games, lost them both, gave up
    against the USSR and came home in disgrace -  no one said anything about
    how well they played - they just got slated for losing. At least this
    time, they go into the third game knowing a win will take them into the
    semis.
    
    Paul

    RE.152.203
    
    Andy,
    
    
    	I don't think that anyone thinks that the Scots will come home in 
    	disgrace . We might not win anything but for a small country we
    have done well and proved that we were no ones mugs .

	France 1  - Denmark 2  
	Sweden 2  - England 1  
	
	This simply leaves us with Sweden and Denmark to qualify! Well
	done both teams, especially Denamrk after a pretty late call-up.
	
	The only comment I can make: the better, most committed teams
	made it through, for once there is a justice in football, poor
	teams get thrown out...

							.Andre.
	
	P.S: for whoever cares, Scotland played far better football than
	     any team in group I and would have EASILY qualified from
	     this group...

	After match comments by Michel PLATINI (french coach)
	
	- France missed last world cup, and whatever international
	experience this would have brought (to the same group of players)
	
	- France didn't really deserve to qualify when you take in account
	how bad technically they have played all their games
	

    The thing that I find puzling is how a team can play so differently,
    even with the same basic core of players. The French qualifying group 
    was a tough one with Spain and Czechoslovakia, but France not only won,
    they didn't even drop a point. They also played some attractive football 
    in doing so. The question is, why give up the tactics/style that got
    you there to begin with? If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
    
    As far as Platini's comment about missing international experience from
    the last World Cup, well, the Danish side wasn't in Italy either. A lot
    of teams re-build and try out different lineups over a 2 year span
    anyway.
    
    I prediced France to win it, so that shows how much they fooled me...
    
    Tom   

    I'm not shedding any tears for England's failure to qualify.  The
    remainder of the tournament will provide more entertainment as a result
    (except of course for Graham Taylor's post-game interviews).
    
    What I can not fathom, is how England can play like two completely
    different teams in the two halves.  What happened to Tony Daley?  In
    the first half, he looked like a match winner up and down the right
    wing.  In the second, I wasn't sure he was even on the pitch??
    
    The same with Neil Webb and David Platt - someone must have put
    something in the orange juice at half-time.  (I suppose Sweden's
    substitution had something to do with it, but these are international
    players who should know how to adapt!!)
    
    And finally, Graham Taylor should be fired - not for failing to qualify
    but for substituting Gary Lineker.  Whether he is scoring or not, Gary
    was always an inspiration for his team mates and a tireless worker. 
    Taking Lineker off was admiting defeat......IMO.
    
    PJ

    
    
    	Although I didn`t see the game last night,( believe me
    	I would have loved to see England get stuffed) going by
    	their two previous displays ( against Denmark & France )
    	England certainly deserve to be going where they are, 
    	HOME !!
    
        On the down side though, the only team with enough pride
    	and guts within themselves to try and play attacking,
    	flowing football will also be on their way home too !
    	Scotland have shown Europe and the rest of the Footballing
    	nations around the world that they are no pushovers, and
    	Andy Roxburgh and his boys can be proud of their performances.
    	
    
    	To Scotland a vote of confidence, Well Done Boys!!!!!!!
    
    	To England, basically you`s are sh*te .
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    	SCOTLAND for the European Championships 1996  
    
    
    	Build a WALL along the border and keep the lager louts
    	and thugs out ;-)
                   
    
    	P.S.    PLEASE PLEASE don`t sack Graham Taylor, he`s doing a
    		grand job.
     
    
    

     I couldn't agree with you more!!

     Build a wall and keep the thugs and louts out surely going by past
     performances they would simply knock the wall down and use the bricks
     to cause more unnecessary vandalism.
    
    
    

    England had 3 main problems.....
    
    1. No player of world class in midfield
    2. Graham Taylor
    3. Lineker loss of at least a yard in pace
    
    Solve these 3 problems and we could get somewhere in the next World
    Cup!
    
    -Dom

    Well done to Sweden. They didn't bottle it when we played reasonably well
    in the first half and were 1-0 up at half-time. They totally outplayed
    us for the whole of the second half and deserved to go through.
    
    Double well-done to Denmark, after losing to Sweden and drawing with
    England they had the self-belief to take on and beat France and go
    through to the next round with only TWO WEEKS of preparation.
    
    Stevo. 
    
    p.s. Is this a sad end to Linekers international career, not for being
    in a team out of the European championships, but for being subbed by
    Smith!?   

    
    Well done Sweden - you showed us in the second half what the game of
    football is all about. The positive play was something that we just
    couldn't cope with - what happened to the midfield?
    
    As for Taylor; I've never rated him from when I used to watch Watford
    in the early eighties with their direct style. His judgement in
    substitutions has to be questioned.....not for taking Lineker off
    necessarily, who wasn't getting a look in, but for leaving Webb, Daley and
    Palmer on. Surely Nigel Clough or Trevor Steven could have produced
    something creative from the space in the middle of the park?
    
    So it seems there is some justice in football with England and France
    paying heavily for their bereft displays. Good luck to Sweden and
    Denmark, and hopefully the Swedish people can enjoy a peaceful second 
    week of the tournament.
    
    Germany to beat Sweden 3-2 in the final.
    
    Rob

    IMO the best teams won. It is always fun to watch football with some
    french guys.  In  the end they even did not know
    what was going on when Platini announced that he wants to take this
    team to the WC 1990. HOW ???
    
    About the England match, I think they had some chances which they
    should have scored in the first half. When you do not score clear
    chances you do not deserve to win.
    
    Bart.
    
    PS. Is this the tournament of the "BLEEDING HEADS" or what ?
    

    
    Well, what can you say? Very few people predicted (either here or
    anywhere else) that the Scandanavian teams would qualify from this
    group, and yet they did so deservedly. From the highlights of the
    France vs Denamrk game, it seemed as though the Danes dominated the
    first half and played some good attacking football. France seemed to
    play the whole championship as individuals which is odd for a side
    that's been together for some time.
    
    As for England vs Sweden, it must be said that not only did the latter 
    have greater commitment in attack and apparently superior fitness, they
    also had the better players. After a first half controlled by England,
    Sweden simply took over the game and England's inability to retain
    possession for any length of time cost them dear. This is where England 
    really missed someone to boss the midfield, to take control and slow
    the game down. Webb disappeared completely and Palmer was increasingly
    chasing shadows; the substitutions were tactically all wrong since the
    problem wasn't up front but in midfield where Sweden completely
    dominated. The problem for England seems to be a lack of quality
    players. A midfield of Daley, Webb, Palmer and Sinton would be average
    in the first division; at international level, they were simply
    outclassed.
    
    Good luck to the Swedes, who played positive football and were not
    afraid to try and win the game, a fault that's cost England dear yet
    again.
    
    jeff 

    Calling BAREFIELDA..........
    
    Calling BAREFIELDA..........
    
    
    
    I think you now know the meaning of the word disgrace...
    
    
    Altogether now, "I never felt more like singing the blues"
    
    		    "When Sweden win, and England lose"
    
    Kev....:-)

    England have ended up exactly where they belong, bottom of the group
    andon the plane home.  England and France were by far the worst teams
    in the tournament.
    
    Last night England showed they weren't good enough.  In the last 15
    mins when they needed to throw players forward and show a bit of
    commitment they still only attacked with 3 players.  Why wasn't one of
    the centre backs thrown into attack when it was obvious England needed 
    to score to stay in it.  
    
    Not only were Taylor's substitutions diabolical, but his team selection
    was mystifying.  Successful teams in club football are those that can
    pick the same team week in week out, yet in the space of three games
    Taylor has had radically different line-ups, and has alternated the
    formation.  Webb hadn't played for weeks and it showed, he was awful. 
    Palmer showed in the Denmark game that he isn't an international
    midfielder yet after a good game at sweeper he is moved back to
    midfield.  Trevor Steven I thought was the one midfielder who had
    performed adequatley in the previous games yet is dropped for Andy
    Sinton in the one the matters.  When the chips were down England were 
    stuck with 11 players who weren't prepared to die for their country and
    really give it a go.
    
