Conference thebay::joyoflex

     P.S.  That's in note 880.* in CLT::MATH

     Dan

    Webster's Ninth, which is not the best source in the world
    but which happens to be on my desk, says it was coined in 
    1821; the quote is attributed to _Saturday Review_.
    
    --bonnie    

    G'day,
    According to a Readers Digest, _the_ Oracle of trivia, A blue moon
    occurred following a large volcanic eruption which left a fine haze
    in the air that 'coloured' the moon blue. It has to be a large eruption
    - one that fortunately happens once in a blue moon.
    
    ANy use?
    Derek
    

    My understanding of blue moon was that it was any time there were
    two full moons in one calendar month. This happens so rarely that
    you get the expression "once in a blue moon". 
    
    One of my favorite SF short stories is called "Blue Moon" it was
    published in Asimov about three years ago...does anyone recognize
    it and remember the author...it is so funny that I laugh out loud
    each time I read it.
    
    Bonnie

    re:.4
    
    Are you perhaps thinking of "Blued Moon" by Connie Willis? It
    appeared in the Jan 1984 issue of ASIMOV'S.
    
    --- jerry

    re .5 Yes indeed, thankyou :-)
    
    Bonnie

    re: .3
    
    That would fit the date Webster's gives -- Krakatoa blue up somewhere
    around 1890, didn't it?  
    
    --bonnie

    Wasn't there a 50's rock unroll singer that did a sang that goes
    
    	Blue-oo Moooooooooon, I saw you standin' theeeeeeeeeeeere....
    	-----------|---------|---------------------|------------------
           G   E   |  G      |F  G  A   G   F      |     G
        -----------|---------|---------------------|-----------------
           ___     |         |       ___           |
    	---|-------|---------|----|--|---|---------|-----------------
           |   ___ |         | |  | o|   |    |    |
    	--O|.--|---|--O------|-|-O|.----O|----|----|-----O-----------
               |   |         |O|             O|    |
    	------o|---|---------|---------------------|-----------------
    
    
    
    how's my music notation, o.k. ?  I realize I should show quarters
    vs. halves, but this terminal is gassed Lee.
    
    /Eric

>    My understanding of blue moon was that it was any time there were
>    two full moons in one calendar month. This happens so rarely that
>    you get the expression "once in a blue moon". 
    
Even if you grant that it's sorta-not-very-but-kinda rare for that to
happen, what has it got to do with blue? 

					>>>==>PStJTT

    By the way, where is this file ?  I'm in Maynard, my computer says
    it's now 9:31, which is about right.  But the note I just put in
    says
    
    	15:something
    
    at the top.  Is that correct ?  Even if this file is in England
    (where it probably is 15:something), aren't the top time stamps
    on notes supposed to represent the local submittor's time ?
    
    /Eric

    Hmmmm.  maybe that's it :-)

    .3 gives the derivation I've met. John Gribbin, then Physics Editor of
    New Scientist, mentioned it in - I think - Origins (dunno the
    publisher, but there was an OUP paperback in 1981 or 1982), tho' I'm
    not sure he'd have been happy with the word haze (more like dust). He
    was talking about Mt St Helen's, and he mentioned Krakatoa (and
    nuclear exchanges of any size). That sort of thing, occurring once
    in a blue moon, can radically upset the northern hemisphere's food
    production. 
    
    b

Re: .2, .3, .7

Websters: 1821.  Krakatoa: 1887.  "The year without a summer", caused by 
a very dusty eruption: 1816.

The problem with the volcano theory is that atmospheric dust tends to 
cause a reddening of transmitted light by increasing the absorption of 
the shorter-wavelength end of the spectrum.  It is this phenomenon that 
makes red sunsets.  After Krakaroa, sunsets were redder in England for 
nearly three years.  The moon looks yellower or redder under these 
conditions, too; this is why the Harvest Moon is such a pronounced 
golden color.  (The atmosphere has had all summer to pick up dust, which
it can't do as readily during the winter.) 

Two full moons in a month is the only explanation I'd ever heard before 
reading this note.  As a side note, there can never be two full moons in 
February except in leap year, because the lunar month is longer than 28 
days.

