Conference thebay::joyoflex

    Atlantic Ocean      -  Atlantik or Atlantischer Ozean
    Mediterranean Sea   -  Mittelmeer
    Caspian Sea         _  Kaspisches Meer
    Dead Sea            _  Totes Meer
    Lake Superior       _  Oberer See
    Walden Pond         -  no idea
    Bay of Bengal       -  Golf von Bengalen or Bengalischer Golf
    Gulf of Mexico      -  Golf von Mexiko
    Strait of Gibraltar -  Strasse von Gibraltar
    English Channel     -  Englischer Kanal
    --------------------
    some more
    North Sea           -  Nordsee
    Baltic Sea          -  Ostsee
    Black Sea           -  Schwarzes Meer
    Irish Sea           -  Irische See
    Indish Ocean        -  Indischer Ozean
    Persian Gulf        -  Persischer Golf
    etc...
                           
    
    

    Lake Superior       -  Lac Superieur
    
    Walden Pond         -  _pond_ is translated as _etang_ or if it
                           is small as _mare_. However, I thought 
                           Walden Pond was a proper name, like New York,
                           and therefore _Pond_ would not be translated.
    

    Re .3:
    
    >                                      ...      However, I thought 
    >                       Walden Pond was a proper name, like New York,
    >                       and therefore _Pond_ would not be translated. 
    
    Interesting.  That thing that separates Mexico from Texas is, to
    the Mexicans and other Spanish speakers "The big river" (Rio Grande);
    to Texans and other Americans, it's "the Rio Grande river." {The
    "big river river"?}  Under the same logic, might not Walden Pond
    be called "Walden Pong etang" in French?
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    English channel - Aermelkanal
    
    Marion

    Atlantic Ocean      -  Atlantische Oceaan            
    Mediterranean Sea   -  Middellandse Zee
    Caspian Sea         _  Kaspische Zee  
    Dead Sea            _  Dode Zee  
    Lake Superior       _  Boven Meer ('boven' means 'on top')
    Walden Pond         -  Walden Meer, or W.Ven, or W.Wiel, or W.Vijver
    Bay of Bengal       -  Golf van Bengalen
    Gulf of Mexico      -  Golf van Mexico
    Strait of Gibraltar -  Straat van Gibraltar
    English Channel     -  Het Kanaal (only the English think it's theirs...)
    --------------------
    some more
    North Sea           -  Noordzee
    Baltic Sea          -  Oostzee
    Black Sea           -  Zwarte Zee              
    Irish Sea           -  Ierse Zee
    Indish Ocean        -  Indische Oceaan
    Persian Gulf        -  Perzische Golf
    Cardigan Bay	-  Cardigan Baai

    I just returned from a vacation trip to England and I noticed that
    on a lot of old maps the North Sea is labelled "The German Sea"
    or "The German Ocean".  Do any of our history/geography buffs have
    and background on when it became the North Sea?

    Re .8:
    
    I'll hazard a guess -- World War I, when many names with a germanic
    flavor were anglicized ... including that of the Royal Family, from 
    Battenberg (I think) to Mountbatten.

    MLNOIS::HARBIG
                  In Italian if the name is very common it is
                  seldom that the sea or ocean is added as in 
                  English it is I think more common to refer
                  simply to "the Atlantic" rather than the
                  "Atlantic Ocean"
                   Therefore:-
                   L'Atlantico
                   Il Mediterraneo
                   Il Caspio
                   Il Mar Morto
                   Il Lago Superiore
                   Walden Pond is a label associated with Thoreau and
                   is not usually translated but Pond could be translated
                   as Lago (lake) Laghetto(small lake) or like French
                   etang as stagno although this would usually refer
                   to a very small, marshy stretch of water (stagno.... 
                   stagnant)
                   La Baia di Bengala                
                   Il Golfo di Messico
                   La Stretta di Gibilterra                                  
                   La Manica (it means a sleeve)
         
             Re .9
                   Your probably right not only did the Battenbergs
                   change their name but Lord Louis Mountbatten who
                   was First Sea Lord and German, naturalised British,
                   resigned at the beginning of World War I.
                   The British Royal Family also changed its name to
                   Windsor about the same time from Saxe-Coburg, I think,
                   or was that only Prince Albert's name ?
                                                   Max

    In Italy, if you happen to take a train ticket for Monaco,
    that may give you an opportunity to visit Bavaria. 

