Conference thebay::joyoflex

>    Can anyone account for the way this is pronounced?

Sure.  Say it fifty times fast.  Now tell me why people in N'Yawrk call 
a battery a "bat-tree."
					>>>==>PStJTT

While many Massachusetts place names are English, Faneuil Hall is not.
Peter Faneuil was a French Protestant who immigrated to Boston during 
one of the periodic purges of Hugenots that occured in France 
1650-1715. (Paul Revere's family during the same era: his father was
Apollos Rovoire, or something close to that). Faneuil acquired the
land, and later donated it to the town of Boston, where the major
marketplace was located. The pronounciation of his name probably gave
Peter and his kin fits until they decided there was no use fighting
it. I've mostly heard Fan'l, or Fan-with something in there that could
be a strangled 'y'-l. 

John H.

    In French, it would be pronounced "Fannoy." I usually hear it as
    "Fan-you-will" or contracted to "Fan-you'll." 
    
    	Jon

    "noy" is close, but "nyue" is probably closer.
    
    I don't think it's physically possible for anyone who wasn't born
    French to correctly pronounce the sound represented by the -ieu-
    vowel combination!
    
    --bonnie

>    I don't think it's physically possible for anyone who wasn't born
>    French to correctly pronounce the sound represented by the -ieu-
>    vowel combination!

    Not true, but in any case who mentioned the -ieu- vowel combination?
    We were discussing Fan-eui-l, which is totally different.  Your
    "nyue" is fairly close to "-nieul", but nothing like "-neuil".
    
    The closest I could represent the "correct" pronunciation is
    "Fan-e(r)-ee".  The e(r) sound is like the vowel sound in the word
    "fir", i.e. pronounced without the 'f' and (especially) the 'r'.
    
    Jeff

    You mean I've been spelling Fanieul Hall wrong for seven years and no
    one has even noticed before?????
    
    --bonnie 

    I've also heard it propnounced "Fennel," like the herb.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    I vote for "Fennel." It has a good solid New England ring to it --
    nothing fancified or French to that! 

    --bonnie

    There's an *awful* lot of French in New England, especially once you go
    north of Mass. 
    
    	Jon

    re .10   or west of Wooster  :-)

Re:   How about "fennel".  Nothing French here.



I'm not sure about that.  Isn't fennel a popular spice in french cooking
?

    MLNOIS::HARBIG
                  Fennel or at least the large, white, globular, root
                  is used in salads in most meditteranean countries.
                  It can also be cooked in various ways and has an
                  aniseed-like flavour.I think most of it which is
                  used in Northern Europe is grown under glass in Holland.
                  The Italian word for it "finocchio" is also a common
                  slang term for a homosexual though why I have not
                  been able to ascertain.
                  Now there's a promising area for speculation.
                                      Max
                                       

    In the States, we use mostly the seeds of what I have read (in
    cookbooks) is a native plant. The flowers can be used for tea, also. 
    It tastes a lot like anise because the plants come from closely 
    related species. 
    
    I wouldn't dare speculate on the other meaning.

    --bonnie

    Well, although this is JOYOFLEX, I suppose it wouldn't hurt to
    add that the herb helps contain the appetite, and some people have
    used powdered Fennel as a dietary aid.
    
    To make this appropriate to the conference, note that "fennel" comes
    from the Latin _faeniculum_.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.     

  It certainly contains *my* appetite.  In my humble opinion, fennel would
  gag a maggot and give a jackal the dry heaves.

  JP

Gag a maggot and give a jackal the dry heaves ?  Dear me !




Anyway, isn't fennel the slender seeds looking like caraway that sometimes
sit in a bowl next to the toothpaste-flavor-chalk-texture mints that are
"free" as you leave better restaurants ?

Or is that something else ?

/Eric

    I thought those were anise seed--at least that's what an Indian
    friend told me.  I've seen them only in Indian restaurants, and in
    the house of this friend.
    
    Of course, maybe fennel and anise are so close that it doesn't make
    much difference.  But I wouldn't really know--I thought spices grew
    in little boxes on trees.
    
    	@V@

    Yes, those little seeds to cool your breath are anise seed. A very
    nise seed, in fact. 
    
    re: .19, yes, spices grow in little boxes on trees.  Fennel and
    friends, however, are herbs. Herbs grow in the grass (like mushrooms)
    in those little glass jars with the green lids.  The green lids are so
    the birds don't see them.  Powdered herbs are what happens when the
    gardener doesn't see them, either, and runs over them with the lawn
    mower.  
    
    If the gardener runs over too many of them, he can cause tornados,
    also known as fennel clouds.
    