    Taylor's interview as usual was crap.  Why doesn't have the guts to say
    we weren't good enough and we performed badly instead of blaming the
    half time break.  I can't believe he really thought Sweden had used the
    long ball game in the second half, he was having a laugh surely. 
    Brolin's goal - real long ball stuff.  
    
    One plus from the tournament I thought for England was Keown (Oxford
    born and bred).  The rest including Des Walker were disappointing.
    
    IMO England have done as bad as 88.  Worst team in tournament, worst
    fans, most embarrassing manager, less goals, poorer performances.  At
    least now we "can sit back, put our feet up and enjoy the tournament"  
    
    I hope Ireland draw England in USA 94.
    
    
    		Brian.
    		

    
    
    I agree with just about all that has been said so far.
    
    The French didn't play at all, and the English only played for 45
    minutes.  The correct two teams have qualified, well done Sweden and
    Denmark.
    
    I must disagree with part of .221, I thought Des Walker had a good
    game, though I don't understand why a player of his class kept pulling
    shirts!  From his point of view, he must have been disappointed with
    the goal, but I (no modesty here!) have played the same role with a
    similar difference of quality between myself and the other defenders. 
    What I mean is, he needed to be everywhere, and couldn't be.
    
    He's one of the few world class players England had on display last
    night.
    
    Regards,
    Ian

    Andy,
    
    I think your last reply is a disgrace.
    
    		Brian

    
    re .222
    
    Very sick indeed. I hope none of his friends or family reads that.

One entertaining thing about England's games : Graham Taylor's 
post-match interview. The way he talks his way out of awful displays against
Denmark, France and his 2nd half last night.

The question is who interviews him? His mother? They don't dare ask any 
sort of difficult question, like "how can you explain why your team fell apart
in the second half and seemed to lack any motivation?". He was allowed explain 
away this defeat by saying that they were beaten because Sweden played England's
type of game with long balls. 

Two flaws here : 1) If it was England's game, why didn't they know how to deal 
with it? 2) They might have applied pressure and used a few well placed long 
balls, but they could also play the ball on the ground - case in point being 
Brolin's excellent goal.

The interviewer however let him off the hook with this and just said "good luck 
in the world cup". 

I think the sooner Taylor goes the better for England.

 - Kevin

    re .222
    
    How long will it take before you grow up. The moderators should set you 
    NOWRITE, because you seem incapable of anything but bad taste. 
    I don't think your reply will last long anyway.
    
    Kev...

    
    Andy,
    
    That's probably the cruellest, most offensive note ever entered. To
    mock the loss that Terry Yorath suffered because your team failed to
    please you is sad and says a lot about you that's unpleasant and even
    scary.
    
    You should retract, or better still stay away from notes if your
    bitterness drives you to this.
    
    Paul
    
    

    re .222
    
    i totally agree.
    absolutely disgusting.
    
    Ian.

         
         I am really surprised that this Danish team could make it this far.
         They have done a lot better than expected by anyone already.
         France was really a disappointment, all the way through.
         
         Sweden did well again, the only team, who has played really good 
         all the time(Scotland tried hard as well). 
         I still hope Sweden will win the Cup.
         
         Grattis Sverige !
         
         I don't hope You have had too much trouble during the night in 
         Stockholm. It is a shame that the joy and happiness around 
         football, has to be spoiled by stupid vandals, rioting and 
         beating-up other people. It must be stopped somehow !
          
         Jan

    That .222 note has now been deleted. Please don't make fun with such
    sad events.
    
    JF

    So Taylor complains about Half-Time coming.
    
    Well IMO England should have welcomed Half-Time as the last ten minutes
    of the first half were all Sweden.
    
    Limpar's shot just wide, Dahlin's penalty (perhaps) and Brolin's
    penalty (defo). 
    
    Also what happened to Batty in the second half ?
    
    
    Stephen C.
    

Well the feelings I had before the games didn't came true and the teams
who deserved it most go trough.

Well done Sweden, hope you can get to the finals.

T_

    Congratulations to Sweden. A well earned and well deserved victory
    against a pathetic excuse for a Team. Easily the worst team to ever
    grace a major football competition.
    
    It would be good to see you get to the final, and who knows ?
    
    There has been a lot of criticism against the England players. However,
    I think that given the players who were there, they performed just
    about as well as could be expected. The blame lies solely (is that
    right ?) at the feet of the manager. He chooses the players, he chooses
    the team, he chooses the tactics and he chooses the substitutions. He
    got it wrong on all counts. I hope he chooses to quit.
    
    In the post match interview, he is quoted as saying how Sweden beat
    us with the long ball game, and how football purists say that the
    long ball game has no place in International football, but here we
    were, knocked out by the long ball game. Did he watch the same game as
    me ? Where was the long ball in the brilliant Brolin goal. That was
    an excellant goal, created by some excellant moves. You just know what
    he was getting at, and what he wants to do.
    
    I do not believe that England players are not good enough to compete
    at international level. There are many good players that were left
    behind by Taylor. I believe that it is England managers that 
    are not good enough to compete at international level.
    
    Sadly,
    
    Wayne

    
    No complaints here, England were not good enough we were beaten by
    a system we are used to playing against week in and week out and
    couldn't cope with it, if you don't pick your best team you don't
    deserve to win. Frankly, some of Taylors decisions were a little 
    bizzare....More later...
    
     Neil...   

    
       Re .222    What was that all about ?
    
    
       Last nights result can't really have surprised anybody, the 
       best teams wons IMO.
    
       The one plus to come out of the tourament is that Graham Taylor
       has been exposed for the knob he really is. Englands slide backwards
       from WC90 could have prevented. Ok you must experiment with new
       players but Taylor took this too far and ended up stuck up his own
       backside refusing to admit he'd lost his way. Beardsley Waddle Fat
       Boy at the very least should have been in the squad, even just in 
       Fat boys case keep them amused, shaveing off eyebrows etc etc : )
    
       I almost feel sorry for Taylor  *& Snap out of it (@  what am I saying
       'kick his ass out'.
    
       	
       Re .212 .213
       On the subject of sacking Taylor maybe we should put out an open job
       posting in Scotland for a new one,some of you lads seem to have a lot
       to say about our team. You never know we might learn to revel in defeat
       aswell ; )
    
       CHris

>                                                 You just know what
>    he was getting at, and what he wants to do.
    
    Er ...,
      after re-reading my note, this doesn't sound right. What I meant was,
    you just know what Taylor was getting at, and what Taylor wants to do.
    
    W

    
    What a night!!!!!!
    
    The nightmare start of the game came as a chock to me and my mates who
    was watching the game on TV. The first 35-40 minutes was all Englands.
    I thought that Sweden just gave the ball away in the air, noone was
    really trying to reach it. And suddenly, two attacks witch certainly
    could have resulted in at least one penalty (Brolin was clearly brought
    down, no dive there). We said in half-time that Tommy will pull off a
    midfielder, put Brolin there and put in Johnny Ekstrom. Tommy did, but
    surprisingly it was Limpar, my choice would have been Ingesson.
    
    The second half was marvelous, i enjoyed every minute. Erikssons
    beautiful header (against an English defense!!), and especially the
    second goal. Brolin to Ingesson, Ingesson back to Brolin, Brolin
    travels close to the box, passes to Dahlin, Dahlin back to Brolin who
    just chips it in under the bar. Beautiful!!! A few minutes later the
    news came, Denmark were one up. We couldn't beleive it. England and
    France out of the tournament!!
    