    Why ?
    		roger
    

    re: -1
    Because Monaco is the Italian name for ... Munich !

    		roger
    

    MLNOIS::HARBIG
                  Re .12 that is why it is almost always referred
                  to as Monaco di Bavaria unless its location is
                  evident from the context.
                  Otherwise you can also end up with a ticket to
                  France instead of Germany.
                  Now the translation of monaco is monk and the
                  Principality of Monaco is supposed to be so named
                  because the ruling family, Grimaldi, is supposed
                  to have captured the place by disguising their
                  soldiers as monks but does Munchen in German have
                  anything to do with the german word for monk i.e.
                  is Monaco a translation into italian or just more 
                  easier to pronounce considering we haven't got an
                  umlaut.
                            Max            
                                             

    < ARE YOU READY FOR RUSSKIE VERSION (TRANSLITERATIONS OF COURSE) ? >
    
    ENGLISH CHANNEL	[ANGLIYSKY KA-'NAL]                         
    ATLANTIC OCEAN	[ATLANTICHESKY OKEAN]
    DEAD SEA		[MERTVOYE MOHRE]
    GULF OF MEXICO	[MEXICANSKY ZALIV]
    WALDEN POND		[VOLDAYSKOYE OZERO] (I THINK)
    MEDITERRANEAN SEA   [SREDIZEMNOYE MOHRE] 
    
    	SEE IF YOU CAN PRONOUNCE THAT CORRECTLY (IF ANY)
    
    VLADIMIR     [VLADIMIR]

    Re .3
    
    I am under the impression that the Mexicans refer to the Rio Grande as
    Rio Bravo.  If this is indeed the case, it is rather curious.  How did
    English speakers acquire a Spanish name for something that Spanish
    speakers don't even use? 
    
    Re .9
    
    The process of replacing German names during WWI can be rather
    interesting.  St. Petersberg in Russia, for example, was renamed to
    Petrograd (of course later renamed to Leningrad).  In the U.S., the
    term "hot dog" was used in place of "frankfurter", and "victory
    cabbage" was the often used instead of "sauerkraut".  This latter
    example just proves that this process was not always so successful.
    
    -- Mike

    Re .15:
    
    >                    ...                       In the U.S., the
    >term "hot dog" was used in place of "frankfurter", and "victory
    >cabbage" was the often used instead of "sauerkraut".  This latter
    >example just proves that this process was not always so successful.
    
    That's not so surprising.  "Hot dog" has fewer syllables than "frank-
    furter," regardless of the geopolitical climate.  Also, the terms
    are mixed, with "franks" and "hot dogs" used fairly evenly.  "Frank-
    furter" tends to be used in formal conversations, though.
    
    "Victory cabbage" was obviously a temporary term used during a war.
    How many "victory" anythings are used these days?  The closest thing
    I can recall is that some people still use "victory garden" to apply
    to a small vegetable garden grown at one's home.  And the reason
    that has even the currency it does is because of the PBS program
    _Crockett's Victory Garden_.  Now if they's called it something
    less war-related, say, "Hot slaw," it might still be in use today.
    [Note: it took me four or five minutes to come up with something
    nonderogatory as a term for Sauerkraut, which I am not fond of,
    but that's word biz...].
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    > ...Now if they's called it something
    > less war-related, say, "Hot slaw," it might still be in use today.
    > [Note: it took me four or five minutes to come up with something
    > nonderogatory as a term for Sauerkraut, which I am not fond of,
    > but that's word biz...].
    