    --bonnie, cracking up on a Friday afternoon

    If it tastes like licorice, it's aniseed; the seed of the anise
    (Pimpinella anisum). Used in making annisette and anise (pronounced
    an-NEESE'). If you see a liquor bottle containing a clear liquid
    plus a vernacular twig on which are growing white crystals; it's
    anise and the crystals contain opium. 
    
    
    If it tastes like fennel, it's fennel; the seed of the fennel
    (Foeniculum vulgare). The seed are long, thin, beige in color and
    lightly striped. Typically used whole in Italian sausage. They taste
    nothing like licorice.
    
    Now if you want some REAL breath fresheners, try the dried buds of 
    Eugenia aromatica (clove).                           
    
    -Dick
    
    	
    
    

    > If it tastes like licorice, it's aniseed;
    > If it tastes like fennel, it's fennel;
    
    Personally, I'd re-phrase that as follows:
    
    If it tastes like licorice, it's fennel;
    If it tastes like aniseed, it's aniseed;
    
    Jeff

And then there is another herb, fennelgreek.  Same etymology - different 
plant.  I have no idea what it tastes like or is used for, but it is a great 
sounding word.

Larry

    It was an exciting weekend.
    
    I looked them up -- dill, caraway, anise, and fennel are all members of
    the carrot family. So they're not as closely related as I thought, but
    they are related.  (Makes me wonder what carrot seeds taste like.) 
    
    Anise (the rest of the plant, not the seeds) is quite popular in
    parts of the world as a vegetable, the same as fennel. 
    
    Then I tasted them and discovered that this tongue-twisting has burned
    out my tongue.  Anise seeds and fennel seeds both tasted sort of sweet,
    quite pungent, and very similar to licorice, though the anise seed was
    stronger.  Dill tasted dilly. Caraway tasted awful. And I couldn't tell
    them apart by looking.  The dill was rounder and grayer and kind of
    yellow around the edges, while the caraway is definitely yellower and
    pointier, but the fennel and the anise were all but indistinguishable.
    Maybe the anise seeds were a little grayer, and the fennel was a little
    yellower, but it might have been the light. 

    --bonnie

    Re: -.1
    
    Bonnie, you should get the JOYOFLEX Research Award of the Month.
    
    And it was so tastefully done!
    
    
    -bs

    re:.23
    
    Fenugreek is not Greek fennel.
    
    The greek word for fennel is "marathon".  A battle once took place
    in a fennel field.  The rest is history.
    
    Gee, I miss John Ciardi's "Words to you" commentaries on NPR.
            fred

re: .-1

Never said it was - just thought it was a neat sounding word.

Larry

    Here in the States, you can get a fennel flavored toothpaste (Tom's
    Natural Fennel). It's my favorite.
    
    	Jon

    Yes, it's great...nice to run into someone else who likes Tom's.
    
    -Perry
    

    The emblem of Los Reyes Catolicos - Ferdinand and Isabella - was
    a fennel leaf. I was told (by a reliable source) that the symbol
    was chosen because of the match between the initials of the
    monarchs' names and the initials of the words for fennel in their
    respective languages: Aragonese and Castilian.
                                                  
    Just thought I'd mention it.

    re .30:
    
    "Sow Fennel,
    "Sow sorrow."
     
           -- Old herbal rede  
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    re .31:
    
    Speaking of Sows, anyone know what a "swinette" is?
    
    Snik, Boffle, chort.
    
    

    < Note 362.23 by FOREST::ROGERS "Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate" >

    	That's the sign over my office.
    
    	Your personal name brought back memories of high school Italian classes.
    
    -mike alighieri zarlenga

   But what does it mean?

   -- Sam (not a speaker/reader of Italian...)

    Paraphrasing wildly -- 
    
    "Abandon all hope, Ye who enter here."
    
    It's the sign above the entrance of Hell in Dante's "Inferno."  
    
    (The reference to Dante explains why Mr. Zarlenga proudly listed 
    his middle name in his reply - it's Dante's surname.)
    
    					andrew

    Boy, was that a sharp left turn from the topic of this note! :-)
    
    	Jon

    OK, back to fennel. One of my housemates had a cat that liked
    to eat fennel (why, I don't know). Since he (the cat) liked to
    get into mischief as well, and hence had the nickname of "the
    Fiend", we'd occasionally refer to him as "the fennel-phaging
    fiend".
    
    --- jerry

    The only time I've used fennel is to make Italian sausage.  One
    adds fennel and garlic to ground pork.  What's interesting is that,
    to make Polish sausage, one adds only garlic to ground pork.  The
    fennel makes that much difference!
    
    Susan