Conference thebay::joyoflex

    Can we make "ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ" silent?
    
    A from flea
    B from dumb
    C from scene
    D from bridge
    E from note
    F from RTFM
    G from gnu
    H from henry higgins
    I from weird
    J from
    K from know
    L from
    M from
    N from damn
    O from
    P from pneumonia
    Q from
    R from
    S from
    T from
    U from
    V from
    W from jaw
    X from
    Y from
    Z from jazz [the second one (-:]

    M from mnemonic	(if you pronounce it carelessly :-) )
    O from Oedipus
    R from car		(if you're from Boston or Reading)
    
    Pedantically, your examples for E and I don't count as they modify
    the previous vowel sound.
    
    Jeff.

	J from Jugoslavia
	L from Calm
	O from Potatoe (P'tatoe)
	Q from Dos Equuis
	T from Stretch
	
	Steve

    U from plague
    
    -jody
    

    E from Euclid.

    Re .2:
    
>>    Pedantically, your examples for E and I don't count as they modify
>>    the previous vowel sound.
    
    I was just testing to see if you all were awake!
    
    For some reason it's harder to slip those things by in this
    conference! (-:
    
    Dan

      Re .3
      
      >    O from Potatoe (P'tatoe)

      Do you mean O from Potato (Puhtay'tuh)?
      
      Dave C.

    O in opossum?

    Ah er G'day, 
    
    on a more lighter level, What does 'potoooooooo' spell?
    
    potatoes - pot-8-'o's  
    
    Sorry
    
    How about
    F U NE M ?
    F U NE X ?
    S EV M
    S EV X
    R N, M N X !
    
    EREK
        
    

>    How about
>    F U NE M ?
>    F U NE X ?
>    S EV M
>    S EV X
>    R N, M N X !

When I heard it, it went:

	F U N E M ?
	S V F M
	F U N E X ?
	S V F X .
	N R F M N X .
	R! V F N 10 E X .
	O, Y?
	I F E 10 M
        
    	Steve



Meanwhile, back at the subject of this topic, I looks like I got away with most
of the examples such as Q and X (which I thought were cheating) - at least
someone challenged O! 

    re: E and I
    
    	How about:	E as in "steak"
    			I as in "wield"
    
    re: "X as in Quixote"
    
    	This isn't valid. The fact that the "x" is not pronounced
    	like an "x" does not make it silent. It's pronounced like
    	an "h" (i.e. the name is pronounced "kee-ho'-tay").
    
    	So how about:	X as in "prix"
    
    re: "Q as in Dos Equis"
    
    	Same reasoning as above. The "qu" is pronounced like a "k".
    	It isn't silent.
    
    --- jerry

    How about multiple Us and Es in  'queue'

    Re .-1:  How about multiple Us and Es in  'queue'
    
    You mean it *doesn't* rhyme with "gooey"??? (-:

    Thought of a couple of other words that can/should provide some
    missing letters, but I will leave it up to the originator of this
    exercise to make the ruling. As a matter of fact, it might be time
    for a recap of _official_ words.
    
    Worcestershire    pronounced Wooster should be good for some.
    
    The other one is that town in Mass that only New Englanders seem
    able to pronounce properly, so I won't try  Lemonster (I can't even
    spell it correctly) but you know which it is. Someone help.
    

>    The other one is that town in Mass that only New Englanders seem
>    able to pronounce properly, so I won't try  Lemonster (I can't even
>    spell it correctly) but you know which it is. Someone help.

That's Leominster, pronounced Lemon-stir.  

    
    As for the "other one", I think you mean Leominster (Lemster - UK
    English) which is in er. .  Shropshire (?) UK, the county town of which
    is Shrewsbury
    
    		Shrewsbury --> Shrewsbury
    		Shrewsbury --> Shrovesbury
    
    depending upon which side of the river you come from !!
    

    
    	The Leominster in England, UK, is pronounced "LEMSTER".
    
    	What about S'Hertogenbosch, pronounced "Denboss"  :-)

    > What about S'Hertogenbosch, pronounced "Denboss"  :-)
    
    Or 's Gravenhage, pronounced Den Haag (or The Hague, or La Haye)?