    Then we went out on the town. On the main street of Gothenburg,
    hundreds od Swedes were marching, singing and waving with flags. I met
    many Dutch supporters who congratulated us and said it was a well
    deserved win. Then we went to the Dubliner's, a pub own by two
    irishmen. The pub was full of Scots and Dutchmen and all was singing
    along to the Irisg band. Many Scots were dressed in kilts and the
    Swedish national shirt. Some even were Dutch scarfs. We were singing
    along in "i can walk a hundred miles for one of your goals" and many
    other songs. It was a very happy Mats that strolled home 3 o'clock in
    the morning.
    
    My congratulations to Denmark, and my concelations to France and
    England. Maybe this actually is good for English football. When we made
    that disaster in Italy, Olle Nordin was fired and Tommy Svensson came
    in. He has brought in much new fresh blood in the team, and after two
    years his success is coming. Perhaps getting rid of Taylor is a good
    idea. Not because he is a bad coach, more because a change is
    nessesary.
    
    I hope for the Dutch in the semi, and then Denmark in the final. Jan,
    you still want that revenge? I spoke to both German and Dutch
    supporters last night, and they are expecting trouble tonight.
    Apparently Dutch and German supporters dont get along, but i hope for a
    peacefull draw and Scotland beating CIS by 5-0.
    
    SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSWWWWWWWWWWWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDDDDDDEEEEEEEEEENNNNNNNNNN
    
    Mats 

    
    
    How many Swedes are now on two yellow cards ??? do you fancy 
    your chances without them ?
    
    I'll be supporting Sweden from now on in this tournament...
    
    Heres for a Limpar hatrick against however !
    
    Chris

                    <<< Note 152.242 by SEDSWS::WILLMOTT >>>
                            -< Come on you Gunner >-

    
    
>>    How many Swedes are now on two yellow cards ??? do you fancy 
>>    your chances without them ?
    
  
I believe three.

T_

    Yeah, here's another Swedish supporter but as .242 mentions how many
    players are you going to have available to play?
    
    The team spirit and the Swedish crowd is well worth a goal a game,
    looks to me like a Germany vs Sweden final. I hope Sweden do it...
    
    As for Taylor he should be driven along with his '1966 Golden Oldie
    Collection' to the Watford Gap and left there. Then a quick drive
    up to Nottingham and a knock on Brian Cloughs door....
    
    -Dom

    My 2 cents worth 8-)
    
    A totally gutless second half performance from England turned victory
    into defeat. The culprit ? Taylor,who showed all the tactical sense
    of Saddam Huessein. Sack him NOW !!!
    
    

I totally agree that after the disgrace of the last week that Taylor should go.

However I seem to remember 4 years ago that everyone was saying that Bobby Robson
should go after England didn't even get a point in Germany. However 2 years
later Robson was still there watching his team going out of the World cup finals
with a great amount of pride, losing to W. Germany on penalties in the Semis.

I personally had a great amount of respect for Robson, after the job he'd done
at Ipswich, and felt he'd make a good England manager. He came good in the end
but it took a hell of a long time.

Taylor is a different kettle of fish, and I hope that he doesn't get the second
chance that Robson did, otherwise we'll soon be down with the likes of Luxemburg 
& Malta in the international arena.

The world cup qualifiers are just around the corner. One of 2 things need to
happen if England want to be in the U.S.

	Taylor admits that he has been wrong, stops picking donkeys, and includes
some of the internationally renowned players to help the new boys settle in
a la Waddle, Beardsley 

or 	Taylor goes. England need new blood now. ( My personal preference )

	Well played Sweden. After the first half I thought it was academic.
England had started to play well and looked the more likely qualifiers. However,
the Swedes came out with a new formation and tore England apart for 45 minutes.

	Best of luck to Sweden & Denmark in the Semis.

Al

An RTE Snippet:

... but the only question Graham Taylor's squad are going to be asked after 
this game is........

"Smoking, or Non-smoking"?


Dave

    
    As much as I didn't like saying it in my note yesterday I 
    really felt that England didn't have it in them to beat
    Sweden. I knew they would lose but I wouldn't have been 
    able to predict the score line. All the same though, I wanted
    England to win.
    
    I was cheered up by the way England opened the game and getting
    the early goal gave me hope that perhaps we might be in with
    a chance now that we've scored our first tournament goal. Break
    the ice so to speak.
    
    Its always dangerous though to score that early unless you can bang
    in another couple to make your opponents lay down. Sweden wouldn't
    lay down and I felt that despite the other chances missed by England
    they were sitting back on the one goal lead. God only knows what they
    were doing in the last ten minutes of the first half.
    
    Do our boys have a problem with their fitness ? Are they tired after
    the end of a hard domestic season ? I don't know but the second half
    for England was not a good one. Sweden changed their formation to
    a typical Saturday afternoon League formation but England weren't
    able to cope. Why ? They play this way each weekend and yet Taylor
    used it as an excuse for our downfall not to mention the half time
    excuse. May I suggest Mr Taylor that England needed the half time
    break and I would have like to have been a fly on the wall of the
    England changing room at half time just to hear what you said to
    the team.
    
    Sweden were fired up and all of a sudden the through balls from
    midfield, that failed in the first half, were starting to work
    and the Swedes could start to play a bit of football. England
    were nowhere, had they thought they had done enough ?
    
    I cannot honestly remember any long balls from the Swedes in the 
    second half with the exception of the goal kicks and can a corner
    kick be classed as a long ball ? I don't think so. So Mr Taylor
    where was this bombardment coming from ? If you mean the Swedes
    were making us look average then you are correct.
    
    The Swedish corner kicks were superb. Driven in hard and low and
    a good goal from Eriksson (?). Even if Sinton wasn't on the line
    I still don't think Woods would have got it away.
    
    Gary Lineker substuted ? I don't know how I feel about that but I
    would have brought Shearer on instead of Smith. I thought Webb was
    useless in the first half and there was nothing creative about his
    play. Give me a ball and I'll hook it over the heads of their midfield
    players. Clough Jnr may not be the same size physically as Webb but he
    has a better footballing brain and splits defences with passes along
    the ground and not hit and hope as we saw to no effect last night.
    
    Swedens second and winning goal. I don't need to say anything except
    it was a great goal. Our defence didn;t have a clue.
    
    Palmer had a good game I thought, from a battling point of view. Whats
    up with Pearce ? Is his knee still causing problems because he no
    longer makes his bounding runs up the left wing. During this tourny
    I rarely saw him pass the half way line and he would always put in the
    long ball before he reached the half way line. I suspect that its not
    his own choice to play that way but rather his instructions for each
    90 minutes.
    
    Keown was good. Some superb tackles and did he miss the ball with his
    head at all ? It didn't look as if he did.
    
    Graham Taylor. He should do the honourable thing and resign. Mark
    my words, under Taylor we will not qualify for the world cup finals.
    He clearly doesn't know what he is doing which he domonstrated by
    leaving some good players behind in England. What must you be thinking
    to leave behind the leading League goal scorer in the first division.
    Instead of taking Smith from Arsenal I would have taken Cambell who
    is a proven goal scorer.
    
    Enough of this ranting.
    
    Very well done Sweden, oh and Denmark as well. Justice has been
    done and the two teams who deserve to go through have done so.
    Scotland should have been in our group as they deserve more than
    an early flight home as well.
    
    Good luck in the semis.
    
    JN.

    
    After reading all of BAREFIELDA replies and especially .222 I've
    came to the conclusion that he must have a skin head and an NF tattoo.
    
    Lobotomy time.
    
    Del 

         
         Yes Mats, I would like to see a pure Scandinavian Final, with a 
         Danish revenge as the result; but honestly I don't think it will 
         happen. 
         
         First of all I don't believe the Danish team is good enough to go 
         any further, they have done their outmost till now. Secondly, we 
         will not be able to beat such a good Swedish team.
         
         I still believe in and hope for Sweden as the winners !
         
         Jan

    re .250
    
    No, worse than that.  He is a Chelsea fan.
    
    		Brian.

Its hard to judge from highlights, but Denmark seemed to be al over France 
last night. How good are they???? Do they have any chance in the semi-final
against Holland/Germany/CIS.