- Dick

    re: .13
    
    The moon looked blue right after Mt. St. Helens' erupted.  (I
    lived in Montana, where we got a dusting of ash.) 
    
    I don't know why (and didn't connect it with the 'once in a
    blue moon' phrase!)  but I did see it.
    
    --bonnie

    re:.7
    
    "... Krakatoa blue up..."
    
    Love it!
    
    re:.10
    
    No, the timestamp on notes shows the time local to the conference.
    
    --- jerry

    re: .10, .15
    
    	Right, the time stamp is local to the conference - otherwise
    how would you decide what order notes were entered in.
    
    	Currently it is summer time in the South of France, and your
    moderator is sitting in the afternoon sunshine on a week's holiday,
    and wondering whether he has the energy to get into the swimming
    pool. Those of you in the U.S. will hardly be awake yet, while those
    in Melbourne will be gently shiverring while the snow settles round
    the kangaroos' ears.

    G'day,
    
    Aksherly, (and living in Sydney I should not admit it) Melbourne
    has had better weather than Sydney lately. :-(    Tho the skiing
    is going to be brilliant this year in the snowfields - they have
    25-35cm already and the season opens tomorrow. (Personally _I_ think
    snow should be restricted to Christmas cards - mainly, I suppose,
    because I can't afford to go skiing :-((  ) Now,it has been noted
    that snow has never fallen on the City of Sydney though N Sydney
    did ONCE get snow that lasted for about two minutes.
    
    Once in a blue moon, The Blue mountains get snow and thats only
    about 50 miles from Sydney.
    
    The kangaroos' comments have not been recorded but are believed
    to be in the  best British tradition and along the lines of
    
    Bloody cold, innit! 
    
    Djw

        Although NOTES-11 cared about timestamps (it kept track of the
        next note as being the next chronologically), VAX Notes no longer
        depends on this (it assigns a unique [serial] number to each note,
        and maintains a list of the unseen notes by number). 
        
        Prior to VAX Notes, since the timestamp got applied by the
        writer's copy of NOTES-11 (not by a server local to the
        conference), keeping the timestamps in order was a challenge. 
        
        Tom

    re .8 and the song "Blue Moon" - it is actually a jazz "standard"
    that goes way back (to the '30s or so?).
    
    The initial lyric (your notes are correct) is
    
    	Blue Moon, you saw me standing alone
    
    This version of the song (done by the Diamonds?) is probably most
    famous for its doowhop accompaniment:
    
    	Bomp boppa bomp, babompa bomp bomp
    	Boppa bomp boopa bomp, a danga dang dang
    	A dinga dong ding

    len.
    

       

    
    Blue moon, you saw me standing alone,
    without a dream in my heart,
    without a love of my own.
    
    Blue moon, you knew just what I was there for,
    You heard me saying a prayer for,
    someone I really could care for.

    Can't remember the rest, but give me a break, I'm only 21 so I wasn't
    even around when it was popular !
    
    Paul V

    Then suddenly appeared before me
    The only one my heart has ever known (??)
    Then somebody whispered, "please adore me",
    And when I looked, the moon had turned to gold
             
    len.
    

    I don't know how so many people can think a "Blue Moon" can happen
    only once every 2 or 3 years.  It seems to me that a lunar month
    is 28 days (possibly 29) in which case it will occur 13 times in
    12 months with a few days error.  Thus the "Blue Moon" occurs once
    every year plus or minus a few days.  Please correct me if I'm wrong
    and explain your reason.

    re: .23
    
    The definition is the second FULL moon of a calendar month.  By
    your calculation, there will be at least one month that has the
    same phase twice, but that phase could be one of four phases.
    By this reasoning, a blue moon should occur once every four years 
    or so.  Don't ask me about the 2 -- 3.  (Or is it 2-3 or 2 - 3?)
    Perhaps it's because of the 31 day months that make it more likely
    that two phases will occur in the same month.
    
    Clay

    Re: .24 [Re: .23]
    
        "By your calculation, there will be at least one month that has the
    	same phase twice, but that phase could be one of four phases."