    Hot slaw -- hmm, interesting.  If that name ever caught on, I'm sure
    some future note in this conference would ask how "Cold Slaw" became
    "Cole Slaw," and the folk etymologists would have a field day.

    Coincidentally, I strolled through the Fenway Victory Gardens
    yesterday.  I believe that "Victory Garden" ss the only surviving use
    of "Victory <noun>."

    					andrew

    Re .17:
    
    If "hot slaw" had ever caught on, I'll betcha that "cole slaw" would
    have metamorphized into "cold slaw."  It would have taken maybe
    two generations....
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    Re: .16 [Re: .15]
    
        "That's not so surprising.  'Hot dog' has fewer syllables than
    	'frankfurter,' regardless of the geopolitical climate.  Also,
    	the terms are mixed, with 'franks' and 'hot dogs' used fairly
    	evenly.  'Frankfurter' tends to be used in formal conversations,
    	though."
    
    In my experience, one tends to avoid references to frankfurters,
    by whatever name, in formal conversations.
    
Lew Lasher

    Re .19:
    
    >In my experience, one tends to avoid references to frankfurters,
    >by whatever name, in formal conversations.
     
    Must have been rough when announcing Supreme Court decisions...
    :-D
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    
    
    
    
    
    
          The cole in cole slaw comes from kale which means cabbage.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

But, if kale means cabbage, then what are those TWO DIFFERENT vegetables
in the Star Market, one of which is called "kale" and the other of which
is called "cabbage" ?

/Eric

    Most cabbage has leaves that form a dense, tight head. 
    
    Kale, however, is a variety or type of cabbage with "loose 
    fitting" leaves. Kale is cabbage with a flaky head.    
    
    

    Reminds me of the Spike Jones version of the William Tell overture:
    
    [Horse racing announcer]:
    
     "Its Banana, coming up through the bunch.."
    
     "Now, its Cabbage, by a head..."
    
    Unfortunately, memory fails me on the other horses.
    

re: .24  "And Toothpaste is being squeezed on the rail!"

  -- Sam

    And Mother-in-law nagging in the rear...
    
    and the winner is...
    
    Beetlebomb

One of my favorite jokes I execute at restaurant salad bars.

As another customer is navigating the tongs in the satellite dish, you
know, the one horizontal and full of lettuce, I glance at them and
decide if they seem like they have a sense of humour.

If so, I pipe in with:

	"Hayyyyyyy, goin' for the honey moon salad, eh ?"

Hopefully they respond with something like

	"What ?  Honeymoon salad, what do you mean ?"

And now I've got 'em where I want 'em:

	"you know, lettuce alone, with no dressing !"

/Eric

In the same sketch, I remember the following fragments:

"Safety Pin has been scratched."

"Mother-in-law nagging behind"

I have the radio bit on a record at home, and if I can
find the bit, I'll put in the other names.

Of course, the winner was Beetlebaum.

Sam

    Re .26, .28:
    
    >Of course, the winner was Beetlebaum.

    Actually, there was something of a minor controversy as to whether
    it was "Beetlebomb," "Feedlebaum," or any of several very close-
    sounding names.  The announcer-of-the-moment, Doodles Weaver, never
    answered when asked how one spelled the name of the winner.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    re:.4 ("Rio Grande River")
    
    Sounds similar to the etymology for Torpenhow Hill.
    
    --- jerry

    Re: .17 "Cole slaw" comes directly from the Dutch "Kool sla", meaning
    quite simply, "Cabbage salad".  Presumably, the German and Scandinavian
    forms are similar.
    
    Re: .21 I guess "kale" has a similar derivation.
    
    My dictionary has the ultimate (?) etymology as Latin "caulis",
    meaning "stem, or cabbage".  So that's where cauliflour comes from!
    
    And ... it gives "cabbage" as coming from Middle English "caboche"
    from Old Norman French, meaning "head".
    
    So there.
    Jeff.

    Re: .-1
    
    That just about puts the caboche on it.  This note's tangents
    have finally crossed with those of note 31.
    
    b