    Jeff :-)

    Massachusetts (as well as Old England) also have:
    
          Leicester   -> Lester   (Or Lesta if your a native.)
         
          Gloucester  -> Glosster
    
          
    
    And it should be noted that Worcester is _not_ pronounced the same
    as Wooster, Ohio.   Phonetically, it would be closer to Wuster (with
    a soft 'u' close to the sound in 'wood', but not as soft as in 'bus'.

    
    Enough with all these English towns!!
    
    If you want a real UK town name, try:
    
    Llanfairpwyllgwyngyllgogerychwyryndrobwyllllantisiliogogoch
    
    	(It's in Wales, and the sign at the train station is longer than
    the platform). I'm sure you folks can find some interesting sounds
    therein.
    
    -Glinch.

Re: -.1

That's not really fair!!!  That's Welsh, not English!

Perhaps not in the same league, but within the same order of magnitude,
we have a lake in Massachusetts which still carries its original American
Indian name:  Lake Chargoggagoggmanchaugagoggchaubunagungamaug. And it's
even pronouncable too!

I think this may have been discussed elsewhere in this conference a year or
two back, but there is an apocryphal legend (although denied by the experts) 
to the effect that the name was derived as the settlement of a quarrel by
two neighboring Indian tribes about where each had fishing rights in the lake.
It is supposed to mean: "You fish on your side, I'll fish on my side, and
nobody will fish in the middle."

[Since the lake is situated in the town of Webster, Mass. it is more
commonly referred to as "Webster Lake", but you will find either its full or
an abbreviated version of the correct name on many maps.]

    re: Worcester, Gloucester, Leicester, etal
    
    	I have heard that the pronunciation can seem a little clearer
    	if you break up the word properly.  For instance, in the case
    	of Worcester, The forst syllable is "worce" (Worss with a real
    	soft "r") and the second is "ster".  Or Glouce-ster or Leice-ster.
    	The "e" following the "c" only serves to make the "c" soft,
    	it does not make a sound of its own, which, if it did, would
    	create the third syllable on which so many people seem to get
    	caught.
    
    	Joe Oppelt

    Re: .25  -< There is no "R" in "Lake Chog..." >-
    
    You had better check your references again!
    
    It may be a New England "silent R" when pronounced, but it sure as 
    h*** appears as the fourth letter in the name.  If you need further
    convincing, I can send you a copy of a map of the town of Webster on
    which the name is spelled out in its entirety.

.25>    -< There is no "R" in "Lake Chog..." >-
    
    	Next, you'll be telling me there is no "P" in Lake Chog.
    
    -mike z

    -er-	as in	terse
    -ir-	as in	hirsuit
    -or-	as in	worse
    -ur-	as in	nurse
    -yr-	as in 	myrrh
    
    Any more vowels that combine with r to make the -er- sound
    (not Ur sound)?
    
    b
    

Re. ,-1:

-ear-	as in pearl or hearse
-our-	as in the British honour or colour (Perhaps?)


Larry

    Isn't the idea here to make new spellings of words using alternative
    phonetic equivalents, such as the ghoti (perhaps a truit?) of the
    title?
    
    
    Ian.

    re: .28
    
    In New England you also have
    
         -a
    
    as in "winter ski parkers on sale."
    
    Or, "Flight 345 to Omaher, Nebrasker, has been delayed."
    
    --bonnie

    G'day,
    
    Just had a spare min or two so here is a (rotten) attempt :
    
    
    
    		CPTAARGH POUGHOSEARE
    
    Made up like this:-
    
    
       suh as in neCessary          	C 
                                       
       tuh as in PTomaine		PT
                 
                   
    	ar as in AARdvark 		AAR
    
          
        f  as in couGH			GH
    
    
    	P is silent as in swimming ;-)  P
    
        oh as in cOUgh			OU
    
    	f  as in couGH			GH
    
    	ih as in wOmen			O
    
    	suh as in Search		S
    
    	er as in LEARn			EAR
    
    	e is silent as in arE           E
                                       
    
     Gives us
    
    
    
     Staff Officer  - using the southern English pronunciation
       STARF Officer rather than staff as in Daffodil.
    
    So there!
    
    Derek

     re: .28
    
    -ar-        as in   altar

    The pronunciation doesn't alter with the meaning.

