Conference thebay::joyoflex

  John Doe and Jane Doe are usually used to refer to individuals whose
  real names are not known, such as unidentified murder victims, or abandoned
  babies: "Baby Jane Doe".

  For "just somebody in the street", I believe "Plain Joe" is the expression,
  or "Tom, Dicken and Harry".  Interestingly, no last-names are involved.

  Duncan.

    Well, I believe that "John Smith" is used as a generic name because
    "John" is the most common first name and "Smith" is the most common
    last name.  Using these criteria, I'm sure that there are analogous
    names in other languages.
    
    -Tom

    Ivan Ivanovich Ivanov

In the U.S., John Q. Public is the generic man in the street.  John Doe is
also used for that, with the additional burden of being legalese for an
unknown male.

    How about Tommy Atkins for the UK?  Or is that military only?

    lest we forget...
                                J. Random Hacker
    and the ever-popular
                                     FooBar

	This is not what you want, .0, but here is how John Smith comes out
	in as many languages as I can think of:

		Lang.		John		Smith

		French		Jean		LeFevre (sp?)
		German		Johann		Schmidt
		Dutch		Jan (?)		Smits
		Italian		Giovanni	Ferraro
		Spanish		Juan		Herrara
		Czech		Jan (?)		Kovacs
		Polish		Jan (?)		Kowalski

	Please fill in the blanks or correct my errors.

		-- Cliff

	P.S.  Maybe someone else would like to do the same for John 
	Johnson, another popular name.

Joe Average.

My grandmother used to talk about Moishe Pippik.   (I think that surname
means belly-button.)

Dave C.

    Re .7: I'd say that for French, it's Jean Dupont, although in recent
    censuses (or is that censi? ;^) ), Martin has been shown to be a more
    common surname than Dupont. I've never seen Lefevre (or Lefebvre, which
    is as common) used for that purpose, although it is indeed a very
    common name. Sometimes people also use the name "Monsieur (or Madame)
    Dupont-Durand".
    			Denis.

    Re:.7
    
>		German		Johann		Schmidt
>>		Dutch		Jan (?)		Smits
    
    It's        Dutch           Jan             Smit
    
    but that one isn't used as a generic 'someone's' name. Quite often you
    see Jan Modaal, but that bears more resemblance to Joe Average. His 
    German cousin is Otto Normalverbraucher (Otto Standardconsumer).
    
    BTW. Kowalski is used by Germans as a (derogatory) standard surname for
    Poles.


                                                 - Rik -
    

    In Sweden we talk about Medel-Svensson ("Average-Svensson"), or just	
    Svensson, as the average man on the street. No first name.
    
    This is based on a belief that Svensson is the most common surname,
    maybe it was, but that's not true anymore. Actually the most common	
    name in Sweden would be Maria Andersson. (There are more women than 
    men around here.... Well, I'm not one to complain ;^)
    
    Hans

Well, I've heard that the most common surname in the world is Chang.  The most
common given name in the world is Mohammed.  Ergo, the most common name in the 
world should be...

Mohammed Chang

Wook (Which is not so common even in Korea)
Lee (Which is like Smith in Korea.  Actually, Lee, Kim and Park in that order
     are the most common surnames in Korea.  Chang is fourth.)

    In one of the most often-referenced US Legal cases, "Roe" was used as a
    psedonym for the plaintiff, so it must be recognized as a "generic"
    name
    
    unless someone with a JOYOFLEX sense of humor was making a really awful
    pun :-)

	 This doesn't really apply to this topic, but anyways -

	 Does anyone know what the name Levasseur means?

    	My French dictionary gives "vaseux (euse)" as literally "vase
    shaped", i.e., bigger at the bottom than the top, with various common
    usages, some of which could be applied to people. It also gives
    "vassal" with the same meaning as in English. On the other hand it
    could come from "the person who comes from Warsaw" (Varsovie in modern
    French).
    
    	I could also imagine a derivation from "lever" in the sense of "to
    wake up". In the days when clocks were uncommon many towns in England
    had a "knocker upper" whose job was to knock on peoples' bedroom
    windows with a long cane to ensure they got up in time for work. The
    job was sometimes combined with that of night watchman. I assume there
    must have been a similar system in France.
    
    	A final thought is that if the name came from N.E. France, where
    French and German are fairly freely mixed, it could mean someone whose
    job involved water.
    
    	All of the above are amateur guesses. There are companies in France
    that will research place of origin and family tree if the question is
    of more than idle curiosity.
    
    	Dave

    Re .15: Dave, you have indeed gone very far into your research, but I'm
    afraid that, except for one of your hypothesises, you are really off
    the mark.
    
>    	My French dictionary gives "vaseux (euse)" as literally "vase
>    shaped", i.e., bigger at the bottom than the top, with various common
>    usages, some of which could be applied to people.
    
    	What is your dictionary? This is one of the biggest "contresens"
    I've ever read. There are two words "vase" in French, one masculine,
    which has the same meaning as the English word, and one feminine, which
    means "mud" or "slime". The adjective "vaseux" only applies to the
    feminine name and means "muddy" or "slimy".
    