Nothing was expected of them coming to the tournament, and I assumed they'd 
be just average (mind you, England & France redifined that word).
Denmark are in Ireland's group for the world cup, I don't think they 
are the soft touch I thought they were.

- Kevin

    
    Just a few more thoughts..
    
    Sweden's second goal was brilliantly worked but it was not England's
    defence that was at fault here but the midfield and principally Neil 
    Webb. When a player makes a run from deep, as Brolin did, someone from
    the midfield must take responsibility and follow them; Webb initially
    picked up Brolin but then let him go after the first one-two. This
    allowed Brolin time and space to pick out Dahlin and go for the return.
    One-twos around the edge of the box are very difficult to defend
    against if the midfield don't follow the runners.
    
    Commiserations to Papin, who must be the most lethal finisher around at
    the moment. Two half-chances, two goals and his finish last night was
    superb, just beyond the 'keeper's reach, yet just inside the far post.
    
    jeff

    
    Denmark ? Don't you remember the Mexico world cup ? Everyone thought
    they were going to win it, although they went out. What was the name
    of that Maradonna type forward they had, he was great. It was a
    Dane who hacked down Charlie and knackered him for the rest of
    the competition. He would have been golden boot, worth 18 mill
    and . . . . 
    
    I don't think there's any such thing as an easy match these days.
    Well OK, maybe England.
    
    David Wood   

    RE -1
    
    I think you are refering to Michaeal Laudrup brother of Brian
    
    He scored a brilliant goal against Uruguay in a game that the Danes ran
    riot in (5-1 I think)
    
    English TV Commentator : "Laudrup....still Michael Laudrup....He
    rounds the keeper....what a goal....The Boy's a genius !!" John Helm.
    
    Stephen C.                                               
            
    

 >>                     <<< Note 152.255 by EVTDD1::WOOD >>>
 >>                      -< It's all the bacon and lager >-
 >>
 >>   
 >>   What was the name of that Maradonna type forward they had, he was great.
 >>   
 >>   David Wood   
    
    
    It must be Preben Elkjaer you are thinking of. And yes, hwas surely
    great!!!
    
    Mats

    Intresting reading some of the replies here...
    
    "Taylor should have done this and that..."
    "Wrong players ...."
    "Wrong tactic..."
    
    It seems as though the outcome of the game was due to the fact that
    England did something wrong... otherwise they would't have lost to a
    contry like Sweden.
    
    I don't think England played bad (After all... loosing 1-2 against
    Sweden I would consider as quite good). I don't think sacking your manager
    will change anything. 
    
    Sweden won because we played better. England lost because they played
    against a good team and not for any other reason!
    
    /Bedo
    

Can any of the Irish noters tell us about some of Eamon Dunphy's comments after
last night's shambles?

I'm in need of a laugh today... :-(

Tarik

PS JUST SAY "NO"!!!

    Sacking the manager can only be of benefit to Ingerlund. He's
    a t**t.

    The French Riviera has been known to show some "nationalist
    tendencies", but LePen is currently facing tough competition....
    
    
    ...it is us Swedes, proudly spreading our nationalism among the
     sodding French down here....
    
    When Sweden scored its first goal in the tournament, against France,
    the commentator said it was "because the goalie had the sun in his
    eyes"!!!
    
    Poor France, but then again, Sweden was not known for its sunshine
    ...either....if you know what I mean...
    
    Well, now I just want to welcome the French team back home. Conditions
    should be ideal for practice down here...cloudy...and no risk of
    getting the sun in one's eyes!

    We'll have a lot less of this modesty. Watching Denmark makes me think
    that Ireland will do very well to come second in the WC group.
    
    Paul

    re; .259...Tarik...
    
    I taped the post match comments on RTE...as I wanted to hear what the Chin
    and the Vegetable had to say to that old Clareman ...Des Lynam.
    
    I'll check the tape tonight to hear what they said. Apparently both
    Giles and DUnphy were nearly in need of hospitilisation after they
    heard Mr Taylor accusing the Swedish side of playing long ball English
    League football. The laughter could be heard for miles and miles....
    
    What I really wanted to say is this....
    
    The laws of Karma rule....what goes around comes around...
    
    Taylor started the rot  20 years ago in Watford, the cancer spread,
    and has now come home to roost at the highest level. Normally I like
    to see England do ok, but they were overwhelmed by the very qualities
    that the likes of Taylor  espouses..........namely guts and
    100% commitment....oh and one other quality that this  managerial
    faker mostly forgets....The Swedish also had SKILL...
    
    Why werent the likes of Clough and Steven playing? Surely GAzza also..
    
    Lastly, I thought it was the final mark of a defective intellect
    to substitute Lineker. I mean, Smith for Lineker..HAH! Also it
    displayed appaling appaling insensivity to a true gentleman...
    
    Also Taylors post match comments were designed to deflect blame onto
    his players, not a man you would be loyal to.
    
    Goodbye , England, take your vandals with you...leave Europe
    to those of us who know how to take our drink and enjoy it.
    
    You won't be missed.
    
    
    	*Tiger*

Apparently the Germans have now decided the mantle of Hoolies will fall to 
them from now on in Euro 92, apparently accordingly to LBC radio in London 
about 200 youths have gone silly in the middle of Gothenburg.

On the England performance, well I bet Bobby Robson is laughing his socks off 
with the press criticism on the saviour of our football after his departure. 
Its another classic case of over hype before and slag them down afterwards with 
what in reality was an average squad.
 
As for Taylors "Playing against that football every week" then show me as I 
thought some of the skill and confidence on the ball was certainly not something 
we see too much of in England unfortunately. I think Brolin and Thern put a few 
quid on their pricetags last night. To think Spurs had Erikkson on trial with us 
this year and we didn't sign him up. Sick or what!

Cheer up England you could have had Peter Shreeves as manager and really looked 
forward to his after match press delectations.

For me I think that Swedish victory has brought the tournament fully to life. 
I think their attitude in chasing the game was brilliant even at 1 - 1 when the 
result was in their favour it was what the competition desperately needed. 

Final thought - I wonder though if it would have been a different story if the 
game had stayed at 0-0 for longer! 

antony

    
    >>  Final thought - I wonder though if it would have been a different
    >>	story if the game had stayed at 0-0 for longer! 
    
    Antony, I think the score would have been 2-0 !!
    
    Seriously though, if the English players are accustomed to playing
    against the long ball every week, how come they weren't able to handle
    it??  It should have worked to our advantage !!!
    
    I think managers should be banned from making post-game comments until
    they have had a chance to engage their brain!!
    
    
    All credit to Sweden, they played attractive, committed football and
    had the skills to match.  Perhaps we can learn something from them.
    
    
    Question about Anders Limpar.....
    
    One report explained his substitution by quoting Svensson as saying
    that " Anders looked a little bit scared....."
    
    Can anyone eloborate??
    
    PJ
    

One reason could be that Batty took Taylors pre-match comments about getting 
up his opposition quickly, a bit too literally !!! 

Another reason - Quick analysis

First Half

England (Arsenal Players 0) score 1 -- Sweden(Arsenal Players 1) Score 0

Second Half

England (Arsenal Players 2) score 0 -- Sweden(Arsenal Players 0) Score 2


resulting in a final scoreline of :

England (Arsenal Players 2) score 1 -- Sweden(Arsenal Players 1) Score 2

That might arouse "Mad Scot" McCabe.

Ha Ha

antony

    Reply 152.266
                  Giles and Dunphy nearly fell off their chairs after
    hearing Taylor's comments,Giles said Taylor must have been watching a
    other game.Dunphy had some harsh words for Taylor and Neil Webb who he
    called a useless player who can't even make the Man Utd team.I don't
    normally agree with Dunphy but for once I think he is right about
    Taylor who I am sure is a nice guy but not a international manager.
                                              Pat
    PS This note was written by my own "fingers" unlike note 219.24.
    Thanks.

    re: .267
    >>  That might arouse "Mad Scot" McCabe.
    