    Re .21:
>    Llanfairpwyllgwyngyllgogerychwyryndrobwyllllantisiliogogoch
                                                          ^^^^
    That ...GOGOGOCH! You missed one go.
    			Denis.

re .35

>    That ...GOGOGOCH! You missed one go.

And I presume she doesn't get her 200 dollars.

Dave C.

    On the contrary!  She passed go.

    re: .35
    
    	Ooooh. I hate it when I misspell
    
    "Llanfairpwyllgwyngyllgogerychwyryndrobwyllllantisiliogogogoch".
    
	Yep, it should have a "...gogogoch" on the end.
    
    	On the other hand, it _did_ take two years for someone to
    	find it!!
    
    
    	-Glinch (who still pronounces it correctly anyway)
    

    Ok Glinch,
    
    challenge for yah, write me the phoentic spelling of it.
    
    
    Paul

    
    	No can do. The sound of the Welsh 'LL' does not exist in the
    	modern English language, nor in its alphabet. I could write
    	how to make the sound, but when you tried it you'd get spit 
    	all over your CRT. :-)
    
    	The 'CH' is roughly the same as a German guttural sound.
    
    	The 'f' as is the 'fair' is sounded as 'v', so that syllable
    	comes out sounding like 'vire' (rhymes with 'fire').
    
    	The 'w' is pronounced 'oo', so 'pw' is pronounced 'poo'
    	(Hmm... In Wales is it Winnie the Pw? But I digress.)
    
    	-- Glinch	
    	

    The "ll" is a voiceless "l".
    
    	-John Bishop

Where/when did Shaw (Bernard? Or are there other's famous enough to be 
addressed by last name only?) mention that "ghoti" could be pronounced 
"fish"?

I.e. what's the story behind this?

Thanks,
...petri

    I wouldn't be surprised if it was the Preface to Pygmalion if there
    was one (he usually wrote a[n] (often voluminous) preface to his
    dramas.
    
    I'd be even less surprised if I was proved wrong.
    
    b

    I don't have a reference, but it was during an argument about spelling
    reform.  He was for such reform, and used "ghoti" as an example of the
    need for reform.
    
    Since Shaw was capabable of arguing about spelling reform in the
    preface to a play, it could be anywhere.
    
    		-John Bishop

    More spelling reform.  Try "kaughphy" - what does this "word" spell,
    and why is it particularly interesting?
    
    -dick

>>  Try "kaughphy".
    
    I get "coffee", though I don't see why this is particularly
    interesting.
    
    
    regards...
    ...diane

    f = gh = ph  ?

    	I think it starts off as "k" as in "knight", and you can pronounce
    it with your mouth shut?

    Perhaps the interesting thing is that this spelling forces a
    pronunciation that isn't used in British English, so that "kaughphy" is
    in this sense more precise than "coffee". If "au" can indeed make a
    short /o/ in RBP [I can't think of a case off hand, but maybe there is
    one], the interesting thing changes but is related: the "au" spelling
    allows for the same two pronunciations as the "o".
    
    b

>    Perhaps the interesting thing is that this spelling forces a
>    pronunciation that isn't used in British English, so that "kaughphy" is
>    in this sense more precise than "coffee". If "au" can indeed make a
>    short /o/ in RBP [I can't think of a case off hand, but maybe there is
>    one], the interesting thing changes but is related: the "au" spelling
>    allows for the same two pronunciations as the "o".

Lemmesee ...

augh as in Laugh would be pronounced in certain parts of the UK as if
spelled lahff which would give an *almost* southern drawled cah-fee.

in other parts of England it would be laff which would render caffee.

augh as in the name Waugh would render a more short 'o' like sound, but
definitely not quite, because this name would be pronouced like war
without the terminal 'r' or any terminal inflection (as in the style of
the New England 'r' conservation).



Probably closer to coffee would be koughphy ough as in cough ... (hack hack!)


Stuart

    
    Diane, didn't you used to have "jersey girl" as a personal name? If so,
    we may be able to clear this up.
    
    In northern New Jersey, it's "cawfee" and "chawklit" rather than coffee
    and chocolate...
    