    	Your correct hypothesis is the one about "vassal": "vasseur" is an
    Old French form of "vassal", used mostly in the Northern half of
    France, as well as "vavasseur" which means "the vassal of a vassal".
    Today "Levasseur", "Vavasseur" or "Levavasseur" are rather common
    family names in France and mean "vassal" or "vassal of a vassal". The
    origin of these names is well known and documented in any Old French or
    Family Names dictionary. I've never heard of any Germanic origin for
    those words, except that it's possible that originally the word
    "vassal" might have come from a Frankish rather than Latin root (I've
    no idea on this specific point).
    		Denis.

    	I knew I shouldn't provide a reply with the risk that you might be
    watching :-)
    
    	I was going to suggest another derivation from "le farceur" but
    that would involve a consonant shift I think most unlikely, and it is
    now irrelevant anyway ;-)  At least I gave you some amusement by my
    misunderstanding of "vase".
    
    	Dave, le farceur.

<    The origin of these names is well known and documented in any Old French or
<    Family Names dictionary. 

So, Denis, can you tell me about the name duBois/DuBois/Dubois?  :-)

    Carol duBois

    	After my previous success I can't resist suggesting that it comes
    from the Old English word "dubious" ;-)

    G'day,
     Ahh well you wood, woodent you. 
    
    then there are Messrs (and Madames)
    
    LeVert, suffered from fear of a height
     LeBlanc  kept going mindless
    Renoir (he kept on re-painting things black)
    LeMonde  thought himself everybody
    
    ...
    
    derek
    

    Monohan, with one Chinese parent

    Pepin, needledick
    

  .16  merci mille fois, Denis

    Speaking of "The Naming of Names," I happened to see a billboard near
    Boston's Logan Airport yesterday, with a bottle of Amaretto Di Saronno
    all dolled up in holiday garb.  The caption:
    
    'Tis Di Season
    
    So... to the eponymous Ms. DesMaisons:  I had NO idea you were so
    culturally significant!
    

  ho ho, etc.  ;>

        Re .22
        
        From the Latin pipinna, meaning a little boy's mentula.

    how about Gelineau?
    
    (please don't tell me it means "ice".... :)   )
    
    --angela

    	"gelinotte" is a type of grouse, if that helps.

    Re .27, .28: You beat me to it, Dave. As for the meaning of Gelineau,
    beside what you just entered I'm afraid I'll have to check some
    references before being able to answer properly. I can't do it before
    next week-end unfortunately (that is, if I manage at all to remember
    it, but I'll try, don't hesitate to remind it to me if I forget).
    			Denis.

    And a gelideaunotte might appease someone who grouses too much?

    Dave, Denis - thanks (i think...)  I really would appreciate
    it if you would look into the meaning of my surnae.  Hmmmm,
    after finding out it may ~grouse, "ice" doesn't look so bad.
    
    Norm:  grrrrrrrrrrrooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnn
    	   (but funny nonetheless!)
    
    --Angela

    	Nothing wrong with "grouse"! All the women in my family are birds.
    My wife is Mavis (old English for song thrush), my elder daughter is
    Merle (French for blackbird) and my younger daughter is Linnet.

    funny, come to think of it, one of my paternal uncles had
    the family crest researched and it was 4 birds.
    hmmmm...
    
    --angela

    As a contribution to the research, I'd like to chip in a tid-bit of
    info retrieved from dim memories of a more god-fearing youth: the name
    Gelinau may be something to to with the place (a monastery/abbey?)
    where the Gelinau Psalms come from. Of course the place name (if it was
    one) may have been taken from a family name - but whatever, it must
    be as old as that version of the Psalms (however old that is).
    
    b

    wow - that's itneresting! a few questions:
    how is "Gelinau" pronounced?  do you have a reference to these
    psalms? 
    
    -thanks,
    ag

    	Even if I could remember anything about the phonetic alphabet I
    couldn't represent it on this keyboard, but for a native English
    speaker a reasonable attempt at the pronunciation would be the way you
    would pronounce "jelly no", but without the gap. Also, the French tend
    not to stress syllables within a word, so each  syllable should carry
    the same stress. That is assuming it has a French origin, though that
    seems likely. You might try to move the "j" more towards a sort of
    "zh", but I can't get that quite right after 13 years in France. The
    real problem is the vowel sounds. The French seem to be quite fussy
    about them, while English speakers have such a range from Geordie to
    'strine that it is impossible to represent a vowel sound to an
    "English" speaker in a way that all English speakers will pronounce in
    the same way.
    
    	The Michelin Atlas Routier de France doesn't have Gelineau in its
    index, and a check in the "proper names" section of Larousse showed
    nothing except that you are (dictionarily) close to Genghis Khan. ;-)
    Another couple of French reference books gave nothing more useful.
    
    	Dave

    thanks much Dave!
    --angela

<    and a check in the "proper names" section of Larousse showed
<    nothing except that you are (dictionarily) close to Genghis Khan. ;-)

Well, that's refreshing!



        8-o

    Sorry, Angela. I have a retentive memory for some things, but as
    the name of the psalms was all I knew (I didn't even know what a 
    psalm was at the time) that's all I retained. I'll ask one of my
    many brethren/sistern, but they're far-flung.
    
    b

    thanks anyways
    
    --angela