    ...or PJ "can-I-have-my-other-shin-back" Strage!!
    
    
    
    Antony, there is only one solution, Taylor should have included:
    	
    	   		Ian Wright
    			Tony Adams
    			David Rocastle
    			Perry Groves
    
    (Only joking about Perry!!!   Honest!!)
    
    PJ

Andy,

Andy Barefield! Any comments about last nights DISGRACEFULL performance by 
Scotland? Or have you found your medication now.

Jim

    
    You must admit the jocks had a run of luck, the first two
    goals i can only describe as own goals, and the third well if
    thats the only way they can score goals they should give up.
    
    Lets face it when England go to the World cup or the European
    championships we go to win, when Scotland qualify their happy
    with just qualifying and thats it, after that all the jocks
    say " anything than a loss is a victory" why dont they have a bit
    of confidence and go out there and try and win it.
    Thats the difference between England and Scotland, we try and win
    things and you give up when the going gets tough..
    
    

    
     
    >>Lets face it when England go to the World cup or the European
    championships we go to win, <<
    
    Eh???
    
    Must have got it a wee bit a*se for elbow the last two European
    Championships then.
    
    England's only goal was a half hit effort by a top class striker who
    couldn't even connect properly.
    
    
    Well done Scotland!!
    
    
    
    
    

    re. 271
    
    At least the Scottish came close to the 16 meter area.
    Do the English still know where they can find this? :-)
    
    BTW, what is your idea of "Going there to win" ?
    
    Bart.
    

    Re .271
    
    Gary, J-F, Dezz,
    
    At last we've found an English answer to Cunno - could one of you kind
    moderators please set up a private conference for Messrs CUNNIFFE and
    BAREFIELD ?
    
    We might then start to get back some sensible and worthwhile notes in
    this one.
    
    Rob
    

    
    
     re .271    Are you for real??
    
    
      Yes, last night, for the first time in the competition, Scotland had
    a bit of luck. However, we still deserved to win the game.
    
      As for England going to win competitions, don't make me laugh!! Along
    with the CIS they were the least attractive side in the competition. 1
    goal in 3 games against average sides speaks volumes for their efforts.
    Leaving guys like Clough and Stevens on the bench when they needed to
    beat the Swedes proves that they were more concerned about not losing
    than winning games.
    
     When the going got tough, ie 2-1 to Sweden, England were the ones who
    gave up. They hardly had a decent effort at goal once they went behind.
    The Scots at least attacked the Dutch and Germans for 90 minutes and
    created a lot of scoring opportunities.
    
     Scotland return from the competition with a lot of praise from all
    over Europe for their style of play against probably the best 2 teams
    in the world and also against the CIS who have the best record ever in
    European championship football. I don't hear any praise whatsoever for
    the England teams efforts.
    
     Danny. 

    Taylor had known from the start that the England team that graced
    Sweden was not good enough to go all the way.
    We had important players missing from the team and that showed
    at the end of the day. Engalnd never gave up what ever happened.
    The first game didn't go they way we wanted, but neither did anybody
    else's, the second game we were unlucky and the third we just needed
    that little bit extra, but over all we never gave up before the
    championships started the the jocks, we only went out there for
    one thing TO WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIPS..
     At the end of the day we needed are best players who had injuries.
    
    

    re: 271
    >>  At least England go for the win!!	<<
    
    If that's the case, England are even a worse bunch of saps than I
    previously assumed.  How many games have the English won in the last
    two European Championships???
    
    
    
    
    
    				000
    			      00   00
    			     00     00
    			      00   00
    				000
    
    
    				       ...in case you have a short memory.
    
    
    If you had said 'at least England go not to lose', you might have
    provided a more realistic assessment of the team's efforts.
    
    PJ

    Personally, I do not believe that one or two players can make the
    difference between winning a European Championship and finishing DEAD
    LAST.
    
    You could select England best and healtiest players and they still
    would not necessarily win anything.  What makes a winning team is one
    that knows how to play as a team.
    
    
    		11 individuals will be beaten by 1 team.
    
    
    So don't for a minute assume that if Barnes, Gascoigne, etc had ben
    healthy that we woudl automatically have performed any better.
    
    IMO,
    PJ

    Watched Dunphy and Giles last night....
    
    bee bop...programme starts....intro music,,,,cue to M.C. Bill o
    Herlihy.
    
    Bill:	Welcome again to our football coverage, but before we
    		start talking about tonights (Holland V Germany) game
    		I have a letter from a MRs so and so taking our panellists
    		to task for being 'anti-English'
    
    	(cue to Dunphy and Giles,,,,,trying not to snigger)
    
    Dunphy:	We are NOT being anti -English...I love the English...
    		I just cant stand their football.....
    
    Giles....	I dont think we are anti-English, but we owe it to our
    		viewers to point out incidences of bad football....and they
    		have mainly come from the England team.
    
    I must say the Giles and Dunphy duo has consistently been the most
    interesting to listen to ....they use a scratch pad...like American
    football to analyse moves, etc...point out frailties etc.
    
    Last night , Giles really proved his worth....he demanded that the 
    Studio TV crew go back to an action replay from a particular angle of
    Bergcamps goal...Hollands third...Giles was effusive about Van Bastens
    part in the goal..
    
    Apparently as Winter scorched past Sammer, Van BAsten made a dummy run
    to the near post...as he did so, Giles spotted that Van Basten was 
    looking at Winter and pointing backwards ever so slyly towards Bergcamp
    coming in behind him...so Winter does the unexpected and crosses to
    Bergcamp for a beautiful headed goal.
    
    Its really great to have Giles and Dunphy after these games..its such
    a contrast to the Denis Law type interview on ITV..
    
    Great to see good football rising to the surface, and the four most
    attractive sides, bar Scotland, are in tne semis.
    
    cheers,
    
    *Tiger*

    re .276
    
    Whining in cliches makes for dull notes conferences.
    
    Paul

    
    
    
    
    
    I think describing Scotland as an attractive side is streching it a
    bit. A guarented guttsy performance maybe, I'd much prefer to have
    seen a French side in full flow in the Semis.........
    
    ....or even an England side with Gascoine at his very best making
    the opposition look dull.......
    
    -Dom
    
    

    
    Re: .279
    
    Brian Moore and Ian St John spotted Van Bastens directions to
    the winger as well. Nice run to the near post by Marco.
    
    JN.

    
    
    re .281
    
    The French were very poor in the 3 games they played. I was also very
    suprised at the physical nature of their game. They did nothing to show
    that they are meant to be a top-class side, they didn't deserve to go
    any further.
    
    Scotland played far more attractive football than did the French.
    
     Danny.

    
    re 271 & 276
    
    Andy,
    
         why do you feel compelled to write such crap ????
    
    Although both teams are home early the truth is England deserve to be
    and Scotland don't. England went to the championships as one of the
    favourites, Scotland went as rank outsiders. During the competition
    Scotland played with guts,passion and flair.England on the other hand
    were boring and defensive and when it really came to the crunch 
    against Sweden they bottled it. It's true Scotland had a slight piece
    of luck last night but no more than we deserved. Had we gained a draw
    in either of our first two matches,which our play merited,we and not
    the Germans, would have been in the semi's.
    
    Andy Roxburgh and the boys can be proud of there performance as they
    proved they deserved to be in Europe's elite. Can Graham Taylor and his
    players say the same ?
    
    Instead of trying to take the piss out of the scottish performance why
    don't you put your sensible head on and apologise for your shocking
    attempt at humour in .222 .
    
    Del                                                             

    
    Apparently, rumour has it that Taylor wants to deploy the
    long ball tactics for future England exploits.
    
    If thats the case then Gazza will be on the bench on a 
    fairly regular basis. Taylors reason for leaving Gazza
    out of the Euro qualifier against the Republic of Ireland 
    was "this isn't Gazzas sort of game." I would say that
    you don't leave out your best players because your opponents
    like kicking the ball up in the air.
    