    JP (refugee from Bergen County, NJ)

    JP
    
>>    Diane, didn't you used to have "jersey girl" as a personal name? If so,
    
    yup.
    
>>    In northern New Jersey, it's "cawfee" and "chawklit" rather than coffee
    
    I see your point.  Perhaps this goes back to the UNIX-eunuchs debate - 
    we tend to hear what we expect, not what is.  Or, in this case, we hear
    what is, and it sounds "perfickly nawmal".
    
    So, now that you've escaped, how do you pronounce "coffee"?
    
    
    regards...
    ...diane

    Who named Australia?  How did they pronounce it at that time?
    
    And what was the auld pronunciation of a forgot acquaintance?
    
    Even if those words were not English, the pronunciation should come
    automatically.

    'au' also sounds like RBP 'o' in Austria...
    
    Nick

What's interesting about "kaughphy" is that it contains none of the
letters present in the word whose pronunciation it mimics.

Well, hey, *I* think it's an interesting comment on the lack of spelling
and pronunciation standards in the English language.

-dick

...was named by European cartographers in the 1600s, using Latin.  The
name was originally Terra Australis, which is a feminine singular Latin
phrase that means "southern land."  The original pronunciation would
have been roughly au-`strah-liss, where au is pronounced as in German.

Tha name gradually migrated to Australia (Au-`strah-lyah) through the
unscholarly misapprehension that "terra" is a plural neuter form meaning
"lands."  "Australia" is the correct neuter plural of "australis."

The modern pronunciation with a long `a' sound evolved in English as
-strah- became -strye- which then became -stray- in the same manner that
the latin -ae- sound, which was originally like our long letter `i' (as
in "wise"), was allowed to become -ay- (as in "pay").

-dick

    G'day,
    
     No wonder the inhabitants call it Oz.... all that interlectshul
    stufff!!
    
    
    8-)
    
    
    
    derek
    and they speak 'strine'.....
    
    

    
    Re: .52
    
    I pronounce coffee such that the first syllable rhymes with the first
    syllable of sophomore. But my family looks at me strangely when I do...
    
    I think (hope) that the time I spent in Ohio, Maryland, and now New
    Hampshire has left me with a "standard American" accent. I wish I was
    better at reproducing accents because I just love the sound of a West
    Virginia drawl or a down-easter (Maine) or a Scots burr.
    
    However, I can say "Balmer, Marlin" (that's Baltimore, Maryland to the
    rest of the English-speaking world.
    
    JP

    Ohio, if it was northern Ohio, may have helped you toward speaking
    standard American, but Maryland and New Hampshire won't.
    
    Iowa, the eastern Dakotas, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, northern
    Illinois, northern Indiana, and northern Ohio are almost entirely
    standard American.  Outside of that it gets problematic.

    
    Yup, it was Cleveland, on the shores of beautiful Lake Erie. Now that
    you mention it, I remember taking a trip to southern Ohio, near
    Kentucky. I had a real hard time understanding the local dialect at
    all!
    
    JP

    Growing up in OHIO, I remember that if you asked someone to pronounce
    three or four words you could pretty well place them around the state.
    
    eg: OHIO  
    	prounounced Oh-HIGH-Yoh placed you NorthWest
    		    Oh-HIGH-Yuh placed you South of Columbus ("C'lumbis")
    		    Oh-HIGH-Yer placed you West (I think) near In-Dee-AN-er
    
        PEN
    	pronounced  Pehn = Northern OHIO
                    Pihn = Suth'n Ohia   ("pihn? Ball-point or safety?")
    
        Don't remember any others.

    Well, I went to college near C'lumbis.  Another nearby town was 
    "Nerk", which was somewhat confusing to a native Jerseyan, who'd
    always thought it "NEW'rk".  I'm told in Delaware, it's "newARK".
    
    
    
    
    regards...
    ...diane

>        PEN
>    	pronounced  Pehn = Northern OHIO
>                    Pihn = Suth'n Ohia   ("pihn? Ball-point or safety?")
    
    In Mazeura, we pronounced both "pin" and "pen" as "pehn".
    
    Ray

    During my days in Ohio, I thought I heard the pronunciation of the
    state name as uh-HI-uh (but that would be harder for the OSU band to
    spell :-).