    I don't see where you get this "one month per year with duplicate
    phases."  I thought the calculation was meant to show that there
    would be 13 full moons in a year.  Wouldn't that force there to
    be some month each year with 2 full moons?
    
Lew Lasher

    Actually, it helps to do the right math with the right numbers. The
    lunar cycle is 29.5 days. Actually is 29.46... days, but we'll call it
    29.5. The upshot of this is that there are *not* 13 full moons in a
    year. There are 12 full moons most years, and 13 full moons every ~2.68
    years. During a year with thirteen full moons, one of them is blue, by
    the pigeonhole principle. 
    
    Note that this assumes that the months are all of equal length. In the
    real world, there can never be a blue moon in February, and it is more
    likely that the blue moon will happen in a month with 31 days than 30,
    for the obvious reason that it's easier to stuff a 29.5 day stick in a
    31-day sack than a 30-day sack. 
    
    	Jon

    In his magnificent youth, Elvis Presley did a version of "Blue Moon"
    which I often play on June 16:
    
    "Bloom... You saw me standing alone..."
    
    He also covered "Blue Moon of Kentucky".  I assume that song's title
    was a moonshine-inspired jumble of "blue moon" and "blue grass". 
    
    Ray

>                 <<< VISA::USER:[NOTES$LIBRARY]JOYOFLEX.NOTE;1 >>>
>                               -< The Joy of Lex >-
> ================================================================================
> Note 528.0*           Mommy, where do blue moons come from?           27 replies
> POOL::HALLYB "Lookit all the happy creatures dancin" 11 lines   6-JUN-1988 23:48
[...]                                                             ^^^^^^^^^^
> By that definition you
> can expect a blue moon roughly once every 2.5 years.
[...]
        
        And flipping through my calendar for 1990 (do it, and
        watch how the day of the full moon changes from month to
        month) shows that there will be a blue moon on New Year's
        Eve.
        
        Make your party plans accordingly! :-)
        
        Dan

    Let's think about the "February can't have a blue moon" theory.
    Every four years February gets one extra day (29) so it still isn't
    enough.  Every four hundred years February loses a day (27) unless
    it is also one of every two thousand years, in which case February
    will have 30 days.  I believe something also happens on multiples
    of 10,000 years, but I forget what it is.  I'm not saying it will
    happen, but theoritically you CAN have a "blue moon" in February.
    
    The Wizard

re:  .-1

> Every four hundred years February loses a day (27)
I think every 400 years (e.g. 1600 A.D., 2000 A.D.) is NOT a leap year, so
February is its normal, 28-day length.

As far as your 2,000-year and 10,000-year events are concerned, I think they
qualify as happening only once in a blue moon.

Jon

Re .29,.30

The rule is:

February has 28 days except 

   In a year divisible by four February has 29 days except

        In a year divisible by 100 February has only 28 days except

             In a year divisible by 400 February does have 29 days.

There are no other exceptions.

So 1900, 2100, 2200 are not leap years, but
2000 will be, and so will 2400, as long as the current calendar rules
are in effect.  1600 occured before these rules were adopted.

This has been discussed an infinite number of times on the e-net.

Dave C.

    For the definitive leap year answer see Stan's answer in 
    HACKERS_V1 216.13

    Ah, but every 2000 years some fool dictator changes the calendar
    and then *anything* can happen.
    
    February used to have 30 days before the Romans got to it.

    Very illuminating.
             
    I had thought there was a larger time span between Blue Moons, but
    I got it from a not-so-scientific story.  When I was little my parents
    occasionally bought me a "fun" book, the ones with the games & riddles
    & puzzles & stories & jokes & such.   In one of those books was
    a story about such an event, a rememberance by an elderly lady about
    a blue moon which occured when she was a young girl.  
    
    I mention this soley to maybe trigger a childhood memory out there
    somewhere, a nice little story read ONCE IN A BLUE MOON.
                                         
    As in "Once in a blue moon," said old Mrs. O'Malley.
    
    							Don

    And I always thought a blue moon was what you see when a Smurf pulls
    down his pants!
    
    Sorry, I read through this whole topic looking for that one; I couldn't
    resist!
    
    Allison