    Taylor only has himself to blame really especially since he
    left behind players he should have taken. There are a few
    who he shouldn't have taken.
    
    What does anyone think of the idea that Taylor is not a popular
    manager amongst the players themselves ? I don't know the guy
    myself but he doesn't strike me as a popular sort of person.
    Robson was well liked and respected by the players.
    
    I wonder if Taylor would resign under public pressure. Swales is
    being diplomatic when he says that he is happy with Taylor.
    
    JN.

    
    
    
    RICHARD CRANIUM.

    MY PREVIOUS NOTE WAS WITH REFERENCE TO MRS. BARE****.
    
    I ALSO AM AWARE THAT I AM SHOUTING.
    
    REGARDS DAVIE.

    
    
    
    For our friends down South wearing the Union Jack tinted spectacles,
    & the clown in .271 & .276, here are the final placings of the eight 
    teams competing in the section matches.
    
                   P  W  D  L  F  A  Pts
    1st  Holland   3  2  1  0  4  1   5
    2nd  Sweden    3  2  1  0  4  2   5
    3rd  Germany   3  1  1  1  4  4   3
    4th  Denmark   3  1  1  1  2  2   3
    5th  SCOTLAND  3  1  0  2  3  3   2
    6th  France    3  0  2  1  2  3   2
    7th  ENGLAND   3  0  2  1  1  2   2
    8th  CIS       3  0  2  1  1  4   2
    
    
    Kinda makes a mockery of all the previous notes slagging of the Scots &
    bumming up the English dunnit !! 
       
    8*))))
    
    
    

    
    
    Re 289 
    
    Kindly change your last reply ..........oh I've said this already
    
    : )

 
   I just wanted to say well done to both the Sweedish and Danish teams on
reaching the semi-finals. Ye both have difficult games ahead but they will be
close ones. I think there has been too much said about England, but I 
congratulate them in scoring one goal in two Euro Championships!!!!! And I can
only hope that of the English noters "kop" on to some of the garbage they write.
I mean there are some lads out there who will be writing similar crap in a years
time concerning the World cup.... 

                                                       -dave-

    
    Re -1, Aw but they're 2nd best in the world at cricket and 4th best at
    Rugby.
    
    Gary.

    
    Yeah, that's right so leave us alone.
    
    I'm off to the tiddlywinks conference.
    
    jeff

    
    I reckon that most of us are aware and therefore admit that
    depite our desire for England to do well our nations footballers
    performed well below what they have done in the past.
    
    We could go on for months as to the reasons why England are 
    basically crap but where would it get us ? Having said that
    there is nothing wrong with reading constructive comments
    about any teams performance and indeed there are a few noters
    who contribute to this conference whose notes I enjoy reading.
    
    The "I'm bigger in the trouser department than you" notes, while
    one or two can be quite witty, really do nothing for me and are
    a complete waste of time.
    
    I genuinely feel for Scotland and I'm glad they hammered the CIS
    last night. As Andy Roxburgh (SP) said last night, "I wish we could
    have spread the three goals over the three matches." Never mind
    Andy the World Cup is only around the corner.
    
    I sense that pulling on a Scotland shirt creates the same sort of
    pride as did pulling on an England shirt a couple of years ago.
    
    I think the England spirit left with the likes of Terry Butcher
    and Brian Robson.
    
    JN.

    An interesting aside to all this (and I apologise if this has been
    mentioned before today) but Taylor was on TV yesterday saying
    this has been Englands best performance in the European 
    Championship since the 70's (?). "We are just no good in
    tournaments" quote he.

    re "We are no good in tournaments"
    
    Graham, that really is a shame, because tournaments are generally the
    format the game is played in when it counts, everywhere on the
    planet... This guy is amazing with his back-pedaling excuses. he ought
    to be in politics!
    
    Tom

    I believe football owes Denmark and Sweden a favour for resurrecting
    attractive and positive play.  The reason England are out is very
    simple - their players are not good enough with one or two notable
    exceptions.  Their manager is even worse.  I mean who in their
    right mind would try and win a tournament with Carlton Palmer and ANdy
    SInton in midfield and substitute Gary Lineker up front when
    desparately needing a goal??  The decision to travel without a 
    right full was even more baffling than the decision to try everyone
    except Tony DOrigo the other recognised full back in the squad.
    
    If you analyse the First Division and try to name the players with 
    flair/pace/skill who excite the crowds very few are currently English.  
    
    This year's championship win was orchestrated by Gary McAllister and GOrdon
    strachan at 35.  David Batty did the kicking job.  Look at 
    Liverpool over the years and the pattern is the same with Danish, Irish
    Welsh and Scottish players providing the flair (John Barnes excepted) -
    Molby, Whelan, Houghton, Souness, Rush, Dalglish etc. Steve Mc Mahon did
    the kicking, SOuness did a bit as well but the difference is he could
    play also.  
    
    An earlier note mentioned Brian CLough.  If Brian CLough was manager what 
    squad would he pick?  At least half of the current bunch would be 
    redundant.  
    
    Shane
    
    

    
         Long ball,short ball what ever the England side try's to
         do at the end of the day England are CRAP !!!!!
    
              Taylor should shoot him self,even Jimmy Hill had better
              plans than him,and that is bad.

        England have proved in this Euro C'ships how bad they actually are.
They didn't have one player that stood out and nobody who wanted to take
responsibility. Players like Curle, Webb (who can't command a regular place on
a crap Man Utd side), Smith, Palmer, Sinton will never play for England again
while the keeper is also suspect.
  In contrast, it was a pleasure to watch the Scots playing so well against the
Germans and then playing so well against the CIS. Unlike England they were not
afraid to have a go and they have come out of these championships with a lot of
credibility while England were useless.
  Just one amazing statistic, England have qualified for the last two Euro 
finals and the results are as follows

            Rep of Ireland 1 England 0 (Houghton)!!!
            
                   Holland 3 England 1

                    Russia 3 England 0 (I think????)

                   Denmark 0 England 0

                    France 0 England 0

                    Sweden 2 England 1


                           OR 
           
                   P  W  D  L  F  A  PTS
    England        6  0  2  4  2  9   2


       Best Regards,

           Cunno       

    
    What about Ireland's statistics for this European championship....
    
    
    
    Played   Won  Drew  Lost  GF  GA   Pts
      0       0     0     0    0   0     0
    
    Of course... they didn't qualify did they..    :-)
    
    Paul
        

    
    Re 290
    
    if you take into account the amount of teams that started the
    championship TWO years ago....5th isn't all that bad.
    
    one very proud Scot.
    
    

    
    Mats,
    
    what happened to Stefan Rehn - ex Everton, I thought he was meant to be
    the golden boy of Swedish football ? He hasn't figured once in the
    Sweden team.
    
    Paul
    
    

    Mats,
    
    Don't be too hard on Sweden.  They played attractive football and kept
    the game flowing.  Although Germany never looked like losing, when your
    team is only ahead by one goal, anything can happen.  This match was
    good for the game of football and for that Sweden must accept a large
    part of the credit.
    
    Wll done,
    PJ

    
    	Having not been bothered to comment recently, owing to dismay 
    	at some of the drivel written in here, I would just like to
    	congratulate Denmark and Sweden on overcoming the pre-tournament
    	hyped "favourites" England and France, who were both very
    	disappointing. Also well done to Sweden for giving the Germans
    	a good run last night.
    
    	Unlike many contributors in this conference I do not enjoy watching
    	England lose. I am not blind to our shortcomings, but I am
    	patriotic enough to get behind and cheer for my country. Similarly
    	I get behind the "Jocks, Taffs and Paddies" when they are doing
    	their stuff for the cause, and love them to do well too.
    
    	It has always bewildered me why so few of the aforementioned do
    	not share my desire to see fellow "UK"ers succeed, but after 
    	some of the comments in here I suppose I shouldn't be too
    	surprised. I live in hope.....
    
    	Anyway, back to it...
    
    	Andy.
                                      

	The worst thing for England in this tournament isn't that they failed
miserably, or the lack of style etc but Taylor's comments whether immediately 
after a game or later to newspapers. Of course he could be being misquoted but
if the quotes are accurate then the FA ought to get rid of him quickly.

	As to the team can anyone come up with alternative players - I heard 
Beardsley and Waddell mentioned on the telly!


Jim

    Re .306
    
    Perhaps its the constant referring to us us as "Jocks, taffs and
    paddies"...your words not mine, Andy....that has something to do with
    it....a touch racist perhaps ???.  By and large the Uk media reflects
    this attitude, if you are at the recieving end of it, you are sensitive
    to it.
    
    If we are all Brits, then why is the 'UK' national anthem also the
    English national anthem ????   
    
    Paul

    
    
    re .last
    
     Well said that man. 
    
     The constant drivel from the so-called BBC is another reason why most
    people north of the border love seeing Englerland loose at anything and
    everything.
    
     During last night's semi-final, one of the Danish players suffered a
    serious injury. Quote one John Motson, "I wonder if that injury is
    similar to the one suffered by Paul Gascoigne"!!! Who gives a F**K!
    
     Also, during the first semi-final, Germany's Brehme crashed a
    free-kick off the bar and the ball rebounded to safety. Quote one 
    Brian Moore, "if only that had happened in 1990" referring to Brehme's
    free kick against Engerland that took a deflection into the net.
    
     The first half between Holland and Denmark had loads of controversial
    issues that would normally be replayed and discussed at half-time. What
    did we get, 5 minutes of Goalden boy Gary scoring goal after goal for
    the beloved Engerland. What the hell did that have to do with the game
    taking place in Sweden?
    
     There are many many more examples that could be added here, so you
    shouldn't be too surprised how many "jocks, taffs and paddies" love
    seeing your mob getting gubbed.
    
     Danny... 
    
     

    
    	As a foreigner, a comment from abroad about these 'cats and dogs'
    discussions:
      Why all these (nice) guys are fighting along : you have been crap, 
    no, you... your flag.. The BBC etc...
    The best way to stop these obsolete discussions is to do what all the
    other countries do, i.e. to have one national team: Great Britain.
    Such a team would have been by far better in this championship, as the
    Scots & English (and Welsh) are complementary in all lines.
      
    Pierre-Yves 
    

    
    	.310.. Jeff, I suspect you are right...the answers *do* lie
    	beyond the confines of sport. Sad, isn't it?....
    
    	.308? Paul, yes, my words, intended to demonstrate that I bear
    	absolutely NO racist (disgusting word..)intentions in the use of 
    	those terms. I did say that I can understand how the Scots, Welsh
    	and Irish enjoy seeing the FEBs (that term's been used in here 
    	before but no one suggested that was racist..) lose. I think that's 
    	sad too, in a destructive, vindictive kind-of way.
    
    	Andy.
 

   What club side does Tomas Brolin play for?

>>          <<< Note 152.314 by XSTACY::PATTISON "Where's me jumper?" >>>
>>                                 -< Question >-
>>
>>
>>   What club side does Tomas Brolin play for?
    
    
    
    Parma in Italy. He's done very well down there, and is very popular
    among the home crowd. Tomas is a very calm person, and don't get upset
    in a hurry. When reporters asked him if he was nervous before the
    Euro-games, he simply answered "no". I never heard him say anything 
    negative about other players or other teams. He was asked about the
    penaly situation against England and he said "It's the referees opinion
    that counts, not mine".
    
    Im looking forward to see him in Barcelona.
    
    Mats

    re the idea of a UK team:
    
    Imagine the controversy if the team is more one natioanlity than
    another...There is a lot of subjective analasys for the manager, when
    he decides if this player or that player would be better suited for a
    certain role. Imagine for a second it Grahm Taylor were in charge of
    the UK team, and he decided that Carelton Palmer woud be better in the
    midfield than Paul McStay because "it's not his (McStay's) type of
    game....."
    
    If you thought there was a lot of slagging now....
    
    As for the BBC, why not have Scottish commetators for the telecast
    going to Scotland, etc. It's bad enough to have them always referencing
    England in a neutral game broadcast in England, but especially if it's
    going to other areas, they should at least tone town the jingoism a
    little...
    
    Tom   
       

    
    Since we're talking about a British team,i decided to try and select
    one using the players from the two squads at Euro '92.So what do you
    think?
    
    				Goram
    
    McKimmie		Gough		Walker		Pierce
    
    Steven		McCall		McStay		McAllister
    
    			McCoist		Lineker
    
    
    Can anyone else do better?

Re: .318 

I more or less agree with you but Platt has to be in up front instead of McCoist
also I find it hard to agree to a Jock goalie but I'm probably just brain-washed

If we had had somebody other than our sixth choice right back then I would 
choose him over McKimmie.

In general, though not bad certainly not brilliant. To my mind the only pluses
it has over the England team is Gough and McStay, the latter only in the absence
of fat Gazza.

Cheers
Jamie

    
    
    If there ever was a 'UK' team, then that would also help European Club
    football in the UK, as the home nations would not be classed as 
    'foreigners' to each other. Therefore you could have English, Welsh,
    Irish and Scots in one team and still have room for some real
    'foreigners'.
    
    mac 

    Re -1
    
    If there ever was a UK team it would NOT help the clubs in European
    club football...the reason ??
    
    UEFA would only recognise the UK as one country, and therefore there
    would not be represenatives from England, Scotland, Wales and N.
    Ireland as there is at present.  This is one of the reasons why there
    is not a UK team.  This would mean that where there are approx 8 or 9
    teams representing the Uk (via Independant country representation) this 
    season, there may only be 4 or 5 places allocated to the UK if it were
    one.
    
    Hopes this makes sense, cos I started to confuse myself when I re-read
    this !!!
    Thickly yours
    Paul
    
    It would help the few (er) representatives, but not the ones who
    wouldnt find a place

    
    re -1
    
    A very good point, and maybe a good thing then that we do not have a UK
    team.
    
    I'll just go and hide in a dark cupboard
    
    mac

    
    A UK national side ???
    
    Don't think it will ever happen.
    
    Why do you you think there is all the unrest in Yugoslavia and in
    Russia (CIS) lately.
    
    You can't take 2000 years of history and make it dissapear in 90
    minutes of football.
    
    Politics should not enter any sports arena.
    
    What about the Benelux countries ??? Should they join up as well ??
    
    Me ?? I disagree with the idea, or have you already noticed. 8*)
    
    Colin.

    Colin,
    
    As a fellow Scot I agree with your sentiments and emotions.
    
    however, you state that politics should not interefere with sport, yet
    you state that 2000 years of history cannot be forgotten in 90 mins of
    sport  ie you introduced the politics.  To compare USSR and Yugoslavia
    with a UK situation is folly..were not even sure we want independence
    !!!!.
    End of politics......
    
    My points were based on the current UEFA situation regards the UK ie
    are we one country, which in political terms we are, or are we 4
    seperate nations, as currently recognised by UEFA and FIFA.  If we ever
    wanted to be a UK national team, it would be at the expense of the
    recognition that we are seperate, thus denying great football nations
    such as Costa Rica and Peru victories in World Cup tournaments....and
    we wouldnt want that to happen would we ?????
    
    Paul

    >>seperate nations, as currently recognised by UEFA and FIFA.  If we ever
    >>wanted to be a UK national team, it would be at the expense of the
    >>recognition that we are seperate, thus denying great football nations
    >>such as Costa Rica and Peru victories in World Cup tournaments....and
    >>we wouldnt want that to happen would we ?????
    
    >>Paul
    
    Paul, I don't get your point. To a stupid foreigner like me
    Great-Britain is a country comprising England, Wales, Scotland and
    Northern Ireland, and is represented as such in the United Nations.
    Costa-Rica is another country and so is Peru.
    
    Reason why some FIFA officials want to "unite" a British team.
    
    Can you be more explicit?
    
    Puzzled JF
    
    

    
    Paul,
    
    England, Wales and Scotland are separate countries, like France,
    Belgium and Germany!  The difference is that the three mentioned first
    are governed(?!?) from one place!
    
    Ian

    JF,
    
    In the UN, the representative is for the UK, ie a single country, as
    was USSR comprising a number of states/countries.  The UK is a member
    of the EEC, not Scotland or England etc.   The football
    authorities recognise us as 4 individual countries, not as a combined
    UK.  This means that in football competitions we are allowed to compete
    as seperate countries, although from a political viewpoint we are 1
    country.  eg UEFA do not allocate x entries for the UK, which is then
    divided between England Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland...they allocate
    places to each country eg 4 to England, 3 to Scotland etc.  This is why
    Scottish, Welsh and N.Irish clubs were allowed to compete in european
    competitions, while the English clubs were banned after Heysel...you
    probably didnt notice as most of them were knocked out early
    !!!!..although Dundee United lost the in UEFA cup final over 2 legs a couple
    of years ago.  I think approx 3 years ago, UEFA managed to stop France
    and Germany insisting that the UK should be recognised and represented
    as a single country.
    
    
    In a way its the exact opposite to the USSR situation at present ie
    they are allowed, as CIS, to represent the USSR as was, but in the
    future will become seperate countries.
    
    In short..Politically, the UK is a single country
              In football, we are seperate entities
    
    I think in most sports we are the UK eg athletics,etc...it will be a UK
    team in the Olympics, but seperate country representation in the
    Commonwealth games...we must have our little bit of internal rivalry !!
    
    Hope this makes sense
    
    Paul

    
    England, Wales and Scotland are part of a union dating back some three
    centuries, making it somewhat older than most other European alliances.
    Within the union, however, the three countries still have distinct
    identities and, as is quite obvious from this notesfile, inter-union
    rivalry is fierce.
    
    It should be pointed out that football is not the only sport where the
    members of the union function as separate identities. Rugby union and
    athletics (Commonwealth Games) spring to mind but I'm sure their must
    be others.
    
    On the other hand, just think what a great side Great Britain would be:
    
    
                               Seaman (Eng)
    
         Stevens (Eng)  McDonald (N.Ire)   Adams (Eng)    Blackmore (Wales)
    
         Bett (Sco)     Palmer (Eng)       Aitken (Sco)   Nicholas (Wales)
    
                        Clarke (N.Ire)     Kelly (N.Ire)
    
        Manager:  G. Taylor
    
    What a side!!! World Champions 1994.
    
    jeff   

    
    re -1 Is that David Kelly up front? - If so he plays for the ROI
    (sometimes).
    
    Tim

    
    Er, no, actually it's Gene.
    
    jeff

    
    Oh so its a celeb XI. ;-)

    The thing that gives each UK region their own footballing identity is
    that they have had their own leagues for a long long tiem (well, Wales 
    is the exception, but last I heard they were trying to get this
    together)
    
    There is no separete league in the Alsace region of France, even though
    Alsacians (or Bretons, etc.) could claim a similar cultural distinction 
    that exists in the UK.
    
    The way I understand how FIFA regards Ukraine and the other former Soviet 
    republics is that if they can organize a league, then they can then be 
    recognized as a national team, which is the way the UK operates.
    
    Tom

    Wales are setting up a Welsh league because they were alledgedly instructed
    by UEFA to do so, or lose their European allocations, as part of the
    seperate league situ mentioned in -1.
    
    Paul

    Not that this has anything to do with the topic, but which cup is it
    that Welsh teams participate? Is it the ECWC? Wrexham were in Europe a
    few years ago, I remember. There is some kind of Welsh Cup, isn't there?
    Also, most of the Welsh teams are in Div II at the most, correct?
    
    Tom

    Tom,
    
    Note 93 has an extensive discussion of this - we don't really want to
    start all this again do we?
    
    regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks

    re .328
    
    jeff,
    
    I can't find a more relevant conference for this reply, so this will
    have to do (however inappropriate)
    
    Great Britain = England, Wales and Scotland
    United Kingdom = England, Wales, Scotland and N. Ireland
    
    (The order in which the countries appear do not indicate relative
    status or importance - the order is historical only)
    
    PFC
    

    
    Aha, so my wonderful Great Britain team will have to do without the
    services of Alan McDonald, Colin Clarke and David (Gene) Kelly (who
    wasn't eligible in the first place).
    
    Still, I've got ready made replacements in Andrew Melville (Wales), 
    Dean Saunders (Wales) and the incomparable Brain McClair (Scotland).
    
    So it'd still be a team to put the fear of god up Germany, Holland etc.
    
    jeff

  
>    Great Britain = England, Wales and Scotland
>    United Kingdom = England, Wales, Scotland and N. Ireland
  
While we're having the geography lesson, how about "The British Isles", which 
also include the rest of Ireland and the Channel Islands too. 

Then maybe "Scandinavia" should just be allowed one team as well.

    Platini has resigned as French team manager.
    
    France have been awarded the 1998 world cup.
    
    Nigel

    
    Who did they beat in the final ???
    
    
    Gary..

    The Uk and channel islands team.....
    Paul
    

    So "Great Britain" does not include Northern Ireland? Under which flag
    would a N.I. Olympian compete? Not the Rep. of Ireland - different
    country, not as N.I. - IOC doesn't recognize it...
    
    re France:
    Seemed like a logical choice, since Switzwerland dropped out of the
    running cause some of their plans included Corsica-like stands. Wh else
    was being considered, Morocco? I don't know much about Morocco's
    infrastructure or whether they would have enough big, modern stadiums, etc. 
    
    Tom

    
    From my understanding the term Great Britain is ambiguous. It can mean
    England/Scotland/Wales and it can be substitued directly for the UK 
    (which is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland).
    Doesn't make too much sense does it?
    
    Tim

    
    Re .343
    
    Actually in the olympics it's quite difficult.  NI people normally
    repreent a GB team but some do repreent the Republic.  It's a lot
    harder to get on the British olympic team but the main reason some of
    them chose to repreent us is political.
    
    There is no GB football team but there is one for the Republic of
    Ireland.  One NI player- Alan Harrison was picked for  the Irish team
    in a qualifier but had to withdraw after terrorist threats.  He was a
    protestant playing for Derry City.
    
    Gary.
    Gary.

    re a few earlier.
    
    The Grauniad reported that the Morocco bid failed due to the FIFA
    official being shown 2 stadia and 9 holes in the ground on his visit
    there.  Perhaps this is a little unfair, as it was quite close for a
    few stadia for Italia 90 to be finished in time.
    
    IMO GB=UK, theres no difference, its only in some sports that we are 
    recognised as seperate countries.
    
    Paul

    
    If there are the teams of the UK or GB in the future, the we have to
    discuss if we can form a continental team ?????? EEC-UK/GB or so ?

    Usage of the terms GB & UK are inconsistent.
    
    In Soccer there are teams from England, Scotland, Wales and Northern
    Ireland.
    
    In the Olympics there is one team from Great Britain, which may include
    people from Northern Ireland which is NOT part of Britain.
    
    In Rugby Union there are teams from England, Scotland, Wales and
    IRELAND, which include players from both the republic AND Northern
    Ireland.
    
    Which means only one thing...
    
    
    
    
    It's all political BS.
    
    
    Tony.

	re .327

>    In the UN, the representative is for the UK, ie a single country, as
>    was USSR comprising a number of states/countries.  The UK is a member

	Not so. When the USSR existed, it had three UN delegations, the
	others being (if memory serves, Ukraine and Byelorussia). This
	was a compromise arrangement after Uncle Joe Stalin had objected
	to separate representation for countries in the British Empire.

	Tony